[Chrisandalex1]

I have spent the last week researching all my cabling needs and as a result I found myself calling Dave at Zenwave.  I am really glad I did, and I can't wait to get everything to my house and start to enjoy.

Anyway my point is this.  WHAT A VALUE!!!

Here is a list of what we are doing:

Cable List

1.   Computer to Preamp:
    a.   Real Glass Toslink
2.   DVD to Preamp:
    a.   HDMI, Furtech N1-4
    b.   RCA Interconnect Zenwave D3’s
3.   Cable Box to Preamp
    a.   HDMI Furutech N1-4
4.   Pre amp to Amps
    a.   RCA Interconnect Zenwave D3’s
5.   Amps to Speakers
    a.   Zenwave 12g SMC – FT-211/212(G)
6.   VR4 jr Speaker Jumpers –
    a.   Zenvave 15g SMC – FT-211(G)
7.   Preamp to TV
    a.   HDMI Furutech N1-4
8.   Preamp to Sub
    a.   Custum Zenwave RCA Interconnect –
             i.   18G  UPOCC Copper Twisted Pair
            ii.   Furutech FP-101(G) plugs

Surge Protector – SurgeX SEQ

1.   14 Outlets total
    a.   8 Furutech GTX-D(R) – 4 Duplex Recepticles
    b.   6 Furutech FPX(CU) – 3 Duplex Recepticles
2.   IEC Inlet
    a.   Furutech F1-33(R)
3.   Internal Connectors
    a.   Furutech FT-210
4.   Wire
    a.   Silver Plated copper with Teflon Dielectric
5.   Electroytic Caps
    a.   upgraded to Panasonic Nichicon
6.   Power Cable
    a.   Zenwave PL11 with Furutech Plugs


What do you think this quality of products would cost if Dave didn't give us such great value?

Thanks Dave...

[Tomy2Tone]

Nice job!

Looks like you got the full Monty of ZenWave cables! 

Wow, 14 outlets on that Surgex. Is this Daves new surge protector/conditioner?

[Chrisandalex1]

Yes, this is his new SurgeX unit.  However, he needed to go a bit bigger for me to accommodate everything.  I live in Cabo San Lucas, MX and the electricity down here is really questionable.

I am pretty sure this should fix my problem.  We are also running a new dedicated panel directly from the meter just for the system.  I am pretty sure my last system was destroyed by the power that it was getting, or lack of stable power.

[DaveC113]

Hi Chris, thanks for the post and I think you'll really like your new 5.1 system! 

Speakers and subwoofer are Von Schweikert, Amps are Odyssey Kismet (x4), and Marantz's top of the line disc player and preamp.

The SurgeX will prevent harmful surges from getting to your gear and will shut down your system if there is an over or under voltage condition as well. Even where the power is stable it will lower the noise floor and provide a nice improvement in sound and picture quality.

Looks like I gotta get to work! 

[xsb7244]

Time to fan the flames.  Where is the announcement of the SurgeX  mod , the best product of its kind with the mod and the pictures?  I can see every high end system with this SurgeX mod.

[DaveC113]

Time to fan the flames.  Where is the announcement of the SurgeX  mod , the best product of its kind with the mod and the pictures?  I can see every high end system with this SurgeX mod.

I know... I'm being very conservative and doing a lot of testing in many systems but you're right... they are ready to go! I will put together some info and pricing, and make the announcement very soon! 

[xsb7244]

Dave,

What I like about the diyaudio forum is the very long threads of a certain project.  You talked a little about your speaker.  How about a thread on the building, experimenting, testing, and listening, etc. of your speaker?  Once a month on this year long or longer project you could document the progress.  This would create discussion and feedback.

[Chrisandalex1]

I am having a difficult time understanding this SurgeX conditioner and how well it will work on my system.  My concern is that we are plugging 4 amplifiers and all the other stuff into essentially 1 outlet.

What are the thoughts on this?

[Chrisandalex1]

BTW, I am totally stoked with what Dave is doing, I just want to understand better.

[Chrisandalex1]

I am assuming that this is why this SurgeX works, but I still don't really understand.

All electronic equipment has a power supply which charges-up when the power is first turned on. This causes a momentary inrush current which is typically five to ten times the normal operating current. Signal processing equipment and other low-power equipment will not individually have a problematic inrush current but, when several pieces of equipment are turned on simultaneously, there can be a large inrush. However, the real offenders are the big amplifiers, especially those with switching power supplies. Some amplifiers have inrush current limiting built-in but many do not. In the case of amplifiers with no limiting, the only thing that limits the inrush current is the resistance of the copper wire between the panel and the amplifier! Peak currents of 200 Amps have been measured with some amplifiers. Powering up even one of these amplifiers can blow a circuit breaker, and powering up two or three simultaneously almost certainly will. Relay and switch contacts can also eventually weld together when subjected to these huge inrush energies. SurgeX ICE® soft turn-on totally eliminates inrush current problems. You can connect as many pieces of equipment as you like to a SurgeX ICE® product (provided, of course, that the total load is not exceeded) and you never have to worry about the inrush current or the need to install expensive time-delay circuit breakers.

[Chrisandalex1]

I just think if I am cranking all 4 amps for some reason that this is an enormous load on 1 outlet/breaker.

[Chrisandalex1]

Dave gave me a great explanation.

The SurgeX is designed to run industrial PA equipment which will draw much more power than almost any home system, and it will do it without degrading the performance of large amplifiers... this has been tested many times. At 20 amp capacity we can draw 2400 watts, which is A LOT of wattage and even if you ran your system at it's maximum power handling I seriously doubt you will use that much power. Chances are you will use half that at most.

If you run more than one line there is a much higher chance of having a noisier system, and you'd need separate power conditioning for each line. You'd also need to run a breaker box off of the main panel placed as close to the room as possible to minimize the resistance in the ground connections. A 10 gauge dedicated line is good for 30 amps, although you have a 20 amp breaker you'll never trip it, and the 10 gauge wire is already overkill by a factor of two.

So, unless you REALLY need the power you are better off running your system on one dedicated line with the grounds tied together inside a power distribution system (the SurgeX) as close to the components as possible, this provides the least amount of resistance between component grounds and will result in a system with a lower noise floor.

This is one area where keeping it as simple as possible is the best way to go. People often over-complicate this by unnecessarily adding more lines without understanding the potential drawbacks... if you do have more than one line you really need a dedicated sub panel for your system with each line requiring it's own power distribution/conditioning. Doing this for a home system is usually huge overkill, it's completely unnecessary and often ends up having worse performance than a single line.

[DaveC113]

Hi Chris, I'd also add that the large currents being discussed in the info you quoted are when an amp turns on with it's capacitor banks empty, when the amps are in normal use you will not see such high current demands. The inrush current limiting feature will make sure you don't flip a breaker during that brief start up period, which is likely less than one second. After the cap banks are charged the instantaneous current demands will be much lower.

That is a good question though, many people make this more complicated than it needs to be. 

[Speedskater]

If you run more than one line there is a much higher chance of having a noisier system, and you'd need separate power conditioning for each line. You'd also need to run a breaker box off of the main panel placed as close to the room as possible to minimize the resistance in the ground connections.

So, unless you REALLY need the power you are better off running your system on one dedicated line with the grounds tied together inside a power distribution system (the SurgeX) as close to the components as possible, this provides the least amount of resistance between component grounds and will result in a system with a lower noise floor.

This is an important point that is often overlooked!
Short lengths of Safety Ground (PE) wire from unit to unit are a good thing.

A 10 gauge dedicated line is good for 30 amps, although you have a 20 amp breaker you'll never trip it, and the 10 gauge wire is already overkill by a factor of two.

The size of the wire has nothing to do wire the breaker tripping.

*************************************
SurgeX makes so many different products, it's hard to keep track of just which one is under discussion.

[DaveC113]

SS, the units I am working with are the SEQ and SX1120-RT.

I agree wire gauge has nothing to do with the breaker tripping, I was just pointing out 10g is already overkill on a 20 amp line. 

[beowulf]

So, would you consider this device to be non-current limiting?

[sruffle]

I am looking forward to hearing more about the SurgeX mods.  This conversation has been enlightening.  I was under the impression that it was best to keep amp and digital on separate circuits. 

[DaveC113]

Hi beowulf, in terms of the SurgeX not limiting dynamics when used with amplifiers, YES! This is one of the reasons it's taken a long time for me to release the SurgeX, I wanted to try it in many different systems before making that statement. 

Hi sruffle, if you check out my post on power here...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128309.0

...you will see why it's best to have everything plugged into one receptacle. If you use multiple lines there is more potential for voltage differences between the components that are on each circuit, as the grounds will be tied together way back at the main panel, which may result in more noise. A 20 amp circuit is more than enough for most any home system. If you do need more power then it's best to place a breaker box as close to the receptacles it will be serving as possible. With one line the component's grounds will be tied together as close as possible to the components, which is more ideal.

[Speedskater]

To repeat with emphasis!

...you will see why it's best to have everything plugged into one receptacle. If you use multiple lines there is more potential for voltage differences between the components that are on each circuit, as the grounds will be tied together way back at the main panel, which may result in more noise. A 20 amp circuit is more than enough for most any home system. If you do need more power then it's best to place a breaker box as close to the receptacles it will be serving as possible. With one line the component's grounds will be tied together as close as possible to the components, which is more ideal.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128309.0

[sruffle]

Thanks for that link.  Very educational.  I spent a lot of effort trying to get my power amp on its own circuit and everything else on a different circuit.  It sounds like this was misguided. I would guess that a 15 amp circuit would be sufficient for a simple 2 channel system.

It would greatly simplify things for me to get everything on the same circuit using a modified SurgeX product.  I will keep checking back for updates.