[joegator81]

Like many of you I purchased many of my favorite beatles records when they were re-released in stereo not to long ago. Now that the mono versions have bee re released and the raving reviews have come pouring in its hard not to buy all over again. The only real thing stopping is that I don't have a mono cart. How much am I going to miss not having a mono setup? Or are these things so good that I should just get them and worry about it later?

Sorry if this question is ridiculous but my experience with mono is slim to none.

Thanks in advance.

Btw, my setup is: Clearaudio Concept w/ MC, Phenomena II, Parasound Classic Pre, NAD C270 power amp, Salk Songtowers, and Epik Legend Sub..... if that info helps in any way.

[neobop]

As Hendrix would say, hey Joe,
The next best thing to a mono cart is to combine channels.  You can do this with a mono switch which I guess you don't have.  You could strap the channels on your cart - physically connect the 2 plus and 2 minus pins.   That's a PIA especially if you don't have a removable headshell. 

Many people use 2 sets of Y adaptors.  Use a set with 2 females and connect both channels from your table into 1 channel of your phono stage.  Then come out that channel of your phono with another 2 female Y - plug the male into the phono and the females into your interconnects to the line stage.
neo

[kc8apf]

I know practically nothing about mono recordings. The box set arrived today. I've played a few albums on my Technics SL-1200 w/ Ortofon 2M Blue. Both channels produce equal, glorious, luscious sound. I've not idea if a mono cart would improve things but this is absolutely the best I've heard The Beatles.

[neobop]

Mono recordings only have lateral groove modulation.  It's better if the cart doesn't have output with vertical motion.  You'll get good results with a stereo cart with an excellent pressing, but it's often much better with a mono cart. 

After thinking about it, maybe strapping the channels isn't such a great idea.  People have been doing it for a long time, but it might mess with the cart/phono stage impedance relationship, effectively cutting the input impedance in half.  They say you shouldn't use one Y adaptor on your phono cables to make mono, then use another to change one channel into two going into your phono stage.  I don't see any difference between that and strapping. 

Instead, use only one channel on your phono pre and split it into two at the output.  If you have a receiver or integrated amp and you're using a built-in phono, you can only do this if you have separate record and listen/monitor selectors.  Put the source or record switch on phono.  Use a Y adaptor on the tape output with signal to turn it into 2-ch.  Then monitor/listen to any high level input you go into from there.  Without this kind of tape facility you can try listening to one channel only. 

There are mono carts under $100, and some for thousands.  They come in the same varieties as stereo carts, high, med, low output and with different compliances.  Traditional mono tips are .7 mil spherical, but modern mono pressings can benefit from advanced tip profiles. 
neo

[mr_bill]

You guys are kidding right?

I can't just play these new vinyl Beatles pressings and enjoy them with my turntable as is?
If I have to dink around with buying a mono cart or Y connectors and such I will be pi&%ed.

[woodsyi]

You guys are kidding right?

I can't just play these new vinyl Beatles pressings and enjoy them with my turntable as is?
If I have to dink around with buying a mono cart or Y connectors and such I will be pi&%ed.

No kidding,

Mono cart on mono record sounds better than stereo cart on mono record.     C'est la vie.

One channel on your stereo pick up is pure noise on mono records...   The fine point on your elliptical stereo pickup is dragging the bottom of the mono groove and that is pure noise.  Granted it should be smooth but you are still coming in contact with a surface and your cantilever is probably moving up an down some.  True mono carts are vertically stiff and thus add no noise. 

[neobop]

You guys are kidding right?

I can't just play these new vinyl Beatles pressings and enjoy them with my turntable as is?
If I have to dink around with buying a mono cart or Y connectors and such I will be pi&%ed.

You can play a modern pressing and a high quality one will sound good:

I know practically nothing about mono recordings. The box set arrived today. I've played a few albums on my Technics SL-1200 w/ Ortofon 2M Blue. Both channels produce equal, glorious, luscious sound. I've not idea if a mono cart would improve things but this is absolutely the best I've heard The Beatles.

It should sound even better with a mono set-up.  With "regular" pressings you'll hear greater improvement.  Yes, you can play them "as is". 
neo

[Devil Doc]

No kidding,

Mono cart on mono record sounds better than stereo cart on mono record.     C'est la vie.

One channel on your stereo pick up is pure noise on mono records...   The fine point on your elliptical stereo pickup is dragging the bottom of the mono groove and that is pure noise.  Granted it should be smooth but you are still coming in contact with a surface and your cantilever is probably moving up an down some.  True mono carts are vertically stiff and thus add no noise.

Now the way I understood it is, if you have a mono button on your pre-amp (Thank you Frank) you won't hear that noise. Can you verify this Neo?

Doc

[neobop]

Not exactly.  A mono button will blend the channels, but won't eliminate any non-lateral components from the signal of a stereo cartridge. 

A mono record groove is only modulated horizontally.  A stereo groove is cut at 45° on each side, so there is a vertical component.  Any non-lateral component from a stereo cart playing a mono record shouldn't be there and isn't there with a mono cart. 

This isn't localized in one channel only, but it can add noise or even phase anomalies.  It won't be prevalent on an excellent pressing, but should still be better with a mono cart.  Someone with a lot of mono records will tell you they virtually all sound better with a good mono cart.
neo

[joegator81]

Not exactly.  A mono button will blend the channels, but won't eliminate any non-lateral components from the signal of a stereo cartridge. 

A mono record groove is only modulated horizontally.  A stereo groove is cut at 45° on each side, so there is a vertical component.  Any non-lateral component from a stereo cart playing a mono record shouldn't be there and isn't there with a mono cart. 

This isn't localized in one channel only, but it can add noise or even phase anomalies.  It won't be prevalent on an excellent pressing, but should still be better with a mono cart.  Someone with a lot of mono records will tell you they virtually all sound better with a good mono cart.
neo

This is what I was hoping to hear. I was kicking myself for getting rid of my Technics 1700 mkII when these mono reissues were revealed, thought it would be a perfect candidate for an ortofon mono cart, but from what I can infer from your comments that setup may not necessarily be as good as the Clearaudio Concept w/ Concept MC??? I think what I will do is buy a mono copy that I already have on stereo, sgt peppers perhaps, and see how much of an improvement I can hear.

Thanks to all for your input

[neobop]

It seems that the situation is even better than I realized.  They no longer have mono cutters so all the new mono records are pressed in stereo with both channels the same.  That means you'll get virtually no benefit from a mono cartridge.  Engage your mono switch (or not) and enjoy.

If you have a mono cart you will benefit from it on older mono records.  Many mono carts like the DL-102 are designed to play either a mono or stereo pressing.  Some people prefer mono and use the cart for everything. 
neo

[HPDJ]

This is an interesting tidbit. Where did you learn this neobop? Any links you can provide?

I've been considering the new Mono Beatles box set (I don't own any of their albums) but this whole mono cartridge thing had my head spinning. At the end of the day I need to just do what joegator81 mentioned, and buy a stereo version of an album and a mono version and "see" what I think. Especially since I'm gonna be listening mostly on headphones and apparently mono can be good or terrible on headphones. Only one way I'll know for sure

[G Georgopoulos]

If you have a mono cart you will benefit from it on older mono records.  Many mono carts like the DL-102 are designed to play either a mono or stereo pressing.  Some people prefer mono and use the cart for everything. 
neo

basicly you mix the output of a stereo catridge to get mono...

Many mono carts like the DL-102 are designed to play either a mono or stereo pressing.  Some people prefer mono and use the cart for everything. 
neo

ridiculars...

[brooklyn]

It seems that the situation is even better than I realized.  They no longer have mono cutters so all the new mono records are pressed in stereo with both channels the same.  That means you'll get virtually no benefit from a mono cartridge.  Engage your mono switch (or not) and enjoy.

If that’s the case, why did Ortofon come out with the 2M Mono cartridge as a tribute to the Beatles Mono Albums?


Here are two links to the Analog Planet, Michael Fremer review and Neil Gader from The Absolute Sound.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/ortofons-2m-mono-special-edition-first-listen%E2%80%94world-exclusive

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ortofon-develops-tribute-mono-cartridge/

[neobop]

This is an interesting tidbit. Where did you learn this neobop? Any links you can provide?

I've been considering the new Mono Beatles box set (I don't own any of their albums) but this whole mono cartridge thing had my head spinning. At the end of the day I need to just do what joegator81 mentioned, and buy a stereo version of an album and a mono version and "see" what I think. Especially since I'm gonna be listening mostly on headphones and apparently mono can be good or terrible on headphones. Only one way I'll know for sure

Everyone who has this new Beatles box says the SQ is considerably better whether they have a stereo or mono cart.  I bought Revolver, Sgt Pepper when they first came out ('67/'68 methinks) and they were in stereo.  I would have guessed that the stereo affects, especially on Sgt Pepper, would make it more desirable, but it seems these were mixed down in the studio in mono and they lost something in transition to stereo.  Mono doesn't sound one dimensional as some might think.  You don't get those side to side stereo tricks the same way, but the presentation isn't flat/lifeless.

It makes sense that "they" no longer have mono cutter heads.  After the '90s, we're lucky they still have cutter heads at all.  Here's a thread about that:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=1092081

The 2M mono is a stereo cart with the channels strapped someway other than the conventional parallel connection.  It's said to cancel vertical output, but this is third hand info filtered down from Mikey, so who knows?   Maybe so.  Here is a thread about the Beatles box and Mikey chimes in near the end with an apples and oranges comparison.  If you're a Beatles fan, I think it's safe to say these records are an improvement any way you play them.
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=1091740

neo


 

[orthobiz]

http://www.ortofon.us/product_detail?pid=309&category_id=13

P

[thunderbrick]

FWIW, I've been buying a lot of early 60s mono stuff lately (Kingston Trio, Gene Pitney, Ventures, etc.) and they sound AMAZING on my rig!  I no longer turn up my nose at mono originals. 

[neobop]

http://www.ortofon.us/product_detail?pid=309&category_id=13

P

This brings up the same questions.  It states flat out that it's a cart with the 2 channels strapped with no additional information about that.  How is this different than strapping any MM cart - connecting the channels together? 

It seems like it's a slightly modified generator from the regular 2M, but is it?  If the 2 channels are connected together in parallel, the DC resistance should be half of a regular 2M.   2M mono DC = 700 ohms.  2M Blue DC = 1300 ohms.
http://ortofon.com/hifi/products/cartridges/2m-series/2m-blue

2M mono load capacitance = 300 - 600 pF  Termination 47K - stereo,  23.5K - mono.
Blue is  = 150 - 300pF 
Inductance is 300mH  Blue is 700 and Black is 630mH.  Output is 3.5mV, compared to 5.5mV. 

You might have to experiment with load a bit, but it seems to me you could get the same results by connecting the output pins together.  Plus to plus and minus to minus. 
neo

 

[joegator81]

It seems that the situation is even better than I realized.  They no longer have mono cutters so all the new mono records are pressed in stereo with both channels the same.  That means you'll get virtually no benefit from a mono cartridge.  Engage your mono switch (or not) and enjoy.

If you have a mono cart you will benefit from it on older mono records.  Many mono carts like the DL-102 are designed to play either a mono or stereo pressing.  Some people prefer mono and use the cart for everything. 
neo

This is good news as i'm still listening with my Clearaudio Concept MC cart.

I went ahead and purchased SGT Peppers and HELP! I don't have another version of HELP to compare it to but i did a quick comparison of the SGTP to the stereo reissue and a previous stereo version and the Mono reissue is definitely better. The low end really kicks and has great definition. I need to listen and compare more closely though to really pick out the differences.

[firedog]

This is good news as i'm still listening with my Clearaudio Concept MC cart.

I went ahead and purchased SGT Peppers and HELP! I don't have another version of HELP to compare it to but i did a quick comparison of the SGTP to the stereo reissue and a previous stereo version and the Mono reissue is definitely better. The low end really kicks and has great definition. I need to listen and compare more closely though to really pick out the differences.

Help is a  good example of some of the better monos compared to stereos. AFAIK, the "Ticket to Ride" and "Help" cuts on the stereo vs the mono aren't even the same recordings. The mono is different. John Lennon once said that "Ticket to Ride" was the first heavy metal song. He was only half serious, but I didn't understand what he meant till I heard the mono version (even on CD); it has real attack and "thwack" to it. When you listen to it you know what JL was talking about.

I will be in the minority here though, and say that on some songs on Revolver, Pepper and MMT, I like the stereo mix better. I think the "effects" come across better in stereo.