[Guy 13]

Maybe consider ît will help understand Guy prob.
The HD600 have more treble SPL than the HD650
The HD650 have more bass and less treble than the 600
Guy ears are aged to treble, the result is a anemic sound that Guy report for the 650 and a better performance for the 600.
Blue line HD600....RED line HD650:

Hi FULLRANGEMAN.
Yes, my ears are old, 66 years old and they are now probably limited to 14 to 16KHz.
I know that and it won't get better with time, it's like the plumbing of a house, does it get better with time? No.
The same with my ears and many ohter parts of my body.
I know and my wife keeps reminding me, I hate that !
Now tell me why with my sound system I don't have the problem
I have with my HD650 ? ? ?
Please tell me.
The headphones are used by many as a sound reference ? ? ?
Now, the soundstage is a different matter and here, I am not talking about that.
Only the fact that I seems to have no harmonics, no life in comparison to my system. (Omega 7F)

Guy 13
 

[JohnR]

Hi Guy, have you tried computer-based audio at all? If you were to rip your CDs and playback from your computer then you can use JRiver and apply some EQ. I tried "undoing" the curve posted by FRM and it does make the 650 sound different... Of course, computer-based audio introduces other issues which you may not be wanting to deal with....

[Rocket]

Hi Guy,

I'm not anywhere near as experienced as you are with headphone listening and component selection.  But are you after similar sound quality to your main system?  I think it would be hard to achieve but who knows and I'm sure other more experienced headphone listeners might be able to comment.

Cheers Rod

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy, have you tried computer-based audio at all? If you were to rip your CDs and playback from your computer then you can use JRiver and apply some EQ. I tried "undoing" the curve posted by FRM and it does make the 650 sound different... Of course, computer-based audio introduces other issues which you may not be wanting to deal with....

Hi JohnR.
I am not ready to start playing music via a computer.
My table top computer and my laptop are really for work.
Maybe one day I will change my mind,
but I don't think it will be tomorrow and maybe not even after tomorrow.
Thanks anyway for your suggestion.

Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,

I'm not anywhere near as experienced as you are with headphone listening and component selection.  But are you after similar sound quality to your main system?  I think it would be hard to achieve but who knows and I'm sure other more experienced headphone listeners might be able to comment.

Cheers Rod

Hi Rod.
The more time I spend with my headphones and my sound system,
the more I am convinced that my headphone will never give me
the same enjoyment as my full size sound system.

Guy 13

[Rocket]

Hi Guy,

Like I said I'm not that experienced with headphones systems and will defer to many of the guys here in the headphone mania circle.  You have quite a special sound that you have put together as your main hifi system.  Whilst I thought my system was more detailed your speaker/amp combination has a naturalness that my system just doesn't achieve.  Perhaps it is the tube amplifier and open back speakers that created what I was hearing.

Btw this little JDS Labs Objective 2 portable headphone amplifier drives the Sennheiser HD650's really well.

Cheers Rod

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,

Like I said I'm not that experienced with headphones systems and will defer to many of the guys here in the headphone mania circle.  You have quite a special sound that you have put together as your main hifi system.  Whilst I thought my system was more detailed your speaker/amp combination has a naturalness that my system just doesn't achieve.  Perhaps it is the tube amplifier and open back speakers that created what I was hearing.

Btw this little JDS Labs Objective 2 portable headphone amplifier drives the Sennheiser HD650's really well.

Cheers Rod

Hi Rod.
Thanks for your comments about the sound of my system that you have heard.
I always like when someone that has audition my sytem tell me how
he finds the sound of my system.
Of course my system sound very different than yours, because it is different.
As you mentioned, mine has tubes and is Open Baffle Speakers.
I am glad to read that you like your new combo HD650 and O2.

Guy 13
 

[FullRangeMan]

Now tell me why with my sound system I don't have the problem
I have with my HD650 ? ? ?

Only the fact that I seems to have no harmonics, no life in comparison to my system. (Omega 7F)

Seems your GR and Omega speakers are more musical and resolution than the 650 small driver.
The 650 driver have plastic cone and the others drivers use paper cones.
Maybe it have to do with what purpose Sennheiser modeled the 650 sound.
My 2 cents.

[Rocket]

Hi,

The GR Research and Omega is a great match.

Cheers Rod

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
In comparison to my Sennheiser HD650,
my Omega 7F and GR Research subwoofer combo is:
Less veiled and dark.
More resolving.
More micro details.
A lot more ambiance.
Much bigger sound stage.
The bass is more natural and room filling.
And more good things for which I cannot find words to describe it.
It's not a perfect system, many will claim that it sounds... Not too good, colored, thin, etc...
But it sure makes me happy and I am sure many AC and/or audiophiles
cannot say the same with their system.
Making me happy, is isn't the most important thing?
Yes, there is better, but how deep in my empty pockets will I have to go.
I am right now thinking seriously about what I will do with my HD650
and chances are that I will keep them...
Unless my wife wins the jack pot at the lottery, then, it will be a pair of STAX.
 
Guy 13

[Rocket]

Hi Guy,

As I've previously said you have combined some good components in your system to obtain a really nice sound.  Your system does things that mine doesn't and cost me a bundle of more money.  I don't think you'll obtain the sound quality from your headphone combo that compares with your main system.  I'm not that experienced with headphones at all but I wouldn't expect that you could? 

I'm liking what I hear because I'm listening to music that isn't audiophile quality but still sounds good with my headphones.

Cheers Rod

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,

As I've previously said you have combined some good components in your system to obtain a really nice sounding system.  Your system does things that mine doesn't and cost me a bundle of more money.  I don't think you'll obtain the sound quality from your headphone combo that compares with your main system.  I'm not that experienced with headphones at all but I wouldn't expect that you could? 

I'm liking what I hear because I'm listening to music that isn't audiophile quality but still sounds good with my headphones.

Cheers Rod

Hi Rod.
Thanks (Again) for the nice words about my system.
Even if I could buy the best Stax headphones;
I am sure that it would not equal some of the qualities of my main system
and would cost as much if not more.
I am glad to read again, that you like your HD650,
even if your music is not audiophile music,
I am sure that your HD650 headphones make your music sound better.
Enjoy.

Guy 13
   

[FullRangeMan]

Guy
I think you should sell the phones and the Crack amp, it is clear that headphones is not for you, even Stax or Orpheus, as these expensive also have small soundstage.

Recently I aware headphones are not for me too, and I would like much sell or exchange my HE400 and the the silver cable I have bought.

[Guy 13]

Guy
I think you should sell the phones and the Crack amp, it is clear that headphones is not for you, even Stax or Orpheus, as these expensive also have small soundstage.

Recently I aware headphones are not for me too, and I would like much sell or exchange my HE400 and the the silver cable I have bought.

Hi FULLRANGEMAN.
Thanks for your advice,
but, I think I will keep my Crack/HD650 combo
because it’s paid for and it works (Not to my liking.)
but still works.
I hate to sell something I’ve purchase, unless it’s not doing what it’s supposed to do and since my combo is doing what it’s supposed to do, even if it’s not to my liking, I will keep it,
unless someone is ready to give me not less than 90% of the price I paid for.
I know some AC members will tell me that it will never happen, well who knows.
It’s not because I don’t like it, that everybody won’t like it.
My Vietnamese audio friend told me that he will come to my place with his (Expensive) Audio BG NFB7 DAC unit and bring also his up-graded Bottlehead Crack headphone amplifier (The up-grade is the Speedball at 99 USD) and some nice tubes for tube rolling and maybe a pair of HD600.
Wow, to get that to my place he will need a 40 tons truck.
All the above is free of charge,
(For the test, not for the equipment itself)
well maybe it will cost me one cup of coffee,
but no beer, he might get drunk and then get sick and then vomit on my equipment.
(Sorry, bad joke.)
With our set up, we will test the RCA, optical and coaxial cables
on his DAC and on his Crack amplifier and for the same price on my Crack and even on my Decware amplifier.
That will also (For the same price) give me the chance to see/hear how good is my Rega Apollo built in DAC,
we will by-pass it with the output optical and coaxial cables.
Hopefully this will happen August 2014 and not August 2015.
(Another bad/stupid joke)
Now, what will happen if the Crack Speedball up-grade makes an improvement on the sound?
Will I spend 99 USD (Money that I don’t have) on that up-grade?
Will my 66 years old ears hear the improvement in sound?
I doubt it, but who knows, I might be wrong.
(Won’t be the first, not the last time.)
When it comes to sound improvement,
I don’t believe in words like: Huge, night and day, etc…
Will the external DAC really improve the sound to a point that it’s worth spending 500 USD+ for an external DAC?
Only that test will confirm all that
and even with a confirmation, it does not mean I will go ahead with the up-grade.
So, don’t get too far from your computer, soon you will know the answers to all those questions, of course some of you might know that already, well then, good for you.

Guy 13
     

[Rocket]

Hi Guy,

Please read the below link which details a comparison of the objective 2, crack and crack with speedball with your Sennheiser HD.  It also provides a comparison when the speedball is installed and apparently changes the sound somewhat.

http://diy.koenigs.dk/2014/03/02/bottlehead-crack-and-speedball-review/

Regards Rod

ps he also compares the objective 2 headphone amplifier that I'm using with the crack.  The crack with speedball might be worth considering.

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,

Please read the below link which details a comparison of the objective 2, crack and crack with speedball with your Sennheiser HD.  It also provides a comparison when the speedball is installed and apparently changes the sound somewhat.

http://diy.koenigs.dk/2014/03/02/bottlehead-crack-and-speedball-review/

Regards Rod

ps he also compares the objective 2 headphone amplifier that I'm using with the crack.  The crack with speedball might be worth considering.

Hi Rod.
Thanks again and again.
Your help/comments are slowly, but surely pointing me in the right direction, minds you, I am still not sure of the final destination.
Thanks for the link, I've read it all, very good review I must admit,
however, since the purchase of my HD650 based on reviews,
I now don't believe any reviews anymore.
I will wait for my Vietnamese audio friend to bring his audio stuff to my house and do a listen, only then, I will know what direction I will take, if of course, money is available, that's has been my big problem in the past year or so.
Thanks again and be sure I will keep you and other (Interested) AC members informed of what direction I will take,

Guy 13.

If I decide to go ahead and buy the Speedball,
I will get someone here on planet Vietnam to put it together for me.
I don't do any of that soldering stuff anymore.
By the way, I really want to keep my combo,
like I said before: It's paid for,
so if I can make it sound more to the liking of my 66 years old ears,
that I will stop complaining
and all AC members won't have anything to read anymore.
Well too bad for them, they will have to find another complaining guy.

[dB Cooper]

Hi Guy,
As a public service, I spent some time listening to HD600 at Capital Audiofest yesterday. They are definitely less "dark" and possibly more neutral than the HD650 (at the cost of less "heft" in the deep bass); it might be possible to swap with another user?

I have solved the "darkness" problem: With the Fidelia player in my Mac, I simply dial in just a touch of treble boost on recordings that I feel can use it. Ta-DAAH, problem solved. If your system is "straight line", this option is obviously not available.

I don't think an upgrade to the Crack is going to produce the large change you are looking for now matter how many people hear a "night and day" change by swapping out a different capacitor, cable, etc. Doing so might just be throwing good money after bad. I know am repeating myself here but if you are "locked into" the Crack, that drastically limits your headphone options because it simply will not drive low-to-medium impedance headphones well due to its very high output impedance. I'm sure it would be an easy sell here or on Audiogon, ebay etc.

As to reviews: It isn't that I don't trust reviewers, it's that they are fallible human beings too, with preferences and biases and the whole lot. Therefore I consider their take on things but I don't take anyone's word as "gospel" from on high. You know what I trust? A return privilege- and my ears. Your experience is all that matters. My preferences change with my mood. How can a reviewer know what Guy13 or dB Cooper will like, or say with certainty that they know better than either of us is right? Answer: They can't. Only thing I know for certain is that the HD650 isn't the right headphone for Guy13. Maybe a less "dark" set of cans and a low cost, low output impedance SS amp like the O2 or Schiit Magni might do the trick.

[FullRangeMan]

Only thing I know for certain is that the HD650 isn't the right headphone for Guy13. Maybe a less "dark" set of cans and a low cost, low output impedance SS amp like the O2 or Schiit Magni might do the trick.

Guy musical standards are too hi, he dont get impressed by top phones as HD800, Audezes etc...
My HE400 are nice sound to me, unless for the soundstage.

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,
As a public service, I spent some time listening to HD600 at Capital Audiofest yesterday. They are definitely less "dark" and possibly more neutral than the HD650 (at the cost of less "heft" in the deep bass); it might be possible to swap with another user?

I have solved the "darkness" problem: With the Fidelia player in my Mac, I simply dial in just a touch of treble boost on recordings that I feel can use it. Ta-DAAH, problem solved. If your system is "straight line", this option is obviously not available.

I don't think an upgrade to the Crack is going to produce the large change you are looking for now matter how many people hear a "night and day" change by swapping out a different capacitor, cable, etc. Doing so might just be throwing good money after bad. I know am repeating myself here but if you are "locked into" the Crack, that drastically limits your headphone options because it simply will not drive low-to-medium impedance headphones well due to its very high output impedance. I'm sure it would be an easy sell here or on Audiogon, ebay etc.

As to reviews: It isn't that I don't trust reviewers, it's that they are fallible human beings too, with preferences and biases and the whole lot. Therefore I consider their take on things but I don't take anyone's word as "gospel" from on high. You know what I trust? A return privilege- and my ears. Your experience is all that matters. My preferences change with my mood. How can a reviewer know what Guy13 or dB Cooper will like, or say with certainty that they know better than either of us is right? Answer: They can't. Only thing I know for certain is that the HD650 isn't the right headphone for Guy13. Maybe a less "dark" set of cans and a low cost, low output impedance SS amp like the O2 or Schiit Magni might do the trick.

Hi dB Cooper.
I would like to do a change for change between my HD650 for a HD600,
but it must be done within plane Vietnam to avoid any transport fees.
I don't use my computer as a source and it won't be tomorrow ,
no more than after tomorrow.
So, no electronic manipulation of my source.
I might be wrong, but that's how I am : Old fashion.
I could say that I am stuck with my Crack, but I am not, I like the Crack and since it's tube,
it's good for me, because with any solid state amplifiers I cannot listen to SS music for long,
look as if I am allergic to odd harmonics.
(No kidding, I found out about that when I had my Naim ss amplifier.)
I know that the Crack cannot drive low impedance headphones,
I've tried my Sennheiser HD570 - 60 Ohms headphones and they sound...
Well, not good.
I have posted my comments on the Bottlehead Forum and when I mentioned that I was not sure about the benefit of the Speedball up-grade they told me that I would definitely hear a improvement.
Of course they said that.
He's biased. He's he gona say that the up-grade is not good.
I am not sure, but I think he works for Bottlehead or he's a preacher for Bottlehead.
Both O2 or Schiit Magni are ss and as previously mentioned I am allergic to ss odd harmonics.
I am sure you are right about those two headphone amplifiers being brighter,
but I don't want to take the chance to buy them, then be disappointed.
So, for now, I will wait for my little get together with my Vietnamese audio friend and hear if the Speedball is worth the extra 99 USD.
Thanks for your comments, highly appreciated.

Guy 13
 


 
   

[Guy 13]

Guy musical standards are too hi, he dont get impressed by top phones as HD800, Audezes etc...
My HE400 are nice sound to me, unless for the soundstage.

Hi FULLRANGEMAN.
I am not sure about my musical standard being too high???
I don't think I am the only one that's asking for what I am asking from my headphones.
Yes, that's right, I did not get impressed with all the headphones I have auditioned.
Even the HD800, minds you, I have to admit that the sound of the HD800 was good,
but the comfort was missing
and the look was as beautiful as a decomposed rat in the street that has been run over
by a 40 tons truck.
Yes, I know, as usual, I exaggerate and I use too colorful wording.
As for the sound stage, it's not really a problem,
because I know no headphones have or will have the soundstage I want
or the soundstage I get from my main system,
however, as far as sound goes, my HD650 are good, minus their dark side.
Again, I will wait for my little get together with my Vietnamese audio friend.
I think after that, I will decide what direction I will take and put that issue behind me.
I will keep my Crack and my HD650, unless I can do a change for change
between the HD650 and the HD600.

Guy 13