Got my RM30s... hot da*n!

jonbee · « **on:** 28 Nov 2006, 04:02 am »

Got the rm30Cs. Piano rosewood, auricaps, OXO, BH5. Even without the benefit of fine tuning or extended breakin, they are simply perfection. The upgraded caps seem to smooth out the sound, most noticeable on horns, and the background is blacker so the depth cues are clearer. More top end detail and focus, too. The bass seems tighter, maybe the cabinets upgrades? Anyway, me and my wife are very pleased. We have very fine furniture, and these fit right in. They are simply the best sounding and looking speakers I've seen and heard. I think they are $10-15k contenders without a doubt. Bravo, Brian!
I'll be writing a good deal more about them in a few days.
Any one tried Bybees on the RM series? I've got some that I may play with.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 05:21 pm »

Your original pair were Bud Bailey cabinets finished in Indian Rosewood.

The mls cabinets have thicker front, back, and bottom baffles and extra bracing. Their veneer is called Plantation Rosewood. We apply the piano veneer finish, a glaze which requires extensive hand-buffing, ourselves.

John Casler · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: jonbee on 28 Nov 2006, 04:02 am

Got the rm30Cs. Piano rosewood, auricaps, OXO, BH5. Even without the benefit of fine tuning or extended breakin, they are simply perfection. The upgraded caps seem to smooth out the sound, most noticeable on horns, and the background is blacker so the depth cues are clearer. More top end detail and focus, too. The bass seems tighter, maybe the cabinets upgrades? Anyway, me and my wife are very pleased. We have very fine furniture, and these fit right in. They are simply the best sounding and looking speakers I've seen and heard. I think they are $10-15k contenders without a doubt. Bravo, Brian!
I'll be writing a good deal more about them in a few days.
Any one tried Bybees on the RM series? I've got some that I may play with.

The "tighter bass" is not an Aural Illusion.

The improvement is brought about by the cabinet Brian mentioned, and the internal application of BH5 (SR71 package).

jonbee · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 07:36 pm »

I think one of the best features of all makes no sound- the beautiful cabinets. Why so? Because my domestic perfectionist wife sees the looks as so much an upgrade over any other speakers I've had, that she's good about spending the $ on that basis alone. Her words, upon seeing the piano rosewood: "These don't look like speakers- they look like sculptures!" So I've gotten a free ride on the sound upgrade. So, Brian, I won't be sending her to Hawaii as a consolation prize- we're both going in January! That's a win-win around my house.

jonbee · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Nov 2006, 09:06 pm »

Now the next question- how does one maintain/protect the glaze? What is its composition? Is there a recommendation on a polish or wax for it?

jonbee · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Nov 2006, 05:58 pm »

I spent a second evening, now that delivery and initial setup is done, just listening to lots of different material.
They clearly need more adjustment, as the mid-treble sounds too recessed to me, but I feel like I'm coming to an epiphany with these.
Comparing them to other speakers I've owned, in terms of things like lack of coloration, focus, depth, soundstaging, etc. is inadequate. They are at or near the top of the heap in all those areas, but the sum of these is greater than the parts.
For me, there's a quantum shift at work here.
The net result is a presentation of the recorded event that seems divorced from the speakers; it is absolutely unlike anything I've heard in my home. My old Apogee Divas probably were the closest; because they were 6'h x 2.5'w dipoles they created an enormous sound field which the RM30s can't match.
However, the RM30s have decidely lower coloration overall, with smoother response which creates a floating image around the location of the speakers that is photographic and holographic. I've not heard anything like it.
BTW, this is with a 42" tv on equipment racks in the middle, with the speakers 4" from the back wall! I can hardly imagine how they would sound in an optimum room setup.

Still, ultra low coloration and faithfulness to the event is not something that everyone will prefer. There's no "glow", "warmth" or "body" created by the speakers, just truth.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Nov 2006, 06:38 pm »

Actually it's rather easy to change the tonal balance of the 30's.

Start with the level controls set at 12 o'clock for the mid and 1 o'clock for the treble. If you are unsure which control is which, turn one of them fully counterclockwise and the respective drivers will shut off.

Now locate the passive radiator in the front of the bottom of the cabinet which you saw when you attached the bases. There is an adjustment mass of putty in the center. Adjust only the front PR, the back PR is not accessible during play. Reach in and remove a fingernail full of putty from the PR, about the size of a large speck of dust. Listen and if you hear an improvement in clarity, you are going in the right direction. Now do the same on the other speaker. Again, if you hear an improvement, return to the first speaker and repeat. You usually will not have to do this more than once or twice per side.

Once the bass damping with the putty is optimized, adjust the level controls one notch at a time. There are ten control windings between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock on the controls, you can feel the wiper move from one winding to the next. Turning up the midrange one notch on one speaker only might give you all the sparkle you need.

Same is true for the treble. The key is making small changes (from 12 o'clock to 12:05, for example), not large changes (12 o'clock to 1:30, for example).

Between the putty and level controls you'll get the results you want.

jonbee · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 08:34 pm »

I posted a review over on AA:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/239783.html

Adjustments continue, but they are an e-ticket ride all the way. BTW, I found biwiring to
be a big improvement.

John Casler · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 10:45 pm »

Quote from: jonbee on 3 Dec 2006, 08:34 pm

I posted a review over on AA:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/239783.html

Adjustments continue, but they are an e-ticket ride all the way. BTW, I found biwiring to
be a big improvement.

Great review Jonbee!

I just had the opportunity to sit for 30 minutes and listen to my system, and after not having time to hear it for the last week or so, I am floored.

Just improved a "tweak" I have been using just a little bit, and it is great.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 01:46 am »

Thanks for the review. It's tough to get people's attention over on AA and your review should help a lot.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Dec 2006, 06:06 pm »

Jonbee:

You're one of the few who has heard the stock caps (Erse Pulse and Jantzen Crosscap polyprops) side by side with the Auricap upgrades. Please post your impressions.

jonbee · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Dec 2006, 04:55 pm »

A bit of minutia:
I'm getting pretty close to optimum on adjustments. I removed a small sized piece of caulk from each front PR (a bit smaller than a BB), and ended up with the pots at 1:30 mid, 2:00 highs.

I think close wall placement boosts the lower range, which necessitates more upper range. I suspect out from the wall the stock settings would be right on (and overall sound would be better as well).

I've found that they definitely sound tighter and more focused at the bottom without the little woofer grills, and bi wiring was a huge improvement over single wiring. I also added Bybees to the mids and tweeter inputs. I'm not sure about the sonic effect of them (I know they improved the Thiels), but since they sound terrific overall, I'll leave them in.

I use my Carver sub (chosen strictly for its' size) judiciously, x'd over at 30 Hz. (36 db/octave) and it adds good weight to the bottom, and blends surprisingly well. The Carver certainly goes deep, but is not very tight if you x them over above 40 hz. or so. Also, the distortion rises rapidly with output, so headbangers should also avoid them. Certainly anyone who has the room should go with a VMPS sub, which I think are the cat's pajamas (if you have a large cat).

All these things take time to adjust. Some may think its a chore, but I enjoy it, and the result is much better than the "one size fits all" approach that most speakers offer. The balance is now very good, and the total sound is entrancing.

In fact the sound is better than I had any right to expect. Listening to older test music, which I used years ago to set up my Divas, I realize that there is even more detail at the back of the soundstage than the Divas had, which I didn't expect at all. Also, the driver integration is better and coloration is lower. The Divas (and all my Apogees) had a trace of metallic coloration that I could never get rid of. The RM30s with the Auricaps have none of that at all.

My apologies for all the public drooling I'm doing these days, but it's been a very long time since this old 'phile has had so much fun.

jonbee · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Dec 2006, 05:22 pm »

Sorry- I forgot to post about the caps.
I did some direct comparisons between the stock capped xover and the Auricapped. The most immediate impression is one of smoothness- there is less edge with the Auris. With that there is also a sense of improved refinement and naturalness overall- something like going from a digital photo or video to good film. It seems more relaxed and grain free. This effect is not too subtle, IMO.
I like to listen to well recorded massed big band horns as one severe test. My fave recording for this is Diane Schuur with Count Basie Orch. on GRP cd and on dvd. There is a terrific amount of energy on crescendos, but as when you hear them live, there is an abundance of detail- a trumpet has the top end edge, but also a burnished sound from the bell of the instrument. Ohter horns have their own signatures. Even live close up, where the SPL can hurt your ears, you still hear these micro-harmonics in balance. Few speakers can reproduce this effect properly, particularly on massed horns. Frequently you get a screeching mixture, as if all the instrument have gone into a blender. Even very expensive speakers usually fail at this test.
The RM30 with the stock caps did pretty well- they kept the instrumental separation quite well, but there was a preponderance of the upper harmonics that made the overall effect a bit screechy.
With the Auricaps, the balance was perfect. All the energy, all the detail and harmonic subtones were there, but the harmonic balance was right on. In fact the best I've ever heard on this test.
Other recordings also simply sounded more refined and easier.
I'm very glad to have made the upgrade. I can afford it, and to me these speakers are so close to perfection that it only makes sense to go the extra when real benefits are there. As I've not heard the TRTs, I can't say how they sound different, but I'd be surprised if there's not some diminishing returns setting in.
I feel the same about the SR71. If you can afford it, extra cabinet damping is a good idea, when dealing with such large cabinets.
The base model RM30 is still a category killer, and if that's as far as you can stretch the $ you'll still be way ahead of any competitively prived speaker, IMO.
For me, though, the upgrades were very welcome improvements.

warnerwh · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Dec 2006, 07:41 pm »

I'm very happy to see that you're able to dial in your speakers and that you're patient. I've got a feeling you're going to be surprised how much performance you can wring out of those. I had mine to a point I didn't think they could be any better but I tweaked away anyway. Over a period of months the tiny little adjustments I've made have totalled up to a large refinement.

You haven't said if you have room treatments or what your room is like. If you can get away with it and haven't already room treatment will take your RM 30's to another level or more. Honestly it amazes me how few audiophiles realize how much of an improvement room treatments and bass traps can add. Maybe it's because sound waves are invisible or something.

It's very nice that you're enjoying the sound quality so much. With any system optimum performance requires tweaking and I enjoy it too. It's pretty hard to not enjoy when you can keep making improvements so people that complain about it must be newish to our hobby and/or lazy.

Thank you for the enjoyable reading.

jonbee · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Dec 2006, 08:33 pm »

Unfortunately, I live in a highrise condo in downtown Seattle. At about $600/square foot, space is at a premium, so my 19.5X16.5 ft living room is home to stereo, home theater, and lots of fine furniture. Conventional sound treatments are out, and near back wall placement is a must. The adjustability of the RM30s is a huge plus, but it has its limits. I'm grateful that they sound as good as they do. The room is not terrible, as large artworks on walls do break reflections up a little. Also it is shaped so that I can use long wall placement, with about 5 feet to each side of the speakers. Rear wall effects do have a negative effect on things, but that's true with any speakers I use in there.
I know I'll be playing with them for a long time; my 626s didn't stabilize until about 300 hours were on them. Still, I'm loading discs and smiling all the way.

OTL · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 03:45 am »

Quote from: jonbee on 6 Dec 2006, 05:22 pm

......I like to listen to well recorded massed big band horns as one severe test. My fave recording for this is Diane Schuur with Count Basie Orch. on GRP cd and on dvd. There is a terrific amount of energy on crescendos, but as when you hear them live, there is an abundance of detail- a trumpet has the top end edge, but also a burnished sound from the bell of the instrument. Ohter horns have their own signatures. Even live close up, where the SPL can hurt your ears, you still hear these micro-harmonics in balance. Few speakers can reproduce this effect properly, particularly on massed horns. Frequently you get a screeching mixture, as if all the instrument have gone into a blender. Even very expensive speakers usually fail at this test.

Hmmmm....very well said. My RM30M's sound very much as you've described. Horns at full cry are certainly not polite, but the underlying harmonics should be present, pure, distinct and immediate. In my living room a trumpet is NOT polite, snare is crisp and chesty when thwacked...swishing when brushed. Harmonics played on an acoustic guitar hang and linger but not too long (aka, the romantic, bipolar Apogee Ribbon), and bongos, bass and organ as well as Ella, Witherspoon, Elvis, etc,...occupy a wide, deep space in front of me. I love the realisim and how the RM30's handle extreme dynamics without strain. It is so statisfying to have my jaw dropped again and again by MY stereo. (Give Freddie Hubbard's "Red Clay" a spin to show off all the above. Betcha play it twice, and louder the second time)

As you say, placement is critical to maximum performance, but the putty and the pots really do provide a wide range of options. What the hell would one do if these adjustments weren't available? (A really cool demo is to turn up the tweet' pot while someone listens....you've gotta watch their head tilt back as with 3,4 or 5 clicks they follow the image height move up a foot or so. Now that's a tweek!)

Big B's RM30's ROCK! Glad to hear that you're enjoying yourself.

Welcome aboard.

Mike B.

jonbee · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Dec 2006, 05:03 pm »

FYI- I posted a followup today on AA:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/240384.html

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Dec 2006, 06:24 pm »

Thanks for the kind words. The AA Inmates are hard to impress, we'll see how they respond.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Dec 2006, 06:39 pm »

I'm local-ish (Bothell) and would love to hear your setup. There a few really nice guys that share listening sessions and they are always instructive and enjoyable.

PM if you'd like to pursue.

Mike

jonbee · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Mar 2007, 04:47 pm »

Just a few more bits. After 300 or so hours, I think the sound is stabilized. I've dialed back on the mids and highs to ca. 12:45 mids, 1:30 on the tweeters. Sound is very coherent and natural. I've added a second Carver D10 sub; the difference it made was not subtle. As I have a TV in the center, I couldn't center the sub, and even x'd over at 30 hz., the sound was weirdly unbalanced. Besides having more weight on the sub side, the integration of the upper range was clearly not right. Adding the second sub smoothed out the whole soundstage in a major way. I feel that the sound from the system is now correct from top to bottom.
The Carvers are still the weakest part; they don't have the speed of the RM30 bass units, but I've got them dialed back pretty far, so I can live with them.
Congrats on the Positve Feedback review- I'm looking forward to the whole review. His comments on the CDWG are interesting, and in line with my own. I do prefer them with the CDWGs in place, though. I'm not surprised at the outcome, of course. I've felt from the start that these were lifetime speakers for my real world environment.