Big7 tube shootout!

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sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #120 on: 2 Oct 2015, 12:30 pm »
I must preface this with the statement that I have no actual knowledge of the circuit.  However, from the tubes, the switch between 45/101D and 2A3/300b isn't a voltage switch.  I imagine it isn't a heater switch at all.  It may have a current limiting function or a resistance function for the anode voltage or the grid bias, but the 45 and 2A3 both have 2.5 volt heaters (amperage is different) and the 300B and 101D have heaters over 4 volts.  I imagine the heater voltage winding on the Lampi is 2.5 or 3 volts (I suppose it could be a constant current transformer with variable voltage, but that seems unlikely). That is why the filaments on the 6A3 and higher voltage tubes barely light up.  How he gets enough electrons off the directly heated cathodes in this instance is a good question in my eyes.  Frankly, I would love to understand the circuit more. 

And I also should say that I have run plenty of tubes slightly out of spec on the heaters (7dj8s instead of 6dj8s, 8bq5 and 10bq5 instead 6bq5, and 12sn7 instead of 6sn7).  All work.  Some better than others and it is highly circuit dependent.  My 6bq5 amp sounds awesome no matter what is used.  However, I could not use a 25SN7 in place of a 12sn7.  The cathode was too starved to function.  This raises more questions than answers about operating points, indirect vs direct heat, triodes vs pentodes, etc. 

sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #121 on: 2 Oct 2015, 12:41 pm »
So for Norman's rectifier spots, the first Brimar is a Russian made Brimar.  LANGREX is a good seller and it is likely a fine tube.  The 5AR4 is a good old Mullard (if it tests well).  $59 is a bargain for it if it is still good.  Note that the F32 is the tube type, not the date code.  F32=5AR4, F31=5R4, etc.  The other Brimar is a tube I don't recognize completely.  I need to study it more.

wisnon

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #122 on: 2 Oct 2015, 02:01 pm »
So for Norman's rectifier spots, the first Brimar is a Russian made Brimar.  LANGREX is a good seller and it is likely a fine tube.  The 5AR4 is a good old Mullard (if it tests well).  $59 is a bargain for it if it is still good.  Note that the F32 is the tube type, not the date code.  F32=5AR4, F31=5R4, etc.  The other Brimar is a tube I don't recognize completely.  I need to study it more.

Thanks Shawn, it's good to have a tube afficionado like you to steer us right.....You certainly know the good stuff from the fakes.

wisnon

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #123 on: 2 Oct 2015, 02:09 pm »
I must preface this with the statement that I have no actual knowledge of the circuit.  However, from the tubes, the switch between 45/101D and 2A3/300b isn't a voltage switch.  I imagine it isn't a heater switch at all.  It may have a current limiting function or a resistance function for the anode voltage or the grid bias, but the 45 and 2A3 both have 2.5 volt heaters (amperage is different) and the 300B and 101D have heaters over 4 volts.  I imagine the heater voltage winding on the Lampi is 2.5 or 3 volts (I suppose it could be a constant current transformer with variable voltage, but that seems unlikely). That is why the filaments on the 6A3 and higher voltage tubes barely light up.  How he gets enough electrons off the directly heated cathodes in this instance is a good question in my eyes.  Frankly, I would love to understand the circuit more. 

And I also should say that I have run plenty of tubes slightly out of spec on the heaters (7dj8s instead of 6dj8s, 8bq5 and 10bq5 instead 6bq5, and 12sn7 instead of 6sn7).  All work.  Some better than others and it is highly circuit dependent.  My 6bq5 amp sounds awesome no matter what is used.  However, I could not use a 25SN7 in place of a 12sn7.  The cathode was too starved to function.  This raises more questions than answers about operating points, indirect vs direct heat, triodes vs pentodes, etc.

I cant recall but I made a post here months ago, based on what I was told by Lukasz. The circuits is based on watts, not voltage and the 6a3 is underheated in the 101d setting, but most here prefer the sound. When I tried, both settings sounded the same to me. I also think, but am not sure, that recent builds of B7 and GG changed/optimized the operating point of the 2a3 setting to favour more the 300b specs. This could explain why you Shawn and others prefer other tubes in the GG compared to what was your favourite when you used the B7. Andy, who does not post here, has a Gg and a B7 and says that the Sophia CP 2.5v is great in his B7, but not so great in the GG, where the Elrogs and Anniversary 45 are kings. I need to ask him if he tried any primo 300Bs like the Psvane WE replica, Takatsuki, Kron or vintage WE.

Here is what Lukasz said:
The 2A3/300b setting can work up to 6.5watts, while the 45 setting is up to 4.5watts. This is voltage times amps.

As the 6A3 is 6.3v x 1amp, its should correctly be in the 2a3 setting, however, many/most report that it sounds better in the 101d setting, which means it only gets about 4.5w when it's specs demand 6.3w. This means its underheated and when I googled that,, it says underheating can shorten tube life. however, that comment was in context of its use iun POWER amps and here they are used as preamps with maybe 5% of its rated capacity, so very little stress. In addition, its one of the more economical tubes out there with price per pair varying from $80 to $150...so people are not scared to use it as they see fit.

Finally 6a3 in any setting will run cool in the Lampi as the voltage drop from the power supply is just 0.5v times the moderate amperage of 1.0 means the heat needed to be dissipate is just half a watt per tube!

sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #124 on: 2 Oct 2015, 06:20 pm »
Actually, the Brimar isn't a fake.  Just a tube that they sold that wasn't made in the UK.  I have some earlier Brimar foreign tubes that are awesome. 


dminches

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #125 on: 3 Oct 2015, 02:38 am »
I started tonight listening to the Sylvania 6A3 on the 45/101D setting.  I didn't think it sounded very different than on the 300B/2A3 setting and it certainly didn't sound better.  If I had to choose a setting it would be on the 2A3.

Next, I rolled in a pair of KR Audio 300B balloons.  As of now these are my favorite Big 7 DHTs.  They have a similiar 3D sound as the 6A3s but a much fuller and enjoyable bottom end.

Tomorrow I will roll a couple rectifiers including a metal base GZ34.  By the weekend I hope to be done with tube rolling for a while and just enjoy the music.

wisnon

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #126 on: 3 Oct 2015, 11:03 am »
So for Norman's rectifier spots, the first Brimar is a Russian made Brimar.  LANGREX is a good seller and it is likely a fine tube.  The 5AR4 is a good old Mullard (if it tests well).  $59 is a bargain for it if it is still good.  Note that the F32 is the tube type, not the date code.  F32=5AR4, F31=5R4, etc.  The other Brimar is a tube I don't recognize completely.  I need to study it more.

The seller for the Foreign Brimar is none other than:

Dave
Arizona Tube Supply
http://www.arizonatubesupply.com/
(602) 803-6290

He also has more 1944 JAN RCA 5r4gy for $88 a piece. This is the double angled getter WW2 fabled recti, that many claim threatens the WE 274b.

wisnon

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #127 on: 3 Oct 2015, 11:05 am »
I started tonight listening to the Sylvania 6A3 on the 45/101D setting.  I didn't think it sounded very different than on the 300B/2A3 setting and it certainly didn't sound better.  If I had to choose a setting it would be on the 2A3.

Next, I rolled in a pair of KR Audio 300B balloons.  As of now these are my favorite Big 7 DHTs.  They have a similiar 3D sound as the 6A3s but a much fuller and enjoyable bottom end.

Tomorrow I will roll a couple rectifiers including a metal base GZ34.  By the weekend I hope to be done with tube rolling for a while and just enjoy the music.

Interesting…it could be as Shawn speculated that the more recent B7/GG have a changed anode supply? People who saw a preference had older units.

dminches

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #128 on: 3 Oct 2015, 04:59 pm »
The metal base GZ34 is a great compliment to the KR Audio 300Bs.  Bass is fuller than with the 596 and there is more clarity and air in the mids.  I am enjoying evolution of the sound with the Big 7 as I find a nice tube combination.


sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #129 on: 3 Oct 2015, 05:06 pm »
If the PO ever pays my claim for my metal GZ34/101D, I will buy another...

dminches

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #130 on: 3 Oct 2015, 05:09 pm »
Is the GZ34 direct headed?  Which fall into the other category?

sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #131 on: 3 Oct 2015, 05:44 pm »
GZ34 should be indirectly (so is the 5V4G and the 422A).  5U4G, 5R4 and 274b are directly heated.  For all intents and purposes, this should be a meaningless difference in the DAC (assuming the filter caps are good).  Cheap equipment is a different story...  Anyway, directly heated will have the electrons start moving fast (so really that means that the B+ voltage will come up and hit the plate, etc. before the filaments in the power tubes have heated up if the power tubes were not directly heated as well).  In my experience, it is under 5 seconds. The indirectly heated tubes will slowly bring up the B+ as the cathode heats and the electrons start to move.  In my experience, there is about a 5-10 second delay for an indirectly heated rectifier to bring up the B+...  Some varieties of indirect tubes had longer times to come up to operation (often preamp tubes).  So, I hope that helps.


dminches

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #132 on: 3 Oct 2015, 05:49 pm »
That's all I needed to know!  Thanks Shawn.

wisnon

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #133 on: 3 Oct 2015, 08:02 pm »

sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #134 on: 3 Oct 2015, 09:04 pm »
Voltage drop importance is a matter of the circuit usage, not just the tube.  There are other factors as well   So it isn't as if a 274b with a big drop is worse than a 5AR4 (smallest drop).

wisnon

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #135 on: 3 Oct 2015, 09:28 pm »
The article implies that big voltage drops are better in general...

sfox7076

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #136 on: 3 Oct 2015, 10:10 pm »
I was just saying.  Dave was discussing his Gz34/ 5AR4, with the smallest voltage drop.   

dminches

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #137 on: 10 Oct 2015, 05:11 pm »
Shawn lent me a pair of Western Electric 275As.  Wow.  The midrange is perfect.  They cleared up some of the congestion I was hearing with the KR Audio 300Bs.  They are slightly less full in the lowest registers but only by a tad.  I would trade that for midrange perfection any day.

This is the best pair of DHTs I have heard in my Big 7.  Now I need to find a pair!

bonzo75

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Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #138 on: 10 Oct 2015, 06:41 pm »
Have you tried 101d yet - how did you like the replicas compared to KR Audio.

dminches

Re: Big7 tube shootout!
« Reply #139 on: 10 Oct 2015, 07:16 pm »
I tried the Psvane 101Ds which came with the Big 7 and I didn't care for them.

I am now listening to a pair of Sylvania 6B4Gs (with adapters).  I like them.