Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?

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Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #20 on: 16 Mar 2018, 02:58 am »
I’m still working on ripping my small collection of multichannel DVD-A discs, but so far I’m really enjoying having access to them using the Salkstream III/Roon.

I haven’t listened to these recordings for some time cause the Salkstream/Roon has made me too lazy to get a disc and put it in the player. :lol:

Too bad there’s not much out now there in this format. :( I think Multichannel DVD-A was a bit ahead of its time.  When it came out, setting up a proper multichannel wasn’t easy and it was expensive.

My thanks to everyone who posted for helping me with this. :D

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #21 on: 18 Mar 2018, 04:01 am »
Well, my excitement over being able to rip my multichannel DVD-A and multichannel SACD discs was short lived.

Whenever I play any of these files there’s low level, but clearly audible, noise in the background of the music (the music itself doesn’t distort) that sounds kind of like a loose or bad connection.  Its audible on all channels, including sub.  It’s only there on the files ripped from multichannel DVD-A and SACD discs (I haven’t tried 2 channel SACD discs).  There’s no such noise when playing files ripped from CDs or even DTS CDs.  It’s there whether I’m playing multichannel through my Oppo via HDMI or direct to my pre/pro via optical.

So it seems either the Salkstream is doing something to add the noise or the noise is within the multichannel files.  I’m thinking it’s the latter since it only occurs on the multichannel files.

Is it possible Roon is doing something to cause this noise?  Any settings I can check?

Another issue is when using HDMI to the Oppo, if music is paused for awhile (the time varies) the HDMI connection between the Oppo and Salkstream is lost.  I then have to reboot the Salkstream to get it to reconnect.  Changing HDMI cables didn’t seem to help.

Any ideas what’s going on here?  Am I just out of luck playing multichannel music using my streamer/Roon?

Any suggestions/help is greatly appreciated.

(I can start a new thread if needed.)

EDIT:

Another data point....streaming the multichannel files to my iPad (of course Roon downconverts to 2 channel), there is no noise.

I’m really confused about what’s going on here.

jsalk

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #22 on: 18 Mar 2018, 11:11 am »
It is highly unlikely that the StreamPlayer adds noise to a recording.  Does the Oppo have a file browser?  If so, try playing a track using the Oppo as a controller and the StreamPlayer as a NAS on your network.  In other words, use the Oppo to play files stored on the StreamPlayer.  The idea is to take the StreamPlayer and Roon out of the equation and test the results.

- Jim

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #23 on: 18 Mar 2018, 02:46 pm »
It is highly unlikely that the StreamPlayer adds noise to a recording.  Does the Oppo have a file browser?  If so, try playing a track using the Oppo as a controller and the StreamPlayer as a NAS on your network.  In other words, use the Oppo to play files stored on the StreamPlayer.  The idea is to take the StreamPlayer and Roon out of the equation and test the results.

- Jim

Thanks for the suggestion.  I’ll give that a try and report back.

I did try playing the actual discs in the Oppo and there was no noise.

This is very puzzling.  Hopefully there’s a simple fix (ie, maybe a setting change in Roon).

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #24 on: 18 Mar 2018, 05:38 pm »
It is highly unlikely that the StreamPlayer adds noise to a recording.  Does the Oppo have a file browser?  If so, try playing a track using the Oppo as a controller and the StreamPlayer as a NAS on your network.  In other words, use the Oppo to play files stored on the StreamPlayer.  The idea is to take the StreamPlayer and Roon out of the equation and test the results.

- Jim

I did as you suggested with the Oppo and the noise is still there.  As a matter of fact, now the noise is there no matter what is playing, or even if nothing is playing.  Turning off the Salkstream stops the noise.  If the Salkstream is on, the noise is there, and gets louder when asking the Salkstream to do anything (whether using Roon or the web browser access to the Salkstream).  If I leave the Salkstream alone for a bit with nothing playing, the noise gets quieter.  Btw, I made a recording of the noise if you want to hear it.

I did discover something, however.  If I disconnect the HDMI cable between the Oppo and the Salkstream, the noise goes away.  So it seems using the HDMI connection introduces the noise (I tried 2 different cables, made no difference).  Of course with it disconnected I can’t use Roon to play multichannel files through the Oppo. :(

Any suggestions where to go from here? :scratch:


Phil A

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #25 on: 18 Mar 2018, 05:42 pm »
I did as you suggested with the Oppo and the noise is still there.  As a matter of fact, now the noise is there no matter what is playing, or even if nothing is playing.  Turning off the Salkstream stops the noise.  If the Salkstream is on, the noise is there, and gets louder when asking the Salkstream to do anything (whether using Roon or the web browser access to the Salkstream).  If I leave the Salkstream alone for a bit with nothing playing, the noise gets quieter.  Btw, I made a recording of the noise if you want to hear it.

I did discover something, however.  If I disconnect the HDMI cable between the Oppo and the Salkstream, the noise goes away.  So it seems using the HDMI connection introduces the noise (I tried 2 different cables, made no difference).  Of course with it disconnected I can’t use Roon to play multichannel files through the Oppo. :(

Any suggestions where to go from here? :scratch:

Don't know if this is helpful - https://www.cepro.com/article/understanding_fixing_hdmi_noise

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #26 on: 18 Mar 2018, 07:44 pm »
Thanks Phil. :)  Reading that link explains why the Salkstream had trouble keeping a connection with the Oppo (too much noise in the line).

Also, I found this video about eliminating computer noise from the audio signal. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSA2F1AwboU

The noise in the video is similar to what I’m hearing, though what I’m experiencing is lower level and variable depending on if the Salkstream is doing something or not.  It got me wondering if connection between the Salkstream and the Oppo via HDMI cable is setting up some kind of ground loop?

Unfortunately, I don’t have a 2 prong power supply, HDMI cable with a ferrite bead, or any kind of “noise eliminating” device to try.

Anyone think this is a ground loop issue, or is it likely something else?





« Last Edit: 18 Mar 2018, 09:20 pm by Saturn94 »

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #27 on: 19 Mar 2018, 11:45 pm »
(Deleted post...more detailed post below)
« Last Edit: 20 Mar 2018, 02:15 am by Saturn94 »

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #28 on: 20 Mar 2018, 02:13 am »
UPDATE:

I tried a cheater plug on the Salkstream’s 3 prong power supply and the noise went away. Yay! :D  Is this a safe solution?  If not, Jim, would it be possible to get a 2 prong plug power supply for my Salkstream III?

Now the other problem.  After about 9-10 minutes after booting up the Salkstream and connecting to the Oppo, the connection drops and audio stops via HDMI (it still continues to play fine via optical to my pre/pro).  The only way to re-establish the connection is to reboot the Salkstream.

When the Salkstream boots up, you can see it doing so on the TV.  Once fully booted up, this message shows on the TV:




There’s a bliinking curser next to “Login”.

After 9-10 minutes passes, the curser stops blinking and audio stops.  If I switch to another input on the Oppo, then back to the HDMI input connected to the Salkstream, there’s no message at all on the TV screen.

So it’s as if the Salkstream is going to sleep at the HDMI input.  As I mentioned, the music will continue to play via optical output, and Roon never shows anything amiss.

Jim, or anyone knowledgeable about the Salkstream’s programming, is there a way to keep the Salkstream from doing this on the HDMI output?

What’s really weird about the HDMI issue is I know this wasn’t happening when I first started ripping my multichannel DVD Audio discs to the Salkstream.  I played music, and paused, quite a while without any issues.  It started just the other day when I started ripping SACDs.

Thanks in advance.  I appreciate the input and patience helping me to get this working right. :)




Phil A

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #29 on: 20 Mar 2018, 02:37 am »
UPDATE:

I tried a cheater plug on the Salkstream’s 3 prong power supply and the noise went away. Yay! :D  Is this a safe solution? 

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28709428-Electrical-Tell-me-about-cheater-plugs

Phil A

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #30 on: 20 Mar 2018, 02:38 am »
Do you by chance have a cable box nearby?

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #31 on: 20 Mar 2018, 02:42 am »
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28709428-Electrical-Tell-me-about-cheater-plugs

Thanks for the link.  Hopefully Jim can provide a proper 2 prong power supply to alleviate any risk.

Phil A

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #32 on: 20 Mar 2018, 02:49 am »
Thanks for the link.  Hopefully Jim can provide a proper 2 prong power supply to alleviate any risk.
see the first video
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002E4YI8/?coliid=I2I3VNO4OQRS43&colid=321FECHQA1Z6W&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #33 on: 20 Mar 2018, 03:13 am »
see the first video
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002E4YI8/?coliid=I2I3VNO4OQRS43&colid=321FECHQA1Z6W&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Interesting product.  I’ll keep that in mind. :)


Do you by chance have a cable box nearby?

There is small cable box hooked to the TV (part of my Audio/HT system).

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #34 on: 20 Mar 2018, 03:35 am »
UPDATE:

I tried a cheater plug on the Salkstream’s 3 prong power supply and the noise went away. Yay! :D  Is this a safe solution?  If not, Jim, would it be possible to get a 2 prong plug power supply for my Salkstream III?

Now the other problem.  After about 9-10 minutes after booting up the Salkstream and connecting to the Oppo, the connection drops and audio stops via HDMI (it still continues to play fine via optical to my pre/pro).  The only way to re-establish the connection is to reboot the Salkstream.

When the Salkstream boots up, you can see it doing so on the TV.  Once fully booted up, this message shows on the TV:




There’s a bliinking curser next to “Login”.

After 9-10 minutes passes, the curser stops blinking and audio stops.  If I switch to another input on the Oppo, then back to the HDMI input connected to the Salkstream, there’s no message at all on the TV screen.

So it’s as if the Salkstream is going to sleep at the HDMI input.  As I mentioned, the music will continue to play via optical output, and Roon never shows anything amiss.

Jim, or anyone knowledgeable about the Salkstream’s programming, is there a way to keep the Salkstream from doing this on the HDMI output?

What’s really weird about the HDMI issue is I know this wasn’t happening when I first started ripping my multichannel DVD Audio discs to the Salkstream.  I played music, and paused, quite a while without any issues.  It started just the other day when I started ripping SACDs.

Thanks in advance.  I appreciate the input and patience helping me to get this working right. :)


PS - Did a search on “HDMI going to sleep on NUC” (am I correct the Salkstream III is a NUC?), and found lots of complaints about this on the Intel support forum.  I didn’t see any solutions.  :icon_frown:

Help!

Phil A

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #35 on: 20 Mar 2018, 12:50 pm »
Interesting product.  I’ll keep that in mind. :)


There is small cable box hooked to the TV (part of my Audio/HT system).

Cable boxes are known to cause issues.  There are solutions and threads on various forums - e.g. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1447566-cable-box-causing-hum-need-fix.html

Phil A

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #36 on: 20 Mar 2018, 12:58 pm »
You can also unplug the cable box and see if the problem disappears before looking at solutions.

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #37 on: 20 Mar 2018, 01:24 pm »
Thanks.  I’ll check that out.

jsalk

Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #38 on: 20 Mar 2018, 06:42 pm »
What you are seeing on your TV is the StreamPlayer login after booting up.  If you hook up a keyboard, you can actually log into the StreamPlayer using your TV as a monitor.  Of course, there is no need to do so unless you are doing maintenance on the OS.  But this is normal.  And after some period of inactivity (not logging in), the screen will go blank and/or the cursor will stop flashing.  This also is normal behavior. It is not an issue.

The StreamPlayer does not use a NUC.  It uses a standard motherboard.

As for the power supply, I don't think anyone would make a two-prong power supply in this day and age as they likely could not get UL approval.  If a cheater plug solves the noise problem, I don't think you'll have any problems using it.  But you do likely have a ground loop situation. 

Are the Oppo, the receiver, the TV and the StreamPlayer plugged into the same physical outlet?  Are you using a surge protector?

As for the HDMI dropping its connection, this is a non-standard use of the StreamPlayer.  The StreamPlayer was designed to be used with USB, S/PDIF or both.  While it is certainly possible to enable the HDMI outputs in Roon, this is not necessarily a supported use.  There are simply too many variables involved here when things don't work out.  It may be an issue with the the HDMI cabling, the Oppo, the receiver, the TV or any number of other things. HDMI is a basically a video  interface with copy protection.  There could be issues with the Intel graphics circuits or graphics drivers not recognizing the Oppo as an HDCP (digital copy protection) compliant device. Without having all the associated devices in hand (TV, Oppo and StreamPlayer), troubleshooting the issue is akin to target shooting in the dark.

We have purposely kept things simple with the StreamPlayer both to keep things stable and to minimize the support time required to keep them up and running.  When we introduced the very first StreamPlayer, we had a version without internal storage.  But we found that we were spending a great deal of time sorting out customers network issues.  I spent two full days one time trying to figure out how in the world one of our customers could have over 1,000 devices attached to his router.  In the end, a new router solved the issue. Although you could certainly use a StreamPlayer to play music files stored on a NAS or other device, we now include internal storage in all StreamPlayers to keep things simple.  Having internal music storage pretty much eliminated support calls since we no longer have to help resolve network communications issues between the StreamPlayer and a NAS or computer.

I have used a customized version of the StreamPlayer as a media server in my home theater and have had not issues with drop outs or the HDMI signal going to sleep.  But I don't use that server for music via HDMI (although I do play concert videos quite often and have had no issue).

Solving issues like these is actually quite easy, once you've identified the cause.  The best way to troubleshoot is not to search for the issue or assume any component is at fault, but to eliminate things that are not the issue. The more potential issues you can eliminate, the smaller the list becomes until you eventually narrow in on the cause.  In all the years we have been producing StreamPlayers, we have had to sort out a fair number of issues.  I don't recall a single case where the StreamPlayer was at fault once it was set up and operating properly.  Of course, you can't rule anything out.  But it is a very simple device and there really isn't much that can go wrong.

If I get a chance in the next week or so, I will investigate HDMI issues where multi-channel music is concerned.  In just a quick look today, I noticed quite a few individuals trying to address similar issues.  But I did not run across any solutions.  So more research time is in order on this one.

- Jim



 

Saturn94

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Re: Streaming DVD-Audio on Salkstream III/Roon?
« Reply #39 on: 20 Mar 2018, 11:19 pm »
Thank you Jim for the thoughtful response.

To answer your question, the TV, processor, Oppo 103, and the Salkstream, are plugged into the same surge protector.  My processor is an older model (Anthem AVM 20) and lacks any HDMI connectios.

In case this info helps, these components are connected as follows;

Salkstream is connected to processor via optical, and to the Oppo via HDMI.
Oppo is connected to processor via 6 channel analog RCA connections, and to the TV via HDMI.

As far as trying to narrow down the source of the HDMI issue, I’ve tried the following so far;

1, Leaving the TV on so all HDMI components are powered on and actively connected.
2. After loss of HDMI connection, change input on Oppo to something else then back to the Salkstream to try to re-establish connection.
3. Reboot the Oppo after HDMI connection is lost to try to re-establish connection
4. Reboot the Salkstream

The only thing that worked was rebooting the Salkstream, hence my thinking that the Salkstream was disconnecting the connection when the Login curser stopped blinking (video signal turning off).

It’s apparent from your post that it may not be that simple.  Is there anything else you recommend I try to help narrow down the issue?

I understand this isn’t a standard use of the Salkstream.  However, I’d love to be able to use it and Roon to play my multichannel music files.  I wonder how other Salkstream/Roon users are playing multichannel files?  What components/connection setup are they using?

Your time and effort helping me where possible are greatly appreciated.

Again, thank you. :)

Jim