Budget Stereo Amplifiers

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cujobob

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Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« on: 6 Dec 2016, 09:11 pm »
Hey all,

Been getting back into audio a bit and have been looking at stereo preamps and power amps.

What do you all think would be the best way to build up your system if you were to spend between 400-800 on used or new gear? In my case, even though it's the C&C circle, I would perhaps consider raising budget if something stellar was available.

Onkyo and Yamaha have some decent priced options for power amps one can often get refurbished. Also considering Parasound Zamp (or possibly A23), Emotiva BasX, used gear, and gainclones.

For preamps I don't want any integrated DAC or anything like that as those change often and I'd like to have gear I can use for some time. Some options: the new Schiit, the Parasound Zpre, Emotiva, and a few others that slip my mind as I type this out.

I've also considered integrated amplifiers, but unless there's one with insane performance that isn't overly pricey, I think separates may be more fun long-term.

The Parasound Zpre and Zamp have a lot of stellar reviews and I haven't seen many bad reviews of either product. Schiit has been making some great stuff for the desktop arena and is looking good, too.

Ultimately, I'd like to have some good current on tap, but probably won't need a huge amount of watts, 100-120 at most. I have fairly small rooms, but like the ability to power any speaker (because, let's be honest, it's fun to try different speakers).

So what do you guys think? Any opinions on brands mentioned or options you've tried?

mcgsxr

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #1 on: 6 Dec 2016, 10:29 pm »
As my back up (and rational reality check) I keep a Yamaha A-S500 integrated around. 

I find it remarkable.  For the $ I paid used, I know I cannot beat it ($200 Canadian, so roughly $145 USD).

I do ultimately prefer the combo of my NuForce preamp and Audio Refinement amplifier, but they represent a good 4x the investment.

bacobits1

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #2 on: 6 Dec 2016, 10:59 pm »
Not my ad, but check out that used Redgum i35.

timind

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #3 on: 7 Dec 2016, 12:03 am »
Cheap? Get a Hafler DH220 for $100, recap it for around another $100, reset bias and DC offset (easy procedure) and enjoy. Very smooth MOSFET sound with a seemingly indestructible build.

Not the prettiest amp though.

I honestly couldn't count the number of amps I've owned; Class D, class A, Class A/B, tube, tube hybrid and probably others. ANd after all of the searches, this inexpensive Hafler is the last power amp I'll buy. It satisfies my taste.

bacobits1

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #4 on: 7 Dec 2016, 12:11 am »
Always liked MOSFET's

S Clark

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #5 on: 7 Dec 2016, 12:34 am »
Always liked MOSFET's
The old Moscode 300's are cheapish and pretty good, just hard to get serviced. 

cujobob

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #6 on: 7 Dec 2016, 12:45 am »
Cheap? Get a Hafler DH220 for $100, recap it for around another $100, reset bias and DC offset (easy procedure) and enjoy. Very smooth MOSFET sound with a seemingly indestructible build.

Not the prettiest amp though.

I honestly couldn't count the number of amps I've owned; Class D, class A, Class A/B, tube, tube hybrid and probably others. ANd after all of the searches, this inexpensive Hafler is the last power amp I'll buy. It satisfies my taste.

Appreciate this thought, I probably will get one just to work on for the DIY fun if they're that inexpensive.

cujobob

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #7 on: 7 Dec 2016, 02:08 am »
As my back up (and rational reality check) I keep a Yamaha A-S500 integrated around. 

I find it remarkable.  For the $ I paid used, I know I cannot beat it ($200 Canadian, so roughly $145 USD).

I do ultimately prefer the combo of my NuForce preamp and Audio Refinement amplifier, but they represent a good 4x the investment.

I've heard really good things about those Yamaha units, what about the higher end pieces you have? Does either stand out?

My favorite system of electronics was a Mapletree Audio preamp and Rawson F5 clone amp which was simply amazing. Not sure if I'll go tube pre again or not. I have a powerful tube power amp still but it just isn't practical in most set ups given the size, clearance needed, maintenance, heat, etc.

Johnny2Bad

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #8 on: 7 Dec 2016, 09:41 am »
You should have no trouble finding a used Bryston B-60 for your $800 or less budget. Will even meet your 100 wpc requirement with 4 ohm speakers. Would beat everything I've read above for suggestions. Pre Out and Main In so you can audition all the separates you want in search of something better down the road (good luck without putting out real money). Might even come with time left on the factory warranty.

JLM

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #9 on: 7 Dec 2016, 12:21 pm »
Deleted

mcgsxr

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #10 on: 7 Dec 2016, 12:47 pm »
The Audio Refinement amp is making me very happy, and was not expensive.  I bought 2 locally, and sold one off for what I paid - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146537.0.

Based on my experience with the power amp, you may consider either of the AR Complete integrateds for sale here on AC.


I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #11 on: 7 Dec 2016, 03:54 pm »
I would look to the used market. If wanting new, consider Nuprime, Peachtree, Cambridge Audio CXA80.  Take a look here for discounts on Integrated amps.  I have bought from them before with no issues.

Many receivers or integrated amps now have built in DAC's which you do not have to use.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/integratedamp/home-audio/receivers-amps/integrated-amps/1.html

Another option is the Outlaw Audio RR2150 which has had excellent reviews for years-

https://outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

fredgarvin

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #12 on: 7 Dec 2016, 06:18 pm »
Schiit has a new power amp coming in Jan., I think. $699. 100 watts 8ohm 200 4ohm.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/10/saga-freya-vidar-three-fresh-pieces-of-schiit-from-rmaf-2016/

Pete Schumacher

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #13 on: 8 Dec 2016, 12:32 am »
Hey all,

Been getting back into audio a bit and have been looking at stereo preamps and power amps.

What do you all think would be the best way to build up your system if you were to spend between 400-800 on used or new gear? In my case, even though it's the C&C circle, I would perhaps consider raising budget if something stellar was available.

Onkyo and Yamaha have some decent priced options for power amps one can often get refurbished. Also considering Parasound Zamp (or possibly A23), Emotiva BasX, used gear, and gainclones.

For preamps I don't want any integrated DAC or anything like that as those change often and I'd like to have gear I can use for some time. Some options: the new Schiit, the Parasound Zpre, Emotiva, and a few others that slip my mind as I type this out.

I've also considered integrated amplifiers, but unless there's one with insane performance that isn't overly pricey, I think separates may be more fun long-term.

The Parasound Zpre and Zamp have a lot of stellar reviews and I haven't seen many bad reviews of either product. Schiit has been making some great stuff for the desktop arena and is looking good, too.

Ultimately, I'd like to have some good current on tap, but probably won't need a huge amount of watts, 100-120 at most. I have fairly small rooms, but like the ability to power any speaker (because, let's be honest, it's fun to try different speakers).

So what do you guys think? Any opinions on brands mentioned or options you've tried?

I absolutely LOVE my vintage Sansui G8000 receiver.  You can bypass the preamp section if you want to but there's really no need.  I bought mine about 20 years ago for $150 in perfect working condition and recently had it recapped for another $150.  What a deal!

Massive power supply around a big toroid, 120 W/ch and over 200W into 4 Ohm.  Very quiet and powerful.  I'm using it right now and feeding it with a small media server running Foobar2000 on Windows 10 that sends audio via HDMI output to an audio extractor that sends analog via RCA to the input of the Sansui.  It's all controlled with an Amazon Fire tablet or my iPhone. 

You can acquire a very good condition unit on-line for around $600.



Letitroll98

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #14 on: 8 Dec 2016, 04:32 am »
Good selections all, a couple pushing guidelines a bit.  I know the op said $800, but that makes it really hard to make a C&C system around it.  Guidelines say no more than $400 for any one component, we also have a $200 slush fund and nothing says we can't apply it all on one component, so $600 and you're still in.  Exceptions are always considered if they make sense and are in a system that comes in under $1200 ($1000 plus $200 slush).  I don't think the op would mind spending less, but you gotta sell it if you got him spending more.  Maybe suggest a virtual C&C system around your amp, or something else that explains why your component deserves an exception.  Of course the op can buy whatever he wants, it's rather for us to follow guidelines in our suggestions.  And again, good job on those suggestions, some innovative thinking there.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #15 on: 8 Dec 2016, 05:10 am »
There are some great buys on Integrated amps from Cambridge Audio, Rotel and Vincent audio for under $700 on Audiogon right now. 

cujobob

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #16 on: 9 Dec 2016, 09:09 pm »
Good selections all, a couple pushing guidelines a bit.  I know the op said $800, but that makes it really hard to make a C&C system around it.  Guidelines say no more than $400 for any one component, we also have a $200 slush fund and nothing says we can't apply it all on one component, so $600 and you're still in.  Exceptions are always considered if they make sense and are in a system that comes in under $1200 ($1000 plus $200 slush).  I don't think the op would mind spending less, but you gotta sell it if you got him spending more.  Maybe suggest a virtual C&C system around your amp, or something else that explains why your component deserves an exception.  Of course the op can buy whatever he wants, it's rather for us to follow guidelines in our suggestions.  And again, good job on those suggestions, some innovative thinking there.

I do appreciate everyone's suggestions so far. In my case, I'm willing to explore all options as value plays a role in my purchase, which is why I posted it in this forum, specifically. I see it like this...if I can get an amp that satisfies my power requirements and sounds amazing, it will prevent me from constantly buying and selling gear just to end up in that same spot. That being said, by identifying my initial dollar figure, it allows people to realize that a $2,000 amp likely won't make sense for someone like me. So I totally respect laying out limits for the circle, however, value minded folks do tend to think alike so hopefully some leniency can exist.

Currently I've been reviewing a few options for power amps:

Schiit Vidar
Hafler 220 rebuilt with a new design from Qua-Co on ebay
Parasound HCA


I've mostly written off new power amps except for the Schiit because of compromises in the design which may lead me to just upgrade them eventually anyways. Hafler amps without upgrades could be considered, but in all honesty, I hate the idea of an amp that is likely far out of spec with old electrolytic caps. Some of the other options from Yamaha, Cambridge, Rotel, Vincent, and the like were also considered but I don't think they will sound as good as a higher current amplifier with some of the speakers I'm considering. Eventually, I may consider getting some electrostats but...I can't afford them at the moment, haha. The JBL Studio series is fantastic and affordable, but they too like current. I have some other easier to drive speakers, but those are always easy to find amplification for. I'm still taking ideas if anyone has ideas, of course! This has been a very helpful thread. If I purchase the Hafler with mods, it will run me near $1000 as it is basically a brand new product. That's in the territory of a Parasound A23 and other amps brand new.


For preamps: Still looking into this. The Schiit model is very tempting, but I will wait for some more reviews. Every Schiit product seems to impress and be well regarded. The MAD preamp I had was fantastic though more than I would like to spend at this time. I may stick with the Zpre because of it's flexibility and cost. Sound quality has always been number one to me, so not sure.


What's everyone's favorite budget preamp? Would a MOSFET based amp of similar power be a noticeable improvement from something like a Parasound HCA1000?

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #17 on: 10 Dec 2016, 02:47 am »
Give some consideration to a Peachtree Nova 150.  150wpc and 300 at 4 ohms.  Peachtree amps drive Magnepans without difficulty.   They have plenty of current.  Its an integrated with a DAC but may be more than you want to spend. 

For a budget preamp if you decide to go with a separate amp, give consideration to the AVA T-10

RDavidson

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #18 on: 10 Dec 2016, 05:02 am »
You should really consider the speakers and the amp as a sub-system within the whole system, not just as separate pieces. Synergy, not only in terms of sound reproduction characteristics but also electrical characteristics, is really key when choosing an amp & speaker pairing. To simplify the goal of choosing an amp, it's usually most helpful to pick your speakers first...especially due to the very wide variety of speaker types / designs to choose from.

JLM

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Re: Budget Stereo Amplifiers
« Reply #19 on: 10 Dec 2016, 12:06 pm »
You should really consider the speakers and the amp as a sub-system within the whole system, not just as separate pieces. Synergy, not only in terms of sound reproduction characteristics but also electrical characteristics, is really key when choosing an amp & speaker pairing. To simplify the goal of choosing an amp, it's usually most helpful to pick your speakers first...especially due to the very wide variety of speaker types / designs to choose from.

 :thumb: :thumb:

Yes, keep in mind that the amp's only job is to serve the speakers.  Along that line, consider buying active speakers: manufacturer picks a synergistic match of amp to each driver; saves you the cost and space of separates; eliminates the cost of speaker cable and an extra pair of connectors per speaker; cuts through the audiophile B.S. of amps/cables; gains all the functional advantages of active design which includes greater dynamics, improved frequency response, and fuller/deeper bass.  My favorite budget example:  JBL LSR305's (current street price = $200/pair); compact 2-way design with F3 = 41 Hz; you'd probably have to drop 4 times the cash to equal their performance with passive speakers plus a power amp and cables.