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Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: monsterbill on 1 May 2011, 07:28 am

Title: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 1 May 2011, 07:28 am
I'm looking for a cheap (~<$500) integrated tube amp to use with my Omega 3Rs in a nearfield arrangement. 

I tried the Miniwatt N3, but unfortunately I got a flawed used one with a bad hum through the speakers.  Otherwise I generally liked what I was hearing, and I'm not sure how much of the amps other flaws were due to the fact I had a faulty unit.

What else is out there worth trying?  Jolida FX10 good with Omegas?  Used Jolida 102B?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Zero on 1 May 2011, 10:28 am
It pains me like hell to do this, but I may have something that may interest you.  A Vista Audio i34 integrated, a nice Serbian piece that that delivers 35wpc of EL-84 love. After trying numerous sub 2k tube integrated's in my system throughout the years, I feel like this piece is the best 'all arounder' to my ears, whether it's powering affordable speakers from Totem Acoustic, or expensive rock solid behemoths from Wilson Audio.

Anyways, it's worth researchin'. If you find that it may tickle your fancy, give me a shout. I should be able to offer it for a bit under your proposed budget.

Cheers
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: eclein on 1 May 2011, 10:41 am
These are like $260 and I have first version and this one is on its way, a nice quality, excellent sounding piece of gear.
 Musical Paradise MP-301MK2

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=46210)
 Here is a link if you want to check it out closer:
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=75
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: JLM on 1 May 2011, 11:13 am
If I were in the market for a cheap tube amp to run with efficient speakers, I'd run to this (a bit over your budget):

http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84C.htm

Hand built in the U.S. since 1998 with lifetime warrantee, it images like you wouldn't believe, is NOT syrupy, great tonality and bass control, class A (zero feedback) design, no circuit boards, loves low impedance loads, tubes are cheap to replace, self-biasing, sound quality on par with $10,000 amps, can be bridged to act as a monoblock, and is actually a two input integrated.

I think if you look through the Omega postings, you'll find several Omega owners that happily use Decware amps.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Quiet Earth on 1 May 2011, 02:06 pm
loves low impedance loads

Do you know if the Decware amplifiers prefer a 4 ohm load, or has the new "Zen" circuit eliminated that issue?
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: tabrink on 1 May 2011, 03:29 pm
 :D
I would think that any of Seth Krinsky's Virtue offerings would be an awesome for this application. They do not have any load restrictions, optional tube buffer  and with the new matching DAC coming out they are certainly worth the time to take a look.  I use Virtue amps with Omega gear and love the combination.
Title: Musical Paradise vs. Miniwatt
Post by: monsterbill on 1 May 2011, 03:55 pm
Anyone heard both the Musical Paradise and the Miniwatt?
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: JLM on 1 May 2011, 04:02 pm
Do you know if the Decware amplifiers prefer a 4 ohm load, or has the new "Zen" circuit eliminated that issue?

I've not kept up very well with Decware developments in the past few years, so I don't know what you mean by "the new 'Zen' circuit," but the Decware link above says: "Power output:  2.3 watts  RMS into 4 ohms, 5 watts RMS into 8 ohms bridged, Power increases as ohms decrease, Stable into 1 ohm speaker loads."  So for this model at least it looks like the classic Decware behavior.


For $2495 the Decware Torii Mk III has all the bells and whistles with more power for use with nearly any speakers.   :thumb:

http://www.decware.com/newsite/TORII.htm
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: eclein on 1 May 2011, 04:26 pm
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/536681/new-info-musical-paradise-mp-301-mk2

Above is a thread from head-fi
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Hank Murrow on 1 May 2011, 05:50 pm
Suggest looking into the Bottlehead SEX kit...... great soundstage, detail, and bass; with a LOT of support for builders and modifiers on their Forum.

Cheers, Hank

http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=44&rn=433&action=show_detail
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: morganc on 1 May 2011, 08:40 pm
Miniwatt?   A great little tube amp....used very inexpensive!
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: almonduck on 1 May 2011, 10:46 pm
I'm really happy with my Onix H34 integrated.  Nicer tubes make a big difference.  I've seen them used for $500, but they usually go for a bit more.  Maybe the less expensive Onix SP3 would fit the bill.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 2 May 2011, 01:58 am
You will never hear anyone dis a 2a3 SET amp. The usual comment is "I've never heard a 2a3 I didn't like" or "there's no such thing as a bad 2a3". So here's an excellent example under your price point.

I drive my Zu's with a Dared 2a3 and it's a marriage made in heaven.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SV-2A3-Class-Valve-Tube-Integrated-Amplifiers-/260775279109?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb76afa05
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: srb on 2 May 2011, 04:04 am
You will never hear anyone dis a 2a3 SET amp.So here's an excellent example under your price point.
http://cgi.ebay.com/SV-2A3-Class-Valve-Tube-Integrated-Amplifiers-/260775279109?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb76afa05 (http://cgi.ebay.com/SV-2A3-Class-Valve-Tube-Integrated-Amplifiers-/260775279109?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb76afa05)

monsterbill, where are you located?  If you're in 120V country, just make sure that if you do order something like this from an overseas vendor, that it is 120V also.  This particular one says "Input Power: 220V"
 
Steve
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 2 May 2011, 11:03 am
OK, here is the same 2a3 with a choice of voltage.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bowei-2A3C-Hi-End-Class-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-BK-/320687967061?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaa7e0b55
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: rockadanny on 2 May 2011, 11:58 am
I just happen to have a brand new, small, inexpensive hybrid tube integrated for sale, Napa Acoustic NA-208. 25wpc with a 6N1 tube per channel and inputs for CD, iPOD, and Aux. Stainless steel chassis with heavy aluminum face plate - very cool looking. Sounds terrific with the speakers that come with it as a package. Folks who heard this system at AXPONA felt the same - sounded great. All for UNDER $500 with shipping! See my ad:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94143.msg939234#msg939234 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94143.msg939234#msg939234)
Title: 2A3
Post by: monsterbill on 2 May 2011, 04:46 pm
Thanks for all the input!

Re: 2A3 amps, aren't replacement tubes expensive? Also, I'd get another Chinese amp, but aren't you guys wary of buying from Chinese distributors? What do I do if I get another hummer like the last one? (Get your mind out of the gutter--the amp was humming.)
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: rockadanny on 2 May 2011, 05:01 pm
What do you consider as bad hum? Can you hear it three feet away from the speakers?
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Hank Murrow on 2 May 2011, 05:01 pm
RE: 2A3 replacement costs. I got a nice pair of RCA blackplates for $70, so that seemed fine, and the tubes sound grand. I am thinking about EML meshies, but they ARE pricey!

Cheers, Hank
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=46253)
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 2 May 2011, 05:33 pm
Over the past few years I've bought four tube amps from Chinese ebay merchants without any problems and absolutely no hummers in this group: Yaqin, Bada tube hybrid, APPJ ( MiniWatt ), and the Dared.

I sold the Yaqin and Bada but kept the APPJ/MiniWatt which I use to drive some BL horns. 

The 2a3 tubes are cheap compared to 300B's.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 2 May 2011, 05:39 pm
Re: miniwatt hum, I could hear it 3 ft away (my listening position) with the music playing at medium levels. It was the amp, and not the power or source, since I tried it with multiple steups in different places. From the boards I learned that a number of N3s have this problem. If I got another one, I would only buy new, and request that the guys at ALO Audio run it before they send it off.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 2 May 2011, 09:44 pm
The original four tube MiniWatt S1 had no such problem and is still sold on ebay for $200 under the name APPJ. The glowing 6moons review even remarked at how dead silent it was with HE speakers.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 2 May 2011, 11:48 pm
Re: Miniwatt, I've only seen the complaints with the N3, and then only a minority. I think I just happened to get one of the bad ones.

Re: matching with Omegas, I appreciate all the comments--I have a lot to look into! Are there certain styles (eg, push pull vs SET) or tube compliments that work especially well with Omegas in a nearfield, low volume set up? I presumed that I should be looking at low-ish powered SET, but could this mean a greater risk of a noisier amp? I have no idea which tubes would work, other than Poultrygeist's recommendation for 2a3 and some comments on this board that Omegas like EL84. Thoughts?

Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 3 May 2011, 12:32 am
Push pull amps as a rule offer more power at the expense of odd order harmonics. They generally don't have the detailed sweetness of an SET. Omegas, being high efficiency speakers are often paired with low power single ended amps.

Here's an interesting hand made SE amp that should work well with the Omegas.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Davidyee-Audio-SE-stereo-tube-amp-13DR7-13DE7-hand-made-/300547806754?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item45fa0b9622
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: markjv on 3 May 2011, 03:45 pm
Here's another inexpensive SET amp:

http://teconaudio.com/model_55.html

It's had some positive reviews.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 4 May 2011, 03:41 am
Thanks a bunch for all the input, guys.  I'm really fortunate to have found all you tube/Chi Fi connoisseurs!

I just ordered the Musical Paradise that Ed recommended.  I was prepared to spend more, but I was persuaded by how supportive the manufacturer is to his clients, the quality of the parts (versus Miniwatt) and the unanimously positive chatter on the boards (here, head-fi, diyaudio, a Canadian audio site, some others).  Also, if it works out I'll have a bonus headphone amp *and* enough money leftover to buy a set of Senn cans.

Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 4 May 2011, 11:47 am
The MP sounds like a good choice. Let us know your impressions.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: eclein on 4 May 2011, 01:39 pm
My MP301MK2 is out for delivery today---yipppeee!!!! :lol: :lol: :rotflmao: :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: unityaudio.ca on 4 May 2011, 07:16 pm
These are like $260 and I have first version and this one is on its way, a nice quality, excellent sounding piece of gear.
 Musical Paradise MP-301MK2

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=46210)
 Here is a link if you want to check it out closer:
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=75

I'd vote for that as well.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 4 May 2011, 08:47 pm
Are there any professional reviews of the MP amps?
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: knut_the_viking on 4 May 2011, 09:54 pm
Here's another inexpensive SET amp:

http://teconaudio.com/model_55.html

It's had some positive reviews.

I have one. It's my first and only tube amp (so far) but I like it.
Using it with my new Tekton Lore speakers for now.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: eclein on 4 May 2011, 10:15 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=46307)
 
 Built like tanks!!!!!
 Sound excellent, fast, very detailed but non-fatiguing, not sweet-more like correct, This isn't even broken in and it sounds very good to me.
 Issues: 1) They run HOT!!!
            2) Headphone gain is too high for some: ie Grado, etc...there is a fix, when ordering let them know your can preference.
      This amp has been out less then a week, mine is running at the 6 hour mark and I'm lovin it!!! :thumb:
             
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Quiet Earth on 5 May 2011, 02:49 am
They run HOT!

Just out of curiosity.....  Does any specific part run hot like the ac power transformer, the tubes, or one area of the case? Or do you mean that there is a lot of heat coming from the total package? (I realize there is a lot of stuff crammed into that little dude.)

Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: guest1632 on 4 Jun 2011, 01:03 pm
Just out of curiosity.....  Does any specific part run hot like the ac power transformer, the tubes, or one area of the case? Or do you mean that there is a lot of heat coming from the total package? (I realize there is a lot of stuff crammed into that little dude.)

Hi all,

i know I am coming late to this game, but a couple of tube amps should be looked at. I have forgotten the website, but if you google spud amplifiers, you are sure to find it. It is a kit for a few hundred bucks, and what I read, it is another great little amp.

Another way to go is the stuff from Brucefrom Transcendentsound OTL amps. He has just come out with a new model. He's the same guy who produces the "Grounded Grid" Preamp. You either like it or hate it. The amp itself is $700 and $350 for the tubes. Something like 10w per channel. His OTL stuff is supposed to be really good, spooky good.

Just to make things clear, I don't own any of the tube amps.

Ray Bronk
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: eclein on 4 Jun 2011, 01:27 pm
Just out of curiosity.....  Does any specific part run hot like the ac power transformer, the tubes, or one area of the case? Or do you mean that there is a lot of heat coming from the total package? (I realize there is a lot of stuff crammed into that little dude.)
Sorry I didn't see this until now- The tubes run hot and the big black thing in the back was very hot but has since cooled down. The box looking thing was getting so hot I couldn't leave my hand on it for more then a few seconds. Since I switched up the tubes its much better all around as far as heat, and any hum that was initially there for a bit. I swapped out Mullard EL34 for the stock tubes in the back and have the stock tubes in the front positions as shipped. I don't know very much about tubes and amps etc. but I know what sounds good to me and this does.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 4 Jun 2011, 08:50 pm
So...I got the MP 301 MKII, but I didn't like it and returned it.  Too dark...sounded like my speakers had a cold.  Manufacturer said it was because Omegas suck (Boooo!), but I had the same impression using it on my other two speakers (Klipsch Heresy III and VMPS RM30M).  It sounded better when I dropped in a more lively (tinned copper) power cable, but still not for me.

It wasn't a bad amp, and wonder if I would've liked it more on less efficient (less noise) or brighter speakers. 

More to the point of this circle, I think Musical Paradise's manufacturer is right in that the Omega and the MP are a bad match. 

The Miniwatt was a much better match, and I recommend it for folks with Fostex drivers.  I found myself accidentally staying up late to listen it, which I usually don't do with this desktop second system.  The MW was a bit rich to the point of coloration, but I kinda liked that for low res source materials. A trade off for this richness was that it would get pretty muddled with even moderately complex passages.  It did really well with extended frequencies. The volume pot is sort of crappy and I suspect is responsible for some graininess. The unit I had wasn't working properly, so I don't know if the shortcomings would be as apparent on a good one.

I'm now thinking I'll step it up to the Dared 2a3c, unless my checkbook says get another N3.   
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Canada Rob on 9 Jun 2011, 05:58 am
The Omega Super 3R and the Decware SE84 SET in any of it's configurations from 1996 to the present will do your Omegas a treat.  One of my favourite combos for the near field is the SE84C+, or SE84 Select with the Omega Super 3i (which is the replacement for the Super 3R).
All Decware amps are hand made one at a time in Peoria, Illinois with American components and come with a lifetime warranty and a 30 day trial.  The SE84 SET is an icon in the audio underground and has had a cult following for years.  Bump up your budget from the Chinese stuff a few hundred bucks and buy something you won't likely want to upgrade.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Poultrygeist on 9 Jun 2011, 10:56 am
"The MiniWatt reminded me of crystalline, fast as a whip, lit up EL84 Decware"
                           
                                                     - Srajan

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/miniwatt/miniwatt.html

Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Louis O on 18 Jun 2011, 10:01 pm
Hi Canada Rob,

The decware has always had great synergy with the speakers.

Hi Srajan,

I agree the miniwatt is amazing and great value too.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 22 Jun 2011, 10:07 pm
Louis,
Thanks for weighing in!  Do you like the Decware Zen triode (SE84c+) for your fostex speakers?

  I got scared off early on based on the 1.8 wpc (into 8 Ohm) rating, but maybe this was foolish considering I'm only sitting 1 meter from my speakers.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: acresm22 on 22 Jun 2011, 11:50 pm
Monsterbill,

If you're still thinking of trying a 2A3 SET, you might want to give Tony at Handmade Audio a call. I had his Basic 2A3 several years ago and liked it a lot...a nice dose of 2A3 SET magic for not too much money.

http://www.hndme.com/storeampstogo.html
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: monsterbill on 25 Jun 2011, 11:30 pm
I have no experience with this amp, but for the sake of completeness, this is to mention an amp that usually comes up when someone asks "which tube amp" for the Omega fostex (and maybe hemp?) speakers:  the Almarro A205A in either the original or "MKII" renditions. It's a SEP with one 12ax7 and 2 EL84s and goes for about ~$900 new or <$600 used. 

Louis and others have oft commented on the great synergy between Omegas and single-ended EL84 designs, and it used to be common for dealers to demonstrate the Almarros and the Omegas together.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Louis O on 1 Jul 2011, 10:12 pm
Hi monsterbill,

I agree with the almarro. I have owned them myself.

Dyna ST35 is a great one too, but you need some sort of a pre amp with it.

Thanks,
Louis

Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: yeldarb on 14 Jul 2011, 07:42 pm
Don't know if they are still available but my Norh SE9 has been a very nice little amp.  NOS el34 and 12ax7, some Herbie's and an upgraded power cord made it even better.  9 watts per times 2.
Title: Re: Cheap Tube Integrated Recommendation
Post by: Louis O on 17 Sep 2011, 12:06 am
Belive it or not I have revisited a very inexpensive Class AB Solid state and it sounds really good, but has a funny name.

I had one of the first years ago and just got a new one. Funny name, but sounds good.
The Big Joe amp 1.3

8 watts and tiny goes for around $250

Thanks,
Louis