BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different

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setamp

BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« on: 15 Mar 2015, 05:52 pm »
I had been using a WD Passport portable 2.5" external HDD.  I backed up my computer's HDD using an OWC external WD Green 3TB HDD and decided to try it in my BDP-1.  I powered the OWC external with a linear power supply.  I was very surprised to hear how different this sounds vs the WD Passport.  The portable sounds much better - open, extended with great dynamic bass.  The OWC was rolled off in both extremes, lacked dynamics and was very warm and soft sounding.  I switched back and forth with the same results each time.

I am now trying to figure out why they would sound so different.

The WD Passport is powered by the USB 5v that it is receiving from the BDP-1 through a USB-3 cable.
  Perhaps it is the cleaner BDP-1 power supply?
  USB 3.0 cable

The OWC/WD Green is powered by a linear power supply.
  Perhaps the power supply is noisy?  (Keces)
  Perhaps the umbilical from the Keces to the OWC is picking up noise.
  USB 2.0 cable?  I switched a couple of cables and they definitely sounded different from each other.  A Belden was very warm while a generic was a little more extended.
 

I am going to experiment further but am quite surprised by the difference.

rpmartins

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #1 on: 15 Mar 2015, 09:52 pm »
Regarding USB cables, last week I got amazed with tellurium Q vs. an audioquest and an ordinary printer cable.

Grit

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #2 on: 16 Mar 2015, 07:19 pm »
At a guess, I'd say the power supply.

Tympani

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #3 on: 17 Mar 2015, 06:38 pm »
I have experimented with various usb bus and external supplies. I am using a 1 TB Samsung SSD initially mounted in an " external enclosure". The enclosure provided the option of USB Bus power, Wall wart external supply, and E-sata power from the BDP-2 using the USB only for signal.

http://www.amazon.com/MiniPro-eSATA-6Gbps-External-Enclosure/dp/B003XEZ33Y/ref=sr_1_34?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1426618414&sr=1-34&keywords=usb+3+ssd+enclosure

The results were intriguing, and clearly confirmed the importance of power supply quality to sound.

First, the external DC power supplies were consistently the worst. I had 2 different wall warts to try, with same specs. Both provided the most closed sound, with the least air and the most "edge" to the extreme highs. Same consistent results whether plugged in to conditioner, wall, same AC circuit or separate. I believe these are cheaply made power supplies, likely spitting out plenty of noise/hash.
 
Second, USB Bus power from the BDP. Better for sure. Interestingly, there were subtle differences between different usb cables, which was surprising for a non-streaming setup. Probably all about noise.

Third, power from e-sata cable, with signal thru USB. Punchier, much better bass. This was the best external setup, until...

Fourth, internalized SSD powered via sata. That's where I am today. Great all around sound, and no worries about extra power cables and usb cables hanging around and jiggling loose. Sonically and aesthetically the best setup for me.

So...I think Bryston's power is cleaner than external power, and separating power from signal is better than sharing both on a cable.

markie

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #4 on: 18 Mar 2015, 03:18 pm »
Very interesting and good to know, thanks for sharing your experimentation!

barrows

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #5 on: 18 Mar 2015, 04:30 pm »
Any difference in sonics caused by different storage HDs are caused by the noise profile of the various HDs.
I am kind of surprised though that the BDP would be vulnerable to this noise-perhaps there is room for improvement here from Bryston.  But, it is not only the noise getting back to the BDP which causes problems: the power supply for the HD is plugged into the wall in the case of your OWC, and therefore it is sharing its noise with the rest of your system (and linear does not solve this problem at all).

2.5" HDs are made for portable devices, and therefore they are also designed to use less power.  By using less power, they will almost always also produce less noise.  When selecting a HD for music storage in an audio system, always take a look at the power consumption specifications: lower power consumption is almost always going to mean less noise.

Personally, I have given up on using any AC power for my server (custom built project between Sonore and myself with internal HD storage), as too much noise was coming out of the power supply (I tried many SMPS and linear options) and into the rest of my gear via the AC mains.  Now I power my server entirely by a custom internal LiFePO4 battery supply, and no noise gets back to the mains to be shared by my other components.


Jon L

Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #6 on: 18 Mar 2015, 04:42 pm »

http://www.amazon.com/MiniPro-eSATA-6Gbps-External-Enclosure/dp/B003XEZ33Y/ref=sr_1_34?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1426618414&sr=1-34&keywords=usb+3+ssd+enclosure

The results were intriguing, and clearly confirmed the importance of power supply quality to sound.

First, the external DC power supplies were consistently the worst. I had 2 different wall warts to try, with same specs. Both provided the most closed sound, with the least air and the most "edge" to the extreme highs. Same consistent results whether plugged in to conditioner, wall, same AC circuit or separate. I believe these are cheaply made power supplies, likely spitting out plenty of noise/hash.
 
Second, USB Bus power from the BDP. Better for sure. Interestingly, there were subtle differences between different usb cables, which was surprising for a non-streaming setup. Probably all about noise.

Third, power from e-sata cable, with signal thru USB. Punchier, much better bass. This was the best external setup, until...

Fourth, internalized SSD powered via sata. That's where I am today. Great all around sound, and no worries about extra power cables and usb cables hanging around and jiggling loose. Sonically and aesthetically the best setup for me.


I have this same external enclosure. 

"power from e-sata cable, with signal thru USB"

I thought the e-SATA cable cannot power the enclosure, just passing data?

I also always wondered what happens if USB cable is plugged in but the external PS also plugged it.  It's not clear to me that the USB power is cut off automatically when external PS is plugged in in documentation.

I do have a decent linear power supply and 5V battery I need to make some power umbilicals for to experiment on the enclosure but have been lazy :oops:

Tympani

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #7 on: 18 Mar 2015, 06:41 pm »
"I thought the e-SATA cable cannot power the enclosure, just passing data?"

You are correct. I got a bit confused in re-iterating my experiments. The e-sata connection was for signal, and I used the provided Dual-USB to DC connector for power from a pair of rear usb ports on the Bryston.  (BTW, this external enclosure is wonderful as it allows so many options for power and signal.)

As I indicated. this setup yielded the best sound from an external drive, improved only by placing the SSD internally. I would think the power and signal paths would be essentially the same as the internal setup, except bypassing any external cable connections.

By the way, the e-sata connection with wall-wart power was generally as crummy as the USB signal with wall-wart. Bad Power = Bad Sound.

setamp

Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #8 on: 18 Mar 2015, 07:53 pm »
I had always thought the OWC/Oyen Digital enclosures with WD Green drives were a quiet option.  I need to experiment further.  I have a USB certified 8" cable on order to determine the effect of a shorter length.  I will also try powering my LPS from a different circuit.  Next step will be to upgrade the dc umbilical to the HDD.  I have been tempted to try an Abracadabra Optimus dual-headed USB cable.  Has anyone heard one?

Ned F. Kuehn

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #9 on: 19 Mar 2015, 05:48 pm »
I find this thread fascinating as I just stumbled upon a change that a USB cable can make. I use a powered Sans Digital TowerSTOR USB 3 hard drive enclosure (fanless) with a 4TB WD Green hard drive. I had been using the Wire World Starlight USB 2.0 cable (silver clad OFC) going to the BDP-2. I recently purchased a Pangea Pure Silver USB 2.0 cable for a desktop computer audio headphone setup. On a whim, I swapped out the Wire World for the Pangea and found a subtitle, but critical improvement in sound with the Pangea going to the BDP-2. There is more depth, high frequency extension and low frequency weight to everything. This I was not expecting. Both cables use similar gauge conductors (24-gauge), but the shielding on the Pangea is superior (triple shielding).The conductors in the Pangea cable are also twisted for noise reduction. Putting the Wire World back in slightly collapsed the sound stage with a slight loss of perceived top to bottom frequency extension. As power supplies undoubtably make a difference (my system all receives balanced power via an EquiTech wall mounted 240-120V unit), I suspect a highly shielded USB cable for external drive applications is likewise critical. I don't succumb myself to tweaks without some merit, but this finding was unexpected and most interesting. Please don't persecute me for this observation as the issue with wires in audio is quite the topic of heated discussions. Just wanted to report my finding as it relates to my system.

Jon L

Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #10 on: 21 Mar 2015, 04:04 am »
I find this thread fascinating as I just stumbled upon a change that a USB cable can make.

Depending on point of view, it's either fortunate or unfortunate that many 2.5" USB3 external drives have that unique USB 3.0 connector, which does not accomodate the usual "audiophile" USB 2.0 cables.   I have a Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB cable sitting idle right next to my enclosure which cannot use it  :oops:

Ned F. Kuehn

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Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #11 on: 22 Mar 2015, 01:35 pm »
Could try a USB 3.0 B female to mico B male converter adapter connector to use your Wireworld Platinum cable. http://www.amazon.com/SMAKN®-female-converter-adapter-connector/dp/B00KQEG3EM

setamp

Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #12 on: 28 Mar 2015, 08:36 pm »
By far the greatest improvement to my external HDD was to move my external power supply from an Oyaide R1 outlet to a SR outlet.  The difference was not subtle.  I tried several cheap USB cables and didn't hear much difference.  My next step is to build a new DC umbilical.  I have some mil-spec silver plated copper wire and am just waiting for the 5.5mm x 2.1mm barrel connectors to be delivered.

Jon L

Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #13 on: 28 Mar 2015, 11:36 pm »
By far the greatest improvement to my external HDD was to move my external power supply from an Oyaide R1 outlet to a SR outlet.  The difference was not subtle.  I tried several cheap USB cables and didn't hear much difference.  My next step is to build a new DC umbilical.  I have some mil-spec silver plated copper wire and am just waiting for the 5.5mm x 2.1mm barrel connectors to be delivered.

SR is Synergistic Research?

I don't recommend mil-spec silver plated copper wire for what's worth.  I've made many DC umbilicals with various wires including several different types of mil-spec silver plated copper wire, and they just don't sound as natural as good OCC copper or pure silver IME.  If you can find some OCC magnet wire, those sound very nice in simple twisted configuration.

setamp

Re: BDP-1 : External HDD's sound different
« Reply #14 on: 29 Mar 2015, 01:31 am »
Thanks Jon L

I'll look into other wires.

SR is Synergistic Research.  Not my favorite (I really like the Furu GTX-D (R)) but the only one available other then the R1 which doesn't seem to work with any of my gear.