[Danny Richie]

The nice thing though, is that you can actually measure changes in driver parameters, regardless if they are audible or not. Still wanting to know if this is applicable to capacitor "burn in."

A few week ago you were questioning my statements about how using mis-matched bundles of caps to get a larger value caused an audible phase shift.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103006.0

After I posted measured data showing exactly what I told you was happening I never did see another response from you. Did you finally get it?

You know it could be that I just might know a little bit about how capacitors work.

[Æ]

A few week ago you were questioning my statements about how using mis-matched bundles of caps to get a larger value caused an audible phase shift.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103006.0

After I posted measured data showing exactly what I told you was happening I never did see another response from you. Did you finally get it?

You know it could be that I just might know a little bit about how capacitors work.

I know a little bit about capacitors too.
I forwarded the link and your graphs to a rather well educated electronics engineer and asked what he thought, his opinion, etc.

By the way, intelligence isn't what you know, it's what you are capable of learning.

[J Fallows]

Hello,
 I'm John Fallows and I work at Salk Sound. Proud to say that too. At work, I get to work on some of the best speakers around. OK, call me biased if you want
 Our crew is without question, the most talented group I've ever worked with. Don't call me biased about that or we may have words.
I've read this thread some and I have to admit that the capacitor stuff eludes me for the most part.
But the driver break in part I find very interesting. I've been thinking about it a lot.

 At the shop, when I'm not washing bottles, I get to assemble speakers, a hell of a lot of speakers.
I handle drivers every day. That by no means elevates me to the level of expertise in this crowd, but I have drivers in my hands every day and have examined many different ones many, many times.

 So here goes.

 On some new drivers, when I carefully move the cone through some of it's travel, I can hear what sounds to me like a slight cracking sounds coming from the area of the spider. Has anyone else noticed this?
 
This causes me to think that something is happening in the spider. Break in is wording that seems to cause great excitement in these here parts so I'll say softening. Does that fit here?

 It sounds to me a reasonable assumption that the spider must be getting softer and more pliable.

 I'll say that this phenomena must be occurring while the driver is doing it's business inside the cabinet. Haven't the foggiest about how long it goes on. Can it be measured? Does it make an audible difference? I couldn't tell you.
 
 And the time domain thing has me wondering too.

 So lets just say that the spider gets softer after some period of use. Our amplifier, while playing music, is constantly commanding the voice coil to find a certain position along it's travel. As the spider gets softer the voice coil, seeing less resistance from the spider is able to find it's position faster. Return from that position faster too. So could be the waterfall plot looks better. Impulse?


 I must admit that all of this could be sort of sub-atomic, but isn't that why we have the Hadron Collider?
 
 Hey, but the length of this post isn't so sub-atomic, sorry.

John

[JerryM]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, John.

Jerry

[Nuance]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, John.

Jerry

+1, and it was awesome to meet you a couple weeks ago, John.

[martyo]

Thanks John.

[audiotom]

John

Thank you for sharing your insights.

I've always looked at break in as a natural thing for a component, especially a speaker, and with no negative connotations associated with it.

the speaker opens up and softens - it's a good thing

[Big Red Machine]

Dude, get back to work.  More bottles to wash!

[J Fallows]

 Thanks all for the kind remarks,
but not you Pete.

[Dyne Analytics]

Re: John Fallows

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences.  Yes, that cracking sound is just that: fibers cracking and breaking.  And yes, the Cms will change.....permanently.

In testing, I measured a new (and cheap) driver and recorded the data.  Then, I force the cone to its mechanical extremes re-test: the results are different and.....permanent.   One may argue the driver is damaged; but, it continues to perform quite well with no manifestations of damage.

Forgive me, but I wish to add two off subject comments: 1.) there are large differences in driver components (spiders, glue, VC, cone, surround, etc.).  Two "identical" drivers will be significantly different.  Breaking in drivers may lead to a statistal average parameter that is a sharp bell curve.  I speculate (no proof) that all the differences mostly cancel or mostly average out.  And 2.) a loudspeaker is a non-linear device: most of our models fail except for small signal analysis.  There are large changes in inductance, stiffness, and force factor.  Then there's VC temp and VC offset: egads, stop me before someone gets hurt! 

[nrenter]

Sound would say a brand-new pair of leather shoes are broken-in by the time you walk out of the store. To each their own.

[srb]

Sound would say a brand-new pair of leather shoes are broken-in by the time you walk out of the store. To each their own.

I have been wearing shoes my entire life and most everyone I know wears shoes also.  The majority of them have been leather.  I have never heard anyone say that about shoes, leather or non-leather.  Who is this Sound anyway?

Steve

[jimdgoulding]

For sure, whatever you must do, run some music thru them for, I dunno, five days.   It can even be digital.  The idea is to exercise the driver and their surrounds.  Rock and roll would be A-ok. 

[Dyne Analytics]

If you believe drivers break in (as I do), may I suggest running a brand new raw driver (not in an enclosure) with a sine wave at or near its resonance.  The required power level is very low and thus, there is little chance of burning the voice coil.  And, the VC excurions are very high which significantly cools the coil.   

And remember, if the driver has a vented VC, setting the driver on a table will block the vent; not a good idea.

[charmerci]

Another chance to have your views expressed in the Enclosures forum - with a poll!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104688.0

[J Fallows]

Now, that's what I call broken in.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104639.0