New DAC 10 - a couple of questions

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1938 times.

joegator81

New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« on: 6 Apr 2017, 10:09 pm »
I was lucky to snatch a demo from AudioAdvisor at a great price. I have a couple of questions to start but will try to give a review when I have time and enough experience with it to make a good comparison to my other preamp and DAC. I do want to say that it sounds very nice already, no idea how many hours is on it.

A couple of questions.

Driving my Emerald Physics 100.2se power amp directly I run the volume into the 70's on some well recorded material, would it worth it trying the high output?

I also bought a pair of balanced To rca cables run into by two rhythmik subs. Do I need to back down on the subs plate amp to get back to the matched levels I had when running all rca in my old system?

Thanks

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 8120
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #1 on: 6 Apr 2017, 10:41 pm »
Thanks for asking.

Nice piece, nice score.

Don't know what the "high output" is but why not just try it?  Just start out with everything turned down to be safe.

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #2 on: 6 Apr 2017, 10:45 pm »
There is a higher voltage switch on the dac10h that is normally used with headphones I think. Now that I think about it I'm not even sure whether the non head version has that switch. I'll have to look

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 784
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #3 on: 7 Apr 2017, 12:58 am »
JLM

It doubles the output of the two sets of outputs.  Could have been accomplished easier by running balanced cables between the DAC-10 and the amp then leaving all RCA's on the subs. Changing to High output won't bother the DAC-10 but in doing so you will putting 8 volts to the subs plate amps which could cause a problem.  The other wiring arrangement would have let the amp and the subs both see a voltage they were designed to handle. 

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #4 on: 7 Apr 2017, 01:20 am »
The reason I'm using the balanced to RCA cables with the sub is because I would rather use my audio art ic3 se cables going to my power amp and speakers. Are you saying I could damage the subs? Or I should just back off the gain on the subs amp to compensate?

Of course the other option is to use double female rca adapters at the DAC rca output.


JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 784
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #5 on: 7 Apr 2017, 02:06 am »
You are probably going to have to back it down some until the sound  comes back in balance all testable with a smartphone and a SPM app or a RS meter.  As to possible damage I would send the guys at Rythmik an e-mail and ask. If you leave the DAC-10 at the low setting you are only pushing the subs 4 volts which they should handle. Either you like it loud or the speakers are not that efficient as 70's seems kind of high based on my experience with the DAC-10 with three different amps and that may different speakers.  Anyway running the DAC-10 in the 70's is not a problem if that is what is required. 

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #6 on: 7 Apr 2017, 11:52 am »
Thanks Jack.

I'll ask Brian at rhythmik. I've unplugged them for now.


After listening a bit more, I only hit the 70's with a few recordings, Dave Grusins very dynamic sticks and stones record being one of them. It must be mastered quite low. Flim and the BBs seem to be as well. As you said I think all is well.



Nidri17

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 35
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #7 on: 8 Apr 2017, 04:32 am »
Afaik it's not a problem with NuPrime DAC's to run the volume higher up in the range.
Even at 70 I believe you're still attenuating the signal, i.e. below unity gain.

In fact, it might be better, ultimately, to run at a higher level.
This line from the website implies that, for digital sources, the volume control operates digitally, so higher settings should be better, generally speaking:

"Therefore it make sense to best adjust the volume in the digital domain for digital signals, and use an analog preamp and volume control for analog inputs."

That said, the very next paragraph seems to contradict the previous statement somewhat:

"Our DAC-9 and DAC-10* have analog inputs without A-to-D conversion. We use a mixed analog and digital volume-control design. The digital volume control’s 0.5db steps are sent to the DAC for the best possible result. The DAC’s analog output and analog inputs from other sources then go through a switch-resistor network. The DAC's output is switched straight through with minimum resistance. For analog inputs, the switch resistor network provides the best possible result."

It's very clear that volume control from analog sources is managed by 'switch-resistor network'.
But the above two statements imply that, for digital sources, BOTH the 'digital volume control' and 'switch-resistor network' play a role. Confusing.

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #8 on: 9 Apr 2017, 07:11 pm »
Thanks for the reply. I'm finding that with pretty much all well mastered music (even 16/44) I can get up into the 70's and even low 80's. That being said I hear nothing detrimental to the quality of sound. The DAC 10 is the quietest pre I've ever had. It is dead silent. I was listening at lower than normal volumes last night and found that I wasn't losing detail and the dynamic contrasts were still there. I've also found that I can really crank the volume louder than I used to without getting glare or hard treble, very impressive. The low end is substantial and controlled. I've had to back down the gain on my subs with both se and balanced outs. I'm playing my turntable through the line inputs as we speak, not bad at all. I've got a Duffy phono pre on the way, I'm excited to see how the pre section is at revealing the differences. I'm seriously considering the mods. Also wondering how an ST10 would compare to my emerald physics 100.2se, which I like very much?

KLH007

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 322
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #9 on: 9 Apr 2017, 10:55 pm »
Joe, A comparison between the EP 100.2 SE and a ST-10 would be informative, EP linear P/S and Phillips (Hypex) chip vs switching P/S and NuPrime's propritary Class D design. I have an EP 100.2 SE but haven't compared it to the ST-10, although I've heard the ST-10, if I postulate I think the ST-10 eeks out more detail and the EP might have more power in the deep bass and is a touch warmer?

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 784
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #10 on: 9 Apr 2017, 11:52 pm »
The ST-10 has a transformer not an SMPS, so it comes down to which flavor of Class  D you prefer. Depending on the efficiency of your speakers another higher powered option is the NC500 based Nord One Up.

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #11 on: 10 Apr 2017, 12:59 am »
I have LSA 1 Statements. The only complaint I have with these speakers, and this might be unfair due to large open space they are asked to fill, is the low end is just a bit less defined than everything else. It's there it's just not as tight and informative. In an enclosed room they would be killer top to bottom. I'm experimenting with foam bungs in the ports and slightly higher sub crossovers. I have not sensed any problems with the 100 watt emerald physics driving these but maybe the st 10 would take a little extra grip to the low end and eek out some more definition or two sta9's might be the best of both worlds? It's really a minor complaint though as it only lacks in comparison to everything else. Soundstage and imaging are phenomenal and so far the dac10 keeps those wide images chiseled in place.

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #12 on: 10 Apr 2017, 01:02 am »
KLH, your comments are definitely helpful and I agree with your assessment, I consider slightly warm (some call it tubey) and the bass hits low (even lower and tighter with the dac10 feeding my rhythmiks)

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 784
Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #13 on: 10 Apr 2017, 06:08 pm »
Once you get the subs dialed in then the bass capability differences of the two amps won't be as important. I would think somewhere between 60-80 hz from looking at the reviews. Which one you would prefer in the mid-range an up will be a personal preference.  There is a synergy however between the two Nuprime pieces. 

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #14 on: 15 Apr 2017, 01:12 pm »
I really wish there was a nuprime dealer in my area (treasure coast area of Florida) who might lend an st-10 but I'm gonna hold off on the amp for a little while since the ep100se is no slouch. I want to try the dac10 mods first and maybe a new cart on my TT since the digital side is now better in some aspects.

rustydoglim

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #15 on: 18 Apr 2017, 09:06 am »
A little known feature of DAC-10/10H is that by holding the mute button for 3 seconds, the RCA line out will be cut off.
I often forget about this feature.

John Casler

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #16 on: 20 Apr 2017, 05:22 pm »
I really wish there was a nuprime dealer in my area (treasure coast area of Florida) who might lend an st-10 but I'm gonna hold off on the amp for a little while since the ep100se is no slouch. I want to try the dac10 mods first and maybe a new cart on my TT since the digital side is now better in some aspects.

Hi Joe,

We have an "open box" ST-10 that we might be able to work with you on.

I'll send you a PM.

I could be wrong, but isn't the EP100SE built by Red Dragon.  It should be an excellent amp, but I am sure you could hear differences.

Check your PM's

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #17 on: 21 Apr 2017, 06:03 pm »
Hi Joe,

We have an "open box" ST-10 that we might be able to work with you on.

I'll send you a PM.

I could be wrong, but isn't the EP100SE built by Red Dragon.  It should be an excellent amp, but I am sure you could hear differences.

Check your PM's

Responded John, not sure if the ep100.2se is designed by red dragon engineers and sold by emerald physics but it is an "emerald physics" amp and not a "red dragon". They are sold exclusively through the owners online dealership as far as I know

joegator81

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #18 on: 17 May 2017, 12:08 am »
Just a quick update. I love this thing, so detailed, smooth, liquid. As a DAC it is a huge upgrade over my Halide hd. Thing is, the Halide was no slouch, I really thought I wasn't missing all that much but the increase in spaciousness and a greater sense of ease is palpable. Where the Halide could be pushed to hardness at high volumes (connected to a tube pre), the dac10 just seems to go on and on. My ears give out before my system does. As a preamp with my turntable it is every bit as good as my Belles 22a. I didn't do any close comparisons but don't feel like I'm missing anything since I added a tube phono pre. I don't find the system inherently warm or cold. It's neutral, the music dictates what you hear. That being said, it is not merciless.

I would like to hear any new opinions about the tdss upgrades if anyone would like to share?

Brad

Re: New DAC 10 - a couple of questions
« Reply #19 on: 17 May 2017, 01:19 am »
Joe, glad you're enjoying your DAC-10.  I've had mine for a good while now.  I run the volume into the 80s at times, but my amp is only about 2wpc.
The analog side is really clean, I love vinyl through my phono stage into the DAC-10.

Cheers, 

Brad in Houston