SongBirds over bookshelf speakers?

albireo13 · « **on:** 19 Aug 2015, 05:50 pm »

Still thinking on my options for upgrading from my Studio-20 speakers on my 2.0 ch system. I'd love SongTowers but, I've decided that SongBirds may be a better choice since we plan on selling the house to downsize next year. We may rent for awhile so, I expect our listening space will be smaller.
I currently have Studio-20s on stands. The SongBirds seem much more compact and would probably sound better.

Then I started thinking ... maybe still consider bookshelf speakers. Would SongSurrounds be a better option than SongBirds?
.... or even CAOW1s?

My budget is < $1800.

Phil A · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Aug 2015, 06:04 pm »

Don't forget with bookshelf speakers you need something to put them on. Nice stands tend to cost a decent amount.

PSB Guy · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Aug 2015, 06:15 pm »

The SongBirds take up the same amount of floor space as a set of bookshelves with stands, but have much better bass extension due to the transmission lines cabinets. In a small listening room like mine, they are the perfect solution. It's said they sound very much like the SongTowers, which just makes sense. The only issue with them is their lower sensitivity, so you'll need a little more power to drive them. I use 100 watts/ch in my room and it works great.

Cornelis

albireo13 · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Aug 2015, 06:36 pm »

Yeah, I'm trying to get away from speaker stands.

I have 125w/ch with my amp so I think I'll be ok. Plus, I almost never play loud.

Gzerro · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Aug 2015, 05:54 pm »

I use Songbirds for my surrounds. I purchased mainly because of looks - I don't like stands.

They sound almost identical to Song Towers at moderate volumes, they just can't play as loud. Compared to Song Surrounds, they produce deeper bass with the trade off of not playing quite as loud.

I have been really happy with them.

billmcc · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Aug 2015, 11:00 pm »

Quote from: albireo13 on 19 Aug 2015, 05:50 pm

Still thinking on my options for upgrading from my Studio-20 speakers on my 2.0 ch system. I'd love SongTowers but, I've decided that SongBirds may be a better choice since we plan on selling the house to downsize next year. We may rent for awhile so, I expect our listening space will be smaller.
I currently have Studio-20s on stands. The SongBirds seem much more compact and would probably sound better.

Then I started thinking ... maybe still consider bookshelf speakers. Would SongSurrounds be a better option than SongBirds?
.... or even CAOW1s?

My budget is < $1800.

If at all possible I'd suggest stretching your budget and go for a pair of SongTowers. When I first ordered the STs I was concerned they'd be to big in my room. Well once the STs arrived and I set them up they fit in the room just fine. You could also consider looking for a used pair of STs which would put you right around your $1800 budget.

Bill

glangford · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Aug 2015, 10:17 am »

Supercharged Songtowers are a little smaller than the songtower.

srb · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Aug 2015, 10:24 am »

Quote from: glangford on 23 Aug 2015, 10:17 am

Supercharged Songtowers are a little smaller than the songtower.

The budget is < $1800. SongTower Supercharged is $3595.

ricardojoa · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Aug 2015, 12:23 pm »

How about song bird with upgraded woofer to seas w15, the woofer used in the SCST.

Rocket · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Aug 2015, 01:46 am »

Hi,

If it was me I would go for Songtowers. Jim occasionally sells refurbished Songtowers for $1695 which might be something to consider.

Cheers Rod

jsalk · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Aug 2015, 05:18 pm »

Quote from: Rocket on 24 Aug 2015, 01:46 am

Hi,

If it was me I would go for Songtowers. Jim occasionally sells refurbished Songtowers for $1695 which might be something to consider.

Cheers Rod

I do happen to have a used pair of SongTowers (black with pau ferro rosewood on the front baffle) that will be available soon. We are currently in the process of re-finishing the cabinets so they are like new.

- Jim

branon · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Sep 2015, 03:42 pm »

Quote from: PSB Guy on 19 Aug 2015, 06:15 pm

The SongBirds take up the same amount of floor space as a set of bookshelves with stands, but have much better bass extension due to the transmission lines cabinets. In a small listening room like mine, they are the perfect solution. It's said they sound very much like the SongTowers, which just makes sense. The only issue with them is their lower sensitivity, so you'll need a little more power to drive them. I use 100 watts/ch in my room and it works great.

Cornelis

Cornelis,

How big is your room? I really like the ST's but they are too tall for my living room (18x19, see attached picture) . I worry that the Songbirds would not be powerful enough for the room. I have the ascend sierra 2 right now- but my daughter has already knocked one over. They are fantastic speakers. While the ST's, I expect are going to be better, I don't know about the Songbirds.
-Branon

ricardojoa · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Sep 2015, 04:30 pm »

Quote from: branon on 4 Sep 2015, 03:42 pm

Cornelis,

How big is your room? I really like the ST's but they are too tall for my living room (18x19, see attached picture) . I worry that the Songbirds would not be powerful enough for the room. I have the ascend sierra 2 right now- but my daughter has already knocked one over. They are fantastic speakers. While the ST's, I expect are going to be better, I don't know about the Songbirds.
-Branon

I have both the sierra 2 and the standard ST but i havent listenedto it side by side. They are both really nice speakers. The ST have really nice romatic with great details mids. The highs are smother with the sierra 2 but the ST dome is really nice with great details. As for bass, the sierra2 has punch to it while the ST seems to dig a bit lower.

Im not sure what you mean by the ST too tall,can you explained?

branon · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Sep 2015, 05:04 pm »

Thanks for your views on the ST's vs Sierras.
I should have been clearer about the problem with the height of ST's. The sierras with the stands reach about 36 inches and as you can see they are already quite close to the bottom of the TV screen (in terms of height). The ST's are about 44 inches in height and would obstruct the view of the TV from parts of the couch. Also that TV in the corner is a 32 inch. I am planning to switch to a larger TV, which would make the situation worse.

Of course there is the other problem (applies to all speakers), there is very little distance between the speakers and the front wall.

PSB Guy · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Sep 2015, 05:26 pm »

My living room is only about 10 feet deep, so when I sit on my couch, I'm only about 8 feet from the front of the speakers. I guess you could call it near-field. Your room seems to be almost twice as deep. Looking at it from your picture, I would probably suggest the SongTowers instead of the SongBirds, which could get lost in that room. Placement near the wall is not really an issue with either the SongBirds or the SongTowers, transmission line speakers act differently than traditionally ported speakers. As for the TV, I don't know what to tell you about that...

Cornelis

JLM · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Sep 2015, 07:52 pm »

My opinions:

Pro Floor-standers - more bass, won't tip over as easily, I'm a transmission line fan

Pro Stand-mounts - height can be adjusted, can image more precisely

A friend let me hold on to his small/light stand-mounts after an audio club meeting and the next morning our 4 pound cat knocked it off the stand, "bruising" the corner. I felt sick. (2nd time a small cat has knocked over stand-mount in my house.)

Song Tower versus SongBird - Keep in mind that the MTM design of Song Tower is designed to only be heard from the equal distance of the mid/woofers (so listener height is a bigger consideration). In a transmission line design the mid/woofer location along the line is critical, obviously the mid/woofers in the Song Tower can't both be in the right location. The Song Tower is 4 dB/w/m more efficient, making it a somewhat more macro/micro dynamic speaker.

Rocket · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Sep 2015, 12:01 am »

Hi,

Buy these songbirds for $750US. Give them a listen and if you don't like them sell them for about the same price.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=136994.0

Cheers Rod

branon · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Sep 2015, 06:49 pm »

Thanks for all your answers. I will wait a little bit longer before I go through another speaker purchase cycle.

JLM, I did not quite follow what you meant by "Song Tower is designed to only be heard from the equal distance of the mid/woofers". Equal distance between what? Thanks.

DMurphy · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Sep 2015, 06:57 pm »

The ST woofers are spaced at equal distances from the tweeter, and they will be at equal distance to you if you're listening on the tweeter axis. The two woofers will therefore image at the same point as the tweeter, and they will be in phase with each other. As you move above or below that point, the relative distance of the woofers as perceived at the listening position will change--that's simple geometry. If you're above the woofers, the top woofer will be closer to you than the bottom, and that changes the relative travel time, and hence the relative phase of the woofers. They will start to go out of phase with each other, and this will cause a cancellation in the output in the upper midrange, lower treble. The effect is not dramatic if you are standing up at a normal listening distance, but you will hear the output in that area start to increase and snap into focus as you sit back down with ears on the tweeter axis.

branon · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Sep 2015, 08:11 pm »

Thanks for that excellent clarification. Is this specific to the MTM design or does it apply also to the more common TMM design? Or is it less with the less with the latter because the woofers are close to each other?