[Grant Hill]

Hi guys!

I have some thoughts on the BDP-3 I would like to share with you.

There are some among you who believe BDP-3 will bring new features to the table. I don't think that's the case at all. File-format support as well as audio quality will surely be the same as on the BDP-2 because nothing in the hardware department will change. What will change is the motherboard which will be of a newer design. But it has nothing to do with the actual audio processing. Rather, it takes care of the management side of things so load times will be shorter.

Also, this 64bit architecture is interesting. It is interesting because if you might remember that first 64bit CPUs came out three years before Microsoft released a 64bit OS and even then there was very little software that supported the specification so ultimately, the CPUs were not put to good use. Some of the potential had gone to waste. In fact, it was even worse than that because by the time there was something that would use these CPUs to their full potential, the CPUs were three years obsolete.

In the context of BDP-3, I wouldn't rush out and upgrade my own BDP-1 or -2 based on the promise of more features. Roon Core functionality sounds nice but I'd rather wait and see whether that becomes a reality or not. By the time it does, there might be a BDP-4.

In any case, there are features I'd like to see added a lot more. For example:

1. BDP could easily serve as a recording device. You could connect an external A/D converter to one of it's USB ports and record in high-resolution. Now that Bryston has a turntable and a selection of phono stages is available, this would seem like a useful facility to anyone wishing to preserve their precious and rare LPs.

2. Parametric EQ would be very useful.

3. Digital crossover via USB would be essential to anyone wishing to build an active system with no unneccessary A/D-D/A conversion. For example, BDP-2 is far, far superior in terms of hardware to some standalone digital crossovers that do precisely that, albeit via S/PDIF. There are companies who could help Bryston with this, just like Aurality helped with the BDP-1.

4. And I still don't see any reason why the actual display cannot show elapsed time within a specific track like an ordinary CD player does. Must we always be reminded we're dealing with a computer?

Right, well, I hope this answered some questions and poses some other ones!

Cheers!
Antun

Hi!

I agree on the fact that a BDP2 user might be not so attract in buying the BDP3 - maybe a BDP1 user yes - but I do expect to improve the sound quality passing from the BDP 2 to he BDP3. As far as I've understand, the measurements performed by Bryston show better results.

In the end, I'd be surprised if the new motherboard would not imply a better sound... We will see

Cheers

[Gomiki]

ps. I heard today that I will be the first person in The Netherlands who is going to get the BDP-3, I can not wait anymore.

I am interested in the new BDP-3,  Could send me a private message to comment on where you purchased it, thanks for help me.. 

[R. Daneel]

Hi!

I agree on the fact that a BDP2 user might be not so attract in buying the BDP3 - maybe a BDP1 user yes - but I do expect to improve the sound quality passing from the BDP 2 to he BDP3. As far as I've understand, the measurements performed by Bryston show better results.

In the end, I'd be surprised if the new motherboard would not imply a better sound... We will see

Cheers

Hi!

There are 3 boards in the BDP players:
1. power regulation board
2. board that carries AES and BNC digital output as well as aduio processor
3. motherboard that carries the main CPU, chipset, RAM and USB/LAN controllers

The first two are built by Bryston, the third one is not. It is an off-the-shelf part that you can buy in any well-equipped online computer store and it is precisely this board that is different in the BDP-3. It has nothing to do with audio processing, it is a mere computer platform for Linux, so it cannot possibly yield any differences in audio quality.

I doubt Bryston would claim anything that would suggest otherwise.

In fact, this motherboard has a video graphics processor inside and this is potentially damaging to system integrity. Interesting that this now seems to be present and yet, there is no wi-fi controller onboard.

I would be most interested in getting a reply from Bryston about this!

Cheers!
Antun

[CanadianMaestro]

The BDP-1 has a modified ESI Juli@ soundcard that is reviewed here (scroll down the page):
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-absolute-sound-card-survey-tas-213/

Bryston had modded  Juli@ to provide "much better output stage (both the transformer and driving stage are removed) so it is NOT a stock unit". Bryston also installed "a dedicated balanced low-noise, low-distortion AES EBU and BNC output section to integrate properly (in terms of impedance matching) with the BDA-1 DAC."

Now, the BDP-2 may have one of two boards: The same as the BDP-1's card, or a more recently developed IAD that can also be retrofitted for owners of the orig BDP-2 (but NOT BDP-1).

From what I've read and been told by users, the proprietary IAD imparts some differences in sound from the Juli@ card. See the following links:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-bdp-2-digital-player/
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-bdp-1-digital-audio-player-bdp-2-iad-upgrade#za3MXp1Qv8Zgkv4Y.97

Quoting the TAS article:
.... "to compare the BDP-2’s new Integrated Audio Device against the BDP-1’s customized ESI Juli@ PCI audio interface. Bryston’s BDA-2 DAC proved an ideal platform for this comparison, as its two BNC-coaxial SPDIF inputs facilitated simultaneous connection of both digital players. As I became familiar with the BDP-2, I began to hear residual colorations and distortions from the BDP-1 that previously had escaped notice, absent an even more neutral reference. (This inviolate truism of audio evaluation persists regardless of listening experience!) Compared with the BDP-2, the BDP-1 imposes a sweet sparkle in the high treble, with a glint of excess energy just below, accompanied by marginally over-ripe, rounded weight in the bottom end. It imbues music with a slightly loose “wet” vibe, and an engaging presence that remains enticing in its own way.

"In contrast, the BDP-2’s new Integrated Audio Device exhibits a more strictly linear tonal balance, with more refined upper octaves and a bass range characterized by improved pitch definition, timbral differentiation, and expressive nuance. The BDP-2 opens up the volumetric space of well-recorded acoustic music, without the slight center-weighted emphasis of the BDP-1. During complex, dynamic passages, the BDP-2 does a better job of keeping everything solidly grounded in its proper place. With tighter focus and even less time-domain smearing than its predecessor, the BDP-2 renders every instrument and voice with more distinctive character and a richer tonal palette, since harmonic relationships are preserved with greater fidelity and presented with better-defined note shape, from initial transient through resonant bloom to natural decay".

For me, that's enough to motivate me to get a BDP-2 with IAD installed. BDP-1 stays put in my home, regardless. It has a sound I have grown very accustomed to and enjoy very much.

cheers

[Marius]

The BDP-1 has a modified ESI Juli@ soundcard that is reviewed here (scroll down the page):
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-absolute-sound-card-survey-tas-213/

Bryston had modded  Juli@ to provide "much better output stage (both the transformer and driving stage are removed) so it is NOT a stock unit". Bryston also installed "a dedicated balanced low-noise, low-distortion AES EBU and BNC output section to integrate properly (in terms of impedance matching) with the BDA-1 DAC."

Now, the BDP-2 may have one of two boards: The same as the BDP-1's card, or a more recently developed IAD that can also be retrofitted for owners of the orig BDP-2 (but NOT BDP-1).

From what I've read and been told by users, the proprietary IAD imparts some differences in sound from the Juli@ card. See the following links:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-bdp-2-digital-player/
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-bdp-1-digital-audio-player-bdp-2-iad-upgrade#za3MXp1Qv8Zgkv4Y.97

Quoting the TAS article:
.... "to compare the BDP-2’s new Integrated Audio Device against the BDP-1’s customized ESI Juli@ PCI audio interface. Bryston’s BDA-2 DAC proved an ideal platform for this comparison, as its two BNC-coaxial SPDIF inputs facilitated simultaneous connection of both digital players. As I became familiar with the BDP-2, I began to hear residual colorations and distortions from the BDP-1 that previously had escaped notice, absent an even more neutral reference. (This inviolate truism of audio evaluation persists regardless of listening experience!) Compared with the BDP-2, the BDP-1 imposes a sweet sparkle in the high treble, with a glint of excess energy just below, accompanied by marginally over-ripe, rounded weight in the bottom end. It imbues music with a slightly loose “wet” vibe, and an engaging presence that remains enticing in its own way.

"In contrast, the BDP-2’s new Integrated Audio Device exhibits a more strictly linear tonal balance, with more refined upper octaves and a bass range characterized by improved pitch definition, timbral differentiation, and expressive nuance. The BDP-2 opens up the volumetric space of well-recorded acoustic music, without the slight center-weighted emphasis of the BDP-1. During complex, dynamic passages, the BDP-2 does a better job of keeping everything solidly grounded in its proper place. With tighter focus and even less time-domain smearing than its predecessor, the BDP-2 renders every instrument and voice with more distinctive character and a richer tonal palette, since harmonic relationships are preserved with greater fidelity and presented with better-defined note shape, from initial transient through resonant bloom to natural decay".

For me, that's enough to motivate me to get a BDP-2 with IAD installed. BDP-1 stays put in my home, regardless. It has a sound I have grown very accustomed to and enjoy very much.

cheers

You won't be disappointed by the BDP2 for accustomed to sound. I had them side by side, and liked them alike. (as in couldn't hear a real difference...)


I'm with Antun here, and wait for the BDP-4 until it's clear what the BDP-3 offers over the BDP-2. other than some file processing power, Bryston hasn't made clear what the audio improvements are over the BDP2 yet. and 64b NN is still a year of. (dixit Chris).


Cheers,Marius

[CanadianMaestro]

Hi Marius/Antun,

Yes, I agree. The BDP-2's extra speed/RAM esp with larger libraries/multiple drives, is worthy of consideration for BDP-1 owners like me. With its IAD, that may be a bonus -- if indeed the SQ is different from BDP-1. I'm a bit skeptical of that, but it would be a bonus. Thru BDA-1.

A bigger screen would be a nice mod for the next BDP. 

Variations On a Theme By Bryston.  A good candidate piece for would-be composers!

cheers

[unincognito]

In fact, this motherboard has a video graphics processor inside and this is potentially damaging to system integrity. Interesting that this now seems to be present and yet, there is no wi-fi controller onboard.

Every BDP that has ever shipped has had graphics capability, the difference is the BDP1&2 have both simply had the VGA connections removed.

[R. Daneel]

Hi!

I had a BDP-1 with the Juli@ board and now have a BDP-2 with the BUC board. Like Marius, I had them side by side for a few weeks and no matter how much I tried, I could not identify any differences that weren't subtle. This was on the best of days. At that time, I also had a Naim ND5 XS streamer/DAC so I compared all three. I also employed a modified Pioneer DVD player as a disc transport and while it offered a somewhat clearer top end than the Naim, it was not as clear in the bottom end as the Bryston was. But comparing the two Bryston machines proved futile and tiring. I listened for a week with recordings of our own orchestra and while I am intimately familiar with each and every nuance in these, I simply could not hear something that was "repeatable" by any measure. I would think I heard something but going back a few seconds quickly made me realise my concentration had dropped, thus creating the difference. It was actually a solid argument for me just how much salt one needs to take while reading reviews. It's more than a grain.

In the end, the only real reason I upgraded was my network which seemed to do something to the BDP-1 and made it skip. Quite irritating. Especially since BDP-2 cost a fair bit more.

I still do miss the elapsed time display!

Cheers!
Antun

[CanadianMaestro]

Hi!

I had a BDP-1 with the Juli@ board and now have a BDP-2 with the BUC board. Like Marius, I had them side by side for a few weeks and no matter how much I tried, I could not identify any differences that weren't subtle. This was on the best of days. It was actually a solid argument for me just how much salt one needs to take while reading reviews. It's more than a grain.

In the end, the only real reason I upgraded was my network which seemed to do something to the BDP-1 and made it skip. Quite irritating. Especially since BDP-2 cost a fair bit more.

I still do miss the elapsed time display!

Cheers!
Antun

Hi Antun,

Good to know of this. I'm not expecting diff SQ between BDP-1/2, consistent with some past users and reviews.

The extra speed and ability to handle larger libraries may be worth it for me, especially at the much reduced price that I was offered for a mint BDP-2 with IAD installed (PM me if you're curious). And with the proprietary IAD card, future mods/replacements should be possible thru Bryston.

What elapsed time display? BDP does not have one.

Cheers
Pete

[R. Daneel]

Hi Antun,

Good to know of this. I'm not expecting diff SQ between BDP-1/2, consistent with some past users and reviews.

The extra speed and ability to handle larger libraries may be worth it for me, especially at the much reduced price that I was offered for a mint BDP-2 with IAD installed (PM me if you're curious). And with the proprietary IAD card, future mods/replacements should be possible thru Bryston.

What elapsed time display? BDP does not have one.

Cheers
Pete

Hi Pete!

You know, the sort of display that ordinary cd players have You press play and see the seconds and minutes go by instead of looking at an IP address.

Yes, you have approached this from a good angle. IAD is a bonus, not something you should base your entire purchase decision on.

PM sent.

Cheers!
Antun

[Krutsch]

Hi Pete!

You know, the sort of display that ordinary cd players have You press play and see the seconds and minutes go by instead of looking at an IP address.

Yes, you have approached this from a good angle. IAD is a bonus, not something you should base your entire purchase decision on.

PM sent.

Cheers!
Antun

Great discussion.

Personally speaking, I would love to have USB 3.0 and GigE ports, in the name of making everything happen faster, as well as additional system RAM for buffering of audio data during playback. I had to adjust the MPD buffering to reliably handle 192/24 tracks from my WD MyCloud NAS. And, if I don't setup a swap file on something, Manic Moose will often hang when rebuilding the Bryston DB (I suspect this is while scaling cover art for thumbnails).

I've spent a staggering amount of time futzing with my BDP-1 over the last year; much of my frustration would have been mitigated with a faster machine with more headroom, as well as all the bug-fixing that occurred.

As for the IAD discussion, I've been determined to make Roon sound as good on the BDP as does MPD playback.

I've had some success doing two things:

1. Switching from the AES output (Juli@) to USB output into an outboard USB-to-SPDIF converter (in my case, a Bel Canto REFLink I already had to use with my MacBook);

2. Using wired Ethernet from my Roon Core machine to my BDP, which was a pain to make happen, as well as using a fast/loaded Mac for the Roon Core.

These two changes made a subtle difference, but I feel I am at a similar playback quality as MPD straight out of the BDP-1.

The tweaking never stops... 

[artur9]

1. Switching from the AES output (Juli@) to USB output into an outboard USB-to-SPDIF converter (in my case, a Bel Canto REFLink I already had to use with my MacBook);

That's funny.  I got my BDP-1 so I could stop fussing over USB.  On my system AES is definitely better but the main benefit for me was getting rid of all the extra boxes (converters, cleaners, power supplies).  My power strip thanks me.

[Marius]

Great discussion.

Personally speaking, I would love to have USB 3.0 and GigE ports, in the name of making everything happen faster, as well as additional system RAM for buffering of audio data during playback.

Indeed. Check on the need for better specs for all of the above. Check on the need for a better interface. But, for now, i'll stick with the BDP1. It just sounds great, and delivers, when keeping in mind some of its restrictions. (mainly don't play while doing file operations)


Since Bryston stays a bit unclear on the improvements in musical replay the BDP3 will offer, i must conclude it will only be on the specs-side of things this new BDP3 shines. Of course usb 3 and gig ports, more ram, is great. But it won't make the BDP play music any better. NN is named, 64bit operating system, but what it would deliver, and when?


As a matter of fact, i don't think any machine will sound better than the BDP1. Bryston made it as optimal as possible, stripping all unnecessary things out of the Motherboard and eliminating all noise creating processes out of the standard computer, even stripping the operating system. No need for higher resolutions than the BDP1 can play, since that also is claimed to be deteriorating the level of noise in the files, 24/96 being the optimal format.

My fear in the current evolution, and sudden jump to the new motherboard (labeling it the BDP3) is that Bryston is leaving its design philosophy of the above, and returning to the jack of all trades computer (read the VGA adapter bit, read the Roon server bit, etc). How come all of a sudden this philosophy is not valid anymore? Is it the market demand?
Bryston has always resisted that, in favor of optimal designs, sometimes even contrary to customer wishes, check the cd-tray of the BCD1 And we all bought Bryston because of it.


I think ill opt for the wait and see, where as i would have bought in blind faith before. Ah well, maybe that comes with age ;-((


Cheers,
Marius

[CanadianMaestro]

Hi Marius,
I think it will be very hard to significantly improve on SQ with a dedicated digital player now -- the technology maxed out years ago, imo. Perhaps Bryston is trying to add "extras" to give more possible "value" as a multi-function player. Market forces might likely be the trigger, as you suggest.

What CD tray in BDA1?    Was that a typo?

[Marius]

Hi Marius,
I think it will be very hard to significantly improve on SQ with a dedicated digital player now -- the technology maxed out years ago, imo. Perhaps Bryston is trying to add "extras" to give more possible "value" as a multi-function player. Market forces might likely be the trigger, as you suggest.

What CD tray in BDA1?    Was that a typo?

Stand corrected, a typo indeed...


I would understand the desirability of a multi-function player. Nonetheless, the chosen and much defended architecture of separate machines for number crunching and playing respectively is still respected in the broader community, even the Roon team states as much, and builds their software on this foundation. And this is why. Upping the BDP to be able to do both, is contrary to that architecture.


If Bryston would do that now, to answer the market forces, or otherwise, wouldn't that erode the previously built trust in that architecture, and thus the brand itself? Coming from Bryston, one would have to take that very seriously. But can't have it both ways.


Cheers,
Marius


 

[CanadianMaestro]

^ Yes. But if Bryston could show (and users confirm) that their multi-functional player did not negatively impact SQ, that would be a different ballgame, for them. The separate architecture philosophy would still be intact, at least for their amps, phonstages, and DACs.

Let's wait and see how the BDP-3 pans out, and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Marius]

^ Yes. But if Bryston could show (and users confirm) that their multi-functional player did not negatively impact SQ, that would be a different ballgame, for them. The separate architecture philosophy would still be intact, at least for their amps, phonstages, and DACs.

Let's wait and see how the BDP-3 pans out, and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

is what i will do for sure, as stated above. Bryston might help by elaborating a bit on their new design. Reintroducing the server into the Auditorium might take some explaining though...

[Phil A]

It's just a fact of life that computer technology has limited life spans.  Motherboards come and go and new ones are manufactured.  It's not limited to that.  There was recently a thread on the BCD-1, where Bryston doesn't have any more drives for it and the manufacturer stopped making those a few years ago.  In my case, I'm using Windows music servers and am looking for a step up.  So whatever I end up with (and I'm looking at a few things and in no particular rush - dealing with lightning damage on stuff at the moment), I'd expect it to be better than what I have.

[CanadianMaestro]

It's just a fact of life that computer technology has limited life spans.   - dealing with lightning damage on stuff at the moment), I'd expect it to be better than what I have.

Ouch. A surge protector bar should protect against these, no?

[unincognito]

My fear in the current evolution, and sudden jump to the new motherboard (labeling it the BDP3) is that Bryston is leaving its design philosophy of the above, and returning to the jack of all trades computer (read the VGA adapter bit, read the Roon server bit, etc). How come all of a sudden this philosophy is not valid anymore? Is it the market demand?

The design physolosophy is still there, these additional features remain dormant until you turn them on, much like turning on the upnp renderer.  The BDP-3 like any other BDP will come preconfigured in what we consider to be optimal, but like any other BDP it can have additional features turned on or reconfigured to use different playback services.  The firmware becomes larger, but inwouodn't necessarily consider it any more bloated.

Cheers
Chris