A true Class D revolution that we humbly called Evolution One

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rustydoglim

Spenav, you obviously are not a NuPrime customer or have been following my posts.
Many of these guys have seen my track record and post for 13 years!
So far I have been pretty spot on with my posts.

In the history of class D amp, I would say that NuForce Ref 9 back in 2005 was a revolutionary product, the very first time a class-D amp was awarded Product Of The Year. Many amps have surpassed the Ref 9, including NuPrime ST-10, and subsequent versions of Ref 9. 

So, I will only say that this is the 2nd time in my history that I consider Evo One a revolutionary product.  Ref 18, ST-10 got product of the year awards, in fact by several magazines. And I don't consider them revolutionary, they are incredibly good. Evo One is the new product that I can confidently say that it takes us to the next level.

Wind Chaser

Everyone's kids are beautiful in their own eyes. I will believe the testimony over the Evo one when an outsider like Stereophile Magazine or the Absolute Sound weighs in and compares it to what's out there. Forgive me for being skeptical, I have kids too.

Did it ever occur to you that these magazines rarely if ever write anything but positive reviews, and that they rarely if ever review a product unless the manufacturer is “paying them off” in the form of advertising revenue?


John Casler

They are, indeed, MONO amps.

The previous price had a nice 'double price' ladder, but current scheme has a significant jump:
- ST-10 -> $1500 total
- ST-10M (next suggested step in sound upgrade) -> $3000 total (2 required)
- Evo1 (ultimate sound upgrade according to Jason) -> $8000 total (2 required).



Just a quick correction so no one is confused:

- ST-10 -> List Price $1595 total
- ST-10M (next suggested step in sound upgrade) -> List Price $3190 total (2 required)

These are US prices in USD.


giordy60

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what are the specifications of the Evo 1?
Power to 8 and 4 ohms

Spenav

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Rusty, I don't question your honesty. For the record I am a proud owner of an ST-10 and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I am sure you believe everything you said about the Evo One and all of it might even be true. As a consumer however I don't think I should buy a product based solely on what the manufacturer is telling about it. When I buy a product on Amazon, I usually based my decision on the 3-star reviews. I want to know what the critics are saying also. Some of their remarks might be unreasonable but others are warranted. That's just me. I wholeheartedly hope that you are right but as an educated individual, I need to also hear it from someone who is not vested in the company.  I am glad to hear that you are still with Nuprime because I believe I bought my ST-10 from you some two years ago and you were very helpful and knowledgeable. Thanks again.

Jye

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Firstly, to answer the question on the noise with a high impedance input. Yes, high impedance input will definitely be more susceptible to noise. If poorly designed, all the finer details in the signal that is gained from the high impedance circuitry will be marred with noise. The designer understood this very well and had to make sure that noise rejection and filtering are sufficiently improved to justify the gains. Hence the circuitry of this 1M Ohm input stage is entirely new, and not just increasing the input impedance of our prior input stage designs.

We wanted to share some early information on the Evo One before it hit the shelves to keep the community updated on its development. Like Jason mentioned, the engineers went many steps ahead of us on this project. What was initially a Ref 20E got improved to a Reference Evo and then to a whole new Evo One. Our excitement comes not only because we have a new product, but something new which we are all very proud of. We could only relate this excitement by providing as much as we can from what we gather from the engineers and listening comparisons we have done in house.

There's still a bit of work to do before Evo One gets to the market, and we are working very hard to keep the end April release date. Hopefully by then, most questions here can be answered and those who get to hear them could share their listening impressions.

envydd

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Curious: whats the entire stack (from source to the speakers) that are being used to test the evolution one amp?

rustydoglim

Jason, I have appreciated your clear tables ranking all your amp products over the years on important sound parameters and will be interested to see when you add the Evolution to these. Keep up the good work.
Question: when you are evaluating products what source and speakers do you tend to use the most?

I think the lab use an old Yamaha monitor speaker, very revealing.  I can't remember the model since this is not something I do.
I am not the person who approve the sound, by the time I get to evaluate it, the product is close to production.

rustydoglim

For R&D, listening test is the last step and simply to validate the design, because after so many years of design experience, the engineers can correlate theory and simulation with real world results.  So after extensive circuit simulation on computer, the design is then implemented. And then measurement tests result flaws in design, implementation (layout routing etc) or choice of parts. Engineers perform listening test just to confirm what the measurement tests already reviewed.  Perhaps the listening tests can provide further insides.

But what we do is very scientific and engineering focus. There is no trial and error  :nono:
Therefore the choice of audio equipment is important only that they are revealing and consistent. We can't do evaluation test on many speakers because that would be trial and error.   We use the old P20, an experimental preamp, DAC-10H as the preamps.  Source is now CDT-8 Pro (for listening tests, most of the time we don't need high-res beyond CD since we are looking for relative improvement).

We got excited about Evo 1 because even though theory, simulation and measurement tests are all good, nothing compare to the WOW factor.  We started with ST-10, then ST-10M, then Ref 20, and then Evo One, and got the wow, holy shit kind of reaction.
Thanks to many feedback from customers here about our products, so we can predict how Evo One will sound in the "real world".

rustydoglim

Rusty, I don't question your honesty. For the record I am a proud owner of an ST-10 and I have nothing but good things to say about it. I am sure you believe everything you said about the Evo One and all of it might even be true. As a consumer however I don't think I should buy a product based solely on what the manufacturer is telling about it. When I buy a product on Amazon, I usually based my decision on the 3-star reviews. I want to know what the critics are saying also. Some of their remarks might be unreasonable but others are warranted. That's just me. I wholeheartedly hope that you are right but as an educated individual, I need to also hear it from someone who is not vested in the company.  I am glad to hear that you are still with Nuprime because I believe I bought my ST-10 from you some two years ago and you were very helpful and knowledgeable. Thanks again.

Thanks for your compliment.  Sure I am still with NuPrime, I thought everyone knew that I am the CEO  :lol:
With regard to comment about new products, I have to be as objective as possible with my comment relative to existing products.  Otherwise nobody is going to believe what I say if I keep singing praises for our products.  Furthermore, I can't control what customers will say, so if I am too positive about a product and then people started to say "well, it is nice but not living up to the hype from Jason", I will lose credibility!  Likewise, Jye has to be accurate with his assessment because everyone is reading what we say and we leave a trail as public record.

Most of time when people ask me if they should upgrade to a new product, I usually tell them "don't bother, you are getting incremental improvement, just wait". 

Wind Chaser

Most of time when people ask me if they should upgrade to a new product, I usually tell them "don't bother, you are getting incremental improvement, just wait".

 8)  :thumb:

Spenav

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Did it ever occur to you that these magazines rarely if ever write anything but positive reviews, and that they rarely if ever review a product unless the manufacturer is “paying them off” in the form of advertising revenue?

Hi Wind
It sure sounds like that doesn't it?  To their defense however, most reviewers don't write reviews about equipment that they think is not worth the time and ink they would need to spend on it. The ST-10 had a very nice review in the Absolute Sound and it was not lips service either. I am really looking forward to read about the Evo One.  These guys listen to more amps than I will ever do so I trust them to at least stir me to the right direction so that I can take the time to listen for myself.  There are quite a few good amps out there today, if Nuprime can carve a spot at the top I am all ears because they usually price their equipment reasonably. Take care.

envydd

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I am excited about this amp because for a non audiophile, Jason and his crew will surely create an IDA-16/IDA-8 successor in a few years with the same tech. e.g. what they did with the STA-6/IDA-6 is quite amazing, at the price point.

Patiently watching till then :)

Spenav

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Wonder how TAD feels about this naming convention. It just so happens that they have a floor standing speaker named Reference One ($78,000) and another one called Evolution One ($29,000).
« Last Edit: 8 May 2018, 07:24 pm by Spenav »

RafaPolit

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    • www.rafaelpolit.com
I don't think you can own words.  If I name my new revolutionary door invention: The Door, does that mean no one can ever market a product as a door hence forward? And how about numbers, if I call my new component DAC-5, can no one ever use the number 5 in their naming?

The problem is with searches and comparisons, but for the sake of intellectual property, I don't think there is an issue.

BobRex

Tell that to Bose.  They went after Thiel over a decimal point!

Phil A

Tell that to Bose.  They went after Thiel over a decimal point!

Yes - they have sued a ton of people - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_Corporation

I actually met a guy who owned a stereo store in Philly many moons ago and was using direct reflecting technology before Bose.  He actually used good drivers in real world sized enclosures.  Bose bullied him too.

Carl V

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Porsche changed from 901 to 911....due to Peugot's number system.

Trade dress is not quite the same as wording

Spenav

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Re: A true Class D revolution that we humbly called Evolution One
« Reply #38 on: 10 May 2018, 03:43 am »
I hope for the sake of civility no one gets sued. I just thought I should point that out since nobody had. Food for thought.

Phil A

Re: A true Class D revolution that we humbly called Evolution One
« Reply #39 on: 10 May 2018, 03:52 am »
I hope for the sake of civility no one gets sued. I just thought I should point that out since nobody had. Food for thought.

+1 on that - I guess I'll have to give up those plans for calling my speaker I was thinking of marketing the Spenav 2.2 (darn) :green: