Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers

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BrassEar

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Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« on: 29 Jan 2015, 07:11 pm »
Looks like Randy is becoming a speaker manufacturer. Seems like a nice guy and he seems to know what he is doing. I wish him well.

http://www.caintuckaudio.com/

xsb7244

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #1 on: 15 Apr 2015, 07:35 pm »

rabbit

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #2 on: 25 Jun 2015, 02:23 pm »
frankly these speakers are a disaster.

no consideration for polarresponse or powerresponse.
a dome tweeter with 10-15" woofers will never work regardless of crossover (and these have none)
woofers running fullrange, adding ever more beaming and distortion.
chaos response over the dipole-peak, also into the midrange, ongoing to a monopole dome tweeter with no dispersion control that wont even look like the response coming of the woofer.
simplest way to make these speakers "work" is with a waveguide and compression driver, then add a mandatory minidsp for EQ and cross it around 1.3khz 12db.

hawthorne heritage is not surprising with design choices like these...

Davey

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #3 on: 25 Jun 2015, 02:45 pm »
frankly these speakers are a disaster.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that.
However, it's not clear there was no consideration for polar response.  Some designers just do not think that is an important aspect of speaker system design and prioritize it very low (if at all) on the to-do list.  That may be the case here.

Dave.

opnly bafld

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #4 on: 25 Jun 2015, 05:07 pm »
They sure sound good with a (poor measuring) tube amp.  :thumb:

doorman

Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #5 on: 25 Jun 2015, 05:26 pm »
frankly these speakers are a disaster.

no consideration for polarresponse or powerresponse.
a dome tweeter with 10-15" woofers will never work regardless of crossover (and these have none)
woofers running fullrange, adding ever more beaming and distortion.
chaos response over the dipole-peak, also into the midrange, ongoing to a monopole dome tweeter with no dispersion control that wont even look like the response coming of the woofer.
simplest way to make these speakers "work" is with a waveguide and compression driver, then add a mandatory minidsp for EQ and cross it around 1.3khz 12db.

hawthorne heritage is not surprising with design choices like these...
So, you must either have a pair or have heard them ?
-I've not heard them.

hibuckhobby

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #6 on: 25 Jun 2015, 07:33 pm »
frankly these speakers are a disaster.

no consideration for polarresponse or powerresponse.
a dome tweeter with 10-15" woofers will never work regardless of crossover (and these have none)
woofers running fullrange, adding ever more beaming and distortion.
chaos response over the dipole-peak, also into the midrange, ongoing to a monopole dome tweeter with no dispersion control that wont even look like the response coming of the woofer.
simplest way to make these speakers "work" is with a waveguide and compression driver, then add a mandatory minidsp for EQ and cross it around 1.3khz 12db.

hawthorne heritage is not surprising with design choices like these...

Hmmm...just 6 posts all in this catagory.  You may be brilliant and wise, but certainly not a
Known commodity here.  Maybe you could slow your roll just a skosh.
Hibuck....


Davey

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #7 on: 25 Jun 2015, 08:26 pm »
In some folks minds, creating an open-baffle system is as simple as taking away the box.  However, open-baffle designs are actually much more complicated than box designs.  :)  I think quite a few audiophiles don't appreciate that.

Cheers,

Dave.

steve f

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #8 on: 25 Jun 2015, 08:31 pm »
Calling a speaker a "disaster" without an evaluation is absolutely unfair.

steve

rabbit

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #9 on: 25 Jun 2015, 09:07 pm »
im sure he means well. thou iv seen alot of credible criticism of speakers and electronics across the internet that do not sit well with owners and dealers etc. just because it's coincident doesn't mean one can ignore the foundation of good speaker design...
listening is not necessary with these imo. (but i have tried a few like hawthorne, bastanis, pureaudio project and it didnt work) speaker basics has been understood for a long time, which is why so many in the store look so much alike ;)
wouldnt be hard to improve on these, even for a 2-way. but in OB 3-way is a minimum to get it right. or else i would choose a closed box.
i would advice purchasing a minidsp 2x4 and play with it and a selection of drivers and waveguides. pretty good learning tool, immediate response in a short time.


guest42212

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #10 on: 30 Jun 2015, 10:44 pm »
Are you people missing the fact that the drivers are coaxial ?

opnly bafld

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #11 on: 30 Jun 2015, 11:05 pm »
Are you people missing the fact that the drivers are coaxial ?

Somebody is missing something here.  :scratch:
Better check again.

Squidspeak

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #12 on: 7 Sep 2015, 07:11 pm »
im sure he means well. thou iv seen alot of credible criticism of speakers and electronics across the internet that do not sit well with owners and dealers etc. just because it's coincident doesn't mean one can ignore the foundation of good speaker design...
listening is not necessary with these imo. (but i have tried a few like hawthorne, bastanis, pureaudio project and it didnt work) speaker basics has been understood for a long time, which is why so many in the store look so much alike ;)
wouldnt be hard to improve on these, even for a 2-way. but in OB 3-way is a minimum to get it right. or else i would choose a closed box.
i would advice purchasing a minidsp 2x4 and play with it and a selection of drivers and waveguides. pretty good learning tool, immediate response in a short time.
Is this peter rabbit that has been banned from other forums for trolling, sorry if I'm wrong but I have
a hunch here.

frperdurabo

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #13 on: 23 Sep 2015, 02:21 am »
The pricing is certainly reasonable, and as someone who likes open baffle speakers but doesn't have access to woodworking space/tools, they look appealing.  But the lack of any specs or measurements is off-putting.  The DIYSOUNDGROUP pages are a good example of the kind of documentation I'd like to see.

Still, kudos for pursuing his dream and trying to make it real.  I wish him the best.  He just won't be getting an order from me until he shows some FR, polars, phase, and impedance plots.  Measurements don't tell the whole story, but they tell something.

(Sigh)  If these things worked, they'd be exactly what I'm looking for right now.

opnly bafld

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #14 on: 23 Sep 2015, 02:57 am »
That's too bad because I can only recall having two pairs of speakers with measurements like that and let's just say they didn't end up on my favorite speaker list.
My ears must have measured something different than the mic.

frperdurabo

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #15 on: 23 Sep 2015, 03:01 am »
That's too bad because I can only recall having two pairs of speakers with measurements like that and let's just say they didn't end up on my favorite speaker list.
My ears must have measured something different than the mic.

I'm not sure I follow; are you saying you've had speakers that measured well and sounded bad?

opnly bafld

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #16 on: 23 Sep 2015, 03:16 am »
Sounded bad?
No, more like I have had (and heard) speakers that I have no idea how they would measure (but I suspect poorly*) that I liked better.


*whatever that means (IME what the guys designing "good" measuring speakers call it  :wink: )

G Georgopoulos

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #17 on: 23 Sep 2015, 07:31 am »
In some folks minds, creating an open-baffle system is as simple as taking away the box.  However, open-baffle designs are actually much more complicated than box designs.  :)  I think quite a few audiophiles don't appreciate that.

Cheers,

Dave.

Dave ,it is simpler than the ported box and sealed box,trust me,ob speakers demand good drivers however if there is a chance to compete for bass with boxed speakers...

RDavidson

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #18 on: 23 Sep 2015, 01:31 pm »
I'm not sure I follow; are you saying you've had speakers that measured well and sounded bad?

Measurements don't fully inform one of how speakers sound. They're merely an aspect of it. Granted, if the speakers measure well, there's a better chance of them sounding "good" at least to some people. One should never blindly (deafly?) buy speakers based on measurements alone....unless maybe they're to be used in a very controlled environment like a recording studio, where they are more of a tool for the job, rather than an instrument for listening enjoyment.

frperdurabo

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Re: Caintuck Open Baffle Loudspeakers
« Reply #19 on: 8 Nov 2015, 03:31 pm »
Measurements don't fully inform one of how speakers sound. They're merely an aspect of it. Granted, if the speakers measure well, there's a better chance of them sounding "good" at least to some people. One should never blindly (deafly?) buy speakers based on measurements alone....unless maybe they're to be used in a very controlled environment like a recording studio, where they are more of a tool for the job, rather than an instrument for listening enjoyment.

Back when I had a house I did a lot of speaker building, and honestly was surprised at how closely measurements tracked sound quality ... maybe it comes with experience. 

While I wouldn't recommend buying a speaker based only on measurements (I did it once, with an Econowave speaker from Audiokarma's project, and was not disappointed), I wouldn't buy a speaker sound unheard without them.

I'm going to build either Martin King's Fostex/Alpha or Manzanita Ultra project this winter (I have a basement and some woodworking tools again) - the measurements for both are quite good.  I'll report on that experiment in this forum.

I do like tube amps, including SETS, which measure badly - but that's because when used as designed, they're "good enough."