[resovia]

 

[Armaegis]

Wow, that's a lot of toys all in one spot...

[resovia]

Hi Everybody,
I finally have some some time to write about my experience choosing another DAC that will be used in my living room system.

I did similar comparison 5 years ago when I picked Bel Canto 2.5 out of 5 other DACs.

DACs are:
Bel Canto 2.5 -(BC)- currently own.
nuPrime DAC 10 -(nP)
Schiit Yggdrasil - (SY)
Benchmark DAC2 HGC - (BDAC2)


I started with nP DAC. I was immediately impress with sound quality, but I was curious about some other more expensive dacs, as I was willing to spent more if sound quality is significantly better.
I will describe my observations running these dacs directly to my amps and using preamp.

Direct to amp connection:
There are easy to spot differences between BC, nP and BDAC2; SY doesn't have volume feature.
Soundstage:
nP, BC - very 3D, holographic, huge. BC stage is moved back in relation to nP. With nP you sit in first row, with BC you are in 5 row. BC is better match for my dedicated sound room, it makes the whole room longer because the soundstage is moved back.
BDAC2 projects flatter soundstage.

Details/Resolution:
All the same, but BDAC2 has more emphasis on the midrange which makes it sound more detailed. This might be good for people with darker sounding amps/speakers. For my tube amps BDAC2 was just too much of the good thing, but it was better match with nuPrime amp.

Musicality:
nP wins here, I think good quality preamp section contributes to very organic sound. I would put BC and BDAC3 equal to each other and put them slightly below nP dac.

Bottom line for direct connection:
All 3 dac are excellent, these differences can only be spot when you compare them next to each other. I would be very happy with any of them, but for my living room nP dac is definitely best pick. Huge, 3D wall of sound, musical and best volume control out of all 3. For my dedicated room I slightly prefer BC, "makes" my room bigger and it is v. good match (darker sounding) with my tube amps.

Now comparison using preamp:
Things are getting less interesting when running those DACs through the preamp. The differences are much harder (and I mean it) to spot even though I can change playing dac with the flip of the button on my remote.

Soundstage:
To me BC = nP = BDAC2, all 3 now project the same soundstage, much bigger, more sophisticated, sound is fuller. SY has bit narrower soundstage, maybe by 5%, it is hard to realize that, you need to play the same part of the song several times.

Details/resolution:
Improved, I think due to dacs sending all the bits of data at the max volume settings. Again I don't find any differences between them.

Musicality:
Preamp makes them kick ass, it is hard to stop listening to the music. the bass notes hang in the air forever, drums are in your room, music sounds like you are listening to the live performance.

Bottom line for preamp connection:
Very simple if you want to improve your dac try preamp before spending money on some other accessories (hint: cables). The sound differences are much harder to spot, you really need to start looking for them and spend hours to find them. All dacs perform beautifully and I cannot imaging people would be unhappy with any of these dacs.
My final selection is nuPrime dac, it is the best combination of performance, features and price. It sounds the best connected directly to my amp to the point where I don't care to add preamp, at least for a while.

Random observations when using preamp(if there is any way to quantify 1~5%), characteristics you really need to dedicate time and look for :
SY sound is less fuller then other dacs, very minimal, but noticeable if you look for it.
SY hard to describe, but it has this very slight metallic "after taste" with some instruments, especially with piano.
Best piano - BDAC2
Best guitar - nP
Best female voice - BDAC2
Darkest sounding - BC
Best soundstage - BC
Best for my tube amp - BC
Best for ss amp - hard to tell.
nuPrime - HT bypass not as good as BC and BDAC2
Best build-in volume - nuPrime
It costs me $250 to send Schiit dac back.

OK, that is it, I hope someone will find this useful.

 
 

[rajacat]

What is  the rest of your gear, esp. speakers? System synergy is important.

[resovia]

Hi Rajacat,

My equipment:

Speakers:
KEF XQ40 and XQ20

Amps:
Rogue M 180 and nuPrime ST 10 also have several emotiva amps I used for my HT

Pre:
Emotiva XPS-1 second gen.

DACs:
Bel Canto 2.5

Sub:
Rythmik F12G

Cables:
xlr - Mogami
PC - Triode Wire Lab and Transparent Ref. MM 2
USB - Generic
Speaker - Transparent Plus and Sonic Wave

Source:
Win 7/10 laptops running JR

Dedicated room 15 W X 19 L X 8 H
Living room 15 W X 35 L X 8H

[rustydoglim]

For those who have not read this article, this review validated the points made in this article:
http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/guides/what-is-high-end-dac.html

DAC chips have gotten so advance that there is little room left for improvement by simply replacing one DAC chips with a newer model.
Preamp, grounding, and power supplies (AC adapter, onboard DC converters, capacitor bank etc) have become even more dominant than DAC chip.

As we will soon demonstrated with Omnia, there isn't much improvement left on the system (Computer -> DAC -> Preamp -> Amp) because   engineers are getting good at optimising the performance at component level.  So Omnia did a key architecture change in managing and sampling of music data that goes into the DAC.

[Freo-1]

Overall, DAC's have indeed improved as technology moves forward.  Having said that, differences do remain.  The Benchmark DAC2 series is among the very best sounding DAC''s available at any price. They are a proven design, with minor design changes/upgrades over time.  I've compared a number of other higher end setups, and Benchmark DAC2 is quite a bit better. 

Included a link to the application notes that explain the design concepts of the DAC2.  Notice the technical specs are among the very best available for any DACs.  Also find it interesting that the DAC2 has better noise performance with a switching power supply, which in the past has gone against audiophile standard dogma.

The DAC2 has convinced me that the source is perhaps the  single most important to getting good sound.  Before one spends a lot of cash upgrading amps/speakers, an audition of a product such as a Benchmark DAC2 is highly recommended.


https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes

[rustydoglim]

Freo-1, I am not offended by your post and users can make their decision. I am sure some will prefer DAC2 over DAC-9 or vice versa.  I just want to remind people that it is the etiquette of audiocircle not to promote another brand's product in a manufacturer's circle. I know  some people forget that a manufacture paid to have a circle for marketing and customer communication and you are probably a NuPrime customer too.

[Freo-1]

Freo-1, I am not offended by your post and users can make their decision. I am sure some will prefer DAC2 over DAC-9 or vice versa.  I just want to remind people that it is the etiquette of audiocircle not to promote another brand's product in a manufacturer's circle. I know  some people forget that a manufacture paid to have a circle for marketing and customer communication and you are probably a NuPrime customer too.

Hey, you are right about that.  I'm sorry.

The larger point I was trying to make (which I should have made more concise) was that DAC's have advanced remarkably in the recent past. There are numerous DAC's that provide outstanding performance.  Changing to a superior DAC often can make a larger improvement than changing out an amp, for example.

And, yes, I've been a NuPrime user in the past, and have enjoyed the sound.   

[rustydoglim]

Even with DAC, we are facing diminishing return. You should check out the Omnia when it is available in January.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146441.0

[Armaegis]

Random observations when using preamp(if there is any way to quantify 1~5%), characteristics you really need to dedicate time and look for :
SY sound is less fuller then other dacs, very minimal, but noticeable if you look for it.
SY hard to describe, but it has this very slight metallic "after taste" with some instruments, especially with piano.
Best piano - BDAC2
Best guitar - nP
Best female voice - BDAC2
Darkest sounding - BC
Best soundstage - BC
Best for my tube amp - BC
Best for ss amp - hard to tell.
nuPrime - HT bypass not as good as BC and BDAC2
Best build-in volume - nuPrime
It costs me $250 to send Schiit dac back.

OK, that is it, I hope someone will find this useful.

Fascinating impressions here. I'm surprised the Yggdrasil went back; it's the only dac I've heard in your group there but I was very very impressed by the sound (though not such a fan of the huge size).