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Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: pardales on 20 Apr 2010, 03:17 am

Title: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: pardales on 20 Apr 2010, 03:17 am
Anyone hear or have one of these yet? The new Miniwatt N3 that is!  :thumb:



Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 20 Apr 2010, 03:36 am
I would like to take it for a spin.
But I doubt it.
It may sound really good tho.
 :wink:

 
 
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: JeffBrown on 20 Apr 2010, 03:40 am
I've got one...  (Review coming soon!)

As a small taste, it does all the S1 (original Miniwatt) does with more finesse and better tube upgrade options...

Jeff Brown
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: pardales on 20 Apr 2010, 03:57 am
I've got one...  (Review coming soon!)

As a small taste, it does all the S1 (original Miniwatt) does with more finesse and better tube upgrade options...

Jeff Brown

Cool!   :thumb:  Looking forward to your review.   :D
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 20 Apr 2010, 03:58 am
I've got one...  (Review coming soon!)

As a small taste, it does all the S1 (original Miniwatt) does with more finesse and better tube upgrade options...

Jeff Brown

One question Jeff:
Is it worth the premium?
(not refering to tubes)

or should we wait for the review?
 :wink:

Mariusz
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 20 Apr 2010, 05:01 am

(http://www.aloaudio.com/store/images/N3silver.jpg)
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: JeffBrown on 21 Apr 2010, 02:48 am
I kept the S1 so the review will be a direct comparison. 

worth the premiem will be in the eye of the beholder, but I do like it better!  I'm a bit sorry I bought the first one now...

Jeff Brown
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 21 Apr 2010, 03:02 am
That better ahh.  :wink:
If it had another input and an input switch, I would have been all over it.
I'll definitely keep an eye for used one or group buy.
Thanks for heads up Jeff and I'll check out that review as well.
 
 
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: bombadil111 on 27 May 2010, 09:51 pm
Hi Jeff,

Maybe I missed it . . . I assume you will post your review in an upcoming Affordable Audio issue?

I look forward to your review.  I also purchased the N3 . . . a couple months ago; apparently before is was even released for sale  :green:.

I have zero experience with tube amps.  But so far I am quite please in the sound . . . especially through my Hawthorne Audio open baffles. 



I kept the S1 so the review will be a direct comparison. 

worth the premiem will be in the eye of the beholder, but I do like it better!  I'm a bit sorry I bought the first one now...

Jeff Brown
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 31 May 2010, 07:10 am
I just hooked one up to some Horn Shoppe speakers.

DVD/VCR joke > Blue Jeans 6'ft Digital > PD DAC > Blue Jeans RCA > MiniWatt N3 > "White Lightening Wood Patio Cord > Horn Shoppe Module 1. All fed by special power conditioner that I make (extremely good, makes Audience Adepts stuff look like toy).

Extremely clinical sound. Tube upgrade would be nice for "warmth" (distortion), and some tone. Bass guitar is more than tight enough even in a system not broken in. I doubt the old diode mod would do any good for this unit. It does however have an ever present sound. It has a small hum or sorts that has nothing to do with the volume, input, or what it is plugged into. This might be due to the new transformer setup for 4/6/8ohm. It is not a bad sound but you can hear it in a quiet room. It is a little bizarre and I wish it was not there. However it is far from as bad as the radio station near my house that gives me darn near imaging on butt rock when nothing in my system is playing, just on.

This thing easily is as good as any nice 300B or McIntosh units I have heard with one small issue. The volume potentiometer is a joke. I would not buy the unit unless I knew I could replace it. I know what a bad pot sounds like because I have heard them a lot and then removed them. It is like a blanket over the music. Anyways that is the only real big drawback from a outrageously affordable power house of an amplifier. I would suggest one of these because it probably fits inside the unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SMT-Resistor-10K-Step-Attenuator-Volume-Control-Alps-/320494435731?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4a9ef4fd93

Anything else to say? It might lean slightly on the bright side (not in a bad way, just a sort of shiny metal way) but again easy tube upgrade. The transient response lacks world class detail, but come on it cost so little... big deal. One change and you are rocking serious gear. At 1/4 volume it is at decently good volume levels for listening on The Horn Shoppe. It provides plenty power for listening and rocking out.

Oh yeah results may vary because not everyone has power conditioning like I do. Well or actually like my grandfather has now (made the stereo for him). You could start with any of the old ones people where making for Squeezebox power supplies to start to get the same thing.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: roscoeiii on 31 May 2010, 06:37 pm
I have been wrestling with hum from a tube amp that is also present when the amp is only connected to the speakers and nothing else. It seems the first step to try is to get a "cheater plug" that converts a 3 prong plug to a 2 prong plug, taking the ground out of the equation. That's the cheap and easy first step. Not that it worked for me. I need to get back to finding other solutions. My amp was dead quiet through another system, so I think it is my power that is the problem. May be the case for your N3 as well.

I had not had this problem with other amps I have used in the room my tube amp was set up in. Gainclones were fine, silent as could be. Have you had other tube amps in this set-up? And was there hum then?
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 31 May 2010, 11:21 pm
That system never existed before yesterday.

Every other system that has any similarities lacks the hum this one has. I think it is just the Miniwatt N3...

My GC picks up the local radio station at about low whisper level, a lot of the time. It is a BAD radio station too, terrible music, nothing but butt rock.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: roscoeiii on 31 May 2010, 11:29 pm
And have you had tubes before? I never had speaker hum issues until my first tube amp. Just want to make sure we aren't blaming the amp for what might be AC power probs. I was blaming my tube amp for the buzz it produced until I heard it plugged into another system and found it to be dead quiet.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 1 Jun 2010, 03:24 am
Can not speak for N-3 and some hum issues reported by at least one user (there are many variables when it comes to source of hum) but as far as original S-1 performance is concern, self noise of that amp is better then most.
It's (S-1) comparable in that regard to my Decware monos.
 
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 2 Jun 2010, 12:16 am
I will have my father check the AC that my uncle put in when he goes back to setup the phono side.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 2 Jun 2010, 12:27 am
I almost forgot... without these speaker cables (I just put stripped ends into the speaker terminals and bananas into the amp) it would not sound half as good as it does. I just put them in my system... Let me tell you it was not a fad. Oh my god. Reference quality. Mine are not even burned in and I am floored. I would skip the IC's though I think. I think the specs on my Blue Jeans are superior. (my grandfathers stereo with the N3 has Blue Jeans too). It is amazingly how little money you need to get tens of thousands of dollars worth of clarity, if you just choose the right stuff. By the way most of the local stereo shop (RIP) that had $15k speakers and $20k worth of gear behind them sounded boring, boring, boring. I think just outright buying stuff is a waste of money without good power conditioning and the simple things that make the big difference like not playing with all the gemicky cables. For example a stepped attenuator will give you more of what you want than changing amps endlessly that all feature anything short of the $500 Alps unit. There are just bigger fish to fry in a system that people overlook.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 2 Jun 2010, 12:31 am
That's how I got it hooked up - no bananas, no nothing.
Banded copper wire, pushed in and bingo !!!
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 2 Jun 2010, 12:34 am
That's how I got it hooked up - no bananas, no nothing.
Banded copper wire, pushed in and bingo !!!

You use them too? They are the one and only thing I will buy from Wal-Mart because they are frankly as good as I can imagine it getting. You take a system from being a toy to impressing anyone especially the cheaper the system might be.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 2 Jun 2010, 02:31 am
You use them too? They are the one and only thing I will buy from Wal-Mart because they are frankly as good as I can imagine it getting. You take a system from being a toy to impressing anyone especially the cheaper the system might be.

I love to play some tune for friends ("audiophiles") and then reveal the total cost of the system. It makes my day....... and it never fails.   :icon_ :lol: :wink:
 
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: tawaundabomb on 5 Jun 2010, 04:28 am
   Like 1 poster said it does all the things the S1 does but better,but it plays much bigger more controlled and relaxed it has the widest soundstage of any amp I've heard,and the bass goes waaay deep,i would love to hear it alongside the Vaughn Audio Carina and Decware Mini Tori,its a very very special amp,hats off to the MiniWatt team.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 23 Jun 2010, 05:44 am
Sooooooooo I have been inside my Miniwatt N3 (formally my Grandfather who passed away two weeks ago or so...)

I bypassed the volume which is an Alps green and let me tell you not very balanced according to the old multimeter! It was pretty easy compared to somethings. I would recommend only doing it if you have a desoldering tool (not just a solder sucker). I still cut the supports for the pot.

Aside from that I am replacing the two outside 9 pin sockets because the one on the left had a bad connection that eventually burned the metal up until there was a 2 mm gap of air... Pain in the butt! Hopefully tomorrow I will get my new sockets. Luckily the thing is no lead free so soldering has been pretty easy. I have only had one ring to a bit misshapen on one socket but it is on the face and not the connection to the tracing from what I can tell (tracing appears to be connected to the ring internally not the outside lips). The tracing have not been lifting either.

There is nothing in the signal path pre-tube that I can tell, besides the pot you SHOULD REMOVE TO HAVE A TRUE HIGH END LOW PRICE AMPLIFIER. There are maybe two resistors in parallel pre-tube. There is a solder point to bridge the channels together or something? Not sure...

Diodes markings I can not read but the N3 features a T220 (probably something equivalent to MUR860s) instead of the junky ones found on the originals that people replaced, wait there are two smaller barrel axial ones but they look like vishays or something a bit more robust than the pictures from the original Miniwatt. One tantalum resistor for something... Two X2 capacitors for filtering that lead into two nice looking CMCs or something. A bunch of Nichicon capacitors including fancy metallic blue ones (Muse I am guessing) that appear to feed the actual circuits and not just power supply. Hm what else... some RIFA film caps... The wiring that is not in board is a translucent pale blue and is silver color underneath. There is almost none on the whole thing except around the plug and a couple half inch strands at the RCA ins. The RCA's are nothing to write home about but they feed into tracings that go around the outside edge to the front. You could bypass this with a shielded wire but with how quiet the amplifier is to begin I think you would be wasting time. In fact most the parts are nicer than ones found in a lot of more expensive equipment I have seen in (you know $3k+ range).

I think the guys really out did themselves. If there is room for improvement it is in the Tubes. Everything else would be sort of picking exotic parts. The only thing I can see would be putting in some Teflon film caps if the signal passes through them but there may not be any signal going through any capacitors... Overall once the pot is gone you got something straight magical... hm maybe put in a ceramic fuse in the back. One hell of a deal for an amplifier!

If you want to replace the pot well I doubt anything would fit in it. I think you can forget it.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: HAL on 17 Jul 2010, 02:26 pm
There is a nice review of the N3 in Stereophile this month by Sam Tellig. 

Sounds like something fun to have in a listening session!
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: mca on 17 Jul 2010, 03:22 pm
What kind of cheap and cheerful speakers can this amp drive?
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Mariusz on 17 Jul 2010, 03:56 pm
What kind of cheap and cheerful speakers can this amp drive?

Single driver designs like Tekton, Omega, DIY etc.
Speaker choice will depend on your budget, requirements and space.
DIY will always get you more for your money.

 :wink:
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: Folsom on 5 Aug 2010, 12:25 am
They drive horns well.

Got to tell you all that after awhile and replacing lots of parts... my MiniWatt 3 has horrible stupid oscillation that is one when it is on. It sounds great but the sound is a real hindrance in between tracks etc. I think the design might be too cheap for what it is trying to do. I am thinking about switching to something else but I am not sure what other amplifiers that cost piss (because I have no money at all, it will be a stretch to build anything) can replace it. I need the high output impedance for Ed's Horns. They just sound good that way, the bass is there, the magic is there. The F1 is a potential project but I would have to make my DAC have balanced outputs and buy a ridiculously expensive balanced volume control for my volume box.
Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: kku on 25 Jan 2011, 05:54 am
Miniwatt N3 is neat with infinite driver tube rolling options(1X 12ax7) but there are so many better(than N3) choices for that kind of money from China and HongKong(Miniwatt is also from HK, in case anyone didn't notice).

I have been doing my homework in shopping for tube amps under 400 dollars for almost a year now. Sinovt 6V6 amp can be bought for $450 shipped and it has features that can be found in premium gear such as use of a tube rectifier and a power choke. It also has very decent power and output transformers and high quality circuit parts for money. There are many other chinese brands out there but parts and build quality are much better than other similar priced chinese tube electronics like Yaqin, Xiangsheng and Meng.

This one link I've found while on diyaudio forums about a place selling Xiangsheng amps for under $310 shipped available with tubes like EL84, KT66, KT88, FU50 etc. There's a thread on diyaudio forums regarding FU50 tube version and many seem to be happy with it.

Title: Re: New Miniwatt N3?
Post by: wushuliu on 1 Feb 2011, 08:08 pm
I got a Miniwatt N3 recently to mess around with and compare w/ the ONIX SP3. So far you know, it sounds dang good! It's not quite enough power to drive my full range drivers but that aside the stock version has a very easy-going sound, warm and sweet. It does not have the clarity and open-ness of the Onix but it's only been in use a few hours. Vocals sound terrific though. Tactile and 3-dimensional. Of course I popped it open to see what's what but the space is tight and unlike DoS above I am NOT about to try and mod anything in there. The Onix sounds better as it should given the design and all the mods, but the N3 definitely wins on warmth and 'tubey-ness'.

As kku mentioned above there is an increase in lower-priced SE tube amps from China, but almost all seem to suffer from QC issues or need some changes under the hood to get their best. So they're more like quasi-kits in the end. The Xiangsheng Sweet Peach certainly looks nice and gets some good praise.