Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1151 times.

JonnyFive

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 276
Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« on: 29 Sep 2017, 03:05 pm »
Jim and I are brainstorming a fully active 3-way design using the bass section of the Soundscape 8s, Eton Arcosia 4" midrange, and Transducer Labs Be tweeter.

I loved the bass section of the Soundscape 8s, and I'm sure that TL Be tweeter is a great performer based on everything I've heard.

My question is the midrange driver.  Those who have heard both the Accuton and Eton midrange, can you chime in on your thoughts between the two?  Are they similar in sound or do they have distinctly different characters?  Are there any other midrange drivers worth considering?

Thanks for the input!

Carl V

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 466
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #1 on: 29 Sep 2017, 03:36 pm »
You might want to Ping this question in the SELAH Circle.
I believe Rick has used these Midwoofers.

Jim & his Team can work wonders for you.

an Acquaintance has Eggelstons Works he started With ANDRAs
and now has VIGNINTIs.  They sound great.  The SAVOYs are
amazing, amazingly expensive, large & Heavy.

DEP14

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 140
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #2 on: 2 Oct 2017, 02:18 am »
I would love to see that built and have a chance to demo it.  I bounced around something like that with Jim a bit, but then I know he was working on the Song 3's... haven't heard those yet.

But, if you do that I'd love to drive over to Pontiac and hear them before they ship to you!

JonnyFive

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 276
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #3 on: 2 Oct 2017, 02:14 pm »
Carl V - thanks for the input!

Dep - of course you can head over and take a listen if we go ahead with the design!  What idea were you bouncing around with Jim?

will mac

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #4 on: 3 Oct 2017, 12:19 pm »
 debating buying Eton's and accutons for a while.  Then noticed a new 3" Eton symphony 2 hex with phase plug and nice compact neo magnet.  No download from eton as of yet

DEP14

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 140
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #5 on: 4 Oct 2017, 10:33 pm »

Dep - of course you can head over and take a listen if we go ahead with the design!  What idea were you bouncing around with Jim?

Well, I know Jim for a while was kicking around a 3 way active speaker and that was of interest.  I like a little extra thump in the low end, I also tend to listen loud.  I like some extra snap in the midrange, but don't want things to get bright either, and I'm a bit weird about cymbals in a mix (I don't want to hear cymbals come too far forward).

There are a lot of things I loved about the SS8's, but wanted a shade more low end thump, and a little different character up high.  I like a bigger sound.  So we talked a bit about an active 3 way using a Seas Midrange, I think it was a higher end, but paper one, and possibly that Be tweeter he uses.

I won't deny though that I do really like the Esotar2 tweeter from Dyn, I wish they sold them separately still.  Would love to cook up something with Jim and Dennis.

Jim was working on the Song 3's, and I've yet to hear those. 

I ended up after a demo really liking the new DynAudio Contour 60's, so ended up with a pair.  They are not perfect, but I do really like a lot about them (if I could only cross them with a SS8...) and I'm running a pass labs 250.8 and XP12 for music now.  It's pretty great as a combo.

But, I'll end up with something from Jim again I'm sure.  Probably not a matter of if as much as when... so if you build those, I have to give them a listen.

Tomy2Tone

Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #6 on: 4 Oct 2017, 11:36 pm »
I'll throw in the Audio Tech mid driver as another option to consider. I've heard both the Accuton and Audio Tech and feel the Audio Tech can be just as detailed but offers a bit more warmth and natural sound. Johzel had Jim brew up a pair of Song 3's with the BE tweeter and Audio Tech mid pictured here in this thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147571.msg1578596#msg1578596

The top section of that Song 3 with a bottom end of a SS8 would be sweet but I'm guessing those Song 3's are pretty damn good in their own right. Would love to hear them someday.

johzel

Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #7 on: 5 Oct 2017, 11:56 am »
I'll throw in the Audio Tech mid driver as another option to consider. I've heard both the Accuton and Audio Tech and feel the Audio Tech can be just as detailed but offers a bit more warmth and natural sound. Johzel had Jim brew up a pair of Song 3's with the BE tweeter and Audio Tech mid pictured here in this thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147571.msg1578596#msg1578596

The top section of that Song 3 with a bottom end of a SS8 would be sweet but I'm guessing those Song 3's are pretty damn good in their own right. Would love to hear them someday.

These Song 3's are VERY damn good in their own right.  It's my understanding they would be a standard selection but the Audio Tech drivers aren't always readily available.  Price wise, they're positioned between the Song3 A's and the Song3 Encores. If you're ever in my area you'd be more than welcome to give them a listen.  They're spending a bit of time in their boxes currently as we're building a new house.

JonnyFive

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 276
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #8 on: 5 Oct 2017, 01:06 pm »
Johzel and Tommy-

Based on driver materials alone, and based on my preference towards a warmer sounding speaker, I would probably favor the AT mid over the Eton.

However, the 8" drivers in the bass section of the SS8s are aluminum, the tweeter we're considering is Beryllium, so would it make sense to go metal W - soft M - metal T ?

I don't know if the timbre match would sound right?

 

DMurphy

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1453
    • SalkSound
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #9 on: 5 Oct 2017, 04:16 pm »
I'll throw in the Audio Tech mid driver as another option to consider. I've heard both the Accuton and Audio Tech and feel the Audio Tech can be just as detailed but offers a bit more warmth and natural sound. Johzel had Jim brew up a pair of Song 3's with the BE tweeter and Audio Tech mid pictured here in this thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147571.msg1578596#msg1578596

The top section of that Song 3 with a bottom end of a SS8 would be sweet but I'm guessing those Song 3's are pretty damn good in their own right. Would love to hear them someday.

I would agree that the AT has a warmer sound than the Accuton, but I wouldn't agree that it's as detailed.  We did an instant A-B test with two speakers with identical woofers and tweeters, and that measured the same in terms of frequency response, and the difference in midrange detail was quite evident.  We sprang for the Accuton for that speaker, but I can see where some would prefer the AT.  It's just another of the many audio trade-offs. 

JonnyFive

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 276
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #10 on: 5 Oct 2017, 04:36 pm »
I would agree that the AT has a warmer sound than the Accuton, but I wouldn't agree that it's as detailed.  We did an instant A-B test with two speakers with identical woofers and tweeters, and that measured the same in terms of frequency response, and the difference in midrange detail was quite evident.  We sprang for the Accuton for that speaker, but I can see where some would prefer the AT.  It's just another of the many audio trade-offs.

Thanks Dennis!!

What about the magnesium Eton versus the AT?

And is there a hard and fast rule for mixing hard versus soft drivers?  Do you get a timbre mismatch in the crossover region?

DMurphy

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1453
    • SalkSound
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #11 on: 6 Oct 2017, 12:59 am »
I've never compared the Eton with the Accuton in a controlled fashion.  I can't say that I've had to take driver material into account when designing crossovers, other than to deal with breakup modes.  For example, I wouldn't boost the output of the AT or tilt it up in order to get more detail.   That's just asking for problems in the frequency domain. 

JonnyFive

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 276
Re: Midrange Drivers in a 3 Way Active Design
« Reply #12 on: 6 Oct 2017, 02:10 pm »
I've never compared the Eton with the Accuton in a controlled fashion.  I can't say that I've had to take driver material into account when designing crossovers, other than to deal with breakup modes.  For example, I wouldn't boost the output of the AT or tilt it up in order to get more detail.   That's just asking for problems in the frequency domain.

Thanks Dennis.  I wasn't suggesting to alter the FR of the soft AT mid driver to match.  I was just wondering if the dual aluminum 8" Wavecors at the top of their range sound so different than the 4" AT at the bottom of its operating range, that the summed waveform wouldn't sound right due to different driver materials.