AVP32 - what specs do users want!

plivac · « **on:** 22 Nov 2007, 02:39 pm »

OK, so I am about to become an official owner of the MCH-3Se-c7 and the AVP17, but since the AVP17 is basically a slightly revised version of the AVP16 I was thinking to start a thread where users would comment of the type of specs they would like to see in the upcoming AVP32 - next year model.

This is in hope that the NuForce management takes our views into consideration and implements some of our desires.
I believe we want something to rival the Cary Cinema 11a with a price range $2k to $3k.

Here are some I came up with:

1. HDMI 1.3 passthrough (no need for video processing) w/ support of the new HD audio formats
2. Audissey Room Eq (can be a higher priced model - like a "pro" version)
3. Lip Sync control
4. Upconversion of Compressed Audio Formats (MP3s)
5. Dolby Headphone
6. Internet Radio (doesn't have to be WiFi)
7. Back-lit remote
8. Latest Audio DACs from Burr Brown or like
9. same chassis so as to match the MCH amps

cheers

Toka · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 05:03 pm »

Some good ideas! I don't know about the MP3 upconversion (doesn't seem to help all that much), but maybe there is room for improvement there. At the very least, a mini-jack (front panel?) for connecting a device is a good idea.

I'd want the ability to use stereo subs (summed to mono for those with one sub), and switchable "pure analog" pass-through (for using high-def players connected with RCAs, or any other analog source). Basically I like to see things uncomplicated, yet very well done...the less that can interfere with the signal, the better!

KrK · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 06:03 pm »

USB and Firewire ports.

Toka · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: KrK on 22 Nov 2007, 06:03 pm

USB and Firewire ports.

Ah yes, can't believe those slipped my mind.

Such provisions should be standard practice in the industry going forward.

EAmin · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Nov 2007, 10:41 pm »

I personally don't want a scaler, audyssey, etc. built into the Processor. I would rather buy them as separate components.

plivac · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Nov 2007, 02:25 pm »

I think having Audyssey inside the AVP is better than having a separate unit between the AVP and the amp.

The important thing is that you are able to bypass it if you want to.

As for a scalar I don't think it is necessary, but HDMI 1.3 passthrough is unless you plan for the player to do the audio encoding and use analog multichannel into the AVP.

Viclondon · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Nov 2007, 10:32 pm »

For me a very good version of the Audissey, HDMI 1.3 support and a more flexible bass management.
AFAIK if the Audyssey is a separate unit, there would be a double A/D D/A conversion which should be avoided at all costs. So Audissey must be in the pre/pro

Jim Swantko · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 03:17 am »

Lip sync - absolutely
Room EQ - absolutely
Upconversion - don't care
Headphone - don't care
Back-lit remote - Yep
Latest Audio DAC's - yep
Chassis - could not care less

What the answers above show me - is that the one most important aspect that hasn't been mention is "upgradeability".

Having owned a Meridian 861 - I loved the card based architecture which allowed me to pick and choose the features/upgrades I wanted.

I sincerely believe that any processor which isn't easily and quickly upgradeable is doomed from the get-go.

Make it

1. Sound good!!!
2. Be flexible
3. Be something I am comfortable INVESTING in for the long term

Hit those marks and you have a winner.

Toka · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Nov 2007, 05:16 am »

Color me crazy...but how about TWO sets of 7.1 analog inputs? Or maybe just 5.1...so you can throw in an Oppo player (for regular DVD's, multi-channel SACD and DVD-A, etc.) and also a high-def player with the uncompressed PCM audio. For me, at least, that would have more value than a few XLR's, especially if they aren't fully balanced/don't cover all channels.

SleeperSupra · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 03:57 pm »

I own the Nuforce AVP-16.

The processor does have very good sound but could, and should, sound a little better with future generations,

There are a few things that if addressed would add to its flexibility and make it a much more enjoyable unit to operate and more importantly to listen to.

I would really love to be able see what input and what surround mode I am in on the face of the unit at he same time, just some kind of recall button on the remote that will bring the display up would be nice.

The ability to independently control bass and treble on all channels, and having separate crossover settings for all channels would be great too.

I would also love to have more flexible bass management.

Room EQ

Latest DAC's

Back-lit remote

Dolby Headphone

Lip sync

A MC/MM phono stage in the preamp with the ability to fine tune settings for voltage and capacitance would be a nice touch too.

sac8d4 · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 06:04 pm »

Advanced X-over options and newest lossless audio codecs

bigdwest · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Dec 2007, 05:48 pm »

Nuforce might consider going the route Cary Audio is going with their new Cinema 11a and 11v.

The 11a is and audio only processor it will have 1 HDMI 1.3 input and 1 HDMI 1.3 output which will pass through video but handle all the bitstream audio (DD, DD Plus, Dolby TureHD, DTS, DTS 24/96, DTS HD, DTS Master Audio, DSD for SACD decoding) and 7.1 Multi-channel LPCM 24/192 audio, I personally think this is brilliant on their part.

With this type of strategy nuforce can focuse on doing what they do best… Audio.

Then for video switching, you could use the OPPO HDMI video switch or use something like a DVDO VP50, or manage all the video connections through your TV, or if nuforce wants to keep video switching on board they will need cross conversion from composite, s-video, and component to HDMI. This would be a must, as there are still some inputs such as the x-box 360 and Wii which need to be output to HDMI, but up-conversion and scaling would not be required as it can be managed by the display device or seperate scaler.

One nice feature would also be multiple memory settings for managing lip sync issues for each source type even if the source is being fed by and external switcher.

Another incredibly important feature would be all the setup and configuration menus displayed over HDMI as many of us now days don’t use composite, svideo, or component connections to our display devices. Another option would be to use an onboard LCD or OLED display for managing the setup process and displaying status information, such as volume level, surround mode selected, incoming audio signal details, etc.

If you can keep all the functions and sound quality of the current AVP17 but add the above and keep a price point in the $1500 to $2000 range you will have a winner for the ages to come.

I am of the opinion let different devices do what they do best. Use an outboard video processor for video switching and scaling, using the AVP for purest analog and digital audio duties, and then if a user wants a room EQ and correction system go with something like Audyssey Sound Equalizer.

I do think nuforces has an opportunity to partner on a few fronts. They might want to consider partnering with DVDO or Realta and have them create a nuforce branded version of their video processor/switcher to mate with the AVP for video switching duties. They might also want to partner with Audyssey to provide a branded version of the Sound Equalizer (a separate box) to mate with the AVP to provide room equalization. By re-branding those products, software, firmware upgrades, etc are off loaded to each of those providers. which allows nuforce to stay focused on what they do best. By having these rebranded products, it will allow customization of the AVP system for the customer base.

If a customer wants a complete “high end” system they can purchase the AVP, video processor and room correction/EQ. I might suggest a price point on the complete system less amps in the range of $3500 to $4000. If a customer just wants the AVP or AVP plus sound equalizer they could purchase that setup, I might recommend that AVP plus sound Equalizer be in the range of $2000 to $2500 range and then if a user wanted just the base AVP it would be at the current $1300 to $1500 range.

A side benefit by offering a complete package is a higher price point and margin point for the dealers, it might enhance the relationship they have with the dealers.

I would love to see nuforce offer a direct to consumer purchase experience like Oppo Digital. With a good branding and internet marketing manager I think nuforce could do some amazing things with a better profit margin as opposed to selling through dealers.

bigdwest · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 01:24 am »

Quote from: Viclondon on 26 Nov 2007, 10:32 pm

AFAIK if the Audyssey is a separate unit, there would be a double A/D D/A conversion which should be avoided at all costs. So Audissey must be in the pre/pro

After thinking about it I have to agree, Audyssey needs to be built in to avoid the additional A/D D/A conversion. If Integra can build a pre/pro with Audyssey pro builtin along with the all the other features for $1699 then I would hope nuforce might be able to do the same.

plivac · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 02:51 pm »

I spoke to people at Cary Audio, before I purchased the AVP 17 and they said that in order to get the HD audio formats you will need the 11v which takes in the HDMI 1.3 and then sends the signal via proprietary connection to the 11a - for a total of $6,000....

I like the AVP 17, now I really hope they will work on a good update with the AVP "32"

I am thinking on starting a poll with desirable features....

bigdwest · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Dec 2007, 02:30 am »

Quote from: plivac on 28 Dec 2007, 02:51 pm

I spoke to people at Cary Audio, before I purchased the AVP 17 and they said that in order to get the HD audio formats you will need the 11v which takes in the HDMI 1.3 and then sends the signal via proprietary connection to the 11a - for a total of $6,000....

I like the AVP 17, now I really hope they will work on a good update with the AVP "32"

I am thinking on starting a poll with desirable features....

There have been some interesting updates with the Cary Cinema 11 recently, For the owners of the current Cary Cinema 11 they will need the Cinema 11v (video processor) it will not have any on board decoding for Dolby Digital +, or Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD/Master audio. It will only pass a lossless decoded multi channel PCM signal via the high speed data link between the Cinema 11 and 11v. There is to be a new Cinema 11 called the Cinema 11a it will have a 1 in 1 out HDMI 1.3 connection. The new Cinema "11a" will have built in the necessary decoders for DD+, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD/MasterAudio. It has been a major discussion on the Cinema 11 thread at AVSforum.com. Some of the currently Cinema 11 owners are feeling a little gilted about the news.

plivac · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Dec 2007, 07:23 pm »

The people who by NuForce products, in my opinion, would have no trouble paying $1000-$1500 extra ($3000) for a decent Pre/Pro.

Although, depending on the volume of HT business that NuForce does - this might not be economically feasible for the company if it wanted to do the bundled product correctly, i.e. tons of testing on the various facets of the Pre/Pro.

As for me - if they manage to beef up the AVP17 - I wouldn't think twice about getting the upgrade...

plivac · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Dec 2007, 07:38 pm »

Regarding the 11a - I am skeptical that they will make it passthrough HDMI 1.3 and process HD audio at the same time since 11 & 11v would become obsolete, unless you wanted to pay $3000 for a video processor...

Of course, they could charge $4000 for it...

Toka · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 03:49 pm »

I think $3K is the ceiling for a new AVP...lower would be better of course.

With some of the things companies like Emotiva are doing it'll be an uphill battle to go any higher, but I'm confident the NuForce team has some cool ideas in store.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Jan 2008, 09:29 am »

We like to keep it at $2K. It is still too early to tell.

phoenix_rising · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jan 2008, 11:14 am »

Hi there,

As a prospective customer here is what i would want:

WIFI or Hardwired Internet capability
so I can have the capability to stream music from a PC

Lip sync
Must have feature

HD Format Support
Must support all HD codecs. Must Have.

Room EQ
Trinnov is superior to Auddessy and would be my preference. It is a must have feature.

Upconversion
yes upconvert everything but make it defeatable

Headphone
don't care

Subwoofers
Support for more than one subwoofer please, we are audiophiles and many have stereo subs

Remote
Would prefer that you use an RF remote so the equipment could be hidden, a good way of dealing with remotes is to do a deal with one of the remote control companies so it is just a face plate change and you can just use one of their standard programmable remotes

Latest Audio DAC's
yep, the higher resolution the better and Burr Brown please

Chassis
could not care less

Video
Would do what Cary did and use a separate video box or just not offer one at all, there are plenty of video only boxes out there. Just do a deal and rebadge one.

I would not bother with a card based system. Technology is moving too fast for it to be of any real use. The bus itself would be outdated in a few years anyway. Just build the best processor for audio at a reasonable cost.

Phoenix