Looking for a great loudspeaker system

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avahifi

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« on: 13 Dec 2005, 03:56 pm »
I could use recommendations for a great loudspeaker system that is not silly priced.

Our Biro L/1s are going out of production because critical parts have become unavailable.

For full range listening (where I need deep bass performance) I am still using a set of significantly upgraded B&W 801 Series Two loudspeakers. We have reworked the crossover in accordance to the info we published in Audio Basics years ago, and have damped the tweeter and midrange enclosures and drivers. They are great speakers. I recently was able to hear a set of new B&W 800D speakers running on our new equipment and my evaluation was that they were slightly more transparent in the mid and high range, had a more solid image (they weigh 250 pounds each) but that the 800D did not have the bass reach, power, or low end definition as our 801s. And, no way am I going to pay $20,000 for a set of loudspeakers.

What I am looking for is a floor standing three way system that has at least the range of my 801s, but with better transparenecy and image capability, and anything else a new high quality speaker can give us. I also would like a price of no more than $6000 a pair (we are trying to do great audio at an affordable price you know). "Three way" is not etched in granite, I am open to other driver arrangements if they get the job done. I cannot use planar speakers, I don't have the room for them. Also I need speakers that perform well with a single stereo amp driving them, as we need that for amplifier design testing.

I am open to your suggestions.

Thanks for the help.

Frank Van Alstine

Marbles

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #1 on: 13 Dec 2005, 04:00 pm »
For a 3 way, the Salk HT3 are a bargain.

For a two way, the Ridge Street Audio Sason is GREAT.

The best speaker I have ever heard for imaging/layering..and it is made with GRANIT!!!  (since you brought that up :-)   )

http://home.comcast.net/~rothakoustic/Index_Sason/SasonLtd2005.htm

The Sason's only go down to f-3 of 38 hz, so a subwoofer might be needed for the very lowest frequencies.

Kevin Haskins

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #2 on: 13 Dec 2005, 04:31 pm »
If you lower your budget I'll send you a set of our finished 2641s.   The finished price is going to land right around $1800/pr.    

They work great as a general-purpose loudspeaker for testing because they are fairly easy to drive and represent a fairly common three-way tower configuration of moderate sensitivity.    The bass should be plenty unless your room is absolutely huge.

If you don't like em you can send them back on my dime.   The only issue I have is I won't have a pair available until after CES.

Charles Calkins

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #3 on: 13 Dec 2005, 05:02 pm »
Frank:
  Give a listen to Albert Von Schweikert's VR-4 GENIII HSE speakers. I know you will like what you hear.

                                           Cheers
                                          Charlie

ricmon

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #4 on: 13 Dec 2005, 06:35 pm »
You may want to look at VMPS.  They are a members of the AC so you can get lots of feed back from users and manufacture.

konut

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #5 on: 13 Dec 2005, 07:02 pm »
Please bare with me, I'm not trying to be argumentative. You'll STILL be using your modded B&Ws for full range auditioning and the Biro's are going out of production. Why are you looking for full range 3 ways? With all due respect, and I'm not trying to be patronising or sarcastic as I know you make great products, why arn't you looking for something to replace the stand mounted small form factor Biro's? I would like to suggest you try an audition of the Omega Aperiodic 8s. If you have eshewed single driver designs in the past, I think you'll find that the technology has evolved to the point where the old rules don't apply. They meet most of your criterion. Easy load to drive, great imaging and transperancy, and reasonably priced. 30 day return policy and customer sevice as good as your own.

rosconey

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #6 on: 13 Dec 2005, 07:09 pm »
have rick craig (ac member selah audio) do you a custom pair ,guy has a real good ear for speakers

Karsten

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #7 on: 13 Dec 2005, 09:20 pm »
The SP Tech Revelation would likely satisfy your needs, and then some

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23095

Brg,
Karsten

WEEZ

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #8 on: 13 Dec 2005, 11:40 pm »
I've never heard an AVA modified B&W-but I'd like to. The current line of B&W speakers are certainly not my cup of tea- particularly the affordable ones.

IMHO, there are (3) speaker lines that deserve an audition. They are, (in no particular order):

Fried

Merlin

Focus Audio

(Note: I said 'deserve an audition'- they are obviously not the only speakers in an endless array of speaker companies to choose from)

I admit to being a bit confused as to why a recommendation is asked for, when you have a modded B&W that you like; and you have a stand mounted speaker that you like (the Biro).

Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth- and it didn't cost you a dime..  :P

WEEZ!

Parnelli777

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #9 on: 14 Dec 2005, 12:21 am »
If no planars, then in that range I'd suggest the Martin Logan Vantage, or used, Avantgarde Duos, or Unos. Although you certainly wouldn't need 150+ watts per channel with the latter two ;^) But the 30 watts from the 70 would be perfect.

Kevin Haskins

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #10 on: 14 Dec 2005, 12:31 am »
These suggestions are all over the board.  

Come on Frank... you have been in the business long enough to know what type of speakers you like.   Why are you asking the peanut gallery for suggestions?

woodsyi

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #11 on: 14 Dec 2005, 12:42 am »
Quote from: Kevin Haskins
These suggestions are all over the board.  

Come on Frank... you have been in the business long enough to know what type of speakers you like.   Why are you asking the peanut gallery for suggestions?


HHHHmmmmm.  Perhaps because a 'nut from the gallery may chance to come up with good suggestions since it is the peanut gallery who buys and tries various types of speakers? After all each expert manufacturer is bound to be biased toward his/her design. :wink:  I don't know about the other speakers but Avant Guard horn does seam a little strange to suggest for AVA amps. :o

Skynyrd

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #12 on: 14 Dec 2005, 12:56 am »
Frank,

Although rarely mentioned here on Audocircle, some of the Legacy line deserves a recommendation.  Legacy Focus are about $7000.  Legacy Classics about $4000.  Solid engineering.  Probably too many drivers for you, though, right?

The VMPS stuff does some things right.  Hmm...Let us imagine... Brian Cheney and Frank Van Alstine pinching putty on difficult-to-reach passive radiators and offering capcitor upgrades together...
I wish the audio world was big enough for both of you together, but I'm certain that only in my listening room will products from AVA and VMPS find a connection.

I remember when you had several B and W's, and some Acoustat electrostats in your old showroom.  Loved the variety!  

Those $550 Magnepan MMG's playing along with a pair of your subs--especially with the MMG's mounted on top (subs sideways) makes for a giant killer of a speaker system.  All Minnesota/Wisconsin manufactured/assembled gear, too.  

Can't wait to hear your choice!  

Thanks for asking,
Skynyrd

NealH

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #13 on: 14 Dec 2005, 01:41 am »
Thiel will be introducing the new 3.7 next month - the replacement for the 3.6.  Might be just what you looking for - and me too.

avahifi

Refining loudspeaker requirements.
« Reply #14 on: 14 Dec 2005, 02:06 am »
I do need a loudspeaker with the bass power and definition of the 801s because I need it for full range evaluation of our amplifiers and preamplfiers.  A powered subwoofer design won't do because it then takes the make stereo amplifier out of the equation and we need to evaluate its bass performance too.

Thus smaller two way systems likely are not going to do what we need.

Thanks

Frank Van Alstine

avahifi

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #15 on: 14 Dec 2005, 02:13 am »
>>>Come on Frank... you have been in the business long enough to know what type of speakers you like. Why are you asking the peanut gallery for suggestions? <<<

Actually I am a bit of a hermit and rarely get out to listen to other stuff.  I am planning to visit the only two so called high end shops in the Minneapolis area in the next few weeks, but I have not really listened to any interesting new speakers in quite a while.

So the reason for the suggestions.

Frank Van Alstine

bhobba

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #16 on: 14 Dec 2005, 02:19 am »
Quote from: Karsten
The SP Tech Revelation would likely satisfy your needs, and then some

I seocnd that - and IMHO no need to go to the revelations either - the Timepieces look pretty good as well.  I am biased - I will shortly be buying a pair.

Thanks
Bill

ScottMayo

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #17 on: 14 Dec 2005, 02:21 am »
I'll do an inevitable plug for VMPS. People swear by them on tube amps, and it's hard to do better for imaging. If anything is wrong downstream of the speakers, they'll tell you.

A good set of RM-40s should do you nicely; the 30's would be a good choice if you are space-limited, but they won't have the very bottom octave. Worth a listen.

Usual caveat: I sell them, etc.

avahifi

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #18 on: 14 Dec 2005, 02:22 am »
I am asking for speaker recommendations because I feel a bit out of the loop using twenty year old speakers for design work, and the Biros, no matter how good, are going to be gone soon (I will keep a couple pairs for myself of course) and I would like to have something to recommend to my clients, and maybe even sell and make a few bucks on.

Frank Van Alstine

bhobba

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #19 on: 14 Dec 2005, 02:37 am »
Quote from: avahifi
I am asking for speaker recommendations because I feel a bit out of the loop using twenty year old speakers for design work, and the Biros, no matter how good, are going to be gone soon (I will keep a couple pairs for myself of course) and I would like to have something to recommend to my clients, and maybe even sell and make a few bucks on

I still think SP speakers are worth your investigation:
http://www.4sptech.com/
That waveguide technology looks like a major advance to me.  I have never seen a review of any other speaker that said:
Now Lets Go On To The Sound. What sound?? They essentially make virtually no coloring to the reproduced music. At least none that I can hear per se. I do not hear the normal "thumbprint" character that most loudspeakers exhibit in the bass response. Balance is maintained from the very low 30 Hz range to beyond the range of normal human hearing. All the talk of imaging, bloom, warmth, tiss, spit, sizzle, glare and other words used to describe the sound just does not apply here. These loudspeakers were designed for critical monitoring of recordings during the mix-down and mastering stage. What they do, is turn the electrical signal into an acoustic signature as accurately as possible, at all input levels from way below one watt RMS of power (sans low organ pedals at milliwatts) to an incredible 1,000 watts peak per channel!
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1003/sptechnology.htm
And that from a guy with over 3 decades experience in building and desinging speakers.

And that is from the previous model - the new model is even better. And Bob, the owner, besides being a really great guy, is looking for dealers.

Thanks
Bill