AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: rustydoglim on 14 Jun 2016, 08:52 pm
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Someone asked about this at T.H.E. Show and we quickly came out with this chassis and I think we took the idea one step further to include uDSD integrated (optional).
You can install Plex media server on the latest $39 Raspberry Pi and turn it into a "high-end" product with clean power supply, 32/384k DAC with native DSD, WiFi and RJ45 network for wireless and wired audio streaming, internal and external hard disks.
I don't know about the retail price, but my guess is that it would range from $299 to $449 depending on options. May be less, may be more, it is only an estimate. In any case, it will be reasonable and compared to what others are charging in the 4 figure price range using entry level PC motherboard, this is cheap.
The chassis and front panel is similar to IDA-8.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144956)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144957)
If there is enough of you who want this, we will make it.
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Can someone please post this on head-fi.org or www.computeraudiophile.com ?
They don't like (non advertising) manufacturer to post things.
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I like the idea. So the intention is to include everything except the Pi and the optional uDSD board?
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I was just talking with someone about something like this.
There are people who DIY cheaply on their own, and people who like ready made, with a few who DIY for top quality regardless of price. If you can especially appeal to those who DIY with your quality/price ratio -- and that seems to be one of your specialties -- then I think you'll have an enthusiastic base for encouraging those who've never done anything beyond plugging in a cable. Raspberry Pi has made it possible to do this without much too much more effort on the customer's part than that.
I would definitely be interested.
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Hello
I use the Pi to run my LMS server but also have OSMC on it to watch movies via HDMI. Music is stored on a Network drive. The front end is the Squeezebox connected wirelessly with an SPDIF out to my DAC
What I am missing is a quality power supply and a Spdif/Optical out to my DAC. I have control via my phone. With this I can do away with the SB touch.
My 2 cents.
Arun
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Wanted to add, definitely happy to see a product like this being thought of and in this price range from a credible manufacturer.
Rgds
Arun
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Jason - you definitely took what we discussed and pushed it a few steps. I certainly didn't think about mounting a uDSD but that really adds a lot of flexibility, especially those running LMS or RuneAudio providing a nice all in one solution.
I know we talked about mounting the Pi at the back of the case but looking at your pictures, what about rotating the Pi 90 degrees so that the ports are exposed internally? That would allow easy access to all of the usb ports. I tried drawing the connections for each of the various components.
Sort of like:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144967)
For external connections could the rear modified to remove the single USB output and add a couple of screws hole for for an RJ45 and UsB panel connectors like below:
(http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1rCM.JFXXXXXGXXXXq6xXFXXX7/200234312/HTB1rCM.JFXXXXXGXXXXq6xXFXXX7.jpg)
(http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/7/e/dual-usb-2-0-a-type-female-panel-mount-to-2-usb-a-male-data-charger-cable-25cm-f95fedaccec1c71f37f2953675ae84a7.jpg)
In my setup i would personally go with a uDSDless configuration as i would hook the USB output to one of my NuPrime DACs. would it be possible to replace the volume control with the power/input button on the DAC9/IDA-8 for versions without the uDSD? that way it could be hooked up to something like in the picture below to power it on or off:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0262/4243/products/817c98b57253e8ac3d58cc9b205a0064_grande_clipped_rev_2_d4d8cacd-64bb-4255-9ac1-b0f56eaad9ae.png?v=1446920700)
I'll make sure to make a post on the Roon forums where i would guess there would be several interested posters and i'm definitely in for a couple.
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Can someone please post this on head-fi.org or www.computeraudiophile.com ?
They don't like (non advertising) manufacturer to post things.
Done!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/811335/nuprime-raspberry-pi-server-and-dac-with-volume-control
I'll wait a day or two before linking back here.
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So for someone who's never worked with Raspberry Pi before, can I get the condensed version of how this works?
I'm assuming that we hook up whatever file sources we have, then access it remotely through a smartphone app or computer browser?
Would I be able to add/modify files on the internal hard drive without removing it first?
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Im certainly not an expert but i'll try and give you a condensed version. For reference im using a raspberry pi as a Roon Endpoint running Roon Bridge to output to my IDA-8 and am just smart enough to following directions on installation.
The RaspberryPi is essentially a small pc that runs linux. There are quite a few people who have developed server/player software for the Pi. The Pi would essentially handle the network streaming and sending the signal to the uDSD in that configuration, or via USB output without.
Depending on what you are using you would control via browser or app, I guess guess that HDMI output to a monitor, keyboard would also be possible but can really answer that as Roon Bridge doesn't have a control interface.
With the proper setup there isn't any reason why you wouldn't be able to create a network share to drag and drop files to the drive.
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Interested!
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I will try to answer various questions here. First of all, we are expert in hardware but not software. So we need help from the community.
Hardware - we will collect all your requirements here, sort them out and then present an updated configuration. We might end up with two types of pricing. A fully configured (with Raspberry Pi board, SD card with OS, Plex or some other media server and DAC) product for standard distribution. The price will go up once it has to go through the distribution channels. But we can also make the parts (mainly the case and power supply, perhaps DAC board) available for much lower price for order online. This will be fair. Non DIY person will be ok to pay $200 to $300 extra to have everything nicely put together with usage guides.
I started to realise that we can be very competitive. The STA-9 for example, such a high-end amp, is roughly 2X the price of a similarly configured DIY amp. We are able to offer Raspberry Pi chassis and parts because NuPrime has a factory.
Software - Plex is very interesting because it is a media server and client software that runs on everything. I am just starting to explore this.
For the non technical people, you can do a lot of things with Raspberry Pi:
1. It can be easily setup (out of the box from the factory) as a media server for your music and video. You can run Plex app on all your devices. See https://plex.tv
2. It can also be used for other purpose because ultimately it is a linux computer.
This platform is complementary to all our "high-end" products. You still need a very good DAC and power amp. Or a portable server and player such as Omnia.
Customers have a choice and not lock in to some proprietary and outdated platform.
Instead of Raspberry Pi board, we can also consider miniPC board.
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Good ideas here -- Jason, good for you for soliciting input.
I use a HifiBerry Digi+ (a small board that plugs right into the top of the Pi) that extracts the digital signal (is2 bus) and feeds a S/PDIF jack that I use to feed a DAC. I think it's fair to say that for the Pi most think this approach is superior to using the USB signal -- I've not compared them.
For me (and at least one other above) it would be nice (probably even necessary) to retain that option -- that is, to have a S/PDIF connector on the back panel.
As an aside, I'm using the Pi to serve audio, not video, and liking the Moode Audio player very much -- lots of attention from the developer. Perhaps worth checking out if your needs are similar.
http://moodeaudio.org/
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Might want to take a look at the WD (western digital) PiDrive that was announce not too long ago. It has a very unique Pi capacity. 314GB :lol: I think it is also available in 1TB. One of the most wonderful thing is probably the fact that it is designed to run significantly less power.
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Yes, would be interested in a turn-key server including everything needed to mindlessly/simply with high stability Linix based processing, linear power supply, store 2TB in ALAC, using USB output, controlled via a smartphone/tablet.
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I guess it makes good marketing sense to include a DAC, but I (and many other audiophiles) already have a DAC, so I personally would prefer to see it without an internal DAC. I like the idea of an internal HD or SSD (even better!).
While your engineers are building this, I hope they experiment with different power supplies. I've read that a better PS can really make a difference in SQ. Perhaps, in the end, a choice of good, better, and OMG, this is amazing! power supplies could be offered at different price points.
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While options are fantastic, it also greatly adds to the complexity and resources required to build/maintain a product and can kill the project before it even hits the shelves. "Too many things for too few people" as they say. Unless they veer towards a full-on modular system, I would rather see one single product developed.
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Excellent idea. I posted a link at the Computer Asylum asking for positive input.
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While options are fantastic, it also greatly adds to the complexity and resources required to build/maintain a product and can kill the project before it even hits the shelves. "Too many things for too few people" as they say. Unless they veer towards a full-on modular system, I would rather see one single product developed.
Yes, we have to start somewhere. So far, this is the requirement:
1. Basic platform - a case with external power supply. Power filter board is internal so external switching or linear power supply can be used.
The case has mounting screws for Pi board, hard disk and uDSD DAC (asynchronous USB DAC with coaxial, line out and headphone outputs). The bundled price of uDSD board will be much cheaper than a retail product.
2. A complexly configured system with Plex installed.
"agdev01" will be the first beta customer since I promise to get him a set at THE Show. Obviously we will test the whole setup at the factory before delivering to anyone.
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Is it mostly a space-saving issue to go with an external power supply? All other NuPrime products have internal supplies and it'd be a shame to break that aesthetic.
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I guess it makes good marketing sense to include a DAC, but I (and many other audiophiles) already have a DAC, so I personally would prefer to see it without an internal DAC. I like the idea of an internal HD or SSD (even better!).
While your engineers are building this, I hope they experiment with different power supplies. I've read that a better PS can really make a difference in SQ. Perhaps, in the end, a choice of good, better, and OMG, this is amazing! power supplies could be offered at different price points.
+1
I'd prefer it without a DAC to keep the price down. I would rather spend the money on the latest DAC or one that might have a different presentation. Also, it's interesting to rotate DACs. Alternatively you could bypass the internal DAC, like my Bolder SB3 or simply offer it as an option.
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There's an economy of scale that kicks in though guys. Say all we want is the coax output. While they *could* design and set up assembly for a whole separate board that does only that, those two steps have a lot of investment cost involved. The uDSD board already does what we want plus more; yes you pay a little extra for feature that you *might* not use (but lots of people probably will), but now you bypass the additional design/setup/assembly/parts/storage costs which might conceivably make the overall cost lower than creating a new standalone board.
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I'm onboard with this idea.
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Is it mostly a space-saving issue to go with an external power supply? All other NuPrime products have internal supplies and it'd be a shame to break that aesthetic.
Space saving - allow for other optional boards. Power supply is an ugly black thing and can be placed on the floor with other power strips so it won't break the aesthetic.
Flexibility - linear or switching, or DIY. DC input into the box.
Performance - extra power filter board and placing power supply outside of the case reduce noise.
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Though I'm probably in the minority, one of my favourite products back in the Nuforce days was the LPS power supply that I used to feed both my Icon2 and HDP simultaneously. I think if NuPrime ever plans for other DC powered devices in the future, a well designed power supply in the same form factor to feed multiple components would be nice. Depends if there's a market for that though.
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The thing i really like about this is that it offers so much flexibility, outside of just audio. When Silicon Dust releases their HDHomeRun DVR on Plex i could use ones of these boxes to replace my loud noisy HTPC in the livingroom.
Instead of Raspberry Pi board, we can also consider miniPC board.
Since you posted this thread i have been doing some random searching to see if i could find any alternative boards that might offer an alternative to the Pi. I am going to buy a https://www.solid-run.com/product/hummingboard-carrier-pro/ (https://www.solid-run.com/product/hummingboard-carrier-pro/) It should match the dimensions of the original PI as well as it has an mSata connection that can connect to the HDD and a USB header that could send a singal to a uDSD board or the like. Granted its more expensive than the Pi but offers all connection options out of the box.
Is it mostly a space-saving issue to go with an external power supply? All other NuPrime products have internal supplies and it'd be a shame to break that aesthetic.
One reason why i like the external supply is the flexibility for the DIY version as configurations and thus power needs can vary so greatly.
[/quote]I'd prefer it without a DAC to keep the price down. I would rather spend the money on the latest DAC or one that might have a different presentation. Also, it's interesting to rotate DACs. Alternatively you could bypass the internal DAC, like my Bolder SB3 or simply offer it as an option.[/quote]
my suggestion for the retail model a version with and without DAC would be good so users with a IDA-8/16 DAC-9/10 could buy the DAC less model and those without have an option for analog out.
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I too have interest in this product. I would also prefer it without a DAC, they are changing way to fast to be stuck with just one and I like the idea of having more room for other boards.
I also think the power supply should be separate so people can choose the one they want or use the walwart that comes with it if providing one is in the plan.
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Another good digital player software option to consider is RuneAudio, been playing/using this for a while now.
http://www.runeaudio.com/
A proactive developer, a good interface and could give a few other platform options as well as Pi.
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Yes, we have to start somewhere. So far, this is the requirement:
1. Basic platform - a case with external power supply. Power filter board is internal so external switching or linear power supply can be used.
The case has mounting screws for Pi board, hard disk and uDSD DAC (asynchronous USB DAC with coaxial, line out and headphone outputs). The bundled price of uDSD board will be much cheaper than a retail product.
2. A complexly configured system with Plex installed.
Sounds like a great couple of options here !
If NuPrime were to offer without DAC and Powersupply , what would they would really be supplying ...... a case .... no real value add here :-(
The internal disk is a good option, but would probably find that larger collections would be from network storage.
A mini-PC board introduces all the Microsoft complications/overhead and well as complicates the user interface platform (iPad / iPhone) that is delivered through solutions such as RuneAudio etc.
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Hurry up already! Aurelic has released the $1900 USD Altair (server/DAC/pre).
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More than the rush to release this device, there needs to be extra care in order to make the entire GUI interface reliable. I keep reading about all the glitches that those who run Aurelic wireless bridges face...while the sound might be good, there comes a time when frustrations seem to outweigh the benefits. IE: all those missing files and disappearing folders, these sort of things in themselves might kill off great hardware. Regardless, software needs to be robust.
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If NuPrime were to offer without DAC and Powersupply , what would they would really be supplying ...... a case .... no real value add here
Our motivations are:
1. Customer service - users want to have a consistent look so paying extra $100 to $150 for a nice enclosure with connectors is a good value. Think about the time and expense to put together a DIY case and most people would rather just buy a nice case.
2. This is actually the start of our initiative to offer configurable products for customers.
Within the chassis, we have to provide a metal bracket with stand to mount the Pi board. Therefore this metal platform can be used to mount any other board.
The back panel connector holes are cut by CNC machine, therefore it is possible to create panel for mini PC board, Android board, other whatever popular board that users request.
We are working on 20 samples to be available in July. I will provide update later next week.
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More than the rush to release this device, there needs to be extra care in order to make the entire GUI interface reliable. I keep reading about all the glitches that those who run Aurelic wireless bridges face...while the sound might be good, there comes a time when frustrations seem to outweigh the benefits. IE: all those missing files and disappearing folders, these sort of things in themselves might kill off great hardware. Regardless, software needs to be robust.
+1
I gave up on Squeeze Box because of routine glitches. Too bad, great design concept.
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I've got a Pi2 and can't seem to get it to deliver high res music via USB without glitches.
It runs Kodi fine and plays video without issue.
I'd love some input as it shows promise.
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I've got a Pi2 and can't seem to get it to deliver high res music via USB without glitches.
It runs Kodi fine and plays video without issue.
I'd love some input as it shows promise.
While there are many variables, this sort of thing is what people are afraid off in hardware. No OS is necessarily perfect but in terms of a music player, it needs to be NASA reliable or else it can simply make the hardware into just another has been audiobrick. How many of these type of equipment people own?
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I've got a Pi2 and can't seem to get it to deliver high res music via USB without glitches.
Direct USB connection to the RPi can give variable results. I have a DAC that plays 384k and 2xDSD from an RPi2 with no problems (and sounds pretty good too). Others have been glitchy.
My take therefore is that allowing direct access to the RPi USB ports on a commercial device is asking for a support headache.
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R&D has the Pi 2 tested with uDSD (probably mDSD too). So that would be another reason to buy our optional USB DAC board.
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Here's the retail pricing:
NuPrime RasPi chassis (with back panel and internal mounting brackets) $229
uDSD board (volume control knob at the front panel) $99
Power supply + filter board $59
Ok? If a few of you say that you are going to buy at least the chassis and power supply, we will make 20 of them as a start.
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I'm in for two cases + power filter. For those without a udsd will it have the sta9 front, or just the knob with no control?
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Jason,
Thank you. I'll take one chassis plus power supply/filter board. I may add the uDSD board, but I must read up on it first. It's been many months since I read about it.
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I'm in for a chassis and a power supply/board
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I will be Using a Digi+ as I have an External DAC. Will there Be enough room for that? I would not mind using a Coax Jumper from the Digi+ to the Case. Mounted Coax. A Nice case and a Proper Power Supply at a reasonable price is really filling a gap.
By the way I am new to this Forum. This was mentioned at Headfi and as I am Building an R PI player this weekend. I am very impressed Nuprime took an idea from a Customer and ran With it. If a Digi+ board as I am describing will work. Sign me Up. Nuprime was not exactly On My radar before but they are now.
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I'm interested but need to do some more research.
For example, does the PS power the drive/other directly or does the RPi do it?
If I purchase the case+PS, do i install the standard RPi linux or is there nuprime software too?
Basically, what do i need to get up and running? (I wouldn't need details, just a high level checklist)
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Note that we only provide the hardware, there is no custom Nuprime software at this point. Don't come to us for support of Pi usage or any linux problem, even when we preconfigure everything for you. The Pi community is very large and I think if you are just using it for standard applications (such as Plex media server for streaming, torrent download etc), you can get help from other users easily.
If you don't use any internal DAC, we can simply mount the NuPrime STA-9 front panel. Later if you decide to add a DAC, you can then order a replacement front panel for cheap.
We will add the optical output port for situation such as the Dig+
There are several mounting U plates that come with the case, so you can drill you own holes if you have different DAC boards.
In the future, we plan to support Pine64 board.
For power supply, the power filter board provides 5V supply to Pi, which then supplies the USB DAC and hard disk inside. I think we can provide more than one 5V supplies from the power filter board.
We can offer a version with everything configured (Pi, OS, UI and Plex installed). So all you have to do is plug in the keyboard and mouse. We can even install VNC so that you can just remote control without using keyboard and mouse.
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Hm. I think I'm confused. I was expecting this to be pretty much plug and play, but it doesn't appear to be so if I read your post correctly.
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The RPi is a tremendous value and all the other bits are available elsewhere for less. The whole idea just seems so wrong headed to me. Sorry to be so blunt but Nuprime is not adding any value here.
Larry
PS I've been running an RPi3 w/MoOde Audio for a bit and find it the most transparent renderer I've had. That is to me where the value lies.
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The RPi is a tremendous value and all the other bits are available elsewhere for less. The whole idea just seems so wrong headed to me. Sorry to be so blunt but Nuprime is not adding any value here.
Larry
I have been playing with raspberry for years
- using i2s dac mounted on it (eg IQaudIO piDac)
- using hifiberry digi+ coaxial out into an external dac
- using usb out into an external dac
So i think I know that pros and cons of each options, also following on various forums what expert DIYers built using raspberry.
I believe the nice case + power filter offer is indeed a great value.
From a software perspective, my humble opinion is that you should look into something that can be driven WITHOUT keyboard/mouse. If you make it similar to a computer to be used.....I would use the computer of my choice.
For audio reproduction, IMO, the best headless "software" options available are (in this order) MoodeAudio, RuneAudio, Volumio.
As a final note, according to a few people who experimented with , a raspberry with an i2s connection to an external dac would represent one of the best digital source available.
To my knowledge, the only board that "exports" the i2s signal (including the clock signals) is the hifiberry Dac+ Pro
https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205711451-DAC-Pro-connect-external-I2S-DACs
Just wanted to mention as something for you to think of.
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In any case I would be very interested to be in the initial 20 batch, but I would like to ask some clarification:
1) NuPrime RasPi chassis (with back panel and internal mounting brackets) $229
To clarify: my understanding is the raspberry itself is not included, Correct?
2) uDSD board (volume control knob at the front panel) $99
To clarify: this would provide both rca analog out and coaxial digital out (same as uDSD portable dac). Correct?
3) Power supply + filter board $59
Not sure if I understood properly about this.
Would the input voltage be the usual 5V needed by the raspberry?
How would this compare to the iFi iPower? Would it have the same level of flexibility? (works in any country in the world, interchangeable wall plugs)
Many thanks
Francesco
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Hm. I think I'm confused. I was expecting this to be pretty much plug and play, but it doesn't appear to be so if I read your post correctly.
+1
I need something very simple and bulletproof, not a DIY project.
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For those just catching up, please read the first few posts. We are doing this for NuPrime CUSTOMERS who want to have consistent NuPrime chassis for all the components. Therefore if you are just a DIY person looking at this for a Raspberry Pi solution, you have come to the wrong place. There are cheaper chassis and kits out there. The NuPrime all aluminium case is NOT CHEAP to make.
If you are looking for a bullet proof non DIY solution, this is not for you. We can install a "read to go" box where all you have to do is connect the power. But if you are not familiar with configuring your own media server and connecting it to your home network etc, this is not for you. There is a reason some vendors sell a media server (effectively similar hardware with software in different skin) for 10X the price so that all the support cost are built-in.
1) NuPrime RasPi chassis (with back panel and internal mounting brackets) $229
To clarify: my understanding is the raspberry itself is not included, Correct?
Correct. Some people already have their RasPi board and just want a better power supply and chassis. You can get RasPi kit for $39 on Amazon.com
Pine64 or other more powerful board can also be alternate solution. Some people might want to consider Intel based mini PC board or PC stick.
2) uDSD board (volume control knob at the front panel) $99
To clarify: this would provide both rca analog out and coaxial digital out (same as uDSD portable dac). Correct?
Yes. This is a bundled price.
3) Power supply + filter board $59
Not sure if I understood properly about this.
Would the input voltage be the usual 5V needed by the raspberry?
How would this compare to the iFi iPower? Would it have the same level of flexibility? (works in any country in the world, interchangeable wall plugs)
The Raspberry Pi board needs 5V supply. It will be suitable for worldwide AC.
Our value add:
1. Compatible NuPrime chassis (for you to mount hard disk and DAC inside) so that for less than $500 you have a media server with a few terabytes of storage and a decent DAC all built into one box.
2. Clean power supply
Other similarly configured media server probably sells for > $2000
This is pretty much a good entry level all in one media server + DAC + headphone amp.
But then, for about $1295, you can get the state of the art NuPrime Omnia device coming out in Q4.
They could co-exist in the home. We probably should start a separate topics on media server and streaming strategy.
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I would like to get the PSU, possibly the chassis. Just not sure, but definitely the PSU. A good linear, affordable, PSU for the RPi is in need.
Disclaimer, I work with bigro, if we can combine shipping to save money that'd be great for all involved.
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As a point of comparison here guys, Bryston is very soon releasing their own Pi-box: http://bash.codes/client/bryston/testing/products/digital_audio/BDP-Pi.html
It's a full piece of gear all fully configured, but it'll cost you $1295. That is a rather substantial price bump over NuPrime's offering.
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As a point of comparison here guys, Bryston is very soon releasing their own Pi-box: http://bash.codes/client/bryston/testing/products/digital_audio/BDP-Pi.html
It's a full piece of gear all fully configured, but it'll cost you $1295. That is a rather substantial price bump over NuPrime's offering.
you can buy a laptop for $200,nice one mate... :lol:
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Here's the retail pricing:
NuPrime RasPi chassis (with back panel and internal mounting brackets) $229
uDSD board (volume control knob at the front panel) $99
Power supply + filter board $59
Ok? If a few of you say that you are going to buy at least the chassis and power supply, we will make 20 of them as a start.
Hi, I am also interested in chasis+uDSD board+power board.
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"We are doing this for NuPrime CUSTOMERS who want to have consistent NuPrime chassis for all the components. Therefore if you are just a DIY person looking at this for a Raspberry Pi solution, you have come to the wrong place. There are cheaper chassis and kits out there. The NuPrime all aluminium case is NOT CHEAP to make."
So If I am reading this right. You must Be an Existing Nuprime Customer to even be part of this? If that's is the Case Then That is disappointing.
Sure there are Cheaper Enclosure and Power supplies out there, The issue with those cheaper Enclosures, at least the ones I have found is They Are Cheap. They are an eyesore, Wires come off the back and sides a Hole for the GPIO connectors and the microsd etc. Cheap power supplies are bad for audio to begin so its a needed upgrade for the R PI. This Nu prime Option seems like the perfect solution for what seems to be a big Gap for what seems to be the Beginning of what could be
It seems the Search Continues for Now.
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So If I am reading this right. You must Be an Existing Nuprime Customer to even be part of this? If that's is the Case Then That is disappointing. ..... It seems the Search Continues for Now.
I think you might be reading it wrong. The way I read it is that it was conceived for existing NuPrime owners that would appreciate the consistent look and nicer enclosure and power supply and would be willing to pay the extra premium over lesser DIY offerings.
I'd be surprised if it wasn't available to anyone who wishes to buy it.
Steve
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:duh:
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:duh:
I feel your pain.........
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Off course our chassis will be available to anyone. I think we have a lot of good inputs to proceed with a small production.
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Thinking, thinking :scratch:.
I see the case has a headphone (6.5mm) out. Is there room left for a decent HP amp?
How would this connect?
What's the cut off date for orders?
Regards, Matt Walker (AUS)
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Thinking, thinking :scratch:.
I see the case has a headphone (6.5mm) out. Is there room left for a decent HP amp?
How "decent" are you talking about? If they've got the uDSD board in there, that has a built-in amp which will power most cans until you start getting into the heavies like planars or the higher end Senneiser/Beyerdynamic/AKG etc.
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DAC-9 owner here. There are lots of cool ideas floating around. However, I think this has to be streamlined and simple for it to be viable and compelling to a broad audience. I really don't think NuPrime's customer base is made up of DIY tinkerers, but rather of "mainstream" audiophiles who want great value equipment.
Here's where I am:
I love my DAC-9, but wish it had streaming capability built in. I would LOVE to be able to add a simple wifi streamer in an STA-9 chassis with USB output that could sit right on top of my DAC-9. It should have either an internal linear power supply or an external power supply, allowing customers to use their own LPS via DC input. It has to be able to stream Tidal, and needs either AirPlay or RoonReady so that my wife and I can use streaming software that isn't clunky and buggy. And it has to sound GREAT, up to NuPrime's standard for the rest of the line.
In other words, I'm looking for a Sonore MicroRendu in an STA-9 chassis with wifi. If it had an option for me to add my own SSD, like in the Auralic Aries Mini, even better. For something like that I'd pay $700-$900 - as I think a lot of customers would. Just my two cents!
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I'm not sure. Would the uDSD and my crusty HD450II get me through the night?
How many MW is the amp in the uDSD?
Matt
How "decent" are you talking about? If they've got the uDSD board in there, that has a built-in amp which will power most cans until you start getting into the heavies like planars or the higher end Senneiser/Beyerdynamic/AKG etc.
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I love my DAC-9, but wish it had streaming capability built in. I would LOVE to be able to add a simple wifi streamer in an STA-9 chassis with USB output that could sit right on top of my DAC-9. It should have either an internal linear power supply or an external power supply, allowing customers to use their own LPS via DC input. It has to be able to stream Tidal, and needs either AirPlay or RoonReady so that my wife and I can use streaming software that isn't clunky and buggy. And it has to sound GREAT, up to NuPrime's standard for the rest of the line.
In other words, I'm looking for a Sonore MicroRendu in an STA-9 chassis with wifi. If it had an option for me to add my own SSD, like in the Auralic Aries Mini, even better. For something like that I'd pay $700-$900 - as I think a lot of customers would. Just my two cents!
Have wireless built in is a very bad idea because it becomes obsolete quickly. If you have followed our discussion (too bad, I removed the Omnia topic), you can guess where the future looks like. When we were plotting our product road map, a year ago, I tell the team:
Don't think about what you want to do next year. Lets think about how our audio world will look like 3 to 5 years from now. Then we work backward from this vision.
Anyway, I wonder if you have noticed the NuPrime WR-100.
DAC-9 has a special port with [5V, S/PDIF, GND] pins. It is designed to power and communicate with any wireless dongle or device that we make. There's what we have today:
Bluetooth dongle - convert bluetooth (aptX supported) to S/PDIF for better result than typical bluetooth to analog receiver.
WR-100 - supports Qualcomm AllPlay and a growing number of streaming services. With the NuPrime app, you can stream music from DLNA server to WR-100. Or you can stream analog input of WR-100 to other WR-100s.
Higher end version WE-200 will support AirPlay, AllPlay and Bluetooth streaming up to 10 zones. You can mix and match WR-100 and WR-200.
So the vision is to have Omnia as the portable and all in one server + player, Raspberry Pi or other media servers for entry level system, and various receivers and speakers around the home as end points or renderers.
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We are making a small production of 20 units with the following spec. For internal wiring and layout, see the first few post.
After receiving several feedback, we have added Optical connector (with internal cable).
The front panel has two versions depending on whether you have uDSD inside or not.
Notable features:
1. External high quality switching power supply (engineer said linear doesn't offer advantage since we have power filter board inside) with filter board inside the case to ensure clean 5V power to Raspberry Pi and hard disk. There are two 2A 5V power supply.
2. Optical, Coaxial, RCA, HDMI outputs.
3. WiFi antenna.
4. Internal space for Raspberry Pi 3, hard disk, NuPrime uDSD DAC board, and power filter board.
We are also considering adding power amp inside (instead of internal hard drive). We have developed a low cost and very small version of STA-9 amp module. We can turn this into a all-in-one entry level system. It is not the high end sound like STA-9, but I bet it will be better than anything out there for this price and configuration.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147223)
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Anyway, I wonder if you have noticed the NuPrime WR-100.
DAC-9 has a special port with [5V, S/PDIF, GND] pins. It is designed to power and communicate with any wireless dongle or device that we make. There's what we have today:
Bluetooth dongle - convert bluetooth (aptX supported) to S/PDIF for better result than typical bluetooth to analog receiver.
WR-100 - supports Qualcomm AllPlay and a growing number of streaming services. With the NuPrime app, you can stream music from DLNA server to WR-100. Or you can stream analog input of WR-100 to other WR-100s.
Higher end version WE-200 will support AirPlay, AllPlay and Bluetooth streaming up to 10 zones. You can mix and match WR-100 and WR-200.
I'm excited to hear about the WR-200 with Airplay functionality. I've avoided the WR-100 - and will likely avoid the Omnia - because it forces me to use AllPlay or other software that's buggy and just not up to a minimum standard of usability. That's why AirPlay is so important, and it's why I'd love to see NuPrime become Roon Ready. I know it's irritating to have to adjust based on some other company's strategy, but their software is miles ahead of anything else out there, and the only one of the bunch that anyone other than die-hard audiophiles are willing to tolerate.
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Also - and I say this as a huge fan of NuPrime - I think you need to be careful about not cheapening the brand with products that don't meet your generally high standard of sound quality. NuPrime has been billed as the high-end answer to NuForce, but the website advertises the WR-100 as an alternative to the awful-sounding Google Chromecast with more features. Before I would think about buying a WR-200, I would need to be sure that its sound quality is on the same level as what NuPrime is offering with the DAC-9/STA-9. I have similar concerns about this new all-in-one-streamer, which you say will include a stripped down STA-9 that doesn't sound as good.
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Notable features:
1. External high quality switching power supply (engineer said linear doesn't offer advantage since we have power filter board inside) with filter board inside the case to ensure clean 5V power to Raspberry Pi and hard disk.
Read any engineering book,smps ripple is greater than linear's,ahhh you got a good filter,well then you are the best... :thumb:
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An amp module would be awesome. Would make a nice all in one for a secondary system.
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We are also considering adding power amp inside (instead of internal hard drive). We have developed a low cost and very small version of STA-9 amp module. We can turn this into a all-in-one entry level system. It is not the high end sound like STA-9, but I bet it will be better than anything out there for this price and configuration.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147223)
I think you would need to expand the preamp functionality. As it stands, there are no inputs, digital or analog. And even if its a power amp, you'd need to sacrifice something on the rear panel to accomodate binding posts, right?
Personally, i think trying to do everything is an ambitious (and nobel) goal, but i can see you ending up with many different configurations which will be confusing and ultimately drive the costs up.
I would like to see it remove the hard drive and add the preamp functions. As long as it can play off of a usb stick or external usb drive, and has a digital input for my cd player, thats fine. And at least one analog input. You could even make your own external hard drive case using off the shelf sata to usb converters.
Just my 2 cents.
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Also - and I say this as a huge fan of NuPrime - I think you need to be careful about not cheapening the brand with products that don't meet your generally high standard of sound quality. NuPrime has been billed as the high-end answer to NuForce, but the website advertises the WR-100 as an alternative to the awful-sounding Google Chromecast with more features. Before I would think about buying a WR-200, I would need to be sure that its sound quality is on the same level as what NuPrime is offering with the DAC-9/STA-9. I have similar concerns about this new all-in-one-streamer, which you say will include a stripped down STA-9 that doesn't sound as good.
What we are trying to do is to offer best-in-class products. At $99, WR-100 is not consider a high-end WiFi receiver, but compared to other sub $100 receiver, it has unique features and good sound quality. A lot of high-end brands avoided entry level products for several reasons:
1. worry about cheapening the brand
2. dealers refuse to sell them since there is no money to be made
We prefer to make products from $99 to > $5000. There is no particular lower or upper limit.
I think with the new low cost STA-6 (I use STA-9 for comparison due to similarity in design but it is a new amp) would make a complete system (amp+DAC+speaker) possible for under $1000. Most of you probably don't care about such a product, but we think it is an important entry level set for people who want something better than the mass market all-in-one system from the big brands, but either unable or unwilling to pay more.
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I was just talking with someone about something like this.
There are people who DIY cheaply on their own, and people who like ready made, with a few who DIY for top quality regardless of price. If you can especially appeal to those who DIY with your quality/price ratio -- and that seems to be one of your specialties -- then I think you'll have an enthusiastic base for encouraging those who've never done anything beyond plugging in a cable. Raspberry Pi has made it possible to do this without much too much more effort on the customer's part than that.
I would definitely be interested.
+1
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If roon was onboard that would be a winner...Bryston has also come out with a RPi unit
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I think with the new low cost STA-6 (I use STA-9 for comparison due to similarity in design but it is a new amp) would make a complete system (amp+DAC+speaker) possible for under $1000. Most of you probably don't care about such a product, but we think it is an important entry level set for people who want something better than the mass market all-in-one system from the big brands, but either unable or unwilling to pay more.
STA-6 do tell us more Jason...a new thread maybe for this.
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Space issue and noise. There is a power filter board inside so not the entire PSU is outside.
But the AC adapter is outside, keep the noisy transformer away.
AC --> DC outside, then more clean up internally for the DC power.
We are making this for real, some communication problem with production so it wasn't started until two weeks ago.
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can't wait !!
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rustydoglim
Will there be a IR sensor in the case connected to the pi? In my use it would be essential to at least on/off and play/stop/skip with a remote.
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Good question. I will follow up with R&D. Sine this chassis is also used by IDA-8 and DAC-9, there is a place for IR receiver on the front panel.
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Hi Jason
I would take a chassis and power supply but hopefully in silver. I am taking delivery of a Dac-9 and STA-9 next week in silver. Would you be making any in silver? A foursome of 2 Sta-9's, Dac-9 and RPi server would look great together especially if all the same finish.
Thanks, Chris
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Hi to all!
I am also interested on NuPrime Raspberry Pi Server, but without internal DAC because I have DAC-10H already. So, my question is, is it going to be better version of network player then WR-100 Wi-Fi Audio Adapter or will Raspberry Pi Server be in serial production and possible to order without internal DAC module and hard disc?
BR
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I will check with the factory about status.
This project is mainly to produce a chassis and power supply for DIY media server. So, hard disk and DAC are optional.
We are building from DAC-9/STA-9 series chassis so silver should be doable. I have to check if there is going to be any silver for the first batch.
The goal of this project is not simply to produce a chassis for Raspbery Pi. Eventually it will be revealed ;).
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We ran into minor mechanical mistake and have to make a new back panel.
Now we are looking into offering Omnia P1 (without battery and screen) in this form factor too.
Basically instead of Pi + your own DAC, you can have
Omnia motherboard (see the other topic about this) + ESS9018 DAC or AK4490 integrated with super cap and custom audio processor plus sampling rate converter. So you can run your favourite music streaming app on this server (it comes with a built-in Omnia Renderer and Omnia Media Server on this open Android platform).
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its beginning to look a lot like christmas... any updates to this Jason? even just as a chassis for some better looking R-Pi housing options would be good
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We are almost there. We ran into a problem insufficient USB ports and decided to add an internal USB hub to the back panel so some sourcing and mechanical stuff has to be redone.
I think we can start shipping in early January.
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We are almost there. We ran into a problem insufficient USB ports and decided to add an internal USB hub to the back panel so some sourcing and mechanical stuff has to be redone.
I think we can start shipping in early January.
Awesome ... any updated layout, internal options and pricing?
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Really looking forward as to how this turns out.
Since I don't have a dedicated Amp, but rather a DAC-AMP all-in-one, I decided to 'replicate' this idea with a single Raspberry Pi 3 and Volumio as the OS DAP (Digital Audio Player) hooked via USB to the DAC.
In my limited understanding, this reduces the need (or at least bypasses most of the advantages) of a linear or other expensive PSU / filter. Another advantage is that I don't need extra modules on the RPi as the DAC portion is being handled by the external DAC.
I am curious as to what OS route you are taking? My guess is that regular distros with Plex media server would have the tendency of doing internal resamplings, and other factors. On the other hand, using this ground-up bit-perfect distros like RuneAudio, Volumio, Moode, etc., would be a 'cleaner' and faster way of achieving better audio signals to the DAC. Also requires a lot less configuration and allows for other neat features as having AirPlay built into the OS, pre-programmed radio stations, etc.
Any thoughts on software? What am I missing? Interested in insight regarding that part of this amazing PC-DAC you are creating.
Best regards,
Rafa.
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Yes, space issue, but also to reduce noise. Since this is a source unit (i.e. small signal level and more susceptible to noise, it is also better to locate the power supply outside the box. There is a power filter board inside to clean up the external DC coming in from the AC adapter.
For other high end products like DAC-10, we use more expensive low noise power supply it can be located inside the box.
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Any word on the Software side? Or will this be left entirely to the user?
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This is DIY stuff, we can't support all sorts of software issues. There is a big Raspbery Pi support community out there.
We thought about installing Raspbery Pi and preconfigure everything, but still lacks the courage to make a commitment.
Seriously, if anyone wants to buy a preconfigured media server (and a player that you can carry away), it will be better off to get the Omnia.
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Jason, any updates...been another month slipped past?
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Confirm shipping in March. The reason for the delay is that we ended up putting a full USB 3.0 / C hub.
It is overkilled for Raspbery Pi but we are preparing for the capability to include the future Omnia server board.
Perhaps also Synology embedded board.
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Hi Jason, didn't see anything on the website, any updated pictures? Currently shipping?
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We are waiting with baited breath :scratch: turning a shade of blue in the meantime
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It is coming any time now. I will go update next week.
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next week..month...they are slipping by and still nothing?
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We will start taking orders this Friday, I assume most customers are from USA. This is not yet an official release to distributor so we will take order direct from factory. Sure, it will be supported with warranty and service. Delivery is about 2 weeks after we start taking orders. I will post the info by Friday.
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Can't wait! Was wondering though if the RPi server might come with the Ida-8 remote control, and how it might be set up to run more than just the uDSD volume etc - could it run the RPi 10 foot onscreen UI? Looking forward to details on Friday! Have a great weekend everyone!
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That engineering image of the back panel won't support a RPi 3b as it has 4 USB on the bac , not 3 as indicated.
Also what is a the speck for the powersupply - RPi needs about 2.5A on its own.
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Here's the final pricing NuPrime Pi-9 and only 20 units will be produced (1 year warranty and future repair not a problem as we designed and manufactured the power supply boards). As long as we have demands, we will continue to manufacturer it.
We call this our DIY Series.
There is an external power supply with internal power filter board that supplies two 2.5A 5V.
One of the USB port is used internally for uDSD (optional) so only 3 ports at the back.
MSRP $399 but for this batch you can order at 20% discount = $319. They will be shipped directly by FedEx from Taiwan factory to you (including outside of USA order) for $50 flat rate. If you are in very remote location we might charge in shipping. Anyway, $50 by FedEx Express is a subsidised rate already.
uDSD board = $85, 10% discount for this first batch = $76.50
To place an order, email your name, address, phone number to sales@nuprimeaudio.com and we will send you a Paypal invoice. Remember to mention if you want the uDSD board.
Hey guys, for all our R&D effort (mechanical and electrical engineers for all these work), I think we are losing money doing this :duh:
So get it before supplies run out or price goes up.
Shipping around end of May, give or take about a week. All the parts for 20 units are stocked up at the factory so we are ready to go.
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Here's how it looks like. If you don't order the uDSD board, the front panel will look like STA-9.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161859)
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Ill say this again with an image this time...if its not going to fit the latest RPi 3B then no point...there are 4 USB's not 3 as your drawing indicates
(https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2016/02/Official-Case-web.jpg)
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:thumb:
NuPrime always so exciting !
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Ill say this again with an image this time...if its not going to fit the latest RPi 3B then no point...there are 4 USB's not 3 as your drawing indicates
The Pi 2B also has 4 USB ports. As mentioned in Reply #99, the 4th USB port is reserved for internal connection to the optional uDSD module, so only 3 of the 4 USB ports are accessible from the back panel.
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I shared the updated info over at headfi as well, although the redesigned site is such a gongshow right now.
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Well it's not like you can just peel one USB off and use it internally :duh:
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Well it's not like you can just peel one USB off and use it internally :duh:
It was mentioned back in December that the a USB hub would be added to the back panel, so I am thinking the 3 rear USB ports on the back panel are mounted on a separate module board connected by cable to one (or three) of the RPi board mounted USB ports, leaving an internal RPi USB port to connect to the optional uDSD module?
In other words, plug and play with no modification of the RPi.
Steve
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144956)
Doesn't look like it in this artwork on the first post
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Maybe Jason can show us the internal layout and perhaps a real pic or 3
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Ill say this again with an image this time...if its not going to fit the latest RPi 3B then no point...there are 4 USB's not 3 as your drawing indicates
(https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2016/02/Official-Case-web.jpg)
No point for you perhaps, you can buy that red color case, it is pretty nice too :thumb:
One port is used for optional internal HD.
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I will ask the staff to take photo of the "step by step" mounting of the internal layout as they assembled the first unit.
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Happy to see these are getting closed to shipping. :thumb:
Just placed an order for two of them.
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It is good to know Pi-9 coming .
I have already sent an e-mail to order one.
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Hi Rustydog
Did you make any in silver?
Regards Chris
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Not for this "experimental" batch. if and when we also make the case for Omnia server, we can then supply silver color case.
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Sorry, one more update.
It turns out that we need to do soldering on the Pi board to connect the hub (and uDSD DAC if you need it), therefore the NuPrime Pi-9 (unofficial model but with full warranty and support) will have to include the Raspberry Pi3 board (< $40 ?).
We will inform those who sent us the orders this week and send you the invoice. They are ready for shipping.
If you haven't heard from us by Monday that means we lost your email.
Sorry, our factory is not setup to do sales (that's why we need distributors and dealers!) and this has been taking so long.
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I will ask the staff to take photo of the "step by step" mounting of the internal layout as they assembled the first unit.
Still waiting....
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Factory said they ordered Pi boards already and I will find out. That was the last piece of parts they need to start assembly.
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Jason,
Can a monitor be hooked up to this? How do I read the HD to know which songs to play? Or...do I see all the artists/albums on my iPad, for example?
Do you have a final introductory price yet?
Regards,
Michael
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Bump
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I’ve moved on many weeks ago and made my own setup. Pity I was really hoping something would come of this...but time waits for no man.
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I thought Pi-9 has been shipped to people who ordered.
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I have finally added NuPrime Pi-9 to this site that you can purchase directly:
https://nuoem.com/product-category/custom-design/electronics/audio/ (https://nuoem.com/product-category/custom-design/electronics/audio/)
A few people have bought it in July, please provide your feedback.
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I can only view the first photo (rear panel). The other thumbnails will highlight but do nothing (in Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari and Internet Explorer).
Haven't tried it on a different computer yet.
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I got it to kind of work with Firefox. The rear picture is lacking but Head Fi has some line drawings that present better.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nuprime-raspberry-pi-server-and-dac-with-volume-control.811335/
I added them below.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169057)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169058)
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While clicking on the row of very small thumbnails did nothing, I did find I could scroll the row of larger thumbnails above them and then click on them for a full size image.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169059)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169061)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169060)
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Thanks, I need to do some debugging on that page, nuprime website is using the same feature but working just fine.
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I'm wondering how these turned out? What have been people's experiences with the Pi with the uDSD in pairing? What OS are you using?
For previous Pi owners, do you notice a big difference with the power supply?
Thanks for the info,
Rafa.
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I suppose Jason has used volumio of raspberry, inter alia and remotely controllable from its app
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I'm wondering how these turned out? What have been people's experiences with the Pi with the uDSD in pairing? What OS are you using?
For previous Pi owners, do you notice a big difference with the power supply?
Thanks for the info,
Rafa.
Hi Rafa,
I don't have Nuprime PI server but load my PI board whit ropieee or dietPI or ARMbian(*) OS's and a squeezelite software modded and compiled from source started @ boot with parameter like these:
./squeezelite -n 'uDSD' -r '384000 352800 192000 176400 96000 88200 44100' -D 0:s32le -o 'iec958:CARD=CDP9,DEV=0' -b '12400:12400' -a '499:3:32:1'
the server side (@VirtualMachine PC) runs Daphile (beta) and stream directly to RPI with squeezelite (@DSD128 res.)
I. chain: DAPHILE (@VM PC) --- [LAN] --> RPI (squeezelite-R2) -- [USB] --> uDSD or CDP9 DAC
===
With another MODS, using circa same software with ARMBian and SPICE protocol, I can stream USB (Isochronous) directly to DAPHILE via LAN using RPI like a bridge for the USB virtualisation protocol..
II. chain : DAPHILE (@VM PC) --- [LAN] --> RPI (USB Virt ) -- [USB] --> uDSD or CDP9 DAC
With this MODS the Daphile VM view the virtualised USB via network channel, and use remote device like a directly attached DAC!
I started using DAPHILE because it support Tidal HIRES but it runs on X86 machines only , the RPI used like a bridge fill the gap because the X86 machine (and coolers) is away to audio gears.
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I'm wondering how these turned out? What have been people's experiences with the Pi with the uDSD in pairing? What OS are you using?
For previous Pi owners, do you notice a big difference with the power supply?
I have two of Pi servers with the uDSD, including one in my main system that consists of a pair of Harbeth 30.1s, a DAC-9 and two STA-9s. Prior to using the Pi server I had a SonicOrbiterSE (With the LPS) and then a microRendu from Sonore. The second PI server is in a bedroom system with an IDA-8 and a pair of ELAC Uni-Fi B5 slims.
I have swapped the pre-loaded image on both units with RoPieee, as i use Roon for playback software and wanted something specific to that.
Quite frankly i've been extremely happy with both units. Performance wise I have zero complaints. I'm able to achieve the same results from a product that not only matches the rest of my gear (a big + in my book) but also cost about 1/3 less than what i was using.
I don't really ever get much use from the uDSD as i have the DAC-9 and don't use headphones at home. i do have one hooked up to a pair of active speakers at work. The primary reason why i bought it was because the RCA outputs were fixed which is what i needed for the particular speakers i have. As a dac its great and as a headphone amp it drives my iSine 20's just fine. I do wish the volume was a little more linear (still drives them pretty easily) but if i were using more sensitive cans or iems i probably wouldn't.
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Thank you, very informative! I myself have a RPi 3 hooked to my DAC-10, and was hoping to buy a new one for the other system with the uDSD.
I still wonder how much better sound would the custom filter board would provide, but your info is very enlightning about what seems a really similar scenario.
Thanks,
Rafa.