Gustard X20?

sruffle · « **Reply #380 on:** 3 Oct 2016, 06:06 pm »

I have an early 2009 MacMini running Yosemite. It has 8 GB Ram and a Core2 processor. The Drive is a SSD. I recommend giving Audirvana a try.

quadman · « **Reply #381 on:** 20 Oct 2016, 05:47 pm »

I apologize for copying one of my posts form another forum but it is so long I don't want to retype. It regards a comparison of my Gustard vs the T&A Dac 8 DSD and some comments on how great music is at DSD512.

I have (had) a T&A Dac 8 DSD in house. I was building a audio PC for a friend to incorporate, Roon, HQ player, Tidal and Audio Fidelizger so he could move into audio streaming after his very old Meridian Sooloos bit the dust. Well I had the Dac for approximately 20 days and ran it a little over 200 hours with music signal which 99.5% was at DSD512. Of course I compared it to my very heavily modified Gustard which has full Level 1 mod, a DIYinHK DSD512 USB to I2S card and a Abracon OCXO 100mHz clock soldered at the coax tower with a Acko regulator in front of it to provide clean power. Both the DSD card and Acko regulators are powered from external PSU's. My dac is fully DSD512 capable and is very stable at that resolution. As far as I know I am the only one who is getting DSD512 from this dac, at least in the forums I follow.

DSD512 is where the magic happens, going from DSD128-DSD256 is a subtle but nice jump, going from 256 to 512 is strangely a huge jump, one that I have no real technical explanation for. Common sense says you have a music file which is, most likely, 16/44.1 redbook resolution and you take this file and with the magic of HQ Player upsample it many, many times to DSD512. How can that improve it? If I have a photo at say 720P resolution and I suddenly increase (upsample) it to 4K resolution wouldn't the pixels now be more obvious, wouldn't it look worse? Strangely that does not happen when up sampling music and 512 is just more real, more being at the event than listening to a recording of the event. Background noise is lower, way lower (not measured) transparency is then obviously greater, leading edges better defined, bass becomes more focused and impactful, separation of the performers is greater and more 3D. Some very good recordings have made me gasp at how real the voice, guitar or violin can be. Almost eerie. I love it and I am never going back.

On my very first listen to the T&A at 512, it was not apples to apples (to the X20). The dac had a cheap power cord, and a stock USB cable, I did not have Roon or Audio Fidelizer pro on it. The dac also had just a few hours on it and it sounded thin and un-involving. As the hours on it increased and my work to make the comparison as close as possible continued I was finally ready to compare. Both dacs had the same power cable, the T&A had a slightly better USB cable from the same manufacture. Both Dacs had Roon, HQ Player and Audio Fidelizger Pro. Each dac was run from separate PC's but both PC's used Gigabyte MB's with Dac-UP USB out, seasonic PSU's and Win10 pro and the same power cords plugged into the same conditioner.. The Gustard was its usual very involving self, I just love the way it plays back music at DSD512. The T&A became a refinement of the Gustard they were close and I'll bet a lot of untrained folks would struggle to hear the difference. It had a bit quieter background, transparency was up a notch, leading edges had a bit more definition bass had more detail. where the pluck of a double bass string the resonance of it in wood body was more evident that with the Gustard, thou it may not of had the weight (close tho) that the X20 has. Also the separation and 3D placement of musicians was a bit more obvious. It also felt just a bit more real than the Gustard, less recorded more there. Now these are just subtle differences that I bet a lot of folks would not be aware of, but differences non-the-less that audiophiles pay huge $ for those type of gains. On another night I swapped the better USB cable on the T&A with the next one down the line in the Gustard, the gap closed slightly but I still give the nod to the T&A. I suspect if I decide to pop for the $400+ Pulsar OCXO clock the gap would almost vanish. For $4K the T&A may be the best sounding DSD512 Dac available and it is 44k and 48k compatible unlike the gustard which is only 44K. What that means is a 48K based files (24/48,96,192) is up sampled to 24.6 Mhz and a 44.1 file is up sampled to 22.6 mHz so in HQ Player you can check auto rate family which will lessen the CPU/GPU load somewhat. The Gustard will upsamaple 48K based files to 22.6, which increases CPU load as it essentially has to down sample from 24.6 to 22.6 mHz.

Tuesday I packed the T&A up to send to my buddy and next week I fly to install his new PC and T&A and it goes into a state of the art analog system with a modified struder reel to reel with very high quality tapes, and a SME30MK2 TT with top of the line dynavector cartridge. So we will see where the T&A at DSD512 fits into that picture. Last night I had to listen to just my Gustard and was not disappointed, it still is very involving, very transparent and very real like. Like I said they are close but ultimately if I had to choose just one cost not a consideration I pick the T&A. The consolation prize is not bad tho.

martinr · « **Reply #382 on:** 22 Oct 2016, 04:49 pm »

Thanks for this update Quadman.....I plan to send my stock X20 to Ric Shultz probably in December for the level 1 upgrade plus clock....I am upsampling redbook/flac files to DSD 128 through Foobar, would have to purchase the Singxer-SU-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-interface-PCM-384kHz-DSD256-I2S-HDMI-output to upsample to DSD 256...seems to me the level 1 mod with clock although more expensive than the Singxer will render a better bang for the buck upgrade at this point than upsampling from DSD 128 to 256.....any other suggestions you might have are greatly appreciated!

Happy Listening...

- Martin

jmdesignz2 · « **Reply #383 on:** 24 Oct 2016, 02:01 am »

Has anyone compared the Gustard X20U to the Ayre Codex?

How well would the Gustard drive McCormack DNA1 DLX amps directly via balanced inputs?

aldcoll · « **Reply #384 on:** 24 Oct 2016, 02:09 am »

Quote from: jmdesignz2 on 24 Oct 2016, 02:01 am

Has anyone compared the Gustard X20U to the Ayre Codex?

How well would the Gustard drive McCormack DNA1 DLX amps directly via balanced inputs?

It drove my Modwright 150 SE via balanced or rca.

jmdesignz2 · « **Reply #385 on:** 24 Oct 2016, 03:24 am »

Quote from: aldcoll on 24 Oct 2016, 02:09 am

It drove my Modwright 150 SE via balanced or rca.

Did you notice any difference running balanced?

aldcoll · « **Reply #386 on:** 24 Oct 2016, 04:44 am »

Quote from: jmdesignz2 on 24 Oct 2016, 03:24 am

Did you notice any difference running balanced?
[/quotse]

Just the price of the cable

Maybe some gain or punch. I usally run the MW in low gain so as to save a $$. But I kick it up for real listening and there is a minor improvement. I run 94 db speakers.

Alan

Modified · « **Reply #387 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 08:49 pm »

"Hi is there a Gustard x20u Pro coming out soon?
Hi Steven. Yes,in will come out end of November. Best regards Kerwin Shenzhenaudio"

Any idea of this?

sruffle · « **Reply #388 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 02:06 am »

Quadman, thanks for your post. Very interesting to hear about your experiences with 256 and 512.

Out of curiosity, has anyone been getting DSD 256 from a Mac? I'm currently using Audirvana to upsample to DSD but may try out HQPlayer if it allows me to get to 256 or 512.

I was pretty surprised at the nice difference in SQ once I started upsampling to DSD. I can only imagine what 512 is like.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #389 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 03:50 am »

X20U Pro will have 2 of the new ESS 9028 DAC chips. $899.99 $30 more than the last one. Resonessence charges $1000 more for their updated DAC with two 9028s.....I like $30 better! Will be fun to see how much better sounding is the 9028 than the 9018. So far, no reports from anywhere?

Modified · « **Reply #390 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 06:16 am »

So, they will have two lines available, A20H with AKM flagship AK4497. For different sound quality tastes I guess...

ccklone · « **Reply #391 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 01:16 pm »

Quote from: sruffle on 28 Oct 2016, 02:06 am

. . . . Out of curiosity, has anyone been getting DSD 256 from a Mac? . . . . .

Hey Now,

Check out post #299. It shows my chain with an iMac playing DSD256 on the Gustard. Sounds terrific.

--
Finest kind,
Chris

mresseguie · « **Reply #392 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 04:28 pm »

Quote from: ccklone on 28 Oct 2016, 01:16 pm

Hey Now,

Check out post #299. It shows my chain with an iMac playing DSD256 on the Gustard. Sounds terrific.

--
Finest kind,
Chris

Chris,

Thank you for the reminder. Key posts seem to fall into the cracks after so many posts.

What have you got for your DIY streamer?

Michael

ccklone · « **Reply #393 on:** 29 Oct 2016, 12:23 am »

Quote from: mresseguie on 28 Oct 2016, 04:28 pm

. . . . What have you got for your DIY streamer?

Michael

Hey Now Michael,

I use an Intel NUC (Atom processor, Intel Thin Canyon NUC Kit DE3815TYKHE) with a variant of Mivera Audio's SuperServe OS with HQPlayer NAA installed. Only essential items are turned on. I was using a RPi2 before, but this NUC sounds amazing. Total cost was about $220 and some time configuring the NUC BIOS and USB 3.0 thumb drive. Rock solid and sounds very good. The best my digital has ever sounded.

--
Finest kind,
Chris

edit: corrected SuperStreamer to SuperServe, added Intel NUC model.

ccklone · « **Reply #394 on:** 29 Oct 2016, 12:32 am »

Deleted double post. Don't know why that happens from my iPhone(?).

sruffle · « **Reply #395 on:** 29 Oct 2016, 01:20 am »

Quote from: ccklone on 28 Oct 2016, 01:16 pm

Hey Now,

Check out post #299. It shows my chain with an iMac playing DSD256 on the Gustard. Sounds terrific.

--
Finest kind,
Chris

Thanks!

SlushPuppy · « **Reply #396 on:** 29 Oct 2016, 01:47 am »

Quote from: ccklone on 29 Oct 2016, 12:23 am

Hey Now Michael,

I use an Intel NUC (Atom processor) with a variant of Mivera Audio's SuperStreamer OS with
HQPlayer NAA installed. Only essential items are turned on. I was using a RPi2 before, but
this NUC sounds amazing. Total cost was about $220 and some time configuring the NUC BIOS
and USB 3.0 thumb drive. Rock solid and sounds very good. The best my digital has ever
sounded.

--
Finest kind,
Chris

Intel NUC's don't get a lot of attention around here, but I love my NUC5i7RYH with two Samsung 500GB solid state drives. I agree, best digital I've ever owned. I use Windows 10 with just about everything turned off. I don't own a Gustard, but wanted to give a thumbs up to using a NUC as a streamer.

martinr · « **Reply #397 on:** 29 Oct 2016, 01:52 am »

Don't know how many have experimented with the different DOP playback methods using Foobar or other players - last night I tried the various playback methods offered in Foobar and by far the PCM to DSD method SDM Type C (FP64) sounded the best. If you are using a different method (some instructions for different dacs recommend type "D"), I suggest you give type C a try. Instruments are better defined, soundstage is deeper and overall air around the instruments and vocals is much better than say type D. Of course this is with the Hal MS-3 server playing FLAC files- your experience might be different. (experiment at your own risk)

Just my 2 cents.

Happy Listening!

-Martin

Triplefun · « **Reply #398 on:** 29 Oct 2016, 06:41 pm »

I'm new to this forum but have had my x20u (mod1) for almost a year. Having identified DSD up sampling is the way to go I zeroed in on foobar with windows 10 on an old HP 8440p (compared to jriver). Dsd128 dop was good but I thought I could do better. I bought an u12 and realised dsd256 dop using i2s. I then started having stability issues with the xMOS driver and decided to look for something else. I was also conscious of what I presume to be jitter creating confusion on loud orchestral pieces so I decided to build a purpose built audio PC. Zeroed in on an intel dual core g4400 CPU with clock speed 3.4ghz. I also discovered the free daphile Linux audio os. The result has been a big improvement largely I think to the ability to drive the x20 USB with native dsd256 using the out of the box daphile xmos drivers. The cpu runs at 50%. Note you can load daphile from a USB stick on top of your current os as an initial trial. There is an issue with the current release with 24bit music which has been fixed in a beta. Daphile builds on the Logitech lms for which there exist android (orange) and iOS (ipeng) tablet control systems. My next upgrade will be to try an i5 6600t to lessen the load on the CPU!

sruffle · « **Reply #399 on:** 31 Oct 2016, 12:47 am »

Thanks for commenting on your experiences. Was 256 with the U12 a significant step up from 128 over DOP?

I'm curious enough because I have a U12 that is currently not in use. I'm wondering if inserting another piece in the chain will cause some loss of detail versus going straight into the USB on the X20. There is also the question of what type of HDMI cable to use (I have no idea if the quality of HDMI cables will impact the sound)