[mresseguie]

A few weeks ago I attended an audio show in Taichung, Taiwan. One of the rooms was filled with tube audio gear - amps, preamps, DACs. All the components that went into creating each of the amps, preamps, and DACs are made by the same company. This is to say they have total control over the quality (or lack thereof) of all the pieces used to build the audio components. Is there anyway you (the knowledgeable tube amp enthusiast) can tell whether this is a decent amplifier by looking at the specs I have pasted below? If you need more info, what information should I ask the company to produce?   

Max Output

: 35W x 2 CLASS AB1
Power Dissipation   : 240W
Tube   : KT88 x 4 6922EH x4 (6DJ8)
THD   : < 0.05% at 1w
I/P Sensitivity   : 0.7 Vrms
O/P Impedance   : 4 Ohms ~ 8 Ohms/16 Ohms
I/P Impedance   : 100K Ohms
Freq. Response   : 10Hz ~ 80KHz (¡Ó0/-3dB 1w )
Power   : AC100/110/120V; S.W.; 50/ 60Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio   : 90dB
Dimensions (H x W x D)   : 420 x 410 x 290mm
Weight
: 30Kg

Thank you for any responses.

Michael

[FullRangeMan]

This specs are much too good:
Freq 10Hz ~ 80KHz = Its should have a super bass w/10Hz.
THD <0.05% at 1w = Very small Total Distortion, seems a SolidState figure.
SN ratio: 90dB is a impressive value.
Also 30Kg is a heavy amp, which is good.
What is the amp price?

[mresseguie]

I don't know the price. I may have a picture of their gear from the show. Anyway, I will contact the business department director asking for a price list.

Here are specs for the other two amps:
Max Output

: 38W x1 CLASS A
Power Dissipation   : 185W
Tube   : 6922EH x1 / EL34 x 4 / 845 x 1
THD   : < 0.3% at 1w
I/P Sensitivity   : 0.5 Vrms
O/P Impedance   : 4 Ohms, 8 Ohms
I/P Impedance   : 100K Ohms
Freq. Response   : 10Hz ~ 25KHz (+0/ -3dB)
Power   : AC100/110/120V; S.W.; 50/ 60Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio   : 90dB
Dimensions (H x W x D)   : 420 x 410 x 300mm
Weight
: 32.2Kg

and....
Max Output

: 20W x 2 CLASS AB 1
Power Dissipation   : 175W
Tube   : EL34 x 4 / 6922EH x 4 (6DJ8)
THD   : < 0.1% at 1w
I/P Sensitivity   : 0.7 Vrms
O/P Impedance   : 4 Ohms , 8 Ohms
I/P Impedance   : 100K Ohms
Freq. Response   : 10Hz ~ 30KHz (¡Ó1dB)
Power   : AC100/110/120V; S.W.; 50/ 60Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio   : 89dB
Dimensions (H x W x D)   : 420 x 410 x 270mm
Weight
: 20Kg

[Guy 13]

Hi Michael,
to me, specs don't mean a lot, even if on paper they look good.
You know that the ultimate way to know of the specs
are up to the sound is to have a listen.
If it was me, I would also look for Class A circuitry.
In Vietnam importing - distributing products from both China
and Taiwan (Kuang Lin Ind. Taichung) I prefer products from Taiwan,
better made.

Guy 13

[mresseguie]

Here's the link to the company's website. It actually takes you to their amplifier section. They produce other products.

http://www.kcr.com.tw/eng/front/bin/cglist.phtml?Category=13

[Guy 13]

Hi (Again) Michael,
the 38 wpc EL34 is a class A push pull amplifier.
I prefer the  triode connected lower power circuitery,
but maybe your speakers are power hungry...

Guy 13
 

[FullRangeMan]

Wow incredible 38W w/just one 845 and no soft start this tube should lasts about 500 hours only.

The other amp delivering full 20W w/2 EL34, also too much power for a pair of EL34.

[richidoo]

Looks pretty good Michael. The specs are in line with "ek-spec-tations."     A little low on the EL34, but AB1 is higher bias than normal, and more class A means more heat, less power. Class A 845 is about right. They don't seem to be exaggerating power output too much, that's a good sign. The big thing you want to look for is the quality of the output transformers. Do they make their own? The physical appearance can be deceiving if they are potted inside a large can. That's where the money goes, or doesn't. Big, clear and powerful sound depends on good trannies and good parts inside. Also get a look at the insides, look for neat construction, not rat's nest. How much negative feedback? The distortion specs given are only at 1W into a resistor, the easiest possible load so disregard that. Adding negative feedback reduces distortion and allows more power at 1% distortion, but too much feedback starts to sound closed in unless they are very skilled. A poor transformer will have higher distortion at full power. 5-15dB is typical range of feedbck for tube amps, but sometimes they try for no feedback, that's when you need to see the power spec at 1% THD. It's hard to make high power, low distortion without feedback. Impossible without great transformer and circuit design and individual fine tuning, which is probably not the case with these models. In general, you'll want >91ish dB sensitivity speakers for the 20W amp and >88dB for the 40W amp. If you play symphonies add 3dB sensitivity to the speakers. If using DIY speakers  don't forget to subtract 3dB from your midwoofer sensitivity for the baffle step correction.

Did you see Hugh's Black Friday sale on Melody? 

[mresseguie]

Looks pretty good Michael. The specs are in line with "ek-spec-tations."     A little low on the EL34, but AB1 is higher bias than normal, and more class A means more heat, less power. Class A 845 is about right. They don't seem to be exaggerating power output too much, that's a good sign. The big thing you want to look for is the quality of the output transformers. Do they make their own? The physical appearance can be deceiving if they are potted inside a large can. That's where the money goes, or doesn't. Big, clear and powerful sound depends on good trannies and good parts inside. Also get a look at the insides, look for neat construction, not rat's nest. How much negative feedback? The distortion specs given are only at 1W into a resistor, the easiest possible load so disregard that. Adding negative feedback reduces distortion and allows more power at 1% distortion, but too much feedback starts to sound closed in unless they are very skilled. A poor transformer will have higher distortion at full power. 5-15dB is typical range of feedbck for tube amps, but sometimes they try for no feedback, that's when you need to see the power spec at 1% THD. It's hard to make high power, low distortion without feedback. Impossible without great transformer and circuit design and individual fine tuning, which is probably not the case with these models. In general, you'll want >91ish dB sensitivity speakers for the 20W amp and >88dB for the 40W amp. If you play symphonies add 3dB sensitivity to the speakers. If using DIY speakers  don't forget to subtract 3dB from your midwoofer sensitivity for the baffle step correction.

Did you see Hugh's Black Friday sale on Melody? 

Of course I saw it! Thanks to Taiwan's lovely 21% import duty on all audio gear, I'd end up with only 15% off. Perhaps I'll luck out someday and Hugh will come visit Taiwan. He could bring an amp with him, avoid the import duty, and declare me his Taiwan importer. Hey, that's not asking too much, is it?

Thanks for the tips. When the rep responds, I'll post it here for anyone who's interested. I will ask him about the transformers. I'm going to visit their factory since it's just a short drive away. I suspect they'll allow me to take photos. They were quite excited when I told them I'd post about them here.

[richidoo]

That sounds fun!      Pics always appreciated!!

[Steve]

A few weeks ago I attended an audio show in Taichung, Taiwan. One of the rooms was filled with tube audio gear - amps, preamps, DACs. All the components that went into creating each of the amps, preamps, and DACs are made by the same company. This is to say they have total control over the quality (or lack thereof) of all the pieces used to build the audio components. Is there anyway you (the knowledgeable tube amp enthusiast) can tell whether this is a decent amplifier by looking at the specs I have pasted below? If you need more info, what information should I ask the company to produce?   

Max Output

: 35W x 2 CLASS AB1
Power Dissipation   : 240W
Tube   : KT88 x 4 6922EH x4 (6DJ8)
THD   : < 0.05% at 1w
I/P Sensitivity   : 0.7 Vrms
O/P Impedance   : 4 Ohms ~ 8 Ohms/16 Ohms
I/P Impedance   : 100K Ohms
Freq. Response   : 10Hz ~ 80KHz (¡Ó0/-3dB 1w )
Power   : AC100/110/120V; S.W.; 50/ 60Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio   : 90dB
Dimensions (H x W x D)   : 420 x 410 x 290mm
Weight
: 30Kg

Thank you for any responses.

Michael

No way of actually knowing how it will "sound" but a couple of tidbits.

1) -3db at 10hz (at 1 watt output) means approximately -1.3db at 20hz, -.6db at 40hz, -.2db at 80 hz. At full output power the bass response will be even weaker, maybe -5db or -6db down at 10hz.) So probably a little bass shy, which may be good or bad. It will also depend upon the parts quality as well, elsewhere in the circuitry.

2) OPTs are not "linear devices" in the sense that they can be bass heavy or bass light in their overall tonal response. To put it simply for the general public, the OPT itself could be like a preamplifier in that the overall tonal balance can be bass heavy or bass light. So while the OPT might be bass heavy, the rest of the circuitry could be bass light (almost always the case). This would be one reason why playing back a recording is not completely accurate/natural sound.

It is difficult to explain, but the only way to know for sure is for an actual audition in your system and see how it matches up. Please let us know how it turns out.   

Hope this helps at least a little.
Steve

[mresseguie]

Steve,

Thanks for that. I have requested for permission to take my speakers to the audition. I'm waiting for an email response now. Shouldn't be long. It's almost 9 am here, so the guy will be at work already unless he's out.

Guy and FRM,

Thanks guys. I'll let you all know how this goes.

[mresseguie]

Hello, all.

I visited the factory on Wednesday, December 2nd. I was presented with a short history of the company (est. 1950), accomplishments, and what the company does now. There  is a second facility in China which produces items for the Chinese market. The amps, preamps, and CD players produced in the plant in Taiwan are for either domestic or export consumption, so the amps I saw are entirely produced in Taiwan.

The company has produced toroidal power supplies and transformers for decades. I now know more about making transformers and toroidal PS than at anytime in my past.  I spent a couple hours in the factory not far from my home here. This factory makes a number of different things with CNC machines including machines, and parts for machines. One of this company's specialties is power supplies for audio, MRI machines, radios, computers, etc. Toroidal power supplies and transformers are made there. The owner is an audiophile who loves vacuum tube amps and preamps - and tubed CD players, so he decided to start his own line not long ago.

I went there specifically to listen to their amps/pres on my Fritz LS/5-R speakers (83.5dB). You guys know this is not very sensitive, but Fritz suggests they are easier to drive because of the series XO. Anyway, I got to hear them driven by the top of the line 38w mono amps, their best preamp, and their CD player. The bass was noticeably shy compared to my Nuprime IDA-8. The midrange and above was crystal clear with just a hint of brightness in the higher frequencies in some instances. The volume dial was at no more than 10 o'clock and it was nicely loud. I have no idea if the brightness was from the recordings, cabling, amps, preamps, or room (or all of them). I asked about the cables, and was told they were made by a company in Taiwan. I offered to use my TWL speaker cables at that point, but we didn't use them as we were out of time. [My father-in-law was kind enough to drive the wrong car with my sample CDs inside leaving me with no sound of my own that day.] 

With my IDA-8 there is almost too much bass in my untreated living room (cement walls, cement ceiling, picture window). I emailed both Jason (Nuprime owner) and John Casler asking if the IDA-8 was artificially enhanced and both replied that the bass is natural and a result of a higher damping ratio.

With a little luck I may be allowed to audition one of their amps and preamps (separates or integrated) for a short time, but this may have to wait until after an upcoming audio show in Taipei.

Back to the story:

This company manufactures its own power supplies, transformers, and amp/preamp cases. Wire and cabling is purchased from another Taiwanese company, but all winding and QC is in-house. It occurred to me that I could potentially special order a couple of inductors for my upcoming speaker project from this company.

Lastly, after the factory tour and the listening session, we ended up back in the company's conference room to discuss their future and what the N. American market is like. I talked about the value of online forums to get the message out, attending audio shows, and auditioning products. They were shocked to hear about free product tours. Taiwanese audiophiles (apparently) are less trusting of each other than their N. American counterparts. Chalk it up to different cultures, I guess.

Just before we said our good byes, the business manager asked me what was in it for me/why was I interested in helping them market their products and offering ideas on how to reach the US market. My answer surprised them. This whole audiophile hobby is fun and that was my motivation for visiting their factory/offering ideas and insight into the N. American market and not for personal profit. [It was right then that I understood why my wife thinks I'm a little loony sometimes.]    They either thought I was a nut case or that I was some sort of angel - I'm unsure which. [As they have continued communicating via email with me and supplying pictures and specs, I must not be a nut case.]

I'm a newb when it comes to tube amps and preamps, so I honestly cannot sit here and declare this company's wares to be awesome and amazing value, but I was impressed. I'm going to learn more about their amps and preamps in the coming days, so I'll pass this along as I translate and absorb the information. As I mentioned above, I hope to get one of their amps into my house with my TWL loom and PI Audio DigiBUSS to audition for a while. Then, I'll be able to give a better assessment of the sound quality.

Much more to come, but this is a good start.

Michael

[ArthurDent]

Thanks for the write-up Michael, interesting on several levels. Keep up posted on the progress/development of this new relationship. 

[FullRangeMan]

I appreciated you detailed report, thanks Michael.

[mlundy57]

Michael,

Have they given you any idea as to the prices of their amps?

Mike

[mresseguie]

Mike,

Yes. I have the prices. I'll post them as soon as I get back to my computer.

[mresseguie]

Prices of Arriba amp, preamp, and CD models:

There are more models available for sale now than what are listed on their website. "Ex. Work (Taiwan)" seems to me to mean the price doesn't include shipping?? I will ask for clarification on this. There is a warehouse or company owned building in the US in which items could be stored for sales to N. America, but all inventory is currently in Taiwan. I've got lots of pictures coming.

When I asked about what quality level their products were made for, I was told pricing was set at either Mid-Fi pricing or Mid-HiFi pricing, but quality is at HiFi level. They think/believe they've got really high quality gear for sale, but they're offering it at lower prices than it should be because they're the new kids on the block (my words). Prices are in USD.

A8025   set   $1,875   Ex. Work (Taiwan)   25W *2, Integrated
A7025   "   $1,875     "   "
A6025   "   $1,720     "                           25W *2 Amplifier
A6020   "   $1,625     "                           20W *2 Amplifier
A6035   "   $4,250     "                           35W *2 Amplifier
A6038   pair   $7,850     "                       38W *1, Single, L&R (dual mono amps)

A3050   set   $3,125     "                           Pre-Amplifier
A3055   "   $1,500     "                           Pre-Amplifier

A7040   "   $595             "                           A. 40W *2 Integrated  B. Vacuum Tube + IC C. Promotion model

P-2008   "   $1,875     "                           CD player
P-1008   "   $1,875     "   "

[mresseguie]

Pics

When I first saw the amps with wood surrounds, I actually thought it was plastic. I even asked them if it was plastic. They said, "Oh no! It's wood specifically chosen for this grain pattern." The covers are plexiglass. They were chosen so that the tubes would be in full view yet present no danger to children or pets. They are removable.

[mlundy57]

Michael,

Thanks

Mike