GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers

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roscoe65

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GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« on: 27 Jul 2015, 12:30 am »
I have a pair of Omega Super 3 speakers (94.5 dB, 4.5" full range, very fast drivers).  They are in a 150 sq ft room on stands and need some assistance in the bass, probably from about 150hz down.

Omega offers two different subs that will apparently mate well with these speakers (naturally).  Of the two, the 12" is the better match but is about $1,800 for a single sub.  My question is if the GR 12" sealed servo subs are fast enough for these near-electrostat speed drivers, and would it comfortably overlap up to the 120-150hz range?  There is an obvious cost advantage, as I could have stereo subs for the same price as a single Omega, but I would also be interested if there is also a performance advantage.

Can anyone offer any insight?

HAL

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Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #1 on: 27 Jul 2015, 01:59 am »
I have the Dayton Audio PS220-8 8" wide bands mated to 3x8" GR-Research servo subs in a U baffle that sound very good after some DSP correction.

The open baffle subs have the faster sounding response you might be looking for in the U-Frame and H-Frame baffles.  Both the 3x8" and 2x12" servo subs will play up to 300Hz for crossover to the upper range speaker. 

Might be an alternative to consider.

roscoe65

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Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #2 on: 27 Jul 2015, 02:32 am »
HAL,

That was a consideration as well, but I am unsure that my room would be suited for open baffle sub(s).  We're talking about a room that is about 12 x 12.  The speakers are not that far from the room boundaries.

HAL

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Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #3 on: 27 Jul 2015, 02:53 am »
I am using the 2x12" H-Frame subs as speaker stands.  If they are a minimum of 3' out from the walls, would be a fine start.

They actually minimize the side wall interaction due to the figure 8 radiation pattern, vice the Omni pattern of the sealed sub.


Jonathon Janusz

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Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #4 on: 27 Jul 2015, 03:02 am »
I've run a pair of sealed 12" servos with planars before and the pairing blended together nicely.  In that room, the whole rig ran better with a quad set, but in a room the size you describe (about half of what my bigger room was), I think the pair would be just about perfect. 

One would work, but I'll admit that I'm a big fan of stereo subs, particularly if you plan on crossing that high up.  If I were picking nits, crossed really high, I would be more worried about cabling the servo subs to get the tonal flavor to taste - to match up best with the Omega drivers.  Don't worry at all about speed; there is nothing faster than these servo subs.  Yes, I said it.  Someone feel free to try to prove me wrong, short of maybe something like the old wall-sized Magnepans.

If you did go OB, I would set up a quad of them rather than just two drivers, as the efficiency mismatch with your speakers and the way the OB works might come up short with just two.  The sealed subs should match up fine being a little generous with the gain dials on the plate amps.  With your room size and moderate power into the Omegas, I would think you would still be good to go for headroom with a pair of sealed subs.

Once you get the subs in play, you might not even need to cross that high, depending on how the Omegas are tuned (haven't heard them myself).  Don't think you need to cross that high, but don't worry about the servos not making music if you choose to run them higher up - I've gone that high and higher running the quad set sealed with no worries.

celebrat

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #5 on: 27 Jul 2015, 09:34 am »
I am currently running Alnico Monitors with a pair of the GR Research OB dual 12"servo subs. I think these match up beautifully with the monitors. Actually the sound is fantastic.  Absolutely seamless and invisible. I crossover at 90hz with no issues at all. Above 90hz (120hz) I find there can be almost too much fill in some music but it is subtle and still sounds really good, but I would say not as "invisible". On some really dynamic music with strong bass content, the effect is really cool (if not quite real). I have the Omegas well into the room so there is very little bass gain from being closer to the back wall. I think that the speaker placement has everything to do with the proper crossover frequency and needs to be tailored to individual room and placement.

Before I got the OB subs, I did try the monitors with a single sealed GR research 12" servo sub. I can't say for sure if it was the sub itself (I think the room interactions with a sealed box have much more negative impact than OB)or the fact that it was single, but it sounded nowhere near as good as what I am doing now. The single sealed sub is now downstairs in my HT set up.

Hope this helps

Danny Richie

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #6 on: 27 Jul 2015, 11:26 pm »
Omega offers two different subs that will apparently mate well with these speakers (naturally).  Of the two, the 12" is the better match but is about $1,800 for a single sub.  My question is if the GR 12" sealed servo subs are fast enough for these near-electrostat speed drivers, and would it comfortably overlap up to the 120-150hz range?  There is an obvious cost advantage, as I could have stereo subs for the same price as a single Omega, but I would also be interested if there is also a performance advantage.

Can anyone offer any insight?

That's odd. Those aren't what I'd consider fast drivers.

The servo subs though are faster than any other woofer of its size on the market. Settling time is approximately 7 times faster than the same sized un-controlled driver. So if speed is what you are looking for then we have you covered.

We have sealed box and open baffle versions available in the 12" size.

And they can be crossed over as high as 300Hz with no issues.

These are also capable of playing flat to 20hz and will hit a -3db down in the teens. So they will play considerably lower than any other sub of its size in a sealed box application.

Captainhemo

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #7 on: 28 Jul 2015, 12:57 am »
HAL,

That was a consideration as well, but I am unsure that my room would be suited for open baffle sub(s).  We're talking about a room that is about 12 x 12.  The speakers are not that far from the room boundaries.

If you can get the subs 3' off the front wall as HAL  stated, you'll be fine wit the OB subs.  You can  place the  H frames pretty much right up against a side wall due to the nulls at the sides, and, they will  load your room far less than the  boxed subs.will.  Ed (ebag4) is running a pair of  dual 12"  H frames in his room and  I believe it is a very similar size, might want to talk to him but I know he has always been  very happy with the performance/sound he gets from his in that sized roomn

jay

ebag4

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #8 on: 28 Jul 2015, 01:22 am »
As Jay mentioned I am running a stereo pair of 12" 'H' frames in a small room.  My room is 10.5'x12.5', they sound fantastic in my room, I have them paired with Wedgies, in my system they play up to about 200Hz.  OB bass loads the room differently than box speakers.  My room isn't quite as square as yours but it is close, it is my understanding that square makes for a tough room for a box sub. 

My room is well treated and I have the speakers pulled out a little over 4'.  This isn't the exact speaker placement I have now but it is close with regard to the 'H' frame.




Best of luck!
Ed

roscoe65

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Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #9 on: 28 Jul 2015, 03:17 am »
Ed, thanks for the diagram!  We're looking at almost identical [tiny] rooms and I would have almost the same setup.

Are your stereo H frames running two 12" per side or a single one?

For reference, the remainder of my system is Omega Super 3's driven by a 421a SET (5 wpc).  Connection to subwoofers would likely be at speaker level.



ebag4

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #10 on: 28 Jul 2015, 03:34 am »
Yes, dual 12's per side.  I can't imagine you not loving them, they are highly adjustable so you should be able to tweak for the best bass possible in your space.

I'm getting ready to build another set of bass units to set my Wedgies on ( will be giving my V1s which house the H frames to my son) and I will be using the 12's again although I have the option for 3 8" drivers.  I know the 12's work here so why change?

BTW, the amp I am using for the Wedgies (and previously the V1 coax driver) is a Bottlehead Stereomour, a 2A3 amp, 3.5 wpc.

Best,
Ed
« Last Edit: 28 Jul 2015, 04:35 am by ebag4 »

roscoe65

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Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #11 on: 1 Aug 2015, 02:11 pm »
Ob subwoofers would appear to offer what I am looking for.  The type of music I like tends to demand more weight and impact and I think trying to so that with a single driver is unrealistic.

Guy13 has a pair of H-frame 12's couple to an Omega 7" driver in a similar setup to what I am leaning toward, only with a 4.5" driver of similar specification.  However, my room limitations and the desire to avoid overly large speakers at this point in my life give me pause in choosing 12" woofers.

Do you think running 2 x 8" per side with a 4.5" full range (either in monitor or OB) would be sufficient for my 1,200 cu ft room?  Will I be missing our significantly by not going with 2 x 12" or 3 x 8"?

ebag4

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #12 on: 1 Aug 2015, 03:08 pm »
I can't answer that from personal experience but here is a thread that addresses that question:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135565.0

Best,
Ed

Danny Richie

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #13 on: 1 Aug 2015, 06:40 pm »
Ob subwoofers would appear to offer what I am looking for.  The type of music I like tends to demand more weight and impact and I think trying to so that with a single driver is unrealistic.

Guy13 has a pair of H-frame 12's couple to an Omega 7" driver in a similar setup to what I am leaning toward, only with a 4.5" driver of similar specification.  However, my room limitations and the desire to avoid overly large speakers at this point in my life give me pause in choosing 12" woofers.

Do you think running 2 x 8" per side with a 4.5" full range (either in monitor or OB) would be sufficient for my 1,200 cu ft room?  Will I be missing our significantly by not going with 2 x 12" or 3 x 8"?

That's a pretty large room. I'd at least go with 3 of the 8" servo subs per side in a room that big.

ebag4

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #14 on: 1 Aug 2015, 07:32 pm »
That's a pretty large room. I'd at least go with 3 of the 8" servo subs per side in a room that big.
I believe he was noting the cubic feet in the previous post Danny.  He mentioned earlier in the thread that his room is about 12' x 12'.

Danny Richie

Re: GR Research Subs for Omega Speakers
« Reply #15 on: 1 Aug 2015, 07:49 pm »
I believe he was noting the cubic feet in the previous post Danny.  He mentioned earlier in the thread that his room is about 12' x 12'.

Oh yeah, you're right.

In that case a pair of the 8" woofers per side will be fine.