Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!

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geowak

Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #20 on: 27 Nov 2015, 04:49 pm »
This is a great discussion. It can go in many directions for sure. To me this hobby is very much about money. Many, many people cannot afford hi end gear. Period. Some affordable systems in the $2500 to $5000 range are too much to spend for the average person. The hobby of hi fidelity is mostly for the well to do. Spotify, Vintage Marantz receivers, older turntables, ipods, iphones are all afforable devices. I spent far more money on my system than what the average joe would have. And mine would be laughable compared to the systems I see here on AC.

bacobits1

Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #21 on: 27 Nov 2015, 07:14 pm »
I'll delete my post anyway.
No politics but this is AmpDesigner's board I didn't notice that.

I don't post much here anymore.


« Last Edit: 27 Nov 2015, 09:49 pm by bacobits1 »

md92468

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #22 on: 27 Nov 2015, 08:02 pm »
This isn't as absolute an argument as some here are making it out to be. Spending and listening habits are definitely changing among younger people, but the decision to buy a system isn't purely based on sonics. Or durability. Or even logic. 

As always, buying decisions are made based on a complicated blend of factors. To think that most consumers follow a logical path to purchasing an object - any object - is naive and oversimplified; ego and social pressure are significant drivers of choice, for example, and neither is based on logic. Emotional connection also plays a huge role...as Dr. Donald Caine once said,  “The essential difference between emotion and reason is that emotion leads to action, while reason leads to conclusions.”

The operative question when trying to reach customers is where you resonate with them - where do your values and beliefs overlap with theirs. This is where branding comes in. To know that answer to those questions, you need to know what these folks value – what music means to them, what home entertainment means to them, what buying an object means to them. Steve Jobs was a savant at this (whether or not you like his products).

Most manufacturers and retailers do far too little consumer research before developing a product, assuming that if they check all the right boxes & make all the right feature sets they'll sell more. Eventually, and often painfully, they learn that this isn't enough.

The bottom line on the argument is that if folks continue to paint with such broad strokes (audiophiles are X & Y, but not Z), they'll continue to miss opportunities. A nickel's worth of free advice: spend AT LEAST as much time listening to feedback about your products (and other people's products) as you do developing ideas for new products or improvements. Pay particular attention to people you are failing to reach. And leave your ego at the door...

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #23 on: 27 Nov 2015, 08:49 pm »
The social nature of our US society is changing, as evidenced by social networks and less TV watching, as well as less home ownership and marriage commitment.  People seem to be in their own little worlds more, not talking politics with anyone and tending to believe much of what they read on the web. They avoid calling you on the phone and actually hold a conversation.  They are more likely just to text, particularly if they don't know you, but even if they do.   I would suspect that fewer people watch or read the news now than in the last 30 years.  They seem to want to put their heads in the sand rather than being involved.  They don't seem to give a damn about anyone but those in their little world.  The grammatical errors in advertising and other news is on the rise.  People held as role models are uneducated low-life.  Sports figures routinely cheat.  Students in college routinely cheat.  The society is becoming more introverted, selfish, lazy and greedy overall IMO.    Job applicants, even college grads have no work ethic.   Also more stupid.

Okay, okay, back to stereo...

There was a similar article in Stereophile last issue.  People see high-end stereo gear as a waste of money now.  Even Bose is overpriced, as well as Pono.  The real problem is a lack of culture in our society, or at least a lack of appreciation of culture and the arts.  There is plenty of culture available, but people don't VALUE it.  That is the problem really.  Values are changing, and for the worse.  Its a damn shame.  The media is not helping either and frankly is mostly to blame.  Performances and music media has not gotten suddenly extremely expensive, as has fine art.  It is still affordable.  And the sound quality that you can buy for $100 is a LOT better than what you could get 20 years ago.  The difference is that everything is at your fingertips in your Ipad, so there is little motivation to go further.

Steve N.

Steve,

I really enjoyed reading your post!  You sure are good at expressing yourself, and that's something that we also see/hear less and less of these days.  Grammar errors in advertising: Holy crap!  This is one of my MAJOR pet peeves.  There's an ad that says "Live Awesome"!  What the hell?  Reminds me of when people say "drive safe".  How hard is adjective versus adverb?  It's even hard for me to write it that way.  People butcher the English language.  Here's another one, and I hear newscasters do this ALL THE TIME: "There's...." then a plural.  I sit and scream "There ARE" at the TV frequently, especially during the 11 o'clock news, which I watch about once a week.  ....and another thing, spell checkers are on almost every device people use to send messages.  I abbreviate like a madman when texting, but in emails, why can't people just check the spelling before hitting SEND?  Ugh.  I'm wound tightly as it is, and listening to poor grammar can make my blood pressure rise a bit.  So....  I just need to listen to music again to get it back down.

Yes, the world is in "quality decline".  Point well taken about certain countries.

Well, I really hope I didn't have any grammar mistakes.  I did use spell check (:  I copy posts into my email SW to check it since it knows all the acronyms, etc.

By the way, when I'm out with the kids, I'm constantly getting compliments on their manners.  Thanks to my grammar police side-job, they are hyper-aware of these things, too.  I'll make audiophiles out of them!  OK, back off my high horse and into the lab to continue finalizing the MINT Maraschino, which is going very well now, aside from vendor delays.  Thanks.

-Tommy O

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #24 on: 27 Nov 2015, 09:03 pm »





Keep your political opinions to yourself.  No one cares what members think about that.  This is a audio site.  Keep it that way.

Maybe just edit out the political comment....  This thread was temporarily taken off the map because of a similar post.  I don't want that happening again!  Thanks.

Freo-1

Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #25 on: 27 Nov 2015, 09:06 pm »
deleted.
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2015, 12:21 am by Freo-1 »

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #26 on: 27 Nov 2015, 09:14 pm »
Please clean it up.  The post is out of line (and the assumptions are wrong, to boot).  If the post is not edited out, it will likely be knocked off line again.
I'll also edit that part out of my reply.  You are correct, and we don't want this thread binned again.  It's a good one!  Thanks.

-Tommy O

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #27 on: 27 Nov 2015, 09:17 pm »





Keep your political opinions to yourself.  No one cares what members think about that.  This is a audio site.  Keep it that way.
Please edit the same stuff out of your reply (take a look at what I did to mine).  Thanks.

adminRH

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #28 on: 27 Nov 2015, 11:20 pm »
I binned Steve's post (politics) and Freo's post that quoted Steve's post (for politics.) Thanks Freo for speaking up.

Thanks to everyone for helping keep it on track!  :thumb:

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #29 on: 28 Nov 2015, 05:53 pm »
I binned Steve's post (politics) and Freo's post that quoted Steve's post (for politics.) Thanks Freo for speaking up.

Thanks to everyone for helping keep it on track!  :thumb:
Thanks for keeping the thread alive!

timind

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #30 on: 28 Nov 2015, 07:18 pm »
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio.  I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.

glynnw

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #31 on: 28 Nov 2015, 07:50 pm »
There are many excellent sounding new recordings, but perhaps not by the huge stars.  Try John Fullbright's latest, "Songs" or Roseanne Cash's
"The River and the Thread".  Seriously, I am constantly finding great sounding music that is of recent vintage.  Or maybe I am just easy to please - it could happen.

timind

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #32 on: 28 Nov 2015, 09:42 pm »
There are many excellent sounding new recordings, but perhaps not by the huge stars.  Try John Fullbright's latest, "Songs" or Roseanne Cash's
"The River and the Thread".  Seriously, I am constantly finding great sounding music that is of recent vintage.  Or maybe I am just easy to please - it could happen.

Well I did say "popular." I am able to find new music that is recorded well but I'm not talking about artists you or I listen to. I have 4 grandsons and not one of them is likely to listen to Roseanne Cash or John Fullbright.


Freo-1

Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #33 on: 28 Nov 2015, 11:12 pm »
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio.  I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.

There is much truth in your post.  There has been complaints about the quality of audio recordings for years now.  Google "loudness wars"  to get a more detailed explanation.  I remember when the Killers were all the rage, and the recording quality was pitiful. 

I grew up in tail end of the golden age of audio.  There were still Dynaco kits, HK Citation kits, and quality gear such as Scott/Fisher available.  It used to be more of a real hobby, where hobbyists could actually build their own amps/preamps.  There were a fair amount of audio specialty stores available, where one got exposed to quality sound.  The recording engineers paid attention to their task at hand.  Even recordings from rock/blues bands such as Savoy Brown were done by Decca engineers, who mostly worked with classical.  The RCA Red Label and Mercury Living Presence recordings are still considered to be among the best.

I think it is fair to say that high end audio always has been and will be a niche market.  And that is OK.  I think the best audio lovers can hope for is to expose your friends and family to the benefits of listening to quality music,  and IF they ask for help, point them towards a better sounding system at their price point.  I've been able to do just that with friends and family members.  Most of us here have enough experience to provide support if asked.  Many folks are primarily interested in surround sound setups.  One can put together a decent surround setup that also will sound good with two channel audio. 




 

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #34 on: 14 Dec 2015, 02:19 pm »
This just in:
"The DAC DAC is another example of a product only a few people will want.".

We'll see about that!  We've introduced several products over the years, and the DAC DAC has generated more initial interest than all of them COMBINED!

My buddy's explanation is starting to lose its ability to hold water. There are plenty of people interested in beyond-mainstream quality audio, especially considering Tidal, HD Tracks, and other sources of high-res audio content.

I pointed that out, plus, this is our first non-amp product. Again, we'll see....  I think the audiophile market is about to enjoy a revitalization!!!!

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #35 on: 14 Dec 2015, 06:26 pm »
Another reason to worry about the future of this hobby is the quality of the music produced today. I'm not talking about the artistic quality, but the sonic quality. So much of today's popular music is produced with so much compression it's useless to listen to it on a quality system; I actually find it painful at times.
It seemed to me the music I grew up with was worthy of a decent system. The reason to have a high end system is to be able to discern imaging, dynamics, soundstage and the rest of the audiophile attributes that can be recorded. If those attributes aren't present, why bother.
I think of a popular female artist from the early 70s' such as Linda Ronstadt. Most of her music was extremely well recorded. Compare her to Adele. I bought Adele's 21 album when it came out and was floored by how terrible it sounded. And I would think an artist like Adele would be recorded well. Her songs sounded fine on my car radio.  I can't imagine how poorly other artists sound. My grandsons don't seem to mind on their phones. My point is, if the reason for owning a good audio system is to hear all the nuance in recorded music but there's none there...
In the end, it could have nothing to do with the affordability, time constraints or competition with other entertainment mediums.

I have to agree.  The quality of recordings of popular music today is awful.  My daughter would occasionally play some hip hop or R&B on my system and it sounds awful.  Same for Adele.

People definitely hear things different and some of it has to do with how important music is to them.  My son is 23 and he has a friend that comes over from time to time.  My son who has turned into an audiophile (thanks to dad giving him his Parasound A21 amp and my AVA preamp) has played music for his friend.  His friend stated that my system (Pass amp, BAT preamp, Luxman DAC and Magnepan 1.6's) does not sound any better than the Bose HT system that his dad bought.  This kid is not that into music however and just listens to it for background music.

I am lucky as my son loves music and appreciates quality recordings.  He had developed a great appreciation of vocal music, big band, jazz, blue's, new age (he loves Windham Hill) and classic rock.  We frequently have a drink and listen to music for 1-2 hours at a time.  He also had a great appreciation for vinyl.  His enthusiasm for high quality audio is starting to rub off on one of his friends who has hinted that he want's help putting together a good sounding budget system.

I think that today more than ever, you can put together a very nice sounding budget system for just a few hundred dollars.  I have a dayton DTA 100a digital amp that I paid $50 for on sale and I run it with an old Denon DVD player and Monitor Audio S1 speakers that I bought on sale for $400.  The system sounds awesome in my bedroom.

There are a lot of great sounding budget components like the AQ Dragon Fly, Elac speakers, Pioneer speakers, Emotiva amps, Dayton and tripath amps, etc.

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #36 on: 30 Dec 2015, 10:36 pm »
Ahhhhh, the holidays....  Time for family dinners, and the occasional "you know what you should do....".

Well, this year, I was told that I need to "get out of this little audiophile niche"!

Any thought on that one?

Happy New Year!

paul79

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #37 on: 30 Dec 2015, 10:44 pm »
You could always try heroin......

foz1982

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Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #38 on: 30 Dec 2015, 10:48 pm »
I would only give up my niche right after I gave up my other nasty habit. BREATHING.

bacobits1

Re: Anti-Audiophile Guy, you are wrong!
« Reply #39 on: 30 Dec 2015, 10:48 pm »
Audiophile niche?
I've been in a niche for over 40 years no one has ever told me to get out of that.

Have a great New Year!