AudioCircle
Industry Circles => ModWright Instruments (MWI) => Topic started by: modwright on 1 Jun 2008, 08:18 pm
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There has been so much debate and sharing on this subject, and I have been asked to create a 'sticky' thread that will remain at the top, so here it is! Thanks to all of you who have supported us with our business and continued your support by sharing your experiences and discoveries with our new ModWright Modified Transporter.
Sincerely,
Dan Wright.
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Dan, any chance you can cut-n-paste some of the posts of lists/comments in the other threads? If not, we'll start over here..no problem.
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Dan, do your tube rectifed power supplies (as in my modded 9000es) also support 274b (or a) rectifiers? Some people use these instead of the 5u4g, I've read...
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Dan, any chance you can cut-n-paste some of the posts of lists/comments in the other threads? If not, we'll start over here..no problem.
I'll try to add the ones I clipped... Have to avoid the 1000 character post limit :D
Mr P
I have a question regarding tubes. Is the 6DJ8/6922/7308 family of tubes interchangeable with the 6N1P in the Transporter? I ask because it is an acceptable change in my current pre-amp. I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my modified Transporter.
Thanks,
Mark
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Ted
No, it's not. The other candidates include 6H30's (my least fave), 6CG7/6FQ7, 6BQ7 (my fave so far; gonna try Frank's 6H30 cryo idea, though) and the 6BK7 varieties.
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Frank S
Ted- just remember the the 6H30s are the DR variety- not just any 6H30. After several weeks I stand by my initial post that the GZ32 and the 6H30DRs are a killer combo together. YMMV.
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Philistine
Tubes - I've now settled on the GZ32/6BQ7 combo, but still find the basic 6H30 at the bottom of the pile with regard to sonic performance, so again I'm interested in a few more data points on the cryoed super duper version before taking a listen.
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Rydenfan
So, over the last 5 days or so I switched out the stock tubes of the Transporter for a Cryo'd 5AS4 Rectifier and a cryo'd pair of 6BQ7's. I gave them a good 100 hours or so before truly analyzing them. I found them to have a little more refinement and detail over the stock tubes, but I would find my mind wandering while listening to music; something I had not experienced before. Somehow I was less engaged than before. Last night I but the stock tubes back in, and BAM, I was sucked right back in. I do miss a bit of the intricacy of the other set but I am much more involved in the music again. Anybody have any suggestions of what to try next?
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rpf
I have tried a lot of rectifiers in both the LS36.5 and the Modwright Sony 9100. The best ones I've found are the Mullard GZ32 and GZ37 (black bases, if you can find them).
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rydenfan
I did not really care for the 5AS4 as well. After a long conversation with another tube vendor today, I think I will be stepping up to a Mullard fat base 5AR4/GZ34 Rectifier and a nice matched pair of 6CG7/6FQ7 RCA cleartop for the signals
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Ted
BTW, David (rydenfan) and I are comparing notes and coming up with the same conclusions:
We love the GZ32 and/or 5AR4 over the 5U4G(B) as a rectifier, and with the GZ32 find the Sovtek 6N1P's to be slightly forward in the midrange, and somewhat fatiguing vs. 6BQ7's (or David's fave the RCA clear top 6CG7's). I have a couple pair of 6CG7's but had only tried the inexpensive Electro-Harmonix (good, not great). Dan sent me long ago a set of used ugly-looking Zenith 6CG7's which I'll listen to tonight...but am ordering a pair of RCA clear tops ($48/matched pair) to mimic David's setup. Will report back.
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Philistine
I've settled on the GZ32/6BQ7 combo as my favourite, with the 5AR4/6N1P second.
The 6BQ7's are cryoed, as I haven't tried a non-cryoed pair I cannot comment on the value of cryoing or not.
Both 6FQ7's & 6H30's don't work for me in my system.
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Rydenfan
As Ted indicates he and I have been discussing this as of late. I am currently using a 1950's Mullard fat base 5AR4 with the RCA Cleartop 6CQ7's. This is far and away my favorite combination. Once I established the 5AR4 as my favorite Recitifer for its clarity and dynamic headroom, I began comparing signal tubes. I first put in the 6BQ7's and they were not for me. I did a lot of A/B comparisons between the 6N1P's and the 6CQ7's. The 6N1P is a considerably louder tube so level matching help my evaluation. The 6N1P has a very forward midrange which as first can be very compelling; however, I found it to be somewhat fatiguing and harsh. The 6CG7's have excellent detail and clarity and all instruments seemed more in their proper place. I also gained a more holographic imaging. For me, this the most detailed and transparent setup with amazing clarity. Of ocurse YMMV
With all of that being said, I will be trying a few different things once some new tubes arrive. I will be taking the Mullard 5AR4 and putting into the 36.5 to replace the stock 5AR4. I will then place a Mullard GZ32 (very, very similar to the 5AR4/GZ34) into the TP. Also, I found an extremely rare pair of the original production (not the re-issues) 6H30 DR's. Ultimately these will replace the stock 6H30's in my 36.5, but I will first try them in the TP to see what I experience with them in comparison to the sound I have today.
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And more...
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Ted
So here's my latest combo, although the changes I made last night were late into the session, so I got little time to listen, and little time for the tube to break in. This is a new combo not tred before in my setup.
I had been using the nice (and cool looking) Philips GZ32 bottle-shaped rectiier tube with the past few signal tube changes. Thos included the Sovtek 6N1P's (forward and initially impressive, but fatiguing after awhile, with the slightest grunge in the midrange), the RCA 6BQ7's (nice, my previous fave for overall balance) and the beat-up old Zenith/Viking 6CG7's (Dan sent me these awhile ago from his used collection; I was hesitant cuz the Elctro-Harmonix I had were lackluster at best)). They have been my new fave, due to their detail, bass and overall smoothness.
Last night I decided to bring back my previous fave recitifier, the bottle-shaped Mullard (Sylvania, made in England) 5U4G (not GB) and mate it with the 6CG7's. In a word...wow. The depth of soundstage, and the air that I had felt had been missing lately was back in spades. I'll let this combo settle in before any more changes, including a matched set of RCA Clear Top 6CG&7s whisking their way to me as we speak.
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Rydenfan
Hmmm, very interesting. Accoring to Dan the Tung Sol 5U4's rock. I may have to look into trying one in a few weeks after I finish my current swapping. I will be really interested in what you think of botht he Rectifier and the 6CG7's
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Mikel51
Today, I got around to trying some tube rolling.
My first shift was to use an old Mullard GZ37 from my stash. I immediately noticed an increase in mellowness, a rounding off of the bass, and a reduction in the edge on the highs. After about an hour of listening, I substituted in an old bottle shaped Tung-Sol 5U4G. Wow. I noticed an improvement in richness, improved bottom end and top end, a much richer midrange, an increased holography in the soundstage and a punchier livelier sound. I did not put the Philco 5U4GB that Dan supplied back in to compare the two 5U4 variants. I will have to do that one of these days, but am quite content with the Tung-Sol.
I listened to the Tung Sol-5U4G/6N1P combo for a while and was really enjoying the combo. The only obvious flaw I could pick up was that when there were a lot of instruments playing, the sound could get congested and there was a lack of resolution. The tonal balance was very good, but there was a boominess in the bottom end on some selections.
Then I inserted a pair of 6H30-DR tubes from my stash that I have had since 2004. Wow. These really got me close to perfection. My first impression was that the 6H30 relaxed the sound, it was less "frantic." There was a dramatic increase in midrange richness, a more holographic soundstage, and the sound had a better tonal balance from top to bottom. It was noticeably less boomy on the bass than the 6N1P, but had plenty of bass for my system. There was also a real increase in resolution, especially noticeable in passages with lots of loud instruments. In summary, the sound was dramatically improved in all respects.
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Ted
Mike,
Great first Transporter impressions post!! The tube info is invaluable. I too am a 5U4G (not B) fan. It keeps getting put back even after listening to the nice GZ32. I ordered a boatload of different 6CG7's this week, inclduing black plates Raytheons, RCA Clear tops and some black plates RCA's and Emerson's (RCA's).
There seems to be a little confusion over the 6H30-DR's, and since both you and Frank S are gaga over them in this application (and since the plain old Sovtek 6H30's are average-at-best in this application) could you explain what variety or telltale signs yours exhibit (i.e are they the newer Russian remakes that David talks about, and therefore a PArts Connexion grab at $125/pair?).
Anybody hear about this one: in other applications some folks LOVE the Sylvania 1958 gray plate 6CG7's with green lettering. But have stated that the piece-de-resistance is a Tung Sol 6SN7 with an octal-to-9 pin adapter. Is this possible; to open up, with an adapter, a bunch of octal tubes to the Transporter tube rolling category?
Thanks again. This thread is great.
Ted
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rpf
Don't know if they even fit (another larger hole to cut Dan ) but has anyone tried a Mullard "High Wycombe" (early "50s) big bottle GZ37 in a Transporter? These are a substantial improvement over the regular GZ37s although costly and getting more so ($200 and up) as they get rarer (only Tube World and KR Audio have them as far as I know). I like it best in the Modwright Sony 9100 although I prefer the GZ32 in the Modwright 36.5 (I've tried a bunch, though not all, 5U4G/GB, 5V4, 5AR4 variants in both pieces).
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Rydenfan
I cheated a little last night and listened to the 6H30 DR's. I only listened for a few minutes as they had only been powered up for about 2 hours, but so far I like them. Very similar to the detail and clarity I have with the 6CG7's but a way more holographic and 3 dimensional sound, it was almost a little trippy (for lack of a better term). I will listen more tomorrow or Thursday."
I will say that the RCA Cleartops 6CG7's are a very, very good tube. at $48 for the pair they have been far and away may favorite thus far. What I heard last night mimicked all of the qualities of them but also added that extra dimension. I believe the 6H30 DR's are going to be a special tube, but I really want to wait till they have some more time on them to make any real decisions.
My guess right now is that the 6H30 DR's will go into my 36.5 and the 6CG7's will go into the TP, but it is still possible I may need another pair of the DR's so they can run in both the TP and 36.5
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Rydenfan
I know feel confident in saying the 6H30 DR's best my previous favorite RCA Cleartop 6CG7's. As detailed and clear as the 6CG7's sounded to me, placing them back into my system after having the 6H30 DR's things quickly sounded muddy and congested. Actually, a little surprising to me how drastic the change was. For instance, I feel I can actually hear the location of each drum in the drummer's kit, that is how good the sense of detail and realness is.
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Ted
I've been on a used and low-priced NOS tube buying spree lately. All around the 6CG7 signal tube for the TP. I've settled on the Mullard 5U4G as the rectifier so far (although the Philips GX32 keeps getting its turn at bat). I've bought, for the signal side:
RCA Clear tops
Raytheon black plates (Made in USA ones, rather rare but inexpensive)
RCA black plates for the late 50's and early 60's
Sylvania gray plates from 1957-58, with green lettering
Sylvania gray plates, from early 60's, with yellow lettering
Up until this latest push I've been most pleased with the RCA 6BQ7's and to a lesser extent the Sovtek 6N1P's. When I put the RCA Clear Tops in they sounded very bright, as NOS tubes sitting on a shelf for 40 yrs would sound. After a few days they settled into very fine sounding tubes, the bes...so far. But then, after reading about some folks liking the cheap USA-made Raytheon black plates I scored a pair for like $15, along with Emersons and the RCA black plates for similar pin money. The past two days have had the Raytheons warming up, and they are now the benchmark. The soundstage is deeper, the midranges sweeter, the highs a notch less tizzy than even before. If David/Frank's feedback on the DR's are that good, I at least know I've got a few back ups for almost no money. And some folks think the RCA black plates will do almost the same as the Raytheons, with the 1958 Sylvania green labels either a masterpiece (and find of the year) or ho-hum. Once Bob and gang leave this weekend the Sylvanias may go in the hotseats. --
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And some more...
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Rydenfan
OK guys, I need to pick my jaw up off the floor a little bit
The last few weeks I have been totally consumed with doing all of my tube rolling in the Transporter, all the while keeping the stock 5AR4 and the 6H30's in my 36.5. After feeling very comfortable with how things sound, last night I replaced those stock tubes in the 36.5 with the Mullard 5AR4 and the 6H30 DR's that I had been evaluating in the TP. I placed a Mullard GZ32 and the RAC Cleartop 6CG7's in the TP so that I would know the difference in sound, if I heard any, was coming from the 36.5. OMG!! The 36.5 definitely responded well to the tube upgrade. The sound immediatly become more robust, very full with a whole new sense of authority and attack, the detail and imaging improved, as well as a pretty significant upgrade in bass depth and control. While I sat on my couch with a giant sh*t eatting grin on my face, I kind of laughed to myself that I had been so focused on evaluating tubes in the TP that I had not given the same attention to the 36.5. On top of that, the GZ32 I placed into the TP is brand new so I am confident I will see even more improvement tonight.
I know this post is not super relivent to the TP but I think there are some others who may enjoy and benefit from this post. As good as the Mullard 5AR4 & 6H30 DR's sounded in the TP, my opinion is that anyone with a 36.5 really NEEDS to hear these tubes.
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Mikel51
I just inserted my new (actually old) Mazda 6CG7 tubes from Upscale Audio. These sound very beautiful in combination with the Mullard 5U4G. Initial impressions are that there is a more liquid midrange and a more ethereal quality than I remember the 6H30-DRs sounding last night. Also a bit livelier sound. Since these are brand new, and since I am about to depart for the weekend, I will let them play and break in for a few days and then I will come home and try to do an apples-apples comparison to the 6H30.
But the bottom line is that the Modwright Transporter is a fabulous digital source.
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Philistine
David, I'm still nervous about blowing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on the 6H30 DR's - some say the latest 6H30's are pretty close to them, depends on the usage/equipment. I originally blew away my new 6H30's as being to harsh and grainy, but let them run 3 days non-stop again. They sound smoother now and I like their 3 dimensional holographic soundstage. They clearly have a lower gain than other signal tubes I've tried and they are do sound bass light (or maybe they're less muddled/woolly). My 6N1P's sound inferior, in terms of a more 2 dimensional sound and less articulation of individual instruments. I'm still waiting for a volunteer to compare the 6H30 DR's against the latest (last few years not early 2000's) version.
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Ted
I've ordered DR's from Parts Connexion, and have a couple sets of the latest standard 6H30's from Dan, so I'll be able to compare too.
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Bigfish
I have read through these 29 pages of posts many times but must admit to still being confused as to your favorite tubes in the Transporter. As I would like to order some tubes would you please clarify for me what you have determined to be your favorite Driver and Rectifier Tubes? Reading through the posts it would seem favorite driver tubes are the 6CG7 RCA Cleartops or 6H30DRs. I am totally uncertain about the Rectifier but maybe a Mullard GZ32?
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Rydenfan
Ken, right now I am using a Mullard GZ32 and the RCA Cleartop 6CG7's. I am very, very happy with this combo. I keep popping in a Tung Sol 5U4GB, but I keep returning to the GZ32. I moved my 6H30 DR's to the 36.5 and love them there.
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Philistine
I've tried and like:
GZ32 (Mullard)
5U4G
With the 5U4G as the current favorite.
I used to like the 5AS4, but keep going back to the the others.
Next on my list is a 5AR4.
Signal tubes:
I have a pair of 6CG7 RCA Cleartops, but prefer my cryoed RCA 6FQ7's from tube world.
I'm on hold on the 6H30's until Ted compares the new ones against the DR's, I find the new ones to be very 3 dimensional but severely lacking in bass.
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Ted
My fave rectifiers are identical to Philistine:
Mullard (Sylvania) 5U4G (not B)
Philips GZ32
Mullard 5AR4 (distant third but nice midrange)
Signals:
First tier, in descending order, but all very nice, and order depends on mood :
Raytheon 6CG7 black plates
Sylvania 1958 6CG7 gray plates (green lettering)
RCA 6CG7 Clear tops
RCA 6CG7 black plates
RCA 6BQ7's
Zenith 6CG7's (I think these are RCA)
Second tier:
Sovtek 6N1P
Didn't like:
Sovtek 6H30's
Waiting on:
Reflektor 6H30-DR's (supposedly wayyy better, and Rydenfan LOVES them in the LS 36.5, so a no-brainer for me)
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Ted (in response to my query)
Frank,
The 6H30's as stock tubes (the Sovtek Ep or PI versions) were a poor to fair tube in the TP but a nice stock tube in the LS 36.5 preamp. Well......the Reflektor DR's I bought from Parts Connexion arrived last week and I let them settle in on the TP for about 48-72 hrs. Then I gave them a listen (with the Philips GZ32 rectifier). Holy Sh$t....what an incredible difference. Night and day, really, compared to the regular 6H30's, and easily (yes, easily) the best signal tubes I've yet to hear in the TP. The dynamics, 3d soundstage and the bass, my gosh the bass! I listened for two straight nights and couldn't believe how a pair of signal tubes could make such a difference. But I remembered that some folks like David (rydenfan) liked them even more as the 6H30 replacements in the LS 36.5. So the next night in the went, and another 24 hrs of settling. Well......drum roll pelase....they lose NOTHING in that position, and gain the flexibility of adding/rolling different tubes in the TP. I've settled on my Raytheon Black plate 6CG7's in the TP, with the DR's in the pre. It's a wonderful sound and one that I could live with forever. Of course, i'm gonna continue to tweak, but the DR's aren't moving. They stay in the pre! Forever.
Net/net, run out and buy them, either for the TP or the 36.5 (and yes, I'm tempted to buy another pair and do both, but something tells me it will be a case of less is more). They are like steroids, and I'm not sure a double dose is called for.
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And a little more fresh input...
I recently found an early set of Tung-Sol 6CG7's with shields -- not 6FQ7's -- and I'm really liking them a lot. They have a richer, fuller sound than the RCA clear-tops I tried (which I thought worked well with the GZ32 rectifier, but not as well with my fave Tung-Sol 5U4G). With all Tung-Sol, at them moment I've got the best sound I've had so far. Deeper bass, good detail without over-highlighting any instruments, maybe a touch less air, but a midrange to die for.
Ted, I took your advice and ordered a set of 6H30-DR's (beating the deadline for Parts Connexion's 15% sale). I'll let you know how they work in my system.
Best,
Frank
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Frank,
Thanks for doing the cut and paste.
More data points:
I found the new 6H30's to have a combination of positives and negatives, for me the negatives outweighed the positives. When I started to read the glowing reviews of the DR version I was very skeptical, it couldn't be night and and day between the DR's and the new version could it? Well I just had to get a pair to try - and, so far, they are exceptional :drool:. Huge 3D holographic soundstage, bags of detail, tight/deep/articulate bass and very smooth. So far I've just stuck with a GZ32. Only downside is future availability :cry:.
Just to confuse the issue I'm also playing with a HiFi Tuning fuse - more about this later.
Phil
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Nice job. Thanks.
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RE the 274a or 274b, I am really not familiar with this tube and don't know. Assuming that it is an equivalent to the 5U4G or 5U4GB, then it should be compatible. The key is the voltage drop across the rectifier and also the max operating voltage. The rectifier will see as much as 600VAC.
Thanks to all for contributing here and I hope that these individual threads help.
Take care,
Dan
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Frank,
Thanks for this. The cut-n-paste is priceless.
Phil,
By "new" 6H30's you mean stock (EP or PI designation)? I find it totally confusing and amazing that the DR tubes are 6H30's yet exhibit NONE of their stock counterparts sonics......they are state of the art, their stock counterparts are run of the mill.
Dan,
Thanks for the sticky. This should be a large thread. :thumb:
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Phil,
By "new" 6H30's you mean stock (EP or PI designation)? I find it totally confusing and amazing that the DR tubes are 6H30's yet exhibit NONE of their stock counterparts sonics......they are state of the art, their stock counterparts are run of the mill.
Exactly - stock means EP or PI, and your state of the art vs run of the mill analogy captures the difference.
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Dan, do your tube rectifed power supplies (as in my modded 9000es) also support 274b (or a) rectifiers? Some people use these instead of the 5u4g, I've read...
The 274B is a direct heating tube, and likes to see a first stage capacitor of around 10 microfarads, preferrably less. Otherwise you could see a short life-span from the tube itself. It is a wonderful sounding rectifier, and I'd love to run it in the Transporter as well. The tube is capable of handling 90 mA's.
Maybe Dan can check and see if this would be kosher or not?
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Damn, I guess I need to go away for a weekend more often. Dan has a new website and we have our sticky :thumb:
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I have found that life is much more efficient since I gave up sleep :o. Just kidding....
We are always rolling forward though!
Dan
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The saga continues. I've been playing music from singers I've seen in person this year. This has forced me to conclude that the presentation of my Modwright Transporter with the Tung-Sol 6CG7's is too romantic. These singers (Vienna Teng, Lyle Lovett, Joan Osborne, The Duhks) are a bit brasher sounding in real life. Also, what at first was a little shortage of air on top is now become stuffiness. The RCA Clear-tops don't suffer this problem, altho I did find them a trifle too bright. But on balance, I still prefer them to the Tung-Sols. Cello's sound magnificent with the Tung-Sols, but I do think that's the romance talking too. And piano definitely sounds reticent. (sigh) :cry:
I'm still waiting for my 6H30-DR's. I have great hopes for them!
Time for some Beethoven... bye!
Frank
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The saga continues. I've been playing music from singers I've seen in person this year. This has forced me to conclude that the presentation of my Modwright Transporter with the Tung-Sol 6CG7's is too romantic. These singers (Vienna Teng, Lyle Lovett, Joan Osborne, The Duhks) are a bit brasher sounding in real life. Also, what at first was a little shortage of air on top is now become stuffiness. The RCA Clear-tops don't suffer this problem, altho I did find them a trifle too bright. But on balance, I still prefer them to the Tung-Sols. Cello's sound magnificent with the Tung-Sols, but I do think that's the romance talking too. And piano definitely sounds reticent. (sigh) :cry:
I'm still waiting for my 6H30-DR's. I have great hopes for them!
Time for some Beethoven... bye!
Frank
What rectifier is this conclusion with? If it's the Tung Sol 5U4GB's then I would either do RCA 6BQ7's or find some early 6CG7 black plates (Raytheon, etc.). However, the DR's will surely give you a new sound...I think they're great with the T-S GB's !! Due to your earlier comments I have a G version on its way from Ebay.
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Comet...
You will absolutely love the DR's, especially if you're wanting to gain a bit of neutrality. I am running the DR Supertube in the TP with a 1958 Mullard GZ34 black base rectifier right now...which is a bit on the fat side of things, but have a 1955 metal base Philips miniwatt GZ34 coming. That should tell the tale.
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Comet...
You will absolutely love the DR's, especially if you're wanting to gain a bit of neutrality. I am running the DR Supertube in the TP with a 1958 Mullard GZ34 black base rectifier right now...which is a bit on the fat side of things, but have a 1955 metal base Philips miniwatt GZ34 coming. That should tell the tale.
Thanks for these thoughts! I played around with a few GZ34's, but I found all of them slow things down too much. I did not try the Philips you have, but I did try an early Mullard (1950's, brown base), a later Mullard (late 60's, I think, black base), and a Siemens. But interaction effects are important, as I've discovered, so maybe I'll end up revisiting the GZ34's when my DR's arrive. I appreciate the suggestion!
Ted, yes, I'm using the Tung-Sol 6CG7's with the Tung-Sol 5U4GB rectifier. As I said earlier, I DID like the RCA clear-tops with the 5U4 G Tung-Sol more than I do with the 5U4GB, where I find them somewhat shrill. Of course, my speakers are electrostats, so they are somewhat brightish to begin with, or at least extremely revealing on the highs. On your system, YMMV. I have a set of RCA black plates, but I've determined that they are marginal in quality, so I can't say much about them yet until I get a new set. I was totally unimpressed with Raytheon/Japan 6CG7's, and I only have one black plate Raytheon, so I need another to try them. I kinda have a love/hate thing with the Tung-Sol 6CG7's, they're too pretty, but it's sorta nice too.
Looking at some tube data sheets (Duncan amp tube locator links), the 6N1P-EB has a lot more gain than the 6CG7 or the 6H30, and the internal capacitance numbers are similar, but different enough for audible impact. I wonder if any of the original manufacturer's tube data sheets would provide enough information for us to track down the tube characteristics that are audibly positive/negative? Need to brush up on my tube lore (learned from Bruce Rosenblit's excellent book on designing tube amplifiers).
For the 6N1P-EB http://www.tubes.ru/techinfo/HiFiAudio/6n1p.html
For the 6CG7 http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6CG7
For the 6H30 http://www.triodeel.com/6h30.html
I'll post as I gain more experience. Off to enjoy the music!
Frank
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6H30 DR
I've tried the following rectifier tubes:
5U4GB (Tung Sol)
5U4G (Emerson)
5AS4 (Super Radiotron)
GZ32 (Philips/Mullard)
So far I prefer the GZ32 in my system, but would love to try a 5AR4.
RCA Cleartop 6CG7, sound OK but I have a pair of Cryoed RCA 6BQ7A that out perform them - the 5U4G is the best rectifier match in my system with this family.
6N1P's - best sounding 'modern' low cost tubes, but blown away by the 6H30DR's. Is there a 'DR' equivalent of the 6N1P's, or maybe get a pair cryoed?
I have stopped my signal tube search with the 6H30's - only quest now is GZ32 vs 5AR4, and potential to cryo.
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6H30 DR
I've tried the following rectifier tubes:
5U4GB (Tung Sol)
5U4G (Emerson)
5AS4 (Super Radiotron)
GZ32 (Philips/Mullard)
So far I prefer the GZ32 in my system, but would love to try a 5AR4.
RCA Cleartop 6CG7, sound OK but I have a pair of Cryoed RCA 6BQ7A that out perform them - the 5U4G is the best rectifier match in my system with this family.
6N1P's - best sounding 'modern' low cost tubes, but blown away by the 6H30DR's. Is there a 'DR' equivalent of the 6N1P's, or maybe get a pair cryoed?
I have stopped my signal tube search with the 6H30's - only quest now is GZ32 vs 5AR4, and potential to cryo.
Phil,
Any feedback yet on the value of the HiFi Tuning fuse in the TP?
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Phil,
Any feedback yet on the value of the HiFi Tuning fuse in the TP?
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The plan was to live with it for a few weeks, and then take it out to see if I noticed a difference.
But you've now piqed my curiousity Ted - I'll replace it in the next day or so and get back with an interim update.
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The plan was to live with it for a few weeks, and then take it out to see if I noticed a difference.
But you've now piqed my curiousity Ted - I'll replace it in the next day or so and get back with an interim update.
Hey Phil,
What is the size and value of the TP fuse?
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The plan was to live with it for a few weeks, and then take it out to see if I noticed a difference.
But you've now piqed my curiousity Ted - I'll replace it in the next day or so and get back with an interim update.
Hey Phil,
What is the size and value of the TP fuse?
5 x 20mm
3 amp
Slow Blo
-
I may go to a 3.25A slow blow as I have a Phillips Dario Miniwatt GZ32 that has blown out the 3A fuse. I checked with Dan and he confirmed 3.25 would be totally fine.
-
I may go to a 3.25A slow blow as I have a Phillips Dario Miniwatt GZ32 that has blown out the 3A fuse. I checked with Dan and he confirmed 3.25 would be totally fine.
I had the same problem with a crappy rectifier tube - and could only find a standard 3.25, which works fine.
HiFi Tuning Fuse
I've just been A/B'ing the standard fuse with the HiFi Tuning Fuse, and feel a little sheepish in saying that their is a noticeable difference:
First of all I did not find any directionalty in the HiFi fuse - no, it sounds the same plugged in either direction.
The HiFi Tuning fuse has a more air and separation around the instruments, which leads to more clarity. This doesn't mean the standard is warmer, but sounds the standard more opaque with less detail. How much more detail? Well equivalent to an IC or PC change - is it worth it? Definetly, for the price of a pizza its a steal.
-
A quick question regarding the 6h30-DR. I acquired a pair and tried them out tonight. They sound great, but volume is down maybe 6 db versus the stock tubes. Is that normal?
-
A quick question regarding the 6h30-DR. I acquired a pair and tried them out tonight. They sound great, but volume is down maybe 6 db versus the stock tubes. Is that normal?
Yep, that's normal - I'm sure the techies can explain why. Nothing wrong with the tubes.
-
Where did you guys get your Tung-Sol 5U4G?
George
-
Where did you guys get your Tung-Sol 5U4G?
George
They're coming up on ebay - not sure that the regular vendors have any?
-
Where did you guys get your Tung-Sol 5U4G?
George
George:
I saw one on ebay tonight for $150.00 buy now but the tube is located in France.
Ken
-
Where did you guys get your Tung-Sol 5U4G?
George
Got mine on Ebay for $24 shipped. It's untested but looks good. I took a flyer. Should be here in a couple days.
-
Just an update. I received the 6H30-DR tubes from Parts Connexion and they've now been playing in the Modwright Truth Transporter for the last 40 hours or so. Initial impressions are extremely positive. The bass was pretty reticent at first, but today it's ramping up. Tonality is RIGHT ON, and the harmonic structure of instruments is so realistic that the piano is here in the room with me.
Best signal tube I've tried so far. Thanks Frank, Ted, Rydenfan for convincing me to open my wallet for rape & pillage. It was worth it...
I'll keep you posted on my rectifier pairings listening observations. But I think I've found my ideal triode in this application. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Frank
-
I am glad to hear you are enjoying them. They have an excellent holographic sound and excellent bass depth. The combination of those signal tubes in the 36.5 and other tubes in the TP is a beautiful sound :drool:
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HiFi Tuning Fuse
I've just been A/B'ing the standard fuse with the HiFi Tuning Fuse, and feel a little sheepish in saying that their is a noticeable difference:
First of all I did not find any directionalty in the HiFi fuse - no, it sounds the same plugged in either direction.
The HiFi Tuning fuse has a more air and separation around the instruments, which leads to more clarity. This doesn't mean the standard is warmer, but sounds the standard more opaque with less detail. How much more detail? Well equivalent to an IC or PC change - is it worth it? Definetly, for the price of a pizza its a steal.
[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback Phil. Is this what you got?
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=3496
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David,
That's what I ordered on Friday, the 5 x 20mm 3.15A slo-blo from The Cable Company (I have a credit with them from the loaning library).
-
HiFi Tuning Fuse
I've just been A/B'ing the standard fuse with the HiFi Tuning Fuse, and feel a little sheepish in saying that their is a noticeable difference:
First of all I did not find any directionalty in the HiFi fuse - no, it sounds the same plugged in either direction.
The HiFi Tuning fuse has a more air and separation around the instruments, which leads to more clarity. This doesn't mean the standard is warmer, but sounds the standard more opaque with less detail. How much more detail? Well equivalent to an IC or PC change - is it worth it? Definetly, for the price of a pizza its a steal.
Thanks for the feedback Phil. Is this what you got?
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=3496
[/quote]
Yes, thats the one I bought - picked it up from Parts Connexion, but its the same fuse.
I bought the 3A, but the 3.15A has been MW cleared for use.
I have a different preamp to you and Ted, a Musical Fidelity (with 6119 tubes), so it will be interesting to find if you hear a difference.
-
Anyone tried one of these before?
http://www.partsconnexion.com/Furutech_Fuses.pdf
Phil, i know you replaced the 3A fuse on the tube board. Did you also replace the 1A fuse that is located in the back by the tube toggle switch?
-
Anyone tried one of these before?
http://www.partsconnexion.com/Furutech_Fuses.pdf
Phil, i know you replaced the 3A fuse on the tube board. Did you also replace the 1A fuse that is located in the back by the tube toggle switch?
David,
I didn't replace this - figured that it just protects the SlimDevices board that deals with all the wireless stuff, whearas the 3A fuse is on the mod board that Dan adds so this seemed the most obvious to replace. Maybe I'm wrong and its worth replacing?
Phil
-
Dan's email response to my same question:
"Sure, the 1A (fast blo 'FB') fuse sees AC that powers the digital circuitry"
-
Dan's email response to my same question:
"Sure, the 1A (fast blo 'FB') fuse sees AC that powers the digital circuitry"
Guys:
Is the 1A FB fuse also 5X20mm?
Thanks,
Ken
-
Dan's email response to my same question:
"Sure, the 1A (fast blo 'FB') fuse sees AC that powers the digital circuitry"
Guys:
Is the 1A FB fuse also 5X20mm?
Thanks,
Ken
Yes it is.
-
Well, thanks to Phil :evil: I got ordered 3 hifi tuning fuses :duh: I ordered the 1A fast blow for the digital section of the TP, and 2 3.15A slow blow fuses (one for the TP and one for my 36.5). I will report back...
-
So, has anyone tried a GZ37 yet? This seems like a hard to find tube.
-
Well, thanks to Phil :evil: I got ordered 3 hifi tuning fuses :duh: I ordered the 1A fast blow for the digital section of the TP, and 2 3.15A slow blow fuses (one for the TP and one for my 36.5). I will report back...
Well I guess we're even David, you got me off the the 6H30DR's :o
Just picked up a 5AR5/GXZ34 to try with the 6H30's - this will be the last :duh: So far sounds good, looks like my rectifier tube will be this or a GZ32.
The unused tubes will be my kids inheritance - when they realize that I'm blowing their future payout on tubes etc maybe they'll want to take out a conservatorship order :?
-
Do GZ33's work with this?
-
David:
Thank you! I plan to order a 1 amp fast blow and 3.15 amp slo blow HIFI Tuning fuses tomorrow!
Ken
-
It's really Phil's fault about all this fuse business.. :) ..but David and I are right behind him. I use HiFi Tuning fuses in my ac mains portion of my McCormack DNA-500 (it ultimately will take 13 of them!!) and love the added air and overall ease (after about 200 hrs). I've got the TP fuses (3.15A and 1A) arriving trmw or Wed, and will likely follow that up with three for my Dual mono 36.5. a soon as we get some breka-in we'll report back.
This is getting too weird. Outlet covers next? :D
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It's really Phil's fault about all this fuse business.. :) ..but David and I are right behind him. I use HiFi Tuning fuses in my ac mains portion of my McCormack DNA-500 (it ultimately will take 13 of them!!) and love the added air and overall ease (after about 200 hrs). I've got the TP fuses (3.15A and 1A) arriving trmw or Wed, and will likely follow that up with three for my Dual mono 36.5. a soon as we get some breka-in we'll report back.
This is getting too weird. Outlet covers next? :D
We are really trying to squeeze every ounce of performance out, aren't we? :lol: At least when you are dealing with this sort of minutia you are pretty pleased with the overall sonic signature of your system :wine:
Ted, maybe we should switch amps before we have to put $400 in fuses in them... :wink:
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We are really trying to squeeze every ounce of performance out, aren't we? :lol: At least when you are dealing with this sort of minutia you are pretty pleased with the overall sonic signature of your system :wine:
Ted, maybe we should switch amps before we have to put $400 in fuses in them... :wink:
I think you guys should be negoiating a volume discount! :lol:
-
If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
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If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
-
If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
Ken, is this the SKU of the tubes you ordered? CRYO- 67168
-
If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
Thanks Ken - I can't take the kudos for this, it was the CEO (Ted) that found these. I'll just take the kudos for the fuses (if they work), and if they don't work the pizzas are on me.
-
If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
Ken, is this the SKU of the tubes you ordered? CRYO- 67168
The SKU is NOS-68615
-
If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
Ken, is this the SKU of the tubes you ordered? CRYO- 67168
No. They are not the cry'd regulars, they are the Reflektor DR matched pairs. SKU is NOS-68615 matched, found on the second tab on the bottom.
Edit: Phil beat me to it. I want to leave this post as is, though, cuz many think the more expensive Pearl cryo'd versions are the ones....they aren't. Don't waste that money on cryoing the lesser PI/EB versions IMO.
-
So, has anyone tried a GZ37 yet? This seems like a hard to find tube.
I am only re-posting as I am very interested in the GZ37. Does anyone have any experience with this tube in the TP???
-
David,
There is a 'Buy it Now' offering for a Mullard GZ37 on E-Bay UK. I have bought tubes from this seller and got what he advertised. It looks like he had 14 and 1 may be left. At 37 pounds it appears to be selling less than the going rate in the US. These were made in the UK so why not buy from the country of origin.
No affiliation with the seller and I have not tried the GZ37 variant in a TP or 36.5.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=320216201525&Category=39997&_trksid=p3907.m29
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If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
Thanks Ken - I can't take the kudos for this, it was the CEO (Ted) that found these. I'll just take the kudos for the fuses (if they work), and if they don't work the pizzas are on me.
Mr CEO Ted:
Let me correctly thank you for the lead I obtained through Phil to contact Parts Connexion for the DRs. I found them to be very nice on the phone, immediately sent a confirming e-mail for me to verify that the order was correct and have already shipped. I am looking forward to receiving the tubes and the fuses and mostly to having more time to listen to music.
Thanks Again,
Ken
-
If you guys start talking about clocks/watches/telephone calls/pebbles - you're on your own, I'm out of here :lol:
I want to thank Phil for the lead on Parts Connexion having the 6N30DP-DRs. They still have matched pairs in stock as I just placed an order!
Ken
Thanks Ken - I can't take the kudos for this, it was the CEO (Ted) that found these. I'll just take the kudos for the fuses (if they work), and if they don't work the pizzas are on me.
Mr CEO Ted:
Let me correctly thank you for the lead I obtained through Phil to contact Parts Connexion for the DRs. I found them to be very nice on the phone, immediately sent a confirming e-mail for me to verify that the order was correct and have already shipped. I am looking forward to receiving the tubes and the fuses and mostly to having more time to listen to music.
Thanks Again,
Ken
Oh stop it. :lol: I'm President, not CEO (Dan is the CEO in this analogy, right?). :D
Your welcome....please please give us feedback on the DR's after a couple days settling in. I'm waiting for a bad or average review....and assuming it won't be yours!! :thumb:
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Oh stop it. :lol: I'm President, not CEO (Dan is the CEO in this analogy, right?). :D
Your welcome....please please give us feedback on the DR's after a couple days settling in. I'm waiting for a bad or average review....and assuming it won't be yours!! :thumb:
[/quote]
Ted:
Okay, okay Mr. President! Based on the amount of information you have posted that has helped so many of us late comers with the ModWright Transporter, it is a well deserved title.
As anxious as I am to try the DRs, I am just as excited to install the HIFI Tuning Fuses to hear their impact. I think I will initially install the fuses with the current Mullard GZ-32 and RCA 6FQ7 combination and then try the DRs.
Ken
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David,
There is a 'Buy it Now' offering for a Mullard GZ37 on E-Bay UK. I have bought tubes from this seller and got what he advertised. It looks like he had 14 and 1 may be left. At 37 pounds it appears to be selling less than the going rate in the US. These were made in the UK so why not buy from the country of origin.
No affiliation with the seller and I have not tried the GZ37 variant in a TP or 36.5.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=320216201525&Category=39997&_trksid=p3907.m29
I don't yet own a Transporter but I've tried that GZ37 (brown base, military stock, late 50s to early 70s) and found it to be good but not as good as the brown or, even better, black base GZ32.
The GZ37 to get - if you have the money - is the 1950 to 1955 Mullard "High Wycombe" Big Bottle one (preferably black base, black plates but they're all good). What works best for me is the High Wycombe in the Sig. Truth Sony 9100 and the black base GZ32 in the 36.5.
Tube World and Tube Audio Products are the only sources I've found of this variant.
https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
http://tubeaudioproducts.com/Mullard-Brimar/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=65&ProductID=155
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Mullardtubes.com has the High Wycombe fat glass too, for $275.
http://mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155
RPF,
have you heard/tried a GZ33? Some sites call it better than the standard brown base GZ37. Dunno though.
-
Mullardtubes.com has the High Wycombe fat glass too, for $275.
http://mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155
RPF,
have you heard/tried a GZ33? Some sites call it better than the standard brown base GZ37. Dunno though.
Tube World has the High Wycombe fat glass for $250 each.
George
-
Mullardtubes.com has the High Wycombe fat glass too, for $275.
http://mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155
RPF,
have you heard/tried a GZ33? Some sites call it better than the standard brown base GZ37. Dunno though.
Mullard Tubes and Tube Audio Products are the same company.
I haven't tried the GZ33 yet. I've been meaning to ask Brendan or Dan if it is an acceptable substitute in Modwright gear.
-
Mullard Tubes and Tube Audio Products are the same company.
Correct. They are both owned by a pretty cool guy name Alfred. I got my brown bae GZ32 (CV593) and my 6H30 DR's from him :D
-
So has anybody compared a GZ32 and GZ33 or will be comparing them in the near future?
$250 is a lot of cash to just try something out.
George
-
So has anybody compared a GZ32 and GZ33 or will be comparing them in the near future?
$250 is a lot of cash to just try something out.
George
I dont believe the GZ33 was originally named as a suitable replacement. I am going to check with Dan and find out.
Now I just need to convince rpf to send me his High Wycombe fat glass GZ37 to try out :wink:
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I dont believe the GZ33 was originally named as a suitable replacement. I am going to check with Dan and find out.
Now I just need to convince rpf to send me his High Wycombe fat glass GZ37 to try out :wink:
No problem David. I have an extra one and I'd like to hear someone else's thoughts on it. Send me a PM with your address and I'll get it out to you.
Rob
-
I dont believe the GZ33 was originally named as a suitable replacement. I am going to check with Dan and find out.
Now I just need to convince rpf to send me his High Wycombe fat glass GZ37 to try out :wink:
No problem David. I have an extra one and I'd like to hear someone else's thoughts on it. Send me a PM with your address and I'll get it out to you.
Rob
Rob,
Very kewl. Thanks.
David,
No pressure...just a $275 per tube investment, riding on your thoughts alone, no one elses!! :D
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Rob,
Very kewl. Thanks.
David,
No pressure...just a $275 per tube investment, riding on your thoughts alone, no one elses!! :D
Ted, I don't mind it making a couple of trips for further evaluation if you'd like to try it out.
-
Wow, this tube rolling stuff is spinning my head.
I thought I would share my tube rolling process - it may work for you, it may not, it also might save time and money.
Typically when I put in a new tube it invariably sounds different to what it replaced, my immediate reaction is either 'this is fantastic' or 'this is rubbish'. What I do to compensate for this knee jerk reaction is try to leave the combination in for a couple of weeks, and then go back to what was in before - this stops me making rash decisions as sometimes a tube that sounds great in the beginning but may start to reveal sonic nasties that I can't live with. If the tube is so bad it might not make it beyond a week! At the same time my TP took about 3-4 months to burn-in (not sure what Dan would recommend for burn in time), so I would not recommend making any tube decisions during this time. As some of these NOS tubes have been lying around for years, they may need time to stabilize their electrical/musical properties.
If anyone has any other tube advice I'm open to try other techniques and ideas.
-
Phil,
Good comments. I do almost the exact same process. The best conclusions are reached when the 2-week tube comes out. It's funny, but for all gear this seems to follow suit. It's easier to hear what's missing than what's been "added". I also wholeheartedly agree on break-in comments, for the TP and the NOS tubes. I made a huge mistake 9and commented on it in an ealrier review) by not allowing NOS tubes to settle in for 75 hrs or so.
-
As my few comments on the "High Wycombe" Big Bottle GZ37 were in another thread, I should probably specify why I like it.
Of the rectifiers I've tried in the Modwright Sig. Truth Sony 9100 and LS 36.5 (including the Mullard GZ32 (brown and black base), GZ34 (std. black base), GZ37 (std. brown base and High Wycombe); RCA 5U4GB, and 5V4), the High Wycombe stands out for it's smoothness, bloom, musicality and enveloping soundstage.
It is more extended at the extremes than the regular GZ37, more relaxed and musical than the GZ34 (I have not heard the metal base version however), and "bigger" and yet more resolving than both.
In contrast the Mullard GZ 32 is tighter and more focused with better imaging than any of the other tubes. I've found one each of the black (definitely better than the brown) base GZ32 and High Wycombe GZ37 (with the former in the linestage and latter in the source) to be the best combination of virtues.
-
I dont believe the GZ33 was originally named as a suitable replacement. I am going to check with Dan and find out.
Now I just need to convince rpf to send me his High Wycombe fat glass GZ37 to try out :wink:
No problem David. I have an extra one and I'd like to hear someone else's thoughts on it. Send me a PM with your address and I'll get it out to you.
Rob
Rob,
Very kewl. Thanks.
David,
No pressure...just a $275 per tube investment, riding on your thoughts alone, no one elses!! :D
Great Rob, thanks!! :drool:
Damn Ted, that is some serious pressure :surrender:
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Ted, Dave, Phil, everyone, are you using tube dampeners on the ModWright Transporter Tubes?
Thanks,
Ken
-
Ted, Dave, Phil, everyone, are you using tube dampeners on the ModWright Transporter Tubes?
Thanks,
Ken
I personally do not.
-
Wow, this tube rolling stuff is spinning my head.
I thought I would share my tube rolling process - it may work for you, it may not, it also might save time and money.
Typically when I put in a new tube it invariably sounds different to what it replaced, my immediate reaction is either 'this is fantastic' or 'this is rubbish'. What I do to compensate for this knee jerk reaction is try to leave the combination in for a couple of weeks, and then go back to what was in before - this stops me making rash decisions as sometimes a tube that sounds great in the beginning but may start to reveal sonic nasties that I can't live with. If the tube is so bad it might not make it beyond a week! At the same time my TP took about 3-4 months to burn-in (not sure what Dan would recommend for burn in time), so I would not recommend making any tube decisions during this time. As some of these NOS tubes have been lying around for years, they may need time to stabilize their electrical/musical properties.
If anyone has any other tube advice I'm open to try other techniques and ideas.
This makes good sense to me too. The only thing that I would add, is that there are often significant interactions between tube types, so sequential testing might not reveal the best solutions for your system and your taste. For instance, I really like the RCA clear tops with the Mullard GZ34 rectifier, and I prefer the 6H30-DR with the Tung-Sol 5U4. When used the other way around (e.g. RCA/Tung-Sol) I like the result less well than the other combinations. This process also brings back "losers" from previous combinations in ways that may showcase or enhance their strengths. Plus it's fun to do, altho detailed listening notes help a lot. I'm still acquiring alternative tubes, but it's getting harder and harder to displace my champions, so the process seems to be working.
I guess source material matters too. Small jazz combos might be better served with some combinations while multi-orchestra extravaganza's or electronica might benefit from others. Whatever floats your boat.
HTH
Frank
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"Detailed listening notes". Good one. I can honestly say that I'm currently overwhelmed by my tube rolling. I've only just gotten into this tube hobby since the 36.5 and TP, very late in life. I've gone too quickly and lost a lot of interaction data. I need desperately to take good listening notes. The tubes interaction, combined with pc's and cables, combined with two units (source and pre) is almost too much. I must get much more process-oriented. Thanks for the good tips.
My fuses arrived today but I'm sorry to say that I have two big demos coming up (speaker cable and amps) that have a short half life, so I'll forego changing fuses until after they are demo'd and leave. I look forward to my VP's reporting back their own feedback. :D
Oh, and I used to use Herbies tube dampers, but for whatever reason I don't currently.
-
Ted, Dave, Phil, everyone, are you using tube dampeners on the ModWright Transporter Tubes?
Thanks,
Ken
I have a couple of the Herbies lying around, they are probably last on my list at the moment. All the tube rolling/combo stuff has a bigger impact on the sonic performance (I think) . The problem with the MW TP is that its too addictive - I work from home and take the odd break :oops: which can stretch into an extended listening session.
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The problem with the MW TP is that its too addictive - I work from home and take the odd break :oops: which can stretch into an extended listening session.
I can relate to this. I too work from home, and find myself zoned out, drawn into the music, and where's that report I was working on? Damn fool hobby. :lol:
Currently listening to Rachael Yamagata (great singer!) using the 6H30-DR signal tubes and a 1 winged "C" 5U3C soviet 5U4 equivalent rectifier. Bass is a little bit loose compared to the Tung-Sol 5U4-G, but it's early days yet... Now, where was I? Oh yeah, back to the report...
-
I'm running 6H30-DR supertubes and a 1955 Mullard GZ34 metal-base rectifier in my MW TP. My search is finally over. What a marvelous combo! Now I can just sit back and enjoy the music.
-
Case,
I have been waiting for someone to try this fantastic tube in a TP! I know Dan used one at the audio show in Germany and seemed to like it. I use one in my ModWright SWL 9.0 as well as in the PS for a ModWright Sony 9100. You have an early version with the welded plates. I have both versions and have not had the time to compared the welded plate to the folded plate version.
Here is a link to the Philips GZ34 versions:
http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20GZ34/GZ34.htm
Enjoy your TP!
-
Hi guys, it has come to my attention that at least a couple of you have experienced blown fuses when using the GZ32 rectifier tube with the Transporter. We confirmed the same here, depending on the tube. I have reviewed the datasheet and confirmed the reason. We are using a cap-input filter with the Transporter, rather than a choke input type. All of the preamps and outboard supplies for the player mods use a choke-inpu filter.
If the first thing that the rectifier sees is a capacitor at its output, there is a large inrush current as the rectifier tube charges the capacitor. The larger the capacitor, the larger the inrush current. We are using a pair of 100uf-450V caps in series from B+ to ground, resulting in a net 50uf capacitor as load to the rectifier. The GZ32 recommends a max 60uf cap, but that is dependant of the resistance of the coil windings and input resistor value. The GZ34 and 5U4 have similar recommended limitations, but they perform flawlessly. As a result, I would simply recommend AGAINST the use of the GZ32/5V4 tubes in the Transporter.
The only thing that may happen, if the GZ32 rectifier is used, is that the 3A SB fuse may blow and need to be replaced. This does not in any way damage the unit or tube, but does require removal of the lid of the Transporter to access 3A SB fuse on the mod tube board. It is a 5x20mm size fuse.
Thanks,
Dan W.
-
Thanks Dan.
I have been using a NOS Philips 1966 GZ32 with no problems (knock on wood).
Can a GZ33 be used in the TP?
George
-
I also have a Philips GZ32 NOS 1966 that came from Tube World, with no problems.
I'm assuming its OK to keep using it (at my risk).
Those metal base GZ34's are now priced more than I'm prepared to pay, the last one I monitored on EBay went for $270 (used), it would be fun to try one though.
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Hi guys, it has come to my attention that at least a couple of you have experienced blown fuses when using the GZ32 rectifier tube with the Transporter. We confirmed the same here, depending on the tube. I have reviewed the datasheet and confirmed the reason. We are using a cap-input filter with the Transporter, rather than a choke input type. All of the preamps and outboard supplies for the player mods use a choke-inpu filter.
If the first thing that the rectifier sees is a capacitor at its output, there is a large inrush current as the rectifier tube charges the capacitor. The larger the capacitor, the larger the inrush current. We are using a pair of 100uf-450V caps in series from B+ to ground, resulting in a net 50uf capacitor as load to the rectifier. The GZ32 recommends a max 60uf cap, but that is dependant of the resistance of the coil windings and input resistor value. The GZ34 and 5U4 have similar recommended limitations, but they perform flawlessly. As a result, I would simply recommend AGAINST the use of the GZ32/5V4 tubes in the Transporter.
The only thing that may happen, if the GZ32 rectifier is used, is that the 3A SB fuse may blow and need to be replaced. This does not in any way damage the unit or tube, but does require removal of the lid of the Transporter to access 3A SB fuse on the mod tube board. It is a 5x20mm size fuse.
Thanks,
Dan W.
Interesting, I haven't tried a GZ32, but I was interested in trying one after reading some comments about their sound on this board. I actually ordered a Phillips Miniwatt from Kevin Deal at upscale audio, based on his description of the sound (on his web site). Before shipping, Kevin sent a note cautioning me about using it in a circuit not especially designed for it--and he talked me into just sticking with my old coke bottle Tung Sol 5UGB.
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I replaced a fat base Mullard GZ34 last night with my latest Tung Sol 5U4G. After about an hour of warm up I settled in for what I can describe as the best sound yet (with my Bent TAP preamp; the 36.5 front end isn't due back till Wednesday). It has a sound that is both deep and wide, yet with nice dynamics and detail. Very nice so far. Of course the signal tubes are the DR's.
I've run my Philips Mullard (June 1966) GZ32 with no problems. It's one of my faves.
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Guys,
What are the sonic differences between a Tung-Sol 5U4G and Tung-Sol 5U4GB?
George
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At some point we need to throw in a few more variables - just to keep it simple :duh: and that is cryoing.
I had a pair of cryoed tubes with my 999ES, and have a pair with the TP, I cannot really comment on the value of doing this with so few data points. Some tube vendors take scarce tubes and cryo them, I'm not sure if this increases their sonic performance or not - all I do know is that it inceases the cost.
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George,
I'll tell you in 2 weeks or so when I swap the TS G for one of my TS GB's. My memory says the GB is warmer but less open and airy. That data is worth about $.02. I need to write this stuff down. :duh:
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Phil,
Be patient and you will find a tested metal base GZ34. Dan snagged his GZ34 recently as a 'Buy it Now' for less than $150 and I have found 7 for under $200. Search E-Bay Germany for the Valvo (Philips production) or E-Bay Netherlands. The Philips, Mullard, Miniwatt and Valvo branded GZ34 are are Philips production and the same tube. As these were made in Holland, you can find some pretty sweet deals if you search these sites.
Good luck!
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Phil,
Be patient and you will find a tested metal base GZ34. Dan snagged his GZ34 recently as a 'Buy it Now' for less than $150 and I have found 7 for under $200. Search E-Bay Germany for the Volvo (Philips production) or E-Bay Netherlands. The Philips, Mullard, Miniwatt and Valvo branded GZ34 are are Philips production and the same tube. As these were made in Holland, you can find some pretty sweet deals if you search these sites.
Good luck!
Thanks for the tip - I'll give these sites a try.
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Ted,
The TS 5U4G with the top getter is re-listed with a 'Best Offer' option as well as the 'Buy it Now'.
It sounds like you are enjoying the more common bottom getter TS 5U4G.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=380037416892&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=025
Sooooooooooooooooo many tubes!!!
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Hi guys, a couple of things.
First of all, I bought a couple of pairs of 'DR's and will be experimenting with them in the preamp and the Transporter and will share here, my personal observations.
RE the GZ32, my previous post was merely a caution. Obviously others have had no problems with it. It won't damage the unit at all, but could cause the fuse to fail. I am sure that this is all also dependent on the specific GZ32, manufacturer, age, etc. I have had no other such problems with any of the tubes recommended. I have experienced some arcing over with other GZ2's in our preamp also, which has a choke input design and does NOT have large amounts of capacitance following the rectifier.
Just trying to keep on top of all of this and wanted to issue a caution regarding this specific tube.
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Thanks to everyone her for all of this info, particularly Philistine for answering my earlier question.
I have been very impressed with 6h30 dr. I have tried a Mullard GZ34 and two Tung Sol 5u4g's. I like the Tung Sol much better so far - much smoother. However, the Mullard I tried was used, so it may not be in top form. The Mullard gz34 did seem to improve imaging.
All very preliminary at this point, but I doubt that the 6H30's are leaving.
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Everyone's ears are different of course, but I'll be presumptious anyway and say that I think the DR's are the holy grail of signal tubes for the MW TP.
As for the Mullard GZ34, until you've heard a metal base, don't give up on that model. I realize they aren't cheap, nor available on every street corner, but WELL worth the effort. The difference between the regular black base and the metal, are night and day. Completely different sonic presentation. The former: syrupy, rolled at both extremes, wonderful midrange, good but not great soundstage and depth. The latter: fast, detailed, extended at both extremes, soundstage is wide and as deep as the ocean, depth is as it should be. It is one of those perfect combinations that allows instruments to float in their own little space, with perfect layering, and yet oodles of weight to every one of those instruments within that stage.
As I mentioned to ted in a PM, I'm done with my tube rolling.
YMMV :thumb:
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Everyone's ears are different of course, but I'll be presumptious anyway and say that I think the DR's are the holy grail of signal tubes for the MW TP.
As for the Mullard GZ34, until you've heard a metal base, don't give up on that model. I realize they aren't cheap, nor available on every street corner, but WELL worth the effort. The difference between the regular black base and the metal, are night and day. Completely different sonic presentation. The former: syrupy, rolled at both extremes, wonderful midrange, good but not great soundstage and depth. The latter: fast, detailed, extended at both extremes, soundstage is wide and as deep as the ocean, depth is as it should be. It is one of those perfect combinations that allows instruments to float in their own little space, with perfect layering, and yet oodles of weight to every one of those instruments within that stage.
As I mentioned to ted in a PM, I'm done with my tube rolling.
YMMV :thumb:
As the DR's start to 'dry up' then we need to find the next best thing (or better) for future TP owners - Parts Connexion are selling cryoed versions of the 'newer' 6H30, could this be the answer? Also the 6N1P is a good cheap tube, maybe this could be cryoed for further improvement?
I'm happy to send a few tubes off for freezing - anyone have any recommendations for cryoing companies?
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As the DR's start to 'dry up' then we need to find the next best thing (or better) for future TP owners - Parts Connexion are selling cryoed versions of the 'newer' 6H30, could this be the answer? Also the 6N1P is a good cheap tube, maybe this could be cryoed for further improvement?
I'm happy to send a few tubes off for freezing - anyone have any recommendations for cryoing companies?
I agree Phil...and I tell ya, the 6N1P are a pretty good sounding tube, especially considering the price difference between that and the DR. I will most likely keep looking for a deal on another pair of DR's. I would assume they are fairly reliable tubes longevity-wise, if companies like BAT and others are using them.
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I replaced a fat base Mullard GZ34 last night with my latest Tung Sol 5U4G. After about an hour of warm up I settled in for what I can describe as the best sound yet (with my Bent TAP preamp; the 36.5 front end isn't due back till Wednesday). It has a sound that is both deep and wide, yet with nice dynamics and detail. Very nice so far. Of course the signal tubes are the DR's.
I've run my Philips Mullard (June 1966) GZ32 with no problems. It's one of my faves.
I have been loving my TS 5U4G. The one I have has a top getter. I also notice that it has 2 extra support rods between the T shaped plates. I have also found some other TS 5U4G variants that don't have the 2 extra support rods. I haven't found the time to sit down and listen to the different variants....but then again I am so happy with the one I have coupled with the 6H30DRs that I don't have a lot of incentive to roll tubes. The next time I feel like a serious listening/evaluation session, I will compare the NOS 6H30DRs with the Mazda 6CG7s that I purchased from Upscale Audio.
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Everyone's ears are different of course, but I'll be presumptious anyway and say that I think the DR's are the holy grail of signal tubes for the MW TP.
As for the Mullard GZ34, until you've heard a metal base, don't give up on that model. I realize they aren't cheap, nor available on every street corner, but WELL worth the effort. The difference between the regular black base and the metal, are night and day. Completely different sonic presentation. The former: syrupy, rolled at both extremes, wonderful midrange, good but not great soundstage and depth. The latter: fast, detailed, extended at both extremes, soundstage is wide and as deep as the ocean, depth is as it should be. It is one of those perfect combinations that allows instruments to float in their own little space, with perfect layering, and yet oodles of weight to every one of those instruments within that stage.
As I mentioned to ted in a PM, I'm done with my tube rolling.
YMMV :thumb:
Hey Case, your description of the Mullard GZ34 sound is exactly consistent with my own experience. Nice to see converging evidence. :) I have pretty much settled on the 6H30-DR's myself as best signal tubes, but I'm still playing with a boat-load of 5U4 alternatives. My faves are still the Tung-Sols, especially the 5U4-G, but also the 5U4GB. The Sylvania 5931's are pretty good too, very different sound. I have been less thrilled with other Sylvanias, RCA's, GE's or Ratheon 5U4 types I've tried. I tried three types of GZ34's and all of them sounded like your description of the Mullards, to one degree or another. I had pretty much given up on the type, but your post suggests that might be premature. Thanks (I think). I'm too cheap to go for the metal base GZ34's altho I'll certainly keep my eyes open.
Oh, and thanks Dan for the caveat on the GZ32. :nono: I used one for a month with no problems (a late Mullard), but I think I prefer the Tung-Sol 5U4-G, so I haven't yet gone back to it. Jury is still out, I haven't tried the GZ32 with the 6H30-DR's.
Fun stuff!
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Mike,
The TS 5U4G with the top getter and 2 support rods between the plates is supposed to be 'THE' TS 5U4G!
Interested to hear your comparisons of the TS variants.
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In regards to the GZ32 I can confirm I have blown 2 fuses with the Phillips Dario Miniwatt GZ32. And I tried it wil two different tubes to ensure it was not a bad tube. So it certainly depends on the GZ32 you use and it can result in a blown fuse.
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I will have a NOS 5U4GB Tung-Sol from Jim McShane later this week.
I will be comparing them with my other rectifier options:
Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 NOS- $350
Philips 1966 GZ32- $160
Super Radiotron 1960's 5AS4- $110
I am sticking with the 6H30-DR's for the signal tubes.
george
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I agree with everyone comments about the DR being an incredible tube. However, for the few of us out there that run both the Modwright TP and the 36.5 you really need to hear the DR in the 36.5. For me, as good as the tubes are in the TP they were significantly better in the 36.5. The 36.5 was designed to only use the 6H30 tube so that may have something to do with it? I am still curious was a double dose of the DR would sound like???
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I agree with everyone comments about the DR being an incredible tube. However, for the few of us out there that run both the Modwright TP and the 36.5 you really need to hear the DR in the 36.5. For me, as good as the tubes are in the TP they were significantly better in the 36.5. The 36.5 was designed to only use the 6H30 tube so that may have something to do with it? I am still curious was a double dose of the DR would sound like???
David,
I'll report back on that (double dose of DR's) when the front end comes back Wednesday. We're going away for a few days so I won't report anything significant until next week.
The Tung Sol 5U4G (ST style) is my favorite rectifier in the TP so far, which mirrors a few other conclusions. The Sylvania 5U4G and Tung Sol GB run second currently.....all these being married to the DR's.
I won a metal base GZ34 on Ebay this weekend and will have it shipped from Germany today. I'll report back.
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Sweet Ted! I did not realize you had multiple sets of DR's. I am very curious if it will be awesome or too much of a good thing?
It would be interesting if you had another of those metal base 5AR4's to see how they sound in the DM :drool:
In other news, the Cable Company really needs to work on their communication skills. I was told all of the fuses I ordered where in stock and my CC was charged accordingly. When I received only one of the three fuses I ordered this past weekend I was perplexed. I called this morning and was told the two 3.15A slow blow fuses are backordered for two weeks :( Furthermore I was told by the lady I spoke two that my sales guy had been made aware of this and he told her I was aware of it and told him to charge my CC the full amount anyway :nono: This is all major news to me and I find it kinda shady to be honest. Anyway, it seems like I will not be able to report back on the hifi fuses for a few weeks.
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Guys,
Reading about the fuse upgrades, I thought I would mention a cost effective alternative. I came across this company, Acme Audio Labs, that provides silver plated, cryo treated ceramic fuses. At $12 each they are certainly worth consideration. I bought a few but haven't gotten around to installing them yet. They supply a variety of the cryo treated power related parts also.
http://www.acmeaudiolabs.com/products.htm
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I'll go against the tide on rectifier tubes on this one -
I have a TS 5U4GB, which is on the warm side, my TS 5U4G is on it's way out so my only real comparison is with an Emerson 5U4G - the 5U4G has more detail but has the downside of being too bright (maybe a good TS 5U4G would fix this?).
Replacing these with a NOS Amperex Bugle Boy 5AR4 hits the spot - it gives me the detail (and more) of my 5U4G, its smoother and the soundstage is very three dimensional. So far my perfect tube.
The GZ32 is very close to it.
I have a metal base 5AR4 on its way, this should be fun to compare.
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Guys,
Reading about the fuse upgrades, I thought I would mention a cost effective alternative. I came across this company, Acme Audio Labs, that provides silver plated, cryo treated ceramic fuses. At $12 each they are certainly worth consideration. I bought a few but haven't gotten around to installing them yet. They supply a variety of the cryo treated power related parts also.
http://www.acmeaudiolabs.com/products.htm
Another fuse alternative is from one of our own - Lee from CryoParts.com (http://www.cryo-parts.com/fuses.html)
(http://www.cryo-parts.com/images/cerfuses.jpg)
George
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Guys,
Reading about the fuse upgrades, I thought I would mention a cost effective alternative. I came across this company, Acme Audio Labs, that provides silver plated, cryo treated ceramic fuses. At $12 each they are certainly worth consideration. I bought a few but haven't gotten around to installing them yet. They supply a variety of the cryo treated power related parts also.
http://www.acmeaudiolabs.com/products.htm
Another fuse alternative is from one of our own - Lee from CryoParts.com (http://www.cryo-parts.com/fuses.html)
(http://www.cryo-parts.com/images/cerfuses.jpg)
George
I don't see a 3A fuse, either a 2A or 4A - not sure how critical the value is, guess it depends on the tolerances DW has in the design.
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Guys,
Reading about the fuse upgrades, I thought I would mention a cost effective alternative. I came across this company, Acme Audio Labs, that provides silver plated, cryo treated ceramic fuses. At $12 each they are certainly worth consideration. I bought a few but haven't gotten around to installing them yet. They supply a variety of the cryo treated power related parts also.
http://www.acmeaudiolabs.com/products.htm
Another fuse alternative is from one of our own - Lee from CryoParts.com (http://www.cryo-parts.com/fuses.html)
(http://www.cryo-parts.com/images/cerfuses.jpg)
George
I don't see a 3A fuse, either a 2A or 4A - not sure how critical the value is, guess it depends on the tolerances DW has in the design.
It's there, you just need to scroll down to the smaller size that is needed:
(http://www.cryo-parts.com/images/smallcersloblo.jpg)
Sorry for posting the "wrong" picture.
George
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Yes thats the right one - that works, and its better value.
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Phil,
I look forward to your evaluation of the metal base GZ34. If you like the Amperex BB 5AR4/GZ34 and it is a true Philips Holland production tube with dual 'D' getters, I have a feeling you will REALLY like the metal base GZ34. It may not have the cool looks of the 5U4G or GZ32, but does it ever sound nice!
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Phil,
I look forward to your evaluation of the metal base GZ34. If you like the Amperex BB 5AR4/GZ34 and it is a true Philips Holland production tube with dual 'D' getters, I have a feeling you will REALLY like the metal base GZ34. It may not have the cool looks of the 5U4G or GZ32, but does it ever sound nice!
Metal base 5AR4 in house since Thursday :thumb: very good, I'll give it a few more days/weeks before commenting.
In the meantime I found this cryoed 6N1P if anyone is brave enough:
http://www.electron-tubes-audio.com/item330.htm
They also have croyed 6H30 Pi-EB's.
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I just replaced a Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 NOS with a Tung-Sol 5U4GB NOS purchased from Jim McShane.
I need to get some hours before I report back, but I can say that the switch doesn't have me running to put the Mullard back in.
George
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I just replaced a Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 NOS with a Tung-Sol 5U4GB NOS purchased from Jim McShane.
I need to get some hours before I report back, but I can say that the switch doesn't have me running to put the Mullard back in.
George
Hi George. I think you'll like the TS 5U4GB a lot. I go back & forth on the GB vs. the G bottle-shaped version. I think it sounds a bit richer and deeper bass than the TS 5U4-G does. And it killed all three of the different 5AR4/GZ34 Mullards that I tried (altho I'm too cheap to go for the metal base one that others are having good success with :tempted:).
The good news is the TS 5U4GB are conveniently available. I've got about 6 of various production dates that I picked up for less than $10 each. Of course, mine haven't been tested & verified by Jim McShane :lol: And Jim also cleans all the tube pins before he ships -- great service! :thumb:
Keep us posted on your impressions
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Well, last night I swapped out my current fave Tung Sol 5U4G for my newest addition, a Valvo/Mullard early 50's vintage 5AR4/GZ34 metal base
(http://i14.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/f3/4e/9ba8_1.JPG)
and my tube board fuse blew. :cry: Hmmm....luckily it was the stock fuse, not the $39 HiFi Tuning one I was about to install later this week. I've got to go to Rat Shack and get more to try again and determine if this fairly $$ used Ebay tube is bad....guess I could go to a local tv repair-type shop and use their tube tester huh? Dunno about any of these things, really.
Well, I put the Tung Sol back in and replaced the fuse with the only one I had, the HiFi Tuning one, temporarily. While I was in there I noticed the main ac fuse, on the board nearest the IEC, is marked on the pc board as 500mA slo blo...but the recommendations here were 1A fast blo, so I removed the fuse and sure enough it is indeed a 500mA slo. Are these interchangeable, one being rated 2x over the other and fast not slo? Thx
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I agree with everyone comments about the DR being an incredible tube. However, for the few of us out there that run both the Modwright TP and the 36.5 you really need to hear the DR in the 36.5. For me, as good as the tubes are in the TP they were significantly better in the 36.5. The 36.5 was designed to only use the 6H30 tube so that may have something to do with it? I am still curious was a double dose of the DR would sound like???
I won a metal base GZ34 on Ebay this weekend and will have it shipped from Germany today. I'll report back.
I should have known it was you!
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Pete, when are you getting rid of your Squeezebox and DAC and taking the plung into the Transporter??? :wink:
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Well, last night I swapped out my current fave Tung Sol 5U4G for my newest addition, a Valvo/Mullard early 50's vintage 5AR4/GZ34 metal base
and my tube board fuse blew. :cry: Hmmm....luckily it was the stock fuse, not the $39 HiFi Tuning one I was about to install later this week. I've got to go to Rat Shack and get more to try again and determine if this fairly $$ used Ebay tube is bad....guess I could go to a local tv repair-type shop and use their tube tester huh? Dunno about any of these things, really.
Well, I put the Tung Sol back in and replaced the fuse with the only one I had, the HiFi Tuning one, temporarily. While I was in there I noticed the main ac fuse, on the board nearest the IEC, is marked on the pc board as 500mA slo blo...but the recommendations here were 1A fast blo, so I removed the fuse and sure enough it is indeed a 500mA slo. Are these interchangeable, one being rated 2x over the other and fast not slo? Thx
Ted, I have tried out a few different 5AR4's and had no issues so I wonder if it is that tube? I am glad to hear with was not your HiFi fuse. I can safely say that this porder I placed will be the last time the Cable Company ever sees business from me. They are not very good at telling the truth. Anyway, that is very surprising at the main ac fuse. I hope Dan will respond to us as i already have a HiFi fuse for it (1A fast blow) but have not installed it yet as I am waiting till I get my 3a ones (if I ever do :bawl:)
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David, I'm sorry to hear you've had problems with the Cable Company. I've dealt with Paul there for several years and it's been nothing but a pleasure. They can be a little slow at times (and even forgetful over minor things when they're really busy) but they've always been generous with loans, excellent with information and good with pricing. Maybe it was your sales person? :scratch:
Let me know when you're ready to try the High Wycombe GZ37.
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David, I'm sorry to hear you've had problems with the Cable Company. I've dealt with Paul there for several years and it's been nothing but a pleasure. They can be a little slow at times (and even forgetful over minor things when they're really busy) but they've always been generous with loans, excellent with information and good with pricing. Maybe it was your sales person? :scratch:
I know others seem to have luck but i guess just not me. Each time i order something i always say it is the last time :duh:
Let me know when you're ready to try the High Wycombe GZ37.
I was born ready! :thumb:
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Joe @ The Cable Company is a gentleman and a scholar..and great to do business with. If I have a borrow issue my next one is free, my orders arrive in like 2 days (hifi fuses came in 2 days; special orders like AR-77 and some Wattgates took a little longer) and he's knowledgeable and has pointed me in less expensive or less traveled paths, almost always with a success. It helps that they are one state over.
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I had a guy named John who did not tell me 2 of the 3 three fuses I ordered were on back-order. He then told the lady Chris that he had spoken to me about this and that I told him to charge me for everything anyway, which was a total lie :nono: I have then left three messages this week to try and find out the status of the fuses I ordered a few weeks ago and I have yet to get a call back. Very, very shady and unethical. Sorry for going OT and letting me vent...
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Ted,
My guess is that you have a bad tube on your hands. Only way for sure to tell, as you said, is to find a tester and run it. Sorry to hear your first foray with that tube didn't go well. Assuming this was an Ebay purchase, might be time to contact the seller. Glad to hear it didn't take out your good fuse.
Bob
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Found a tube tester. Wow, what a find. Ended up getting in contact with an elderly man who had sold his repair shop years ago, and then got the itch, so he runs it out of his garage/work area....he has a nice 5 acres at the dead end of a modest street of 1/5 acre lots. he was the first one there 50 yrs ago and bought the land at the end, and has since built it up into a nice little parklike area. Come to find out he is the father of one of my high school buddies. His work area has 17,000 tubes all cataloged in boxes and boxes and boxes.
He tested the tube and it's good....comes up slowly to full power (which he says is the sign of a very long lasting tube), but good nonetheless. I'll try again tonight (with a cheap fuse) and report back.
Edit: Fired it up...we have liftoff...we have music (so far so good). :thumb:
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17,000 tubes???? Wow. :drool:
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Found a tube tester. Wow, what a find. Ended up getting in contact with an elderly man who had sold his repair shop years ago, and then got the itch, so he runs it out of his garage/work area....he has a nice 5 acres at the dead end of a modest street of 1/5 acre lots. he was the first one there 50 yrs ago and bought the land at the end, and has since built it up into a nice little parklike area. Come to find out he is the father of one of my high school buddies. His work area has 17,000 tubes all cataloged in boxes and boxes and boxes.
He tested the tube and it's good....comes up slowly to full power (which he says is the sign of a very long lasting tube), but good nonetheless. I'll try again tonight (with a cheap fuse) and report back.
Edit: Fired it up...we have liftoff...we have music (so far so good). :thumb:
What a cool story. It is amazing where a day can take us sometimes.
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I dont believe the GZ33 was originally named as a suitable replacement. I am going to check with Dan and find out.
Now I just need to convince rpf to send me his High Wycombe fat glass GZ37 to try out :wink:
No problem David. I have an extra one and I'd like to hear someone else's thoughts on it. Send me a PM with your address and I'll get it out to you.
Rob
Rob,
Very kewl. Thanks.
David,
No pressure...just a $275 per tube investment, riding on your thoughts alone, no one elses!! :D
Great Rob, thanks!! :drool:
Damn Ted, that is some serious pressure :surrender:
Hi Guys:
Did you ever try the GZ-37 and if so what are your comments? I am still running a Mullard GZ-32 and the 6H30DR combination and waiting on a 5AR4 (Mullard GZ34) to arrive from Germany to try with the DRs.
Ken
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Ken, Rob will be sending me out his GZ-37 today :thumb:
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Ken, Rob will be sending me out his GZ-37 today :thumb:
David:
I certainly look forward to reading your review. You have rolled many tubes through the Transporter and I know you will be able to tell us how the GZ-37 stacks up to your favorites.
Thanks,
Ken
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So it's been 28 hours now and I really like the 5AR4/GZ34 metal base Mullard (Valvo) in combo with the DR's. It has a very deep, warm sound, but not at all muddy or bloomy. CD's like Daniel Lanois's Arcadie sound incredible; the classic Lanois-sound of textured acoustic guitar work and ethereal effects...although this is with my backup Bent TAP preamp, a passive TVC-based ss preamp (my Modwright 36.5 is in Amboy for some minor repair). The TAP, though, is not at all cold or "ss" sounding; just not as musical and deep as my 36.5 DM. So i'll post back once the 36.5 is back in the path. I'm very impressed with the metal base, and it will supposedly last forever.
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So it's been 28 hours now and I really like the 5AR4/GZ34 metal base Mullard (Valvo) in combo with the DR's. It has a very deep, warm sound, but not at all muddy or bloomy. CD's like Daniel Lanois's Arcadie sound incredible; the classic Lanois-sound of textured acoustic guitar work and ethereal effects...although this is with my backup Bent TAP preamp, a passive TVC-based ss preamp (my Modwright 36.5 is in Amboy for some minor repair). The TAP, though, is not at all cold or "ss" sounding; just not as musical and deep as my 36.5 DM. So i'll post back once the 36.5 is back in the path. I'm very impressed with the metal base, and it will supposedly last forever.
I have the Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 from Tube World and while I like it, I think I like the Tung-Sol 5U4GB a little more, but I will need to switch back before I can definitely say.
I wonder how the Black Base differs from the metal base?
Here is what Brendan now says on his site for the Black Base:
Double D getter halos, smooth plates.
Same sound as the metal base 5AR4 from 1955-1957
Modwright LS 36.5 power supply
George
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Ted,
Have you had to feed the MWTP any more fuses with the new metal base GZ34 rectifier?
Since my MWTP passed its 300th hour of break-in, I have been busy accumulating an impressive number of tubes and doing some serious comparative listening (with pen and paper in hand).
While my results closely parallel those previously posted here, there have been one or two "surprises".
Will be posting with details shortly.
This is one AMAZING piece of kit, this...
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So it's been 28 hours now and I really like the 5AR4/GZ34 metal base Mullard (Valvo) in combo with the DR's. It has a very deep, warm sound, but not at all muddy or bloomy. CD's like Daniel Lanois's Arcadie sound incredible; the classic Lanois-sound of textured acoustic guitar work and ethereal effects...although this is with my backup Bent TAP preamp, a passive TVC-based ss preamp (my Modwright 36.5 is in Amboy for some minor repair). The TAP, though, is not at all cold or "ss" sounding; just not as musical and deep as my 36.5 DM. So i'll post back once the 36.5 is back in the path. I'm very impressed with the metal base, and it will supposedly last forever.
I have the Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 from Tube World and while I like it, I think I like the Tung-Sol 5U4GB a little more, but I will need to switch back before I can definitely say.
I wonder how the Black Base differs from the metal base?
Here is what Brendan now says on his site for the Black Base:
Double D getter halos, smooth plates.
Same sound as the metal base 5AR4 from 1955-1957
Modwright LS 36.5 power supply
George
George,
I have both a black base and a fat base black, and also the TS GB. I like the Tung Sol GB better, too...but the metal base even more so, at least so far with the Bent TAP (big caveat). The net of this, though, is that I don't agree that the metal base has the same sound as a black base (unless cryo'ing the black base adds that much magic....dunno).
Have you had to feed the MWTP any more fuses with the new metal base GZ34 rectifier?
No, the metal base has behaved itself since last night's new stock 3.15A fuse.
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Thanks Ted.
Maybe on my next trip out of town I will send you some tubes to try.
George
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Just thought I'd mention this as I noticed this a while back: on Brendan's Tubeworld page, if you search for the regular (non Kuhl tube) 5ar4 page, it says this about the non-metal base referred to in this thread:
($350 each Kuhl-Tube cryo-treated, sounds nearly the same as the metal base GZ34)
So here at least, he seems to be implying that there is some difference in sound to the two, and one would certainly hope so at almost double the price. In the end only an email or phone call to him would probably flesh out the differences. For my part, I'm considering the metal base, but man...$650...
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I got my metal base from Ebay for $150.
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$650 seems very high. I was offered a 1950's Amperex Holland made Metal Base NOS 5AR4 yesterday for around $350. I understand that to be a pretty good price but I feel like that is a lot for a tube :o
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Just thought I'd mention this as I noticed this a while back: on Brendan's Tubeworld page, if you search for the regular (non Kuhl tube) 5ar4 page, it says this about the non-metal base referred to in this thread:
($350 each Kuhl-Tube cryo-treated, sounds nearly the same as the metal base GZ34)
So here at least, he seems to be implying that there is some difference in sound to the two, and one would certainly hope so at almost double the price. In the end only an email or phone call to him would probably flesh out the differences. For my part, I'm considering the metal base, but man...$650...
$650 for a single tube or a pair?
I can't possibly believe anybody would pay $650 for a single tube.
George
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Just thought I'd mention this as I noticed this a while back: on Brendan's Tubeworld page, if you search for the regular (non Kuhl tube) 5ar4 page, it says this about the non-metal base referred to in this thread:
($350 each Kuhl-Tube cryo-treated, sounds nearly the same as the metal base GZ34)
So here at least, he seems to be implying that there is some difference in sound to the two, and one would certainly hope so at almost double the price. In the end only an email or phone call to him would probably flesh out the differences. For my part, I'm considering the metal base, but man...$650...
$650 for a single tube or a pair?
I can't possibly believe anybody would pay $650 for a single tube.
George
He's referring to Brendan's Kuhl Tube Philips Miniwatt metal base. No offense, but wayyyyy too much for this.
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Just thought I'd mention this as I noticed this a while back: on Brendan's Tubeworld page, if you search for the regular (non Kuhl tube) 5ar4 page, it says this about the non-metal base referred to in this thread:
($350 each Kuhl-Tube cryo-treated, sounds nearly the same as the metal base GZ34)
So here at least, he seems to be implying that there is some difference in sound to the two, and one would certainly hope so at almost double the price. In the end only an email or phone call to him would probably flesh out the differences. For my part, I'm considering the metal base, but man...$650...
I have that cryo'd 5ar4, as well as a metal base GZ34. I can tell you, they are NOT close. The metal base kicks its hiney. The only rectifier I have heard that bests the metal base GZ34, is the Sophia Princess mesh 274b. Unfortunately it is a very quick heating tube, and likes to see a very low value cap ahead of it. I wish like hell we could use it with the MW transporter, as it has virtually the same characteristics as the metal base, but improves upon it slightly in all areas. Best part??? Readily available @ $190.
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He's referring to Brendan's Kuhl Tube Philips Miniwatt metal base. No offense, but wayyyyy too much for this.
I got that same tube, slightly used, from Ebay for $260 incl shipping from the Netherlands. No cryo though. Can't imagine $400 worth of deep freeze could be cost effective....although I'm sure Brendan is selling a NIB tube.
Buying this tube used from a trusted seller, is a great way to go, as these tubes would most likely outlast anything you're liable to install it into. A nice perk.
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Ted, did Dan ever get back to you about your question regarding the main ac fuse?
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Ted, did Dan ever get back to you about your question regarding the main ac fuse?
Yeah, I'm a little curious about that myself. It's such a benign tube on the equipment, I was surprised this happened.
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Yes, it is a 500mA slo blo (at least mine is), as per page 27 of the manual. He says a 1A fast blo should be ok, though. I'll likely return mine to CableCo and get the equivalent one.
cAsEsEnSiTiVe,
The fuse Rydenfan is asking about is NOT the tube board, it's the main ac. The tube board fuse is 3.15A slo blo and I've replaced it twice over the 8 months or so (tmrw is 8 month anniversary..cake and ice cream). Seems a little fragile, but no big deal.
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I have that cryo'd 5ar4, as well as a metal base GZ34. I can tell you, they are NOT close. The metal base kicks its hiney. The only rectifier I have heard that bests the metal base GZ34, is the Sophia Princess mesh 274b. Unfortunately it is a very quick heating tube, and likes to see a very low value cap ahead of it. I wish like hell we could use it with the MW transporter, as it has virtually the same characteristics as the metal base, but improves upon it slightly in all areas. Best part??? Readily available @ $190.
Ok, I just won an auction on eBay and will have a metal base next week to compare to the Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 from Tube World.
George
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I have that cryo'd 5ar4, as well as a metal base GZ34. I can tell you, they are NOT close. The metal base kicks its hiney. The only rectifier I have heard that bests the metal base GZ34, is the Sophia Princess mesh 274b. Unfortunately it is a very quick heating tube, and likes to see a very low value cap ahead of it. I wish like hell we could use it with the MW transporter, as it has virtually the same characteristics as the metal base, but improves upon it slightly in all areas. Best part??? Readily available @ $190.
Ok, I just won an auction on eBay and will have a metal base next week to compare to the Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 from Tube World.
George
Good job George...and kept it under the magic number, too. :wink:
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Just thought I would chime in here first as a new owner of a Modwright Transporter, as I anxiously await it's arrival. Should be here July 1st according to UPS tracking info. (Thanks Dan).
I am a complete tube-newbie so, would you guys mind making a few quick recommendations for tubes to start rolling. Preferably in the lower cost region, though something outstanding for a little more scratch would be appreciated as well. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread through yet, but I certainly will.
Thanks,
-Funk
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Welcome to the Club!!! Well, first the signal tubes must be the 6H30 DR's (DR's now, not any other) are $125 per pair from Parts Connexion, then get an Ebay Tung Sol 5U4G or GB at around $50 max (likely $20-40 for GB). You'd be very happy.
Edit: Try to win these...
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Ex-Tung-Sol-5U4G-Coke-Bottle-Audio-Amp-Rectifier-Tube_W0QQitemZ220249185915QQihZ012QQcategoryZ73369QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Just thought I would chime in here first as a new owner of a Modwright Transporter, as I anxiously await it's arrival. Should be here July 1st according to UPS tracking info. (Thanks Dan).
I am a complete tube-newbie so, would you guys mind making a few quick recommendations for tubes to start rolling. Preferably in the lower cost region, though something outstanding for a little more scratch would be appreciated as well. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread through yet, but I certainly will.
Thanks,
-Funk
Funk, what's up buddy? Glad to finally see you posting here! Here is my recommendation for the newbie tube pack:
Tungsol 5U4G or 5U4GB = $22
Mullard 5AR4 = $150
RCA Cleartop 6CG7'S = $48 for a matched pair
Total you will have under $200 invested and that gives you two different Rectifier Tubes to play with as well as an excellent set of Signal Tubes. You can call Brent Jessie at http://www.audiotubes.com/ and purchase these from him. Knowing what I know now, that is a great place to start.
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Cool-
thanks guys...
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FWIW here are my personal views (and education as a Ceramic Engineer) on cryoing:
I'm not convinced that cryoing a rectifier tube is beneficial in terms of improved sound quality or not - However I'll remain open minded.
Cryoing got raised on another thread recently and my concern is that, even though the metallurgy theory of cryoing to relieve grain boundary stresses is well understood tubes are made from various materials and metals with differing thermal expansion coefficients. As they cool down and heat up the different materials (glass/metal) will expand and contract at different rates, with the potential to weaken the vacuum seal and shorten its life. I had a Tung Sol cryoed signla tube degas in the past, which makes me wary of spending $$$$ on rare tubes that are cryoed. This will not stop me from playing with cheaper cryoed tubes, such as 6N1P's, were the risk is lower. But with rare 5AR4's and 5U4G's, that have also been around for 50 years, I wouldn't risk the potential risks of cryoing them.
Using the cryo process for musical instruments/race car parts/machine tools (all single materials) is a reliable and well understood process, non of the tube mongers understand the materials science of what they are doing.
I would stick with a good Tung Sol 5U4G/GB or 5AR4, and forget cryoing.
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Hi guys as a Mechanical Engineer with only a brief tour of materials science and engineering, along with the requisite level of physics as part of my Mec. Eng. education, I would have to agree that cryo'ing tubes gives me pause for the same reasons.....if only for the sake of reliability. The key factor is the tube's vacuum. Once that is lost, the tube is toast. I agree that it should make the tube sound a lot better. I have heard similar information from others more technically educated than I am in these particular areas, who felt the same.
Just my $0.02. I fully agree that Cryo'ing DOES make everything else I have heard sound better....now please don't send your whole ModWright Transporter in for Cryo however...I can't guarantee or warranty the result ;).
Dan W.
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I received Rob's GZ37 yesterday :drool: I am going to listen to it over the weekend. However, it may take me a bit to truly evaluate it as I have just sold my DNA-500 and in its place comes the Spectron musician III. And also I am about to sell my Dali's and upgrade to the Revel Studio2's :rock:
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Cool-
thanks guys...
uuuh, that neck is too straight, no natural curve. Better see a Chiropractor.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2300;type=avatar)
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Cool-
thanks guys...
uuuh, that neck is too straight, no natural curve. Better see a Chiropractor.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2300;type=avatar)
okay, maybe he can help with the pain I have been having in the roof of my mouth too!
Transporter arrived yesterday!!! 1 day earlier than expected! I haven't had a chance to set it up yet (probably not until the 4th)...
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Cool-
thanks guys...
uuuh, that neck is too straight, no natural curve. Better see a Chiropractor.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2300;type=avatar)
Thought it was jewelry. Kids these days.
okay, maybe he can help with the pain I have been having in the roof of my mouth too!
Transporter arrived yesterday!!! 1 day earlier than expected! I haven't had a chance to set it up yet (probably not until the 4th)...
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Cool-
thanks guys...
uuuh, that neck is too straight, no natural curve. Better see a Chiropractor.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2300;type=avatar)
okay, maybe he can help with the pain I have been having in the roof of my mouth too!
Should help with your wi-fi signal strength, though. :D
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Ok, I just won an auction on eBay and will have a metal base next week to compare to the Kuhl tube Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4 from Tube World.
George
I am currently bidding on one as well (if someone here doesnt outbid me :nono:). I have access to a NOS one but it is pretty pricey. Although the metal base may end up in my 36.5 if I get it? In which case I would use my Mullard fat base in the TP, or the nice GZ37 rpf sent me :wink:
Right now I have pretty much settled on the RCA Cleartop 6CG7's as my staple signal tube. I also have the Mazda/Brimar version but I cant seem to find a tube combo where I prefer that tube to the RCA. I really like the detail and clarity that the 6ZG7 family seems to have.
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:dance: Transporter up and running!!!!!!!!! :rock:
after a few :banghead: I got it streaming my iTunes library! This guy runs pretty warm, is that normal? I know that tubes get hot, but the whole chassis is toasty warm. Not fry an egg hot but definitely warmer than I anticipated...
Happy 4th of July!!!!!
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The tubes are exposed for obvious reasons, namely to reject heat. Okay, so it also looks really cool too! aa
We machine the bottom of the enclosure to allow for added convective cooling and also oversize the holes that the tubes protrude through for the same purpose. One of the reasons that the enclosure feels warm is because we use the external AL chassis as a heatsink for a couple of warm SS components. It is normal for the chassis to feel warm to the touch for this reason.
Thanks and Enjoy!
Dan W.
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Thanks Dan, I appreciate that explanation. And your right, it does look really cool!!! :thumb:
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Guys, I finally got my hifi tuning fuses today. I just installed them so give me a few days to burn them in and I will let you know.
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Pretty sweet GZ37 available...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fat-Bottle-High-Wycombe-CV378-GZ37-Rectifier-Rare-UK_W0QQitemZ220252644699QQihZ012QQcategoryZ73377QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
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Although the metal base may end up in my 36.5 if I get it?
May end up in? :o
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Case,
I have been waiting for someone to try this fantastic tube in a TP! I know Dan used one at the audio show in Germany and seemed to like it. I use one in my ModWright SWL 9.0 as well as in the PS for a ModWright Sony 9100. You have an early version with the welded plates. I have both versions and have not had the time to compared the welded plate to the folded plate version.
Here is a link to the Philips GZ34 versions:
http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20GZ34/GZ34.htm
Enjoy your TP!
Interesting JG2, you having both versions of the metal base GZ34's. Have you already been able to compare both types?
Let me first introduce myself a bit. I live in the country which once produced these particular tubes: Holland. Last week we swapped tubes in a friends Modwright PS for his Modwright preamp (the dual mono one).
Being quite astonished about the effect of the different rectifiers we used, I wanted to check some other persons experiences. While doing this I came across this forum.
We replaced the standard Sylvania's GZ34's supplied by Modwright by Sovtek GZ34's. Sound improved significantly. The Sovteks were then replaced by Mullard 5U4G (big bottle, brown base, late 50's I guess, not the Wycombe). Wow, much better sound now! More musical (instruments sounded much more like the real thing) and more transparant. Then, a few days later, the 5U4G's made place for two Philips Metal Base GZ34's (1957, perforated plates) and... even more wow! The metal base GZ34's sounded much more balanced IMO. Base is much, much tighter and the treble more extended. The 5U4G's mids are extremely smooth, more so than the mids of the metal base, very seductive. However the metal base doesn't sound harsh or grainy when compared to the 5U4G. On the contrary, and the decay of tone is also similar. All in all I feel the mids of the 5U4G are a bit over the top, maybe they are to velvety smooth. Last but not least, soundstage/focusing: I thought the width and depth of stage increased significantly with the GZ34. Further the focusing of the single instruments was more precise with the metal base.
As my preamps rectifier in the separate PS is a GZ34 too (preamp: Silvaweld SWC1000) I lately bought two metal base GZ34's (one for spare). A 1957 version with perforated plates and a 1955 version with the more sturdy/welded non-perforated plates. As my system is under construction I haven't been able yet to hear the difference these tubes make with the National GZ34 that Silvaweld once used. No doubt they will blow away the National. Curious however to the difference between the two metal bases. I read on a Asian website that the first version with welded plates is the best ever made, but maybe you have been able to compare both metal bases already?
Kees
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As my preamps rectifier in the separate PS is a GZ34 too (preamp: Silvaweld SWC1000) I lately bought two metal base GZ34's (one for spare). A 1957 version with perforated plates and a 1955 version with the more sturdy/welded non-perforated plates. As my system is under construction I haven't been able yet to hear the difference these tubes make with the National GZ34 that Silvaweld once used. No doubt they will blow away the National. Curious however to the difference between the two metal bases. I read on a Asian website that the first version with welded plates is the best ever made, but maybe you have been able to compare both metal bases already?
Kees
Kees, I own the 1955 welded version, and it is wonderful, so much so that my rectifier searching days are OVER. I haven't been able to compare it against the later, perforated versions.
Bob
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Kees,
Welcome to the Audio Circle, and especially welcome to the Modwright Transporter Tube Rolling thread. :thumb: Somehow I got named President of this motley crew (just a joke really) so I thought I would extend a hearty welcome.
My GZ34 metal base (In my TP right now; I'd need two of them to put in my dual mono 36.5 but would more likely buy two addtl cuz i like this one too much in my TP) is a welded plate 1952 version, I think (code 52 rsB).?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110256437822&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001
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Kees welcome!! very interesting post. I placed my order today for a NOS Phillips Metal Base 5AR4 from the '50's :thumb: I am very excited for it! I will be placing it in my 36.5 and not in my Transporter.
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:) Thanks for the welcome.
That 1952 tube is very special. Very old! When I first watched this tube on ebay I thought it might be a prototype.
Measuring 75 where good starts at 55, it probably means it still measures 100 percent. These tubes are very strong. Most of them I've seen measure even stronger than 100 percent. They say they will last for 40.000 hours.
At the moment there are two Hong Kong tubes on ebay: one of them being from 1953. That one looks (though pictures are not optimal) and measures okay. The other one lost the guiding pin. The seller could have been more explicit about this IMO. There's also a Mullard stamped Philips. The auction of that tube will end today. It is 510 dollar right now. Extremely high price for Ebay. Also because the pictures show clearly that the tube has seen quite some good use.
Kees
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So, I finalized my NOS Metal Base 5AR4 today :thumb: My wallet is not quite as happy as the rest of me...
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So, I finalized my NOS Metal Base 5AR4 today :thumb: My wallet is not quite as happy as the rest of me...
and worth every penny, as you'll soon discover. :wink:
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and worth every penny, as you'll soon discover. :wink:
Ken, nice to see you over here! :D I figured it was your turn to get me to spend some money this time :wink:
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So, I finalized my NOS Metal Base 5AR4 today :thumb: My wallet is not quite as happy as the rest of me...
I am still waiting for mine to arrive from Europe. :(
Hopefully in the next few days.
George
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and worth every penny, as you'll soon discover. :wink:
Ken, nice to see you over here! :D I figured it was your turn to get me to spend some money this time :wink:
Heh, revenge, in a very small way, though I've not for a moment regretted the LS36.5 purchase. :D
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Heh, revenge, in a very small way, though I've not for a moment regretted the LS36.5 purchase. :D
that is great news!! I am glad you are loving it. This area has been so dominated with Transporter discussions lately that it is great to recognize how amaing the LS 36.5 is :wine:
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Heh, revenge, in a very small way, though I've not for a moment regretted the LS36.5 purchase. :D
This area has been so dominated with Transporter discussions lately that it is great to recognize how amaing the LS 36.5 is :wine:
Probably cuz it's the Transporter Tube rolling thread... :lol: :lol:
.........sorry, couldn't resist...especially after the "bastard" email (inside joke)
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Probably cuz it's the Transporter Tube rolling thread... :lol: :lol:
.........sorry, couldn't resist...especially after the "bastard" email (inside joke)
Fair enough :lol:
Well then, I ordered a second set of DR's today so that I will be able to see what a double dose of them is like. I figure even if I dont love them in both the TP and the 36.5 at the same time, I will have a backup set for my 36.5.
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David, let us know. I think I'm the only one with a double dose so far (penicillin is helping though, thank you), and I LOVE the sound..but this becomes very subjective....once a great tube (and no doubt that DR is confirmed to be a great Modwright tube) is identified for a given application, the less is more theory can come into play. I've only heard the double dose, as you well know, for a night or two before other circumstances caused me to make changes. I hope to have it back in business this weekend.
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My Plan is to put the Metal Base 5AR4 into the 36.5 as soon as it arrives. After that I will then A/B my Mullard fat base 5AR4 and Rob's GZ37. And, after that, I will experiment with the second set of DR's vs the 6CG7's :dunno:
As if that isnt enough to drive me crazy, I have the Spectron amp arriving Friday and hopefully my Dali's will be sold soon so I can bring the Revel Studio2's in. Maybe one day I will be able to just listen and enjoy??? :duh:
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K2.NL,
I am on 'holiday' this week so I didn't get a chance to reply. I have not had the opportunity (read this as 'time and patience')to do an 'A' - 'B' comparison between the GZ34 metal base versions. I can tell you that to my ears, they ALL sound good! I think the first version after the metal base with the brown plastic base is pretty sweet as well. I know everyone chases Mullard's, but I am a real fan of the Philips production double 'D' getter GZ34's! Philips, Miniwatt, Valvo and others brands you are familiar with are quite the rectifier tube made in your homeland!
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K2.NL,
I am on 'holiday' this week so I didn't get a chance to reply. I have not had the opportunity (read this as 'time and patience')to do an 'A' - 'B' comparison between the GZ34 metal base versions. I can tell you that to my ears, they ALL sound good! I think the first version after the metal base with the brown plastic base is pretty sweet as well. I know everyone chases Mullard's, but I am a real fan of the Philips production double 'D' getter GZ34's! Philips, Miniwatt, Valvo and others brands you are familiar with are quite the rectifier tube made in your homeland!
Hi JG2,
I fully agree about your statement regarding Philips versus Mullard. Last week a 1957 metal base GZ34 stamped with the Mullard logo sold for 510 dollar on ebay. A very high price! Because of the Mulard logo? Apart from the fact that this tube seemed to have had some clear use, all these metal base tube were made by Philips in Holland.
Hope you'll soon have a "opportunity" to do a A-B-comparison, but for now I hope you'll have a good holiday!
Kees
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K2.NL,
I am on 'holiday' this week so I didn't get a chance to reply. I have not had the opportunity (read this as 'time and patience')to do an 'A' - 'B' comparison between the GZ34 metal base versions. I can tell you that to my ears, they ALL sound good! I think the first version after the metal base with the brown plastic base is pretty sweet as well. I know everyone chases Mullard's, but I am a real fan of the Philips production double 'D' getter GZ34's! Philips, Miniwatt, Valvo and others brands you are familiar with are quite the rectifier tube made in your homeland!
Hi JG2,
I fully agree about your statement regarding Philips versus Mullard. Last week a 1957 metal base GZ34 stamped with the Mullard logo sold for 510 dollar on ebay. A very high price! Because of the Mulard logo? Apart from the fact that this tube seemed to have had some clear use, all these metal base tube were made by Philips in Holland.
Hope you'll soon have a "opportunity" to do a A-B-comparison, but for now I hope you'll have a good holiday!
Kees
Guess my snag of this 1954 Phillips Miniwatt metal base GZ34 for $179.10 was a bargain by comparison. :thumb:
(http://i8.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/f9/31/ea37_1.JPG)
I will be getting from the Post Office first thing tomorrow morning (I missed the Post Man today and I need to sign for it).
George
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Not A bad buy at all, George!
Very early model with the welded plates and it even has a decent Miniwatt logo that is pretty much intact. I don't care about that but some of the collectors sure do.
Let us know how you like it.
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Those of you that have installed the HiFi tuning fuses, how long of a break-in was needed for them to sound their best?
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Not A bad buy at all, George!
Very early model with the welded plates and it even has a decent Miniwatt logo that is pretty much intact. I don't care about that but some of the collectors sure do.
Let us know how you like it.
Well I picked up the tubes in and even though it has only has been in for an hour or so, it is clearly better in the frequency extremes and has a more detailed and open midrange than the Kuhl tube version of the Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4.
Definitely a good start and appears to be well worth the investment.
George
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Well I picked up the tubes in and even though it has only has been in for an hour or so, it is clearly better in the frequency extremes and has a more detailed and open midrange than the Kuhl tube version of the Mullard 1958 Black Base GZ34/5AR4.
Definitely a good start and appears to be well worth the investment.
This is consistent with my experience, George. When I put the NOS Philips into my LS36.5 I heard a more open soundstage and tighter, bigger bass. I also heard a welcome reduction in very HF glare, which may be limited to my speakers i.e. ML Vantages. Some very tough female choral passages on Stellamara's Seven Valleys cleaned up beautifully. :)
All in all, a big improvement and, for me, well worth the investment.
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Well, I got my NOS metal base today :drool: It is in perfect condition!! I am very excited to try it out. You can see that even the label is in perfect condition.
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll152/dkimmell/DSC01288.jpg)
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DK, very nice. Looks like the only thing NOT in perfect condition is the cameraman. :rotflmao:
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Beautiful tube. Very cool.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the various rectifier combinations, David. Don't keep us waiting too long. :nono: :lol:
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DK, very nice. Looks like the only thing NOT in perfect condition is the cameraman. :rotflmao:
Thanks buddy! For some reason I had a really hard time getting the tube in focus. I tried like 20 different times :duh:
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Your new metal base GZ34 looks great indeed, the label is perfect. Congratulations!!
As the picture seems to indicate that the plates aren't welded and the perforations probably will be visible when the tube is turned 90 degrees, I guess it is a 1957 tube. An early one though (57 followed by an A to a F at maximum) as the thin shiny metal strips on the upper side of the metal plates are still present. Around june 1957 these strips IME dissapear.
So make a fool out of me David and tell me the code is a 1955 :icon_lol:
Kees
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Your new metal base GZ34 looks great indeed, the label is perfect. Congratulations!!
As the picture seems to indicate that the plates aren't welded and the perforations probably will be visible when the tube is turned 90 degrees, I guess it is a 1957 tube. An early one though (57 followed by an A to a F at maximum) as the thin shiny metal strips on the upper side of the metal plates are still present. Around june 1957 these strips IME dissapear.
So make a fool out of me David and tell me the code is a 1955 :icon_lol:
Kees
Yes, the label is perfect. The tube looks way nicer in person than my pictures indicate. It truly looks brand new. Kees, you are very close on your dates as it is right in between :wink: It is a 1956
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The plates David, are they welded or perforated?
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The plates David, are they welded or perforated?
To be honest I did not check and now the piece is already installed into my 36.5. At some point in the near future I will be back inside the 36.5 to replace the fuse with a HiFi tuning fuse and I will check then.
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Is anyone here putting any contact solution on the tubes/tube socket? If so, what are you using??
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Is anyone here putting any contact solution on the tubes/tube socket? If so, what are you using??
I have used Siliclear on my tubes in the past, but haven't yet gone this route with my TP.
I wanted to get a good handle on the Philips metal base GZ34 compared to my other tubes, but after spending the last 3-4 days listening, I don't really need to go back and do an extensive A/B.
We have a new champion!
George
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Yes, it seems the metal base Holland-made GZ34/5AR4 is the winner in all categories of Modwright rectification. We love it here for the TP; and it's use in the 36.5 and in the tube rec'd power supplies of the modded players is also the No.1 fave.
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I think I can speak for Dan here.
Over the years, we have had to replace several tube sockets where a contact cleaner or enhancer was applied to the pins or sockets. Some folks have gotten a bit carried away & really gummed up the 9 pin and octal sockets in their CDP's and power supplies.
Thanks!
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Things have been a little too quite around here the last few days so I will try and stir it up a little :nono:
I have to do a little further listening but I believe I have a new king for the TP; the HW GZ37 :drool: rpf was kind enough to lend me this tube for testing and now he may not be getting it back :wink: If I had to use one word to describe the tube it would be holographic. The ambient details that this tube retrives is amazing as well as its deep and textured bass. My 5AR4 or GZ32 may have a little more life in the upper mid area, but again I will have to listen more to decide. However, I can say my 5AR4 almost sounds a little dark in comparison. Keep in mind this is the Mullard fat base 5AR4 as the metal base is in my 36.5. I am not ready to make a true judgement yet but I thought you guys may be interested anyway :D
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What does HW stand for?
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What does HW stand for?
High Wycombe
This is the tube I am using
http://cgi.ebay.com/-Fat-Bottle-'High-Wycombe-CV378--GZ37-Rectifier-Rare.UK_W0QQitemZ220252644699QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0807021832r8638
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Gotcha, thanks. Have you compared it to the metal base 5ar4 yet in the TP?
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Things have been a little too quite around here the last few days so I will try and stir it up a little :nono:
I have to do a little further listening but I believe I have a new king for the TP; the HW GZ37 :drool: rpf was kind enough to lend me this tube for testing and now he may not be getting it back :wink: If I had to use one word to describe the tube it would be holographic. The ambient details that this tube retrives is amazing as well as its deep and textured bass. My 5AR4 or GZ32 may have a little more life in the upper mid area, but again I will have to listen more to decide. However, I can say my 5AR4 almost sounds a little dark in comparison. Keep in mind this is the Mullard fat base 5AR4 as the metal base is in my 36.5. I am not ready to make a true judgement yet but I thought you guys may be interested anyway :D
Let us know your thoughts when you compare the HW GZ37 to the metal base GZ34.
In my TP, I think the metal base GZ34 is the clear winner.
George
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Just curious, does anyone use headphones in their evaluations of various tube combos in the MW TP?
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I have to do a little further listening but I believe I have a new king for the TP; the HW GZ37 :drool: rpf was kind enough to lend me this tube for testing and now he may not be getting it back :wink: If I had to use one word to describe the tube it would be holographic. The ambient details that this tube retrives is amazing as well as its deep and textured bass. My 5AR4 or GZ32 may have a little more life in the upper mid area, but again I will have to listen more to decide. However, I can say my 5AR4 almost sounds a little dark in comparison. Keep in mind this is the Mullard fat base 5AR4 as the metal base is in my 36.5. I am not ready to make a true judgement yet but I thought you guys may be interested anyway :D
:lol: Glad you like it David. Your impressions mirror mine precisely (using the tube in my Modwright tube rectified Sony 9100). 8)
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That's cool, Rob :thumb:
I should also note that I find the RCA Cleartop 6CG7's a much better match than the 6H30 DR's in my system. It could be because I already have a set of the DR's in my 36.5? but I find the 6CG7's to have a more clear and detailed top end; they do not have quite the bass impact of the DR's but they DR's almost seem a little veiled and sluggish at the top end. Of course my impressions my change tomorrow :wink: and YMMV
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Hi David,
It would be interesting to see what you think of the Philips metal base GZ34in your TP with the RCA clear tops. I'm sure it is performing very well in your 36.5! The fat base Mullard is a very good rectifier, but comparing the Philips metal base GZ34 to the HW GZ37 in the TP would be of interest to many on this forum.
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Let us know your thoughts when you compare the HW GZ37 to the metal base GZ34.
In my TP, I think the metal base GZ34 is the clear winner.
George
George, have you heard the HW GZ37? Your thoughts, if so?
David, I too found the GZ34/5AR4 (an Amperex Bugle Boy, double D getter) to be dark sounding in comparison with the HW GZ37.
Like your finding that two sets of 6H30DRs didn't work for you, I also found two of the HW GZ37s (used in both the 9100 and the 36.5) to be too laid back. The best combination for me is the HW in the source with a black base GZ32 in the line-stage. It seems a mix of tube types works better than all of the same ones in multiple pieces of gear.
Rob
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Hi David,
It would be interesting to see what you think of the Philips metal base GZ34in your TP with the RCA clear tops. I'm sure it is performing very well in your 36.5! The fat base Mullard is a very good rectifier, but comparing the Philips metal base GZ34 to the HW GZ37 in the TP would be of interest to many on this forum.
I will likely do this because as you point out this comparison will hold interest for others. My only issue is that my 36.5 is inside a rack so it involves me unplugging all the cables, pulling it out, etc. to change the tubes in it. I also want to do it to find out who exactly the metal base GZ34 compares to my Mullard fat base. too many great tube too little time 8)
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David, I too found the GZ34/5AR4 (an Amperex Bugle Boy, double D getter) to be dark sounding in comparison with the HW GZ37.
Like your finding that two sets of 6H30DRs didn't work for you, I also found two of the HW GZ37s (used in both the 9100 and the 36.5) to be too laid back. The best combination for me is the HW in the source with a black base GZ32 in the line-stage. It seems a mix of tube types works better than all of the same ones in multiple pieces of gear.
Rob
Rob, let me just say again how much I appreciate your generosity in lending me your GZ37. That dark sound is certainly interesting. It is something I never noticed until placing the GZ37 in, but once you hear it there is no going back :wink:
For me the two sets of the DR's I think was just too much of the same thing, if that makes sense? I think finding the right compliment of all various tubes to produce the most cohesive sound is paramount. Each tube family has a different set of strengths and weaknesses (so to speak) and I have found it is all about placing the different families together to gain the most complete sound.
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Rob, let me just say again how much I appreciate your generosity in lending me your GZ37. That dark sound is certainly interesting. It is something I never noticed until placing the GZ37 in, but once you hear it there is no going back :wink:
For me the two sets of the DR's I think was just too much of the same thing, if that makes sense? I think finding the right compliment of all various tubes to produce the most cohesive sound is paramount. Each tube family has a different set of strengths and weaknesses (so to speak) and I have found it is all about placing the different families together to gain the most complete sound.
You're welcome. It was my pleasure. This hobby is much more fun when shared.
Yes, it does make sense and I agree.
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I, for one, have compared my Mullard fat black base to my Philips/Valvo (welded) metal base in the TP. I like the metal base quite a bit more. It loses nothing of the fat base's nice midrange, but extends bass and treble. It also is slightly more holographic, although the fat base is no slouch. I'd love to try the HW sometime. :wink:
Last night, after chatting with David earlier, I pulled my DR's from the TP and replaced them with my second fave, the Raytheon early 50's black plate 6CG7's. I gave them a good 2 hrs to play in, and then had a Beck craving (we discussed Modern Guilt and I was listening to it on Rhapsody before ordering it). I threw on Mutations, a real sweet and sour gem of lower midrange/upper bass guitar resonances geniuously mixed with some classic Beck upper frequency electronics, etc. I love the album, and the Raytheon+DR signal tube combo (DR's are staying in the 36.5) was VERY nice. I will need to listen more tonight, then slip the DR's back in for awhile before I agree with the "too much of a good thing" pronouncement, but the combo last night was sweeeet! Rydenfan and I have very similar signal paths, but our speakers are quite different. I can easily see that a speaker who has a midbass or lower midrange hump (typical of a "warm" speaker) could be bloated to death on double doses of DR's.
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Hi everyone,
I have my Mod TP, and ready to set it up. This is my first piece of Tube equipment, and all of these posts are a bit much at first. Is there a generally agreed-to better set of tubes than what is provided, or are all of these posts primarily personal taste? If there is something that would safely make an improvement over the stock tubes, what are they and what's the best way to acquire them? I've also seen posts about tubes from decades ago, with congratulations by others that pictures show that they are o.k. Is the process of getting alternate tubes risky? Any insight into how to learn and go about this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks much in advance!
jwes
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Hi everyone,
I have my Mod TP, and ready to set it up. This is my first piece of Tube equipment, and all of these posts are a bit much at first. Is there a generally agreed-to better set of tubes than what is provided, or are all of these posts primarily personal taste? If there is something that would safely make an improvement over the stock tubes, what are they and what's the best way to acquire them? I've also seen posts about tubes from decades ago, with congratulations by others that pictures show that they are o.k. Is the process of getting alternate tubes risky? Any insight into how to learn and go about this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks much in advance!
jwes
Welcome! I hope you very much enjoy you new piece, I am sure you will. If you read through this thread you will gather wonderful advice and knowledge on various tubes. Within the last few pages Both Ted and I each recommended a few tube combinations for a newbie tube starter pack. Spending a few hundred dollars with yield you some very nice results. If you could list the rest of your system that would also be a help as to what you may enjoy? *disclaimer* tube rolling can become extremely addictive in a hurry :wink:
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Welcome to the Club!!! :thumb:
Tube rolling is not as complicated as it sounds. It's a lot like using a recipe; there are basic ingredients (signal tubes, rectifier tube) but everyone has his/her own tastes as to what brand and combination of flavors make them happy. If your system happens to start out sounding a certain way, say warm and fairly bass heavy, then you'll want to flavor the Transporter with tubes that tend to be complimentary, not additive.
The good ingredients (tubes) were all made back in the 50's and early 60's, and typically in Holland, the UK and the USA (huge generalization, but you have to start somewhere). Any of us who roll tubes in the Modwright products are looking for those tubes, not modern Russian and Chinese ones. The 50's and 60's tubes come in two flavors, either NOS (new old stock, meaning they've not been used, just sitting on a shelf for 40+ years) or used. NOS cost more, but used tubes are fine as long as they've been tested to have a good vacuum left in them (i.e tested good to very good). As far as rectifier tubes (the larger ones used in power supplies) we love the GZ32, GZ34/5AR4, 5U4G, 5U4GB and GZ37 mainly. you can find used versions of all these online and on Ebay. Try them out, trade with some of us, etc. As far as the smaller signal tubes, none of us really like the modern Russian Sovtek 6H30's that come with the player. We replace them with various 6CG7's (RCA clear tops and Raytheon black plates to name two) and others (see posts).
There are no stupid questions...........just stupid people asking questions (just kidding) :lol:.
Have fun.
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{quote}'As far as the smaller signal tubes, none of us really like the modern Russian Sovtek 6H30's that come with the player.'
Your TP likely came with a pair of Sovtek 6N1P, not 6H30. These are actually a pretty good tube that are sent stock with the TP. Give these a try and feel free to explore from there! This forum is a wealth of information regarding various tubes and combinations. Some opinions have been almost universal and are, in most cases, 'no brainers'. Every one's ears, tastes and audio system's are different and YMMV.
Have fun!
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{quote}'As far as the smaller signal tubes, none of us really like the modern Russian Sovtek 6H30's that come with the player.'
Your TP likely came with a pair of Sovtek 6N1P, not 6H30. These are actually a pretty good tube that are sent stock with the TP. Give these a try and feel free to explore from there! This forum is a wealth of information regarding various tubes and combinations. Some opinions have been almost universal and are, in most cases, 'no brainers'. Every one's ears, tastes and audio system's are different and YMMV.
Have fun!
I consider this good advice - the 6N1P's are very good output tubes to start with in the TP.
Following on from Ted's response I would start by rolling the rectifier tube first of all - the GZ families are becoming expensive, consequently I would go for the 5U4G or 5U4GB. 5U4 prices are creeping up but they are still less expensive than GZ's and not a mile off in terms of sonic performance.
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Wow - you guys are awesome, thanks for such quick and thorough advice. Will stay in touch on what i try!
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{quote}'As far as the smaller signal tubes, none of us really like the modern Russian Sovtek 6H30's that come with the player.'
Your TP likely came with a pair of Sovtek 6N1P, not 6H30. These are actually a pretty good tube that are sent stock with the TP. Give these a try and feel free to explore from there! This forum is a wealth of information regarding various tubes and combinations. Some opinions have been almost universal and are, in most cases, 'no brainers'. Every one's ears, tastes and audio system's are different and YMMV.
Have fun!
OOPS, thank John, sorry 'bout that. I confused the pre with the TP...so many tubes, so little time! :)
yes, the 6N1P's are actually very nice tubes. Phil has it right; start with the rectifier. And then, go to places like MDB Ventures (estate sales) that have inexpensive 6CG7's abounding, to compare to the 6N1P's. Find some black plates, even used.
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As I had posted earlier, David (Rydenfan) pointed out that his second set of 6H30 DR's, lovely in the 36.5 (in fact almost mandatory), were a bit too much in his TP. He had lost some top end air, etc. Since it was my idea to 'double down" (I've been running two sets for awhile, but with all the movement in my system over the past month it's been tough to really eval) I thought I'd follow suit. I swapped them out for my fave 6CG7's, the wonderful and cheap Raytheon US black plates. After settling in, the Raytheons sounded great. Hmm.....maybe David was right (hard for me to admit publicly.... :lol:...just kidding..we help each other all the time!).
After two nights of glorious sounds, wonderful textures, clear tight bass and harmonics, air and shimmer without the sizzle....I decided to go back and try the double dose again. I stuck the DR's in this morning and ran them with music for about 10 hours before sitting down tonight. It didn't take long to tell that the damp somewhat boated lower midrange, although full of energy and organics, was just too much of a good thing. The DR's in the 36.5, or as a set in the TP with an ss preamp possibly, are tremendous energy sources, with the most musical midrange I've yet to hear. So this is not a slight on them. It's just a warning, begun by David, and echoed by me.....too much is too much. Now the midrange is almost perfect, and there is a beautiful balance across the spectrum. Harmonics can play against each other, air can energize, bass notes can decay naturally. The nice synergy created by my Raytheon 6CG7's, Valvo welded metal base 5AR4/GZ34 and DR-based dual mono 36.5 pre is here to stay (yeah right....ok, is my new current fave...how's that)!
Thanks again to David (Rydenfan) for his heads up. It's funny; we've yet to meet personally, but have synched up beautifully via phone, email and forums to SIGNFICANTLY move each others system synergy forward by leaps and bounds. Modwright, Spectron, McCormack, Synergistic Research, tubes, cables, amps, preamps, power cords, you name it. It's great when it works like this. Now, bring on the High Wycombe and I'll let you know what I think of the Powercell........ah, so many upgrades, so little time. :thumb:
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I plan to bid on the pair of GZ34's ending on ebay tomorrow night. Anybody want to go halvsies with me on that? I only really need one. I can do the bidding.
PM me if interested.
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After settling in, the Raytheons sounded great. Hmm.....maybe David was right (hard for me to admit publicly.... :lol:...just kidding..we help each other all the time!).
I know how difficult that must be for you to say aloud :lol:
Thanks again to David (Rydenfan) for his heads up. It's funny; we've yet to meet personally, but have synched up beautifully via phone, email and forums to SIGNFICANTLY move each others system synergy forward by leaps and bounds. Modwright, Spectron, McCormack, Synergistic Research, tubes, cables, amps, preamps, power cords, you name it. It's great when it works like this. Now, bring on the High Wycombe and I'll let you know what I think of the Powercell........ah, so many upgrades, so little time. :thumb:
I could not agree more, Ted. It is amazing how technology such as the internet or even stereos for that matter can bring various people together from different walks of life. I hope to be able to tear myself away from work this year to make it RMAF, if I do dinner is on me :thumb: But then again I am not sure I want to hear SP Techs based on all ov our other similar tastes :wink:
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But then again I am not sure I want to hear SP Techs based on all of our other similar tastes :wink:
Oh, you will (Said in the Yoda voice, warning Luke) :)
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Jerrym303,
THAT is how you bid (& WIN) metal base GZ34's on E-Bay!
5 seconds until the close of the auction and you place a nice bid and let the chips fall where they may.
Very well done!!! Nice snag of your other metal base last month as well.............good value on that one in this somewhat overheated market.
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Thanks JG2. I will probably be selling one of the new ones. I did want to have a back-up. Not sure I need three since the gZ34's are supposed to last forever.
On another topic, just tried out the RCA cleartops. On first listen, they really opened up the sound of my system. Thanks again for the info here!
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Has anyone tried a Svetlana 5TS3S (5U4) rectifier?
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Well, somebody around here may need to commit me to the loony bin soon :shake: I have been totally crazed with listening to tubes over the last few nights. I decided to remove the metal base GZ34 from my 36.5 and replace it with my fat base version so that I could evaluate the metal base versus the HW GZ37 in the TP. A few people here had expressed interest in this.
The first thing that is very surprising, and somewhat puzzling to me, is that in my 36.5 I prefer my Mullard Fat Base GZ34 to the NOS Metal Base version I recently got :? For some reason with the metal base I am experiencing a loss in the high frequencies of vocals in comparison to the fat base. I am not exactly sure why this would be? but I guess there is never a set rule of what will work best??
So, as for the metal base GZ34/5AR4 versus the HW GZ37... This is where I am convinced I am going to lose my mind. The 5AR4 has a bit more of a robust sound to it. It is slightly more holographic and warm/rich. The GZ37 is a little more refined and detailed. The GZ34 will be ever so slightly congested on larger passages compared to the GZ37. I would say the GZ34 has a bit more of an initially alluring sound but over time seems to give me a bit of listening fatigue. You cannot even begin to imagine the amount of agonizing and scrutinizing that has taken place over the last few days :o It is near impossible to pick a favorite here as they each do different things incredibly well and each have a different, yet equally addictive sound quality. Since my Dali's have a bit of a warm and live sound to them for the moment I am choosing to go with the GZ37, but that could easily change tomorrow :dunno: Tough call between these two wonderful tubes...
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David,
Thanks for your rectifier tube evaluations. It does get a bit overwhelming when you have several combinations that sound really good with subtle differences between the top contenders.
The nice men in the white coats will be there soon.........................
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David,
Thanks for the comparisons.
I empathize with the difficulties you've had: I've also been driven nearly crazy trying to isolate the differences between some of these rectifiers. They're more easily heard than described. Now that you've done the hard work, sit back and just enjoy them for a while. After say a week, you can go back and re-compare them and the differences should be more obvious.
But you have one more test to perform if you're up for it. :wink: Try the HW GZ37 in the Transporter and the black base GZ32 in the 36.5. I'd really like to know what you think of that combination. :thumb:
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Hi David,
I wonder if you have helped me, given I have Dali's as well... I have a model called the Euphonia MS4, which I think is very similar to the Helicon 400. They look very much the same in pictures anyway, and both are smaller than their MS5, Helicon 800 counterparts.
by the way, as a tube newbie, and based on the feedback above, I'm going to go ahead and assume that the signal tubes standard with my TP are less of an opportunity to upgrade than the rectifier. So what is a fair expectation in price for a reliable gz34 metal base, or 37?
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I've been following this thread closely, as I've started tube-rolling 5AR4's with my SWL 9.0 Signature. I'm amazed by the degree of tonal differences between all these 5AR4's. After my stock Sovtek blew, Dan sent me a Ruby 5AR4, which is a lot brighter/detailed vs. the old Sovtek (as well as a NOS Mullard which I've tried). At the suggestion of a local tube guru, I've also started playing with tube dampers... adding yet another permutation to this audio equation! I'm not willing to spend mega$$ bidding for metal base tubes, but I just ordered a TAD 5AR4 to throw into the fray. Hopefully will have some time next week to sit down for some extended comparisons, both with, and without the dampers. Any other SWL 9.0 Sig owners bitten by this tube-rolling bug?
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jwes,
I don't have an GZ37 "High Wycome" rectifiers but they seem to be selling in the $250 +/- range. Philips production metal base GZ34 can range anywhere between a low of $150 for a used / tested tube on E-Bay to $650 for true NOS from Tube World. Most are going for $200+ on E-Bay lately but if you are patient and keep your eye on the various European E-Bay sites, you should snag one for less than what most are selling for in the US.
Good luck!
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Sleepysurf,
I just ordered a pair of TAD 5AR4's too ( fro trial in my 36.5)! Just wanted to hear what these modern marvels might sound like...all of $40/pair. They arrive next Tues.
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David,
Thanks for the comparisons.
I empathize with the difficulties you've had: I've also been driven nearly crazy trying to isolate the differences between some of these rectifiers. They're more easily heard than described. Now that you've done the hard work, sit back and just enjoy them for a while. After say a week, you can go back and re-compare them and the differences should be more obvious.
But you have one more test to perform if you're up for it. :wink: Try the HW GZ37 in the Transporter and the black base GZ32 in the 36.5. I'd really like to know what you think of that combination. :thumb:
Thanks Rob. I agree I need to kick back and gain a little more perspective. The biggest issue is that one is not really better than the other, just different...
I dont have a black base GZ32 :cry: I have a brown base CV593 (military version). Believe me, when I was constant evaluating I was fully thinking about exactly why you run the GZ32 in the 36.5. It would seem like the perfect combination. However, the one thing I am thinking about trying now (somebody please stop me :wink: ) is swapping out my rca clear top 6CG7's for the Mazda/Brimar version. Before I had difficulty integrating them into my system but the touch of midrange warmth they seemed to provide could be an excellent combination with the GZ37??
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Okay, I guess I'll just have to send you one. :lol:
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Thanks for the offer, Rob :wink: I do think that the Mazda/Brimar 6CG7's may be a nice fit? I will likely try those the beginning of next week.
It is still very odd to me that I prefer the sound of the mullard fat base 5AR4 in the 36.5 with the metal base 5AR4 in the TP, to the metal base 5AR4 in the 36.5 and the mullard fat base 5AR4 in the TP. My thinking is that it sound sound identical. Hopefully John or someone else that has a better understanding will be able to explain it to me? :?
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Hi David,
I'm afraid I can't shed any light on why you prefer the Mullard 'fat base' in the 36.5 and the Philips GZ34 in the TP. The only explanation is system synergy and personal preference. You have done exhaustive tube rolling and can be credited, at least in part, to getting us excited about the NOS 6H30-DR tubes for the 36.5!
These 2 (or 3 including the GZ37 HW) rectifiers are perhaps the best versions of 5AR4 / GZ34 ever produced and most folks would be very pleased with any of these rectifiers. Tubes are a blast to find, buy and try and you have jumped in with both feet.
Enjoy your TP and 36.5 with whatever combo sounds good to YOU!
Thanks
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Phil,
Be patient and you will find a tested metal base GZ34. Dan snagged his GZ34 recently as a 'Buy it Now' for less than $150 and I have found 7 for under $200. Search E-Bay Germany for the Valvo (Philips production) or E-Bay Netherlands. The Philips, Mullard, Miniwatt and Valvo branded GZ34 are are Philips production and the same tube. As these were made in Holland, you can find some pretty sweet deals if you search these sites.
Good luck!
John,
I've had my metal base GZ34 in now for about 6 weeks and compared it with a NOS Bugle Boy 5AR4, the Bugle Boy being my favorite up to this point. I wanted to take time over the comparison and not jump to any immediate conclusions, but on this occasion the difference was significant from day 1. It's possible for me to hear that they both have a similar sound signature, but the metal base is significantly superior - it's smoother, more relaxed, more dimensional and overall more enjoyable to listen to. My system is now the best I've heard it, combined with the 6H30DR's my TP is now such a phenomenal source that even internet radio has become listenable and not just background music. So thanks for the heads up on this.
Now I've got a bunch of rectifier tubes surplus to requirements - maybe I should get a 36.5 to stick them in? We can't leave David and Ted with all the multiple tube rolling fun!
Phil
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So, as for the metal base GZ34/5AR4 versus the HW GZ37... This is where I am convinced I am going to lose my mind. The 5AR4 has a bit more of a robust sound to it. It is slightly more holographic and warm/rich. The GZ37 is a little more refined and detailed. The GZ34 will be ever so slightly congested on larger passages compared to the GZ37. I would say the GZ34 has a bit more of an initially alluring sound but over time seems to give me a bit of listening fatigue. You cannot even begin to imagine the amount of agonizing and scrutinizing that has taken place over the last few days :o It is near impossible to pick a favorite here as they each do different things incredibly well and each have a different, yet equally addictive sound quality. Since my Dali's have a bit of a warm and live sound to them for the moment I am choosing to go with the GZ37, but that could easily change tomorrow :dunno: Tough call between these two wonderful tubes...
I find the same differences in comparing my Amperex Bugle Boy 5AR4/GZ34 to the HW GZ37 except that in this case the HW is more holographic than the Bugle Boy.
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John,
I've had my metal base GZ34 in now for about 6 weeks and compared it with a NOS Bugle Boy 5AR4, the Bugle Boy being my favorite up to this point. I wanted to take time over the comparison and not jump to any immediate conclusions, but on this occasion the difference was significant from day 1. It's possible for me to hear that they both have a similar sound signature, but the metal base is significantly superior - it's smoother, more relaxed, more dimensional and overall more enjoyable to listen to. My system is now the best I've heard it, combined with the 6H30DR's my TP is now such a phenomenal source that even internet radio has become listenable and not just background music. So thanks for the heads up on this.
Now I've got a bunch of rectifier tubes surplus to requirements - maybe I should get a 36.5 to stick them in? We can't leave David and Ted with all the multiple tube rolling fun!
Phil
Philly, I'm running precisely the same setup in the TP as you are. Sounds damn good, doesn't it?
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Had an interesting epiphany today. I finished installing my room acoustic treatments this afternoon (corner bass trap, plus four 2" fiberglass acoustic panels). I also "tweaked" my Summits forward tilt so the stat panel is fully upright (not tilted back as per the default). The combination of all this yielded a much deeper soundstage, with better imaging and tighter bass, but the midrange and treble (with the Ruby 5AR4) was now too detailed and bright... very fatiguing. I added a second tube damper ring, with little improvement. I then rolled back to my Mullard 5AR4 (which had previously sounded a bit "mushy" in my setup), and voila, SONIC NIRVANA! Bass is now extremely detailed, and the midrange and highs are glorious. Nothing else in my system has changed, so this experiment reaffirms the critical role of room acoustics and speaker positioning in the overall scheme of things. Don't forget those variables when tube rolling!
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John,
I've had my metal base GZ34 in now for about 6 weeks and compared it with a NOS Bugle Boy 5AR4, the Bugle Boy being my favorite up to this point. I wanted to take time over the comparison and not jump to any immediate conclusions, but on this occasion the difference was significant from day 1. It's possible for me to hear that they both have a similar sound signature, but the metal base is significantly superior - it's smoother, more relaxed, more dimensional and overall more enjoyable to listen to. My system is now the best I've heard it, combined with the 6H30DR's my TP is now such a phenomenal source that even internet radio has become listenable and not just background music. So thanks for the heads up on this.
Now I've got a bunch of rectifier tubes surplus to requirements - maybe I should get a 36.5 to stick them in? We can't leave David and Ted with all the multiple tube rolling fun!
Phil
Philly, I'm running precisely the same setup in the TP as you are. Sounds damn good, doesn't it?
Yes, the combination in the TP is really something special, I've never heard music sound so good.
All the reviewers that have given good reviews on the TP with the 'OEM' tubes that Dan supplies would be completely blown away by this combination.
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John,
I've had my metal base GZ34 in now for about 6 weeks and compared it with a NOS Bugle Boy 5AR4, the Bugle Boy being my favorite up to this point. I wanted to take time over the comparison and not jump to any immediate conclusions, but on this occasion the difference was significant from day 1. It's possible for me to hear that they both have a similar sound signature, but the metal base is significantly superior - it's smoother, more relaxed, more dimensional and overall more enjoyable to listen to. My system is now the best I've heard it, combined with the 6H30DR's my TP is now such a phenomenal source that even internet radio has become listenable and not just background music. So thanks for the heads up on this.
Now I've got a bunch of rectifier tubes surplus to requirements - maybe I should get a 36.5 to stick them in? We can't leave David and Ted with all the multiple tube rolling fun!
Phil
Philly, I'm running precisely the same setup in the TP as you are. Sounds damn good, doesn't it?
Yes, the combination in the TP is really something special, I've never heard music sound so good.
All the reviewers that have given good reviews on the TP with the 'OEM' tubes that Dan supplies would be completely blown away by this combination.
Phil/cAsE,
My same winning combo, too, with my Bent TAP pre (when 36.5 was at shop).
However, with my 36.5 the dual DR's were too much (thanks David), and so the Raytheon 6Cg7 black plates have taken the DR's spot in the TP. That metal base is da bomb, though. David is sending me Rob's GZ37 HW to try, but I think the metal base is there to stay. We'll see. 8)
On a related subject (Modwright and tubes) I've reinstalled my prized Modwright Denon 3910 Platinum Sig universal (for hirez 2 channel only use right now). Tube rolling in that is a pain due to the nine screws in the cover, but my Amperex PQ (USA) 1984 orange lettered 7119's sound so good in it I may not try the Tung Sol 5687 or GE Jan 7044's I have. I thought Patricia Barber's Companion sounded great in redbook/TP. Wow, the SACD on the 3910 is incredible. The rig is warmer right out of the gate, but it's ok; I like the diversity. And I haven't even gotten the PS tube -rectified yet (sending to Dan late August for the PS upgrade and some tweaks)!
Hail all Modwright!
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Ted, what rectifier tube are you using in the 36.5 along with the DR's? I see in a previous post you were trying a pair of the TAD 5AR4's - if these work out it's going to save me a boat load of $$$$ when I take the plunge with the 36.5!
Phil
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Phil, Ted uses dual Tung Sol 5U4GB's because he has the dual mono power supply for the 36.5. I use a Mullard 5AR4 in the single box 36.5
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However, with my 36.5 the dual DR's were too much (thanks David), and so the Raytheon 6Cg7 black plates have taken the DR's spot in the TP. That metal base is da bomb, though. David is sending me Rob's GZ37 HW to try, but I think the metal base is there to stay. We'll see. 8)
Actually, I just sent Rob a PM so I will be sending you my HW GZ37 :thumb: I am also going to send you the Mazda/Brimar 6CG7's because they are a pretty different tube for a 6CG7 (more lively and a bit more musical) and I will be curious to see your impressions of them. I figure once you get used to the GZ37 you could try the signal tubes with the, why not right?? :wink: Everything is packed up and will be going out to you tomorrow.
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OK all, you have sold this tube newbie... I have on their way a NOS Mullard Fat black base, and a pair of NOS 6H30 DR's... Won't be quite the same as the metal base, but prices for that tube seem insane to me (over $600?). Hopefully this combo approximates reasonably closely your experiences and I'm really psyched! :drool:
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OK all, you have sold this tube newbie... I have on their way a NOS Mullard Fat black base, and a pair of NOS 6H30 DR's... Won't be quite the same as the metal base, but prices for that tube seem insane to me (over $600?). Hopefully this combo approximates reasonably closely your experiences and I'm really psyched! :drool:
Hopefully you go the DR's from Parts Connexion? You'll love 'em.
Phil,
The TAD's are due here any day. Currently, yes, I use T-S GB's.
David,
Thanks. Congrats on the HW. I'll listen to the Mazdas but the Raytheons are so much better than my dozen or so other 6CG7's. Once again...we'll see. :wink:
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OK all, you have sold this tube newbie... I have on their way a NOS Mullard Fat black base, and a pair of NOS 6H30 DR's... Won't be quite the same as the metal base, but prices for that tube seem insane to me (over $600?). Hopefully this combo approximates reasonably closely your experiences and I'm really psyched! :drool:
Hopefully you go the DR's from Parts Connexion? You'll love 'em.
I did indeed! :thumb:
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Ted,
Is there a source for the Raytheons?
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David,
Thanks. Congrats on the HW. I'll listen to the Mazdas but the Raytheons are so much better than my dozen or so other 6CG7's. Once again...we'll see. :wink:
The Mazda's are more just for the fun of it since I am sending you tubes anyway. They sound quite different than the other 6CG7's I have had so I just figured I would send them along. You will have them and the HW GZ37 on Thursday :thumb:
On a side note, since I am going with the GZ37 I do not anticipate keep the NOS metal base GZ34 I have. I have a 30 day trial on it from where I bought it and can easily send it back. However, I thought someone here may be interested in acquiring it from me rather than me returning it? If anyone wants it just shoot me a PM...
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Ted,
Is there a source for the Raytheons?
I got mine for a song, from MDB Ventures. Make sure to ask for the "good ones" (i.e black plates that tested well). Their lists change almost daily.
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Just got my TAD 5AR4 yesterday (from Antique Electronic Supply), and upon first listening, it falls between the Mullard and Ruby in overall tone. The bass is very detailed, perhaps (slighly) surpassing the Mullard, but the Mullard has a warmer midrange, and smoother top end. The TAD bests the Ruby across the spectrum. I'll do more extended listening this weekend, and see how the TAD sounds with a ring damper (or two).
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...Modwright Denon 3910 Platinum Sig universal (for hirez 2 channel only use right now). Tube rolling in that is a pain due to the nine screws in the cover...
I'm curious, how many screws to remove the cover on the 36.5? The SWL 9.0 has TEN screws, so I've left the cover off until I decide on my final tube mix. Sure wish Dan (or somebody else) offered an after-market cover upgrade for the SWL to facilitate tube-rolling!!
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...Modwright Denon 3910 Platinum Sig universal (for hirez 2 channel only use right now). Tube rolling in that is a pain due to the nine screws in the cover...
I'm curious, how many screws to remove the cover on the 36.5? The SWL 9.0 has TEN screws, so I've left the cover off until I decide on my final tube mix. Sure wish Dan (or somebody else) offered an after-market cover upgrade for the SWL to facilitate tube-rolling!!
The 36.5 is 4 very simple screws. It takes almost no time at all to remove the cover and replace it. I have a feeling Dan could have a top machined for you that would allow access to the rectifier it that is something you truly wanted.
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...Modwright Denon 3910 Platinum Sig universal (for hirez 2 channel only use right now). Tube rolling in that is a pain due to the nine screws in the cover...
I'm curious, how many screws to remove the cover on the 36.5? The SWL 9.0 has TEN screws, so I've left the cover off until I decide on my final tube mix. Sure wish Dan (or somebody else) offered an after-market cover upgrade for the SWL to facilitate tube-rolling!!
The 36.5 is 4 very simple screws. It takes almost no time at all to remove the cover and replace it. I have a feeling Dan could have a top machined for you that would allow access to the rectifier it that is something you truly wanted.
yeah, it's just a top hatch kind of thing. Very simple. They're allens but you could even replace with thumbscrews.
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright2/hero_open1.jpg)
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My NOS metal base GZ34 has been sold guys. I hope the guy that bought it joins us at AC as he has quite a nice system :drool:
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Well tonight I spent quite a bit of time listening to the High Wycombe GZ37 that David loaned me. It replaced, for the time being, my metal base GZ34/5AR4. I like the sound; it is nice and refined and wonderfully detailed. But I get all of that (less a slight bit of refinement) with my metal base, and the Volvo gets me more dynamics and balls. I'm lucky to be able to tube roll all these great tubes, but at the end of the day I am going back to my trusty metal base. The sound I heard last night, before swapping and letting the HW settle in for 24 hrs, was the best my system ever sounded. I'm also demoing a Synergistic Research Powercell 10 power conditioner, and that stayed in tonight, of course. (It doesn't make any sense to call a power conditioner "musical" but that's what the Powercell does. It creates a holistic presentation where every note decays naturally, every harmonic hangs just a little longer, and every space between notes and instruments is just a little more defined and yet natural. It's like each cable and cord got an upgrade.)
I now have the el cheapo TAD 5AR4's in the 36.5 (replacing the Tung Sol 5U4GB's) and will elt them settle for 24 hrs before listening tmrw night. On first listen, though, they have promise. there doesn't seem to be any real downside so far. They are a new tube set so not sure of the break-in.
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On a related subject (Modwright and tubes) I've reinstalled my prized Modwright Denon 3910 Platinum Sig universal (for hirez 2 channel only use right now). Tube rolling in that is a pain due to the nine screws in the cover, but my Amperex PQ (USA) 1984 orange lettered 7119's sound so good in it I may not try the Tung Sol 5687 or GE Jan 7044's I have. I thought Patricia Barber's Companion sounded great in redbook/TP. Wow, the SACD on the 3910 is incredible. The rig is warmer right out of the gate, but it's ok; I like the diversity. And I haven't even gotten the PS tube -rectified yet (sending to Dan late August for the PS upgrade and some tweaks)!
Ted, have you tried the Bendix 6900's in your 3910?
Ken
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On a related subject (Modwright and tubes) I've reinstalled my prized Modwright Denon 3910 Platinum Sig universal (for hirez 2 channel only use right now). Tube rolling in that is a pain due to the nine screws in the cover, but my Amperex PQ (USA) 1984 orange lettered 7119's sound so good in it I may not try the Tung Sol 5687 or GE Jan 7044's I have. I thought Patricia Barber's Companion sounded great in redbook/TP. Wow, the SACD on the 3910 is incredible. The rig is warmer right out of the gate, but it's ok; I like the diversity. And I haven't even gotten the PS tube -rectified yet (sending to Dan late August for the PS upgrade and some tweaks)!
Ted, have you tried the Bendix 6900's in your 3910?
Ken
Ken,
No, I haven't. Although Wayne Donnelly was ga-ga over them, many I've spoken to say they are not nearly worth their huge $$. What say you?
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Ken,
No, I haven't. Although Wayne Donnelly was ga-ga over them, many I've spoken to say they are not nearly worth their huge $$. What say you?
Unknown. The only guy currently selling them wants $450 each :o. I'll pay that if I have to, but I have a lead on someone who has a bunch and may sell them cheaper, so I'm working that angle first.
Ken
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Ken,
No, I haven't. Although Wayne Donnelly was ga-ga over them, many I've spoken to say they are not nearly worth their huge $$. What say you?
Unknown. The only guy currently selling them wants $450 each :o. I'll pay that if I have to, but I have a lead on someone who has a bunch and may sell them cheaper, so I'm working that angle first.
Ken
I had a pair of Bendix 6900's in a 999ES - they are beautiful well engineered tubes, but bought them before the price became crazy. They were the best tubes I tried amongst (Amperex, Tung Sol and others), however a pair of the standard Tung Sols that Dan had cryoed came very close to them. I would struggle to pay $450 each :o IMHO they are not worth this much .
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Has anyone tried the "Controller" yet? I currently use my ipod touch as my remote and while it is pretty cool, it can still be a bit buggy. I am wondering how the Controller is?
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We have heard a number of Bendix 6900's in various Sony and Denon CDP's from our clients over the years. Some can be quite microphonic but reveal amazing detail. Dan nor I have found them to be our favorite 5687 / 7119 / 7044 / 6900 variant in our personal systems. The folks that like the 6900 REALLY love the sound................YMMV
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With my GZ37 at Ted's and my 5AR4 shipping out tomorrow I decided to play around with the Tung Sol 5U4GB. What a fun tube. It is not the best in terms of the nth degree of detail and accuracy but it has a very engaging, musical nature to it. Really a lively sound.
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Has anyone tried the "Controller" yet? I currently use my ipod touch as my remote and while it is pretty cool, it can still be a bit buggy. I am wondering how the Controller is?
I've had a Controller for a couple of weeks - it works very well most of the time but can also be buggy (I've had to reboot by taking out the battery and it sometimes takes a few minutes to wake up). I prefer the remote with the Sonos music system (its bigger and landscape layout as opposed to the slim line and small screen on the Controller), also the high end Pronto that Ted has looks intriguing.
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With the rectifier options being the TS 5U4GB, Philips metal base GZ34 or perhaps the HW GZ37 you have 3 great tubes for the Transporter. They don't get much better than those 3 and perhaps the early fat base (f31) Mullard 5AR4 / GZ34.
Most audiophiles could easily live with any of these offerings!
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With the rectifier options being the TS 5U4GB, Philips metal base GZ34 or perhaps the HW GZ37 you have 3 great tubes for the Transporter. They don't get much better than those 3 and perhaps the early fat base (f31) Mullard 5AR4 / GZ34.
Most audiophiles could easily live with any of these offerings!
Well, having just purchased the latter (f31 fat black NOS Mullard GZ34) , one day before David's metal base became available (and paying a lot to tube world for a great condition NOS), I wasn't able to justify also buying the metal base.
So I'm wondering about an approach of keeping the pretty great rectifier I purchased, and upgrading the power cord. I know this is now turning into a cable question, but I'm curious if anyone can speak to the benefits of a Lessloss power cable, or one of the top line PS Audio's (which are on sale right now). Ideally if anyone has heard both it would be great to know! Thanks in advance for any thoughts...
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David and I use the Lessloss on our TP's and they are great. Dan loves them, too. I've no feedback or experience on PS Audio's cables. I don't hear much about them, really. Others to try include Black Sands (Violet Z2 or Silver Ref).
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David and I use the Lessloss on our TP's and they are great. Dan loves them, too. I've no feedback or experience on PS Audio's cables. I don't hear much about them, really. Others to try include Black Sands (Violet Z2 or Silver Ref).
As always, you guys are most helpful! Thanks again, and hopefully someday I can provide as valuable of service to the group.
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Hey people,
My Modwright TP should arrive today. Question about burn in: should I use the stock tubes or the NOS tubes (Mullard 5AR4 and RCA Cleartop 6CG7s)? 100 hours should do it, right?
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Hey people,
My Modwright TP should arrive today. Question about burn in: should I use the stock tubes or the NOS tubes (Mullard 5AR4 and RCA Cleartop 6CG7s)? 100 hours should do it, right?
I would say 150-200 hours to fully burn the caps in. My suggestion would be to start with the stock tubes for a little while and then roll in your other tubes. That way you are able to judge the differences they make in your system. Always better to have a baseline.
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Hey people,
My Modwright TP should arrive today. Question about burn in: should I use the stock tubes or the NOS tubes (Mullard 5AR4 and RCA Cleartop 6CG7s)? 100 hours should do it, right?
I would say 150-200 hours to fully burn the caps in. My suggestion would be to start with the stock tubes for a little while and then roll in your other tubes. That way you are able to judge the differences they make in your system. Always better to have a baseline.
Agreed 100%. The stock tubes are not duds, but until you live with them you won't know what your rolling to/from. 200 hrs+ is my guess.
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Thanks. I'll keep it running all week with the stock tubes and will do some headphone listening throughout. This weekend I'll set it up in my main rig with the NOS tubes.
So I am correct to assume that the tubes themselves don't break in? Just the capacitors, right?
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Thanks. I'll keep it running all week with the stock tubes and will do some headphone listening throughout. This weekend I'll set it up in my main rig with the NOS tubes.
So I am correct to assume that the tubes themselves don't break in? Just the capacitors, right?
I have found tubes generally need at least 100 hours on them to sound their best. And after that point they need about an hour of warm-up time once you first fire them up for daily listening. I usually have a bit of harshness and am light on bass if I try to listen to them and they have been on for less than 30 minutes or so.
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I have found tubes generally need at least 100 hours on them to sound their best. And after that point they need about an hour of warm-up time once you first fire them up for daily listening. I usually have a bit of harshness and am light on bass if I try to listen to them and they have been on for less than 30 minutes or so.
IME, I've found only minor improvements on new tubes after 30-50 hours of use. Definitely none after 100 hours.
Again, IME, once broken in, 30 minutes of warm-up becomes listenable and gets you about 80% of their maximum potential, an hour about 90% and several hours for 100%.
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Got everything set up last night. Thanks for the tips. I'll run the stock tubes for three more days then will switch over to the NOS ones. Headphone listening only until this weekend.
This makes me want to get my other Transporter modded as well, but I'd have to do some serious reconfiguring of my main rack.
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An alternative to Bendix are MU 6900's. I have a pair in my ModWright 9100ES. Cost was $350 a pair, a little more than a year ago.
In the 1960s, the Bendix Red Bank Division and remaining stock were purchased and re branded by MU Engineering. MU continued to manufacture small amounts of them to original specs with Bendix tooling at their Oceanside, California, plant. The MU's looked and sounded identical to the Bendix 6900, so I sold the Bendix.
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Got everything set up last night. Thanks for the tips. I'll run the stock tubes for three more days then will switch over to the NOS ones. Headphone listening only until this weekend.
This makes me want to get my other Transporter modded as well, but I'd have to do some serious reconfiguring of my main rack.
Personally I'd get used to the stock ones but only after break-in, say the next month or so. Any tube rolling before hearing the broken-in caps/stock tube combo (200+ hours) wil be somewhat ineffective IMHO. My $.02
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Ted, have you tried the Bendix 6900's in your 3910?
Ken
Ken,
No, I haven't. Although Wayne Donnelly was ga-ga over them, many I've spoken to say they are not nearly worth their huge $$. What say you?
Ted, I evaluated several pairs of Bendix 6900's in my 3910 this past weekend and they ranged from meh to absolutely phenomenal. Additional evaluations are planned and I'll post more comments as circumstances permit.
Ken
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Ted, have you tried the Bendix 6900's in your 3910?
Ken
Ken,
No, I haven't. Although Wayne Donnelly was ga-ga over them, many I've spoken to say they are not nearly worth their huge $$. What say you?
Ted, I evaluated several pairs of Bendix 6900's in my 3910 this past weekend and they ranged from meh to absolutely phenomenal. Additional evaluations are planned and I'll post more comments as circumstances permit.
Ken
Great! Wild that the same tubes would vary so much from "meh" (dunno what that means :lol:) to phenomenal. Keep us posted.
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The only rectifier I have heard that bests the metal base GZ34, is the Sophia Princess mesh 274b. Unfortunately it is a very quick heating tube, and likes to see a very low value cap ahead of it. I wish like hell we could use it with the MW transporter, as it has virtually the same characteristics as the metal base, but improves upon it slightly in all areas. Best part??? Readily available @ $190.
I guess this would also apply to the external PS for Modwright products since it is not usable in the TP?
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Don't know if you guys saw this yet or not, but while I was looking around for tubes, I came across this video... I thought it was pretty cool. If you get tired of buying tubes you could always make your own... :wink:
(audio is in French) scroll down to the bottom for the Vid
http://paillard.claude.free.fr/ (http://paillard.claude.free.fr/)
Cheers
-Funk
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Don't know if you guys saw this yet or not, but while I was looking around for tubes, I came across this video... I thought it was pretty cool. If you get tired of buying tubes you could always make your own... :wink:
(audio is in French) scroll down to the bottom for the Vid
http://paillard.claude.free.fr/ (http://paillard.claude.free.fr/)
Cheers
-Funk
Thanks for the link - it was posted a few months ago on another thread, but still it's a amazing the craftsmanship and patience they guy has.
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Just ordered a Mullard Fat Base, and matched pair of RCA clear tops to try out... Thanks to the tips in this thread...
I wanted to try a Holland made Phillips, but couldn't quite convince myself to part with that much money for a tube, yet... :D
Cheers
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Here is a pretty good 'buy it now' on a tested metal base GZ34. With the prices going up on these puppies, a bit over $200 with shipping isn't too bad.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260283114113&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us
I have no affiliation with this seller.
Someone WILL snag this tube!
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I'm probably going to put one up in that range soon. I feel like a hog with three. I won't be able to use them all unless I move to a 36.5 with external PS someday. All three of mine sound fantastic.
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Jerry:
Thank you again for selling me one of your Metal Base GZ-34s. I installed it tonight and all I can say is the Metal Base GZ-34/6H30DR combination is awesome!
Ken
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Kudos to RUR/Ken, who lent me one of his metal base GZ34's to audition in my SWL 9.0SE. Compared to my NOS black base RCA/Mullard, the metal base version is definitely a step up in bass detail, midrange clarity, and overall tonal balance. It's incredible how much sonic differences there are between various rectifiers tubes. Thus far I've used...
1) The stock Sovtek 5AR4- sounded fairly good until it blew, but not as detailed bass as I'd like. Never had the chance to compare it head to head with the others.
2) A Ruby 5AR4 (which Dan sent as a replacement)- Perhaps the most detailed in the mids and highs, but a bit fatiguing after a while, and still lacking in bass. Perhaps it needs more time for "burn-in".
3) A TAD "select" 5AR4, which I haven't listened to much- Thus far seems nicely balanced, and "smoother" than the Ruby, but likewise still a bit flabby in the bass.
4) A NOS RCA/Mullard black base- I'd rank this one just a notch below the metal base version.
5) The metal base Mullard- Definitely the most "musical" sounding of all, but I'm not sure I'd go above $200 in a bidding war for one!
On the output side, I've compared the stock Tungsol 5687's vs. the JAN Philips, but have not noticed any significant differences between them.
Next up, I plan to have a go with tube dampers. I recently got the cheap red silicone ring types, and will likely order Herbies to try as well.
Since the Ruby and TAD lean towards the "brighter" side, I'll try the dampers there first.
Thanks again to Ken for teasing me with the sound of the metal base vintage. At least I now have a "reference" to aim for!
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Thanks again to Ken for teasing me with the sound of the metal base vintage. At least I now have a "reference" to aim for!
You're most welcome, Alan.
@ Ted: Still waiting for more 6900's to evaluate in the 3910. :|
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It is way to quiet around here lately, we need to buy some tubes :D
I am wondering if anyone here knows about the 5931 tube? It is a rare military type rectifier tube, equivalent to the 5U4GB. It is supposed to be similar to the Tung Sol 5U4GB but punchier with more dynaimcs and resolution. They seem to go for about $60. I very well might try one, but thought I would also check and see if anyone here has some experience with this tube?
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Once again, David, we are on the same wavelength. :o My local find here (Noel,the gentleman with the 14,000 tubes) is looking for some for me, and I'll ping you if he finds any. I guess the Sylvania are the faves of this military spec variety of the 5U4GB.
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Crazy you thought about that tube as well :wink: I guess as Prez and VP it is our duty to kick this thread back into action :drums:
I know where to get that tube for $60 if you are interested? Have you heard good things about it as well? I can get Sylvania Gold Brand or Westinghouse military brownbase
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Crazy you thought about that tube as well :wink: I guess as Prez and VP it is our duty to kick this thread back into action :drums:
I know where to get that tube for $60 if you are interested? Have you heard good things about it as well? I can get Sylvania Gold Brand or Westinghouse military brownbase
:D
I've only read a few things, mostly the tube forum at the Asylum. I'm actually thinking about a pair as options for the 36.5. The metal base is sooooo good in the TP that I dare not fix what ain't broken.
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The metal base is sooooo good in the TP that I dare not fix what ain't broken.
If you guys find a tube that beats the metal base, or is cheaper, then I'm all ears.
Metal base 5AR4's are increasing in price, better to convert my 401k into NOS - probably worth more when I retire :cry:
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I've only read a few things, mostly the tube forum at the Asylum. I'm actually thinking about a pair as options for the 36.5. The metal base is sooooo good in the TP that I dare not fix what ain't broken.
Of course you need a pair, you 2 box elitist :lol:
Since I am a lowly one box 36.5 and TP owner the opposite is what I am thinking for me; having the 5AR4 in the 36.5 and that tube in the TP. I can get you two of them no problem if you want them.
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Tube world has NOS 5931 tubes for $35 and $40. You KNOW they're the real thing from TW.
I bought one a while ago but have been too busy to give it a whirl.
John
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Tube world has NOS 5931 tubes for $35 and $40. You KNOW they're the real thing from TW.
I bought one a while ago but have been too busy to give it a whirl.
John
Thanks John. Usually their prices are way higher than everybody else, I will check it out. Thanks for the tip.
Also I sent you a PM earlier :D
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Cheers...I recently added a MW transporter and LS 36.5 to my system...and as with many others, I couldn't be more pleased with the results (really is phenomenal). I've been following this thread from afar, as I knew it would not be long before the rolling begain :dance:
I'm currently, running Mullard 5AR4 and 6H30-DRs running in the 36.5 and the stock tubes in transporter.
On order (based on contributors recommendations 8) )...Phillips GZ32, 5U4GB Tung Sol, 6CG7 RCA cleartops, and 6CG7 blackplates to try in tranporter.
As a novice to tubes (and very much enjoying the combo of tubes with SS amp)...I'm wondering how one balances tube choices between the transporter and 36.5 (and even the PS...possible future addition). Perhaps I've missed discussion in this thread but is there a reasonable approach to tube rolling in multiple components? Additional recommendations? Thanks!
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Twodown,
As Prez of the Modwright TP Club, WELCOME!!!!! :wine:
Thanks for coming over from the great AVS Forum, and joining us here, too.
We've come to very few empirical/standard decisions about tube rolling except this......the 6H30DR's are the last signal tubes needed in the 36.5, and so is the early 50's late 40's metal base 5AR4 (expensive but makes for an easy answer). A great close second (for rectifiers in the 36.5) is the Tung Sol 5U4G and 5U4GB. But to answer your question directly....it's a tough decision to balance/weigh the advantges of one tube roll in the pre vs the source. They act like brightness and contrast on a tv monitor...one affects the other directly and in some cases it's counter intuitive. But in our Modwright world, if you can get the 36.5 settled as noted above, then you have huge editorial leeway on the TP. you can go lean, warm, thicker, thinner, midrange-oriented, bass-heavy, etc. Your homework looks pretty accurate though! Again.....welcome aboard!!
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Ted, I believe you meant to say the Tung Sol 5U4G or GB are excellent in the TP. He should not use one in his one box 36.5.
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Why not? Unless he has a metal base. I use a pair of Tung Sol 5U4GB's in my 36.5 two-box and love 'em.
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If I remember correctly Dan told me the 5U4's were not a suitable replacement in the one box. I know they work for the two-box though. It may be because the tube could not fit inside the one box?
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Good point regarding the bottle ST's (i.e 5U4G) but the GB's should fit, I think. Maybe not.
Edit: David, you're likely right. The GB's are smaller than the bottles, but are still much taller than 5AR4's.
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Good point regarding the bottle ST's (i.e 5U4G) but the GB's should fit, I think. Maybe not.
Edit: David, you're likely right. The GB's are smaller than the bottles, but are still much taller than 5AR4's.
Perhaps Rob (rpf) has tried it? I know he runs his 36.5 with the top off to allow for his GZ32. The good thing about owning both the 36.5 and the TP is that he can places the 5AR4 inside the 36.5 and roll whatever you want in the TP :thumb:
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Ted...thanks for the warm welcome and recommendations :thumb:
Between you and David everything is clear as a bell now :lol:
Sounds like I'm pretty solid for the 36.5 (with a possible upgrade to the metal base), and have some good tubes coming next week to begin rolling in the TP. Thanks guys :D
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Good point regarding the bottle ST's (i.e 5U4G) but the GB's should fit, I think. Maybe not.
Edit: David, you're likely right. The GB's are smaller than the bottles, but are still much taller than 5AR4's.
Perhaps Rob (rpf) has tried it? I know he runs his 36.5 with the top off to allow for his GZ32. The good thing about owning both the 36.5 and the TP is that he can places the 5AR4 inside the 36.5 and roll whatever you want in the TP :thumb:
I have yet to get around to trying the Tung Sol 5U4G/GB: it's my next purchase. Pretty much everything other than a 5AR4 is too tall to fit into the stock one box 36.5. Mine has been modified to line up with the cover for the PS 36.5 allowing me to use any appropriate tube (except the HW GZ37). Nonetheless, I'm back to using a 5AR4: my current favorites being a metal base Amperex Bugle Boy, and a Japanese Mullard.
I still prefer the HW GZ37 in the PS of my Modwright Truth Sony 9100.
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Where oh where could my tubes be :duh:
Kind of comical that USPS, FedEx, and UPS all delivered packages to the house today (one even said "fragile glass", but alas that was for the wife :cry:)
Any thoughts on what combo to insert first? Phillips GZ32, 5U4GB Tung Sol, 6CG7 RCA cleartops, and 6CG7 blackplates.
The wait is killing me (but got to admit the transport + 36.5 it sounds d**n good with the current tubes :green:)
Cheers
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Where oh where could my tubes be :duh:
Kind of comical that USPS, FedEx, and UPS all delivered packages to the house today (one even said "fragile glass", but alas that was for the wife :cry:)
Any thoughts on what combo to insert first? Phillips GZ32, 5U4GB Tung Sol, 6CG7 RCA cleartops, and 6CG7 blackplates.
The wait is killing me (but got to admit the transport + 36.5 it sounds d**n good with the current tubes :green:)
Cheers
Twodown:
You are in for a very good time. I really liked the GZ-32 with the 6CG7 Cleartops and later switched to the 6H30DRs. Currently running a GZ-34 Metal Base with the 6H30DRs. I will be interested to learn what you finally select as your favorite combination.
Have fun!
Ken
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Hi everyone
This is my first contribution to this list although I have been lurking around for quite some time. I regularly read this
thread and have picked up some very good advice from it - so now I felt it was time to make a contribution myself.
I have lived with the MW transporter for nine months now, but haven't engaged in any serious tube rolling yet. Partly this is due to the fact that I have been extremely happy with the sound in my current set-up. What I have installed right now is the familiar gz32 and the not so familiar 6N6P. I want to suggest this dirt-cheap Russian tube as a possible substitute for the 6H30P-DR. For a read-up on the 6N6P you shold visit the site of Lukasz Fikus, a Czech who is a warm supporter of the tube and obviously know a thing or two about valve amplification:
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html
He even claims that it betters the 6H30P "supertube". I can't testify to that because I haven't rolled in the 6H30P-DR myself yet, but I can say that after dropping in the 6N6P the sound from the transporter was elevated to a (for me) unknown level of musicality (and I have heard some quite exsotic rigs). And that is from a tube which I bought eight of for 20$ on ebay!
It could of course be the result of system synergy, but I really believe that this tube is something special.
I will of course try out the 6H30P-DR eventually, but now I have been on a shopping spree for rectifiers and severel are on their way. This includes a mullard gz34 (late 1950s with D-getter, but with black base), mullard CV378 (also late 1950s with D-getter), a new production Emission Labs 5U4G-Mesh and a mullard metal base gz34. The most interesting comparison will be between the EML and the mullard metal base. I have read that at least one owner of a really nice Woo headphone amp prefer the EML over the metal base gz34.
Since I have been able to snag a metal base gz34 on ebay for a reasonable price I will no longer be watching this auction, but maybe it could be of interest to som other transporter-fella or girl: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170264776096&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
I have no affiliation with the seller of course ;)
thalvor
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Welcome to the forum Thalvor, I too was a lurker on this site before taking the plunge - more fun and informative than the other audio sites, and some of the more talented 'boutique' equipment manufacturers/modders are active here. Which segues into Modwright and where I found Dan participates, it was Dan's musical approach to digital sourcing that got me back on the enjoying music track again. So I can understand your reactions to the MW TP.
Thanks for the lead on the alternative tube - I'll give these a try (so cheap - at the moment!). I've hit the spot with my rectifier tube and come to the conclusion that once you've got this in place then the signal tube is the next priority. I'm currently switching back and forth between a pair of 6H30-DR's and NOS 6N1P's (not the latest production), I prefer the extra detail the 6N1P's have but they can sound bright (depending on the recording and how I feel), consequently the 6N6P's may be the ticket if they give me the best of both worlds.
Please post back on your rectifier findings, it will be interesting to hear your findings on the EML as the metal base 34 is becoming too $$$$$$$$.
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Twodown:
You are in for a very good time. I really liked the GZ-32 with the 6CG7 Cleartops and later switched to the 6H30DRs. Currently running a GZ-34 Metal Base with the 6H30DRs. I will be interested to learn what you finally select as your favorite combination.
Have fun!
Ken
OK....I can see how this might become addictive :drool:
Starting out with 1959 Phillips GZ32 and RCA blacktops in the MW TP running to the 36.5 with Mullard 5AR4 and 6H30-DR combo.
Will give it time to settle in before fully evaluating and subsequently switching out the blacktops for the cleartops.
Cheers,
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Enjoy buddy!! make sure you give the tubes at least 100 hours before listening too critically.
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Thanks for the lead on the alternative tube - I'll give these a try (so cheap - at the moment!). I've hit the spot with my rectifier tube and come to the conclusion that once you've got this in place then the signal tube is the next priority. I'm currently switching back and forth between a pair of 6H30-DR's and NOS 6N1P's (not the latest production), I prefer the extra detail the 6N1P's have but they can sound bright (depending on the recording and how I feel), consequently the 6N6P's may be the ticket if they give me the best of both worlds.
Please post back on your rectifier findings, it will be interesting to hear your findings on the EML as the metal base 34 is becoming too $$$$$$$$.
Thanks for the welcome Philistine :) It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the comparison between the 6H30-DR and the 6N6P. From what others have said about the 6H30-DR I would guess that they will have some similar characteristics. In my view the 6N6P is a really well-balanced tube leaving little to be desired in neither top end or low end. It has a remarkable clearity without causing any listening strain over time.
The guy that sold me the batch of 6N6P claimed they were a rare collection from the 1950s, but I haven't been able to confirm this.
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Thalvor,
I sent you a pm. I'm very interested and will compare the 6N6P's with the DR's, the clear tops and my current fave (only because i already have DR's in my 36.5) the Raytheon black plate 6CG7's.
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Hi everyone
I have lived with the MW transporter for nine months now, but haven't engaged in any serious tube rolling yet. Partly this is due to the fact that I have been extremely happy with the sound in my current set-up. What I have installed right now is the familiar gz32 and the not so familiar 6N6P. I want to suggest this dirt-cheap Russian tube as a possible substitute for the 6H30P-DR. For a read-up on the 6N6P you shold visit the site of Lukasz Fikus, a Czech who is a warm supporter of the tube and obviously know a thing or two about valve amplification:
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html
He even claims that it betters the 6H30P "supertube". I can't testify to that because I haven't rolled in the 6H30P-DR myself yet, but I can say that after dropping in the 6N6P the sound from the transporter was elevated to a (for me) unknown level of musicality (and I have heard some quite exsotic rigs). And that is from a tube which I bought eight of for 20$ on ebay!
It could of course be the result of system synergy, but I really believe that this tube is something special.
Since I have been able to snag a metal base gz34 on ebay for a reasonable price I will no longer be watching this auction, but maybe it could be of interest to som other transporter-fella or girl: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170264776096&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
I have no affiliation with the seller of course ;)
thalvor
Thalvor:
Thanks for the recommendation of the 6N6P's. I just snagged 8 of them on ebay for $24.50. At that price if I don't like them in the Transporter I use them somehow in my tackle box. Ha, Ha!
Concerning the GZ-34 Metal Base on ebay, it is up to $190.00 with over 2 days left on the auction. The picture of the tube is of one that appears in excellent shape. I bet the final price on it exceeds $425.00 - we'll see!
Enjoy the ModWright Transporter.
Ken
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Hi everyone
I have lived with the MW transporter for nine months now, but haven't engaged in any serious tube rolling yet. Partly this is due to the fact that I have been extremely happy with the sound in my current set-up. What I have installed right now is the familiar gz32 and the not so familiar 6N6P. I want to suggest this dirt-cheap Russian tube as a possible substitute for the 6H30P-DR. For a read-up on the 6N6P you shold visit the site of Lukasz Fikus, a Czech who is a warm supporter of the tube and obviously know a thing or two about valve amplification:
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html
He even claims that it betters the 6H30P "supertube". I can't testify to that because I haven't rolled in the 6H30P-DR myself yet, but I can say that after dropping in the 6N6P the sound from the transporter was elevated to a (for me) unknown level of musicality (and I have heard some quite exsotic rigs). And that is from a tube which I bought eight of for 20$ on ebay!
It could of course be the result of system synergy, but I really believe that this tube is something special.
Since I have been able to snag a metal base gz34 on ebay for a reasonable price I will no longer be watching this auction, but maybe it could be of interest to som other transporter-fella or girl: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170264776096&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
I have no affiliation with the seller of course ;)
thalvor
Thalvor:
Thanks for the recommendation of the 6N6P's. I just snagged 8 of them on ebay for $24.50. At that price if I don't like them in the Transporter I use them somehow in my tackle box. Ha, Ha!
Concerning the GZ-34 Metal Base on ebay, it is up to $190.00 with over 2 days left on the auction. The picture of the tube is of one that appears in excellent shape. I bet the final price on it exceeds $425.00 - we'll see!
Enjoy the ModWright Transporter.
Ken
Likewise Ken - I picked up a gazillion on ebay for the price of a (large) pizza! I read the Lukasz Fikus post and tried to make sure I picked up the audiophile version. I'll compare these with the 6N1P/6H30DR in a 36.5 free environment and report back.
Guess we need to talk down the GZ34 metal, it's becoming more inflationary than oil. NOS tubes have been selling for around $400 recently :duh:
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Anyone want to send me an extra set??? :thumb:
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I'll send you a pair David.
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I'll send you a pair David.
Thanks so much! I will PM you my info.
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Takka to Thalvor for sending me a pair of his vintage 6n6p's. Also, I just won my own pair of 1962 vintage 6n6p's on Ebay (all of $12). I'll report back soon (shipping from Norway and Ukraine respectively....something tells me David's tubes from Phil will arrive a bit sooner..... :D )
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Thanks ted_b. Having led some of you down the 6n6p-track I want to say that I don't have any SS in my system something that means that tube matching in the different components can be a bit tricky. The 6n6p in the transporter works very nice together with my pre- and amp, but does not fit equally well with my tubed headphone amp :roll:
Getting the "choir" of tubes to sing in harmony can be a challenge, but also part of the fun with tube-gear. Hope the 6n6p will turn out to be a good match for more than me. At least I haven't lead you down a track that leads to economic ruin... :)
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I use the same tubes on both my 36.5 + ext PS and Transporter : 6H30DR and GZ37 Mullard Coke bottle.
The coke bottle GZ37 sounds better than the GZ34 Metal base in my setup : more rich, natural, more articulated bass.
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Ndeslions,
As I posted earlier in this thread, I tried the DR's in both spots too, in the 2 box 36.5 and the TP. I found they were too much of a good thing and overdid the midrange, upper bass a bit. Do you have any issues with that in your setup? Maybe the GZ37's are a nice counterpoint? Hmmmm
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As I mentioned earlier in the thread the double use of the DR's did not work well for me, and I use a HW GZ 37 Rectifier. It was just too much of the same for me. I gained better detail and top in by placing my RCA Cleartop 6CG7's back into the Transporter while having the DR's in my 36.5. Of course YMMV
Ndeslions, I had the same experience as you with the GZ37. It was a better fit for me in my Transporter than a metal base GZ34. I use a Mullard fat base 5AR4 in my 36.5
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Thalvor:
Thanks for the recommendation of the 6N6P's. I just snagged 8 of them on ebay for $24.50. At that price if I don't like them in the Transporter I use them somehow in my tackle box. Ha, Ha!
Concerning the GZ-34 Metal Base on ebay, it is up to $190.00 with over 2 days left on the auction. The picture of the tube is of one that appears in excellent shape. I bet the final price on it exceeds $425.00 - we'll see!
Enjoy the ModWright Transporter.
Well the auction ended a short time ago and the tube sold for $370.85.
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Bigfish:
You're welcome - hope you'll enjoy them!
I also happen to enjoy both fishing and quality stereo gear. Is there an unknown connection here?
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Not sure this is the relevant thread to post this - but gets the most traffic.
Bybee Filters
On a recent, non-related thread, feedback from well respected members is that Bybee Filters in the power supply section of a power amp have the potential to offer a noticeable improvement to its performance. Many of the guys who hang out on the forum, users and modders, consider Bybees are an option that can bring benefits and, on this basis, I had Dan add these for me with the original mod he carried out. I've not had the chance to A/B these with TP without the Bybees, so cannot comment on the value of having them or not. Has anyone else gone down this path, and if so any feedback?
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I use Bybee AC filters on my power cords. Can't comment on what the sound is without them though. haven't a/b'd...just always used my trusty Bybee Quantum AC filters.
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I am very interested in reading what folks think of the 6N6P vs the 6H30. I don't own one of Dan's Transporters (no budget for that at the moment) but my hot rodded Squeezebox has a tube output stage using the 6N6P which I was inspired to use by Lukasz' Lampizator site. I have tried several types of 6N1P vs the 6N6P and I prefer the 6N6P in my rig but I'm really interested in how they compare to the 6H30. I know it's a different circuit but one always has the desire to find the best combination. :)
mike
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Mike,
you can borrow my 6h30's for a while if you like. I am running RCA cleartops at the moment.
I'll be checking people in at RMAF on Friday if you want to try a hand-off.
Jerry
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you can borrow my 6h30's for a while if you like. I am running RCA cleartops at the moment.
I'll be checking people in at RMAF on Friday if you want to try a hand-off.
Jerry,
That's very generous of you. I'll be helping Mike Garner in one of his rooms (probably the Analysis Audio room as I think Ted is going to lend a hand in the SP Tech room) so I'll be there Thursday through Sunday and I'll be sure to stop by the front desk and find you. :) I can bring you a set of 6N6P's to try if you like, I too purchased 8 of them from the Ukraine for dirt cheap. I will likely drag my player along as a backup and perhaps I can sneak in an after hours tube rolling session. :)
mike
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you can borrow my 6h30's for a while if you like. I am running RCA cleartops at the moment.
I'll be checking people in at RMAF on Friday if you want to try a hand-off.
Jerry,
That's very generous of you. I'll be helping Mike Garner in one of his rooms (probably the Analysis Audio room as I think Ted is going to lend a hand in the SP Tech room) so I'll be there Thursday through Sunday and I'll be sure to stop by the front desk and find you. :) I can bring you a set of 6N6P's to try if you like, I too purchased 8 of them from the Ukraine for dirt cheap. I will likely drag my player along as a backup and perhaps I can sneak in an after hours tube rolling session. :)
mike
Mike - didn't see you use the DR suffix for the 6H30's but guess that's what you mean as the new 6H30's (average) and the DR's (excellent) have a completely different sound.
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Mike - didn't see you use the DR suffix for the 6H30's but guess that's what you mean as the new 6H30's (average) and the DR's (excellent) have a completely different sound.
I don't know which ones Jerry has but yes, If I were to buy a pair the DR version is what they would be. :) I do have a pair of the 6H30Pi Octal's that I have the itch to do something with but so far have not. I have no idea how they compare to the 9 pin versions but the specs are pretty stunning as it will dissipate about 3x the power of a 9pin 6H30 and has about 1/3 the plate resistance. So far I'm very happy with the 6N6P but then again it's (I'm sure) a different circuit than what Dan is using in the Transporter.
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Not sure this is the relevant thread to post this - but gets the most traffic.
Bybee Filters
On a recent, non-related thread, feedback from well respected members is that Bybee Filters in the power supply section of a power amp have the potential to offer a noticeable improvement to its performance. Many of the guys who hang out on the forum, users and modders, consider Bybees are an option that can bring benefits and, on this basis, I had Dan add these for me with the original mod he carried out. I've not had the chance to A/B these with TP without the Bybees, so cannot comment on the value of having them or not. Has anyone else gone down this path, and if so any feedback?
I've had Bybee filters in a number of products. On the Pwr. Supply of my Modwright Sig. Truth Sony 9100, and on both the Pwr. Supply and Analog Outs of a Modwright SWL 9.0 and Modwright Absolute Truth Philips SACD 1000. On the latter two I've had the units both with and without the Bybees. I've also had the Bolder RCA Inline Bybees.
My experience with them is that they do act to reduce the noise level, giving a blacker background. However, I find too many of them in a system, or outside of the Power Supply (on Analog Outs, on ICs), thin out the midrange.
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Mike,
Mine are DR's. I'll bring them with me.
Jerry
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I use the same tubes on both my 36.5 + ext PS and Transporter : 6H30DR and GZ37 Mullard Coke bottle.
The coke bottle GZ37 sounds better than the GZ34 Metal base in my setup : more rich, natural, more articulated bass.
Ndeslions,
What GZ37 do you use? I notice a number of them on Ebay but none are David's High Wycombe that he got from rpf Not sure what the next best is...and with Ebay buy-it-now at 30% off (cashback) now might be a time to try one.
I just got my 6N6P's from thalvor...thank you Thomas! I assume they are NOS and need 100 hrs or so. Tonight, completely fresh out of the box, they were underwhelming but unfair to say frankly. I won't report back until I've broken them in properly.
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A picture of my two favorite rectifiers at the moment:
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thalvor/DSC_3027.jpg)
I’ve now had some time with some alternative rectifiers for the transporter. Here are my thoughts:
In comparison with the High Wycombe gz37 and the metal base gz34 the fat base gz34 and the gz32 was quickly dismissed. Trying to pick a favorite between the HW gz37 and the MB gz34 has proven to be difficult.
They are excellent rectifiers, but they have different strengths. They both produce a very wide soundstage. With the right recordings one is totally enveloped in sound as if listening to very sophisticated surround stereo. Still, for most recordings the HW gz37 does produce a slightly deeper soundstage. While some elements in the recording might sound more removed with the HW gz37, the MB gz34 presentation is in general more up-front. As a result the soundstage of the HW gz37 sounds a bit more airy and three-dimensional (maybe at the expense of sounding less focused on some music).
Of the two the MB gz34 is the slightly more dynamic. As others have commented on, this is especially noticeable in the upper bass region where the MB gz34 is punchier and more energic. Depending on the recording this might, or might not be welcomed. On some recordings with a lot of energy in the same region it can become a bit over-the-top with the MB gz34, but it is basically a matter of personal taste. I tend to prefer the sound of the more relaxed HW gz 37 on such recordings.
On the other hand the MB gz34 is slightly less grainy than the HW gz37 and the HW gz37 does sound slightly darker compared to the MB gz34.
For the time being I'm unable to pick a favorite and will be alternating between both rectifiers. I'm still waiting for the EML rectifier. I'll report back when it arrives.
Thomas
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Thomas,
I am having the same fun with three rectifiers I've been playing with.
I received your 6N6P's and put them in last week. After about 50 hrs or so I decided to start some listening. The metal base 5AR4, which had been married to the Raytheon black plate 6CG7's, was now married to the 6N6P, and the sound was lean, detailed and a little too thin for my tastes. Acoustic bass lost its magic, and the midrange was a bit recessed. It could still be a result of the signal tube break-in process, but I decided to try a different rectifier regardless. I installed my Philips GZ32 and the soundstage shrunk ever so slightly (not a deal breaker), but the bass energy was over the top and then some. And the detail went a bit grainy. On certain recordings this was workable, but overall the marriage was too mid-bass heavy. Next came my original (I own 5 now thanks to my local tube guy) Tung Sol 5U4G. The soundstage was slightly wider than even the MB, and slightly deeper too, bu the midbass hump was there, and the imaging was slightly smeared (Note: we are nitpicking here...on a desert island I'm fine with ANY one of these combos). Another 48 hours had passed and i went back to the metal base. This time not so thin; better meat on the bone, and detail was very very good....but there still seemed to be a slight analytical sound (maybe a bit hot at the top) compared to the reference system.
I had posted earlier that although the 6H30DR's were an incredible pair for the 36.5 (as we've all agreed) they were too over the top, almost too dynamic, to be doubled up at the TP as well (with the metal base rectifier). But since that post I've added a pair of monoblock Spectrons, upgraded my ac outlets to Synergistic Research TeslaPlex ones, and have several hundred more hours on the metal base. Although the 6N6P's were starting to come into their own, I was tempted to put the DR's back in and hear what they sounded like. So I did. Well, last night the sound was very very much to my liking. Not over the top, but very dynamic, very balanced, lots of energy, lots of clean bass and beautiful midrange. Maybe this is what the 6N6P's will sound like once completely broken-in, but for now I'm gonna live with this combo and let it's third row center perspective grow on me. I might decide its too close, but for now I'm enjoying it.
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Ted,
good to hear they arrived safely and thanks for your assessment. If you have almost 100 hours on them I would expect they have pretty much settled now and that there will be only minor alterations in the sound with further use. It would have been almost too good to be true if this very cheap tube could topple the 6H30DR's. I've put in a order for a pair of 6H30DR's at Parts and Connections now so that I can see if they will have the same positive effect in my system as many here are reporting. I've got a pair of JJ ECC99 waiting to be tried out as well. From what I've read Alex Peychev seem to prefer these new production tubes over both the 6N6P's and the 6H30DR's. I'll report back on my thoughts on this.
Thomas
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Thomas, Don't get me wrong. The 6N6P is likely a real find!! I'm just impatient, but if the 6N6P's continue to improve at that pace they will be the poor man's DR in no time.
On a sad note....ARGH, my metal base died. :scratch: I noticed last night that the base itself is loose and will "unscrew" or move slightly, maybe an eighth of a rotation. I wonder if I broke any connections. It seems the tube lights up a little, then goes dark. ARGH! in the meantime, I'm trying one of my trusty Tung Sol 5U4GB's to hear whether they are sonically the same as their somewhat bass-heavy bottle shaped "G" cousin. In the 36.5 they are magical (and clearly different than their G version).
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I'm still waiting for my 6N6P's, any day now - I see that their are different 'vintages' and manufacturing plants, so not sure what relevance this has or not as it does with the 6H30's? I still prefer the detail of the 6N1P's, but still come back to the 6H30DR's as being the best all rounders so far.
Rectifier Tubes
I still find the GZ34 metal to be a magical tube, smooth, detailed, good bass and very musical.
The Emission Labs 5U4G-Mesh look interesting, the other esoteric tune is the Sophia Princess 274B (if this is compatible with the TP). It will be interesting to hear your comments Thomas when you get the EML - it does look very well engineered.
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Well, as Mark Twain once said "the rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated"...my metal base comes back to life. It required some patience and a hefty push into the socket (although the tube was well-seated....dunno). It's a bit temperamental, so thanks Thomas (thalvor) for the link to a couple more. Net/net, after a few hours with the 5U4GB (which held its own against the G and GZ32), there ain't nothin like the detail and incredible balance of the metal base. Ahhhhhhhh.
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Just snagged another metal base today from Italy..............can't have enough of those things!
I can stop anytime I want...........really.............I don't have a GZ34 metal base addiction!
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Ted,
good to hear they arrived safely and thanks for your assessment. If you have almost 100 hours on them I would expect they have pretty much settled now and that there will be only minor alterations in the sound with further use. It would have been almost too good to be true if this very cheap tube could topple the 6H30DR's. I've put in a order for a pair of 6H30DR's at Parts and Connections now so that I can see if they will have the same positive effect in my system as many here are reporting. I've got a pair of JJ ECC99 waiting to be tried out as well. From what I've read Alex Peychev seem to prefer these new production tubes over both the 6N6P's and the 6H30DR's. I'll report back on my thoughts on this.
Thomas
I've heard that too but I didn't know the ECC99 was a direct replacement for the 6H30?
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Many of the Ebay'ers selling the 6N6P are claiming that it is substitutable with the ECC99, so I have just assumed that the ECC99 would also work in the transporter. I'm very interested in knowing for certain if this is a tube applicable in the transporter - don't want to fry my dream machine :)
Here's a link to the ECC99's datasheet: http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC99.pdf
Thomas
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Many of the Ebay'ers selling the 6N6P are claiming that it is substitutable with the ECC99, so I have just assumed that the ECC99 would also work in the transporter. I'm very interested in knowing for certain if this is a tube applicable in the transporter - don't want to fry my dream machine :)
Here's a link to the ECC99's datasheet: http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC99.pdf
Thomas
From what I understand the ECC99 may not work in the TP - I would check with Dan first.
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I PM'd Dan earlier today, once this came up, to ask him to swoop in and comment.
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Parts and Connexions not selling 6H30DR's anymore due to supplier problems :duh: Any other good source?
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Parts and Connexions not selling 6H30DR's anymore due to supplier problems :duh: Any other good source?
There is a seller on Audiogon - Conus
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1227463443&/Nos.-Supertube.-6H30P-DR.bat.-
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$155 for one!? Crimeny.
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Just snagged another metal base today from Italy..............can't have enough of those things!
I can stop anytime I want...........really.............I don't have a GZ34 metal base addiction!
I may need to pick another one up. As all of you know I preferred the HW GZ37 that I have to the metal base GZ34, but I have since switched speakers. Once they settle in it would be interesting to re-compare these two great tubes.
Ted, just give me a few weeks and you can borrow my GZ37 before you buy one. I have plenty of other tubes I can use for a bit.
I head to Miami for work for a few days and all the sudden there is some action on here. Oh well, off to go look at the action on South Beach :drool:
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With my metal base being so finnicky (once again needed to wiggle it to power it up) I picked up another one today for $104 (after 20% Ebay buy it now cashback). I'll report on its sonics once it arrives.
David, thanks, maybe this time i can listen to it. :duh:
Edit (later that same evening):
So my metal base continues to taunt me, and may now have given up the ghost one final time. It doesn't respond to any jostling, etc. So I tried the fat base (black) Mullard 5AR4 with the DR's, and to my surprise it was the leanest and least powerful sounding of any of the rectifier/signal combos. Everything collapsed slightly, and the lower octaves lost control and extension. It was as if the DR's were replaced with stock 6H30's (It continues, frankly, to amaze me how a rectifier can affect the sonics so greatly). Just for the hell of it, and because it was lying next to the TP, I tried again the Philips (Mullard) GZ32, this time of course with the DR's, not the earlier 6N6P's. Well.......I'll be damned...easily my second most favorite combo of the past few weeks (metal base w/DR's being the fave). In fact, it is a very close second, with all the dynamics, soundstage depth, clarity and balance of the metal base. Weird that with the powerful DR's it is behaving much better and much more in line with the metal base than when paired with the 6N6P, where it was bass heavy, grainy and slightly constricted width-wise. I guess it's about synergy.
Net/net, try all your combos. In some cases, as Thom Yorke would say, "2+2 = 5".
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I am answering for Dan here as he is running full tilt to get ready for RMAF.
He doesn't think the ECC99 is a drop in replacement for the TP output tubes.
Nice buy on the metal base GZ34, Ted!
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Tube updates (for my Modwright Plat. Truth Sony 9100 and LS 36.5):
Finally got and tried a Tung Sol 5U4G (thanks to Jerrym). Very nice and a great value. More forward and dynamic, with sharper leading edge transients, than any of the other tubes I've tried. Less ease and depth, less holographic, than the others, especially, of course, the HW GZ37.
Most interestingly, it seems to me most like the Mullard/Philips GZ32 of the 5V4 family. They share a tighter (pronounced leading edge transients), more focused sound. The GZ32, while less forward and dynamic, is more refined, and still without peer in its three dimensional portrayal of individual images, particularly voices, which can be eerily real.
Overall, I still most prefer the HW GZ37 in the CDP (though it is fun to switch in the GZ32 or 5U4G, depending on source material) and a 5AR4 in the linestage. Mostly using a metal base Bugle Boy 5AR4 but at times I've found a smooth plate '70s Japanese Mullard very enjoyable. The latter has a fuller, richer bass and lower mid-range; if less air, delicacy, ambient detail and depth than the Amperex. The Japanese pieces are a great bargain, however, at the going rate of around $60. NOS.
FWIW, if anyone here is interested, I'll be putting one of my extra NOS HW GZ37s (black base, grey plates) up for sale at the price I paid for it at the end of last year ($30-75. less than the dealers are asking now). First dibs to Jerrym.
Rob
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I am answering for Dan here as he is running full tilt to get ready for RMAF.
He doesn't think the ECC99 is a drop in replacement for the TP output tubes.
Nice buy on the metal base GZ34, Ted!
Thanks for the clarification on the ECC99 John - and stop distorting market prices by buying all those metal base 5AR4's!.
My 6N6P's arrived today - also just sent my amp psu for mod so not sure if I'll be able to do a reliable A/B with these and the 6H30's or not, I'll fire up my Butler amp anyway (or anyways - as my kids with their annoying Pittsburgh accents say).
The 6N6P's look similar in design to the 6H30's but the guys who built them must have drunk to much vodka as the pins and internal 'stuff' looks drunk.
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Forgot to mention that I finally also spent some time really comparing the new production 6H30Ps to the 6H30DRs - and of course now I can't go back. There's an annoying hardness to the stock tubes while the DRs, besides giving more truthful tonality, also provide improved imaging.
Does anyone know the estimated hour life of the DRs?
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Does anyone know the estimated hour life of the DRs?
I'm not sure on the life of the DRs, but I'm fond enough that a second pair will be arriving tomorrow :D
On another note: I recently upgraded from stock to a Phillips GZ32 + RCA 6CG7 clear tops (prefer over the RCA 6CG7 black plates in my system)....now I want too see if there is more out there 8)
Although if I didn't follow this thread :duh: I would be more than satisfied with this combination. However, I'm considering the purchase of a 5AR4 metal base and/or HW GZ37.
I'm currently running a Mullard 5AR4 (black) + 6H30-DRs in my LS 36.5....
Any thoughts on replacing the 5AR4 (black) with a metal base 5AR4 + a HW GZ37 in the TP or combination of black/metal 5AR4 rectifiers in 36.5 and TP?
Cheers
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Twodown,
IMO the killer combo is:
LS 36.5
* metal base 5AR4/GZ34 + DR's
TP
* HW GZ37 + (pick a pair.....clear tops, Raytheon black plates, another pair of DR's, a pair of 6N1P's or a pair of vintage 6N6P's).
The other thing I'd try is moving the metal base to the TP and using a Tung Sol 5U4GB in the pre.
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Twodown,
IMO the killer combo is:
LS 36.5
* metal base 5AR4/GZ34 + DR's
TP
* HW GZ37 + (pick a pair.....clear tops, Raytheon black plates, another pair of DR's, a pair of 6N1P's or a pair of vintage 6N6P's).
The other thing I'd try is moving the metal base to the TP and using a Tung Sol 5U4GB in the pre.
Thanks for the insight Ted :thumb:
I've been amazed at the change by adding the GZ32 rectifier + clear tops in the TP, but there seems to be a consensus on the MB 5AR4, HW GZ37 along with 6H30-DRs....I think I will give your "killer" combo a test run (I also have a TS 5U4GB)!
Cheers,
EDIT: Any concerns with the TP stock fuse and current draw of HW GZ37?
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Michael, I compared the metal base 5AR4 to my Mullard fat base in my 36.5 and actually preferred the fat base. I then compared the metal base to the HW GZ37 in my TP and went with the GZ37. This was while I owned Dali's, and since you own Dali's you may have a similar experience??
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That's the beauty (and sometimes frustration) of tube rolling. The synergy comes together (redundant?) with the most unexpected bedfellows sometimes. The influence of impedance, power, tone (speakers), cable flavors, all make for a set of variables that are often-times overlooked. I guess it's why we have a thread with hundreds of ideas here, and there are few if any "standards" or empirical truths. I woudl NEVER have thought my DR's would marry up with a GZ32 in the TP, given the previous experience with both individually, but tonight's listening session was as good is it gets. :thumb:
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That's the beauty (and sometimes frustration) of tube rolling. The synergy comes together (redundant?) with the most unexpected bedfellows sometimes. The influence of impedance, power, tone (speakers), cable flavors, all make for a set of variables that are often-times overlooked. I guess it's why we have a thread with hundreds of ideas here, and there are few if any "standards" or empirical truths. I woudl NEVER have thought my DR's would marry up with a GZ32 in the TP, given the previous experience with both individually, but tonight's listening session was as good is it gets. :thumb:
With the stand alone TP the consensus is GZ32/DR combo - you guys with the 36.5 have even more variables to deal with!
Question - is it worth trying the GZ37 or calling it quits?
I've tried the 6N6P's this evening, but I'm in uncharted territory having to use a Rotel 1098 Processor and Butler amp while my amp is away for hot rodding. I'm not going to be able to draw any conclusions on these for a few weeks.
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With the stand alone TP the consensus is GZ32/DR combo - you guys with the 36.5 have even more variables to deal with!
Question - is it worth trying the GZ37 or calling it quits?
Hi - I've been traveling and off the board for a bit. Is the GZ32/DR really the new consensus? What happened to the consensus on the GZ34? :( I got the NOS fat black base from the 50's and it wasn't that cheap. And dammit, I want to feel good about it!!! aa
Seriously, I'm curious what the feeling is on that comparison if someone's done it directly...
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With the stand alone TP the consensus is GZ32/DR combo - you guys with the 36.5 have even more variables to deal with!
Question - is it worth trying the GZ37 or calling it quits?
Hi - I've been traveling and off the board for a bit. Is the GZ32/DR really the new consensus? What happened to the consensus on the GZ34? :( I got the NOS fat black base from the 50's and it wasn't that cheap. And dammit, I want to feel good about it!!! aa
Seriously, I'm curious what the feeling is on that comparison if someone's done it directly...
Sorry my mistake - GZ34/DR combination.
What I'm really trying to find out is performance differences between the metal GZ34 and the GZ37.
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Question regarding tube matching. I bought a set of (3)each 6H30 DR's last year to put in my 36.5. It only uses two of those tubes. I have (1) single DR spare. I now own a MWI TP and am interested in exploring some of the tube rolling recommendations I have been reading here (ie using the 6H30DR's).
Do I need to look for a new "matched" pair of 6H30DR's? or just a new single tube to go with my spare 6H30? Is it desired that the two tubes are closely matched?
What is a good, reasonably priced, source for these now?
Thanks,
Kenreau
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Michael, I compared the metal base 5AR4 to my Mullard fat base in my 36.5 and actually preferred the fat base. I then compared the metal base to the HW GZ37 in my TP and went with the GZ37. This was while I owned Dali's, and since you own Dali's you may have a similar experience??
Hey David, possible considering some of the similarities between our systems (maybe I can borrow your amp for an even closer comparison :drool:).
But isn't that some of the fun of this hobby.....besides I'll have that 'I wonder if those tubes would sound better' feeling in the back of my head without an "in-house" audition.
A second matched pair of 6H30-DRs arrived today with MB 5AR4 and HW GZ34 on the way....will report back on impressions.
Thanks to all :thumb:
Dodgers 2 Phillies 3 :( should be a great series
Cheers
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It is way to quiet around here lately, we need to buy some tubes :D
I am wondering if anyone here knows about the 5931 tube? It is a rare military type rectifier tube, equivalent to the 5U4GB. It is supposed to be similar to the Tung Sol 5U4GB but punchier with more dynaimcs and resolution. They seem to go for about $60. I very well might try one, but thought I would also check and see if anyone here has some experience with this tube?
Well most of you guys are definitely beyond my price point with the metal-based GZ34's et al... but I DO know about the 5931. The Sylvanias I have give the Transporter a big, bold, but somewhat raw sound. I prefer the Tung-Sol 5U4-G or 5U4GB. If you want to try a couple of mine, I'd ship them to you... Seems like it's the thing to do around here these days :D
Frank
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Tube updates (for my Modwright Plat. Truth Sony 9100 and LS 36.5):
Finally got and tried a Tung Sol 5U4G (thanks to Jerrym). Very nice and a great value. More forward and dynamic, with sharper leading edge transients, than any of the other tubes I've tried. Less ease and depth, less holographic, than the others, especially, of course, the HW GZ37.
Most interestingly, it seems to me most like the Mullard/Philips GZ32 of the 5V4 family. They share a tighter (pronounced leading edge transients), more focused sound. The GZ32, while less forward and dynamic, is more refined, and still without peer in its three dimensional portrayal of individual images, particularly voices, which can be eerily real.
Overall, I still most prefer the HW GZ37 in the CDP (though it is fun to switch in the GZ32 or 5U4G, depending on source material) and a 5AR4 in the linestage. Mostly using a metal base Bugle Boy 5AR4 but at times I've found a smooth plate '70s Japanese Mullard very enjoyable. The latter has a fuller, richer bass and lower mid-range; if less air, delicacy, ambient detail and depth than the Amperex. The Japanese pieces are a great bargain, however, at the going rate of around $60. NOS.
FWIW, if anyone here is interested, I'll be putting one of my extra NOS HW GZ37s (black base, grey plates) up for sale at the price I paid for it at the end of last year ($30-75. less than the dealers are asking now). First dibs to Jerrym.
Rob
Well, if you do decide to part with your GZ37, I'd like to give it a try :drool:. Let me know?
Tx!
Frank
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I have been playing around a bit more the last night or two. I have tried my HW GZ37, Tung Sol 5U4GB, and a military brown base GZ32 (CV593). The Tung Sol is fun for its dynamics but I just lose to much top end detail for my liking. The GZ32 AND GZ37 is a bit trickier. Nothing compares to the bass of the GZ37, it almost sounds like the difference between having a sub on and off in my system. It can almost border on too much bass but when it is on, boy is it sweet :drool: The GZ37 can at times sound a bit too dark for my liking. I think I may need to find a nicer GZ32 (possibly a metal base) and then see what I think.
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I have been playing around a bit more the last night or two. I have tried my HW GZ37, Tung Sol 5U4GB, and a military brown base GZ32 (CV593). The Tung Sol is fun for its dynamics but I just lose to much top end detail for my liking. The GZ32 AND GZ37 is a bit trickier. Nothing compares to the bass of the GZ37, it almost sounds like the difference between having a sub on and off in my system. It can almost border on too much bass but when it is on, boy is it sweet :drool: The GZ37 can at times sound a bit too dark for my liking. I think I may need to find a nicer GZ32 (possibly a metal base) and then see what I think.
David,
A metal base GZ32? I've never heard of one. :scratch: If you're ready to sample the black base one (from '66) I'll post it down to you (just send me your address in case I no longer have it). I still usually prefer the HW GZ37, although sometimes it's fun to switch. As I posted earlier, the GZ32 excels in imaging and presents gorgeous vocals.
Rob
PS: for those who have inquired about the HW GZ37 I'm selling, I'm still waiting to hear back from Jerrym who's been at RMAF. If he doesn't want it I'll go down the list of PMs in the order received.
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I have been playing around a bit more the last night or two. I have tried my HW GZ37, Tung Sol 5U4GB, and a military brown base GZ32 (CV593). The Tung Sol is fun for its dynamics but I just lose to much top end detail for my liking. The GZ32 AND GZ37 is a bit trickier. Nothing compares to the bass of the GZ37, it almost sounds like the difference between having a sub on and off in my system. It can almost border on too much bass but when it is on, boy is it sweet :drool: The GZ37 can at times sound a bit too dark for my liking. I think I may need to find a nicer GZ32 (possibly a metal base) and then see what I think.
David, do you mean the GZ32 can sound dark? or the same GZ37 that provides sweet bass can sound dark?
And I too have never seen a metal base GZ32.
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The GZ37 can sound a bit dark sometimes. It is an amzing tube that does many things well, and in my system the bass it has compared to other tubes is just crazy. Ted, let me know if you want to swap a metal base GZ34 for my HW GZ37 for a week or two?
I thought for some reason I had seen a metal based GZ32 but clearly I am wrong. I have a brown base military version of a Mullard right now the CV593. It sounds like I need to try Rob's early black base (thanks for the offer). I think I am also going to pick up the larger military version of the 5U4GB. If I could get the dynamics of my Tung Sol with more top end, that would make for a very interesting tube...
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for those who have inquired about the HW GZ37 I'm selling, I'm still waiting to hear back from Jerrym who's been at RMAF. If he doesn't want it I'll go down the list of PMs in the order received.
Still interested, if nobody else has snapped it up yet. :wink:
what's the HW part ? Is it a code from Phillips, or Mullard or something? Very few mentions of this tube through Google (most of them right here).
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for those who have inquired about the HW GZ37 I'm selling, I'm still waiting to hear back from Jerrym who's been at RMAF. If he doesn't want it I'll go down the list of PMs in the order received.
Still interested, if nobody else has snapped it up yet. :wink:
what's the HW part ? Is it a code from Phillips, or Mullard or something? Very few mentions of this tube through Google (most of them right here).
Hey Funk....HW= High Wycombe (England) tubes made in the early '50s. If you are thinking about trying a GZ37 the HW "Big Bottle" seems the way to go. I just inserted one in my transporter (still to soon to comment...but so far so good :drool:). You can find them on Tube World (a bit pricey though).
Cheers,
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Thanks twodown. I saw them there, and a few around, but just not with the "HW" designation. Thanks for the clarification.
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Hey guys! Good evening to everyone. This is Rodney in Raleigh, N.C. with VTubeAudio. I see a few questions here about the rectifier / tubes of choice for the ModWright Transporter. I have rolled nearly every tube imaginable, and a few not on any list here.
I really believe that the most important thing is to get "very strong" NOS tubes. A tube can look new or old and be the exact opposite. It is the hardest part of the tube business, telling the difference. A tube can test weak or strong on your tube testers but this is still very misleading. The true test is how it sounds. That is why I love this forum.
Rectifiers to try:
The GZ37 did not impress me, not even the Wycombe.
The JAN 5U4's are really good but may over emphasize the bass just a bit. If that is your thing then it is a great rectifier.
The Metal Base GZ34, all years, lends itself to balance and clarity in the sound. In other words it has no faults and doesn’t' do anything wrong. It also doesn't boost or magnify any frequency / tone but delivers a high quality sound, high class sound.
The Philips branded GZ34 / 1965 black base / single halo getter / smooth dual gray plates / chrome top / tubular shape (in my opinion) is the best. I am trying to find a few more to build my stock up a bit before advertising this fact. I think I only have one. LOL!
The best output tubes are the 6H30DR's and this is sad. I am trying to restock and could use some help finding new supplies of them.
I tried quite a few other tubes for the left and right outputs but pledged my loyalty to the 6H30n-dp's and quit rolling tubes on the outputs because I didn't see any use in it.
Please at least visit my EBay auction for the Bugle Boy Metal Base GZ34 1957 rectifier. I slipped / made a mistake when posting it and started the auction at .01 without a reserve. OOOps! I honestly did not do that on purpose. LOL!
So here is the deal. If anyone from Audiocircle wins the Metal Base GZ34 Bugle Boy, emails me that they saw this posting on AudioCircle, I will give them free of charge my Philips GZ34 or a brand new matched pair of 6H30Dr's. Your choice!
Thanks for your help and support. The VTubeaudio Website will be up and running, completely new look, very soon. Please wish me luck on it, the developer is pulling out new technology and promises that it will be very special when completed.
I do hope to find more time to follow this thread. I love it! I will check back to read up on the latest tube rolling news occasionally. What you guys have going on here is fantastic. Keep it up!
Take care guys and have a great day!
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I just thought I would pop in and say hello. I shipped my stock black Transporter to Dan today for truth modding after six months of being indecisive on the matter. So, as I am a complete tube-newb I thought I would peruse this thread a bit. I hesitate rushing straight into rolling, but whether I immediately roll or not, I thought I would say hi since this seems to kind of be the most official MW TP hangout spot I have found. :D I should be seeing mine back in a couple weeks all ModWrighted out. Pretty cool that I went full served digital the same year I started playing with tubes. I have to say I am excited!
From reading around, if I want to start rolling in earnest I would be wise to pick up:
5U4G or GB Tung Sol
RCA Clearcaps
GZ34 or 5AR4 Mullard/BB etc - Cool offer you are making Rodney on your BB.
Maybe some 6H30 DR.
I have a curious question - I have recently auditioned some Salk HT3 which some of you are aware of. I have been thinking about a small bitey-nature to the midrange I experienced in the audition and wondered if I could tame it with a warmer than average tube set. It would be a set I would only pull out for recordings that need some softening, and then I would have my detail/neutral tube set for my well recorded stuff. Anyone think this is possible or am I putting too much faith in a tube change? I really don't have a clue the kind of difference to expect between tubes. Newbie Xing!!
-Michael
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Michael,
Hi. An official WELCOME to the MW TP tube rolling club!! :thumb:
Yes, tube rolling at its extreme (warm sounding rectifier and signal tubes) can really make a difference. IMO you can go too far, even. I'd start with Dan's stock tubes for at least a month, so you have a baseline. you'll be surprised at the wonderful sound. Then, if still curious (of course you will be.. :wink: ) go inexpensively with some neutral-to-warmer tubes like the black plate 6Cg7's and some 5U4GB's (Sylvania or Tung Sol, both are inexpensive for what you get). Have fun, take good notes, and once again welcome to the Forum.
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I just thought I would pop in and say hello. I shipped my stock black Transporter to Dan today for truth modding after six months of being indecisive on the matter. So, as I am a complete tube-newb I thought I would peruse this thread a bit. I hesitate rushing straight into rolling, but whether I immediately roll or not, I thought I would say hi since this seems to kind of be the most official MW TP hangout spot I have found. :D I should be seeing mine back in a couple weeks all ModWrighted out. Pretty cool that I went full served digital the same year I started playing with tubes. I have to say I am excited!
From reading around, if I want to start rolling in earnest I would be wise to pick up:
5U4G or GB Tung Sol
RCA Clearcaps
GZ34 or 5AR4 Mullard/BB etc - Cool offer you are making Rodney on your BB.
Maybe some 6H30 DR.
I have a curious question - I have recently auditioned some Salk HT3 which some of you are aware of. I have been thinking about a small bitey-nature to the midrange I experienced in the audition and wondered if I could tame it with a warmer than average tube set. It would be a set I would only pull out for recordings that need some softening, and then I would have my detail/neutral tube set for my well recorded stuff. Anyone think this is possible or am I putting too much faith in a tube change? I really don't have a clue the kind of difference to expect between tubes. Newbie Xing!!
-Michael
Michael, I've had a Modwright TP for coming up to a year and also have a pair of HT3's. Ted's advice, on allowing the TP to open up with the stock tubes, is spot on - you really need to allow it to open up and stabilize before making any changes.
With regard to what you hear with the HT3's, we all hear differently and I find them to be very fast, detailed and accurate - with no flattering of bad recordings. Others may equate tube rolling with tone controls, I view it a little differently and tube roll to extract as much full spectrum detail and accuracy as possible, and find that the HT3's can handle this very well. When I first had my HT3's I went through a critical period, during which I was not happy with them on certain recordings. After playing well recorded music the sound (particularly on vocals) was very smooth and realistic, consequently I concluded that I was pointing the blame at the wrong culprit - the HT2's were exposing this not creating it! This no longer bothers me as the TP source allows me to listen to these recordings at high volumes without any fatigue. I don't want to hijack Dan's circle, but I would share your HT3 concerns with Jim Salk, Jim is the first to admit that speaker design is a compromise and that no speaker is perfect. Back on the theme - I find the MWTP/HT3 combination works for me, and a good combination of power/signal tube increases the enjoyment.
I have most of the tubes on Ted's list, and I would be more than happy to loan them to you if you're interested.
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Michael, it's about time you started listening to me :thumb: Glad to hear you are upgrading your stock Transporter, you will really love what it does for your system.
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LOL. No worries, Rydenfan. When the day comes that I fire up my modded TP and adore it you will be the first person thanked. I agree completely on the issue of waiting a bit before rolling. I was mostly using my post as an excuse to invite myself in to the MW club. :D
-Michael
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Question regarding tube matching. I bought a set of (3)each 6H30 DR's last year to put in my 36.5. It only uses two of those tubes. I have (1) single DR spare. I now own a MWI TP and am interested in exploring some of the tube rolling recommendations I have been reading here (ie using the 6H30DR's).
Do I need to look for a new "matched" pair of 6H30DR's? or just a new single tube to go with my spare 6H30? Is it desired that the two tubes are closely matched?
Thanks,
Kenreau
Just a bump - still looking for feedback on the potential need for matched output toobs for my TP.
Don't bother? Reasonable idea? Only if suffering from audiophile neurosis?
Anyone? Anyone?...
...the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act?
-Ben Stein, Economics Teacher in Ferris Bueller's Day Off
Anyone...Anyone?
Thx,
Kenreau
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Yes, the signal tubes should be matched, if possible of course, but I'll leave the best answer to Dan himself. The fact that you've got three NOS DR's..well, I'd think a fourth separate NOS DR would measure close enough. Used tubes? I'd make sure they're very closely matched.
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The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.
Thanks,
Dan
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The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.
Thanks,
Dan
D'oh! I was afraid of that. They were all reportedly NOS but I never had them measured and validated.
Thanks Dan & Ted!
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The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.
Thanks,
Dan
D'oh! I was afraid of that. They were all reportedly NOS but I never had them measured and validated.
Thanks Dan & Ted!
I would like to share what I have learned from one of Norway’s most knowledgeable tube salesmen. He has sold a lot of 6H30DR's, and of all the 6H30DR's he has tested and sold he has never found two tubes that were not a "match" - that is within 10% variation. The rigorous quality requirements and testing of these tubes in the production process ensures very homogenous tubes.
On the 6H30DR's that has passed all tests one should find two stamps (ink marks). One of the stamps is a civilian quality control. The other is a military quality control. A lot of the 6H30DR's that are being sold doesn't have these stamps - they haven't passed the controls - and should most likely never have found their way to the market. I have bought both types of tubes and can put up some pictures of the differences between the ones with the correct stamps and those without if it is of interest.
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Definitely interested in pics.
Thanks!
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The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.
Thanks,
Dan
D'oh! I was afraid of that. They were all reportedly NOS but I never had them measured and validated.
Thanks Dan & Ted!
I would like to share what I have learned from one of Norway’s most knowledgeable tube salesmen. He has sold a lot of 6H30DR's, and of all the 6H30DR's he has tested and sold he has never found two tubes that were not a "match" - that is within 10% variation. The rigorous quality requirements and testing of these tubes in the production process ensures very homogenous tubes.
On the 6H30DR's that has passed all tests one should find two stamps (ink marks). One of the stamps is a civilian quality control. The other is a military quality control. A lot of the 6H30DR's that are being sold doesn't have these stamps - they haven't passed the controls - and should most likely never have found their way to the market. I have bought both types of tubes and can put up some pictures of the differences between the ones with the correct stamps and those without if it is of interest.
Thanks for the heads up. Great information, please do post the photos as I suspect as the tubes get more popular and values rise, there will be some attempting to pass off the lesser quality non-DR tubes.
Thanks Thalvor!
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6H30DR's with and without stamps of quality control. Tube on left side with control stamps.
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thalvor/DSC_3030.jpg)
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thalvor/DSC_3031.jpg)
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I've purchase -DR tubes from Conus and Parts Connection. Both have the stamps, but they don't look exactly the same as the above pictures.
I've noticed that they are pretty well matched on my tube testers....but I have to kind of use the 6922 settings because there are not published settings for these tubes for tube testers.
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Has anyone experimented with tube dampers?? I was thinking about picking up some of the Herbie Dampers.
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Has anyone experimented with tube dampers?? I was thinking about picking up some of the Herbie Dampers.
I have a pair of Herbie Dampers that I used to use in my CDP and now use in my TP - very well made and a a great business to deal with. I honestly don't hear a difference with them though.
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I find that evey time I focus on an aspect of my system in some interventional way, I hear a brand new and improved sound.
Just removing the cover from a component or changing a power cord works well for this purpose.
That said, I have Herbies dampers on all of my tubes. I like them a lot.
In the end, it is whatever helps you to focus.
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I have some Herbie Dampers I used when i had the SWL 9.0 SE pre, but i felt they mellowed out an already mellow pre. Dan, at one point felt the same (i think), but not sure what thinks about them in the TP or 36.5. I had them on the MW TP when I first got it (pics in my gallery)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=12314)
but couldn't discern any difference. I may try again, though. :)
At one point Dan was going to try the red tube o-rings but not sure where that went.
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If anyone is interested, Parts Connexion has 10 pairs of Reflector DR tubes in stock as per their website. :drool: They processed my order so it is actually nine or less pairs now. Ten days ago I received the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate. My original plan was to try it in my Yamamoto 300B amp and then try it in the Transporter. I tried it in the Yamamoto and now I can't take out. The amount of improvement over the NOS Westinghouse 5U4G that was in my amp was significant. The frequency extremes are way more extended and there is a significant increase in bass. I have approximately 100 hours on the tube. Over the next week or so I will force myself to try it in the Transporter. I will let you know how it turns out. For those of you who own the LS 36.5 this may be a tube to consider if it is compatible.
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If anyone is interested, Parts Connexion has 10 pairs of Reflector DR tubes in stock as per their website. :drool: They processed my order so it is actually nine or less pairs now. Ten days ago I received the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate. My original plan was to try it in my Yamamoto 300B amp and then try it in the Transporter. I tried it in the Yamamoto and now I can't take out. The amount of improvement over the NOS Westinghouse 5U4G that was in my amp was significant. The frequency extremes are way more extended and there is a significant increase in bass. I have approximately 100 hours on the tube. Over the next week or so I will force myself to try it in the Transporter. I will let you know how it turns out. For those of you who own the LS 36.5 this may be a tube to consider if it is compatible.
After a long wait I finally got the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate too. I have only tried it out in the transporter for a couple of hours, but first impressions are VERY positive! I will come back with impressions on how it stacks up agains the mb gz34 and HW gz37 when it has settled. It is a very tall tube, which I think will preclude it from being used in the LS 36.5. Because of the height of the EML rectifier the transporter no longer fits into my rack and has to be placed on the top shelf.
Here's a pic of the EML in action:
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq154/thalvor/DSC_3034.jpg)
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That is a killer pic. Hope it sounds great.
-Michael
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That is a killer pic. Hope it sounds great.
-Michael
Couldn't agree more, it looks great. :drool:
Also it would be a real find if a new tube could equal or, even better, outperform the mb GZ34.
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If anyone is interested, Parts Connexion has 10 pairs of Reflector DR tubes in stock as per their website. :drool: They processed my order so it is actually nine or less pairs now. Ten days ago I received the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate. My original plan was to try it in my Yamamoto 300B amp and then try it in the Transporter. I tried it in the Yamamoto and now I can't take out. The amount of improvement over the NOS Westinghouse 5U4G that was in my amp was significant. The frequency extremes are way more extended and there is a significant increase in bass. I have approximately 100 hours on the tube. Over the next week or so I will force myself to try it in the Transporter. I will let you know how it turns out. For those of you who own the LS 36.5 this may be a tube to consider if it is compatible.
I received an e-mail from Parts Connexion today stating that the Reflector DR tubes are on order with no ETA. They have none in stock. I apologize for posting the incorrect information yesterday.
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thalvor, I noticed this on the Emission Labs site about the tube you have:
"There is common misunderstanding that 5U4G and 5U4GB is the same. However the 5U4GB is a version, with lower internal resistance and higher peak current is allowed. The GB version is not the same tube as the G Version. Replacing 5U4G with 5U4GB may result in higher rectified voltage, so should never be done. Replacing 5U4GB with 5U4G may result in lower rectified voltage, and may result in damage of the 5U4G rectifier."
Is it ok to use this tube in the Transporter? My MW Transporter came stock with an RCA 5U4GB.
Just wondering ;)
Tony
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thalvor, I noticed this on the Emission Labs site about the tube you have:
"There is common misunderstanding that 5U4G and 5U4GB is the same. However the 5U4GB is a version, with lower internal resistance and higher peak current is allowed. The GB version is not the same tube as the G Version. Replacing 5U4G with 5U4GB may result in higher rectified voltage, so should never be done. Replacing 5U4GB with 5U4G may result in lower rectified voltage, and may result in damage of the 5U4G rectifier."
Is it ok to use this tube in the Transporter? My MW Transporter came stock with an RCA 5U4GB.
Just wondering ;)
Tony
I asked Dan about this before buying the tube and he said it was fine to use the 5U4G in the transporter.
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Tony,
If you'll peruse this thread you'll see, with rectifiers, that we roll (5U4)G's and GB's all the time. Also 5AR4's, GZ32's, GZ37's (especially the highly vaunted and expensive High Wycombe GZ37), an occasional GZ33 and then variations on all these (brand, base style, etc.) To oversimplify, the favorites out there are the high-dollar metal base 5AR4 and the High Wycombe Gz37, along with the value faves like the Tung Sol 5U4GB. This new modern entry, the expensive (and huge) Czech-based Emission Labs has the potential to supplant the mb and HW as the cream of the crop. As in all tube rolling cases, YMMV...and we hope it does. :D
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Ted, how about a pair of the Emissions Labs 5U4's as the tube in the PS???
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Tony,
If you'll peruse this thread you'll see, with rectifiers, that we roll (5U4)G's and GB's all the time. Also 5AR4's, GZ32's, GZ37's (especially the highly vaunted and expensive High Wycombe GZ37), an occasional GZ33 and then variations on all these (brand, base style, etc.) To oversimplify, the favorites out there are the high-dollar metal base 5AR4 and the High Wycombe Gz37, along with the value faves like the Tung Sol 5U4GB. This new modern entry, the expensive (and huge) Czech-based Emission Labs has the potential to supplant the mb and HW as the cream of the crop. As in all tube rolling cases, YMMV...and we hope it does. :D
thanks ;)
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Tony,
If you'll peruse this thread you'll see, with rectifiers, that we roll (5U4)G's and GB's all the time. Also 5AR4's, GZ32's, GZ37's (especially the highly vaunted and expensive High Wycombe GZ37), an occasional GZ33 and then variations on all these (brand, base style, etc.) To oversimplify, the favorites out there are the high-dollar metal base 5AR4 and the High Wycombe Gz37, along with the value faves like the Tung Sol 5U4GB. This new modern entry, the expensive (and huge) Czech-based Emission Labs has the potential to supplant the mb and HW as the cream of the crop. As in all tube rolling cases, YMMV...and we hope it does. :D
With NOS MBGZ34's going for $600 the Emission Labs 5U4G could represent a relative bargain at just over $200 - it will be interesting to get the feedback in how it sounds.
As an aside I did research what's coming out of the new 'Blackburn' company and it doesn't look like a new GZ34 is on the horizon, I may give them a direct call to clarify this - after all we have the same accent :roll:
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Ted, how about a pair of the Emissions Labs 5U4's as the tube in the PS???
That would likely be VERY cool. 8)
and a few bucks..........
and take up almost an entire rack height :lol:
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In a review of a tube amp and some tubes here is a quote I found from Srjan at 6moons on the Emission Lab tube
" For drive and low-end control, the huge EML 5U4G rectifier is the ticket. "
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Have any TP owners experimented with placing a Shakti Stone on the TP? Thinking about trying one out and I was curious if anyone else already had.
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Do any of you guys have any new opinions about tubes for the updated Transporter (Turbo/hyper-warp drive version)? Dan has mine right now and I will be moving the Mullard gz34 (1961 black "fat base") into my 36.5 by the time it gets back. For now the RCA clear tops will stay in the TP. Has anyone rolled anything yet? Or are you guys sticking with what you had in place before the upgrade?
I wanted some opinions before I plop down a hefty sum for a new rectifier tube.
Thanks.
-Greg
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Do any of you guys have any new opinions about tubes for the updated Transporter (Turbo/hyper-warp drive version)? Dan has mine right now and I will be moving the Mullard gz34 (1961 black "fat base") into my 36.5 by the time it gets back. For now the RCA clear tops will stay in the TP. Has anyone rolled anything yet? Or are you guys sticking with what you had in place before the upgrade?
I wanted some opinions before I plop down a hefty sum for a new rectifier tube.
Thanks.
-Greg
Funk the new mod is a pretty profound change. I would recommend not spending any money on tubes for awhile. You should have your new speakers soon. You may have to start from scratch with tube rolling once your speakers arrive. I say hold off till the mod and your speakers break-in and then go from there.
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Have any TP owners experimented with placing a Shakti Stone on the TP? Thinking about trying one out and I was curious if anyone else already had.
Yes, I've had a Shakti Stone on the left side (over the PS) for some months now; it was a significant improvement in background noise reduction and overall blackness, as well as a perceived gain in resolution.
Greg,
I've commented a bit about the mod and it's SIGNIFICANT change in tube rolling on the mod thread, but to summarize:
* mod adds significant weight and overall solidity to the sound; it blew my DR's out of the TP though...too much of a good thing with them being also in the 36.5.
* I've now settled on some Emerson (RCA) black plate 6CG7's and love the sound. The Raytheon black plates are close but a bit too forward. The mod tends to move you up several rows.
* I've left the metal base in as rectifier. Anything else is a compromise for me.
Net/net, listen to David. He is spot on regarding leaving well enough alone and enjoying the mod before you add too many variables.
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Thanks guys,
I fully plan on waiting, just curious if the mod was taking you guys in a different direction (tube wise).
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Do any of you guys have any new opinions about tubes for the updated Transporter (Turbo/hyper-warp drive version)? Dan has mine right now and I will be moving the Mullard gz34 (1961 black "fat base") into my 36.5 by the time it gets back. For now the RCA clear tops will stay in the TP. Has anyone rolled anything yet? Or are you guys sticking with what you had in place before the upgrade?
I wanted some opinions before I plop down a hefty sum for a new rectifier tube.
Thanks.
-Greg
I agree with Ted/David - and hang tight until you get it back after the mod.
My initial feel is that the mod does level the playing field with tubes, but I would prefer to hold judgment for a little longer on this.
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After a long wait I finally got the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate too. I have only tried it out in the transporter for a couple of hours, but first impressions are VERY positive! I will come back with impressions on how it stacks up agains the mb gz34 and HW gz37 when it has settled. It is a very tall tube, which I think will preclude it from being used in the LS 36.5. Because of the height of the EML rectifier the transporter no longer fits into my rack and has to be placed on the top shelf.
Thalvor, any news on the performance of the EML Mesh 5U4G vs. the mb gz34?
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After a long wait I finally got the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate too. I have only tried it out in the transporter for a couple of hours, but first impressions are VERY positive! I will come back with impressions on how it stacks up agains the mb gz34 and HW gz37 when it has settled. It is a very tall tube, which I think will preclude it from being used in the LS 36.5. Because of the height of the EML rectifier the transporter no longer fits into my rack and has to be placed on the top shelf.
Thalvor, any news on the performance of the EML Mesh 5U4G vs. the mb gz34?
Jwes, I have been comparing the EML Mesh 5U4G and the mb gz34 and I have written a very favorable mini-review of the EML rectifier. But before I put it up here I wanted to have one more good round of listening just to double-check my findings. I have however been so caught up in family matters lately I haven't had time to do this final round of listening, but I hope to make time for it soon and have it posted in a couple of days.
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Hi Thalvor,
Well, I appreciate that you are doing this to help us all out here, and certainly hope your family matters are o.k.!
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You guys might like to try the GZ32 in the TP if you have one laying around - didn't excel in the TP before the mod upgrade, but sounds completely different following the turbo mod.
Phil, which GZ32 do you have? I currently own a brown based millitary Mullard version which is the CV593. I know rpf has a black base that he likes a lot.
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and mine is a Philips Holland.
My Sistrum 6 tier rack shows up today so i'll probably hold off on the rectifier swap until the rack is installed and settled, and I get a feel for the baseline sound.
Note: these comments are coming from Phil, David and my comments over on the PS 36.5 tube roll thread about my wonderful discovery that my dual metal bases work and sound glorious in the PS 36.5, as does the subsequent swap to a Tung Sol 5U4GB in the TP now. David moved Phil's comment here cuz we're now talking TP. :)
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I always pictued Ted would have a NICE RACK :rotflmao:
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If I gain any more lbs I will!!! :cry:
You are one sick boy!!
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/nicholsonDM0302_468x436.jpg)
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You guys might like to try the GZ32 in the TP if you have one laying around - didn't excel in the TP before the mod upgrade, but sounds completely different following the turbo mod.
Phil, which GZ32 do you have? I currently own a brown based millitary Mullard version which is the CV593. I know rpf has a black base that he likes a lot.
I'm out of town David so don't have the GZ32 @ hand, but believe el presedente and I have the same tube - Phillps 1967?
It's a rectifier tube that I considered good but inferior to the mb GZ34, with the turbomod it now sounds very good. With you guys trying different combos with the 36.5 I was curious if you'd tried it?
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Ted, can you save me looking through 20 pages of posts and tell me what the difference in sound is between the Tung Sol 5U4G and 5U4GB is?
David, the offer to try a black base Philips/Mullard GZ32 is still open whenever you want it.
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Ted, can you save me looking through 20 pages of posts and tell me what the difference in sound is between the Tung Sol 5U4G and 5U4GB is?
The final "B" sound. :D
I find that the GB has more depth and yet seems more weighty too....more "there there". The taller bottle-style G is slightly less robust, but both provide tons of air or space between instruments. My $.02
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:lol: Thanks.
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David, the offer to try a black base Philips/Mullard GZ32 is still open whenever you want it.
Thanks Rob! I am first going to let the turbo-mod settle in. I will drop you a line soon about it. Are you still using one in your 36.5?
And in the very near future my 36.5 is going to double in size :o
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No, I actually prefer the 5AR4 in the 36.5, while alternating the GZ32 with the GZ37 in the 9100.
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No, I actually prefer the 5AR4 in the 36.5, while alternating the GZ32 with the GZ37 in the 9100.
Come on Rob, time to join the digital age and get a Transporter :wink:
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No, I actually prefer the 5AR4 in the 36.5, while alternating the GZ32 with the GZ37 in the 9100.
Come on Rob, time to join the digital age and get a Transporter :wink:
:lol: Soon. I hope. I have to find the time to figure out what hardware to use, how to set it up, and then load around 3500 CDs. :roll:
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In order to make sure I wasn't fooling myself due to the newness-excitement factor I have intentionally delayed this little review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh rectifier for a while, making room for more listening sessions to confirm my impressions.
This mini-review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate is done by comparing it mainly to a metal base gz34 phillips miniwatt. I wanted also to do a systematic comparison with the High Wycombe gz 37 as well, but found that it became too much to too keep the sound signature of three tubes in mind while rolling them. I could of course have compared the gz34 and the EML first and then done the EML and gz37, but I think a systematic comparison between the EML and the gz37 will have to wait for some other time. The comments on the rectifiers are based on the 6H30DR's as drivers. This is significant because the strengths of one rectifier over another only reflects how good the match is with a particular set of driver tubes.
What creates the tube sound? My, maybe somewhat controversial claim is that one important ingredient is a slight smudging (in lack of a better word) of tones. Measurements does in general reveal higher levels of harmonic distortion in tube gear than in solid state. If this smudging effect is due to the specific second order harmonic distortion created by tubes or something else I don't know, but the effect is definitely there. In some tubes this smudging affects the whole frequency specter. In other tubes this smudging seems to affect only lower frequencies. Some tubes seem to display very little of this smudging which makes the sound of the tube closer to what one typically could expect from solid state gear. Other tubes have a much more pronounced smudging effect, creating a very sweet and warm "tubey" sound. The tube is then often less dynamic and details are a bit muffled. So one could say that tubes can be placed on a a scale from the very dry, ss-like, to the sweet end with tubes producing a strong "tubey" sound. The EML tube is leaning more to the neutral end of the scale than the mb gz34, but it does this without losing the tube "magic".
So why do I prefer to listen to tube gear when solid state can reproduce music with less distortion than my tube gear? What is the tube "magic"? To me the tubesound is more natural. It produces a sense of acoustic space that I have yet to hear from SS. It produces a more full-bodied musical presentation and it produces less listening fatigue than SS.
Because tube characteristics vary to a large degree, combining tubes is not straight forward. As several here has commented doubling up of a good driver tube in e.g both preamp and transporter may not be a immediate success. For example both the RCA cleartops and the 6H30DR's leans toward the sweet end of the scale, though with much bottom-end energy. Doubling up of them in both preamp and transporter may result in a sound that floats out and loses its focus, especially in the bottom end where these tubes individually are strong. The sound becomes "overcooked".
The same applies for combining rectifiers with drivers as well. In combination with the 6H30DR's I felt that the sound of the mb gz34 on certain recordings became "overcooked". This has not been a problem with the EML rectifier. It is a tube with better transparency in general than both the mb gz34 and HW gz37. This may be partly because it doesn't have the mid-bass hump of the mb gz34 (or the slightly recessed upper-bass of the gz37), but in addition to this it sounds to be in more control. The definition is in general a little better. The details comes through better. While it is maybe not quite as punchy as the gz34, it still a a very dynamic tube. But because the dynamics is not especially pronounced in any one frequency area it comes across as more relaxed than the gz34.
As for sound-staging it is in this department the EML most clearly outperforms the mb gz34. The huge EML sports a XXL soundstage with better height, width and depth than the mb gz34. Partly this may be due to its transparency revealing more spatial cues, but I don't think this is the whole explanation to the magnificent soundstage of this tube.
Congratulations to those of you thay already have Dan's new mod in place in the transporter! I see that the mod has led to new rounds of tube-rolling for some of you. Maybe the EML with it's control and clarity is what you are looking for. At least in my rig, and in combination with the 6H30DR's the EML produces the best sound thus far.
For me the EML has turned out to be a very good investment and is now the permanent stable mate with the 6H30DR's. Other driver tubes may, however, demand something else from their stable mate.
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Thomas,
What a great review, and review style! I love it. In fact, you have crystalized the genre-definitions that I've been mulling in my head. It almost seems like we could take, say, the five or six characteristics (soundstaging, bass, mid, treble, dynamics, etc.?) and have a scale, either side of neutral, that explains their footprint in each. Then the synergy of combining becomes a little more mathematic or visual.
Do you have the turbo-mod? If not, it will be interesting what that does to the synergy and the EL placement.
What is the tube complement down stream, if any (preamp, power amp)? Thx
Ted
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Thomas,
I have to echo Ted - really well done review. Mine is off to the magical land of Amboy, WA for the turbo/bybee mods. I need to let that settle and see how it goes, but then may certainly play with this! How much is that - in the $200 range?
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Thor, great review! Very interesting :thumb:
However, I do have to say that I differ from you on your views of the rca cleartop 6CG7's and the 6H30 DR's sounding very similar. I find the DR's to be much more full bodied sounding with a nice increase in bass. I find the cleartop 6CG7's to not impart much sonic signature and be very detailed and transparent. Of course YMMV.
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In order to make sure I wasn't fooling myself due to the newness-excitement factor I have intentionally delayed this little review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh rectifier for a while, making room for more listening sessions to confirm my impressions.
This mini-review of the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate is done by comparing it mainly to a metal base gz34 phillips miniwatt. I wanted also to do a systematic comparison with the High Wycombe gz 37 as well, but found that it became too much to too keep the sound signature of three tubes in mind while rolling them. I could of course have compared the gz34 and the EML first and then done the EML and gz37, but I think a systematic comparison between the EML and the gz37 will have to wait for some other time. The comments on the rectifiers are based on the 6H30DR's as drivers. This is significant because the strengths of one rectifier over another only reflects how good the match is with a particular set of driver tubes.
What creates the tube sound? My, maybe somewhat controversial claim is that one important ingredient is a slight smudging (in lack of a better word) of tones. Measurements does in general reveal higher levels of harmonic distortion in tube gear than in solid state. If this smudging effect is due to the specific second order harmonic distortion created by tubes or something else I don't know, but the effect is definitely there. In some tubes this smudging affects the whole frequency specter. In other tubes this smudging seems to affect only lower frequencies. Some tubes seem to display very little of this smudging which makes the sound of the tube closer to what one typically could expect from solid state gear. Other tubes have a much more pronounced smudging effect, creating a very sweet and warm "tubey" sound. The tube is then often less dynamic and details are a bit muffled. So one could say that tubes can be placed on a a scale from the very dry, ss-like, to the sweet end with tubes producing a strong "tubey" sound. The EML tube is leaning more to the neutral end of the scale than the mb gz34, but it does this without losing the tube "magic".
So why do I prefer to listen to tube gear when solid state can reproduce music with less distortion than my tube gear? What is the tube "magic"? To me the tubesound is more natural. It produces a sense of acoustic space that I have yet to hear from SS. It produces a more full-bodied musical presentation and it produces less listening fatigue than SS.
Because tube characteristics vary to a large degree, combining tubes is not straight forward. As several here has commented doubling up of a good driver tube in e.g both preamp and transporter may not be a immediate success. For example both the RCA cleartops and the 6H30DR's leans toward the sweet end of the scale, though with much bottom-end energy. Doubling up of them in both preamp and transporter may result in a sound that floats out and loses its focus, especially in the bottom end where these tubes individually are strong. The sound becomes "overcooked".
The same applies for combining rectifiers with drivers as well. In combination with the 6H30DR's I felt that the sound of the mb gz34 on certain recordings became "overcooked". This has not been a problem with the EML rectifier. It is a tube with better transparency in general than both the mb gz34 and HW gz37. This may be partly because it doesn't have the mid-bass hump of the mb gz34 (or the slightly recessed upper-bass of the gz37), but in addition to this it sounds to be in more control. The definition is in general a little better. The details comes through better. While it is maybe not quite as punchy as the gz34, it still a a very dynamic tube. But because the dynamics is not especially pronounced in any one frequency area it comes across as more relaxed than the gz34.
As for sound-staging it is in this department the EML most clearly outperforms the mb gz34. The huge EML sports a XXL soundstage with better height, width and depth than the mb gz34. Partly this may be due to its transparency revealing more spatial cues, but I don't think this is the whole explanation to the magnificent soundstage of this tube.
Congratulations to those of you thay already have Dan's new mod in place in the transporter! I see that the mod has led to new rounds of tube-rolling for some of you. Maybe the EML with it's control and clarity is what you are looking for. At least in my rig, and in combination with the 6H30DR's the EML produces the best sound thus far.
For me the EML has turned out to be a very good investment and is now the permanent stable mate with the 6H30DR's. Other driver tubes may, however, demand something else from their stable mate.
Great review! Just to clarify, have you had the turbomod upgrade already? I was going to have the mod done but my system sounds so good right now that I am almost afraid to change anything. I have settled on a fairly inexpensive tube set and I really don't want to mess with a good thing.
Thanks!
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Just my $0.02 here. The mod will not likely change your tube choice. It may, but I expect that the improvements in the mod will only significantly heighten the enjoyment that you are currently enjoying.
The effects of the mod are clear:
GREATLY improved dual-discrete voltage regulation improves separation, soundstage and improves midrange, low level detail and overall information retrieval. The Bybee upgrade makes for a blacker background and lower noise floor which allows even more inner detail through as well as improves decay and the subtle aural cues that make you feel like you are at the live event.
Just wanted to share what I feel the benefits of this upgrade are.
Great review and I am now tempted to order this new rectifier also.
Sincerely,
Dan W.
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Dan, just convince Ted to order two for his PS and then we can try them :lol:
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Just my $0.02 here. The mod will not likely change your tube choice. It may, but I expect that the improvements in the mod will only significantly heighten the enjoyment that you are currently enjoying.
The effects of the mod are clear:
GREATLY improved dual-discrete voltage regulation improves separation, soundstage and improves midrange, low level detail and overall information retrieval. The Bybee upgrade makes for a blacker background and lower noise floor which allows even more inner detail through as well as improves decay and the subtle aural cues that make you feel like you are at the live event.
Just wanted to share what I feel the benefits of this upgrade are.
Great review and I am now tempted to order this new rectifier also.
Sincerely,
Dan W.
Thanks for that input Dan.
I look forward to having my unit upgraded in early December and it was great talking with you the other day.
George
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I've just got back from a business trip and read Thomas' review of the Emission Labs rectifier tube - with mb GZ34's becoming scarcer and more expensive it's great that an alternative has been found that is less expensive and potentially superior.
This goes on my list to the guy with the red suit and white beard aa
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I partially agree with Dan, at least in my system. The mod definitely starts to level the playing field for some tubes. To me the wild differences in recitifiers becomes much more subtle....but it's still there. The signal tube rolling still has a pretty strong effect, but changing from DR's (they clearly overcook with the other pair on the 36.5) to Raytheon 6CG7's is less of a drastic move than before...but it's still there, and moreso than the level playing field that the rectifiers are now on.
I spent last night and tonight rolling (tubes) like crazy. I swapped signal tubes in the 36.5 (not an option IMO; everything but 6H30 types produced noise), rectifiers in the PS, and of course both types in the TP (Philips GZ32, Sylvania GB, Tung Sol G and GB, TAD 5AR4, etc etc.).....and keep coming back to the post-upgrade baseline:
a pair of metal base GZ34's in 36.5, along with pair of 6H30 DR's
a pair of Raytheon black plate 6CG7's, along with a Tung Sol 5U4GB in the TP.
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Ted, what is the country of origin for your Raytheon 6CG7's?
I have several brands of the 6CG7 including RCA blackplate and cleartops, Tung-Sol, and Sylvania. All sound very good with a slight preference for the Sylvanias. I measured around an 8dB increase with these over the 6H30-DR's and find them spending more and more time in my yet to be modded MWTP.
In rectifier land, the MB GZ34 is hard to beat but I'll be giving the EM 5U4G mesh plates a step up to the plate as soon as my mods are completed in December.
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Ted, what is the country of origin for your Raytheon 6CG7's?
My Raytheon black plates (which i had more than a pair) are made in USA
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17073) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17072)
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Thanks for all the nice feedback on my EML review! Glad you liked it :-)
Several have asked if I have the turbo mod. I don't, but I sure would like to have it some day. Right now I'm not willing to part with my transporter long enough to have it upgraded. It takes a bit longer to have it upgraded for me (in Norway) than it does for you guys in the US. Maybe I'll send it off in the spring when my required daily dose of music is smaller than right now when winter is setting in.
I'll be very interested in hearing experiences with the EML from you with the turbo-mod.
Ted, my downstream tube components are a EAR Yoshino 868 (pre) and a EAR Yoshino 890 (power amp). I have rolled the stock driver tube in the pre to a Mullard 6922, while in the power amp it is eight EI KT90 tubes which are the stock tubes. The KT88 is a drop-in replacement for the KT90, but the KT90 produces more power.
Jwes, yes the EML cost me 164 Euro which translate to about 200 USD I think.
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I partially agree with Dan, at least in my system. The mod definitely starts to level the playing field for some tubes. To me the wild differences in recitifiers becomes much more subtle....but it's still there. The signal tube rolling still has a pretty strong effect, but changing from DR's (they clearly overcook with the other pair on the 36.5) to Raytheon 6CG7's is less of a drastic move than before...but it's still there, and moreso than the level playing field that the rectifiers are now on.
I spent last night and tonight rolling (tubes) like crazy. I swapped signal tubes in the 36.5 (not an option IMO; everything but 6H30 types produced noise), rectifiers in the PS, and of course both types in the TP (Philips GZ32, Sylvania GB, Tung Sol G and GB, TAD 5AR4, etc etc.).....and keep coming back to the post-upgrade baseline:
a pair of metal base GZ34's in 36.5, along with pair of 6H30 DR's
a pair of Raytheon black plate 6CG7's, along with a Tung Sol 5U4GB in the TP.
Ted - ever tried 6BQ7A's in the TP?
I'm currently warming up a pair of RCA 6CG7's in the TP and find them to be very similar to the 6B's.
My 6BQ7A's are the cryoed RCA black plates from TubeWorld.
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Phil,
Yes, they are on the top three or four of my list (I have RCA 6BQ7A black plates) and have huge gain. They seem like 3db louder, really.
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Phil, I have the same tubes from tubeworld and in my system I very much prefer the rca cleartop 6CG7's. I find they have better tope end detail and resolution.
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Emission Labs 5U4G
What do you guys think about a group Modwright buy for this tube?
There are a couple of vendors here in the US - Tubes USA & Roger Modjeski at Music Reference. With Roger being an AC member he might be more open to support this?
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Emission Labs 5U4G
What do you guys think about a group Modwright buy for this tube?
There are a couple of vendors here in the US - Tubes USA & Roger Modjeski at Music Reference. With Roger being an AC member he might be more open to support this?
See what you can work out and let me know.
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Phil, I have the same tubes from tubeworld and in my system I very much prefer the rca cleartop 6CG7's. I find they have better tope end detail and resolution.
Hmmm...maybe that is why my pair hasn't even made it into the TP? :scratch:
I trust you guys and in the box they will stay.
George
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Emission Labs 5U4G
What do you guys think about a group Modwright buy for this tube?
There are a couple of vendors here in the US - Tubes USA & Roger Modjeski at Music Reference. With Roger being an AC member he might be more open to support this?
See what you can work out and let me know.
Maybe we go three or fourway on ONE, and then pass it around until we decide. Don't listen to me, though. I speak as someone who feels like crap right now (fighting a three week old damn sinus infection and the just-as-bad antibiotics and prednizone that goes with finally going to the doc this week) so maybe I'm just woosing out. I have found a very nice sound, still very open to experimentation, but am not up for a $200+ experiment right now.......ok, ok... I'm cranky. :cry:
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Emission Labs 5U4G
What do you guys think about a group Modwright buy for this tube?
There are a couple of vendors here in the US - Tubes USA & Roger Modjeski at Music Reference. With Roger being an AC member he might be more open to support this?
See what you can work out and let me know.
Maybe we go three or fourway on ONE, and then pass it around until we decide. Don't listen to me, though. I speak as someone who feels like crap right now (fighting a three week old damn sinus infection and the just-as-bad antibiotics and prednizone that goes with finally going to the doc this week) so maybe I'm just woosing out. I have found a very nice sound, still very open to experimentation, but am not up for a $200+ experiment right now.......ok, ok... I'm cranky. :cry:
I agree with you, Ted. I actually sent you an email a few hours ago seeing if you want to split one and share it? I think this is a good idea.
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DK, oops missed it. Thanks. Now we have Phil in the mix, too, maybe.
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DK, oops missed it. Thanks. Now we have Phil in the mix, too, maybe.
I'll play.
George
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DK, oops missed it. Thanks. Now we have Phil in the mix, too, maybe.
I'll play.
George
I'll get moving on this.
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I am thinking about a pair (EL 5U4G) for my 36.5+.
Are you guys only talking about a single tube for to pass around or a group purchase?
I'd be interested in the group thing.
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Interest in the group thing here too...
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if we get a good discount for a group thing, you could count me in too.
My TP is "platinum" Truth now (Hyper drive + Bybees) and should be on it's way home tomorrow!!!
:thumb: WhooHoo!!!!!
Thanks Dan
In a few weeks I will be ready to roll.
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if we get a good discount for a group thing, you could count me in too.
My TP is "platinum" Truth now (Hyper drive + Bybees) and should be on it's way home tomorrow!!!
:thumb: WhooHoo!!!!!
Thanks Dan
In a few weeks I will be ready to roll.
Same here (on both TP "Platinum" and interest in the group tube approach). Well, I won't have the TP quite as soon, but it's there!!
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Emission Labs 5U4G
I made contact with the two US vendors yesterday - one has already posted on the forum. I lived in Germany for 7 years so have complete comfort in exploring European options if necessary.
I'll float a few ideas to the two here in the US first, and get back with an update.
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Emission Labs 5U4G
I made contact with the two US vendors yesterday - one has already posted on the forum. I lived in Germany for 7 years so have complete comfort in exploring European options if necessary.
I'll float a few ideas to the two here in the US first, and get back with an update.
Thank you.
George
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Emission Labs 5U4G
What do you guys think about a group Modwright buy for this tube?
There are a couple of vendors here in the US - Tubes USA & Roger Modjeski at Music Reference. With Roger being an AC member he might be more open to support this?
I'd be interested too.
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I just got back from a little adventure... I saw an ad on craigslist from a guy who was unloading a couple hundred vintage tubes, he posted a couple of pics of the lot and i swear I saw a metal base 5AR4/GZ34 or two in there... it took me a few days to get over there and turns out there had been a few guys that beat me to the punch. No GZ34, no anything I could use, except for 1 tube. A big bottle (ST shape) 5U4G from Rogers Canada, date code REL R(inside a maple leaf). The guy felt bad that I drove all the way over there and he didn't have anything else that I could use so he gave me the 5U4G (consolation prize, I guess :thumb:) He had no clue about tubes, even more so than me. :wink:
Anyone ever hear of Rogers? (Googling didn't turn up much)
The tube is in great physical shape, everything is solid and clean (now that I wiped the dust off) but i have no means of testing it. Is there any caution about rolling it into my Transporter for a listen?
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Hi guys,
My very first post on AC, although I’ve lurked for a long time…. I thought some may be interested in my tube rolling experience…. sorry about the length. A special hello to my fellow compatriot Philistine.
I’ve had my beloved MWT for some time now and being relatively new to tubes, kept the stockers for much of this year…. a naive mistake, as I didn’t realize I was giving up so much performance. I found out the stock signal tubes are not too bad, but the basic RCA rectifier only just about makes this thing work…. but not much more…. I always thought some of the music was missing…?
Signal tubes:
I’ve tried the stockers, 6N6P’s and the DR’s.
I found the 6N6P’s were an upgrade from the stockers, sounding quite natural and detailed, if a little bright and lightweight sounding…. good value for money though.
The DR’s overall sounded the best having more body/weight and less glare…. although they do give up a little on transparency and detail. In my system, I also believe they have a very slight overall coloration to them that the other tubes don’t; its difficult to define…. maybe a light watercolor wash of blue/grey…?
Rectifiers:
To try and keep a level playing field, I ordered three pretty NOS Mullard Blackburn’s from the early 60’s…. a GZ34, GZ32 and a GZ37. Two black bases and a brown on the GZ37.
The GZ34 sounded “nice” with good tone, better bass weight and HF extension and much more detail than the stocker…. no comparison in performance; as this was my first rectifier change, I was quite shocked at the difference.
I next tried the GZ32 and found it was even more extended at both ends with more detail/texture and much more holographic than the somewhat two dimensional GZ34…. but unfortunately, it was a little bright in the midrange.
The GZ37 was next and fast became my favorite of the three. It had similar extension at both ends to the GZ32, but improved again in detail with a slightly more holographic 3D soundstage, but a darker perspective. It was nice and neutral in the midrange, but unfortunately did have a slightly lean upper bass.
So…. all very nice tubes and a massive upgrade over the stockers… but still a little compromised.
Enter the EML 5U4G mesh plate. The build quality of this massive tube is flawless and in a completely different class to any other tube I’ve seen…. perceived value is very high; it’s a thing of beauty. I haven’t run this tube for more than around 70 hours yet, but it sounds quite significantly “different” to all the other tubes…. great straight out the box, but appears to be getting slightly more refined with more use.
In conjunction with the DR’s, the first thing that hit me was the soundstage…. I’ve never witnessed such extreme pinpoint imaging before inside a bigger field. Detail, tone and texture is better than all the other tubes with much greater depth perspective and smoothness. Something that took a little getting used to…. the lead singer is presented a little further forward, but the other instruments/backing are much further back; I guess more extreme positional contrast is what I’m talking about. Overall, the clarity is much improved, with the total detail of any instrument/vocalists being available simply by light focus. Another thing this tube does very well is great emphasis on the pace and timing cues…. very musical and foot tapping. Overall, this tube has the best qualities of all the others with none of their shortfalls and significantly improves in many other areas.
So, I’ve ended my search for rectifiers with this EML beauty…. I haven’t compared the MB34 or HW37, but can’t imagine they are better value than this tube? I am extremely happy with the sound of this thing and the system no longer feels compromised to me. Maybe a little gain in transparency could be achieved with different signal tubes as the EML is much smoother, but I tried the 6N6P’s again and it was cleaner, but I lost a little of the pinpoint imaging…. once you’ve had it, its difficult to go back! Sorry if this sounds like an EML advertisement, but I’m really quite excited about the improvement it’s bought to my system…. even my girlfriend instantly noticed the obvious improvement rather than me having to point it out…. you know how that goes…! I believe the turbo bybee is next after Xmas, from what all you guys have said...?
Incidentally, I have absolutely no affiliation or relationship, but my first dealings with George from tubesUSA was a complete pleasure…. great customer service.
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Owenmd,
As President of the Modwright Transporter Tube Rollers Association (MTTRA...we must get a better frickin name) I welcome you with open arms. Great review and post. The EMM mesh plate 5U4G is very quickly becoming a legend! I gotta have one!!! :green:
Nice first post! :thumb:
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Great review owenmd, thanks. Any luck, or new info on a group buy of the EML 5U4G? I am sold... I think it will barely fit on the shelf my Transporter sits on... That thing is HUGE! 6.9 inches tall!!!!
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Great review owenmd, thanks. Any luck, or new info on a group buy of the EML 5U4G? I am sold... I think it will barely fit on the shelf my Transporter sits on... That thing is HUGE! 6.9 inches tall!!!!
Still working on the EML 5U4G, watch this space.
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Thanks Phil... I am rapt.
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That thing is HUGE! 6.9 inches tall!!!!
That's what she said... :o (quoting Michael Scott from The Office). You know someone had to hit that soft ball...
Great work folks! I really like the potential of this tube. My TP is currently in at the new, way cool, ultra zoot and brightly lit Modwright Factory/HQ for the PS upgrade and I'm making plans to upgrade this rectifier tube after I get it back.
A concern though is it may not fit in my current shelf / head room space. Is the 6.9" the overall height of just the tube? any estimates of how much vertical space should be allowed for when mounted in the TP?
Thanks,
Kenreau
Thanks
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6.9" is the height of tube + base (from Emission Labs web site)... my guess is another inch for the TP? drat that would make it too tall for my space!!!! :duh: maybe it won't fit after all. Would one of you guys (that has one in their Transporter) grab a tape measure and let us know how tall it is from shelf to top of tube?
My TP should be back home tomorrow, fully platinum-turbo-fied! And my HT3s will be here pretty soon, hopefully!
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Thank you for the very warm welcome Ted.... much appreciated.
From the top of the tube to the top of the Transporter case measures around 5 7/8"..... just under 6".
All the best,
Mark
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Thanks Mark.
5-7/8" + 3"(Transporter)= 8-7/8" plus breathing room!
I need 10-ish inches of vertical space (min) to accommodate the EML? Ginormous!
I might have to re-think here. Too tall to fit in the 7" spot I made for the TP. If what the Beta testers are saying is true about the new mod, I may have to pass altogether, on the EML... I gotta stew on this a bit more. That won't even fit in the space I made for the 36.5, if I were to swap spots. Definitely something to consider.
Thanks again Mark.
Cheers,
Greg
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Hi guys,
My very first post on AC, although I’ve lurked for a long time…. I thought some may be interested in my tube rolling experience…. sorry about the length. A special hello to my fellow compatriot Philistine.
I’ve had my beloved MWT for some time now and being relatively new to tubes, kept the stockers for much of this year…. a naive mistake, as I didn’t realize I was giving up so much performance. I found out the stock signal tubes are not too bad, but the basic RCA rectifier only just about makes this thing work…. but not much more…. I always thought some of the music was missing…?
Signal tubes:
I’ve tried the stockers, 6N6P’s and the DR’s.
I found the 6N6P’s were an upgrade from the stockers, sounding quite natural and detailed, if a little bright and lightweight sounding…. good value for money though.
The DR’s overall sounded the best having more body/weight and less glare…. although they do give up a little on transparency and detail. In my system, I also believe they have a very slight overall coloration to them that the other tubes don’t; its difficult to define…. maybe a light watercolor wash of blue/grey…?
Rectifiers:
To try and keep a level playing field, I ordered three pretty NOS Mullard Blackburn’s from the early 60’s…. a GZ34, GZ32 and a GZ37. Two black bases and a brown on the GZ37.
The GZ34 sounded “nice” with good tone, better bass weight and HF extension and much more detail than the stocker…. no comparison in performance; as this was my first rectifier change, I was quite shocked at the difference.
I next tried the GZ32 and found it was even more extended at both ends with more detail/texture and much more holographic than the somewhat two dimensional GZ34…. but unfortunately, it was a little bright in the midrange.
The GZ37 was next and fast became my favorite of the three. It had similar extension at both ends to the GZ32, but improved again in detail with a slightly more holographic 3D soundstage, but a darker perspective. It was nice and neutral in the midrange, but unfortunately did have a slightly lean upper bass.
So…. all very nice tubes and a massive upgrade over the stockers… but still a little compromised.
Enter the EML 5U4G mesh plate. The build quality of this massive tube is flawless and in a completely different class to any other tube I’ve seen…. perceived value is very high; it’s a thing of beauty. I haven’t run this tube for more than around 70 hours yet, but it sounds quite significantly “different” to all the other tubes…. great straight out the box, but appears to be getting slightly more refined with more use.
In conjunction with the DR’s, the first thing that hit me was the soundstage…. I’ve never witnessed such extreme pinpoint imaging before inside a bigger field. Detail, tone and texture is better than all the other tubes with much greater depth perspective and smoothness. Something that took a little getting used to…. the lead singer is presented a little further forward, but the other instruments/backing are much further back; I guess more extreme positional contrast is what I’m talking about. Overall, the clarity is much improved, with the total detail of any instrument/vocalists being available simply by light focus. Another thing this tube does very well is great emphasis on the pace and timing cues…. very musical and foot tapping. Overall, this tube has the best qualities of all the others with none of their shortfalls and significantly improves in many other areas.
So, I’ve ended my search for rectifiers with this EML beauty…. I haven’t compared the MB34 or HW37, but can’t imagine they are better value than this tube? I am extremely happy with the sound of this thing and the system no longer feels compromised to me. Maybe a little gain in transparency could be achieved with different signal tubes as the EML is much smoother, but I tried the 6N6P’s again and it was cleaner, but I lost a little of the pinpoint imaging…. once you’ve had it, its difficult to go back! Sorry if this sounds like an EML advertisement, but I’m really quite excited about the improvement it’s bought to my system…. even my girlfriend instantly noticed the obvious improvement rather than me having to point it out…. you know how that goes…! I believe the turbo bybee is next after Xmas, from what all you guys have said...?
Incidentally, I have absolutely no affiliation or relationship, but my first dealings with George from tubesUSA was a complete pleasure…. great customer service.
Welcome to the forum Mark - thanks for the support in taking back one of the colonies :D
It will be interesting to see the feedback from other owners of the turbo/Bybee mod as more upgrades are starting to get in the field, I'm sure when you read them you'll have yours done asap! With the EML rectifier, DR's and the upgrade the TP will be one of the best digital sources at any price.
I still love the DR's but crave the extra detail from 6N1P's/6N6P's, the latter types are smoothed off by the mod. If the EML adds more softening then this could be a great combination for detail freaks like me.
The forum is a great place to hang around, my system has improved considerably since actively participating.
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count me in the group buy on Emission Labs 5U4G
thanks
lapsan
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And another 'Me too' on the group buy.
Thanks Philistine
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Count me in as well for the group buy
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Well a dealer could certainly sell abunch of these tubes right now, they just need to exist :scratch:
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I'm in for the group buy also, of course.
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Cheers Philisitine,
Yes.... 12 years.... Willy Shakespeare country to Phoenix AZ.... I still haven't got em all turned around yet...!
When I started this silly game around 30 years ago, the focus was spend the budget mostly on the front end.... I was Linn/Naim nut back then. Over the years, we seemed to progress towards spending silly money on speakers and amps and then came the crazy cable times of course! I've heard many poor sounding systems that cost mega-bucks driven by sources that only cost a few hundred bucks.... back to front from past thinking.... crap in, crap out.... just louder. Listening to my system last night with the EML/DR's and thinking about the improvements talked about by you guys with the Turbo mods etc, just made me think this is a great way to go towards satisfaction. I've been thinking about changing my amp and speakers recently because of the constant audiophile yearning for more.... but this front end improvement made me realize that this is where the magic is...! I also truly believe the MWT is probably the best source/DAC combo available at any price.... mine isn't going anywhere!
I agree with the DR's.... very good, but there has to be something better in combo with the EML. They have incredible synergy together in my system, but I could see that if a system was quite bass heavy rather than neutral, they might be a little over the top?
Best,
Mark
[/quote]
Welcome to the forum Mark - thanks for the support in taking back one of the colonies :D
It will be interesting to see the feedback from other owners of the turbo/Bybee mod as more upgrades are starting to get in the field, I'm sure when you read them you'll have yours done asap! With the EML rectifier, DR's and the upgrade the TP will be one of the best digital sources at any price.
I still love the DR's but crave the extra detail from 6N1P's/6N6P's, the latter types are smoothed off by the mod. If the EML adds more softening then this could be a great combination for detail freaks like me.
The forum is a great place to hang around, my system has improved considerably since actively participating.
[/quote]
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Mark, I would suggest trying the rca cleartop (or other similar tube) 6CG7. They are very detailed and transparent. They are the signal tubes I use in my TP.
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Thanks David,
I was actually looking at those black sable 6CG7's from tube depot.... does anyone know anything about them...?
By the way.... sorry I put my Musician 111 up at the same time as you on AG.... not on purpose. :oops:
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Thanks David,
I was actually looking at those black sable 6CG7's from tube depot.... does anyone know anything about them...?
I purchased a pair of RCA "Kuhl" 6CG7's from Tube World. They replaced the stock signal tubes and I ran them with a GZ-32 (also a Kuhl Tube from Tube World). I replaced the 6CG7's with the 6H30DRs and have honestly never felt the DRs sounded better than the 6CG7's in my system. Prior to switching back from the DR's I switched the GZ-32 for a MB-GZ-34. The MB was such a drastic improvement over the GZ-32 that I never returned to the 6CG7's.
My Transporter is due back from Dan tomorrow with the Turbo and Bybee upgrades. Of course I will listen to it some but I expect it to run 24/7 into shut-off amps for a couple of weeks for break-in. I will then seriously evaluate the GZ-32 vs. MB and the 6CG7's vs. the DRs.
Keep us posted on your results and someday I look forward to trying one of the EML-5U4G Mesh Tubes. Like the MBs they are scarce!
Ken
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Thanks David,
I was actually looking at those black sable 6CG7's from tube depot.... does anyone know anything about them...?
By the way.... sorry I put my Musician 111 up at the same time as you on AG.... not on purpose. :oops:
Thanks for the apology, I appreciate it. Mine is actually sold now to another AC member. It is headed his way right now and I look forward to his impressions of it.
Call Brent Jessie at www.audiotubes.com he has a real nice selection of 6CG7's and he offers a 30-day in-home trial of the tubes :thumb:
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Here is something very interesting that I just found out. The Emission Labs 274B tube is a drop-in replacement voltage wise to the 5AR4. This is another Emissions Labs tube that we could try that is currently in stock.
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Here is something very interesting that I just found out. The Emission Labs 274B tube is a drop-in replacement voltage wise to the 5AR4. This is another Emissions Labs tube that we could try that is currently in stock.
Probably like many on this site I have been searching the internet for information on the EML-5U4G Tubes. There are two versions of the tube, one with solid plates and one with the woven mesh. Apparently, Sylvania made a 5U4G tube with woven mesh in the 1940's (apparently a great tube if you can find one). Reviewers claim that the tubes with the woven mesh are far superior to the ones with the solid plates and also superior to the ones made with punched mesh plates.
Based on my research the 5U4G Mesh tube is on my must have list. I don't know how Phil is making out but they do not seem to be available to purchase today!
Ken
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I know Phil has been in contact with George as have I. He has the solid plate version in stock but not the mesh. The mesh is roughly a month out.
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I still love the DR's but crave the extra detail from 6N1P's/6N6P's, the latter types are smoothed off by the mod. If the EML adds more softening then this could be a great combination for detail freaks like me.
Phil,
What do you mean by the phrase "the latter types are smoothed off by the mod"? Do you mean that the mod has rolled off the top end of the 6N1P's, and is that good or bad for you? Why I'm asking is that I went back when I read this and grabbed my pedestrian Sovtek 6N1P's and let them play for 24 hrs. Then tonight I fired them up. Detail? Can you say detail? Wow, are these the detail kings! And yes, I, too, am a detail freak. They are just a little bit midrange shy, even with the Tung Sol 5U4GB's. Actauilly, so far a nice combo are the 6N1P's and a Philips GZ32...smooth and nice,; not as dynamic as some, but a nice combo nonetheless, now that the mod adds the weight (I will keep saying that i believe the mod has changed my tube rolling to a large extent). Keep in mind I have a pair of DR's in the 36.5, along with a pair of metal bases, so that's what's downstream.
Net/net, the 6N1P's have a broad soundstage and tons of gain. With the weightier sound of the mod the 6N1P's have enough to get them to the next round with a majority of music. I like them better than my one pair of 6N6P's. I still haven't opend the other pair I won. I'd love to hear them (6N1P's) with a mesh plate Emissions Labs! :green:
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Has anyone considered the Sophia Princess in its various versions...? On the headfi forums the EML and Sophia seem to be the main contenders. As much as I am over the moon with the EML, I would love to see a comparison of the two in the MWT...?
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I was just reading some of those comparisons last night, but haven't delved too far into the princess. If she is a shorter tube I may have to take her for a roll in the hay... :o er, I mean Transporter.
edit: Just checked and she is a big girl, a little smaller than the EML though. And not a cheap date! Seems to be a close second in preference to the EML tube...
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Has anyone considered the Sophia Princess in its various versions...? On the headfi forums the EML and Sophia seem to be the main contenders. As much as I am over the moon with the EML, I would love to see a comparison of the two in the MWT...?
This post may perhaps be of interest: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emission-labs-eml-274b-pics-small-review-vs-sophia-princess-274b-354055/
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edit: Just checked and she is a big girl, a little smaller than the EML though. And not a cheap date! Seems to be a close second in preference to the EML tube...
Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere, but will this fit into the tube-rectified PS 9.0, that I might try it with my 3910?
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edit: Just checked and she is a big girl, a little smaller than the EML though. And not a cheap date! Seems to be a close second in preference to the EML tube...
Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere, but will this fit into the tube-rectified PS 9.0, that I might try it with my 3910?
No. You'll have to have a hole cut in the top of the PS cover (not too difficult as it's just sheet metal).
Rob
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I get my TP with the ps+bybee upgrades back today from Dan. I'm now looking for recommendations on the 6CG7 Cleartop tubes.
I see a number of different manufactureres/vintage/et al discussed and pricing from $30 to $100/pair. Is there a general concensus on one type to get? ie RCA, 60's vintage, clear top, grey plate, side getter, top getter, halo, d-ring, etc. I don't mind spending a little extra to get the premium stuff, I just want to buy the right tubes one time and enjoy.
Thanks,
Kenreau
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I get my TP with the ps+bybee upgrades back today from Dan. I'm now looking for recommendations on the 6CG7 Cleartop tubes.
I see a number of different manufactureres/vintage/et al discussed and pricing from $30 to $100/pair. Is there a general concensus on one type to get? ie RCA, 60's vintage, clear top, grey plate, side getter, top getter, halo, d-ring, etc. I don't mind spending a little extra to get the premium stuff, I just want to buy the right tubes one time and enjoy.
Thanks,
Kenreau
RCA, to my knowledge, is the only clear top 6FQ7. They made them in the 60's and 70's. I'm not aware that one decade was better or worse. NOS is preferable, of course, to used. They also made clear top 6CG7's with an electrostatic plate between the grey plates. I don't own those, though. A call to Brendan (tubeworld) or Brent Jessie would "clear " things up. :D There aren't many variants.
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Ken, I responded to your PM with some details for you.
www.audiotubes.com will set you up with a matched pair of rca cleartops for like $48. and you get a 30 day in-home trial with the tubes :thumb:
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Excellent - thanks guys. Thats exactly what I needed.
Thank you! :thumb:
Kenreau
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So, here's a wild one. if you've followed any of my silly wanderings on this thread you'd know I have a pair of DR's and a pair of 5AR4 metal bases in my dual mono 36.5, and so far like the Tung Sol 5U4GB (previously my fave pair in the 36.5) and a pair of Raytheon 6CG7's in the TP. Well, based on Phil's comments about the great detail in the inexpensive Russian 6n1P's I thought I'd drag them out and try a few rectifiers with them.
I had my buddy Rob over Tues night (note; Rob has to be sooooo frickin sick of my eval playlist. I drag him over to the house and force him to listen as we cycle through it on each tube combo! :o. I'm so sorry Rob. You are indeed a great friend. :D ). Anyway....after a long and successful session with both the 6N1P's and the RCA clear tops, along with several rectifiers I came to an interesting idea. So last night I completely redid the setup. :icon_surprised: The different rectifiers (all but the metal bases cuz they were in the pre) married well with the high gain and high detail of the 6N1P's but just left me, a warm midrange and detail guy, a little short in the lower midrange, upper bass department.
So....my thinking is this: why not go back to the TS 5U4GB's in the 36.5, and take advantage of both the weight that the upgrade added, as well as the slight midbass hump in the metal bases (not heard in the pre, but definitely there in the TP) and marry it to the incredible deatil and gain in the 6n1P's. So last night and tonight I have been listening with that combo (TP with metal base and 6N1P's; pair of DR's and pair of TS 5U4GB's in pre) and I'm liking it very much. The 3-D aspect of the Tung Sols shine through at the pre, yet the weight and substance of the metal base synergizes nicely with the wide soundstage and detail of the Russian cheapy. I may come to find some music where it doesn;t work, but so far have never heard stuff like Beck's wet acoustic songs (Mutations, Ramshackle, Farewell Ride, etc.) sound more gutsy and organic. Daniel Lanois's self produced stuff is another example of where this combo really shines (small inside pun there). I'll report back on whether it has staying power....but am now even more geeked for the EML 5U4G idea, givenm the great feedback over even the metal bases..
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Ted, I cannot believe you noticed that midbass hump!! I literally just signed on to talk about it :o I have been comparing my HW GZ37 to a metal base 5AR4 that a friend loaned me. The most immediate thing I head was a hump in the midbass with the 5AR4. I will say that my highs might be ever so slightly more recessed with the GZ37, but for me it is still my favorite tube. I also tried my Tung-Sol 5U4GB as I keep wanting to like that tube, but things just sounded a bit congested to me. Even after the upgrade I must say that the HW GZ37 is still my favorite rectifier.
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Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today :wink: ) what about a pair of the Emissions Labs in the 36.5 over the Tung-Sols??
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Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today :wink: ) what about a pair of the Emissions Labs in the 36.5 over the Tung-Sols??
The tube rolling world is full of possibilities. :D :wink:
My first step will be to try one (EML) in the TP. I'm warming up the clear tops right now instead of the 6N1P's, just to hear the differences tonight, while my memory is still fresh enough. The wide soundstage and detail of the 6n1P's is preet cool, though, and I don;t remember hearing that in anything else, even my beloved Raytheons. Phil wants me to try the cousin, the Russian 6N6P's, which i haven't installed since the upgrade.
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Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today :wink: ) what about a pair of the Emissions Labs in the 36.5 over the Tung-Sols??
The tube rolling world is full of possibilities. :D :wink:
My first step will be to try one (EML) in the TP. I'm warming up the clear tops right now instead of the 6N1P's, just to hear the differences tonight, while my memory is still fresh enough. The wide soundstage and detail of the 6n1P's is preet cool, though, and I don;t remember hearing that in anything else, even my beloved Raytheons. Phil wants me to try the cousin, the Russian 6N6P's, which i haven't installed since the upgrade.
Ted,
Are the 6N1P's the stock ones?
George
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Yes, They are labeled 6N1P-EB (Russian cyrillic..some call them the EV's.). They are noted to be the most heavy-duty and best sounding of the three 6N1P varieties, and Dan picked the right one. :thumb: They are dirt cheap; just in case I fall in love long-term I picked up a set of 8 of them on Ebay (NOS) for $25 shipped from Russia..
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Ted, if this combo proves to be your favorite combo (at least for today :wink: )
Shoot, he hasn't yet heard the 6900's I've sent him. :lol:
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My EML has done over a hundred hours now and has changed a touch.... maybe others who have them can concur.... glare (with the DR's) is now practically non-existent and continues to go in this direction. With other equipment you would think its going dull or losing detail.... that would be the effect.... but its not dull in any way, nor is there any loss of detail.... its just the music in a very natural presentation with no nasty artifacts.
Some of my live concert DVD's could only be played at 70% throttle before pain.... but I can now play them 100% wide open easily!
When I tried the 6N6P's with the EML, I liked the better tonal balance and a little more detail than with the DR's, although I lost a little solidity and bass.... but the one thing that killed the deal for me was the dispersion of image and positional information. The EML/DR combo has killer pinpoint imaging. I may try the 6N1P's this weekend if I get time.
My set-up is a lot simpler than yours Ted.... I just feed the MWT into a Burson buffer, then into my Musician using Grovers latest IC's.... so "thankfully", I have far less variables than you.... enough to drive you nuts...! Although I am sure I would greatly appreciate the bigger soundfield/dynamics that a 36.5 would provide.... best not try it....? :drool:
I think I'll wait until my Turbo/bybee mod next year before any other major changes.
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Owenmd,
I'd love to hear your feedback on the EML/6N1P's or any other EML combo you might try. thx
Ted
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My EML has done over a hundred hours now and has changed a touch.... maybe others who have them can concur.... glare (with the DR's) is now practically non-existent and continues to go in this direction. With other equipment you would think its going dull or losing detail.... that would be the effect.... but its not dull in any way, nor is there any loss of detail.... its just the music in a very natural presentation with no nasty artifacts.
Some of my live concert DVD's could only be played at 70% throttle before pain.... but I can now play them 100% wide open easily!
When I tried the 6N6P's with the EML, I liked the better tonal balance and a little more detail than with the DR's, although I lost a little solidity and bass.... but the one thing that killed the deal for me was the dispersion of image and positional information. The EML/DR combo has killer pinpoint imaging. I may try the 6N1P's this weekend if I get time.
My set-up is a lot simpler than yours Ted.... I just feed the MWT into a Burson buffer, then into my Musician using Grovers latest IC's.... so "thankfully", I have far less variables than you.... enough to drive you nuts...! Although I am sure I would greatly appreciate the bigger soundfield/dynamics that a 36.5 would provide.... best not try it....? :drool:
I think I'll wait until my Turbo/bybee mod next year before any other major changes.
Mark, interesting that you should raise the 6N6P's - my principal amp is offline at the moment (enforced sabbatical), so I have no real way of testing this, but my initial feeling is that the 6N1P's and the 6N6P's have a very similar sonic signature. It'll be interesting to get your feedback on this. Phil
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Hi guys, I just noticed some mention of the 6900 tube. I want to clarify - DO NOT USE THE 6900 TUBE IN THE TRANSPORTER. YOU WILL DAMAGE IT IF YOU DO!!!!!
The 6900 is a variant of the 5687, including 7044 and 7119. This family of tubes is excellent and is used in our SWL 9.0SE preamp, phono stage, Sony and some of our earlier Denon mods. The transporter can ONLY use the following driver tubes:
6H30
6BQ7
6FQ7
6CG7
6N1P
Do NOT use the 6922/6DJ8/7308 as the operating points are too high for these tubes and you will probably GREATLY shorten the life of these tubes.
Just didn't want anybody getting confused by the mention of the 6900 tube on the Transporter thread.
Thank you,
Dan W.
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Dan, can you post a page on your website with the list of all tube variants for EACH of your products, or make the owners manuals (which I recall include that info) available for d/l. I, like many others here, have started tube rolling, but cannot find my SWL 9.0SE Sig manual to see what substitutions are "safe".
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Dan, those 6900 being discussed were for Ted to try in his modded Denon. No worries on trying them in the TP. Thanks for the full list and for know that I won multiple varieties of every tube family on there yet still cant pick a favorite :duh:
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So, having pretty much decided on the HW GZ37 as the best rectifier for my system (still need to audition the EML of course) I spent part of the weekend listening to various signal tubes. It came down to my long-time reference RCA cleartop 6CG7's and the stock Sovatek 6N1P's that Dan sends with the unit.
The 6N1P's are a crazy little tube. First off they are so freakin Loud :rock: Putting them into the system really reminds me of when I used to have an old analog deck and I could hit the Loudness button. It is a major difference when I put them in. They are at first really alluring because I feel like the system got more detailed, bigger soundstaging, etc. But I would find I could achieve the same attributes with the 6CG7's if I would just turn the volume way up to get to the point where the 6N1P's were. There certainly seems to me to be a bit of fullness or organic quality to vocals with the 6N1P's that is wonderful. Perhaps a pair of blackplate 6CG7's would provide this as well?? Dunno, may have to order some. However, although the 6N1P's to seem to be a bit more lively than the cleartops in the end I just cant get past a bit of edge/brightness/harshness (or however you wish to describe it) that the 6N1P's seem to introduce into my system. When these tubes work they really work, but when they do not they really do not :scratch: For right now I am going to stay with the 6CG7's but I am certainly open to other possibilities :D
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DK,
I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank you. Those qualities of the 6N1P are right on. As I told you when we spoke, I've been fighting the edginess (I wouldn't call it harsh but splitting hairs) on certain recordings, and wondered if the ones I ordered will be any less so. I don't get the same liveliness (the good quality) or soundstage width with the 6N6P, and the edginess is still there.
Last night I did no listening, but put my system back into normal config (dual mb's in pre) and now have a TS 5U4G (not B) and my trusty Raytheons warming up. I want to go back to that tonight as i still remember the sonics of the earlier config. I'll report back. I'm still very hopeful, though that an EML/6N1P will erradicate or significantly reduce the edginess and give us the best of all worlds.....we'll see. it will be interesting to hear your thoughts, as I don't have the High Wycombe to a/b.
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Ted, definitely report back. My Plinius shows up this week and am just waiting on some cables from Greg now. So I am going to stick to this with combo while that all breaks in. The Halo amps (what I have been using temporarily) run a bit to the cool side of neutral and the Plinius a bit to the warm so that very well may give me the little warmth I am looking for.
The 6N1P's really are a pretty good tube considering how cheap they are, but that edginess is something I just cannot get past. As you say perhaps with the mythical EML tube it will be a nice combo. I should also not that given how loud the 6N1P's are they are an excellent tube if you are looking for something that is engaging at low listening levels. I could easily see myself using them for while we have people over for dinner or something due to that.
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I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's. They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them :lol:
On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.
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I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's. They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them :lol:
On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.
Maybe this has been tossed around before, but I wonder if that 6N1P edginess could be tamed by cryo treatment and/or tube dampers (ala herbies, or similar).
Kenreau
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I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's. They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them :lol:
On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.
Maybe this has been tossed around before, but I wonder if that 6N1P edginess could be tamed by cryo treatment and/or tube dampers (ala herbies, or similar).
Kenreau
Kenreau I have to say I am not sure either of those would do the trick. I feel more like it is a sonic attribute of that tube. There is a weight and forwardness to the mids and upper treble that work so well with this tube when listening to stripped-down instumentals or vocal tracks. I just feel like when you go to something like Radiohead, The Decemberists, or anything with a larger band and a lot of information in those regions than it simply becomes a bit too much for me. Of course YMMV :D
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I have exactly the same reaction to the 6N1P's. They're a bit like a wife - when you don't have them around for a time you start to miss them and when you have them back you're happy to have them around, but after a few days they start to get on your nerves and you can't wait to get rid of them :lol:
On a serious note the 6N1P's I find are almost perfect, the edginess though needs to be tamed - I started to play around with a GZ32, which showed promise, but I need to revisit this again.
Maybe this has been tossed around before, but I wonder if that 6N1P edginess could be tamed by cryo treatment and/or tube dampers (ala herbies, or similar).
Kenreau
Kenreau I have to say I am not sure either of those would do the trick. I feel more like it is a sonic attribute of that tube. There is a weight and forwardness to the mids and upper treble that work so well with this tube when listening to stripped-down instumentals or vocal tracks. I just feel like when you go to something like Radiohead, The Decemberists, or anything with a larger band and a lot of information in those regions than it simply becomes a bit too much for me. Of course YMMV :D
Of these two options I would tend to consider that the cryo route has the greatest probability of success (if any) and is worth pursuing. I say this as the 6N1P's are low cost (they're sacrifice able) and cryoing shouldn't be too expensive, in the past I found a cryoed TS 5687 tube sound closer to a Bendix 6900 than the standard TS 5687.
Question is who and where?
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...so that very well may give me the little warmth I am looking for.
David, could it be that you are just missing some of the warmth that you became accustomed to with your Dali's, and is no longer present with the KEF's? Just a thought...
This is also a concern of mine... I have a feeling I will want to get on the warm side of neutral with my tubes, as I feel it will balance out the crispness of the Halo and HT3s. Of course I have to get the HT3s in place before I can really start to evaluate anything. :cry:
As you guys have rolled through tubes are there any that stand out as giving a "warmer sound" without too much loss of detail (either signal or rectifier tubes)?
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Finding myself in violent agreement with the recent collective forum concensus of impressions for rectifier and signal tubes in the MWTP.
While they vary significantly between brand, date and construction, I never met a 6CG7 that I didn't like. They all seem to have a nice presentation of high freqs along with a nice midpoint for gain. 6NxP's just begin to sound shrill after a while and, no matter how hard I try to love them, tend to enjoy brief respites in my unit. The 6H30-DR's impart and elegant sound but do so with the expense of several dB of gain making comparison difficult.
It is within rectifier land that things get most interesting. On one end of the spectrum, the MB GZ34 reigns in the areas of image and soundstage... on the other, the better 5U4G's convey detail with unmatched dexterity. A very special 5U4G (that has found fleeting attention here in the past) is the Tung-Sol VT244. This rectifier delivers a balance and transparency that bests all other rectifiers in my collection. At the moment it equally divides duty with my MB GZ34. Not sure that I can call one better... they're both great in their own uniqe ways. Here is a pic... notice the top getter and two filaments running up between the plates that differentiate it from others of its genre:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11710/thumb_36d2_3.jpg)
My favorable experience with this rare relic has me most enthusiastic about the EML mesh plate 5U4G. Were it to strike the mid point between the VT244 and the MB GZ34, we would be a very happy lot.
Any progress on the hunt, Phil?
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Nick,
Nice write-up. Where did you find the rare VT244 (is that the one Phil found for you on Ebay)? Where does it rate compared to standard TS 5U4G or GB?
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ooops, double post
delete please
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Nick,
Nice write-up. Where did you find the rare VT244? Where does it rate compared to standard TS 5U4G or GB?
Ted,
I found the NOS VT244 on an eBay auction offered by a chap in France a while back. Wound up paying about haf the going rate for a MB GZ34.
This rectifier seems to be much smoother with great high end extension than my other 5U4G's which include RCA, Tung-Sol and Sylvania brands. It is significantly more linear than any of my 5U4GB's which all tend to be boomy and somewhat top end starved in my system. It really shines with my better 6CG7's and 6H30-DR tubes on music where details are valued.
The MB GZ34 still "rocks" in my system when the subject matter becomes more dense and favors image and soundstage.
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NickS,
Thanks. You're the third person to speak of the TS 5U4GB as boomy and somewhat rolled off. I've just repalced my pair of them (in the 36.5) with a pair of G versions and gonna let them warm up a bit. Maybe the metal base (and even the DR's) in the TP will sound better without the added GB boominess (that I hadn't heard until you guys have planted it in my brain...:) ). Right now i'm sticking with the mb/6CG7 TP combo though...the DR's in the TP will wait.
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Hi Nick,
I'm glad someone picked up that TS 5U4G / VT244 (top getter) from France. I posted that it was on E-Bay & the real deal last June and wondered if a MWTP owner had snagged it. TS really didn't make a bad tube, but the TS 5U4G / VT244 is reported to be perhaps the best 5U4G of all with great bass, magical.
Nice score, Nick!
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Good day to everyone.
Please, please everyone, give me a must have list of tubes to stock and sell on www.vtubeaudio.com for the ModWright Transporter. Email this to me and I promise to remember your help and return the favor to you.
So far, from my own ears the winners are the 6H30N-DP early 1980's with the diamond etching on the tube and the Mullard branded Philips GZ34 1950's single top O getter.
I am purchasing tubes based on what you guys want and based on what I hear.
As soon as VtubeAudio is birthed and not just in development I am having the programmers / web developers include automatic discounted pricing for every single tube if you are an audiocircle member, period! You guys actually taught me a lot about tube rolling. I admit it. Any suggestions on perks that you should be considered as well are very, very welcome. I live on ideas and can only conjure up so many of them on my own. Now, it is time for my honest assessment and final choice for tubes to use in Dan’s incredible source component.
This is my attempt to describe what I have heard after rolling nearly every tube mentioned in this forum and picking the best. To be honest, trying to find the real world words to describe the audio qualities heard by rolling tubes is challenging.
The 6H30N-DP early 80's or even 1970's sound qualities that I hear are as listed below.
Audio Qualities include:
1. Music that is presented with three-dimensionality.
2. Sound free from unwanted distortion even at very loud volumes.
3. Detailed audio reproduction without sacrificing musicality.
4. A smooth, silky hi frequency musical rendition without coloration.
5. Bass and midrange frequencies that are natural, solid and real, in the sense that nothing gets left out or added.
The MB GZ34 is year specific. Every year has different harmonics (the good, the bad and the ugly).
Harmonics from our tube rolling excursions are what we are hearing when we notice distinctions in the sound. It really boils down to distortion and that is what harmonics and the laws behind them are all about.
I think we should talk about this subject. Great, pleasing audio quality = great pleasing harmonics (distortion). Modern day equipment strips distortion in an effort to reproduce the original recording. This doesn't work, as far as my ears are concerned. We like and need our audio to have a pleasing feel to it. Everything around us, including your furniture and the shape of the room affects the sounds that you hear. This is nature in action and removing that which has been around since the beginning of time, distortion, is not always cool. We need the harmonic instance of it to be happy with the sounds that we hear.
Call me "out there" if you want to but if you strip the sound of its harmonics you are stripping the audio of what our ears need in order to be happy, to be pleased and it is exactly what is magical in the emotional and mystical side of music.
Top choices for me:
1. 6H30N-DP early 1980's with either the black base Mullard 1950's Top O getter rectifier or one step below that the infamous metal base gz34 (Mullard) 1957 rectifiers.
Take care, everyone, and have a wonderful week and a fantastic and joyful holiday season.
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Hi Nick,
I'm glad someone picked up that TS 5U4G / VT244 (top getter) from France. I posted that it was on E-Bay & the real deal last June and wondered if a MWTP owner had snagged it. TS really didn't make a bad tube, but the TS 5U4G / VT244 is reported to be perhaps the best 5U4G of all with great bass, magical.
Nice score, Nick!
Hey Jg,
It was your thoughtful post that guided me to this special tube. Took nearly four weeks for it to transit cross the pond but it finally arrived impeccably packed.
Very much enjoyed ever since.
Thanks again,
Nick
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Sounds like a cool tube Nick :thumb: I will have to keep my eye out for one.
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Very cool, Nick! Glad to see it go to a good home with a TP.
I had only read rave reviews of this tube and had not heard one myself. Happy that you were able to give it a whirl AND that it indeed lives up to the hype. It was pretty odd to find a late 40's early 50's (?) US made Tung Sol tube in France of all places. I have bought most of my metal base GZ34's in Europe but then again, they were made in Holland.
Now that you've given us a nice review, I'll have to hunt down one of those bad boy's for myself!
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John, how about you try and hunt down two of them? :wink:
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Three of them! :D
Uh oh, do I detect a power buy? :lol:
There's an RCA Jan VT244 pair on Ebay for $119 I think (damn Microsoft cashback only worth 8% right now). And lo and behold, they are from France. :thumb:
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France.....................Who would have thought the better US made VT-244's on E-Bay are now in France!
Here is a very good tested pair from the 40's. NOT top getter Tung Sols but still a pretty good pair.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sylvania-VT-244-JAN-CHS-5U4G-MP-1940s_W0QQitemZ130273629273QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item130273629273&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
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John, do you know how the RCA or Ratheon VT-244's compare to the Tung Sol? I have access to a few at a great price. As well as Kenrad and Cunninghams
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Hi David,
I have a KenRad VT-244/5U4G which is a very nice tube. The info I have is from a tube guy who's opinions I have grown to trust. He has since shown himself to be less than honest or perhaps a thief according to some posts regarding his tube sales. This, however does not diminish his knowledge and his opinions are just that, his opinion. I have used his advice regarding the metal base GZ34, Mullard 5AR4/GZ34, 5687's and 5U4G/GB and his experience/opinion has been a value to me and spot on.
Here is the link:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tubes&n=54508&highlight=Robert+experience+on+5u4g&r=
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Sorry, screwed up my edit......
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Yikes! make that a TRIPLE post!!!
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Thanks John :D Very informative post.
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I just received and installed a new EML-5U4G Mesh tube in my Transporter. It is the most beautiful tube I have ever seen but man this is really large. From the top of my shelf to the top is the tube is 8.75." I will reserve any comments on how it compares to the MB GZ-34 until after it burns-in for 100 hours.
Ken
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Are there any more available?
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Are there any more available?
No, I was on a waiting list and got very lucky as a tube that had been sold became available. All dealers are indicating 2 to 4 weeks before a supply is expected.
Ken
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I just received and installed a new EML-5U4G Mesh tube in my Transporter. It is the most beautiful tube I have ever seen but man this is really large. From the top of my shelf to the top is the tube is 8.75." I will reserve any comments on how it compares to the MB GZ-34 until after it burns-in for 100 hours.
Ken
:bawl: definitely too tall for my cabinet... I will have to make due with the smaller HW CV-378 (I recently acquired a NOS October '52 build), or my (1964)Tung-Sol 5AS4 or perhaps the mystery Rogers 5U4G, or the ('61)Mullard GZ34 [fat base]... I'm on the hunt for another Mullard so I can try one in the TP and one in the 36.5... but of course I have to wait for another week or two before I can tell much of a difference (I will have my HT3's by then) as rolling with my current speakers yields very little difference, but I am having a lot of fun looking around for good/great deals on these tubes. I can see how this could become very addictive. :rock:
-Funk
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Funk, you may also want to try an Amperex 5AR4 to see how it compares to the Mullard. You could compare each in the TP. Just shoo me an email if you need a lead on an Amperex.
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I just received and installed a new EML-5U4G Mesh tube in my Transporter. It is the most beautiful tube I have ever seen but man this is really large. From the top of my shelf to the top is the tube is 8.75." I will reserve any comments on how it compares to the MB GZ-34 until after it burns-in for 100 hours.
Ken
:bawl: definitely too tall for my cabinet... I will have to make due with the smaller HW CV-378 (I recently acquired a NOS October '52 build), or my (1964)Tung-Sol 5AS4 or perhaps the mystery Rogers 5U4G, or the ('61)Mullard GZ34 [fat base]... I'm on the hunt for another Mullard so I can try one in the TP and one in the 36.5... but of course I have to wait for another week or two before I can tell much of a difference (I will have my HT3's by then) as rolling with my current speakers yields very little difference, but I am having a lot of fun looking around for good/great deals on these tubes. I can see how this could become very addictive. :rock:
-Funk
Funk:
You have a bunch of nice tubes! Have you been able to score a Metal Base yet? If not it should definitely be on your must have list!
Ken
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I'm going to have to admit my failure on trying to secure a group deal on the EML 5U4G, with it being a hand made tube it's just not going to happen.
I have talked to the various vendors and can point you in their direction:
http://www.tubesusa.com/
Tubesusa - have a lead time of around 3-4 weeks.
http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/
RamLabs/music Reference - nothing on order and want a deposit before ordering rectifier tubes.
http://www.jacmusic.com/
Ken (bigfish) has contacted JAC in Germany - as they price in Euros the $ price is going to fluctuate, probably a better option for European owners.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help on this, but for the price you get a beautiful hand made masterpiece - guess we need a few more data points before giving this a superstar rating.
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I'm going to have to admit my failure on trying to secure a group deal on the EML 5U4G, with it being a hand made tube it's just not going to happen.
I have talked to the various vendors and can point you in their direction:
http://www.tubesusa.com/
Tubesusa - have a lead time of around 3-4 weeks.
http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/
RamLabs/music Reference - nothing on order and want a deposit before ordering rectifier tubes.
http://www.jacmusic.com/
Ken (bigfish) has contacted JAC in Germany - as they price in Euros the $ price is going to fluctuate, probably a better option for European owners.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help on this, but for the price you get a beautiful hand made masterpiece - guess we need a few more data points before giving this a superstar rating.
I sent JAC a request for a quote twice. Approximately 3 to 4 days after sending the second request I received an e-mail with a PDF Quote. They indicated the EML- 5U4G was not available but they were expecting a delivery by the end of December. JAC indicated the tubes have been produced and are in route to them. The price I was quoted for a delivered tube, including PayPal fees was $167.33 Euro ($232.36).
I recommend if you are considering one of these tubes to purchase from George of Tubes USA. If you have any issues it won't cost you an arm and leg to return it.
Ken
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Funk:
You have a bunch of nice tubes! Have you been able to score a Metal Base yet? If not it should definitely be on your must have list!
Ken
Thanks Ken, Metal base is at the top of my (now very short) list, it's just very hard to find one for a decent price... so far the most I have been willing to spend on a tube has been $170 for the HW.
David, PM on it's way
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Funk:
You have a bunch of nice tubes! Have you been able to score a Metal Base yet? If not it should definitely be on your must have list!
Ken
Thanks Ken, Metal base is at the top of my (now very short) list, it's just very hard to find one for a decent price... so far the most I have been willing to spend on a tube has been $170 for the HW.
David, PM on it's way
Modwright John recommends Ebay in Europe - UK/Netherlands/Germany, you can often get a better deal than the US. If this fails we can raid his stash, he's got a gazillion of them hidden away :green:
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:lol: I have been searching through eBay US, with "worldwide" search checked so I think I am covered. Just too hard to let go of sooo much cash for a tube.
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Hi Funk,
I have been watching/buying for a couple of years and this was on my 'watch' list. I looked at it, ran some errands and came home just after it ended.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110313500183
This is by FAR my best 'the one that got away' story and it was just 4 weeks ago! Sure it hadn't been tested but at a hair over $60 shipped, I would have thrown a high bid of $100 or so at it.
I have seen others in the past 2-3 months go for less than $100 and they were tested!
Keep looking. As Phil mentioned I have scored most of mine in Holland & Germany.
Good luck.......half the fun is in the hunt.
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Wow! somebody got one hell-of-a deal!
I'm a pretty patient guy, so I will keep my eye's and ears open. And yes, I am having fun (a little too much, I think) on the hunt. :thumb:
Thanks
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Each of my two metal bases have cost me $150 shipped (both from Europe), the latest being in early October. Some of the prices out there now are ridiculous.
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I have been following this thread closely since its inception and have learned a great deal from everyone who has posted. My thanks to you all. My Transporter should be back from receiving the "hyper-drive" upgrade on Monday. I have both the Emission Labs solid plate and mesh plate 5U4G. Once I am comfortable the hyper-drive mod is broken in I should be able to provide my perspective as to the differences between the 2 tubes. I have been using both tubes in my amplifier for a while now and there is a difference, but I am reluctant to draw a correlation between the results in my amplifier versus the Transporter. I will say that I do not find one tube to be superior over the other, only different. I will post the results as soon I can.
Mark
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Each of my two metal bases have cost me $150 shipped (both from Europe), the latest being in early October. Some of the prices out there now are ridiculous.
Thats what I am waiting for Ted, $150 metal base... :thumb:
I just scored a "Valvo" (from Germany) not sure of the build date though, my guess is late 60's... this was the description: "f32 version, B - code in glass: B5 I4: made by Mullard / Blackburn"
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17448)
Anyone good at deciphering codes?
aa
There is another one of these tubes on eBay right now (ending today). That one is claimed to be NOS/NIB unused... if any one is interested here is a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280293757984 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280293757984)
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I read B5 I4 as made at Blackburn Plant, 1965, 4th week of September. It could be "1955" but usually the B5 codes mean Blackburn 1965 cuz other codes were used before 1956. I could be wrong...
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I have been following this thread closely since its inception and have learned a great deal from everyone who has posted. My thanks to you all. My Transporter should be back from receiving the "hyper-drive" upgrade on Monday. I have both the Emission Labs solid plate and mesh plate 5U4G. Once I am comfortable the hyper-drive mod is broken in I should be able to provide my perspective as to the differences between the 2 tubes. I have been using both tubes in my amplifier for a while now and there is a difference, but I am reluctant to draw a correlation between the results in my amplifier versus the Transporter. I will say that I do not find one tube to be superior over the other, only different. I will post the results as soon I can.
Mark
Mark - great timing getting your TP back before Christmas, hope you enjoy it.
It will be interesting to hear your comments on the differences between the two EML tubes, I believe the only comments so far have been about the mesh version. Do you have any other rectifier tubes that you can compare them against?
Phil
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Ted is spot on with the etching code. It is indeed a 1965 production Mullard.
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That's my favorite Mullard - the 4 notch mid sixties.
I may have a Phillips MB GZ34 for sale soon. I need to have it tested first.
This one has too much bass for me when used in my SWLP. Great otherwise - 3D sound staging, super quiet, nice sparkly highs and that cool midrange thing. But the bass is DEEEEP and a bit woolly. There is also a slight loss in dynamic range too.
In the right piece of gear it would be awesome, no doubt. Works pretty well in my MW Sony 9100es but I like the 5u4G I have had in there better. The MB has the SS more diffuse, less "real" and more romantic in the Sony.
I have a '58 Mullard fat black base coming next week. As far as the insides go, this is very similar to the metal base tubes but these are made in Blackburn by Mullard. I have high hopes for it.
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I read B5 I4 as made at Blackburn Plant, 1965, 4th week of September. It could be "1955" but usually the B5 codes mean Blackburn 1965 cuz other codes were used before 1956. I could be wrong...
Thanks Ted, I think you are right about it being a '65. (a '55 would be a metal base, no?) Either way it tested excellent at 110 mA perfectly balanced... So I am looking forward to trying this one out.
Do you guys have a link to a chart that helps decipher the codes? I've read through the one on Brent Jessee's site and one or two others, but it gets confusing. :scratch: Giving only one example (if that) and at the very beginning, then saying "...and so on." Bah! thats like saying "start with 23, and so on" :roll: But knowing a second example helps tremendously! Thanks.
Somehow I think I was able to figure out my CV378 which is marked HK KB/K as: HK='52 October; KB=Tube factory/ K=High Wycombe
please correct me if I am wrong on that one...
-Greg
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Here's a site with codes...
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/oheinone/valves/pvm-coding.html (http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/oheinone/valves/pvm-coding.html)
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Thanks AB, That's one of the few explanations that is easy to follow. Shoot me a PM before you list your Metal Base, if you decide to let it go. :wink:
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Thanks AB, That's one of the few explanations that is easy to follow. Shoot me a PM before you list your Metal Base, if you decide to let it go. :wink:
Will do. :thumb:
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I received my second NOS Mullard fatbase today in anticipation of my upcoming PS upgrade. It is from '59. I cannot remember the date code of the one that is currently in my 36.5. Once I have the PS for awhile I would like to try a set of Amperex's and compare and contast them to the Mullards.
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I am also going to put the new fatbase in the TP so I can compare it to the HW GZ37.
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Looking forward to your results with the dual fat bases (TP + 36.5)... I stuck the HW in my Transporter today and that thing is tall too. Just barely fits under the self. Letting it break in a bit, but I do notice a little more detail with this tube over the stock 5u4G.
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With Brent Jesse's help I was able to bring my second mb back to life (it had died due to broken solder joint in pin tip, Brent's hunch, and a simple tiny drop of solder fixed it perfectly). Anyway, I'm becoming a real fan of 5AR4's in the TP. I like MB's, fat bases and good ole single O top getter black bases. My faves prior to the hyperdrive upgrade were 5U4G's and GB's but now like the more balanced 5AR4's..at least this month :D
I was hearing some midbass hump with my other mb, but not this newly revived one. That being said, I like the sound of the fat base in the TP too. David, I think you'll love4 dual fat abses in the 36.5 PS...just a hunch. :)
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Guys:
Here is a picture of my Transporter with the EML-5U4G Tube. After burning in for more than 90 hours I ran comparisons today to my previous standard, a metal base GZ-34. Note that I said previous because in my system the EML is a better tube. Base is tighter and instruments are more distinct. YRMV!
I should add that I selected 5 of my favorite tunes and played them with the EML. I then shut-off the Transporter and switched in the MB and powered the unit back on. After having some lunch I sat down and listened to the 5 tracks again. I had this sensation that something was missing and after reinstalling the EML it was there again. This hobby is all about preferences and I have found my new rectifier tube. When the EML Mesh tubes become available to allow me to purchase a spare I will have a MB GZ-34 for sale.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17466)
Ken
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Ken, the EML tube does not give up anything in terms of details and resolution?
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Holy shnykies...that thing is huge (I know, I know...."that's what she said"). Maybe the physical tube is acting as a room damper and that's why the bass is tighter. :D
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Thanks for the update on the EML 5U4G Ken, I was waiting patiently for your 100 hours to come up.
Great news on finding an alternative to the mb GZ34, we now have another option at a reasonable price that is available (just has a 4 week lead time at worst case scenario) - we just need taller shelves.
It looks like you have a pair of 6H30's in the TP - any feedback on how it synergies with other signal tubes or are you just going to keep the 6H30's as a constant?
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Thanks for the update on the EML 5U4G Ken, I was waiting patiently for your 100 hours to come up.
Great news on finding an alternative to the mb GZ34, we now have another option at a reasonable price that is available (just has a 4 week lead time at worst case scenario) - we just need taller shelves.
It looks like you have a pair of 6H30's in the TP - any feedback on how it synergies with other signal tubes or are you just going to keep the 6H30's as a constant?
I have company coming this afternoon and therefore had to compare the EML to the MB just before it obtained the 100 hours. No, I have not switched signal tubes yet but plan to evaluate others at my first opportunity and yes they are the 6H30DRs.
My son is coming home for a week and sometime while he is here I will run a test on him to determine if he also prefers the EML to the MB or vice versa.
Merry Christmas!
Ken
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Tubesusa.com had emission lab 5U4G metal base in stock now,i just got me a christmas gift :thumb:,Merry Christmas everyone.
lapsan
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Lapsan, what we are looking for is the mesh plate version which they are out of stock on. I am not sure how the solid plate and the mesh plate compare.
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Lapsan, what we are looking for is the mesh plate version which they are out of stock on. I am not sure how the solid plate and the mesh plate compare.
David - in an earlier post Mr P (Mark) mentioned he had both the mesh and solid plate versions, we'll get an idea of the differences (if any) when he posts his findings. Phil
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Guys:
This review provides some interesting details and comparisons of mesh-style tubes:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/emission-labs-eml-274b-pics-small-review-vs-sophia-princess-274b-354055/
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Ken
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Yes, from all I have read..and the people I have spoken to, the mesh plate is the one! The solid plate is not in the same league.
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Yes, from all I have read..and the people I have spoken to, the mesh plate is the one! The solid plate is not in the same league.
I have both the mesh plate and and solid plate EM 5U4Gs. By early next week I should have 100 hours on each as well as having the hyper drive mod broken in. I will post results shortly after. I am listening to the solid plate now. At this point (25 hours) it sounds very, very good teamed up with a pair of RCA Cleartops. I too am very interested in the differences.
Mark
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Lapsan, what we are looking for is the mesh plate version which they are out of stock on. I am not sure how the solid plate and the mesh plate compare.
Doh, :duh:,my first second tube buy ,RCA clear top is my first,i hope is match up pretty well. :green:
lapsan
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Merry Christmas, all ye Modwright tube rollers.
Some time ago, I spoke with Ted_b about adding another option into your tube rolling arsenal.
At long last I have completed a pair of prototypes that will be going out to Ted this week.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17483)
Octal to 9 pin base adapters!
No you can try out all the REALLY expensive octal signal tubes in your Modwright Transporter :lol:
Just imagine a nice pair of NOS 6SN7s glowing along with that EM 5u4G :wink:
The adapters are built to Ted's specs to allow them to fit through the existing hole in the top of the Transporter.
Please check with Dan before you you use ANY tube in place of the 6H30.
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:hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:
Thanks Wayne!! I can't wait to get the adapters. I have a pair of CBS/Hytron and a pair of KenRad 6SN7's along with a pair of RCA silver letters coming. I'll post back. Wow, it looks very cool...and now the tube height will balance with those nasty tall mesh plates!! :drool:
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Merry Christmas, all ye Modwright tube rollers.
Some time ago, I spoke with Ted_b about adding another option into your tube rolling arsenal.
At long last I have completed a pair of prototypes that will be going out to Ted this week.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17483)
Octal to 9 pin base adapters!
No you can try out all the REALLY expensive octal signal tubes in your Modwright Transporter :lol:
Just imagine a nice pair of NOS 6SN7s glowing along with that EM 5u4G :wink:
The adapters are built to Ted's specs to allow them to fit through the existing hole in the top of the Transporter.
Please check with Dan before you you use ANY tube in place of the 6H30.
This is great news, Wayne!! I am so glad to see this happening. Please let me know as soon as you are ready to build a second set :thumb:
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Merry Christmas, all ye Modwright tube rollers.
Some time ago, I spoke with Ted_b about adding another option into your tube rolling arsenal.
At long last I have completed a pair of prototypes that will be going out to Ted this week.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17483)
Octal to 9 pin base adapters!
No you can try out all the REALLY expensive octal signal tubes in your Modwright Transporter :lol:
Just imagine a nice pair of NOS 6SN7s glowing along with that EM 5u4G :wink:
The adapters are built to Ted's specs to allow them to fit through the existing hole in the top of the Transporter.
Please check with Dan before you you use ANY tube in place of the 6H30.
:notworthy: Nice job as always Wayne.
I can imagine all the tube vendors now having Porsche test drives based on the extra business they've got coming in 2009 :thumb:
The savvy amongst us can convert our 401K's into NOS 6SN7's.
In the meantime we can sit back and wait for the verdict from El Presidente.
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OK, so anybody who has prior experience with 6SN7's, or know a good reasonable priced pair of 6SN7's, or have a pair they want to trial in here?? :D
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OK, so anybody who has prior experience with 6SN7's, or know a good reasonable priced pair of 6SN7's, or have a pair they want to trial in here?? :D
Ted:
The holy grail of 6SN7's are the Tung-Sol Round Plates. They are nearly as expensive as the MB- GZ-34's. :lol:
Ken
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OK, so anybody who has prior experience with 6SN7's, or know a good reasonable priced pair of 6SN7's, or have a pair they want to trial in here?? :D
Ted, call Brent. He and I discussed this before when you and I were searching for the adapter. He has a pretty big inventory of 6SN7's.
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Ted,
While you are trolling around for octals, you might want to pick up the octal version of the 6H30. I have heard VERY good things about the tube in that package.
You all realize the "stock" adapter is the start. There is enough room inside the adapter for at least 4) Bybee Purifiers :green:
I could also use different wire to connect the socket to the base. I could even add a resistor or two to adjust the bias for a particular tube.
The possibility exists that you might need a separate adapter for each tube you use.
:icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
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OK, so anybody who has prior experience with 6SN7's, or know a good reasonable priced pair of 6SN7's, or have a pair they want to trial in here?? :D
Ted, call Brent. He and I discussed this before when you and I were searching for the adapter. He has a pretty big inventory of 6SN7's.
Yeah, actually he and I have discussed this at length. I have a whole list of tubes I'm trolling for:
VT-231 TS round plates
VT-231 RCA black plates
A variety of VT-231 Sylvanias, KenRads, etc (I have Kenrads and CBS/Hytron coming)
6SN7GT RCA silver label bottom getters (I won a pair on Ebay about 2 weeks ago and have them on their way)
I just asked the AC'ers to see if any other diamonds popped up from the rough.
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Ted:
I and I am certain others will be interested in your reports on how the 6SN7's compare to the normal variety of signal tubes in the Transporter. To bad we can not use the 12SN7's because they are dirt cheap in comparison to the 6SN7's.
Ken
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No offense intended to Dan, but it is possible to use a 12 volt filament transformer to give even more options for tube rolling.
If anyone wishes to discuss this, I do suggest it be moved away from this thread.
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OK, so anybody who has prior experience with 6SN7's, or know a good reasonable priced pair of 6SN7's, or have a pair they want to trial in here?? :D
I have a good amount of experience rolling 6SN7's in my Atma-Sphere amps and have a pretty decent stash.
I could probably lend you some after you verify that this doesn't eat up tubes.
In the meantime, here is a link that describes the sound of many of the best tubes:
http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/6sn7sound.html
George
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George,
Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know.
I've been using that link to get educated over the past few weeks. Thx
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I'll be very curious about how you rate the 6sn7s. I have a pretty nice collection of different types that I run in my BATVK75SE. I am running Ken Rads right now, but think I like the previous set of Ratheons a bit more. Now I have a bunch of sylvania 6sn7W or WGT, raytheon and and tung sols for some time when I feel like changing them out. In the BAT, they are drivers and not as critical for quality and low noise as they might be in the Transporter.
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George mentioned favoring the Raytheons too. (I love my Raytheon 6CG7's...no relation). I'll look for some. Black flat plate vt-231's?
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ted_b,
Do you get noise from the 6cg7 tubes? I tried the Sylvania & RCA 6cg7 in the LS36.5 and I can hear the noise from across the room. But the 6H30P tubes were dead quiet. Thanks.
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The LS should use 6H30's ONLY!! Do not use others (other than variants like the DR's). The 6CG7's (and every other signal tube talked about in THIS thread) are for the Transporter, NOT the LS 36.5. This is a TP tube rolling thread. Using 6CG7's in the LS will be noise city.....and won't work.
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Not only noise, but I believe that Dan said using errant tubes could damage the LS 36.5. I asked him about starting a thread for rolling in the LS 36.5, and he explained that it would be a rather short one. Signal tubes would only be 6H30's, and rectifiers are limited to what can fit inside the enclosure... GZ34, perhaps a 5U4GB but I think that even may be a little tall.
I stuck the Rogers 5U4G in my transporter today, crossed my fingers and fired it up. It worked! :thumb: The free tube turned out to be a fully functioning one. I let it play most of the day today, just to put some time on it, so no comments on sound yet... it looks cool though, a smaller version of the big bottle HW I had in there for the past couple of days. In terms of construction, it looks similar to the ST shaped Raytheon 5U4G that was pictured a few pages back...
Are there any other options for signal tubes in the Transporter that are not on this list?:
6H30
6BQ7
6FQ7
6CG7
6N1P
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Thanks people on the tubes for the LS. I won't look much further on this. I have a couple of fat bottle rectifier tubes and they are slightly too tall for the unit.
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George mentioned favoring the Raytheons too. (I love my Raytheon 6CG7's...no relation). I'll look for some. Black flat plate vt-231's?
Let us know how the tube adapter works. If it doesn't blow up the transporter or the tubes, I might be willing to find a few orphan pairs of 6sn7 for you to report to us on how they sound in the TP
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Lapsan, what we are looking for is the mesh plate version which they are out of stock on. I am not sure how the solid plate and the mesh plate compare.
David - in an earlier post Mr P (Mark) mentioned he had both the mesh and solid plate versions, we'll get an idea of the differences (if any) when he posts his findings. Phil
I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this afternoon. This activity was originally planned for yesterday afternoon, but a power outage due to high winds put that plan on hold. Just another reason to get off the grid.
During the comparison I used two songs I was very familiar with. The first was vocal/acoustic based, “Cry of a Tiny Baby” off the Columbia Records Radio Hour CD. The second was “New South Africa” off the Live Art CD by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. This song has a lot going on instrumentally.
To compare I listened to a song three times with the solid plate tube, changed to the mesh plate tube, let it warm up, listened to the same song two times, changed back to the solid plate, let it warm up and listened to the same song one more time. I did this for each of the two songs. My system had been playing for 90 minutes prior to starting. All tubes had >100 hours on them.
The differences in my system were subtle. The solid plate was a little more incisive/tighter with a touch more drive, most noticeable in the bass. The stage presentation with the mesh plate plate was slightly further back than with the solid plate, even with the front of my speakers instead of slightly in front of them. There were a couple of instances where I thought I heard a little more resolution with the mesh plate. That was about it. In my system these were not huge differences. For me the solid plate will be my main tube as my system is a little laid back at this time.
A couple of other notes. In my system the RCA Cleartops are magic with either the mesh plate or solid plate EM Lab 5U4G. While the 6N1Ps provided a little more resolution, there is no comparison in the tone and timbre areas. I have not tried the 6H30DRs and to be honest I’m in no hurry. This tube combination along with the Hyper-Drive mod has sent my system to new level. Also, the two 5U4Gs in series in my system was too much of a good thing. I experimented with putting one in the Transporter and one in my amplifier. While the sound was not bad, it was clearly better with just the one in the Transporter.
Disclaimer - Results are based on my system and YMMV in yours.
System = Transporter with Hyper Drive Mod - First Sound Presence Mk II Preamp - Yamamoto 300B SET amp - Zu Definition Pro Mk II Speakers
Let me know if you have any questions.
Mark
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Mark, thanks for taking the time to do this and report your findings - looks like we'll all be buying both the solid and mesh plate versions :green:
On a serious note what I take from your findings are that you found the solid plate marginally better, but you could live with either of them.
Phil
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Mark, thanks for taking the time to do this and report your findings - looks like we'll all be buying both the solid and mesh plate versions :green:
On a serious note what I take from your findings are that you found the solid plate marginally better, but you could live with either of them.
Phil
Phil - For my system the solid plate is slightly better. If my system was a little on the forward side I would opt for the mesh plate as my first choice. I think we are into fine tuning here.
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Mark, thanks for taking the time to do this and report your findings - looks like we'll all be buying both the solid and mesh plate versions :green:
On a serious note what I take from your findings are that you found the solid plate marginally better, but you could live with either of them.
Phil
Phil - Forgot to answer the last part of your question. Yes I can live with either of them. I will keep the mesh plate as my backup and for fine tuning if my system gets a little too forward in the future.
Mark
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George mentioned favoring the Raytheons too. (I love my Raytheon 6CG7's...no relation). I'll look for some. Black flat plate vt-231's?
Let us know how the tube adapter works. If it doesn't blow up the transporter or the tubes, I might be willing to find a few orphan pairs of 6sn7 for you to report to us on how they sound in the TP
Well......it works!! My TP didn't blow up, the tubes didn't blow up, and it's making vey nice music. The 6SN7's are NOS RCA Silver label black plate bottom getters. They have too few hours to say anything other than....they work! :thumb:
The Bolder cable octal adapters are purely prototypes right now (Wayne is a perfectionist and is not pleased with the look, and thinking about using other materials rather than heatshrink, etc....but I think they are just fine for now). The fit is snug as they go through the top holes, but then they fit easily once through.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17537) (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17537)
(http://i11.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/21/a3/c3fc_1.JPG)
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Mark, thanks for taking the time to do this and report your findings - looks like we'll all be buying both the solid and mesh plate versions :green:
On a serious note what I take from your findings are that you found the solid plate marginally better, but you could live with either of them.
Phil
Phil - Forgot to answer the last part of your question. Yes I can live with either of them. I will keep the mesh plate as my backup and for fine tuning if my system gets a little too forward in the future.
Mark
Mark, if you have any desire to lend out your "backup" mesh plate for a few weeks shoot me a PM :thumb:
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Excellent news Ted! I hope to have a set within the next week or so...
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Ted, any notable changes in gain with the 6SN7's? I am anxious to hear what you and David find out. Is there anything specific that you guys are looking to achieve by using the 6SN7's? Or just more rolling fun? :wink:
-Greg
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More rolling fun really, that's all. The 6SN7 family and their variants seem to have many more sonic options, from warm to sizzle. The military VT-231 variant is my target right now; however the Tung Sol round/cylindrical plate is absurdly expensive. Not on my radar expect as a demo maybe.
The gain was more like the 6CG7...probably a db or 2 higher, but not as high as the 6N1P. That's from a simple first blush, though.
Edit: Actually closer gain to the 6N1P's but not quite as loud (more than a db or 2 as previously mentioned though).
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look sweet, :thumb:,my solid plate emission lab should arrive anytime soon :drool:
lapsan
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The 6SN7 RCA Silver labels present a very strong midrange sweetness, and a tighly controlled bass, but are a bit too rolled off for many of my recordings. I'm gonna give the tubes another 40 hrs or so, though; if they clean up the top end they will be giant killers.
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Hello All!
Just a brief note to let you know that the Emission Labs 5U4G Mesh tubes will be arriving before the end of this month. Thanks to all of you for showing interest!
Best,
George
TubesUSA.com
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Hello All!
Just a brief note to let you know that the Emission Labs 5U4G Mesh tubes will be arriving before the end of this month. Thanks to all of you for showing interest!
Best,
George
TubesUSA.com
Hi George, do you have solid plates on order as well? Thanks.
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I have the solid plate 5U4G's in Stock at the moment.
Best,
George
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Are they all spoken for?
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Just two of the EML solid plate 5U4G's left.
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The 6SN7 RCA Silver labels present a very strong midrange sweetness, and a tighly controlled bass, but are a bit too rolled off for many of my recordings. I'm gonna give the tubes another 40 hrs or so, though; if they clean up the top end they will be giant killers.
Any updates Ted?
George
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George, Ted left yesterday morning for CES so it may be a few days till you hear from him. I will hopefully have a set of adapters from Wayne towards the end of next week and will let you know as well. You got any extra 6SN7's kicking around?
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George, Ted left yesterday morning for CES so it may be a few days till you hear from him. I will hopefully have a set of adapters from Wayne towards the end of next week and will let you know as well. You got any extra 6SN7's kicking around?
I think I could find a few... aa
George
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Well, I have now ordered my Modwright Transporter, so I'm eager to join the club :thumb:!! Currently I have a Raysonic CD168, with Dario Miniwatt 7308 tubes and its great, but I've messed around with my Ipod (lossless files) feeding an external DAC via the Wadia Itransport, and really like the convenience. But the Itransport/DAC combo can't come close to the Raysonic, so I'm hoping the MW Transporter fills the gap!
As I use a Cary SLI-80 integrated amp, I'm already way to deep into tuberolling--got like 4 sets of output tubes, 3 different pairs of rectifiers, some RCA and some Ken Rad VT231 driver tubes, and lots to 6922/7308's; plus as I can use them in the Cary, I've been trying some different 6CG7's, so I have some candidates for the MW Transporter.
I've been looking a while for some Raytheon blackplate 6CG7's without success--is anyone has a spare pair they would sell or know of a source that has some, please let me know!!
Randy
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welcome to the club :thumb: I am sure you will be very pleased.
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I've been looking a while for some Raytheon blackplate 6CG7's without success--is anyone has a spare pair they would sell or know of a source that has some, please let me know!!
Welcome Randy, I believe that I've got some NOS RCA 6CG7's - would these help?
Phil
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Thanks, guys. Phil, thanks for the offer, but I have 1 pair of RCA cleartops--haven't used them much in the 'pre' spots on my amp, but I'm sure I'll give 'em a try once I have the MW Transporter in the system.
I also should thank all of you 'old hands', as I feel like I've learned an awful lot about the tuberolling options by reading all of your posts. I have the following rectifiers in house that I can try (my integrated also uses a pair of these): (1) NOS RCA 5U4GB; (2) NOS black base RCA 5U4; (3) NOS Mazda 5U4; (4) NOS Mazda GZ32; (5) 2 different 60's vintage Raytheon 5U4GB's; (6) NOS CBS blackplate 5U4GB; and (7) NOS Tung Sol black plate 5U4GB (50's vintage i believe)!! So I will keep myself busy on the rectifier front for a while :o!!
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Damn, this thread is a veritable tome!! I just joined the Circle here, and was checking out some of the thread's here. I've gotta say, Dan's Transporter transformed my front end (do I need to write a disclaimer on this Circle?). I was using a completely maxed out Modwright 999es and I have to say he's bested himself. I've been really happy with the Transporter, and have told Dan numerous times that it's the best digital front end I've had in my system. I thought I'd contribute my very minimal tube rolling experiments. The output stock tubes were easily bettered by a pair of RCA cleartops. I have not tried anything else yet. I tried rolling the stock RCA GZ37 for a couple of NOS Mullard GZ34's and really didn't like that direction - it tended to soften everything out to my ears. I really didn't give either of them much of a chance as my knee-jerk reaction was to run, not walk, back to the GZ37, which felt more detailed and impactfull, for lack of better verbiage. I haven't gone through all 31 pages of this thread, but given the response, any suggestions? Power cord's a TG688 - haven't tried anything else. Not into dropping large coin on PC's, though it certainly can make a difference.
Thanks for the warm welcome on the CES thread!
Best,
Marco
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Marco,
From your description, you might want to try a black base Mullard GZ32. Brent Jesse has some nice Dario Miniwatt labeled pieces from 1957. Also, perhaps, a Tung Sol 5U4G.
Rob
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Damn, this thread is a veritable tome!! I just joined the Circle here, and was checking out some of the thread's here. I've gotta say, Dan's Transporter transformed my front end (do I need to write a disclaimer on this Circle?). I was using a completely maxed out Modwright 999es and I have to say he's bested himself. I've been really happy with the Transporter, and have told Dan numerous times that it's the best digital front end I've had in my system. I thought I'd contribute my very minimal tube rolling experiments. The output stock tubes were easily bettered by a pair of RCA cleartops. I have not tried anything else yet. I tried rolling the stock RCA GZ37 for a couple of NOS Mullard GZ34's and really didn't like that direction - it tended to soften everything out to my ears. I really didn't give either of them much of a chance as my knee-jerk reaction was to run, not walk, back to the GZ37, which felt more detailed and impactfull, for lack of better verbiage. I haven't gone through all 31 pages of this thread, but given the response, any suggestions? Power cord's a TG688 - haven't tried anything else. Not into dropping large coin on PC's, though it certainly can make a difference.
Thanks for the warm welcome on the CES thread!
Best,
Marco
The Emission Labs 5U4G's are starting to come in now Marco, you might want to keep an eye out on the feedback on these over the next few weeks.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17826)
Here is a shot of the MKII version of the 9 pin to octal adapters.
These are a lot more sturdy. They will go out to Rydenfan this week for his comments.
I'll try to make another set for zybar to try.
If everyone likes this version, I'll see about offering them for sale.
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Great Wayne :thumb: I cannot wait to try them.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17826)
Here is a shot of the MKII version of the 9 pin to octal adapters.
These are a lot more sturdy. They will go out to Rydenfan this week for his comments.
I'll try to make another set for zybar to try.
If everyone likes this version, I'll see about offering them for sale.
Looking forward to it Wayne.
I have some very nice 6SN7 tubes I can try:
- 6SN7W Sylvania Metal Base
- VT-231 Raytheon, black flat plates
- VT-231 Ken-Rad, flat black plates
- 6SN7WGTA Sylvania Chrome Domes
George[/list]
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I wouldn't mine a v2, too, but only if it's readily available. My v1 is ok but the pins are very very temperamental. Looks like that's been solved with V2.
David,
I can send you a set of CBS/Hytrons, but all I have are those, the RCA Silver labels and some used Ken-Rads that I haven't tried yet.
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I wouldn't mine a v2, too, but only if it's readily available. My v1 is ok but the pins are very very temperamental. Looks like that's been solved with V2.
David,
I can send you a set of CBS/Hytrons, but all I have are those, the RCA Silver labels and some used Ken-Rads that I haven't tried yet.
I am taking care of David and sending him a few goodies to play with.
Besides the 6SN7's, I am also going to include yet another rectifier tube for David to try:
BEL GZ34 5AR4 - 1970s Rare MINT NOS NIB by Philips/Mullard OEM
Happy listening David.
George
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George,
I am VERY interested in your comments about the VT-231's.
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I wouldn't mine a v2, too, but only if it's readily available. My v1 is ok but the pins are very very temperamental. Looks like that's been solved with V2.
David,
I can send you a set of CBS/Hytrons, but all I have are those, the RCA Silver labels and some used Ken-Rads that I haven't tried yet.
I am taking care of David and sending him a few goodies to play with.
Besides the 6SN7's, I am also going to include yet another rectifier tube for David to try:
BEL GZ34 5AR4 - 1970s Rare MINT NOS NIB by Philips/Mullard OEM
Happy listening David.
George
Thanks George :thumb: It is greatly appreciated! I am most interested to see how this variety of tube works in the TP.
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I wouldn't mine a v2, too, but only if it's readily available. My v1 is ok but the pins are very very temperamental. Looks like that's been solved with V2.
Ted,
That is one of the reasons I came up with v2. I built a set of v1 for David but the pins were too "floaty". I feel the next set I build for George will be even more stable.
Isn't is fun doing beta testing :lol:
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I own Dan's uber modded transporter and am running the EML solid plate rectifier with the 6h30dr supertubes. The sound is incredibly punchy and linear...it may be a little too much of a good thing. I am looking to add a small amount of warmth and increased air and density to instruments and voices. Anyone have suggestions for tube changes, (or power cord)??? Thank you!!!!!
Dave
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I would think you have a lot of density to instruments with that combo? For more air and a bit of warmth you may want to look for a pair of RCA Blackplate 6CG7's.
Also, I recently did a shootout on power cords for the TP. You can find it in the review section. What power cord are you using now?
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I am using a cord made by a local audiophile...thanks for the recommendation!
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I own Dan's uber modded transporter and am running the EML solid plate rectifier with the 6h30dr supertubes. The sound is incredibly punchy and linear...it may be a little too much of a good thing. I am looking to add a small amount of warmth and increased air and density to instruments and voices. Anyone have suggestions for tube changes, (or power cord)??? Thank you!!!!!
Dave
Dave,
I posted earlier that the hyperdrive mod pushed my faves, the DR's, out of the picture too. They were too much punch, too much of a good thing. Now with the beta testing of the octal adapters I like RCA Silver label 6SN7's (and still love Raytheon black plate 6CG7's). I'm hoping to hear my used Ken-Rad 6SN7's this weekend, and hear George and David's reviews of the other octals.
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Dave, I haven't heard the EML solid plate so cannot really comment on how it matches with signal tubes. In terms of pairing 6H30DR's with other rectifiers I've found them to be less detailed and on the warm sound. The 6N1P's are more detailed but probably be too harsh, I would go along the direction David suggested but widen it up the include 6BQ7's if you're unable to find 6CG7's. I'm currently burning in mods to my amp and preserving my favorite tubes by using an old 5U4G and a really cheap pair on NOS RCA 6CG7's - and this combination works very well together.
Phil
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I'm anxiously awaiting my MW Transporter (with Plat. mods) from Dan, but have been following these forums and trying to learn from all this wealth of experience. If possible, what has been the reaction to using the 6sn7 tubes with the octal adaptors? I ask because although I have some very nice blackplate 6cg7's (I also use these in the pre section of my Cary SLI-80 integrated), I have some really nice pairs of 6sn7's that I could try (I'm really fond of Raytheon VT-231's and Ken Rad VT-231's).
So any updates/thoughts from those of you experimenting with 6sn7's will be most appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Randy
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I'm anxiously awaiting my MW Transporter (with Plat. mods) from Dan, but have been following these forums and trying to learn from all this wealth of experience. If possible, what has been the reaction to using the 6sn7 tubes with the octal adaptors? I ask because although I have some very nice blackplate 6cg7's (I also use these in the pre section of my Cary SLI-80 integrated), I have some really nice pairs of 6sn7's that I could try (I'm really fond of Raytheon VT-231's and Ken Rad VT-231's).
So any updates/thoughts from those of you experimenting with 6sn7's will be most appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Randy
Randy,
Both of those are great choices and are tubes I have in my collection.
The Raytheon's have just been lent out, but the Ken-Rad's or a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W metal base's will be first up when my adapters arrive.
George
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Randy et al,
The RCA silver label 6SN7's (w/ adapters of course) are my new favorite TP signal tubes. They retain the balance of the Raytheon 6CG7's while providing, for me, a slightly tighter bass and clearly more overall musicality (probably a slight warming in the midrange, but not enough to call itself out). Tone is very very nice. The gain is slightly higher than the 6CG7's but nowhere near the high gain of the 6N1P's. I tried the CBS/Hytron but on first blush found them a bit tubby in the bass, but will try again as I've moved things around. Right now some Ken-Rads are warming up for initial later listening tonight. (The Ken-Rads and CBS's are used). None of these are the Vt-231 variety, but I would guess your Raytheon and Sylvanias would be great! Zybar likes his Raytheons the best (in his Atma-sphere).
Edit: George chimed in while I was posting. :D
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My Cary integrated uses a pair of 6sn7's also, so I got about 4 pair of that tube that I really like, and as I mentioned, I use 6cg7's in the Cary's pre spot (rather than 6922's), so I'm set for a lot of tube rolling fun. But its great that both my amp and the MW Transporter uses the same tubes (the Cary uses a pair of tube rectifiers as well, basic is the 5u4, but right now I'm using a nice pair of Mazda gz32's).
I will likely just go thru my stash of 6cg7's in the Transporter once I get it burned in, but I really like a warm smooth sound, so I'll likely want to roll some of the 6sn7's in it soon.
Thanks again!
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I have a pair of the DR's on the way also that I luckily stumbled across---Cary has confirmed I can roll these into the amp also, so I'll be trying them in both the amp and the Transporter too.
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Hello All:
Thank you for all of your emails about the availability of the EML 5U4G mesh. We received a shipment today. We are also expecting more over the next couple of days as well. I will try my best to accomodate everyone, but quantities are limited. Please reply to info@tubesusa.com.
Best,
George
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Wayne's adapters are a major break through in tube rolling the Transporter :drool:
Thanks to George's kindness I was able to roll some 6SN7's into the TP last night. :D
Here is what I said to George and Ted last night:
WOW! I really was not prepared for that drastic a change I have only tried the Raytheon VT-231's (dual mica, flat plates) and there is so much more heft and weight in the midrange it is crazy. The tubes are equally as detailed, if not more so, than my RCA Cleartop 6CG7's but there is so much more midrange. It will take me a bit to get used to it as it is so different than what I have been hearing, but if really gives you that singer in the room type feeling. I also find the tubes to have a huge soundstage. More to come but wanted to give you the initial update.
I firmly believe the 6SN7's will be the way to go in the TP for me. Last night took my midrange, detail, imaging, and soundstaging to another level. I am sure some of this is due to the increase in plate size, as they almost look like mini rectifier tubes. At times it feels a bit heavy to me through the midrange but I think I just need to adjust to what I am hearing. There are also so many tube options in the 6SN7 family so we have a lot of flexability. I am quite excited for what this brings to the TP :thumb:
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I really glad you like them and that they fit :D
Ted's Transporter has a smaller opening cut out for the signal tubes. Both zybar and rydenfan said the hole in their casing was larger.
I was still worried because the diameter of the adapter is 26mm. Which is just a smidge wider than the 1 inch opening Ted measured.
Anyway, I'm working on the pair for zybar now. I am looking forward to all of your comments as you continue to roll 6SN7s and try them with different rectifiers.
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Wayne they are great and there is plenty of room. I will try and throw a few pics up when I get home tonight. I look forward to Zybar's comments on them.
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Here are a few pics with my 6CG7's and then the Tung Sol black glass 6SN7's with the adapters
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll152/dkimmell/DSC01556.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll152/dkimmell/DSC01560.jpg)
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Just received my Emission Labs 5U4G Mesh.
After all of those NOS and used tubes it's great to see nice packaging:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17931)
Where's my twin?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17930)
Much bigger than I expected but looks gorgeous!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17928)
Glowing nicely!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=17929)
First impressions are very positive - I'll give it some time to get accustomed to it and any burn in time, but I'm hoping this will replace my metal base GZ34 and help find a lower cost replacement.
NB
This came from George Lenz at Tubes USA, I can thoroughly recommend working with him - he'll give you an honest position on availability and he's professional to deal with.
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Wow, that glow is very very kewl (sorry, poor simile).
And listening to sides 3 and 4 of the White Album no less. :thumb:
The size will balance out the tall Wayne octal adapters!
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Looks great Phil :thumb: Can't wait to see what you think of it...
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I finally moved my MW TP to my home system out of the beach house, which doesn't get as much use in the winter. So now I have time to roll tubes, finally.
One interesting coincidence is that my headphone amp, the Woo Audio WA6, uses the same rectifier (5AR4) as the MW TP.
So my tube rolling possibilities just multiplied.
I bought a Sophia Electric 274B tube for the WA6, described on the Woo site as "a premium rectifier tube for a 5U4/5R4/5AR4 direct replacement with 3X longer plate structure." This tube makes a *big* improvement with the head amp. Any reason it would NOT work in the MW TP?
Second question. I tried an Amperex GZ34 metal base in the headphone amp, and the output sounded congested. Any reason not to try this tube in the MW TP?
Finally, can someone recommend a source for the DRs? I'm looking to score a pair to play with before I send the TP out again for the power supply mod. Now that the TP is in the home system I don't want to part with it...
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http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/NOSTubes.html (use the tabs on bottom and choose 6H30. the DR's are at the top. he has 10 of them).
The Amperex metal base GZ34 is a great candidate for the TP. :thumb: I'm worried that the 274B is wrong.....Check with Dan. Beautiful tube, though! :)
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Wow, that glow is very very kewl (sorry, poor simile).
And listening to sides 3 and 4 of the White Album no less. :thumb:
The size will balance out the tall Wayne octal adapters!
Ted - the EML tube not only looks great but sounds even better, it's very very addictive.
Another advantage I'm noticing is that the height of the tube is generating heat away from the TP, whereas my mb GZ43 generates heat closer to the TP - I'm noticing that the top case is running a lot cooler. With the Octal converter's also adding height this will also function the same and reduce heat? I understand that the top case functions as a heat sink for the tubes, but would assume that any mechanism to reduce heat has to be good?
As an earlier adopter I'm just a 1 inch guy also, :( so will need to get the job done before going down the Octal path.
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http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/NOSTubes.html (use the tabs on bottom and choose 6H30. the DR's are at the top. he has 10 of them).
The Amperex metal base GZ34 is a great candidate for the TP. :thumb: I'm worried that the 274B is wrong.....Check with Dan. Beautiful tube, though! :)
Great... Thanks, Ted.
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Wow, that glow is very very kewl (sorry, poor simile).
And listening to sides 3 and 4 of the White Album no less. :thumb:
The size will balance out the tall Wayne octal adapters!
Ted - the EML tube not only looks great but sounds even better, it's very very addictive.
Another advantage I'm noticing is that the height of the tube is generating heat away from the TP, whereas my mb GZ43 generates heat closer to the TP - I'm noticing that the top case is running a lot cooler. With the Octal converter's also adding height this will also function the same and reduce heat? I understand that the top case functions as a heat sink for the tubes, but would assume that any mechanism to reduce heat has to be good?
As an earlier adopter I'm just a 1 inch guy also, :( so will need to get the job done before going down the Octal path.
So you are really liking the tube Phil? Can you compare and contrast it to your metal base yet?
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Wow, that glow is very very kewl (sorry, poor simile).
And listening to sides 3 and 4 of the White Album no less. :thumb:
The size will balance out the tall Wayne octal adapters!
Ted - the EML tube not only looks great but sounds even better, it's very very addictive.
Another advantage I'm noticing is that the height of the tube is generating heat away from the TP, whereas my mb GZ43 generates heat closer to the TP - I'm noticing that the top case is running a lot cooler. With the Octal converter's also adding height this will also function the same and reduce heat? I understand that the top case functions as a heat sink for the tubes, but would assume that any mechanism to reduce heat has to be good?
As an earlier adopter I'm just a 1 inch guy also, :( so will need to get the job done before going down the Octal path.
So you are really liking the tube Phil? Can you compare and contrast it to your metal base yet?
David, I'm being a little cautious as I'm getting used to mods made to my amp and also like to absorb changes, as I always have an initial response to tube rolling changes and have (in the past) been known to change my opinion after living with different tubes for a longer period. I don't want to send you guys down the wrong path. To put things in context I'm also a LASIK pioneer, they considered me unsuitable candidate initially as they claimed that I expected and demanded perfection which they couldn't guarantee - they were right, but we went ahead with the procedure anyway. The reason I mention this is to paint the background that I am very sensitive to small changes, and always looking for perfection in music reproduction. If I loved Bose I'd have more money in the bank!
I've got/tried almost every rectifier tube except the GZ37, and ultimately prefer the metal base GZ34 - to me it's just more musical, smooth and does everything well. I'm sure we all have different versions of this tube with different ages also, which makes it difficult to have a common bench mark. The only benchmark I have is a NOS black base double getter GZ34 that is supposed to be the best of its kind, my metal base beats this so I assume it's a good one. My tube rolling strategy with the TP has evolved into fixing the rectifier tube as the base, and roll the signal tubes to suit my tastes/mood etc, consequently the mb has been the defacto standard for the last 9 months.
If you consider that I find the difference between 5U4G/5U4GB/GZ32/GZ34 is incremental, in comparison I find the improvement the EML 5U4G makes to be significant in my system. I'll spend more time over the weekend in order to articulate this but it is very musical and emotionally involving - so much so I'm spending too much time listening to music and being drawn into it. My minimum expectation was to find a backup for my mb, I believe the EML is superior and significantly less expensive. On this basis I would not hesitate to recommend it.
I didn't think the MW TP could get any better than it did, it's scary good now - I started down the MW path a few years ago with a Sony CDP, in an attempt to get rid of digititus, the TP has eliminated this completely and added a more musical engaging element as a bonus.
Trust this helps.
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Guys,
Can you remind me how much the EML tube costs?
Thanks,
George
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The EML costs $209.
I got mine on Sunday from George who was gracious enough to drop it off (we live 15 minutes apart) and who is very knowledgeable about tubes and circuits (we spent around 45 minutes listening to my system and talking). He has some other interesting products as well, I've discovered.
Initial impressions of the tube are positive (in my Modwright Sony 9100 - yes, David, I know I need to move into the computer age :lol: ) but I need a bit more time to form my impressions as I've made some other changes to my system (utilizing my usual HW GZ37 for constant parameters) and will be getting back to the EML today.
As others have noted it is a very beautiful tube!
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Phil, thanks for the detail.
Rob, please let me know what you think of the tube since you are a big fan of the HW GZ37. and I didnt say anything about your antiquated cd player :wink:
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One of the other TP owners that has the EML is Ken (Bigfish), who has also carried out a longer term mb/EML comparison, the EML is now his preferred rectifier tube. He may want to comment further on this.
I've just had some Walter Trout and Steve Morse in the background, you can hear the connection Walter has with his guitar but the Steve Morse stuff still sounds as mechanical as ever - bottom line is that it doesn't add any emotion were it never existed in the first place :icon_lol:
The UPS price for the EML is $225, hand delivery is free!
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I purchased an EML 5U4G Mesh Tube in mid-December and broke it in for nearly 100 hours before seriously comparing it to my MB GZ-34. My preferred tube was the EML 5U4G and I left it in place for several weeks until I received a message from Phil asking if I had gone back to run another listening comparison. I repeated the MB GZ-34 to EML 5U4G comparison with the same music and rolled the tubes a couple of times. The following are the PM comments I made to Phil after the test:
I would not respond to your question about the EML-5U4G tube until I ran another comparision to the MB GZ-34. I ran that comparison this morning. To my ears both tubes are very good, no doubt about it, but the EML is better than the MB in my system. They are very similar but music with the EML sounds like there is just a little more life, or air or something to the music. Could I hear the difference in a blind test? Yes, I think I could!
I don't take the responsibility of making this recommendation lightly but I definitely can make the recommendation that you purchase the EML 5U4G. I will be very surprised if you are not very happy.
I am really glad to hear that Phil is pleased with the initial results from the EML tube. You guys that own and love the MB GZ-34 owe it to yourselves to try the EML Mesh 5U4G.
Ken
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Sounds like the tube is a real winner, and the size of it would help balance out my new adapters :lol:
For me the Metal Base 5AR4's had a hump in the midbass that I could not get passed. I believe Ted experienced this as well. I am very much wanting to hear this tube once things settle in my system for a bit. It seems to be a great alternative to a rapidly rising 5AR4. I also think it is cool that this is a current production tube, hopefully a sign of things to come :thumb:
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I purchased an EML 5U4G Mesh Tube in mid-December
Ken,
Did you purchase the Mesh or solid plate EML?
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Sounds like the tube is a real winner, and the size of it would help balance out my new adapters :lol:
Hey, you stole that from me 13 posts up from yours!!! :duel: :D
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I purchased an EML 5U4G Mesh Tube in mid-December
Ken,
Did you purchase the Mesh or solid plate EML?
Hello Nick:
Mine is exactly as the one in Phil's pictures - The Mesh Version.
Ken
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I finally moved my MW TP to my home system out of the beach house, which doesn't get as much use in the winter. So now I have time to roll tubes, finally.
One interesting coincidence is that my headphone amp, the Woo Audio WA6, uses the same rectifier (5AR4) as the MW TP.
So my tube rolling possibilities just multiplied.
I bought a Sophia Electric 274B tube for the WA6, described on the Woo site as "a premium rectifier tube for a 5U4/5R4/5AR4 direct replacement with 3X longer plate structure." This tube makes a *big* improvement with the head amp. Any reason it would NOT work in the MW TP?
Second question. I tried an Amperex GZ34 metal base in the headphone amp, and the output sounded congested. Any reason not to try this tube in the MW TP?
Finally, can someone recommend a source for the DRs? I'm looking to score a pair to play with before I send the TP out again for the power supply mod. Now that the TP is in the home system I don't want to part with it...
Amidst all the Octal and EML excitement I wanted to bump up the Sophia Electric - I saw great reviews (on the Head-Fi forum I believe) of it, if Dan gives you the :thumb: on this please let us know how you get on with it.
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Thanks, Ken...
I've been listening to my recently acquired mesh plate EML and my impressions are in line with those of others fortunate to have this special rectifier.
My struggle has been between the MB GZ34 and the very special Tung-Sol 5U4G VT-231. The first conveys an excellent soundstage and is more forgiving with lesser quality recordings. The latter truly shines in detail and precision, particularly with better recorded sources. For the last several months these two rectifiers have been constantly swapped predicated upon the listening venue.
My hope was that the EML mesh plate would bridge the gap between the image and soundstage depth of the MB GZ34 and the detail and precision of the VV-231.
So far, with only a few hours on the EML, I'm most surprised with its qualities of timing and pace. Soundstage is excellent as is detail, but the EML seems to have a speed that the others do not match. The temporal space around notes seems to rise and decay with much more precision. This creates a sound that is very musical and gratifying.
There is a long way to go, but so far I'm thrilled with the performance of the EML.
As others have noticed, this is one spectacular work of art to behold.
...and very nice to hear as well.
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Hi guys,
I'm happy that a few folks are now starting to confirm my positive thoughts on the EML mesh.... to me, it was head and shoulders above anything else I tried.... apart from the elusively expensive MB GZ34, which I'm now glad I didn't swing for.... almost.... phew...!
Since fitting the EML, I've pretty much forgotten about it and concentrated on other aspects of my system.... it just does its thing and does it very well.... I wish I felt that content about every other aspect of my system...!
Cheers,
Mark
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Hi guys,
I'm happy that a few folks are now starting to confirm my positive thoughts on the EML mesh.... to me, it was head and shoulders above anything else I tried.... apart from the elusively expensive MB GZ34, which I'm now glad I didn't swing for.... almost.... phew...!
Since fitting the EML, I've pretty much forgotten about it and concentrated on other aspects of my system.... it just does its thing and does it very well.... I wish I felt that content about every other aspect of my system...!
Cheers,
Mark
Thanks for putting us onto this Mark.
We're all trying to use different words to articulate what this tube does - but the common denominator I see is that it just makes great music, I believe even more so than the mb GZ34.
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Hi Phil.... you're very welcome.... but I believe Thalvor was the first to mention this tube?
I bought mine around the same time as Thalvors first post after research on head-fi.... I would still like to know how a Sophia Princess compares.... if indeed it does actually work in a Transporter? The EML and Sophia seem to be the two top tubes over on that forum? I see there are several alternative flashy carbon (read expensive) versions of the Sophia too?
Cheers for the weekend.... boy, I wish draft Bass tasted like it's supposed to here!
Mark
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arghhhhhhh....you guys are mean :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
I thought I was done with my metal base GZ34 and 6h30DR tubes.....now it seems that I need a mesh 5u4G and to start rolling 6sn7s :cry: :cry: :cry: :
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The vicious circle of tube rolling :wink:
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The vicious circle of tube rolling :wink:
Hey David... what are your latest impressions of the 6sn7's in your TP? Have you compared them head on with your better 6CG7's?
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arghhhhhhh....you guys are mean :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
I thought I was done with my metal base GZ34 and 6h30DR tubes.....now it seems that I need a mesh 5u4G and to start rolling 6sn7s :cry: :cry: :cry: :
Mike:
Tube rolling is so addictive and the ModWright Transporter makes it all too easy. :duh: It would be great if tubes did not affect the sound from our systems but fortunately and unfortunately they do. The only real down-side is the cost of the better sounding tubes. :bawl: I am really happy with the EML 5U4G Mesh combined with RCA 6CG7's (Kuhl Version) and therefore I going to let you guys have all the fun with the 6SN7's. :lol:
Ken
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The vicious circle of tube rolling :wink:
Hey David... what are your latest impressions of the 6sn7's in your TP? Have you compared them head on with your better 6CG7's?
Nick, I have compared them and it is not much of a comparison :o The Tung Sol black glass 6SN7's are out of this world. Keep in mind these tubes are about $450 (if you can find them) and the RCA Cleartop 6CG7's are about $48, so you would hope for some difference. All of the detail that I loved with the 6CG7's are there plus some, but the improvements in midrange warmth/musicality plus soundstaging are just amazing.
They sound so good that this is why I did not buy the hot new mesh plate rectifier that everyone is raving about. I am on the hunt for a pair of the Tung Sols and gonna put my cash towards them because I know how good they sound in my system.
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The vicious circle of tube rolling :wink:
Hey David... what are your latest impressions of the 6sn7's in your TP? Have you compared them head on with your better 6CG7's?
Nick, I have compared them and it is not much of a comparison :o The Tung Sol black glass 6SN7's are out of this world. Keep in mind these tubes are about $450 (if you can find them) and the RCA Cleartop 6CG7's are about $48, so you would hope for some difference. All of the detail that I loved with the 6CG7's are there plus some, but the improvements in midrange warmth/musicality plus soundstaging are just amazing.
They sound so good that this is why I did not buy the hot new mesh plate rectifier that everyone is raving about. I am on the hunt for a pair of the Tung Sols and gonna put my cash towards them because I know how good they sound in my system.
Not very surprising results David.
The Tung Sol black glass, round plates are pretty much universally looked upon as the best 6SN7 tube ever made.
That being said, let us know if you prefer the more modest Raytheon and Slyvania 6SN7 tubes over the Cleartops.
Wayne said I should have my adapters early next week and I am :drool: :drool: with anticipation.
George
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Dave, Are you using the TS 6sn7 with your HW GZ37 or an MB GZ34?
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George, I will let you know this weekend. That is #1 on my list :D
I cant wait to see what you think of the adapters :thumb:
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Dave, Are you using the TS 6sn7 with your HW GZ37 or an MB GZ34?
HW GZ37
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I just ordered a mesh plate this morning, and will report back as well. I'm hoping a couple of George's loaner 6SN7's (espec. the round plates) make their way here as they move up the Coast back to new England. :drool: I'll be able to report on a mesh plate/round plates combo.
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Sweeet Ted! I cant wait to see what you think of the mesh plate. I guess I need to stop being cheap and try one as well :wink:
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I just ordered a mesh plate this morning, and will report back as well. I'm hoping a couple of George's loaner 6SN7's (espec. the round plates) make their way here as they move up the Coast back to new England. :drool: I'll be able to report on a mesh plate/round plates combo.
Looking forward to hearing your assessment, Ted. This combo could be a popular destination for many of us. I listened to my mesh plate with some black plate 6CG7's last evening and was extremely pleased with the sound. Still no turbo mod though. Looking like that will happen mid February as I have some travel to distract me from the empty space on the rack while the unit is with Dan.
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I just ordered a mesh plate this morning, and will report back as well. I'm hoping a couple of George's loaner 6SN7's (espec. the round plates) make their way here as they move up the Coast back to new England. :drool: I'll be able to report on a mesh plate/round plates combo.
It's going to be interesting to hear if the EML/6SN7 combo is overkill or not? Or if the EML alone gets the job done for less hassle and less money?
At the same time If the coveted Tung Sol black glass, round plates are a necessity to get the benefits of this approach then the octal path will not be a practical option - so any feedback on the more readily available 6SN7's would be helpful.
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Phil,
Believe me I don't want to fall in love with a gold digger either. :D I have several modest 6SN7's that I'll test, too, including my current fave, a pair of RCA Silver label 6Sn7GT's I bought on Ebay for $50/pair.
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I bought a Sophia Electric 274B tube for the WA6, described on the Woo site as "a premium rectifier tube for a 5U4/5R4/5AR4 direct replacement with 3X longer plate structure." This tube makes a *big* improvement with the head amp. Any reason it would NOT work in the MW TP?
Amidst all the Octal and EML excitement I wanted to bump up the Sophia Electric - I saw great reviews (on the Head-Fi forum I believe) of it, if Dan gives you the :thumb: on this please let us know how you get on with it.
Dan said no go on the Sophia tube. But I can say that the WA6 headphone amp has some amazing synergy with the MW TP. I had some memorable listening sessions over the weekend. (I live in a Manhattan apartment with my family, so it's not easy to listen to my speaker rig at anything approaching reference levels. So the headphone system is quite handy.)
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I bought a Sophia Electric 274B tube for the WA6, described on the Woo site as "a premium rectifier tube for a 5U4/5R4/5AR4 direct replacement with 3X longer plate structure." This tube makes a *big* improvement with the head amp. Any reason it would NOT work in the MW TP?
Amidst all the Octal and EML excitement I wanted to bump up the Sophia Electric - I saw great reviews (on the Head-Fi forum I believe) of it, if Dan gives you the :thumb: on this please let us know how you get on with it.
Dan said no go on the Sophia tube. But I can say that the WA6 headphone amp has some amazing synergy with the MW TP. I had some memorable listening sessions over the weekend. (I live in a Manhattan apartment with my family, so it's not easy to listen to my speaker rig at anything approaching reference levels. So the headphone system is quite handy.)
Thanks for letting us know about this.
On the negative side it's one less option to explore, on the plus side one less option to chase down.
The only 'headphone' listening I do is when traveling with a pair of Etymotics, which I love. I would imagine that a good headphone amp and phones is very source revealing, and the MW TP will excel.
In the meantime I did an extended AB comparison with the EML and the mb GSZ34 over the weekend. All my other rectifier tubes (including the mb) have been put in a box leaving only the EML, after listening to the EML I found I no longer enjoyed the mb. I hope others will find the same synergy.
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Wow Phil! What are some of the differences that stood out to you over the weekend?
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Wow Phil! What are some of the differences that stood out to you over the weekend?
Nothings changed David, I just wanted to do an AB with the metal base to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke up you guys.
At the same time my amp has had major upgrade surgery to the power supply and a few new caps, I wanted to make sure that this wasn't a variable and this is why I did the AB. It became very apparent that the EML was night and day with the mb - all the feedback from the other guys (Thalvor, Owenmd, NickS, Bigfish) nails it. The EML has the strengths of the Tung Sol 5U4G (detail) and mb (smoothness, soundstage), and them some by just being very musical. It was a no brainer to symbolically pack away my old rectifier tubes, the synergies with the rest of my system are just so obvious. Up until know I've had the mb as my principle rectifier tube and rolled the others on an occasional basis, now I no longer need to do this as there's no comparison. In particular well recorded percussion, vocals and acoustic guitar sound very 'live', I had Buddy Holly risen from the grave and playing live here yesterday morning 8). What surprised me most of all was that the mb sounds so dull and lifeless now, whereas a week ago it was my favorite.
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Wow Phil! What are some of the differences that stood out to you over the weekend?
Nothings changed David, I just wanted to do an AB with the metal base to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke up you guys.
At the same time my amp has had major upgrade surgery to the power supply and a few new caps, I wanted to make sure that this wasn't a variable and this is why I did the AB. It became very apparent that the EML was night and day with the mb - all the feedback from the other guys (Thalvor, Owenmd, NickS, Bigfish) nails it. The EML has the strengths of the Tung Sol 5U4G (detail) and mb (smoothness, soundstage), and them some by just being very musical. It was a no brainer to symbolically pack away my old rectifier tubes, the synergies with the rest of my system are just so obvious. Up until know I've had the mb as my principle rectifier tube and rolled the others on an occasional basis, now I no longer need to do this as there's no comparison. In particular well recorded percussion, vocals and acoustic guitar sound very 'live', I had Buddy Holly risen from the grave and playing live here yesterday morning 8). What surprised me most of all was that the mb sounds so dull and lifeless now, whereas a week ago it was my favorite.
Phil:
I am happy to hear that I did not mislead you with my comments about the EML 5U4G Mesh Tube in my system. The MB GZ-34 was a huge step-up from the Kuhl Version of the GZ-32 and change to the EML was at least as significant.
Sorry MB dealers but I believe your sales to Transporter owners are going to evaporate! :lol: :thumb:
Ken
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Wow Phil! What are some of the differences that stood out to you over the weekend?
Nothings changed David, I just wanted to do an AB with the metal base to make sure I wasn't blowing smoke up you guys.
At the same time my amp has had major upgrade surgery to the power supply and a few new caps, I wanted to make sure that this wasn't a variable and this is why I did the AB. It became very apparent that the EML was night and day with the mb - all the feedback from the other guys (Thalvor, Owenmd, NickS, Bigfish) nails it. The EML has the strengths of the Tung Sol 5U4G (detail) and mb (smoothness, soundstage), and them some by just being very musical. It was a no brainer to symbolically pack away my old rectifier tubes, the synergies with the rest of my system are just so obvious. Up until know I've had the mb as my principle rectifier tube and rolled the others on an occasional basis, now I no longer need to do this as there's no comparison. In particular well recorded percussion, vocals and acoustic guitar sound very 'live', I had Buddy Holly risen from the grave and playing live here yesterday morning 8). What surprised me most of all was that the mb sounds so dull and lifeless now, whereas a week ago it was my favorite.
Phil:
I am happy to hear that I did not mislead you with my comments about the EML 5U4G Mesh Tube in my system. The MB GZ-34 was a huge step-up from the Kuhl Version of the GZ-32 and change to the EML was at least as significant.
Sorry MB dealers but I believe your sales to Transporter owners are going to evaporate! :lol: :thumb:
Ken
I can only hope that the silly prices on the MB GZ-34 continue to hold as some of us sell our tubes. aa
George
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Hello All:
I think a brief note is in order here regarding how the Emission Labs 5U4G tubes are packaged. The reason for this is that I have received an email questioning weather the tube was used or new. I think that was a fair question, but I wanted to clarify this issue for all that have received the 5U4's in a plain box as opposed to the Emission Labs hard box. The 5U4's come two in a box, so I naturally have to take one out and send it in a plain box. this is an arbitrary decision on my part. The tubes themselves are brand new, and have the full factory warranty. This has only been my practice when selling rectifier tubes, since most applications call for one and not two tubes. I hope this clears things up for those looking at buying one of these rectifier tubes in the future. To all those whom have purchased tubes from TubesUSA, thank you all for your patronage and support.
Best Regards,
George
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Hello All:
I think a brief note is in order here regarding how the Emission Labs 5U4G tubes are packaged. The reason for this is that I have received an email questioning weather the tube was used or new. I think that was a fair question, but I wanted to clarify this issue for all that have received the 5U4's in a plain box as opposed to the Emission Labs hard box. The 5U4's come two in a box, so I naturally have to take one out and send it in a plain box. this is an arbitrary decision on my part. The tubes themselves are brand new, and have the full factory warranty. This has only been my practice when selling rectifier tubes, since most applications call for one and not two tubes. I hope this clears things up for those looking at buying one of these rectifier tubes in the future. To all those whom have purchased tubes from TubesUSA, thank you all for your patronage and support.
Best Regards,
George
First let me say, George, that I am loving this rectifier!
The only inconvenience with the forfeit of the original box is not having a secure place to store the tube in its rare departures from the MWTP. Otherwise your packaging was excellent and tube arrived in perfect condition. Perhaps EML might consider single tube boxing in the future as not everyone requires two of these monsters.
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George, are you saying, though, that every other owner gets a nice box (like Phil's pix); just luck of the draw if you're odd or even?
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Actually Ted, I try to provide the actual EML boxes for those who live the furthest away from NY(in most cases). My thinking was that there were usually more hands involved in the transfer, and I wanted the people who were the furthest away to have every benefit of the tube getting to it's destination intact. Lastly, I do insure each tube with the carrier in the event that something unfortunate happens. I'm just trying to instill some risk management here.
Best,
George
P.S. Yes Ted, you drew the original box :)
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George,
You are a very intelligent man, with all the right answers. :lol: Thanks.
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I shouldn't have posted the photograph - it was just a refreshing change not to get a 6 inch square box stuffed with newspaper and a vintage tube, so my apologies George for stirring this up.
When the mail lady arrived the outer box George used was big enough for a weeks supply of groceries! He does a great job with packing - EML box or not.
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I like my chances of getting the original box! Oregon is a long way and further than Ted! 8)
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I like my chances of getting the original box! Oregon is a long way and further than Ted! 8)
I had George ship it to my Hawaii home. :D
(Hell, if I sold all these other rectifiers, like the metal bases, I could probably afford a Hawaii home).
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You can always buy a matching pair - his & hers. This will get you the box!
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I like my chances of getting the original box! Oregon is a long way and further than Ted! 8)
I had George ship it to my Hawaii home. :D
(Hell, if I sold all these other rectifiers, like the metal bases, I could probably afford a Hawaii home).
Rectifiers are the least of what you have laying around that you need to sell :lol:
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Man, I need to get in on some of this 6SN7 swapping...anyone have any quads they'd like to send out for a loan? I have some RCA Grey Glass and KenRad Black Glass (both VT231's and very nice tubes) I'll send for a demo swap...
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Art, I have is a pair of Tung Sol black glass 6SN7's that I purchased this weekend. You are welcome to borrow them anytime but it sounds like you need more than a pair.
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Man, I need to get in on some of this 6SN7 swapping...anyone have any quads they'd like to send out for a loan? I have some RCA Grey Glass and KenRad Black Glass (both VT231's and very nice tubes) I'll send for a demo swap...
Sorry Art, I only have pairs.
George
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Man, I need to get in on some of this 6SN7 swapping...anyone have any quads they'd like to send out for a loan? I have some RCA Grey Glass and KenRad Black Glass (both VT231's and very nice tubes) I'll send for a demo swap...
Sorry Art, I only have pairs.
George
Same here. Sorry.
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Yeah, my VAC's use 4 per amp 6SN7 (2 drivers and 2 input/inverters) so it makes tube rolling serious business! Still not as bad as the KT88's - 8 per side!
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My EML mesh plate showed up today. It's a beautiful tube! :drool: Right now I'm thawing it out before i install it. The package was sitting out, on a snow-covered bench, all day (wrapped in USPS plastic bag). Anyway.....all you EML vets out there: I have little experience with new-new tubes, so how many hours before it is worthy of serious listening? Thx
Ted
Edit:
A couple of pics. Wayne's V1 octal adapters now look reasonably small. :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18069)
The glow from the EML mesh plate is somethin' else. 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18070)
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Doesn't need much time Ted - I heard a difference straight away, and started to pick up the nuances over the next few days after installation.
It's refreshing after all of those 50's tubes to get a rectifier that's 21st century, and yes, it does look better in the flesh.
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:drool: Nice photos Ted. :thumb:
All this EML love is making me consider cutting a hole in the top of my TV stand to accommodate the giant! :green:
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Ted:
I really hope you enjoy the EML-5U4G Mesh Tube. It is in my Transporter to stay until you boys find a new must have Rectifier! :lol:
Ken
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Got mine yesterday too. Really nice right off. Seemed to open up after a couple hours even more. A big improvement over the brown base mullard I'd been using.
George deserves his stellar reputation.. really quick to get here.
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My EML mesh plate showed up today. It's a beautiful tube! :drool: Right now I'm thawing it out before i install it. The package was sitting out, on a snow-covered bench, all day (wrapped in USPS plastic bag). Anyway.....all you EML vets out there: I have little experience with new-new tubes, so how many hours before it is worthy of serious listening? Thx
Ted
Well Ted, it appears that you are first up with the "full monty" MWTP -> Hypermod/Octals/EML. Once your new EML is run in a bit, let us all know how it sounds...
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Well Ted, it appears that you are first up with the "full monty" MWTP -> Hypermod/Octals/EML. Once your new EML is run in a bit, let us all know how it sounds...
Will do. And the nice Vt-231's from Zybar, via David, are due to arrive today! :drool:
I listened last night and it surely changed over the course of a couple of hours. The cold start had a tubbiness to the bass that was basically gone by the end of the night. The sweetness, the organic quality to Bill Frisell's guitar, to Hammond organ, to Charlie Haden's bass, was palpable already. So was the increase in soundstage depth, albeit slight (my ss depth is already a strong point). I'm gonna hold off a full comparo until 100 hrs (weekend or Monday).
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Well Ted, it appears that you are first up with the "full monty" MWTP -> Hypermod/Octals/EML. Once your new EML is run in a bit, let us all know how it sounds...
Will do. And the nice Vt-231's from Zybar, via David, are due to arrive today! :drool:
I listened last night and it surely changed over the course of a couple of hours. The cold start had a tubbiness to the bass that was basically gone by the end of the night. The sweetness, the organic quality to Bill Frisell's guitar, to Hammond organ, to Charlie Haden's bass, was palpable already. So was the increase in soundstage depth, albeit slight (my ss depth is already a strong point). I'm gonna hold off a full comparo until 100 hrs (weekend or Monday).
When I kick back and listen to the EML the word I find that initially comes to mind is analogue, but this doesn't quite fit. The word that does fit is organic - this to me embodies what this tube adds to the TP.
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Well Ted, it appears that you are first up with the "full monty" MWTP -> Hypermod/Octals/EML. Once your new EML is run in a bit, let us all know how it sounds...
Will do. And the nice Vt-231's from Zybar, via David, are due to arrive today! :drool:
I listened last night and it surely changed over the course of a couple of hours. The cold start had a tubbiness to the bass that was basically gone by the end of the night. The sweetness, the organic quality to Bill Frisell's guitar, to Hammond organ, to Charlie Haden's bass, was palpable already. So was the increase in soundstage depth, albeit slight (my ss depth is already a strong point). I'm gonna hold off a full comparo until 100 hrs (weekend or Monday).
Very interested to see if you feel the same as David in regards to the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates.
I should have a set of adapters tomorrow and will have some fun this weekend.
George
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Guys:
Please keep the comments coming concerning your experiences with the 6SN7 tubes. If I were you guys and I had a pair of the Tung Sol Round Plates I also would want to how this ultimate 6SN7 would perform. Like some of the others I am sitting on the side lines on the 6SN7's because the round plates are just too insanely expensive!
Thanks,
Ken
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Ken, I was fortunate to listen to quite a few different 6SN7's over the last week or so. Yes, the Tung Sol's were my favorite; however, all the 6SN7's I listened to were very good. My second favorite pair was actually a pair of RCA's and I dont believe they are very expensive at all. I believe Ted scored a pair for around $70. I can tell you that while I ultimately liked the Tung Sols enough to throw down $370 every pair was good. Furthermore, and probably more importantly for those on the sidelines, I would rate even my least favorite pair of 6SN7's about my favorite 6CG7's.
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I would rate even my least favorite pair of 6SN7's about my favorite 6CG7's.
David could you clarify this last statement a little? thanks.
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Guys:
Please keep the comments coming concerning your experiences with the 6SN7 tubes. If I were you guys and I had a pair of the Tung Sol Round Plates I also would want to how this ultimate 6SN7 would perform. Like some of the others I am sitting on the side lines on the 6SN7's because the round plates are just too insanely expensive!
Thanks,
Ken
Like your new avatar Ken :thumb:
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David and Ted:
As Nick and Phil have previously stated it will be interesting to know your reactions to the EML Mesh Rectifier with the 6SN7's.
If the octal tubes turn out the be the way to go we might should ask Dan if we could convert the tube heater voltage to 12 volts? This would allow us to use the 12SN7's which are sonically identical to the 6SN7's at about 50% of the price. I know that the Mapletree Preamp has a switch on the back of the unit that allows the user to select their choice of the 6SN7 or 12SN7 tubes.
Thanks again for all of your investigation into the best sounding tubes for the Transporter. So very many of us have benefited by your exploration! :beer:
Ken
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I would rate even my least favorite pair of 6SN7's about my favorite 6CG7's.
David could you clarify this last statement a little? thanks.
I meant above my favorite 6SN7's :duh: sorry for the typo...
I was trying to say that even my least favorite pair of the 6SN7's I preferred over my favorite of 6CG7's
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Thanks bud, I thought so but wanted to be sure...
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Guys:
Please keep the comments coming concerning your experiences with the 6SN7 tubes. If I were you guys and I had a pair of the Tung Sol Round Plates I also would want to how this ultimate 6SN7 would perform. Like some of the others I am sitting on the side lines on the 6SN7's because the round plates are just too insanely expensive!
Thanks,
Ken
Ok, I installed the adapters from Wayne about 1 hour ago and used a set of RCA Gray Glass VT-231's from the 1940's to start with. The change in sound between these 6SN7's and the 6H30DR "Super Tubes" is best explained by this photo comparison:
6H30DR "Super Tubes"
(http://images.askmen.com/photos/gisele-bundchen/84212.jpg)
RCA Gray Glass VT-231's
(http://images.askmen.com/photos/denise-milani/62769.jpg)
Both are easy to listen, sound great, and can be enjoyed for hours and hours, but the 6SN7's are more voluptuous and full sounding, without losing any detail, speed, or clarity. The 6SN7's also have a more solid feeling in the bass and provide a stronger foundation for the rest of the music.
Of course, these are just my initial thoughts and impressions and I reserve the right to change my opinion as I get more time under my belt.
George
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can be enjoyed for hours and hours,
George
Show off!! :D I would last 10 minutes. :o :icon_lol:
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George:
To these old eyes I found both of your examples to be keepers! :inlove: I look forward to further comments! :thumb:
Ken
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can be enjoyed for hours and hours,
George
Show off!! :D I would last 10 minutes. :o :icon_lol:
Did the tube goodie package arrive Ted?
George
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I can go one better than you guys and listen to both pairs at the same time :weights:
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Yes, it did. I'm listening to the Tung Sol round plates and they are spectactular so far. Very wet, organic and musical, yet detailed and the bass control is excellent, better than any other signal tube in there so far......maybe the EML helps. :D
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My MW Transporter arrived yesterday; got it hooked up and running :D. I have to admit that right out of the box the sound seemed a bit to 'thin' (for want of a better description) in the midbass, lower base, but has incredible detail. After a couple of hours, I rolled in a pair of CBS blackplate 6CG7's (saving my really good tubes for post burn-in, but I have previously found these CBS blackplates to come close to the sound of the Raytheon blackplates) and things improved. Now after about a total of 15-16 hours things seem to be sounding much better. If it improves as much over the next few days as after these first few hours, I will be a happy camper indeed :thumb:! So far I'm just using the 5U4GB rectifier tube Dan sent went the unit; I have a number of other 5U4GB's I can try; I also have some Mazda gz32's but I recall reading somewhere in this long thread that some users experienced some blown fuses using gz32's, so I'm not likely to try them for a while. I have 1 NOS, 50-60's vintage Mazda 5U4 (coke bottle shape) and some old RCA 5R4GY's that I want to try; I need to look again but I recall that the 5U4 is OK to try in the MW, and need to check on the 5R4GY's.
I can't wait for Wayne to have the octal adaptors available for purchase, as I have a few pair of juicy 6SN7's I can try (some Raytheon VT-231's, KenRad VT-231s (both clear glass and black glass) and a pair of Tung Sol's--not the famed round plates, but a pair that I found sounded pretty nice as driver tubes in my amp).
Thanks again to all of you for all the great info!
Randy
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My MW Transporter arrived yesterday; got it hooked up and running :D. I have to admit that right out of the box the sound seemed a bit to 'thin' (for want of a better description) in the midbass, lower base, but has incredible detail. After a couple of hours, I rolled in a pair of CBS blackplate 6CG7's (saving my really good tubes for post burn-in, but I have previously found these CBS blackplates to come close to the sound of the Raytheon blackplates) and things improved. Now after about a total of 15-16 hours things seem to be sounding much better. If it improves as much over the next few days as after these first few hours, I will be a happy camper indeed :thumb:! So far I'm just using the 5U4GB rectifier tube Dan sent went the unit; I have a number of other 5U4GB's I can try; I also have some Mazda gz32's but I recall reading somewhere in this long thread that some users experienced some blown fuses using gz32's, so I'm not likely to try them for a while. I have 1 NOS, 50-60's vintage Mazda 5U4 (coke bottle shape) and some old RCA 5R4GY's that I want to try; I need to look again but I recall that the 5U4 is OK to try in the MW, and need to check on the 5R4GY's.
I can't wait for Wayne to have the octal adaptors available for purchase, as I have a few pair of juicy 6SN7's I can try (some Raytheon VT-231's, KenRad VT-231s (both clear glass and black glass) and a pair of Tung Sol's--not the famed round plates, but a pair that I found sounded pretty nice as driver tubes in my amp).
Thanks again to all of you for all the great info!
Randy
Randy - Welcome to the MW TP world.
When we started to take delivery of the TP we did comment on the burn-in time, from what I recall it was around the 200-400 hour range? Anyway, it just gets better and better. A few GZ32 owners did have issues, at the same time I (and others) have not had a problem with it and would assume it depends on which GZ32 you have - just having received your TP though it's a wise move to leave it out of the mix at the moment.
You've joined the clan at an interesting time, with the EML tube and that 6SN7's you're going to have a lot of fun.
Please continue to share your tube rolling experiences - the more data points we have the better, and you're going to be a popular guy with all of those 6SN7's you have.
Have fun.
Phil
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My MW Transporter arrived yesterday; got it hooked up and running :D. I have to admit that right out of the box the sound seemed a bit to 'thin' (for want of a better description) in the midbass, lower base, but has incredible detail. After a couple of hours, I rolled in a pair of CBS blackplate 6CG7's (saving my really good tubes for post burn-in, but I have previously found these CBS blackplates to come close to the sound of the Raytheon blackplates) and things improved. Now after about a total of 15-16 hours things seem to be sounding much better. If it improves as much over the next few days as after these first few hours, I will be a happy camper indeed :thumb:! So far I'm just using the 5U4GB rectifier tube Dan sent went the unit; I have a number of other 5U4GB's I can try; I also have some Mazda gz32's but I recall reading somewhere in this long thread that some users experienced some blown fuses using gz32's, so I'm not likely to try them for a while. I have 1 NOS, 50-60's vintage Mazda 5U4 (coke bottle shape) and some old RCA 5R4GY's that I want to try; I need to look again but I recall that the 5U4 is OK to try in the MW, and need to check on the 5R4GY's.
I can't wait for Wayne to have the octal adaptors available for purchase, as I have a few pair of juicy 6SN7's I can try (some Raytheon VT-231's, KenRad VT-231s (both clear glass and black glass) and a pair of Tung Sol's--not the famed round plates, but a pair that I found sounded pretty nice as driver tubes in my amp).
Thanks again to all of you for all the great info!
Randy
Randy,
Based on what I have heard in the last 24 hours, rolling in some nice 6SN7's will have the bigger impact on the sound than spending lots of money on the rectifier tube.
When evaluating that comment, please keep in mind that I don't yet have the hyper-drive upgrade or the EML rectifier and I am using pretty much the best 6SN7 tubes out there.
George
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Randy,
Welcome to the Club! :thumb: As el presidente (small letters) I encourage your feedback and any off-the-wall suggestions. My first recommendation is the same as Phil's: take your time! The MW will continue to break-in for about 400 hours. Any tube rolling during that time will make your head explode. Any of those rectifiers will work, ymmw. Did you get the hypermodded Bybee'd full Monty unit? If so, the break-in may even be longer, although likely all of that is happening concurrently.
I think Wayne will be ready to sell the adapters once he gets final feedback from Zybar, Rydenfan and myself. I have V1 (can't accept V2 cuz my ealry model TP has smaller lid holes, until I get them recut) and am quite happy.
Tube rolling update:
I promised to leave the EML-adapter combo feedback alone until a little more break-in, but have to say that both bring about so much organic, woody musical nature that any MW TP owner needs to look at one or the other. I'm worried, however, about the combo cuz last night I started getting some boominess and tubbiness in the lower bass that I believe is from
the incredible bandwidth of the EML and round plate TS's. In other words, it's excited a room node that may be, on it's purest level, accurate as hell, but is a problem in my room. During this search any complete switching out of the EML or adapter-tubes just put me back in a colder more analytical world that I can't live in anymore. :) I was ready to throw in the towel (wayyyyyy too early) and then switched to one of George's highly regarded Sylvania VT-231 and voila, things snapped back in place. Sounds wonderful!
Stay tuned....I'm also thinking about Herbie's newer Ultrasonic tungsten tube dampers (his ealrier hal-o's sometimes overdamped a unit, but the feedback on the tungsten ones are all very positive), especially for the EML. That bug zapper is so large it has to be swaying in the wind. :)
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I would like to thank ted_b, rydenfan & zybar for all their comments on the adapters.
I also wish to thank the folks who PM'ed and emailed me asking about them.
The adapters that I have sent out so far, 3 pairs, have been prototypes. I wanted to make sure the concept would work, that it would be an improvement and that the adapters would hold up to tube rolling.
The first version, the one ted_b has, works but isn't very sturdy. The next version is far more sturdy.
I am still not satisfied with them in terms of construction. I have been and will continue to work on the adapters until I feel I can send them out with confidence that they would work in the field for many years
I recently received parts to build quite a few more pair and I will be working on these in the next weeks.
When they ARE ready for resale, I will post here and in my circle.
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Thanks guys; and thanks also to Wayne, I'll be ready when the adaptors are available.
I have the full platinum mod, but it is really rounding into shape already. My previous digi source is the Raysonic CD168 and to me it has a great warm sound (which I like), so the cold MW Transporter was being compared to that source--but I'm already pretty sure I'm not looking back--the wife gets the CD168 in the bedroom system aa!!
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Any Transporter owners that are going the octal route and want to unload their stash of DRs? I could use a back-up set for my 36.5 :wink:
Edit: Done. Thanks for the offers guys.
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Any Transporter owners that are going the octal route and want to unload their stash of DRs? I could use a back-up set for my 36.5 :wink:
I might make mine available.
I'll let you know.
George
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Although I only have a MW 36.5 (single box) and a MW Sony 9100 and don't have a Transporter yet, I've been posting on this thread because - while there are threads on the two former pieces - this one has become the primary source of tube info on MW gear, which all have similarities in their output stages and power supplies.
This is an update (and a short re-cap for those who might be new and haven't yet gotten through all 37 pages of this fun journey :D).
I've tried the following rectifiers in both the 36.5 and MW Sony 9100 (all NOS except for the Sovtek): Sovtek GZ34/5AR4 (stock tube), RCA 5U4GB, Tung Sol 5U4G, brown and black base Mullard GZ32, brown base Mullard GZ37, the High Wycombe GZ37, several different Mullard GZ34/5AR4s, an Amperex metal base GZ34/5AR4 and, recently, the EML 5U4G. I was able to try all but the Tung Sol, Amperex and EML in both pieces simultaneously and in all cases I found I didn't like using two of the same rectifiers (too limited and homogenized a sound).
The next result is that, for me, IMS, the best rectifier for the 36.5 is the GZ34/5AR4, primarily for it's tonal weight/density. The surprising part is that it is not the metal or fat base pieces I have but rather a regular black base Philips labelled Mullard from 1964 that is my favorite. This piece has the most even tonal and frequency balance and resolution of any of the more than half a dozen NOS GZ34s I've employed. Also interestingly, an early '60s regular black base Amperex labelled Mullard I have is very close in sound to the Amperex metal base (extremely refined, and airy); while one of my two Matsushita (Japanese Mullard) units from the '70s has the fullest bass and is on the level of some of the '60s Mullards I've tried. All of this seems to confirm what Andy at Vintage Tube Service told me some time ago: that it is the quality of the individual (GZ34) tube that most matters, not the construction type or year of manufacture. This particularly makes sense when one remembers that tubes are hand made.
My favorite rectifier for the MW Sony 9100 has been the High Wycombe GZ37 for it's large soundstage, resolution, refinement and tonal accuracy. Followed by the black base Mullard GZ32 which excels in imaging and refined, extended, airy and dimensional vocals. I recently received the EML 5U4G and had it in for a week, in which time it became clear that it is at least on the same level as the HW GZ37, and perhaps better. I say perhaps because a very short while after I re-inserted the HW the transport on the Sony stopped working so I wasn't able to do an ABA comparison. But my impressions are that the EML piece combines most of the best qualities of the HW GZ37 with those of the black base GZ32; having the relatively more forward (more pronounced leading edge transients) character and greater drive of the latter combined with the other above mentioned qualities of both tubes. I can see wanting to use the HW at times for it's slightly softer, more restrained quality but I can also see using the EML at least as often. It's fantastic that EML is making such a high quality tube, one that rivals the best of NOS.
Rob
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Hi Phil.... you're very welcome.... but I believe Thalvor was the first to mention this tube?
I bought mine around the same time as Thalvors first post after research on head-fi.... I would still like to know how a Sophia Princess compares.... if indeed it does actually work in a Transporter? The EML and Sophia seem to be the two top tubes over on that forum? I see there are several alternative flashy carbon (read expensive) versions of the Sophia too?
Cheers for the weekend.... boy, I wish draft Bass tasted like it's supposed to here!
Mark
Mark, brief thread hijack for my fellow Brit.
Talked to an old friend of mine today who lives in Staffs, he tells me that the draft bass we knew and loved no longer exists - it's now brewed all over the country and doesn't have the special ingredient (Burton water) anymore. I grew up on Marstons Pedigree but spent 7 years living in Germany before I moved here so got used to the Reinsheitsgebot. We have some great micro brews in Pittsburgh (and the Steelers), apart from this can't think of any other pluses :scratch: Enjoy the Grammy's - we Brits still make the best music and have the best humour :thumb: Thread hijack over. Phil
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Phil, I have tasted the decline of Bass stateside for quite awhile now. It has lead to an increase in my Newcastle consumption :wink:
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Rob, thanks so much for taking the time to post your thoughts :thumb: What you have to say about the EML holds special interest to me as we often have very similar experiences with tubes and are both big HW GZ37 fans. For you to say the EML is at least as good, if not better, is pretty strong. I guess I am going to have to pick one of these up this week...
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Hi Phil,
Sorry guys.... quick reply to the hijacker.... damn foreigners....!
Thanks.... that would explain it.... I haven't had a decent Bass in a long time now.... I always presumed it was some preservative crap they threw in it for the journey across the pond? Shame... Bass was always my.... if you could only have one beer for the rest of your life, which one would it be beer? Pedigree, Speckled Hen, and Old Hooky.... all phenomenal beers but getting very hard (and expensive) to find now.
I must say, in the last 2 years I've noticed some amazingly good micro-brews made here in the good old U S of A....well done for finally getting a clue! Ouch.... got a slap from my mid-western sweetheart for that one!
Worked in Aschaffenburg a few years ago and didn't try Reinsheltsgebot that I recall.... must try and find that.
Agreed on the music and humor thing.... if only everyone around me would agree too...!
Anyway.... I'm very interested in the EML / octul adapter combo in comparison to DR's.... I thought this spending madness was over.... but it seems not...? I might try a second EML in my Carina SET amp with the Transporter and see how that works.... might be interesting?
Cheers,
Mark
[/quote]
Mark, brief thread hijack for my fellow Brit.
Talked to an old friend of mine today who lives in Staffs, he tells me that the draft bass we knew and loved no longer exists - it's now brewed all over the country and doesn't have the special ingredient (Burton water) anymore. I grew up on Marstons Pedigree but spent 7 years living in Germany before I moved here so got used to the Reinsheitsgebot. We have some great micro brews in Pittsburgh (and the Steelers), apart from this can't think of any other pluses :scratch: Enjoy the Grammy's - we Brits still make the best music and have the best humour :thumb: Thread hijack over. Phil
[/quote]
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The combination of EML mesh plate 5U4G and octal adapter 6SN7's ...is magical. It has pushed my MW Transporter into a new musical realm that I am very excited about. The piece de resistance is the combination of EML and Tung Sol round plates (thanks George/Zybar for the loan, via David). WOW! How can a tube compliment provide even more detail than the Transporter has given me to date? I'm hearing ambient cues like voices (yes, I'm hearing voices... :) ) in the background of recordings, venue boundaries, etc. It's amazing, really, and all the while adding a rich organic woody color that makes the music that much more enjoyable. It's as if you were listening to tremendous daytime outdooor live music, but all the while realized that the sun was glaring a bit too much. Once the sunglasses went on the music, unchanged aurally, took on a much easier and calmer quality, yet could be appreciated as loud as ever. That's the feeling I get with this new combo.....and it's not just the expensive round plates. All the 6SN7's I've tried, with the EML recitfier powering the way, (my $40 RCA Silver labels, my newest NOS RCA VT-231's, and the rest of George's stash.....Sylvania VT-231's, Raytheons, RCA 6SN7GT's....) gave the Transporter a much more balanced yet rich quality.
I, for one, am not going back to nine pins on the TP. I'm done tube rolling in that category. I also may be done tube rolling recitfiers on the TP. The EML seems to add sanity and balance to every signal tube choice. (Note: I'm still concerned that it glows too brightly, but Dan assures me we're not driving it too hard). I'm nowhere near done tube rolling the 6SN7's however....unless I spring for those round plates, that is. :drool:
Net/net, if asked which gives bigger bang for the buck I would say the octal adapter jump.. It's quite a revelation, and brings many new tubes into the roll mix. But.....the EML move is completely additive, and the combo is killer Sorry. :D
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Guess you like it then Ted?
Ken (Bigfish) pointed me to this link:
http://thetubestore.com/6sn7types.html
Interesting to hear what the current production varieties sound like.
Even without the 6SN7, just the EML, the TP to me doesn't sound analog or digital anymore - it just sounds like music.
Before the EML I listened to the live CD that comes with Adele 19 and it sounded a little bright, now it sounds like your at the venue. Can't wait to get my 6SN7's :duh:
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Guess you like it then Ted?
Ken (Bigfish) pointed me to this link:
http://thetubestore.com/6sn7types.html
Interesting to hear what the current production varieties sound like.
Even without the 6SN7, just the EML, the TP to me doesn't sound analog or digital anymore - it just sounds like music.
Before the EML I listened to the live CD that comes with Adele 19 and it sounded a little bright, now it sounds like your at the venue. Can't wait to get my 6SN7's :duh:
Phil,
I have tried the EH, Sovtek, and Tung-Sol in different amps and while the EH were the best of that group, they most certainly were not in the same class as the NOS tubes.
George
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Guess you like it then Ted?
Ken (Bigfish) pointed me to this link:
http://thetubestore.com/6sn7types.html
Interesting to hear what the current production varieties sound like.
Even without the 6SN7, just the EML, the TP to me doesn't sound analog or digital anymore - it just sounds like music.
Before the EML I listened to the live CD that comes with Adele 19 and it sounded a little bright, now it sounds like your at the venue. Can't wait to get my 6SN7's :duh:
Phil,
I have tried the EH, Sovtek, and Tung-Sol in different amps and while the EH were the best of that group, they most certainly were not in the same class as the NOS tubes.
George
Found this link for the 6SN7 virgins (myself included):
http://www.tubeseller.com/ratings.html
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Found this link for the 6SN7 virgins (myself included):
http://www.tubeseller.com/ratings.html
Yep, that's the one we have all been using for years. Pretty much spot on from my standpoint.
If you want to better understand the 6SN7/VT-231 tube and get some really good info, here is a good link as well:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/6sn7-identification-guide-209782/
George
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Yes, the Chimera Labs write-up seems to be the 6SN7 gospel. The no. 1 ranked tube, the Tung Sol round plate, is the tube George loaned to David and I, and is the real deal. It's expensive ($450/pair). No 2 on the list is the VT-231 RCA (aka JAN CRC) and I recently bought a pair of those from an Ebay seller for $70/pair shipped. They are warming up in my TP currently. I saw a pair of No.3 (VT-231 Sylvanias, aka JAN-CHS) for about $160/pair. So, the esoteric tubes in this family aren't all ridiculous money, and some other nice ones down the list are $40-50/pair.
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As Ted and George know as well the octal plate tubes are truly the way to go. I know there has been a little bit of concern over the price of some of the 6SN7's but I am telling you guys it is worth it. People have spent just as much on rectifiers, and IMO, there is a more significant change going to the round plates then between the rectifiers. Also, there are some excellent 6SN7's for not very much. The ones Ted bought for $70 are supposed to be very good and I am sure he will comment on them once they are broken in.
I have yet to hear the EML yet as all you guys bought them up to fast for me to get one :wink: but I have one on order and hope will will ship no later than next week.
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The combination of EML mesh plate 5U4G and octal adapter 6SN7's ...is magical. It has pushed my MW Transporter into a new musical realm that I am very excited about. The piece de resistance is the combination of EML and Tung Sol round plates (thanks George/Zybar for the loan, via David).
I, for one, am not going back to nine pins on the TP. I'm done tube rolling in that category. I also may be done tube rolling rectifiers on the TP. The EML seems to add sanity and balance to every signal tube choice. (Note: I'm still concerned that it glows too brightly, but Dan assures me we're not driving it too hard). I'm nowhere near done tube rolling the 6SN7's however....unless I spring for those round plates, that is. :drool:
Net/net, if asked which gives bigger bang for the buck I would say the octal adapter jump.. It's quite a revelation, and brings many new tubes into the roll mix. But.....the EML move is completely additive, and the combo is killer Sorry. :D
Wow, I buy some sweet RCA Cleartop 6GC7s in January, get buried in work for a few weeks and you guys have moved on to octal adapters with 6SN7 signal tubes. :o
I'm all for it, in the holy grail quest of audiophile neurosis, just surprised at such a departure.
I have to wonder if there might be some sonic degradation by utilizing the adaptor route, as might be experienced with other signal adaptors (xlr-to-rca, bnc-to-rca, etc.). Has anyone already explored getting MWI to retrofit a nice octal base to the circuit board?
Regarding the new EML 5U4G rectifier king, I about choked on the $235 price tag. I currently have a nice black base MB GZ34 that I paid $75 for. Is the EML really worth the upgrade $$$? From what I've read so far, it sounds like my money would be better spent going the octal route? {I have the bybee/power mod}
Thx,
Kenreau
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As the one who started this octal silliness (and now am loving the sound) and as unofficial el presidente of this tube rolling club :) I have an official email into Dan asking about the costs and possibilities of an octal socket replacement. However, two things:
1) the adapters sound great to my ears..Wayne is the man! They also allow effortless re-engineering back to the standard MW TP.
2) Dan and company are up to the ears with their current projects, and so I doubt a quick turnaround.
But I did ask. I'll report back.
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The combination of EML mesh plate 5U4G and octal adapter 6SN7's ...is magical. It has pushed my MW Transporter into a new musical realm that I am very excited about. The piece de resistance is the combination of EML and Tung Sol round plates (thanks George/Zybar for the loan, via David).
I, for one, am not going back to nine pins on the TP. I'm done tube rolling in that category. I also may be done tube rolling rectifiers on the TP. The EML seems to add sanity and balance to every signal tube choice. (Note: I'm still concerned that it glows too brightly, but Dan assures me we're not driving it too hard). I'm nowhere near done tube rolling the 6SN7's however....unless I spring for those round plates, that is. :drool:
Net/net, if asked which gives bigger bang for the buck I would say the octal adapter jump.. It's quite a revelation, and brings many new tubes into the roll mix. But.....the EML move is completely additive, and the combo is killer Sorry. :D
Wow, I buy some sweet RCA Cleartop 6GC7s in January, get buried in work for a few weeks and you guys have moved on to octal adapters with 6SN7 signal tubes. :o
I'm all for it, in the holy grail quest of audiophile neurosis, just surprised at such a departure.
I have to wonder if there might be some sonic degradation by utilizing the adaptor route, as might be experienced with other signal adaptors (xlr-to-rca, bnc-to-rca, etc.). Has anyone already explored getting MWI to retrofit a nice octal base to the circuit board?
Regarding the new EML 5U4G rectifier king, I about choked on the $235 price tag. I currently have a nice black base MB GZ34 that I paid $75 for. Is the EML really worth the upgrade $$$? From what I've read so far, it sounds like my money would be better spent going the octal route? {I have the bybee/power mod}
Thx,
Kenreau
Ken:
I cannot speak for the upgrade to the 6SN7's as I will be experimenting with the holy grail of signal tubes after I obtain adapters. However, I made the change to the EML -5U4G Mesh Rectifier in early December from a Metal Base GZ-34. I have gone back twice and ran comparisons of the MB to the EML and the EML is the clear winner. I have the full monty ModWright Transporter with Bybees and Turbo Upgrade. If you are going to embark on evaluating the 6SN7 signal tubes I cannot imagine you will not eventually want to try the EML-5U4G as it is such a step up from the previous best rectifier, the MB-GZ-34.
Good Luck,
Ken
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Ken:
I cannot speak for the upgrade to the 6SN7's as I will be experimenting with the holy grail of signal tubes after I obtain adapters. However, I made the change to the EML -5U4G Mesh Rectifier in early December from a Metal Base GZ-34. I have gone back twice and ran comparisons of the MB to the EML and the EML is the clear winner. I have the full monty ModWright Transporter with Bybees and Turbo Upgrade. If you are going to embark on evaluating the 6SN7 signal tubes I cannot imagine you will not eventually want to try the EML-5U4G as it is such a step up from the previous best rectifier, the MB-GZ-34.
Good Luck,
Ken
Ken,
I don't know what it is, but I really like the sound of your name... :wink:
Thanks for the recommendations. Aaagggghhhh...that's the sound of my wallet wailing. I guess I will need to add these both to my wish list. Now I just need to wait to see how Fedzilla and the tax man is going to treat me this next month and get my priorities in order.
And, Ted, aka u.e.p., thanks for running the octal socket replacement up the MWI flag pole. Anxious to hear the feedback.
Thanks folks,
Ken
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i should stick to collecting stamps ,Is alot cheaper then Tubes rolling :duh:,i love the EML btw.
lapsan
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Came across a fellow in Taiwan who makes a variety of tube adapters including this octal to noval:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18172)
It is called a "6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter" and measures 29mm wide and 25mm high.
What do you guys think of this?
aa
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It looks like it would work. 1.14 inches wide, an inch tall. It would remain under the lid opening slightly. Phil and I would still need to have our TP lid holes enlarged (and you know how painful that can be..... :drums:. rim shot ). I'm digging the sound of Wayne's V1, albeit slightly unsturdy prototype. Nick, can you tell how much$$. Shipping?
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Ted,
These adapters are very reasonably priced (low twenties, each) and shipping is fixed at $13. I am reluctant to put anyone's email on a public page but feel free to PM me for contact information for the fellow who makes these. I have ordered, but not yet received a pair.
While they don't have Bybees, rare earth element wire, strontium solder and haven't been cryo'd in liquid nitrogen for 300 years, the business ends of the adapter appear to made of common pins and sockets and the casing looks to be solid. And they are available now.
Best,
Nick
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Nick, my concern is that they are a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter anf what you want is the opposite of that, 6CG7 to 6SN7. I just want to make sure that you get the correct pin layout. you want 9 to 8, not 8 to 9
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Nick, my concern is that they are a 6SN7 to 6CG7 adapter anf what you want is the opposite of that, 6CG7 to 6SN7. I just want to make sure that you get the correct pin layout.
The picture is what we want, David, nine male pins, eight female socket. The way it is called "6sn7 to 6cg7" may mean "put a 6sn7 tube into a 6CG7 socket"...dunno. But with the language issue you are right to ask again, cuz it's a bit confusing.
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Cool, just wanted to make sure Nick was getting the right thing, thanks.
the size of them is nice aa but they will make your EML look even bigger :wink:
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It looks like it would work. 1.14 inches wide, an inch tall. It would remain under the lid opening slightly. Phil and I would still need to have our TP lid holes enlarged (and you know how painful that can be..... :drums:. rim shot ). I'm digging the sound of Wayne's V1, albeit slightly unsturdy prototype. Nick, can you tell how much$$. Shipping?
Ted,
Not sure about the v1 adapters from Wayne, but v2 (David's) and v3 (mine) are rock solid and I would have no issues using them indefinitely. Wayne definitely did a good job with them. :thumb:
Later this week Wayne should have an even better version available to us to test out and evaluate.
George
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I agree about Wayne's work (Wayne's world?). He is getting my money, regardless. He put it out there.
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I spoke with Dan regarding the 9 pin to octal adapters. Wayne's early versions appear to place the tube sufficiently above the unit to allow heat to escape from the chassis with some clearance around the base for ventilation.
The adapter Nick found looks like it may work and perhaps be a good fit but would likely close off the 2 output tube holes and not allow sufficient convective ventilation. You may want to increase the diameter to the size of the rectifier hole ( about 1 5/8”) to allow adequate ventilation. Failure to do so could increase heat inside the unit and thus void our warranty.
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John, thanks for the note as that makes good snese.
Like George and Ted, I am with Wayne all the way :thumb: His adapters are very well constructed and he is putting considerable time into making them perfect.
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Thanks for the confidence, guys.
v2.3 adaptors should ship to ted_b, rydenfan and zybar today or tomorrow.
If the three of them concur with quality of workmanship, I will start making them available for orders.
I would be looking at roughly $125.00 for the pair plus shipping.
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Thanks for the confidence, guys.
v2.3 adaptors should ship to ted_b, rydenfan and zybar today or tomorrow.
If the three of them concur with quality of workmanship, I will start making them available for orders.
I would be looking at roughly $125.00 for the pair plus shipping.
Wayne,
If they are equal to or better than the pairs I have seen, get ready to sell a lot of them!
Absolutely worth every penny and highly recommended if you want to unlock the full potential of your Modwright TP.
George
George
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Thanks for the confidence, guys.
v2.3 adaptors should ship to ted_b, rydenfan and zybar today or tomorrow.
If the three of them concur with quality of workmanship, I will start making them available for orders.
I would be looking at roughly $125.00 for the pair plus shipping.
Cant wait to try them out! :thumb: got some NOS Tung Sol Black Glass round pplate 6SN7's ready to go into them :drool:
Once the EML's get back into stock within the next few days I should be all set for awhile :wink:
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Hey guys been a HUGE fan of this thread, ever since I got a transporter 2months ago, and now come thurs nite, my second transporter, the full-monty modwright. Gonna sell stock unit after I A B it for shits and giggles
Want to thank rydenfan for turning me onto Ipeng, since I happened to have a itouch, that App is just amazing. Hooked already
Got AA capitole amp and it was like a new amp after installing Sylvania 6sn7 badboys, so will try to scoop up another pair to try with the octal adaptors when ready. And the EML seems like the conclusive choice for a rectifier so hopefully by 400 hours I will have what seems to be from this thread "the ideal setup"
Keep up the good work guys and hopefully I will be able to add some good info to this site after my break-in period. Damn gotta wait another 24hrs for this thing..lol
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Berto, welcome and congrats :thumb: I am sure you will be very pleased aa
And yes, the ipeng native app is absolutely amazing. My hunch is that Ted will have something to say about ipeng soon as well :wink:
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Hey guys been a HUGE fan of this thread, ever since I got a transporter 2months ago, and now come thurs nite, my second transporter, the full-monty modwright. Gonna sell stock unit after I A B it for shits and giggles
Want to thank rydenfan for turning me onto Ipeng, since I happened to have a itouch, that App is just amazing. Hooked already
Got AA capitole amp and it was like a new amp after installing Sylvania 6sn7 badboys, so will try to scoop up another pair to try with the octal adaptors when ready. And the EML seems like the conclusive choice for a rectifier so hopefully by 400 hours I will have what seems to be from this thread "the ideal setup"
Keep up the good work guys and hopefully I will be able to add some good info to this site after my break-in period. Damn gotta wait another 24hrs for this thing..lol
Hi Berto, glad you find the thread fun - I've found it expensive :bawl:, I've got more money tied up in tubes than I've got tied up in Wall St :( Maybe they've got more value though today :thumb:
Anyway, not many have AB'd the stock and Modwright TP, it'll be interesting to get your feedback.
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Berto, welcome and congrats :thumb: I am sure you will be very pleased aa
And yes, the ipeng native app is absolutely amazing. My hunch is that Ted will have something to say about ipeng soon as well :wink:
David, I bought a Nokia 800 for a remote - love it so much that it's replaced my laptop when I travel (you can't imagine how satisfying it is to disappoint the TSA guys when you tell they find out you don't have a laptop). Then bought a Controller but this has now become a bedroom player as the built in DAC allows you to output via headphones etc. Bottom line - I need a new remote so I'm interested in the ipeng application also. It's not tube rolling, should we continue here, start a new thread or join an existing one?
Phil
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There's an existing "what's your favorite iPhone App" thread. But let me just say, although I've used the Nokia skin on my Nokia 710, and used the Slimpronto apo for my Pronto 9400 (my go-to remtoe for my music room/HT), the ipeng app on my newly acquired (thanks David) iTouch is very very slick, and it finds the server immediately. Very nice.
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My MW Transporter burn in is continuing--has about 60 hours or so on it now (had to be out of town the 1st part of the week, so had to shut the system down a few days). The sound has become much nicer; the detail and music/information cue aspect is outstanding. The mids/lower mids & bass are beginning to fill out a bit more; I'm certainly hoping the sound continues to get more rich/fuller (for want of better terms) as burn in continues. Soundstage is good, already comparable to what I was experiencing with my CD player.
I'm looking forward to more improvement as burn in continues, and eagerly anticipating getting the chance to buy a pair of Wayne's adaptors and roll some 6SN7's in. I like a really rich, organic sound, with a touch of warmth, so the descriptions a number of you have provided regarding your experience with the 6SN7's have me very hopeful :D.
Randy
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Yes, the Chimera Labs write-up seems to be the 6SN7 gospel. The no. 1 ranked tube, the Tung Sol round plate, is the tube George loaned to David and I, and is the real deal. It's expensive ($450/pair). No 2 on the list is the VT-231 RCA (aka JAN CRC) and I recently bought a pair of those from an Ebay seller for $70/pair shipped. They are warming up in my TP currently. I saw a pair of No.3 (VT-231 Sylvanias, aka JAN-CHS) for about $160/pair. So, the esoteric tubes in this family aren't all ridiculous money, and some other nice ones down the list are $40-50/pair.
A question for you lucky guys with the 6SN7 adaptors. :drool: :drool: In general, how does the transparency with the 6SN7s compare to the transparency using the RCA Cleartops? I am still having a major love affair with the EML/RCA Cleartop combination and am trying to decide if I want to go on another tube rolling expedition. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Mark
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Yes, the Chimera Labs write-up seems to be the 6SN7 gospel. The no. 1 ranked tube, the Tung Sol round plate, is the tube George loaned to David and I, and is the real deal. It's expensive ($450/pair). No 2 on the list is the VT-231 RCA (aka JAN CRC) and I recently bought a pair of those from an Ebay seller for $70/pair shipped. They are warming up in my TP currently. I saw a pair of No.3 (VT-231 Sylvanias, aka JAN-CHS) for about $160/pair. So, the esoteric tubes in this family aren't all ridiculous money, and some other nice ones down the list are $40-50/pair.
A question for you lucky guys with the 6SN7 adaptors. :drool: :drool: In general, how does the transparency with the 6SN7s compare to the transparency using the RCA Cleartops? I am still having a major love affair with the EML/RCA Cleartop combination and am trying to decide if I want to go on another tube rolling expedition. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Mark
Transparency? Let me see. Hmm.... :) Ok, I'll first compare transparency on the RCA clear tops vs the Tung Sol round plates 6Sn7's with black glass. The clear tops are a cleanly washed screened window, that if you sit far enough you can't see the screen effect, but it's there. Most of the outdoor details comes through just fine. The round plates are when the screens are taken down to be cleaned and you are looking out of the hole left in the window frame......no screen, no glass pane....I can hear the edges of the soundstage so much better; everything is delineated. OK, so great. Those are $400/pair. How about my recent buy, the VT-231 RCA (JAN CRC) with greyed out glass? $70/pair. Now we're talking...Well, put the glass pane back in, but the glass is Corning optical glass with zero defects. All you get is a slight reflection when the sun is at a certain angle, otherwise no difference from zero glass. The transparency adds to the richness, too. To keep with the same analog, the flowers out the window are much more full of colors and hues and textures without the screen in.
Please note that these silly analogs are courtesy of the EML as recitifer, too, so I have to restate that the combo is the king.....although I heard a few good 6Sn7's with my fat base Mullard, the real transparency, detail and wide bandwidth listening sessions of the past week have been due to the arrival and break-in of the EML and the top-of-the-class 6SN7/VT-231 family of octals.
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Ted's analogy is quite good. Also, I am eagerly awaiting the EML's to come back into stock so I am in a place to comment strictly on 6CG7's to 6SN7's. For me, it is pretty simple; the 6SN7's are easily a more detailed tube than my previous detail favorite RCA Cleartop 6CG7's. The Cleartops now sound a bit muddy and smeared in comparison so if you let more of the music flow/letting as much signal through as possible and more micro and macro details than I would consider the 6SN7's the more transparent tube.
If the EML has the same profound impact in my system that the 6SN7's have then I would be pretty excited :D
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BTW, the fact that my EML tube and the somewhat flimsy but great sounding V1 adapters/6SN7s are so tall and potentially tipsy physically led me to think about whether they would benefit from Herbie's newer ultrasonic tube dampers (size 70 for the EML, size 30 for the pair of 6Sn7's). I have only a couple of days with them but I detect a subtle tightening of the soundstage and a not so subtle top end control (less sizzle, more shine). It's not night-n-day but it is worth the investment in my system (plus Herbie has a 90 day no-risk return policy). His earlier Hal-O versions would often overdamp in some applications (disliked them on my SWL 9.0SE) but the feedback on the tungtsen-based ultrasonics are have been pretty positive....including this one. :)
I'll experiment with dampers on just the EML and vice versa, and report back, but it may be awhile. I've got to let everything settle, and listen to some music for once. :)
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BTW, the fact that my EML tube and the somewhat flimsy but great sounding V1 adapters/6SN7s are so tall and potentially tipsy physically led me to think about whether they would benefit from Herbie's newer ultrasonic tube dampers (size 70 for the EML, size 30 for the pair of 6Sn7's). I have only a couple of days with them but I detect a subtle tightening of the soundstage and a not so subtle top end control (less sizzle, more shine). It's not night-n-day but it is worth the investment in my system (plus Herbie has a 90 day no-risk return policy). His earlier Hal-O versions would often overdamp in some applications (disliked them on my SWL 9.0SE) but the feedback on the tungtsen-based ultrasonics are have been pretty positive....including this one. :)
Ted,
That is consistent with what I have found using Herbie's latest on the rectifier or 6H30DR tubes.
I have been so focused on the 6SN7 tubes, that I forgot to mention that I have been using the Herbie's Dampers for months. :duh:
George
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If anyone interested I have 6H8C - a Russian military version of 6SN7, I have some from 1952, 53 and 54.
$350 per quad, $180 per a pair, or $95 per single tube.
I have compared them to my Sylvania 6SN7 GTB with chrome tops from 1940's and I preferred 6H8C, much more refined and balanced sound across frequency spectrum.
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If anyone interested I have 6H8C - a Russian military version of 6SN7, I have some from 1952, 53 and 54.
$350 per quad, $180 per a pair, or $95 per single tube.
I have compared them to my Sylvania 6SN7 GTB with chrome tops from 1940's and I preferred 6H8C, much more refined and balanced sound across frequency spectrum.
Tyrro,
The Sylvania 6SN7 GTB tubes will run $50-100 a pair for NOS from the 50's or 60's from very reputable dealers (potentially a little less if you go ebay or other sources).
At $180 a pair, your Russian tubes need to compete with the likes of the Raytheon VT-231's, Sylvania VT-231's, Ken-Rad VT-231's, Sylvania 6SN7W (short bottle), etc...
George
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Well, I wasn't imposing with what/which tube it will compete, just offering some tubes for you guys to try - you decide with what it will compete.
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Well, I wasn't imposing with what/which tube it will compete, just offering some tubes for you guys to try - you decide with what it will compete.
If you are talking about trying them out, I am sure Ted, David, or me would take a pair to try out. I can compare them to the best 6SN7's out there.
I thought you were talking about selling them, so that is why I made my previous post.
George
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Ted, are those Russian military tubes comparable to the Tung Sol round plates you love (and as you said, you should for the $$)? Brent Jesse said they were comparable in build to Tung Sol oval plates and sounded like what Telefunken would sound like if they made 6SN7.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm (http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm) see "6H8C" on the page
Being a tube noob, I have no clue if Mr. Jesse's opinion is valued or if there is a big diff between round and oval plated Tung Sols.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
David
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Ted, are those Russian military tubes comparable to the Tung Sol round plates you love (and as you said, you should for the $$)? Brent Jesse said they were comparable in build to Tung Sol oval plates and sounded like what Telefunken would sound like if they made 6SN7.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm (http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm) see "6H8C" on the page
Being a tube noob, I have no clue if Mr. Jesse's opinion is valued or if there is a big diff between round and oval plated Tung Sols.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
David
Brent has an excellent reputation.
FWIW, I haven't heard another 6SN7 that is as good all around as the Tung Sol black glass round plates. I think Ted and David hold the same opinion after trying out a few different ones these last few weeks.
George
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You're right, I do offer to try them but you have to buy them :) Sorry, can't do a free trial.
Well, I wasn't imposing with what/which tube it will compete, just offering some tubes for you guys to try - you decide with what it will compete.
If you are talking about trying them out, I am sure Ted, David, or me would take a pair to try out. I can compare them to the best 6SN7's out there.
I thought you were talking about selling them, so that is why I made my previous post.
George
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Thanks for the info, George. Good to know about Brent's reputation. This is all good stuff for me to refer to when I get my Transporter modified.
David
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Yes, Brent is a good guy with a good rep, and a good ear. I'm gonna be a guinea pig on these Russian boys from Tyrro (he and I PM'd). I'll report back. My VT-231 RCA's are 90-95% of the round plates (but that next 5-10% is pretty damn good!!). I won't have the round plates to a/b but I remember well enough......who couldn't. :D
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well I can't wait for the 6sn7 adapters to become available. I did install the mesh plate, and even my wife dug it...she commented that this was one mighty good tube...she never did that before.
I have lots of 6sn7s that I have been collecting for my bat vk75se. raytheons, sylvania 6sn7w variants, tung-sol mouse ears, tung sol 6sn7w, ken rad vt231--I'm not sure how I will listen to them all. nor tung sol round plates (yet)
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Just waiting on the info for payment from George (TubesUSA) and then I will be joining the EML crew :thumb: I hope to have it by midweek.
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Just waiting on the info for payment from George (TubesUSA) and then I will be joining the EML crew :thumb: I hope to have it by midweek.
Great news David - knew we'd get you in the end :icon_twisted:
Have your TS 6SN7's arrived yet?
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Just waiting on the info for payment from George (TubesUSA) and then I will be joining the EML crew :thumb: I hope to have it by midweek.
Sorry David! I guess we hooked you on the EML Mesh 5U4G just as you, Ted and George have us all hooked on the 6SN7's. :lol:
Ken
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Payback's a bitch! :D
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Just waiting on the info for payment from George (TubesUSA) and then I will be joining the EML crew :thumb: I hope to have it by midweek.
Great news David - knew we'd get you in the end :icon_twisted:
Have your TS 6SN7's arrived yet?
Yes, my 6SN7's are here and I am just waiting on some adapters to put them to good use :D
My EML is now ordered so I look forward to hearing it and comparing it against my HW GZ37 :thumb:
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David,
Your adapters were shipped out yesterday. You get the first of the new design.
George and Ted's will be shipped on Monday.
I will tentatively say that adapters should be available for purchase by the end of the month.
Now which one of you want to try out a pair of Octal adapters with Bybees inside?
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David,
Your adapters were shipped out yesterday. You get the first of the new design.
George and Ted's will be shipped on Monday.
I will tentatively say that adapters should be available for purchase by the end of the month.
Now which one of you want to try out a pair of Octal adapters with Bybees inside?
Wayne,
How the heck do you fit Bybees inside?
Which Bybees are you thinking of using?
George
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Luv the Icon Zybar, are you getting ready for #27 World Championship and my buddy has season tix to new stadium, should be fun year. Now we just need a steroid that prevents A-rod from chokin in the playoffs..lol (d.letterman top ten)
Jammin to my new MWTP and yes was thin out of the box but 48hrs later of non-stop playing it is sounding more and more musical. Besides at the audio shows Ive never heard a audio source with such clarity/detail. Gonna give it a solid 200hrs or so before I do a serious comparison against stock unit. Been listening to the stock unit for two months and regardless of sound differences Im just alot more drawn into and intoxicated by the music with the MWTP so far. I realized this when today listening to Roger Waters Live At Berlin Wall and I threw my hands up in the air like I was at the show. The stock unit never got me that involved.
You guys got me buying rca 6sntgt v-231's and already shot a email for that EML as well. Eventually look into the TungSols but if I can get 90 percent from RCA for 60 bux a pair NOS that is acceptable for now. By end of the month when wayne is ready I will be all broken in , have compared and sold stock unit, and then just enjoying the MWTP with fancy tubes and watching Yanks bully Red Sox like the good ole days :D
So in about 150 hrs or so I will give my two cents on the stock vs mwtp/w/stock tubes. Then im off to EML/6sn7 land.
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Folks, once again we are running down on our 5U4G mesh inventory. This will be the third shipment in the last month that we will have exhausted in very short order. If you have emailed us regarding us notifying you(we have), please contact us before it becomes first come, first serve. Our next shipment looks to be about a month away. Thanks for your support!
Best,
George
TubesUSA.com
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You guys got me hook, line and sinker :?
I just purchased a pair of the tung sol round plates on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120375629452
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George,
The Slipstream Purifiers will fit in the adapters, no problem. I can use the copper, silver or gold versions, as long as someone will pay for them :D
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George,
The Slipstream Purifiers will fit in the adapters, no problem. I can use the copper, silver or gold versions, as long as someone will pay for them :D
do you use 8 of them? one for each pin? :green:
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Ted, George and David have created a furor amongst us about the sonic superiority of the 6SN7 tubes versus the 6CG7 types. Many of us with early editions of the ModWright Transporters sent them back to Dan for the Turbo and Bybee Upgrades and realized sonic improvements from the upgrades. The EML Mesh Rectifier has been another step-up in performance and now for most of us the future experimentation with 6SN7 Tubes. When I am able to obtain a standard set of adapters to roll the 6SN7's I cannot imagine what might be next for the ModWright Transporter. For me personally, I doubt it will be Bybees inside the tube adapters. Anyway, if you go back to page 1 of the Tube Rolling Thread you realize there has been substantial sonic improvements made to a source that sounded pretty darn good from day one! Thanks to Dan Wright for his genius in modding the Transporter and many thanks to Ted and David for sharing all of your tube rolling experience!
Ken
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My pleasure Ken :D I look forward to your thoughts on the 6SN7's...
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My MW Transporter (full Plat. mods) is really rounding into shape nicely. I'm probably at around 150 hours or so now, so from what you guys have experienced I'm likely not all the way there yet. This weekend I rolled some Tung Sol blackplate 6CG7s in (I know these were too warm for some of you) and I'm really, really liking the sound.
Suffice it to say that I have no regrets and the Raysonic CD168 (which I really like as well) has been demoted and carted off to the bedroom system :D.
Now I just can't wait for some of Wayne's adaptors to give my 6SN7 inventory a whirl!!
Randy
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You guys got me hook, line and sinker :?
I just purchased a pair of the tung sol round plates on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120375629452
I just went for it and got Tung Sol round plates as well from same seller,(seems like he has some great NOS 6SN7s and good prices as well) I wonder how long it will take too ship too NY from Greece but no rush since still breaking in and waiting for adaptors. Also contacted George about the EML, (in case I had to wait on that as well) turns out he lives in next town over and is dropping one off this afternoon. I realize I'm rushing into things, partly due to my excitement of such an amazing and new source. But from reading the thread the EML seems like numero uno rectifier and although only 100hrs on MWTP , it will be a no brain-er replacing the stock one.
Still plan on doing A/B test against stock eventually, but don't see that mismatch requiring a helluva lot of time.
I do prefer the voluptuous sound/girl over less full sound/waif blond so hopefully I won't have to look back after I get the adaptors and just enjoy!
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I won a pair of RCA VT-231's from him Feb 3. They arrived in Cleveland OH on the following Monday, Feb 9!!!!
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He is single-handily supplying the whole Transporter crew :wink: He is the same seller I got my Tung Sols from back on Feb 3.
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He is single-handily supplying the whole Transporter crew :wink: He is the same seller I got my Tung Sols from back on Feb 3.
+1
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I won a pair of RCA VT-231's from him Feb 3. They arrived in Cleveland OH on the following Monday, Feb 9!!!!
Wow Ted that is quick, and It makes me even happier to know that both you and rydenfan speak highly of the tubes you have recieved from him. Esp considering I went for same rca vt-231's and tung sol round plates based on your opinions, really look fwd to them now aa
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I think the NOS 6SN7 tube dealers owe Ted, David and George commission for creating a market for these tubes in the Transporter. :lol: :thumb:
Ken
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I think the NOS 6SN7 tube dealers owe Ted, David and George commission for creating a market for these tubes in the Transporter. :lol: :thumb:
Ken
Thanks...and TubesUSA owes you, Rob, etc some finders fees for the EML's. :thumb:
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Guys I just had the pleasure of meeting w/George for the last 30 or so mins, my EXTREMELY local EML distributor. I emailed George today to order thinking it might take a month and here I am listening and loving this new tube a few hrs later.
I knew when he knocked on my door sporting a NY Yankees cap and and hand delivering a big beautiful EML box, I would like him. Very professional and knowledgable , we listened to some good tunes as he gave me some very good advice. Just a class act!
Although only 100hrs on MWTP, that GE rectifier is history except for dual with the stock transporter after 200hrs for all of an hour probably. Almost pointless since I'm enjoying my EML way too much already, but I did say I would do it.
I'm amazed , the EML (mesh version)immediately transformed my MWTP into a much better component. Although still not broken in, the thinness is GONE! The musical resolution has increased greatly and just VERY impressed how much of a change this tube has made. The mesh version I read on here is more laid back, but with my Merlins, works great.
Now the EML will break in with the MWTP and should settle in nicely by the time I get the Octals with TS round plates in there , wondering how much better this is gonna get :drool:
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Guys I just had the pleasure of meeting w/George, my EXTREMELY local EML distributor. I emailed George today to order thinking it might take a month and here I am listening and loving this new tube a few hrs later.
I knew when he knocked on my door sporting a NY Yankees cap and and hand delivering a big beautiful EML box, I would like him.
Although only 100hrs on MWTP, that GE rectifier is history except for dual with the stock transporter after 200hrs for all of an hour probably. Almost pointless since I'm enjoying my EML way too much already, but I did say I would do it.
The EML (mesh version)immediately transformed my MWTP into a much better component. Although still not broken in, the thinness is GONE! The musical resolution has increased greatly and just very impressed how much of a change this tube has made. The mesh version I read on here is more laid back, but with my Merlins, works great.
Now the EML will break in with the MWTP and should settle in nicely by the time I get the Octals with TS round plates in there , wondering how much better this is gonna get :drool:
I've spoken to George a number of times over the phone, he's a pleasure to do business with and very professional.
All of us that have the EML have never taken it out since we got it - it does everything so well and makes the TP sound even more musical, I too can't believe it can get any better.
Ted tells us that the EML coupled with the 6SN7's are the killer well, by the end of the month, a few more of us will be enjoying this combo :drool:.
What comes next?
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Ted tells us that the EML coupled with the 6SN7's are the killer well, by the end of the month, a few more of us will be enjoying this combo :drool:.
What comes next?
Guess we'll lock the thread! :lol:
Power cords!!!
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Guess we'll lock the thread! :lol:
Power cords!!!
The Kaplan Cable 3amp conditioner cord is excellent on the Modwright TP. aa
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As is the Lessloss. I've found a new fave, thanks to David, the non-ferrite version of the Cardas Golden Ref pc. Wow, great wide bandwidth yet smooth and lush. No sense of rolloff or accentuated bumps anywhwere. Two on my Spectrons, one on my 36.5 (oops, i keep forgetting, that one's David's. 8) ). I have a couple SR Tesla cords in for demo now, the active T2 and T3. I will see if either knocks off the Cardas, then try the Cardas on the TP.
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Moving away from power cords :nono:
One thing I do notice about the TP with the EML tube is that I'm starting to enjoy live concerts more than studio recordings. For example the live bonus disc with Adele's CD, 19, I found was on the coarse/shrill sound, now it sounds like you're on the front row at the club in which the recording was made. Anyone else have the same experience? Or any other topic to move away from pc's that we can share?
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Moving away from power cords :nono:
One thing I do notice about the TP with the EML tube is that I'm starting to enjoy live concerts more than studio recordings. For example the live bonus disc with Adele's CD, 19, I found was on the coarse/shrill sound, now it sounds like you're on the front row at the club in which the recording was made. Anyone else have the same experience? Or any other topic to move away from pc's that we can share?
A couple of my favorites with the EML Mesh tube are live recordings: Grateful Dead - "The Closing of Winterland" and The Dave Matthews Band - "Weekend on The Rocks." I was thinking when I listened to these recordings today that they sounded really special, just as if I were attending the concerts.
Ken
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Moving away from power cords :nono:
One thing I do notice about the TP with the EML tube is that I'm starting to enjoy live concerts more than studio recordings. For example the live bonus disc with Adele's CD, 19, I found was on the coarse/shrill sound, now it sounds like you're on the front row at the club in which the recording was made. Anyone else have the same experience? Or any other topic to move away from pc's that we can share?
A couple of my favorites with the EML Mesh tube are live recordings: Grateful Dead - "The Closing of Winterland" and The Dave Matthews Band - "Weekend on The Rocks." I was thinking when I listened to these recordings today that they sounded really special, just as if I were attending the concerts.
Ken
Since Jerry Garcia stopped performing at least on earth, I do look forward to his re-incarnation in my room, really enjoyed a live Traffic at the fillmore show today like never before. With the EML The presentation of a live event def takes on the most "you are there" feeling Ive had , short of being at the show. I'm BIG into live music find alot of good quality stuff on etree if you sift through it, you can attend a show and then DL it next morn in great quality. Just saw Phil Lesh for several nites in nov.at the nokia theater times sq nyc, warren haynes showed up one nite, Joan Baez another , look forward to re-living those shows as well. :D
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Wow, that is wild! Wild, that you guys are talking about live recordings and the EML (and octals :drool:). I noticed this tonight and realized I was really enjoying ambiance a whole lot more...live recordings from the Village Vanguard (Bill Evans, etc.), Patricia Barber stuff (Live Fortnight in Paris, Companion), a couple of Mapleshade live jazz recordings, etc. :thumb:
Phil, as el presidente I will officially say that this tube rolling thread cannot get hijacked by power cord discussions, ok? :lol: Hell, you were the one who asked the musical question "what comes next".
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The Kaplan Cable 3amp conditioner cord is excellent on the Modwright TP. aa
Paul's cables are excellent indeed :thumb: I use the TelWire on my TP and like it very much.
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I look forward to my EML shipping out tomorrow. I certainly have plenty of live music for it. Even more if I run the digital out of my Otari pro DAT deck and into the TP as a DAC :thumb:
I really need to start converting the 2000+ DATs I have :duh:
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As is the Lessloss. I've found a new fave, thanks to David, the non-ferrite version of the Cardas Golden Ref pc. Wow, great wide bandwidth yet smooth and lush. No sense of rolloff or accentuated bumps anywhwere. Two on my Spectrons, one on my 36.5 (oops, i keep forgetting, that one's David's. 8) ). I have a couple SR Tesla cords in for demo now, the active T2 and T3. I will see if either knocks off the Cardas, then try the Cardas on the TP.
Glad to see my cord is feeling right at home :wink: the Cardas Golden Reference (non-ferrite version) is certainly a killer cord. Like ted says, I find it extremely dynamic with huge bandwidth and soundstage while having a very natural warmth. I am using on one my amp and one on my pre.
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Wow, that is wild! Wild, that you guys are talking about live recordings and the EML (and octals :drool:). I noticed this tonight and realized I was really enjoying ambiance a whole lot more...live recordings from the Village Vanguard (Bill Evans, etc.), Patricia Barber stuff (Live Fortnight in Paris, Companion), a couple of Mapleshade live jazz recordings, etc. :thumb:
Phil, as el presidente I will officially say that this tube rolling thread cannot get hijacked by power cord discussions, ok? :lol: Hell, you were the one who asked the musical question "what comes next".
"what comes next' = what tubes come next 8) Didn't give you guys the license to blow tube smoke :bounce:
We'll have to get you and David one of those amps with the non-detachable power cords, just think of how much extra tube rolling cash you're going to have after selling all those power cords :thumb:
Joking apart, I was serious about the live music - the TP is scary good now.
I had a session with the 6N6P's tonight, I believe Thalvor introduced these, they match very well with the EML. They have the detail of the 6N1P's and the EML seems to take out the harshness, not sure what prolonged listening will reveal but a few hours this evening and they sound wonderful.
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I just received some 1960's Svetlana 5U4G/5C3S Black Plate rectifier tubes that I purchased from Nikolay off ebay (his username is "xryn" on ebay). These came highly recommended to me for my amp by one of the well-respected tube gurus over on Audio Asylum. I just popped one into my MW Transporter, and a pair into my Cary integrated amp--after 10 minutes I'm pretty darn impressed, especially considering the price (around $14/tube shipped from Russia). I'm been running a Tung Sol 5U4GB and a Mullard gz 32 in my Transporter--I'm hearing a more solid bass line, with great detail and smoothness with these Russian tubes, and they aren't even warmed up yet! Maybe not quite as smooth as the Mullard, but the notes have more attack and snap.
I'm not saying they are on the level of the EML mesh (I have one on its way :icon_lol:) as I haven't heard it yet, but for anyone looking for a really cheap alternative, you might consider giving these Svetlana's a try!
No affiliation with the seller, no accomodations for positive review--just wanted to share a potential bargain.
Randy
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I just received some 1960's Svetlana 5U4G/5C3S Black Plate rectifier tubes that I purchased from Nikolay off ebay (his username is "xryn" on ebay). These came highly recommended to me for my amp by one of the well-respected tube gurus over on Audio Asylum. I just popped one into my MW Transporter, and a pair into my Cary integrated amp--after 10 minutes I'm pretty darn impressed, especially considering the price (around $14/tube shipped from Russia). I'm been running a Tung Sol 5U4GB and a Mullard gz 32 in my Transporter--I'm hearing a more solid bass line, with great detail and smoothness with these Russian tubes, and they aren't even warmed up yet! Maybe not quite as smooth as the Mullard, but the notes have more attack and snap.
I'm not saying they are on the level of the EML mesh (I have one on its way :icon_lol:) as I haven't heard it yet, but for anyone looking for a really cheap alternative, you might consider giving these Svetlana's a try!
No affiliation with the seller, no accomodations for positive review--just wanted to share a potential bargain.
Randy
I'm curious to hear how you will compare it to the EML sound.
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I'll try and post a comparison after I get the EML--I'm guessing that the EML will be much better given the cost difference, but the inexpensive Russian blackplate is not bad at all.
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My EML arrived today and all I can say is... WOW! That is one big tube :o
Where is Michael Scott when I need him??
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My EML arrived today and all I can say is... WOW! That is one big tube :o
Where is Michael Scott when I need him??
Congratulations David - It's a huge tube, but it's also a work of art. I think it looks better than the 5U4's, just takes some getting used to.
Phil
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The whole thing is beautiful: the tube, the packaging, etc. but it will take a bit of getting used to.
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The whole thing is beautiful: the tube, the packaging, etc. but it will take a bit of getting used to.
David:
Please tell us your thoughts of the sound of the EML with the 6SN7s.
My 6SN7s on on the way! :thumb:
Ken
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The whole thing is beautiful: the tube, the packaging, etc. but it will take a bit of getting used to.
David:
Please tell us your thoughts of the sound of the EML with the 6SN7s.
My 6SN7s on on the way! :thumb:
Ken
You know I will :wink: I am going to put at least 75 hours on it before I really listen to it though (at least that is what I am telling myself).
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You know I will :wink: I am going to put at least 75 hours on it before I really listen to it though (at least that is what I am telling myself).
I give him 10 more min. :D
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Ted, George and David should have received the latest version of the Octal adapters today.
Hopefully none of them has caused their Transporter to explode :o
If the guys like them, I should be able to have a small amount ready to ship in around a week.
If they hate them... back to the drawing board :oops:
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Wayne, if you're taking names/making a list for the new adaptors as they become available, I'd like to be on it.
Thanks!
Randy
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Ted, George and David should have received the latest version of the Octal adapters today.
Hopefully none of them has caused their Transporter to explode :o
If the guys like them, I should be able to have a small amount ready to ship in around a week.
If they hate them... back to the drawing board :oops:
Mine arrived yesterday and I will try them tonight.
Thanks Wayne.
George
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Ted, George and David should have received the latest version of the Octal adapters today.
Hopefully none of them has caused their Transporter to explode :o
If the guys like them, I should be able to have a small amount ready to ship in around a week.
If they hate them... back to the drawing board :oops:
Mine have been running straight since Tuesday and all is well :D I look forward to actually listening to them over the weekend.
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Wayne,
I'm looking forward to trying these as well - please let us know when you have a design for which you want to make a few. The 6SN7 world is huge! Actually a bit scary for me - it looks sometimes like there are a ton to be had, but also seems the good ones are tough to find and expensive. I guess that's what you call a market :wink:
Jim
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Mine arrived yesterday, and I'll be testing it against the V1. However, my TP is an early one with 1" holes so I need to do some manipulating and remove the cover (short term issue) before I give feedback....BTW, V1's are great!!
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You know I will :wink: I am going to put at least 75 hours on it before I really listen to it though (at least that is what I am telling myself).
I give him 10 more min. :D
This reminds me of one of my favorite Seinfeld episodes....can David remain "master of his domain" and hold out 75 hours? I bet he does a Cramer... :P
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:lol: Hilarious. Kramer went out the first day!
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My EML mesh rectifier arrived today, so it gets a workout this weekend!
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Wayne, if you're taking names/making a list for the new adaptors as they become available, I'd like to be on it.
Thanks!
Randy
ditto here...I think we've already communicated about this via email or PM
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Dan,
If you are reading and still following this thread, can you make any comment on the virtues of 6sn7 vs 6cg7 and why you might have made the design consideration you did when you chose the 6cg7 as the standard.
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Well did a test with the MWTP vs stock, did a nice write-up last nite and guess I took too long cause the session times out and it all got erased :oops: So if this sounds a lil short , you know why.
First off I just shipped my stock TP off to its new owner and although the MWTP blows it away, the stock unit still sounded pretty good and def got me hooked enough to go the Modified rout.
I liked being able to hook up both TP's to same network and same Joule preamp as well as cue up same music for each one. If only my Joule has remote source switching I would never of had to get up. MWTP had all stock tubes and 160hrs at the time.
I cued up Nora Jones "Don't know why" and her voice on MWTP had alot more depth and separation from the music, I could hear the pluck of the guitar as well. There was more air in her voice and it took on a more lifelike feel. The stock unit , i could hear the guitar but the no sense of actually fingers touching it, less separation as her voice did not jump out as much.
I did say this would be short right , what the MWTP does for voices , air, separation (reduntant I know) , and top too bottom resolution just adds alot more depth and "real-ness" (made up word) to the music.
Listening to the stock unit is in no way bad and it will compete with alot of CD players I'm sure, but listening to how the music make me feel is more important then anything else. With the stock unit I'm listening and enjoying, with the MWTP I'm simply INTOXICATED! Good Job Dan!
PS..With the EML , I'm at the show :thumb:
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I've been playing the EML mesh for the past 3-4 hours; no question its better in just about every way than my other rectifiers, including the inexpensive Russian blackplates I posted about above. Is it worth the cost difference (which is a lot, roughly $180 difference)---to me it is without question. I can't describe the virtues of what this tube does better (or as good) as the previous posters, but to me it just make all the music seem more 'real'--more like live music for want of a better description. Everything is more coherent, the detail is there, but its so smooth that there seems to be no 'electronic' nature to the sound. I'll be content with the Svet blackplate rectifiers in my amp, but the EML mesh is definitely staying in the MW Transporter!!
Randy
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I've been playing the EML mesh for the past 3-4 hours; no question its better in just about every way than my other rectifiers, including the inexpensive Russian blackplates I posted about above. Is it worth the cost difference (which is a lot, roughly $180 difference)---to me it is without question. I can't describe the virtues of what this tube does better (or as good) as the previous posters, but to me it just make all the music seem more 'real'--more like live music for want of a better description. Everything is more coherent, the detail is there, but its so smooth that there seems to be no 'electronic' nature to the sound. I'll be content with the Svet blackplate rectifiers in my amp, but the EML mesh is definitely staying in the MW Transporter!!
Randy
Nice to hear your enjoying the EML as much as the rest of us. Once I read this forum I knew it must be something special to best all of previous faves. Plus us newbies are lucky to have the benefit of this wealth of experience, as this will be my one and only rectifier upgrade until the EML get de-throned.
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Yes, that "newbie" advantage is quite nice sometimes. :cry: :D Some of us bought a boatload of recitfiers only to finally settle on the EML. Although some (my pair of metal bases) can be used on other equipment we own (my dual box 36.5) it was still quite an expensive treasure hunt. :)
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No question we've all benefited from the extensive experience and info shared in this thread, and a big "thanks" to all the gang.
I've got a whole box of various 5U4 family rectifiers; my amp uses a pair, so most of my purchases were in tuberolling for it. The EML is the first what I would call 'high dollar' rectifier I've bought--and I'm glad I spent the bucks.
I've just rolled the 6h30 DR's into the 'pre' position and put my Tung Sol blackplate 6cg7's in the MW Transporter--seems the Tung Sols give me a bit more warmth and I'm liking this combination quite a bit. Still can't wait to get some of the octal adaptors and roll in various 6sn7's....I've got the Tung Sol round plates in my amp (it uses a pair of 6SN7's also), but I think they are destined for the MW Transporter :P. I've always been very fond of the Ken Rad VT-231's too, so those will get a try and likely end up in the amp if indeed the TS round plates find a 'permanent' home in the Transporter.
Again, thanks to all of you 'veteran' tuberollers for sharing lots of great info.
Randy
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Yes, that "newbie" advantage is quite nice sometimes. :cry: :D Some of us bought a boatload of recitfiers only to finally settle on the EML. Although some (my pair of metal bases) can be used on other equipment we own (my dual box 36.5) it was still quite an expensive treasure hunt. :)
I know the feeling :duh: :wink:
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I've been playing the EML mesh for the past 3-4 hours; no question its better in just about every way than my other rectifiers, including the inexpensive Russian blackplates I posted about above. Is it worth the cost difference (which is a lot, roughly $180 difference)---to me it is without question. I can't describe the virtues of what this tube does better (or as good) as the previous posters, but to me it just make all the music seem more 'real'--more like live music for want of a better description. Everything is more coherent, the detail is there, but its so smooth that there seems to be no 'electronic' nature to the sound. I'll be content with the Svet blackplate rectifiers in my amp, but the EML mesh is definitely staying in the MW Transporter!!
Randy
Randy, so far we've got 100% confirmation on the EML 5U4G being the optimum rectifier tube in the TP - it appears to have synergy in every system and with all signal tube variations, furthermore its available, it's new production and it has a guarantee . The only downside is the height, which will prevent some owners not being able to physically fit it into their TP, and buyers may have to wait a few weeks for George to replenish his inventory.
I've been trying to articulate what the EML brings to the TP, as it does sound completely different to vinyl and digital - the only description I can come up with is live and organic.
When I recall the 6 Moons rave review of the TP - this was based on a standard MW TP with a Tung Sol 5U4G and 6N1P's.
Now we have: Hyper-Drive, Bybees, EML 5U4G and 6SN7's - I think this combination would blow the reviewed TP out of the water.
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Randy, so far we've got 100% confirmation on the EML 5U4G being the optimum rectifier tube in the TP - it appears to have synergy in every system and with all signal tube variations, furthermore its available, it's new production and it has a guarantee . The only downside is the height, which will prevent some owners not being able to physically fit it into their TP, and buyers may have to wait a few weeks for George to replenish his inventory.
I've been trying to articulate what the EML brings to the TP, as it does sound completely different to vinyl and digital - the only description I can come up with is live and organic.
When I recall the 6 Moons rave review of the TP - this was based on a standard MW TP with a Tung Sol 5U4G and 6N1P's.
Now we have: Hyper-Drive, Bybees, EML 5U4G and 6SN7's - I think this combination would blow the reviewed TP out of the water.
Phil,
I "only" have the 6SN7's (the outstanding Tung Sol NOS Black Glass Round Plates) and I am using a BEL GZ34 5AR4 (1970s NOS) as my rectifier, but I still I totally agree with you Phil. What I am getting right now is the best digital playback I have ever had in ANY of my systems. :thumb:
I can only imagine how much better it will get as I continue to make improvements.
George
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Randy, so far we've got 100% confirmation on the EML 5U4G being the optimum rectifier tube in the TP - it appears to have synergy in every system and with all signal tube variations, furthermore its available, it's new production and it has a guarantee . The only downside is the height, which will prevent some owners not being able to physically fit it into their TP, and buyers may have to wait a few weeks for George to replenish his inventory.
I've been trying to articulate what the EML brings to the TP, as it does sound completely different to vinyl and digital - the only description I can come up with is live and organic.
When I recall the 6 Moons rave review of the TP - this was based on a standard MW TP with a Tung Sol 5U4G and 6N1P's.
Now we have: Hyper-Drive, Bybees, EML 5U4G and 6SN7's - I think this combination would blow the reviewed TP out of the water.
Phil,
I "only" have the 6SN7's (the outstanding Tung Sol NOS Black Glass Round Plates) and I am using a BEL GZ34 5AR4 (1970s NOS) as my rectifier, but I still I totally agree with you Phil. What I am getting right now is the best digital playback I have ever had in ANY of my systems. :thumb:
I can only imagine how much better it will get as I continue to make improvements.
George
Wow I'm a week or so away from TS round 6SN7s (hoping the octal adaptor god is listening) and EML, and will have a well broken in MWTP by then.
So I'm listening to a perfect GD soundbard from 2-11-69 from the Fillmore west and although sounds great I'm wondering how much more "real" can it get with that combo. :drool:
I've only left my listening room to eat and use the bathroom today, now that's a good day :D
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I've only left my listening room to eat and use the bathroom today, now that's a good day :D
Once the EML and octal combo arrives you'll be needing to brush up on The Aviator...Howard Hughes-ing it. Save up those empty bottles now while you have the time. :thumb:
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Ted, George and David should have received the latest version of the Octal adapters today.
Hopefully none of them has caused their Transporter to explode :o
If the guys like them, I should be able to have a small amount ready to ship in around a week.
If they hate them... back to the drawing board :oops:
Mine arrived yesterday and I will try them tonight.
Thanks Wayne.
George
Well the new adapters have been running since yesterday and sound spectacular (just like the previous version I was using).
I haven't had time to do an A/B with the previous version, but if there is a difference, it is pretty subtle as nothing is jumping out at me.
Build quality is excellent, with both the adapters and tubes fitting very snugly.
I think you can start making them available Wayne. :thumb:
George
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The whole thing is beautiful: the tube, the packaging, etc. but it will take a bit of getting used to.
David:
Please tell us your thoughts of the sound of the EML with the 6SN7s.
My 6SN7s on on the way! :thumb:
Ken
You know I will :wink: I am going to put at least 75 hours on it before I really listen to it though (at least that is what I am telling myself).
Hey David, any comments on the sound of the EML Mesh or are you still letting it break in?
Ken
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What does it mean when you start buying tubes (VT -231 in particular) with no audio component in your system that takes that tube?
Is it simply that you like musty 60+ year old smoked glass bottles that cost a lot of $$$ or could there be a MWTP in your future?
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Hi all,
I am new to this thread. I purchased a MW Transporter from another owner a few months ago and have been delving also into tube rolling, following many other previous posters' suggestions regarding the rectifier and signal tubes. I never had original stock MW tubes so have been using various others. But i've been making up for lost time, and read up over the past 43+ pages of tube rolling experience.
I sent my unit in about a month ago to have fully upgraded/power supply platinum mods, Bybees. Made an immediate big noticeable difference, with more solid aural images/soundstage and better bass. That was well worth it.
Tubes I've tried:
Rectifier: Raytheon 5U4G black plate - kind of nice but a bit too dark sounding, lacks dynamics
Metal base GZ34 - better in every way, but now not my preference, after awhile noticed seemed to be a bit tubby/inflated sounding, not quite so natural
Tung Sol 5U4GB - my favorite out of these three, not as dynamic as metal base but has at least as big a soundstage and mids/voice sound more natural to me. Only paid $10 shipped from Ebay seller.
EML 5U4G - just received from Tubes USA this weekend, now has about 10 hrs. on it so far. Obviously the best sounding of all, great huge soundstage, natural sounding, images great, best of everything... worth the money. Sounded better than the first three right out of the box.
Signal tubes: 6H30-DR nice sound, musical but seems to be less detailed sounding than the subsequent tubes I've used, also gain very low, at least 6-8 dB lower than 6CG7, much lower than 6N1P
6CG7, RCA clear top, RCA black plates - I liked both of these tubes, the clear tops seemed more extended in treble, black plates had nicer/more textured midrange
6N1P - I bought a couple pairs from Ebay from somewhere in Russia, they were 1980 vintage 6N1P-EV with rocket logo from Voskhod tube facility. They were cheap compared to above tubes. Turns out I like these the best of all. High gain, very detailed, accurate top to bottom. I read people complain that they are edgy/fatiguing but I don't notice anything but clear, detailed good sound that is very present. I have also purchased a set of 10 used 6N1P-V from the 1960's also from a Russian seller for about $20 shipped, hasn't arrived yet, will try these also.
Overall I could live with cheaper tubes, Tung Sol 5U4GB and 6N1P's actually seemed to be my preference, until the EML 5U4G came, now it the monster rectifier with 6N1P-EV's.
I'm also going to try to get a pair of the Octal adapters when Wayne/Bolder make them available, to try out some 6SN7s. I have some nice Sylvnia 6SN7W tubes which have been used in my BAT amp, and have a set of TS Round Plates coming from the Ebay seller in Greece.
My system is all tubes, MW Transporter, Audio Research Ref 3 preamp, BAT VK-75SE amp with Dynaudio C1 monitors and a sub. I have a pair of Merlin VSM-MXe on the way also which were going to be my last pair of speakers, although the C1's sound really great.
sorry for the long first post
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Cfchew,
Welcome to Audio Circle, and welcome to the Modwright Transporter family!!!
Great first post, and great system. I agree that if your system synergy is such that the inexpensive and high gain 6N1P's sound great then go for it!! With an all-tube signal path I can only imagine how nice the 6N1P's integrate and provide a perfect balance. They are so detailed and alive; I simply found them a bit too harsh, but that's because of the rest of my system and room. I need to constantly keep an eye on my system sounding too analytical. The warmth and organic nature of the EML and 6SN7s fit me to a tee. But I bought that set of 6N1P's too, cuz I think if other parts of my system were to change down the road then they would be a great alternative. I love their detail.
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Hi all,
I am new to this thread. I purchased a MW Transporter from another owner a few months ago and have been delving also into tube rolling, following many other previous posters' suggestions regarding the rectifier and signal tubes. I never had original stock MW tubes so have been using various others. But i've been making up for lost time, and read up over the past 43+ pages of tube rolling experience.
I sent my unit in about a month ago to have fully upgraded/power supply platinum mods, Bybees. Made an immediate big noticeable difference, with more solid aural images/soundstage and better bass. That was well worth it.
Tubes I've tried:
Rectifier: Raytheon 5U4G black plate - kind of nice but a bit too dark sounding, lacks dynamics
Metal base GZ34 - better in every way, but now not my preference, after awhile noticed seemed to be a bit tubby/inflated sounding, not quite so natural
Tung Sol 5U4GB - my favorite out of these three, not as dynamic as metal base but has at least as big a soundstage and mids/voice sound more natural to me. Only paid $10 shipped from Ebay seller.
EML 5U4G - just received from Tubes USA this weekend, now has about 10 hrs. on it so far. Obviously the best sounding of all, great huge soundstage, natural sounding, images great, best of everything... worth the money. Sounded better than the first three right out of the box.
Signal tubes: 6H30-DR nice sound, musical but seems to be less detailed sounding than the subsequent tubes I've used, also gain very low, at least 6-8 dB lower than 6CG7, much lower than 6N1P
6CG7, RCA clear top, RCA black plates - I liked both of these tubes, the clear tops seemed more extended in treble, black plates had nicer/more textured midrange
6N1P - I bought a couple pairs from Ebay from somewhere in Russia, they were 1980 vintage 6N1P-EV with rocket logo from Voskhod tube facility. They were cheap compared to above tubes. Turns out I like these the best of all. High gain, very detailed, accurate top to bottom. I read people complain that they are edgy/fatiguing but I don't notice anything but clear, detailed good sound that is very present. I have also purchased a set of 10 used 6N1P-V from the 1960's also from a Russian seller for about $20 shipped, hasn't arrived yet, will try these also.
Overall I could live with cheaper tubes, Tung Sol 5U4GB and 6N1P's actually seemed to be my preference, until the EML 5U4G came, now it the monster rectifier with 6N1P-EV's.
I'm also going to try to get a pair of the Octal adapters when Wayne/Bolder make them available, to try out some 6SN7s. I have some nice Sylvnia 6SN7W tubes which have been used in my BAT amp, and have a set of TS Round Plates coming from the Ebay seller in Greece.
My system is all tubes, MW Transporter, Audio Research Ref 3 preamp, BAT VK-75SE amp with Dynaudio C1 monitors and a sub. I have a pair of Merlin VSM-MXe on the way also which were going to be my last pair of speakers, although the C1's sound really great.
sorry for the long first post
A second welcome - to a fellow 6N1P lover!
I too love the detail of the 6N1P and I'm the one that finds them a little fatiguing after a few days (just a little hardness to the sound)
What is very similar to the 6N1P, and mates well with the EML, is the 6N6P and can be found for a few $ each!
Definitely worth trying :thumb:
Here's the link Thalvor posted:
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html
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The whole thing is beautiful: the tube, the packaging, etc. but it will take a bit of getting used to.
David:
Please tell us your thoughts of the sound of the EML with the 6SN7s.
My 6SN7s on on the way! :thumb:
Ken
You know I will :wink: I am going to put at least 75 hours on it before I really listen to it though (at least that is what I am telling myself).
Hey David, any comments on the sound of the EML Mesh or are you still letting it break in?
Ken
Ken, I will have more comments next weekend as my 36.5 will be back to me towards the end of the week and then I will have a better baseline to compare it with. I will say that I do like the EML very much right now but for me the move to the 6SN7's was a bigger sonic leap than from my HW GZ37 to the EML. I reserve the right to completely change this opinion :wink:
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Hi all,
I am new to this thread. I purchased a MW Transporter from another owner a few months ago and have been delving also into tube rolling, following many other previous posters' suggestions regarding the rectifier and signal tubes. I never had original stock MW tubes so have been using various others. But i've been making up for lost time, and read up over the past 43+ pages of tube rolling experience.
I sent my unit in about a month ago to have fully upgraded/power supply platinum mods, Bybees. Made an immediate big noticeable difference, with more solid aural images/soundstage and better bass. That was well worth it.
Tubes I've tried:
Rectifier: Raytheon 5U4G black plate - kind of nice but a bit too dark sounding, lacks dynamics
Metal base GZ34 - better in every way, but now not my preference, after awhile noticed seemed to be a bit tubby/inflated sounding, not quite so natural
Tung Sol 5U4GB - my favorite out of these three, not as dynamic as metal base but has at least as big a soundstage and mids/voice sound more natural to me. Only paid $10 shipped from Ebay seller.
EML 5U4G - just received from Tubes USA this weekend, now has about 10 hrs. on it so far. Obviously the best sounding of all, great huge soundstage, natural sounding, images great, best of everything... worth the money. Sounded better than the first three right out of the box.
Signal tubes: 6H30-DR nice sound, musical but seems to be less detailed sounding than the subsequent tubes I've used, also gain very low, at least 6-8 dB lower than 6CG7, much lower than 6N1P
6CG7, RCA clear top, RCA black plates - I liked both of these tubes, the clear tops seemed more extended in treble, black plates had nicer/more textured midrange
6N1P - I bought a couple pairs from Ebay from somewhere in Russia, they were 1980 vintage 6N1P-EV with rocket logo from Voskhod tube facility. They were cheap compared to above tubes. Turns out I like these the best of all. High gain, very detailed, accurate top to bottom. I read people complain that they are edgy/fatiguing but I don't notice anything but clear, detailed good sound that is very present. I have also purchased a set of 10 used 6N1P-V from the 1960's also from a Russian seller for about $20 shipped, hasn't arrived yet, will try these also.
Overall I could live with cheaper tubes, Tung Sol 5U4GB and 6N1P's actually seemed to be my preference, until the EML 5U4G came, now it the monster rectifier with 6N1P-EV's.
I'm also going to try to get a pair of the Octal adapters when Wayne/Bolder make them available, to try out some 6SN7s. I have some nice Sylvnia 6SN7W tubes which have been used in my BAT amp, and have a set of TS Round Plates coming from the Ebay seller in Greece.
My system is all tubes, MW Transporter, Audio Research Ref 3 preamp, BAT VK-75SE amp with Dynaudio C1 monitors and a sub. I have a pair of Merlin VSM-MXe on the way also which were going to be my last pair of speakers, although the C1's sound really great.
sorry for the long first post
Hi Cfchew, Welcome!
Thats great your really enjoying your MWTP. I also have a all tube system as a matter of fact w/the Merlin Towers as well. And now you got me thinking about those 6N1Ps, esp since you like them so much and there real inexpensive. Might PM you later to see if you wanna sell and extra pair for me to try out. Not sure how your current speakers sound compared to Merlins but the Merlins are very detailed and IMO have a more forward sounding tweeter, so wondering now how the 6N1P's will mesh with them. Happy Rolling! :D
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I've been running 6SN7's for just under a week now, and ready to post my initial feedback.
I'm coming to the conclusion that the signal tube selection is all down to personal taste and system synergy. My system comprises Salk HT3's, I consider these to be extremely neutral and capable of fast deep bass, neutral midrange and an open/airy top end - not perfect but no speaker is (for example I find the soundstage is too flat). My amp is a highly modified Musical Fidelity KW500, the mods have deepened the bass, improved the mid-range and smoothed out the top end (not restricted it), all this means is I can go louder without realizing it. To put this in perspective others, that have compared my amp, find it warmer than the Modwright house sound. So I'm not looking for any mid-range warming in my system but looking for a tube that doesn't change the bass or mids and possibly extends the top end detail, as this is my personal preference and the smoothness of the amp/neutrality of the speakers can accommodate it.
What does this mean - I like 6N1P's/6N6P's and have turned my back on 6H30 DR's, unfortunately I found the 6N1P's a touch on the hard side with the 6N6P's having similar detail and potentially less harsh? Enter the EML, which added an organic element, and I was sitting back enjoying the EML/6N6P combination and going to give it a few weeks to get my long term reaction to it. This was not to be, enter the 6SN7's :duh: Putting in a pair of new production Tung Sol 6SN7 I noticed something different, maybe a more dimensional soundstage (lacking with my HT3's) and it didn't appear to lose the 6N6P detail but did sound a little coarse and unrefined. Jumping next to the Tung Sol round plate 6SN7's, they have the same family sound as the new production version without the coarseness, the difference isn't huge, but is significant. I think I could actually live with the new one in the short/medium term, but based on past experience, the round plate should possibly be less fatiguing over the long term.
Today - I've warmed up and tried 6N1P/6N6P/6SN7's.
The 6N6P's have been eliminated, on the basis of not being as detailed as 6N1P's or 6SN7's.
It's now a choice between the 6N1P's and the Tung Sol round plate 6SN7's, at the moment I feel the 6SN7's are going to be better to live with long term. I need to give them a few more days/weeks. I should also add that the 6N1P's are not the ones Dan sends but are the older version that cfchew referred to in his first post, these are slightly superior to the new ones (not the same night and day as moving from the 6H30's to the 6H30DR's, but enough to notice a difference).
My findings differ slightly from those already posted, again I feel this goes back to synergy/personal preference I inferred to at the beginning of this post. In my system, the EML rectifier tube has had more impact than the 6SN7's, the 6SN7's are more of a fine tuning.
At this stage I reserve the right to change my opinion! These are my initial reactions after 6 days, I normally allow a couple of weeks before making a final judgment on tubes.
After all this the MWTP is a phenomenal source, the tube rolling just allows us to fine tune it and support the global economy.
Phil
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Hi all,
Wayne any news on the adaptors becoming available?
Thanks!
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Hi all,
Wayne any news on the adaptors becoming available?
Thanks!
I just called him an hour ago and he said they are still a week or so away from becoming availible. Which for me works ok b/c I'm real busy rolling Tubes on my Captiole amp (thx to this forum, ive really researched tubes and the amp is starting to sing like never before) so two weeks gives me time to get that straightened out.
Just another toy/sound improvement to look forward too. Im just happy my amp takes a quad of 6SN7s and auto biases them , just gonna be interesting to see if I go all same NOS 6SN7s in amp and TP compared to mixing and matching which I assume will give me best results for fine tuning. TBD!
Chances are at the end of the day I will have some good tubes to sell since Im searching world over for best synergy in my system. At least the NOS tube market is still bullish esp if you do some DD and buy sharp.
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As some of you know I obtained a pair of the rare NOS Russian 6H8C octal tubes (6SN7 variety) from a seller here on AC. They arrived this week and are breaking in as I type this. Several of you wanted to get my first impressions, so here they are (caveat: the tubes are NOS and have less than 100 hrs on them):
Modwright Transporter with EML rectifier
Modwright dual mono LS 36.5 with dual metal base GZ34's in the PS and DR's in the line stage
Every good chef needs the best ingredients to create world-class tastes/cuisine. He or she might use spices from each end of the sweetness continuum, and might want to get his/her hands on that one very unique flavor that, although not used often, can be used when things get too yin or yang. The metal base Russian 6H8C is one of those tools in audio. From what I can tell it is very very good at what it does....one of the most detailed of 6SN7 tubes I've heard yet, but that detail comes with stark neutrality, almost a solid state like feeling, as if you took the best transistors and put them in the path. This tube is the savior for those systems where it's gotten too bloomy, too tubey, too much midrange wetness. It's a drying agent that has an incredible bandwidth. The soundstage is not very wide yet (but I blame that on limited break-in, mostly). I will report back by next weekend, but I've pulled the tube for now....my TP/36.5/Spectron siugnal path does NOT need a drying agent...especially since I had to give back to David my favorite 36.5 power cord, the incredibly warm yet incredibly detailed non-ferrite Cardas Golden Ref (one is on order). I'm running the wonderful RCA VT-231's and when we swapped them back in last night the sound was obvious.
So...if cfchew is looking for a 6SN7 for his all-tube system (ARC Ref 3, BAT, etc.) this is one to start with. It's detail is quite amazing. I may end up keeping my pair, cuz you never know; sometime we work so hard toward the neutral middle (for me, the warm side of neutral) and before you know it you've overshot the sound you love. This is one tool to bring it back.
Edit: 5:12pm. OK, I worked it out. These are the rectangular holed version. I am swapping them for the four round holed version, said to be a significant step up yet. Stay tuned.
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Hi Ted,
I was wondering if your Russian 6H8C tubes are labelled "1578" on the glass. There apparently are at least a couple different types of NOS Russian 6H8C. The 1578 tubes seem to be the most sought after and have multiple round holes in the plates running vertically. I have not tried these in my BAT amp but have heard that they are among the best/competitive with TS Round Plate, Sylvania metal base, etc. I puchased some other type of Russian metal base 6H8C which are not labelled 1578 and have a different plate structure, with a couple rectangular holes in each plate. They were purchased from an Audiogon seller before I did any further research, and at least in my power amp they didn't sound like anything special, seemed less detailed and airy, more closed in than the Sylvania tubes I normally use. I am seeing these on Ebay many listings right now.
Again, I am waiting for the octal adapters to become available before I have a chance to roll 6SN7 in the Transporter.
So far after some more days gone by, I haven't changed anything else, the EML Mesh Plate has been a major improvement in the "liveness" of the sound and I still really like the 6N1P's. I am still waiting on some older 6N1P from Russia to arrive. I was thinking about ordering trying 6N6P at someone's suggestion but heard they are not as detailed as 6N1P? I think the detail in my system right now is just right.
-Cliff (cfchew)
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Cliff,
After speaking with Brent Jesse I realize I have the wrong tubes; i.e. not the ones he was crowing about, although mine do have metal bases.. I have requested the correct ones, which according to Brent (and yourself) are the ones with the four round holes up the vertical wall of the plate. Mine have two rectangular holes and are considered average. They sound good, as I said, but not what I went for. I can only imagine what the correct tube detail is like. Stay tuned.
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Ted, what do the good Russian ones cost?
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My seller was showing both types in his photos (no change in $$) so I'm asking that a swap be done.
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My seller was showing both types in his photos (no change in $$) so I'm asking that a swap be done.
AH! That makes sense, cool. Let us know how it works out. Right now you would have to try my Tung Sol's from my dead hands :o, but I look forward to your thoughts on these.
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Ted, what do the good Russian ones cost?
Looking at Brent's website, looks like they cost $200/pair but he is out of stock.
We do have an AC member (Tyrro) selling pairs for $150 here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64843.msg598782;topicseen#new
George
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Tyrro is a good guy. He let me swap for the round holes version, although he claims the metal bases are all the same (i.e they are NOT the rectangular holed black bases, they metal bases). I'll be able to confirm that, assuming you'll buy my memory of one vs the other. It's always difficult if you don't a/b realtime.
Ted
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I bought some on EBAY. Not here yet, but the look like the square holes.....oh well, should have waited until I heard all of your comments....i don't even have an octal adapter, but then again, these might be good at one of the 3 positions in my BAT AMP
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:31&Item=400032337732
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These look very interesting:
http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z
Could they be the 6SN7 equivalent to the Emission Labs 5U4G, updated manufacturing technology and QC?
Group buy opportunity ends tomorrow:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64342.msg599022;topicseen#new
Anyone feeling brave?
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These look very interesting:
http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z
Could they be the 6SN7 equivalent to the Emission Labs 5U4G, updated manufacturing technology and QC?
Group buy opportunity ends tomorrow:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64342.msg599022;topicseen#new
Anyone feeling brave?
I'll stick with the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates.
George
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Phil, if you want to buy them I would be happy to listen to them :lol:
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I feel like Roger Rabbit in the scene when he's in the wall cavity and Judge Doom is tapping out 'shave and a haircut.............'
On a more serious note I've obtained the group buy price details and, if anyone is interested, now would be a good time to buy them.
When we started the rectifier quest all the forum regulars (myself included) were going down the path of vintage tubes, while some of the more adventurous owners were exploring the EML 5U4G. No one knows all the reasons why the EML tube are so good, but it's probably a combination of: design, materials technology (glass and alloys), improvements in vacuum technology and modern QC techniques. When I compare the coveted metal base GZ34, and EML 5U4G, with the Tung Sol round plate 6SN7 and the Shuguang 6SN7, I see potential similar comparisons in design/materials/QC.
So, this could be a 'find' or it could be a 'stinker' - am I ready to press the button? :dunno:
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Hey guys, I thought I would give a short report on my recent rolling experiences, even though it is nothing new to many in this thread. First let me start by saying that I went from stock tubes in my LS-36.5 to a early 60's fat base GZ34, and then to a later 60's "Valvo" version of the same mullard rectifier tube. The difference between the fat base and the Valvo are very subtle to my ears, and very hard to articulate. I have not decided which I prefer, but either one could live happily in the 36.5. I dropped a pair of DRs into the signal tube spots and they will remain there, the increased punch, and dynamics that they give would be hard to let go. I started with stock tubes in the Transporter until I settled on the Valvo + DR combo in the 36.5, and then tried the fat base in the Transporter. For me, there was just too much midrange with two Mullard-GZ34's in the chain, so after a few days I tried out a 1964 Tung Sol 5AS4 (5U4GB equivalent (I think)) and that worked great, gave me more sparkle in the highs, and a deeper bass response, removing the somewhat over ripe mids I had with the two GZ34's. I left the 5AS4 in place and rolled in my RCA clear tops, and then the Sovetek 6H30's (that came with my LS) for some comparison with the stock 6N1P (also Sovtek). Well, the 6N1P's are certainly the most detailed of the three, with the Mullard I think they were a good match because they tended to balance out the mid richness a bit. The Clear Tops sounded pretty good with the 5AS4, but I still wasn't happy with the over-all presentation. My favorite signal tubes with the Tung Sol 5AS4 turned out to be the 6H30's (I have not tried the DPs in both the TP and the LS yet). This combo brought the best balance through the range to my ears, and in my room, but still I had a couple more rectifiers to try out. I left the 6H30's in place and tried out the Rogers 5U4G that I got for free. It's hard to say what I felt about that tube because I was so paranoid about it that I pulled it almost right away (purely a psychological thing, because it seems to work just fine). I would like to try a Tung Sol 5U4G (ST) but haven't acquired one yet, though as far as I can tell it is virtually the same as the Rogers tube that I have. Down to the last rectifier that I own, and that is a HW CV378. This tube has all the qualities that I liked in the 5AS4, but with a better soundstage, and a touch more bass. David has covered the qualities of the HW very well in the past, and I have to say that it has not been removed since I put it in place (aside from initial burn-in). I tried the 6n1p with the HW, and felt that it was a little too crisp on the highs, and I lost some of the deep bass I was getting before. Once I rolled in the RCA cleartops things sort of balanced out again. This is the combo that I am listening to right now, and I am pretty happy with it, but not completely satisfied. I feel like I am missing a little in the mid-bass area, not sure if it is the tube combo or the room, or what. I know the HT3's aren't lacking there, unless there is some sort of suck out with the new woofer that hasn't come to light (Dennis' graphs only go down to 200Hz). It could also be my hearing. Either way I want to try out some Tung Sol 6CG7's or perhaps a pair of 1950's Sylvania 6CG7's, or black plate RCAs... all are said to be warmer tubes, and I am hoping that this translates into a little more bass guitar presence, and not a loss of detail in the high end. (if anyone has any matched pairs of these they want unload... hint, hint) The 6SN7 varieties might give me what I am looking for as well, but I am not quite ready to go there.
The HW CV378 + RCA clear-top combo is the best that I have found so far (I think that is the same thing David had settled on before going octal), with the Tung Sol 5AS4 + 6H30 coming in second. I thought I should contribute a little with my findings since you guys, and this thread, have been such a great help in clearing my wallet of any extra money that enters it. :wink: Thanks :D
Some recordings I found to sound better with different tubes, my findings were based on general listening satisfaction.
Cheers,
Greg
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Still running the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates via Wayne's (Bolder Cable) adapters, but I thought I would post a few pics.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18490)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18490)
Here is an updated picture of the system from the listening spot:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18492)
George
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Hey guys, I thought I would give a short report on my recent rolling experiences, even though it is nothing new to many in this thread. First let me start by saying that I went from stock tubes in my LS-36.5 to a early 60's fat base GZ34, and then to a later 60's "Valvo" version of the same mullard rectifier tube. The difference between the fat base and the Valvo are very subtle to my ears, and very hard to articulate. I have not decided which I prefer, but either one could live happily in the 36.5. I dropped a pair of DRs into the signal tube spots and they will remain there, the increased punch, and dynamics that they give would be hard to let go. I started with stock tubes in the Transporter until I settled on the Valvo + DR combo in the 36.5, and then tried the fat base in the Transporter. For me, there was just too much midrange with two Mullard-GZ34's in the chain, so after a few days I tried out a 1964 Tung Sol 5AS4 (5U4GB equivalent (I think)) and that worked great, gave me more sparkle in the highs, and a deeper bass response, removing the somewhat over ripe mids I had with the two GZ34's. I left the 5AS4 in place and rolled in my RCA clear tops, and then the Sovetek 6H30's (that came with my LS) for some comparison with the stock 6N1P (also Sovtek). Well, the 6N1P's are certainly the most detailed of the three, with the Mullard I think they were a good match because they tended to balance out the mid richness a bit. The Clear Tops sounded pretty good with the 5AS4, but I still wasn't happy with the over-all presentation. My favorite signal tubes with the Tung Sol 5AS4 turned out to be the 6H30's (I have not tried the DPs in both the TP and the LS yet). This combo brought the best balance through the range to my ears, and in my room, but still I had a couple more rectifiers to try out. I left the 6H30's in place and tried out the Rogers 5U4G that I got for free. It's hard to say what I felt about that tube because I was so paranoid about it that I pulled it almost right away (purely a psychological thing, because it seems to work just fine). I would like to try a Tung Sol 5U4G (ST) but haven't acquired one yet, though as far as I can tell it is virtually the same as the Rogers tube that I have. Down to the last rectifier that I own, and that is a HW CV378. This tube has all the qualities that I liked in the 5AS4, but with a better soundstage, and a touch more bass. David has covered the qualities of the HW very well in the past, and I have to say that it has not been removed since I put it in place (aside from initial burn-in). I tried the 6n1p with the HW, and felt that it was a little too crisp on the highs, and I lost some of the deep bass I was getting before. Once I rolled in the RCA cleartops things sort of balanced out again. This is the combo that I am listening to right now, and I am pretty happy with it, but not completely satisfied. I feel like I am missing a little in the mid-bass area, not sure if it is the tube combo or the room, or what. I know the HT3's aren't lacking there, unless there is some sort of suck out with the new woofer that hasn't come to light (Dennis' graphs only go down to 200Hz). It could also be my hearing. Either way I want to try out some Tung Sol 6CG7's or perhaps a pair of 1950's Sylvania 6CG7's, or black plate RCAs... all are said to be warmer tubes, and I am hoping that this translates into a little more bass guitar presence, and not a loss of detail in the high end. (if anyone has any matched pairs of these they want unload... hint, hint) The 6SN7 varieties might give me what I am looking for as well, but I am not quite ready to go there.
The HW CV378 + RCA clear-top combo is the best that I have found so far (I think that is the same thing David had settled on before going octal), with the Tung Sol 5AS4 + 6H30 coming in second. I thought I should contribute a little with my findings since you guys, and this thread, have been such a great help in clearing my wallet of any extra money that enters it. :wink: Thanks :D
Some recordings I found to sound better with different tubes, my findings were based on general listening satisfaction.
Cheers,
Greg
Greg, in the spirit of emptying your wallet further my recommendation would be to get the EML 5U4G locked in your TP first of all and use this as the foundation to explore your existing stash of signal tubes. The reason I recommend this is because the EML gives all the individual benefits of the other rectifier tubes in one package, and then adds an additional dimension the others don't have. This dimension is a non-digital, organic feel that transforms the Transporter.
Not the answer you were looking for but I feel this would be the optimum solution.
Phil
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These look very interesting:
http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z
Could they be the 6SN7 equivalent to the Emission Labs 5U4G, updated manufacturing technology and QC?
Group buy opportunity ends tomorrow:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64342.msg599022;topicseen#new
Anyone feeling brave?
I chickened out in the end. :dunno:
But came oh so close to pulling the trigger :guns:
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my 2 cents about rolling the Transporter.. I've been using the Mullard GZ37(CV378) with the RCA cleartops and have liked that combo for a couple months. I got the EML 5U4G last Monday and have about 100 hrs on it so far. I've used the EML with the RCA and although it sounded good but I felt it was a little soft up top. My system is pretty much all tubed and is very smooth but a little too smooth with the RCA. Today I tried the EML with the 6n1p and found I got the detailed high end I like and the warm organic sound of the EML. I like it ;) I had some non audiophile friends over tonight and they both prefered the EML 6n1p combo. It was fun to see that non audiophiles could actually hear a difference and have a preference :lol: :lol: I have some 6n6p's coming next week and will give those a whirl. I think I'll get some 6sn7 adapters and give that a try too.
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in the spirit of emptying your wallet further my recommendation would be to get the EML 5U4G locked in your TP first of all and use this as the foundation to explore your existing stash of signal tubes. The reason I recommend this is because the EML gives all the individual benefits of the other rectifier tubes in one package, and then adds an additional dimension the others don't have. This dimension is a non-digital, organic feel that transforms the Transporter.
Not the answer you were looking for but I feel this would be the optimum solution.
Phil
Thanks Phil, I would actually love to try it out, but I just don't have the space available for that gigantic tube. The HW barely fits the space I have, and (for the time being at least) I'm limited by that. I would be very pleased, and first in line, if EML decided to produce a smaller version, sized more like the traditional ST tubes... and if they made a GZ34 I would try that out in the LS-36.5. Oh well, I'll figure something out. :dunno: By the time I can try an EML you guys will have found the next Holy Grail anyway. :rock:
Cheers,
Greg
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in the spirit of emptying your wallet further my recommendation would be to get the EML 5U4G locked in your TP first of all and use this as the foundation to explore your existing stash of signal tubes. The reason I recommend this is because the EML gives all the individual benefits of the other rectifier tubes in one package, and then adds an additional dimension the others don't have. This dimension is a non-digital, organic feel that transforms the Transporter.
Not the answer you were looking for but I feel this would be the optimum solution.
Phil
Thanks Phil, I would actually love to try it out, but I just don't have the space available for that gigantic tube. The HW barely fits the space I have, and (for the time being at least) I'm limited by that. I would be very pleased, and first in line, if EML decided to produce a smaller version, sized more like the traditional ST tubes... and if they made a GZ34 I would try that out in the LS-36.5. Oh well, I'll figure something out. :dunno: By the time I can try an EML you guys will have found the next Holy Grail anyway. :rock:
Cheers,
Greg
Forgot about your height restriction Greg, as you mention it looks like the 6CG7 and 6FQ7 are the principal options open to you at this stage and are also probably your best bet. I have some very cheap RCA black plate 6CG7's that work well and a cryoed pair of 6FQ7's, both of these have the same family sound and come closest to what you're looking for. The only caveat being that I've not tried the HW yet so have no idea how they interact with it.
A wild card is the 6N6P, again not sure as to how it pairs with the HW but it's only a few $. At this stage though it looks like you'll be heading off into 6SN7 territory to get the balance you're looking for.
In the meantime, if you want to send me a PM I can loan the tubes I mention out to you.
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Thanks for the offer Phil, you are very kind, but I'll just pick something up as they are not too expensive, and pop up on ebay now and then. You say the RCA blackplate 6GC7 might be a good one, any particular years/codes I should keep an eye out for? I thought that the 6FQ7 was just an updated label for a 6CG7, as many seem to carry both labels starting in the 70's. Are there any 6FQ7s (specifically) that I should keep an eye out for?
I'm going to try and give my wife the hard sell to let me put the TP on top of the cabinet, so I can have space to try the EML. I'll have to take her out for dinner, and get her drunk before I pitch it. 8) Most likely just getting her to agree with it will cost more than the tube! At least I am enjoying my current set-up, and any changes this way will have to wait for my tax refund anyway.
Rydenfan- any updates to your thoughts about the EML?
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Still running the Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plates via Wayne's (Bolder Cable) adapters, but I thought I would post a few pics.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18490)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18490)
NICE system! It appears you are running direct from amps to MWTP, that is interesting if that is the case, wondering if you have tried the preamp route? Also also notice you have one of those old fashioned disc spinners, does that get any play?
Here is an updated picture of the system from the listening spot:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18492)
George
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Berto,
That IS a preamp that is directly under it, with "CD" listed as the selected input. It's the Plinius pre. George used to go direct, but the addition of the pre took his system to whole new levels.
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Berto,
That IS a preamp that is directly under it, with "CD" listed as the selected input. It's the Plinius pre. George used to go direct, but the addition of the pre took his system to whole new levels.
You are correct Ted on both accounts.
The preamp is a Plinius M8.
I have updated my system page with the latest info and it can be seen here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711
George
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what's in the plastic bag, and what's it for?......looks like a bag of spaghettii :P
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Thanks for the offer Phil, you are very kind, but I'll just pick something up as they are not too expensive, and pop up on ebay now and then. You say the RCA blackplate 6GC7 might be a good one, any particular years/codes I should keep an eye out for? I thought that the 6FQ7 was just an updated label for a 6CG7, as many seem to carry both labels starting in the 70's. Are there any 6FQ7s (specifically) that I should keep an eye out for?
I'm going to try and give my wife the hard sell to let me put the TP on top of the cabinet, so I can have space to try the EML. I'll have to take her out for dinner, and get her drunk before I pitch it. 8) Most likely just getting her to agree with it will cost more than the tube! At least I am enjoying my current set-up, and any changes this way will have to wait for my tax refund anyway.
Rydenfan- any updates to your thoughts about the EML?
Greg, I'm lucky as the 6112 tubes in my preamp are soldered in - which puts the halt on any tube rolling opportunities. You guys with the 36.5 and the TP have a multitude of tube rolling combination's and permutations, so feedback from other 36.5 owners such as Ted, David etc might be more valid for you than my tube rolling exercises? Of the tubes I mentioned, they are all minor 'tweaks' that may or may not fine tune what you currently have to your satisfaction. Whereas I regard both the EML and the 6SN7 more of a step change in their own right and, I believe, have a greater chance of giving you the sound you are looking for.
If you're reasonably satisfied with the sound you have at the moment I would enjoy it for the time being. This will then give you time to get more data points on the EML and the 6SN7 from other users, save up the $ required to intoxicate Mrs Funkmonkey (if necessary) and also let the rest of the tube rolling crew go in different directions. It's also interesting that some rollers started with the EML, others started with 6SN7's, and it appears that we are tending towards similar conclusions.
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6H30DR vs 6CG7 RCA clear top--a contrarian view
I received my EML mesh tube a couple of weeks ago and immediately decided that I liked it best of all....just like everyone else who has done this....I guess my metal base 5AR4 can go up for sale on Ebay.
When I installed it, I think I also did a quick check of 6H30 vs 6CG7. I left the RCA 6CG7 in there and pretty much forgot about it, but somehow was under the impression that I was using the 6H30. I am of course awaiting the octal adapter so that I can explore 6SN7s. Today, I took a look and saw that I had the 6H30 sitting on the sidelines and the RCAs were installed. I switched in the 6H30s and immediately felt more comfortable and at home. A bit of harshness faded, but the bigger deal was richer tones, especially vocals and woodwinds. There was also a more dimensional textured soundstage. No contest for me. I do agree that I might have given up a bit of resolution, but in my system, the 6H30 was more musical.
waiting for Tung sol round plates, octal adapter, and the time and energy to compare a bunch of different 6sn7 variants.
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Berto,
That IS a preamp that is directly under it, with "CD" listed as the selected input. It's the Plinius pre. George used to go direct, but the addition of the pre took his system to whole new levels.
You are correct Ted on both accounts.
The preamp is a Plinius M8.
I have updated my system page with the latest info and it can be seen here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=711
George
:duh: Kool piece of equiment, very future-istic, fits in nicely with the transporter look. Yeh you really do need a pre as Dan will be the first to tell you. Piece looks so kool I had no clue what it was.. :icon_lol: I heard same co's amp powering a pair of totem mani-2s and accuphase cd player and it sounded divine!
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6H30DR vs 6CG7 RCA clear top--a contrarian view
I received my EML mesh tube a couple of weeks ago and immediately decided that I liked it best of all....just like everyone else who has done this....I guess my metal base 5AR4 can go up for sale on Ebay.
When I installed it, I think I also did a quick check of 6H30 vs 6CG7. I left the RCA 6CG7 in there and pretty much forgot about it, but somehow was under the impression that I was using the 6H30. I am of course awaiting the octal adapter so that I can explore 6SN7s. Today, I took a look and saw that I had the 6H30 sitting on the sidelines and the RCAs were installed. I switched in the 6H30s and immediately felt more comfortable and at home. A bit of harshness faded, but the bigger deal was richer tones, especially vocals and woodwinds. There was also a more dimensional textured soundstage. No contest for me. I do agree that I might have given up a bit of resolution, but in my system, the 6H30 was more musical.
waiting for Tung sol round plates, octal adapter, and the time and energy to compare a bunch of different 6sn7 variants.
It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences, system synergies and rooms.
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It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences, system synergies and rooms.
Phil,
Until I hear the EML in my system, I actually feel the opposite. As stated previously, adding the 6SN7's into the mix have had a bigger impact in shaping the sound of the TP than selecting different rectifier tubes.
Of course, this might change for me once I hear the EML.
I am also not sure how the Platinum or Hyper-Drive mod impacts all the tube rolling. My unit is still "stock" and hasn't been upgraded yet.
George
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My ModWright Transporter has the Platinum Mods and I replaced the standard fuses with HiFi Tuning Fuses. Prior to Dan performing the upgrades my favorite tubes was the MB GZ-34 Rectifier and 6H30DRs. After the upgrades I found the DRs produced a boomy bass and I switched in the 6CG7's that the DRs replaced prior to the upgrades. The boominess was gone and I discovered upper end detail that I was missing with the DRs. Based on this experience I felt the Platinum mods definitely had an impact on the sound quality from the Transporter.
It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences, system synergies and rooms.
Many of you know that I was one of the early purchasers of the EML Mesh 5U4G. Upon initial installation I had to question myself because it sounded so much better than the MB. Over several weeks I switched the MB back into the system 3 times to make certain what I thought I was hearing for differences was real. Well, as many of you have discovered this tube is a real winner and as Phil noted is a significant upgrade over the previous favorite rectifier - the MB GZ-34.
I have experimented with the 6SN7 tubes over the past week and a half. Initially my only pair of 6SN7's were RCA VT-231 GTs with black plates and smoked glass from the 40's and I received a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates from Greece on Saturday. To be honest my experience with the RCA's had me upset at myself for jumping, so early, on the 6SN7 band wagon. The RCA VT-231's increased the sound stage and produced a warmer mid-range but upper detail was lost versus the 6CG7's. Enter the Tung-Sol Round Plates and even not broken-in they are the real deal. With these tubes my system is producing music with detail and a seductive quality I have not heard before. I have a pair of the NOS Russian Tubes on order but based on what I am hearing with the Round Plates they, unfortunately, deserve to be desirable tubes to own.
In conclusion if you decide to pursue the 6SN7's you are doing so to produce what you hope will be better sound than you currently have. If you go for the 6SN7's you, unfortunately, will never be happy until you at least try the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the EML Mesh 5U4G. Sorry guys, but this tube rolling is not only addictive, it is damn expensive. :duh:
Ken
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It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences, system synergies and rooms.
Phil,
Until I hear the EML in my system, I actually feel the opposite. As stated previously, adding the 6SN7's into the mix have had a bigger impact in shaping the sound of the TP than selecting different rectifier tubes.
Of course, this might change for me once I hear the EML.
I am also not sure how the Platinum or Hyper-Drive mod impacts all the tube rolling. My unit is still "stock" and hasn't been upgraded yet.
George
George, I am in agreement with you. The 6SN7's were a bigger sonic leap in my system than the EML. That being said the EML is still currently my favorite rectifier.
Ken, glad to see you are enjoying the Tung Sols :drool:
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My ModWright Transporter has the Platinum Mods and I replaced the standard fuses with HiFi Tuning Fuses. Prior to Dan performing the upgrades my favorite tubes was the MB GZ-34 Rectifier and 6H30DRs. After the upgrades I found the DRs produced a boomy bass and I switched in the 6CG7's that the DRs replaced prior to the upgrades. The boominess was gone and I discovered upper end detail that I was missing with the DRs. Based on this experience I felt the Platinum mods definitely had an impact on the sound quality from the Transporter.
It looks like the EML is the optimum rectifier tube in most, if not all systems, and the signal tube is the fine tuning device based on individuals preferences, system synergies and rooms.
Many of you know that I was one of the early purchasers of the EML Mesh 5U4G. Upon initial installation I had to question myself because it sounded so much better than the MB. Over several weeks I switched the MB back into the system 3 times to make certain what I thought I was hearing for differences was real. Well, as many of you have discovered this tube is a real winner and as Phil noted is a significant upgrade over the previous favorite rectifier - the MB GZ-34.
I have experimented with the 6SN7 tubes over the past week and a half. Initially my only pair of 6SN7's were RCA VT-231 GTs with black plates and smoked glass from the 40's and I received a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates from Greece on Saturday. To be honest my experience with the RCA's had me upset at myself for jumping, so early, on the 6SN7 band wagon. The RCA VT-231's increased the sound stage and produced a warmer mid-range but upper detail was lost versus the 6CG7's. Enter the Tung-Sol Round Plates and even not broken-in they are the real deal. With these tubes my system is producing music with detail and a seductive quality I have not heard before. I have a pair of the NOS Russian Tubes on order but based on what I am hearing with the Round Plates they, unfortunately, deserve to be desirable tubes to own.
In conclusion if you decide to pursue the 6SN7's you are doing so to produce what you hope will be better sound than you currently have. If you go for the 6SN7's you, unfortunately, will never be happy until you at least try the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the EML Mesh 5U4G. Sorry guys, but this tube rolling is not only addictive, it is damn expensive. :duh:
Ken
You could try some Raytheon VT231 and the best 6SN7 (to my ears) : the Mullard ECC33 Fat base.
I own a lot of 6SN7 : RCA 5692, TungSol round plates, Raytheon VT231, RCA black plates, RCA VT231 smoked, Sylvania Chrome dome, Sylvania 6SN7W small bottle, Sylvania 6SN7W tall bottle, Mullard ECC33, Mullard CV2821 (military version of the ECC33), GEC B65, Sylvania VT231, STC Factory CV1988, Mullard CV1988, Philips 6SN7 and a few other...
By the way i had no chance to listen to the EML 5U4 yet (out of stock here) but the best rectfier i heard so far is the Coke bottle CV378 from Cossor or Mullard, WAY better than the MB Philips.
I currently use a pair of shielded 6CG7 RCA clear top (the 6H30DR are too dark and miss a lot of informations) with the CV370 Coke bottle and it's just great.
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I have experimented with the 6SN7 tubes over the past week and a half. Initially my only pair of 6SN7's were RCA VT-231 GTs with black plates and smoked glass from the 40's and I received a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates from Greece on Saturday. To be honest my experience with the RCA's had me upset at myself for jumping, so early, on the 6SN7 band wagon. The RCA VT-231's increased the sound stage and produced a warmer mid-range but upper detail was lost versus the 6CG7's. Enter the Tung-Sol Round Plates and even not broken-in they are the real deal. With these tubes my system is producing music with detail and a seductive quality I have not heard before. I have a pair of the NOS Russian Tubes on order but based on what I am hearing with the Round Plates they, unfortunately, deserve to be desirable tubes to own.
In conclusion if you decide to pursue the 6SN7's you are doing so to produce what you hope will be better sound than you currently have. If you go for the 6SN7's you, unfortunately, will never be happy until you at least try the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the EML Mesh 5U4G. Sorry guys, but this tube rolling is not only addictive, it is damn expensive. :duh:
Ken
Ken,
While I totally agree that the Tung Sol Round Plates are the cat's meow, you can get some excellent 6SN7's/VT-231's for a significantly smaller investment. I would suggest people try NOS Ken-Rad, Raytheon, or Sylvania VT-231's. Any of these tubes will give you some really great sound at a much more reasonable price.
George
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One of the issues with the vintage tubes is that we all have different data points, for example our mb GZ34's/5U4's etc may be different versions and have differing past histories. Whereas with the new EML the performance will be more constant and represents a common base performance. What this results in is that we all have different deltas when we compare our vintage rectifier tube with the EML.
As I mentioned earlier, we are coming at this from different directions - some from the rectifier tube and others from the signal tube. But we are all drawing the same, or similar conclusion, and that is the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 is a killer combination. Whatever approach we take the MWTP is a very engaging and enjoyable musical source. I've kept the EML/TS 6SN7 as a constant over the last 4 days and it just sounds better and better, my tube rolling days are over...........until we find something better :duh:
George, Dan's view on the Hyper-Drive mod was that it should not impact our tube choice preference. In the beginning I thought he was wrong, but ultimately agreed with him. That's probably why he's Mr Wright.
Phil
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George, I am in agreement with you. The 6SN7's were a bigger sonic leap in my system than the EML. That being said the EML is still currently my favorite rectifier.
Ken, glad to see you are enjoying the Tung Sols :drool:
BTW, my favorite rectifier (I haven't heard the EML yet) is now the BEL GZ34 5AR4 - 1970s NOS. In my system, it is more balanced top to bottom than the MB GZ34 and doesn't have the lower mid-range hump. I also think it is a little more extended on top. Even better news...you can get this tube for around $60. :green:
George
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I've posted from the start of the hyper mod discussion that, to me, the mod DOES in fact change our tube rolling. I posted that the DR's are now completely out of the question for me (in the TP) as they impart too much of a boomy bass and thick midrange in combo with the hypermod. The hypermod added so much needed weight and authority (as a good power supply upgrade should) that it made the signal tube decisions different IMO. I told Dan that we agree to disagree. Now I see Ken posting about it (the DR exclusion) and applaud his golden ears. :lol:
Really, all of us have collectively nailed it; to the point where this tube rolling is getting down to some empirical truths...yikes, does this mean we've discovered the combo and can now rest our wallets and rolling fingers? The EML is a no-brainer, and is a consistent performer for all of us cuz it's a consistent production tube. I'm very surprised that my No. 2 fave, the RCA VT-231 loses some detail for Ken, but it's moot, cuz the TS round plates win anyway (my own real pair arrive this week from Brent). But I bought the RCA VT-231's for $70/pair and could live with them if I hadn't heard the round plates. I also have the correct pair of Russian 6H8C's coming, but plan on using them only if my system changes elsewhere. George's comments on the Raytheons et al, and other suggestions, like my posts about the $40 RCA silver labels, for example, give great options for the small budget combos (although the EML is still mandatory :D ).
So, the big issues, as I see them, are these:
1) where can you put the MW TP on you rack, so the EML has room to breathe (think 8" spacing above the cover)
2) are the octal adapters worth it if you've found a magical EML/6CG7 combo (my opinion: yes!)
3) when can we get together and toast Dan and his Company? I've never enjoyed listening to music as much as I do now!!! :thumb: And I always can use a reason to drink. :wine:
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I've kept the EML/TS 6SN7 as a constant over the last 4 days and it just sounds better and better
Phil, Ken and I have followed the same path recently with the EML/TS 6SN7 and arrived at the same conclusion. The combo just seems to do everything right with much to praise and little or nothing, aside from cost, to criticize. Were I starting to roll tubes with a new MWTP today, this would be my first, and maybe last choice. Going on day 6, I just can't seem to pry this combo out of the TP.
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I've kept the EML/TS 6SN7 as a constant over the last 4 days and it just sounds better and better
Phil, Ken and I have followed the same path recently with the EML/TS 6SN7 and arrived at the same conclusion. The combo just seems to do everything right with much to praise and little or nothing, aside from cost, to criticize. Were I starting to roll tubes with a new MWTP today, this would be my first, and maybe last choice. Going on day 6, I just can't seem to pry this combo out of the TP.
Hey guys,
Well, as my system is now a good way towards breaking in (I received the latest bybee/turbo mods around the same time as my Spectron Mk2 monos, Red Wine Audio Isabella, and Acoustic Systems Liveline power, interconnects, and speaker cables), I am hearing a big change towards a more meaty, density than I think is natural. It used to work well, but now I'm wondering with system break in whether the Mullard GZ34 Fat Black Base and DR's as a combo are adding too much richness. So, I'm likely following on the EML/6SN7 path to open things up. So I am curious whether I am getting the price shopping right. It seems that the TS round/oval with the blackened glass in good condition are upwards of $450. Does this seem right or am I not finding something? In the interim, I'm going to try Dan's original signal tubes again for the heck of it...
Jim
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Hey guys,
Well, as my system is now a good way towards breaking in (I received the latest bybee/turbo mods around the same time as my Spectron Mk2 monos, Red Wine Audio Isabella, and Acoustic Systems Liveline power, interconnects, and speaker cables), I am hearing a big change towards a more meaty, density than I think is natural. It used to work well, but now I'm wondering with system break in whether the Mullard GZ34 Fat Black Base and DR's as a combo are adding too much richness. So, I'm likely following on the EML/6SN7 path to open things up. So I am curious whether I am getting the price shopping right. It seems that the TS round/oval with the blackened glass in good condition are upwards of $450. Does this seem right or am I not finding something? In the interim, I'm going to try Dan's original signal tubes again for the heck of it...
Jim
Jim:
I believe many of us were running the 6H30DRs for signal tubes prior to the Turbo Upgrades and Bybee Mods. After the mods many of us found other signal tubes to sound better. In my case I settled for a pair of RCA 6CG7's with the MB GZ-34 and later with the EML Mesh 5U4G. As stated in an earlier post I am finding the EML/Tung Sol Round Plate combination to be the best I have heard in my system.
Good Luck,
Ken
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Yes, the TS round plates go for anywhere from $290 (lucky Ebay win) to $450 (matched pair from reputable dealers like Brent Jesse). They are great, but expensive. When i first brought up the idea of using an octal adapter to open up the gene pool of tubes for rolling I knew there were some great 6SN7's out there, but it was George (Zybar) who first brought up the TS round plates as being the king...although at the time we never really took it seriously. Well, fast forward a few months and we're all going to that place!! I guess for new tube rollers it seems like a lot of money, but it's almost a guaranteed lock. Put it this way: spend $60 a pair on 8-12 different sets of 6CG7's (let alone 6SN7's) and others..then add up the total costs. Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part. :D
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Too bad we didnt orchestrate a group buy on the Tung Sols from the Greece seller :duh: I think we have bought quite a few pairs from him over the last month or so :wink:
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Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part. :D
Boy, I'm glad to hear you say that, Ted. With 46 pages of posts, and over 30K reads this thread is by far the most popular in this circle. But each time I check in on it I can't help but wonder, jeez, do these guys ever listen to any music?!? :dunno: I completely agree; the fun part comes when you are not longer listening to components or some aspect of them. I am reminded of that lately in comparing components. I'm envious of you guys who have the time to tinker this way. At heart though, I tend to be more of a set it and forget it type, and prefer to spend the little spare time I have enjoying the music. I've done my share of tube rolling and tweaking, for sure, but it usually doesn't last very long, and I guess I don't have the mindset to continue to relentlessly pursue squeezing every drop of performance from a piece of gear, especially Dan's stuff which is so great right out of the box. That's why I love folks like Dan who design by listening, and have essentially done that for us from the beginning. Seriously, my hat's off to you guys who are doing the same here with this tube rolling thread - it is a tremendous resource! Thank you for sharing your efforts and resources here.
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Yes, the TS round plates go for anywhere from $290 (lucky Ebay win) to $450 (matched pair from reputable dealers like Brent Jesse). They are great, but expensive. When i first brought up the idea of using an octal adapter to open up the gene pool of tubes for rolling I knew there were some great 6SN7's out there, but it was George (Zybar) who first brought up the TS round plates as being the king...although at the time we never really took it seriously. Well, fast forward a few months and we're all going to that place!! I guess for new tube rollers it seems like a lot of money, but it's almost a guaranteed lock. Put it this way: spend $60 a pair on 8-12 different sets of 6CG7's (let alone 6SN7's) and others..then add up the total costs. Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part. :D
I just got my TS rounds today from Greece, luv the boxes marked 1944, they look just like the pics, hope I can get some adaptors soon. Also got a pair of the RCA VT-231's, paid 350$ for both pairs, so there are deals to be had out there. Actually saw a pair of Ebay TS rounds auction for a Lil under $200 w/o shipping. So if your patient (which I'm not overly) you can find some good deals.
I'm Excited to hear about your word on the "right" Russian tubes, if they can hang with the TS's especially. (like the Brent Jesse review).
As you alluded to, its more important to buy one expensive pair of tubes and have the right ones, then trying several pairs of inferior ones. All this prob translates into me prob having a pair of NOS RCA VT-231 6SN7s for sale, no worries since they go for up too a $175 a pair from US sellers. Might keep'em since my Amp is currently running quad of same tubes, or might sell all RCA's if the "right" Russian tubes can beat them. TS's I'm assuming are keepers but TBD!
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Yes, the TS round plates go for anywhere from $290 (lucky Ebay win) to $450 (matched pair from reputable dealers like Brent Jesse). They are great, but expensive. When i first brought up the idea of using an octal adapter to open up the gene pool of tubes for rolling I knew there were some great 6SN7's out there, but it was George (Zybar) who first brought up the TS round plates as being the king...although at the time we never really took it seriously. Well, fast forward a few months and we're all going to that place!! I guess for new tube rollers it seems like a lot of money, but it's almost a guaranteed lock. Put it this way: spend $60 a pair on 8-12 different sets of 6CG7's (let alone 6SN7's) and others..then add up the total costs. Yeah, the discovery is part of the fun, but not the best part. :D
Good points, all. Thanks Ken, Ted, David, George, Phil, et. al. Today's purchase was from John (Greece) - 1940's TS round plate NOS (they look perfect in the picture), for a touch over $300. And off we go!.... :)
Jim
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I would be interested in a group buy from Greece if anyone else is. I've got Raytheon VT 231's on the way and got pretty decent deal that I can probably unload easily. I agree it's better to do it right the first time, but I still want to find the bargain gem. I may be able to loan a pair of the Raytheons to someone that has the Tung Sol's. I know it's a forgone conclusion who the king is, but I really like hearing impressions and comparisons.
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All I can say to everyone here is THANKS :thankyou:! Kudos especially to Ted, George, Phil, and Rydenfan - your enthusiasm is contagious. I'm sure there are others on this thread that I owe thanks to, but these guys are the ones I can recall at the moment as experimenting the most and generously sharing their findings/opinions.
I have been following this thread for awhile and have been clandestinely purchasing the EML, octal adapters, and Tung Sol round plates (I needed to be clandestine/quick before ya'll bought everything up :lol:). The last parts were the octal adapters and they arrived yesterday. This combo has it ALL - tone, presence, sound stage, and detail - in SPADES! This "holy grail" transporter tube combo has really pushed my system to another level - it has never sounded so musical ("live" is the best way to describe it) and engaging. For anyone balking at the price, forget about it and JUST DO IT (really, what is $800 - current economy notwithstanding - in tubes and adapters compared to what you have in the modded transporter and possibly your spare tubes and/or cables?).
FWIW, I don't have the "full monty" Modwright transporter - I had my transporter modded a little over a year ago and used the stock tubes up until a few months ago when I got some RCA clear tops based on the pre-EML posts in this thread. The clear tops were an improvement and the EML was a huge leap forward, but the octal adapters and Tung Sol round plates pushed it way over the top. I also don't have any tubes in the rest of my system, which consists of a PS Audio GCC integrated amp, Duevel Bella Luna Diamante omni-directional speakers, and some other sources (yes, it is difficult to confess on a modwright transporter thread :oops:, but I have a Rega P9/Dynavector XX-2/PS Audio GCPH vinyl rig too).
Again, I sincerely appreciate the "research" and "boundary pushing" by everyone here - you guys made it simple by being so willing to share your experiments, experiences, and opinions. I also do not consider myself a "tube roller" or system tweaker, although I did buy the Herbie's Tube dampers based on what I read here (I also have a thing for titanium). I am more of a "set and enjoy" kind of person and I know that I will be VERY happy for a long time with the current combo. Finally, sincere thanks are owed to George at tubesusa and Wayne at Bolder - both were consummate professionals in my dealings with them.
Mark
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Glad you like the EML/6SN7's Mark and thanks for the feedback, this combination really makes the TP something special. I was asked recently about the Hyper-Drive mod and checked the notes I made at the time I first heard it with my current perception, they correlated. When you get the chance the Hyper-Drive is well worth the round trip to Amboy and back.
Rolling tubes has been an interesting, and sometimes costly journey, with the EML/6SN7 has the journey ended? Whatever the answer it's a great place to stop and enjoy the music.
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It is my pleasure to provide some small input to this thread and to hopefully help others by sharing my experiences.
I know I have certainly learned far more from this 46 page thread than I have contributed...so a big THANK YOU to everybody who has posted and shared their thoughts along the way.
George
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As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).
Thank You! :thumb:
OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.
Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!! :hyper:
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This thread, and the members that drive it, is certainly a bright spot for me in these otherwise troubling times, so thanks to all of you.
I do find it fascinating that this current tube compliment seems to be a pretty universal combination. Amazing with all the different ears, tastes, systems, etc. that this would be the case. Factor in the fact that it is a current production rectifier and octal pinned signal tubes with adapters and it just becomes all the more interesting. It really is pretty incredible. I guess I will have to go back to my HW GZ37 just to be different :wink:
-
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).
Thank You! :thumb:
OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.
Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!! :hyper:
Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!
-
Guys:
Thanks! :thumb: I received my ModWright Transporter last April and the decision I made to purchase was due to this thread. When you look back it was President Ted and Vice President David that really got the tubes rolling. :lol: Most of the rest of us joined-in and keep feeding this thing. It has been an exiting, fun-filled 11 months and I do really appreciate all of the knowledge I have gained from everyone here. However, I suspect the journey is not complete yet. :lol:
With the EML Rectifier we have found a currently produced, high quality, tube. The supply is being replenished allowing us to buy more to meet our needs - unlike with the NOS tubes. I think one of our challenges could be to find a high quality signal tube produced today that meets or exceeds the sound produced by the Tung Sol Round Plates. Anybody got any ideas?
Thanks again guys!
Ken
-
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).
Thank You! :thumb:
OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.
Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!! :hyper:
Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!
Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys, Mullard/Brimar Ec333, etc...all great tubes, but none will dethrone the Round Plates. There is a reason they are the king in the 6SN7 world (not just for the TP). That being said, I am sure that some people will find a different combination more to their liking...which is absolutely cool. :thumb:
Personally, I think the Redbase 5692's are the most overrated and overpriced tubes out of the 6SN7 family. While they do have a lush mid-range (way too lush to my ears), they are not very linear or strong at the frequency extremes. This basically makes them a mid-range tube for those that like that particular sound. For anybody out there that hasn't heard the Redbase 5692's, my advice is to try to borrow before buying. I just don't think it will work out for most Modwright customers.
George
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Guys:
Thanks! :thumb: I received my ModWright Transporter last April and the decision I made to purchase was due to this thread. When you look back it was President Ted and Vice President David that really got the tubes rolling. :lol: Most of the rest of us joined-in and keep feeding this thing. It has been an exiting, fun-filled 11 months and I do really appreciate all of the knowledge I have gained from everyone here. However, I suspect the journey is not complete yet. :lol:
With the EML Rectifier we have found a currently produced, high quality, tube. The supply is being replenished allowing us to buy more to meet our needs - unlike with the NOS tubes. I think one of our challenges could be to find a high quality signal tube produced today that meets or exceeds the sound produced by the Tung Sol Round Plates. Anybody got any ideas?
Thanks again guys!
Ken
Ken,
Unfortunately, I know of no current production 6SN7 that comes close to rivaling the Round Plates. This is based on personal experience and combing the internet.
Trust me, I don't want to spend the big bucks that the Round Plates command. aa
George
-
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).
Thank You! :thumb:
OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.
Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!! :hyper:
Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!
Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys, Mullard/Brimar Ec333, etc...all great tubes, but none will dethrone the Round Plates. There is a reason they are the king in the 6SN7 world (not just for the TP). That being said, I am sure that some people will find a different combination more to their liking...which is absolutely cool. :thumb:
For me :
#1 Mullard CV2821 (ECC33 military version)
#2 Mullard ECC33
#3 GEC B65
Those 3 tubes are WAY above any other 6SN7
Then comes the Sylvania 6SN7W, Rayhteon VT231 or TS Round plates.
-
As unofficial leader of this rolling party I echo Phil and George, and speak for David, Ken, John, Rob, Wayne and the rest of us that we are so proud that this wonderful thread has been one of the most popular on the entire Audio Circle in the past 12 months, and has provided a tremendous amount of knowledge, energy, humor, perspective and just good ole' sharing. And I can't even think of one post that was mean-spirited or over the top in any way (can't be said for many threads, that's for sure).
Thank You! :thumb:
OK...now that we've found some really well-tested combos, and have come to an agreement that the EML/Tung Sol 6SN7 round/oval plate seems to be a clear winner, whether you've upgraded to the hypermod or not, let's continue to give feedback as these combos break in and bring us new musical enjoyment. We'd especially love to hear from those new MW TP owners who've jumped in with all these changes recently, and give us some perspective on what your favorite stuff sounds like with the new MW TP and tubes.
Me, I get my round plates this week, along with the rare Russian military 6H8C's with the five vertical round holes, who's more available rectangular-hole cousin I praised earlier for being incredibly detailed and solid state-like (not a bad thing, just a very far end of the spectrum thing). That should be fun. But the round plates...oh, the round plates....I had George's pair in for demo, and clearly remember their wide detailed yet organic sound, but...i can't wait for my own!! :hyper:
Yeah I'm luving my full monty MTWP with EML, gotta scramble for those adaptors asap. My TS round plates (after 50 plus years of being unused) are lonely to say the least and its about freakin time they sing like I'm dreaming they only can! Cant wait to hear about the 5 hole Russians, vs American TS rounds. Will it be a bigtime fight Ala Brock Lesnar vs Fedor Emelianenko (for all you UFC fans ) or will it be another overated knockout.
No one has yet to mention the Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys. Someone did mention the British Mullard/Brimar Ec333(3chk) and mentioned they liked them alot although if i recall they did not test them in a MWTP as of yet.
So although we got a Heavyweight champ, its not UNANIMOUS yet!
Redbase 5692s, Sylvania Bad Boys, Mullard/Brimar Ec333, etc...all great tubes, but none will dethrone the Round Plates. There is a reason they are the king in the 6SN7 world (not just for the TP). That being said, I am sure that some people will find a different combination more to their liking...which is absolutely cool. :thumb:
For me :
#1 Mullard CV2821 (ECC33 military version)
#2 Mullard ECC33
#3 GEC B65
Those 3 tubes are WAY above any other 6SN7
Then comes the Sylvania 6SN7W, Rayhteon VT231 or TS Round plates.
Hi ndelisons(spchk)
Have you tested any of your top 3 in the MWTP? I also found others who lay the same claim as you. I will paste another quote from another 6SN7 user:
SONIC COMMENTS ON CV1988 versus CV181:
-------------------------------------
"The ECC32/CV181 is my favorite. The music becomes alive, with more dynamics
and realism. Its like the band moved into my living room. My wife liked the
CV1988 for vocals, it's so smooth, detailed, transparent, and fills the room
with sound from floor to ceiling, wall to wall. Simply put, both tubes are
excellent and way better than anything I've heard. Of course both tubes are
still breaking-in so I expect them to only get better"
Love to hear comments from actual MWTP owners w/octal adaptors and preferably a EML rectifier who have tested these tubes, and even better if anyone from first hand experiance can compare to the TS rounds. My octal adaptors will be here next week, so in a holding pattern but sooner or later I will get some top english versions and be able to crown my own CHAMP!
-
Update On The Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' CV181-Z, 6SN7GT
This tube looked a really exciting option to explore. After talking to Dan and Ian Grant (Grant Audio) it's been confirmed that the 20mA current limit of the tube makes it incompatible with the MW TP, in other words DO NOT use this tube as it will damage the TP and/or the tube.
Ian was very helpful with this and hopefully he can introduce us to new options in the future.
-
Hello All!
Thank you all for your email and interest in the EML rectifiers. We are currently waiting on a new production run. I'm figuring on about a month before the next wave of these tubes land here in the USA. I have taken note with all of your requests, and I'll be happy to contact all of you when I take delivery. Thanks for your patience!
Best,
George
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Thanks George. Would you care to comment on any signal tubes that you may offer as replacements for the 6SN7, or 6CG7?
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You folks are just starting to scratch the surface with signal tubes for the transporter. In the spirit of full disclosure, I do not own a Modwright transporter, but must admit that I find it intriguing. One tube that I would be looking to try would be a 6C8-G(amplification factor of 36). This is similar to a 6SN7(amplification factor of 20) with a grid cap. It's a medium mu triode. You would need an adapter for this application, but I'm sure the good folks at Bolder could help you out there. It uses a octal socket. Pay special attention towards the space needed for the grid lead so that it may pass through the opening of the top plate before taking the plunge.These NOS tubes are cheap and plentiful. Again, this is one option for those who like to roll! :wink:
Best,
George
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George,
Do you mean it would need a DIFFERENT octal socket than what we use today for 6SN7 TP rolling? In what way different? Thanks
Ted
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Another adapter, just shoot me now :o :uzi:
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Do you mean it would need a DIFFERENT octal socket than what we use today for 6SN7 TP rolling? In what way different? Thanks
Would probably look a lot like this one with the wire lead for the grid cap of the 6C8G:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18601)
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Thanks to Phil and Dan I successfully surgically altered my Transporter lid (black). I increased the signal tube holes size to the 1 5/8" (similar to rectifier hole). Thanks to Phil for the loan of the Greenlee conduit punch and for the instructions and confidence to try this, and to Dan for some valuable advice (including making sure I taped the lid work area with clear packing tape to ward off scratches, etc as I lined up the punch for the new hole). NOTE: those of you unaware, Phil and my TP's were the earlier versions that had only 1" holes. Most of the rest of you are fine and the stock hole openings can accommodate Wayne's adapters, and likely the ones NickS is showing. However, once again, whether it's the early version or whatever, but my board layout precludes me from using anything but Wayne's nice tall and slender adapters. The Taiwanese ones shown here won't work for me; the MW caps are nestled right next to the socket and the girth of these shorter adapters would require major surgery (it's one thing to think about cosmetic surgery... :) ..another entirely to think about open heart!! )
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Do you mean it would need a DIFFERENT octal socket than what we use today for 6SN7 TP rolling? In what way different? Thanks
Would probably look a lot like this one with the wire lead for the grid cap of the 6C8G:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18601)
Nick, Thanks for highlighting these adapters. JG2 has been looking at them the last week or so and checking the compatibility with the TP - at this stage we don't have the green light to use them until the pin configuration has been confirmed. My recommendation would be for anyone to hold off until we have confirmation from the Modwright mother ship,
It looks like I'm the bearer of bad news the last few days, but I would prefer to play safe rather than be without my TP if it has to go to the ER in Amboy :(
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Thanks to Phil and Dan I successfully surgically altered my Transporter lid (black). I increased the signal tube holes size to the 1 5/8" (similar to rectifier hole). Thanks to Phil for the loan of the Greenlee conduit punch and for the instructions and confidence to try this, and to Dan for some valuable advice (including making sure I taped the lid work area with clear packing tape to ward off scratches, etc as I lined up the punch for the new hole). NOTE: those of you unaware, Phil and my TP's were the earlier versions that had only 1" holes. Most of the rest of you are fine and the stock hole openings can accommodate Wayne's adapters, and likely the ones NickS is showing. However, once again, whether it's the early version or whatever, but my board layout precludes me from using anything but Wayne's nice tall and slender adapters. The Taiwanese ones shown here won't work for me; the MW caps are nestled right next to the socket and the girth of these shorter adapters would require major surgery (it's one thing to think about cosmetic surgery... :) ..another entirely to think about open heart!! )
Ted, looks like we've passed TP modding phase one for beginners, we're on the path to become certified MW technicians - with the emphasis on certified :lol:
I have the Taiwanese adapters and Wayne's.
A few of us have tried the Taiwanese adapters and found that they brush against one or both of the capacitors next to the tube sockets, see photo:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=14592)
We've been able to resolve the problem by taking a Dremel and shaving off a little of the adapter. I understand that their is some tolerance in the position of the capacitors and the length of the 'legs', this tolerance will impact on how easy these adapters are to fit or not. Something to be aware of.
(Thanks to the photo owner for allowing me to use it without advance permission)
-
Any sonic differences between the Taiwanese adapters and Wayne's?
-
Any sonic differences between the Taiwanese adapters and Wayne's?
Greg, I don't expect to hear any differences but will be doing an AB comparison over the weekend and will post any findings.
Phil
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Do you mean it would need a DIFFERENT octal socket than what we use today for 6SN7 TP rolling? In what way different? Thanks
ted_b,
Hope that the image I posted was helpful in answering your question regarding differences in a prospective adapter for 6C8G tubes.
Congratulations on successfully getting the driver tube holes modified on your early MWTP!
I'm going to retire from further adapter posting as I have found contentment with the EML/TS round plates and don't wish to provoke unintended arousals.
Best,
Nick
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Any sonic differences between the Taiwanese adapters and Wayne's?
Greg, I don't expect to hear any differences but will be doing an AB comparison over the weekend and will post any findings.
Phil
Thanks Phil. Does 1-5/8" provide additional clearance for the 6SN7's? or the short adapter? My signal tube holes look to be about 1-3/8". So I'm guessing they would need to be enlarged also if I were to go with a more compact adapter... how wide are the tubes? and adapters? extra space for ventilation?
-Greg
-
Greg,
As I mentioned earlier, those holes are fine. They fit Wayne's adapters nicely, and the Taiwanese ones are actually fitted under the lid. Then the hole simply needs to be large enough for the full socket accessibility, which it is. You'll still have issues with the width of the adapter in relation to the MW cap, regardless of hole size.
-
Like Phil mentioned though, nothing a little grinding can't fix.
Thanks for going the extra mile to explore this option. :thumb:
-
Just purchased 3 NOS matched pairs of U.K made Brimar 1950's blk coated glass 6SN7s from a 30yr valve veteran who uses them himself and thinks they sound the best. Here is a quote regarding my question of how he liked the Tung Sol round plates in comparison. (bought 3 pairs b/c amp also requires a quad)
"
Hello Rob
I had them and the sound OK but lack dynamics and depth. I use the same valves as I showed you ..following many attempt to get a better sound even with ECC32. The thing is only one: 6SN7GT was the valve...then other variation did not work great because of the filament impedance. The Brimar had the best treatment for filament's impurity, the Tungsol are a bit more rough, smooth at times but seems they push too much. I do not like aggressive sound..I better have an amp that gives 12.5watts other then 13.5 watts that difference is most of times amplified but the input valve such as the 6SN7 and the quality of the Brimar is second to none
This is only one man's opinion until I actually get them in a week. I paid alot for the TS rounds so believe me Im not looking to bash here, just another roll'er searching for audio nirvana. I love a good heavyweight fight, so stay tuned! PS..They can't be bad, he offered me a money back guarantee if I don't like them, already like this guy alot.
-
Berto,
Have you heard your TS rounds yet? If so, this will be great. I'd LOVE for you to find an inexpensive alternative, or one that does others things as well as the TS round does it's thing. It's all about pushing the envelope for better and better sound. As David pointed out, logically there is almost no way the EML/TS round plate is the best of the best for all ears/rooms/systems/tastes.
-
Thanks to the generosity of a friend, I will have the EML tube in my possession next week to try in my system with the Round Plates.
I will be comparing the EML to the BEL GZ34 that is currently being used.
George
-
Berto,
Have you heard your TS rounds yet? If so, this will be great. I'd LOVE for you to find an inexpensive alternative, or one that does others things as well as the TS round does it's thing. It's all about pushing the envelope for better and better sound. As David pointed out, logically there is almost no way the EML/TS round plate is the best of the best for all ears/rooms/systems/tastes.
No I have not, but hey they have waited over 50years for my octal adaptors, what's another week :icon_lol:
Getting my adaptors no later then next Friday as promised, and only have a pair of TS rounds(since so expensive) so cannot even vouch for them in my amp (needs quad).
Not sure what the shipping time from UK to NY is but no rush since that will give me time to roll the TS rounds and the RCA VT-231's. I really love the 1940s RCA-VT-231's Grey Glass in my Amp, so when package does arrive I will also be anxious to see what the 50s Brimar can do, as I was told these things really SING :o
I was told there were only a few thousand 50s coated long envelope Brimar 6SN7s even made, seems that way since I've been combin the net searchin high and low, and only found CV1988s from 70s diff construction and were told not as good.
Not sure how good I'm at describing sounds variations but I will do my best. When the time comes.
I agree with David 100%. to each is own, you tailor your own system ,to how your own ear's percieve it to sound best!
-
:cry: :cry: When I went to listen to music this evening, my EML mesh 5u4 was dead...it was cold... no filament light....its back to the metal base GZ34 :cry: :cry:
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:cry: :cry: When I went to listen to music this evening, my EML mesh 5u4 was dead...it was cold... no filament light....its back to the metal base GZ34 :cry: :cry:
WOW! That sucks! How long have you had it? I believe they have a warranty.
-
Its about a month old. George answered my email pretty quickly and said to send it back to him for replacement. :thumb:
-
Great news :thumb: :thumb:
-
:cry: :cry: When I went to listen to music this evening, my EML mesh 5u4 was dead...it was cold... no filament light....its back to the metal base GZ34 :cry: :cry:
Sorry to hear that your EML failed Mike, looks like you are well taken care of in terms of getting it resolved. I find the 'audition by subtraction' route can sometimes be a useful approach, when you roll a new tube you immediately hear the major differences but it's often the more extended listening that determines if you can live with the tube or not. So, even though it's no consolation, it will be interesting to have the mb back in and compare with the EML.
The 12 months/2000 hour guarantee is another benefit with buying a new product like this, it would have been a different issue with a NOS or used tube.
http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/guarantee/conditions.htm
-
I was just cautioned by the Emission Labs distributor, that the tube does NOT like to see a first capacitor value of > 33uf. Our early designs, before the 'Hyper-Drive' upgrade, used a pair of 100uf caps in series = 50uf net capacitance. In this case, the EML tube MAY be stressed. I mention this as a caution to all who are using this tube. It is an expensive tube and I want you to all be aware.
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Hi Dan,
Just to be clear..... are you saying that the EML tube is fine for use after the Hyper-Drive mod, but may be stressed if you don't have the mod....?
Mark
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I was under the impression this tube was fine to use. Perhaps it is because I have the hyper mod??
Gotta love technology :thumb: posting from my iphone from a yankees spring training game
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Hello All!
I just got off the phone with Dan from Modwright. We discussed the suitability of the EML 5U4G rectifier with the Modwright products. I am advising all who have purchased this tube recently to contact Dan whether their units are able to use these tubes. As Dan as stated, there have been various iterations of the transporter sporting different capacitor values. Some early designs(100uF for example) are clearly way outside the desired circle of the EML operating points. A value beyond the recommended stated value from Emission Labs will cause the warranty to be null and void. We are obviously concerned about anyone taking the financial "plunge" when purchasing one (or more) of these tubes. Dan is in the position to facilitate any upgrade for those choosing to use this tube in the event that there current topology is not in line with these specific parameters. Don't wait until you have a defective tube to address this issue. We know the tube makes for a great presentation with the transporter. However, if it won't last, it doesn't do any of us any good.
Best Regards,
George
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Okay, I'm confused. :scratch: Say we had an early model TP, and have sent it in for the platinum/turbo/hyper-drive mods. Would it now be suitable to use with the EML? Or to rephrase the question: If we have had the "Hyper-Drive" installed (regardless of the initial "truth" mod) are we cleared for take off with the EML?
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Dan (or others), just wondering if the EML 5U4G is compatible with the SWL 9.0 Signature (aside from being too tall)??
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Okay, I'm confused. :scratch: Say we had an early model TP, and have sent it in for the platinum/turbo/hyper-drive mods. Would it now be suitable to use with the EML? Or to rephrase the question: If we have had the "Hyper-Drive" installed (regardless of the initial "truth" mod) are we cleared for take off with the EML?
Same boat here, and ready to pull the trigger on the EML. David, this is your situation isn't it? Like us you got the platinum/bybee/turbo ($500) mod after having the original MWTP, and it works fine with the EML, correct? Hopefully the answer is that the mod to existing units includes the change in cap values...
Jim
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Dan (or others), just wondering if the EML 5U4G is compatible with the SWL 9.0 Signature (aside from being too tall)??
I can't answer your question but I've been running the EML in my SWLP with great results. All the attributes of the EML carry over to the preamp as well. It seems more relaxed and effortless as well. I'm waiting on the same question though to be safe.
You'll need to cut a hole around 3" to accommodate and allow ventilation. It's really worth it though assuming we have the OK.
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As there are a few small but electrically relevant iterations of the MW TP around, let's let Dan investigate and get back to us. FYI: I sent him an email about the EML back about 30 days ago. The EML was glowing wayyyy brighter than the EML website pic, (hence calling it my bug zapper) and I was concerned about the possibility of us overdriving it. I included pictures and the EML spec sheet. He responded then with some electrical terms I was unsure of, but netted it out that "the max voltage and current are not exceeded". Keep in mind, he was likely only referring to mine, which although a very early (as in first) iteration, it was also the first of the hypermods too. I was unaware, at that time, that the hypermods might be a gating factor.
I sent him another email today asking to give us further clarification, now that he has more info. Stay tuned.
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Okay, I'm confused. :scratch: Say we had an early model TP, and have sent it in for the platinum/turbo/hyper-drive mods. Would it now be suitable to use with the EML? Or to rephrase the question: If we have had the "Hyper-Drive" installed (regardless of the initial "truth" mod) are we cleared for take off with the EML?
Same boat here, and ready to pull the trigger on the EML. David, this is your situation isn't it? Like us you got the platinum/bybee/turbo ($500) mod after having the original MWTP, and it works fine with the EML, correct? Hopefully the answer is that the mod to existing units includes the change in cap values...
Jim
My interpretation is that with the Hyper-Drive mod the TP operates within the safe limits of the EML, so it is fine to use and covered by the gurantee.
Without the Hyper-Drive mod the TP operates just outside the safe limits of the EML and may cause failure, George is stating that if this happens then the guarantee does not apply.
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As there are a few small but electrically relevant iterations of the MW TP around, let's let Dan investigate and get back to us. FYI: I sent him an email about the EML back about 30 days ago. The EML was glowing wayyyy brighter than the EML website pic, (hence calling it my bug zapper) and I was concerned about the possibility of us overdriving it. I included pictures and the EML spec sheet. He responded then with some electrical terms I was unsure of, but netted it out that "the max voltage and current are not exceeded". Keep in mind, he was likely only referring to mine, which although a very early (as in first) iteration, it was also the first of the hypermods too. I was unaware, at that time, that the hypermods might be a gating factor.
I sent him another email today asking to give us further clarification, now that he has more info. Stay tuned.
I was typing my interpretation while you were posting Ted, for the sake of caution it's probably wiser to have Dan clarify as you suggest.
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As Dan as stated, there have been various iterations of the transporter sporting different capacitor values. Some early designs(100uF for example) are clearly way outside the desired circle of the EML operating points. A value beyond the recommended stated value from Emission Labs will cause the warranty to be null and void.
As someone who recently purchased an EML, hasn't gone down the hyper-mod route, and having an "early" unit (I got mine in January 2008) , this situation SUCKS :finger:. Sorry to ruin the general "feel good" nature of this thread. I have contacted Dan to see what he says... until then, my MW TP is OUT OF COMISSION :bawl: :banghead:
While not a happy camper at the moment, I would like to thank: (1) Mike for alerting us to his problem and (2) either Dan or George for contacting one another to discuss compatibility issues.
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I think your post is a little overly harsh and kind of out of line. The Modwright Transporter is not solely defined by the EML rectifier, there are still many other great tube options. Most of us on this thread are really on the cutting edge of tube rolling and there is bound to be some trial and error. I suggest you take a deep breath, throw in a different tube, and enjoy some music.
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As Dan as stated, there have been various iterations of the transporter sporting different capacitor values. Some early designs(100uF for example) are clearly way outside the desired circle of the EML operating points. A value beyond the recommended stated value from Emission Labs will cause the warranty to be null and void.
As someone who recently purchased an EML, hasn't gone down the hyper-mod route, and having an "early" unit (I got mine in January 2008) , this situation SUCKS :finger:. Sorry to ruin the general "feel good" nature of this thread. I have contacted Dan to see what he says... until then, my MW TP is OUT OF COMISSION :bawl: :banghead:
While not a happy camper at the moment, I would like to thank: (1) Mike for alerting us to his problem and (2) either Dan or George for contacting one another to discuss compatibility issues.
Why are you out of commission?
There are tons of rectifiers out there that work very well in the Modwright TP.
George
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As Dan as stated, there have been various iterations of the transporter sporting different capacitor values. Some early designs(100uF for example) are clearly way outside the desired circle of the EML operating points. A value beyond the recommended stated value from Emission Labs will cause the warranty to be null and void.
As someone who recently purchased an EML, hasn't gone down the hyper-mod route, and having an "early" unit (I got mine in January 2008) , this situation SUCKS :finger:. Sorry to ruin the general "feel good" nature of this thread. I have contacted Dan to see what he says... until then, my MW TP is OUT OF COMISSION :bawl: :banghead:
While not a happy camper at the moment, I would like to thank: (1) Mike for alerting us to his problem and (2) either Dan or George for contacting one another to discuss compatibility issues.
I can truly understand your frustration and reaction, after living with the EML it's tough having to go back to other rectifier tubes. I'm confident that this will get resolved quickly.
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Saying my MW TP is of commission was a poor choice of words... I'd had a couple to drink when I read George's and Dan's "latest news" last night, so my apologies if I came across too harsh.
I'll try again: the EML is definitely out of commission and I hope my use of this tube in an early non-hypermodded MW TP doesn't result in premature tube failure that isn't covered under warranty, which clearly would suck. Furthermore, the only clear "solution" at this time is the hypermod, which means the hassle of sending the TP back to Dan and the outlay of another 5 benjamins plus shipping. Thus, it is either spend another $500-600 on the hypermod or not be able to use a recent $235 tube purchase that sounds glorious - a "stalemate" that I submit also sucks. I realize that you guys sing the praises of the hypermod, so perhaps going down that path isn't all bad, but I'd prefer to not have to spend the money at the moment to get the EML to be compatible. Hopefully, Dan will come up with a less expensive fix.
Rant off - I'm going to listen to some music!
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Gang,
My recommendation is to pull the EML from ALL MW TP versions right now, until further notice. We don't know if the hypermod is a gating factor or not, or that every hypermod is the same. Although George Lenz might feel bad about throwing a wet blanket over our EML love affair, it was quite appropriate to bring this warranty issue to our immediate attention. And we don't want to start a rumor or inference that the hypermod is a mandatory upgrade!
Dan will let us know what iterations are safe and what ones aren't. We do know that some versions used caps that are outside the safe area for the EML warranty, but don't know what that means to us individually. In the meantime, protect your investment and pull the tube.
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Mine was pulled last night... while I haven't heard from Dan as to whether my early non-hypermod MW TP has proper operating parameters for the EML, I also sent an e-mail to George thanking him for bringing this to Dan's attention (at least that is the way it appeared to have happened to me) and asking if operating outside acceptable parameters for a short while (15 days) would damage the tube and what it would do to the warranty if still operating. Since others may be asking the same questions, here is his reply:
There is a very good chance that this tube will continue to work going forward. It is wise of you to keep this tube on the sidelines until Dan can give you a de-facto report on what his advice is.
Regarding the warranty. The warranty is specific in this case, and EML states that if the tube is operated outside of it's parameters, the tube will not be covered. Clearly, the values with the early capacitors go waaay beyond what's reasonable here. I'm on my third year with my tube . It's being used in a 2A3 with a 4uF cap. From my conversations with Dan, he will address the needs of the end users who want to use this tube in their transporter. He even says that he's looking forward to perhaps using some of these tubes in future designs. I will be sending one to him when the next shipment arrives. As of now, there is a temporary moratorium on the sale of these tubes until we can get some closure. Sorry that you have to revert back to the old one for the short term, but an ounce of protection..yada, yada, yada. You get the point. Thanks for the email!
Upside possibility: my MW TP has a proper cap and didn't void the EML warranty... all is good.
Downside possibilities: my MW TP has an improper cap for the EML and I own a possibly damaged but certainly out-of-warranty EML, which, if I want to use, will likely require a minimum of a trip back to Dan to rectify at unknown $$.
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Just an FYI....listened to some music tonight sans EML. :? And guess what? :o Those incredible Tung Sol round plates are like Lebron, or Kobe or Michael.....they make everything around them perform better. I threw in a US Sylvania 5U4G bottle shaped recitfier in the MW TP and it sounds great! Now, I'm not saying I will not miss my EML during this hiatus, but boy did my system sound great tonight (and I would have thought it was gonna be problematic as I also removed a lot of furniture, traps and equipment from the back third of my room today, behind the listening position..the riser project begins this week.). So, those of you who have the pleasure of rolling some good signal tubes, especially the octals....throw in a nice rectifier and fire it up. You'll be surprised how much you like it. :D
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After months of contented EMLing, I stuck in my next fave down for the weekend, a Blackburn GZ37. Its a bit like playing table tennis with a book, "proper" football with trainers (sneakers) or silicone.... sure you can do it.... but its just not quite right somehow....?
Sorry if I offended any table tennis fans! :nono:
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After months of contented EMLing, I stuck in my next fave down for the weekend, a Blackburn GZ37. Its a bit like playing table tennis with a book, "proper" football with trainers (sneakers) or silicone.... sure you can do it.... but its just not quite right somehow....?
Sorry if I offended any table tennis fans! :nono:
Can only imagine whats it like compared to that stock GE rectifier (my only other one and a HUGE step backwards). Got a quick reply from Dan:
"I will verify with my tech, but provided that it has 22uf caps and not 100uf caps in a key location in the power supply, then it is fine. I will verify and get back with you."
I'm hoping at a month old I got the right caps, have zero interest in rolling rectifiers right now, will surely follow up w/Dan if I don't get a email before I go home tonite.
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Just an FYI....listened to some music tonight sans EML. :? And guess what? :o Those incredible Tung Sol round plates are like Lebron, or Kobe or Michael.....they make everything around them perform better. I threw in a US Sylvania 5U4G bottle shaped recitfier in the MW TP and it sounds great! Now, I'm not saying I will not miss my EML during this hiatus, but boy did my system sound great tonight (and I would have thought it was gonna be problematic as I also removed a lot of furniture, traps and equipment from the back third of my room today, behind the listening position..the riser project begins this week.). So, those of you who have the pleasure of rolling some good signal tubes, especially the octals....throw in a nice rectifier and fire it up. You'll be surprised how much you like it. :D
Heck, mine sounds killer with the BEL GZ34 and I don't even the Platinum or Hyper Mod yet.
George
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Hi guys, sorry for the brief reply and lack of follow up.
My tech has just confirmed with me that all 'Hyper-Drive' upgrades that have been performed in the last 60-days are certainly equipped with the 22uf caps.
For now: Please stop using the EML tube until you can verify that your unit has the 22uf caps and not the 100uf caps installed. All new and current Hyperdrive Upgrades that have been done, have the 22uf caps. Some of the early Hyperdrive mods may be questionable and we need to determine this. If you HAVE NOT had this upgrade done, then I can GUARANTEE YOU that your unit has 100uf caps and is not suitable with the EML tube as it is.
First of all, I will take a picture of a unit with the right size caps, with lid on, so that there is an easy way to determine if your unit is viable with the EML tube or not.
Secondly, if you want to use the EML tube, and I understand that it is a great tube, you may either:
* Have the Hyperdrive Upgrades done by us.
* Or, for parts and labor ($75/hr shop rate) + shipping both ways, we will be sure that the caps are replaced and the unit suitable for use with the EML tube.
AGAIN: IF YOU ARE UNSURE, PLEASE STOP USING THE EML TUBE UNTIL THE STATUS OF YOUR UNIT CAN BE VERIFIED.
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Dan,
What about the SWL 9.0 Signature. Would the EML be compatible?
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Dan,
What about the SWL 9.0 Signature. Would the EML be compatible?
I just spoke with Dan. All other MW products (other than a TP with 100uf caps) can handle the EML just fine.
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THE OFFICIAL "HOW TO TELL IF YOUR MW TP IS OK FOR USING AN EML RECTIFIER"
FRONT OF TP
(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12003/MWTP_PS_cap.jpg)
REAR OF TP
Here is full view, showing signal tubes to the left (i.e rear of TP perspective)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12003/mwtplargeview.jpg)
1) Power down you tube section and remove the rectifier, exposing the rectifier socket area;
2) From the perspective of the front of the Transporter, look into the hole and see the capacitor directly to the left (opposite direction from signal tubes). If your area is well lit, or you use a magnifying glass and/or flashlight you should be able to see the cap value. A 100uf cap is large, like in the picture. A 22uf cap is more like the size of capacitor "D" in the picture.
Although the pics above are not of my TP, nonetheless mine is a 100uf (even though I had a hypermod done, as you all know). So don't assume anything. Dan and John didn't go to 22uf until they realized later that, with the better voltage regulation of the hypermods they didn't need to stay with the 100uf's in series (i.e 2 of them). Instead they went to two (2) 22uf cap values.
As per Dan's message, if you have large 100uf's, cease and desist using the EML rectifier (any others we've discussed and rolled are fine). A hypermod or cap change (i.e trip back to Amboy) is the solution, assuming you want to use the EML rectifier.
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22 uf baby :thumb:
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THE OFFICIAL "HOW TO TELL IF YOUR MW TP IS OK FOR USING AN EML RECTIFIER"
FRONT OF TP
(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12003/MWTP_PS_cap.jpg)
REAR OF TP
Here is full view, showing signal tubes to the left (i.e rear of TP perspective)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12003/mwtplargeview.jpg)
1) Power down you tube section and remove the rectifier, exposing the rectifier socket area;
2) From the perspective of the front of the Transporter, look into the hole and see the capacitor directly to the left (opposite direction from signal tubes). If your area is well lit, or you use a magnifying glass and/or flashlight you should be able to see the cap value. A 100uf cap is large, like in the picture. A 22uf cap is more like the size of capacitor "D" in the picture.
Although the pics above are not of my TP, nonetheless mine is a 100uf (even though I had a hypermod done, as you all know). So don't assume anything. Dan and John didn't go to 22uf until they realized later that, with the better voltage regulation of the hypermods they didn't need to stay with the 100uf's in series (i.e 2 of them). Instead they went to two (2) 22uf cap values.
As per Dan's message, if you have large 100uf's, cease and desist using the EML rectifier (any others we've discussed and rolled are fine). A hypermod or cap change (i.e trip back to Amboy) is the solution, assuming you want to use the EML rectifier.
Thanks Ted.
Just FYI on my experience... I pulled my rectifier tube, and using a flashlight (looking through the rectifier hole with the cover on, I could easily see the "B" capacitor in your diagram. However, given the way the cap was seated, I could not see the capacitor value (the cap value marking was facing away from me - to the left from the perspective of the front of the TP). Luckily, with the flashlight, I could actually see a part of the "E" capacitor in your picture/diagram. This one had the value facing my direction, and I was able to see the 22uF. :thumb:
So, just to note that might take some peering around in there on the B and E cans to find the value marking...
Jim
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Mine is also the same, with B value not visible but a mark of 'H0652'. However, the E cap (both marked C7 on the board) was visible at 22uf.
My Hyper Drive was installed the week of Thanksgiving.
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Congrat to Jim, Jerry and David. Phil and I are SOL. :(
And yes, "B" and "E" are twins, so if you can see the values on "E" better, so be it (pun intended). :)
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just checked mine and it's the 100uf version ;( At least the Mullard GZ37(CV378) & RCA cleartop version still sounds very good ;-)
I'm wondering if the guys that have the 100uf version like myself have actually heard what the EML is supposed to sound like - isn't the EML being over biased?? In my past experience with tube amps I can always tell when the tubes are a bit over biased - things get a bit edgy and energetic. The EML sounded really nice but it was glowing a bit, ehhehe..
any comments?
thanks
Tony
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Looks like I got a green light for the EML with 22uF(s) mine were very hard to see but by gently moving a wire I was able to make out the 22 on the "E" cap. But I still have to wait a month for George to get them back in stock. :thumb:
On a side note I can't help but wonder how much we are bidding against eachother on eBay, forcing a higher price for some of these tubes. I was bidding on a couple of pairs of signal tubes and it got tooth and nail in the last minutes, I didn't win. No worries. I am interested in going the 6SN7 route, but the TS round plates are ridiculously expensive. Somebody mentioned earlier about the possibility of setting up a group buy with the Greek seller... If there is some interest in getting back-ups or for guys like me that still haven't gone down that road yet but would like to... It might be worth checking out. I have no clue how to organize something like that but would be interested in participating.
Cheers-
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I'm wondering if the guys that have the 100uf version like myself have actually heard what the EML is supposed to sound like - isn't the EML being over biased?? In my past experience with tube amps I can always tell when the tubes are a bit over biased - things get a bit edgy and energetic. The EML sounded really nice but it was glowing a bit, ehhehe..
any comments?
thanks
Tony
no comments on this?? :scratch: :scratch:
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No one has had his/her 100uf TP fixed yet, so we don't know if we're hearing stress. I don't think over-biasing is what is happening here; it's just outside safe capacitance ranges. Dunno, really, but since we've only heard the EML in our own TP's it's tough to say. Maybe Dan can comment.
Based on what I'm hearing now, with the TS round plates, I am firmly in the camp of the octals making a bigger difference than the EML, although clearly the combo is additive. I may borrow an EML from another member and try the dual ones in the PS 36.5 during our forced hiatus.
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thanks Ted ;)
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When the messages about the caps were posted I had already left home and therefore have to deal with the uncertainty until I return home (reminds me of being a kid and wanting to know what was in the package under the Christmas Tree). Anyway, regardless of what caps are in my Transporter I really appreciate the posts by Ted and Dan to clarify this issue. Like all of you I really don't want to blow a $235.00 tube!
Ken
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Based on what I'm hearing now, with the TS round plates, I am firmly in the camp of the octals making a bigger difference than the EML, although clearly the combo is additive. I may borrow an EML from another member and try the dual ones in the PS 36.5 during our forced hiatus.
As I have said before, I fully agree with this as well. The Tung Sols have far more impact on my system than the Rectifiers.
You are welcome to borrow my EML anytime :D
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I'd be in for 4 in a group buy on the TS round plates...
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Regardless of whether the rectifier or signal tubes has a larger impact on the sound, I find it interesting that people don't seem to have too much of a problem with shelling out $200+ for a single EML rectifier tube, but are hesitant to buy a pair of Tung Sol Round Plates for $320-450.
While I know that the Round Plates cost more in actual dollars, they have an established price in the market and are potentially going up in value. If you were to try the Round Plates and not feel that they are worth that level of investment, you should be able to pretty much get your money back, or if you hold on to them, maybe even make some money down the road. Also, I believe there is a much larger potential market for the Round Plates vs. the EML tube.
In no way am I trying to put down the EML tube, nor do I have any financial interests associated with the Round Plates. Just simply throwing out a few thoughts.
George
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Regardless of whether the rectifier or signal tubes has a larger impact on the sound, I find it interesting that people don't seem to have too much of a problem with shelling out $200+ for a single EML rectifier tube, but are hesitant to buy a pair of Tung Sol Round Plates for $320-450.
While I know that the Round Plates cost more in actual dollars, they have an established price in the market and are potentially going up in value. If you were to try the Round Plates and not feel that they are worth that level of investment, you should be able to pretty much get your money back, or if you hold on to them, maybe even make some money down the road. Also, I believe there is a much larger potential market for the Round Plates vs. the EML tube.
In no way am I trying to put down the EML tube, nor do I have any financial interests associated with the Round Plates. Just simply throwing out a few thoughts.
George
But don't rectifiers last significantly longer than signal tubes? At least that's what I thought. :scratch:
Rob
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I was just composing a post that asked a similar question to George...
I've been going through the thread a bit, but checking all 49 pages is a daunting task. So forgive me if this has been covered: Has anyone tried the EML 274A/B tube? How about the Svet 5U3C? I've tried a few NOS Mullard 5AR4's and found it just softens everything out a bit too much for my taste (with RCA 6CG7 cleartops). TungSol 5u4g big bottle (mid 50's I think) is currently in, but I think I preferred the RCA 5u4G. I'm going to leave it in there for a while and go back. There are so many affordable (read: available) rectifiers out there - it's interesting that everyone is so drawn to the most expensive (read: exclusive, scarce) variants. Has anyone done any blind testing (with the help of a friend) to see if their preference held up? I do know how significant a difference an input tube or a driver tube can make, but my own experiences with rectifiers (mostly in amplifiers) does not seem to reflect the , "....my god, it's like having a brand new component..." epiphany that I'm reminded of when reading folks experiences with the EML tube. I'm open to the possibility of change, certainly, and I know they certainly can and do make a difference. But for the price of a single EML you can get perhaps 8 tungsol variants or other, more readily available NOS...is it really THAT much better than all of them?
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anyone know if the 5r4gy rectifier can be used in the Transporter?
thanks
Tony
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anyone know if the 5r4gy rectifier can be used in the Transporter?
thanks
Tony
Tony, based on the recent issues with the Shuguang 6SN7 tubes, and the EML 5U4G, I would play safe and get the green light from Dan before trying anything different.
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anyone know if the 5r4gy rectifier can be used in the Transporter?
thanks
Tony
Tony, based on the recent issues with the Shuguang 6SN7 tubes, and the EML 5U4G, I would play safe and get the green light from Dan before trying anything different.
good idea :D
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But don't rectifiers last significantly longer than signal tubes? At least that's what I thought. :scratch:
Rob
I thought signal tubes can go for 10,000+ hours. How long is the rectifier supposed to last?
George
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I was just composing a post that asked a similar question to George...
I've been going through the thread a bit, but checking all 49 pages is a daunting task. So forgive me if this has been covered: Has anyone tried the EML 274A/B tube? How about the Svet 5U3C? I've tried a few NOS Mullard 5AR4's and found it just softens everything out a bit too much for my taste (with RCA 6CG7 cleartops). TungSol 5u4g big bottle (mid 50's I think) is currently in, but I think I preferred the RCA 5u4G. I'm going to leave it in there for a while and go back. There are so many affordable (read: available) rectifiers out there - it's interesting that everyone is so drawn to the most expensive (read: exclusive, scarce) variants. Has anyone done any blind testing (with the help of a friend) to see if their preference held up? I do know how significant a difference an input tube or a driver tube can make, but my own experiences with rectifiers (mostly in amplifiers) does not seem to reflect the , "....my god, it's like having a brand new component..." epiphany that I'm reminded of when reading folks experiences with the EML tube. I'm open to the possibility of change, certainly, and I know they certainly can and do make a difference. But for the price of a single EML you can get perhaps 8 tungsol variants or other, more readily available NOS...is it really THAT much better than all of them?
Marco, I see a number of variables in the tube selection process - personal taste, other equipment (synergy) and room etc. When we started the early tube rolling activities the preferences on rectifier tubes seemed to shift into two broad camps: 5U4G and GZ34, with the individual preferences being the Tung Sol 5U4G and the metal base GZ34. Prices for both then started to increase and most of the available tubes at a 'reasonable' price were used, for example a used metal base GZ34 was around $200 compared with a NOS at over $600. Along comes the EML 5U4G, which most of us find combines all the strengths of the 5U4G and GZ34, and also adds a dose of something else in addition. Furthermore a significant buying risk is eliminated as the performance is consistent, it's available from a reputable source, the price is fixed and it has a guarantee. In contrast I have a boxful of used vintage tubes, some that have failed and some that are going strong. Given the view that it's considered a strong performer and a 'safe' purchase it's very easy to see its attraction and why the majority of the owners do consider it THAT much better, you get the best rectifier tube with minimal risk. As most of us have started with the 5U4G/GZ34, and then moved on to the EML, it is difficult to take a backwards step. I consider these factors explain why the the EML tube is so popular.
As I currently cannot use the EML I've had to go back to using my other rectifier tubes, for the last few days I've been using an old Emerson 5U4G with the Tung Sol 6SN7 round plates - the combination works very well and makes great music. For those that cannot use the EML, or choose not to go down the EML path, I agree with George in that you can have a great sounding system based on these signal tubes. But again the downside with these tubes is that the buying risk is increased and you have to screw around with adapters, this increases the cost and each adapter currently available isn't perfect. This is one of the reasons I explored the Shuguang 6SN7 last week, if it worked out it would have given us the option of having a readily available, low risk, new tube without the risk and scarcity issues. Some of us are prepared to take greater risk and experiment, others just want to lower the risk and listen to music. I understand all this, unfortunately I fall in the high risk experimenters camp, with the wrong caps :cry:
NB
I believe the EML 274A/B is the same tube in terms of spec as the EML 5U4G, but has a different pin layout - not 100% sure on this.
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The EML 274B tube is a much worse choice for the Transporter than the 5U4 simply because of the capacitance issue.... check out the EML website and the tech notes.
I was just composing a post that asked a similar question to George...
I've been going through the thread a bit, but checking all 49 pages is a daunting task. So forgive me if this has been covered: Has anyone tried the EML 274A/B tube? How about the Svet 5U3C? I've tried a few NOS Mullard 5AR4's and found it just softens everything out a bit too much for my taste (with RCA 6CG7 cleartops). TungSol 5u4g big bottle (mid 50's I think) is currently in, but I think I preferred the RCA 5u4G. I'm going to leave it in there for a while and go back. There are so many affordable (read: available) rectifiers out there - it's interesting that everyone is so drawn to the most expensive (read: exclusive, scarce) variants. Has anyone done any blind testing (with the help of a friend) to see if their preference held up? I do know how significant a difference an input tube or a driver tube can make, but my own experiences with rectifiers (mostly in amplifiers) does not seem to reflect the , "....my god, it's like having a brand new component..." epiphany that I'm reminded of when reading folks experiences with the EML tube. I'm open to the possibility of change, certainly, and I know they certainly can and do make a difference. But for the price of a single EML you can get perhaps 8 tungsol variants or other, more readily available NOS...is it really THAT much better than all of them?
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Phil:
Here are the specs on the tubes you had questions about....
5U4...5 volts/3 amps...octal base
5Z3...same as 5U4 with a 4 pin base
274a..5 volts/2 amps with 4 pint base
274B..same as 274A with an octal base
best,
George
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The 274B is NOT a tube for the Transporter. The Sophia requires a first cap less than 10uf, and the EML and Western Electric less than 4uf! I'm not sure if the "first capacitor (c1)" value is considered the TP's dual caps in series (i.e 2 100uf's equal 50uf, 2 22uf's equal 11uf) or truly the first cap only, but regardless the math doesn't work.
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But don't rectifiers last significantly longer than signal tubes? At least that's what I thought. :scratch:
Rob
I thought signal tubes can go for 10,000+ hours. How long is the rectifier supposed to last?
George
I just posed same ? to George, the EML distributor, no clue about NOS rectifiers as I don't even own one. Was told when I bought my RCA 6SN7 Vt-231s that they are generally good for 3000+, but did notice the 5692's are rated at 10,000. I'm curious now too, so will advise at least on the EML.
OK (quick response)was just informed the EML will operate for 1-2 years under conservative operating parameters, but he did say in this thread (more specifically) he has had his for 2yrs and about 2000hrs if I read correctly.
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Rob:
It's better to have modest expectations here. Afterall, some people are using these tubes in their power amps. I'm in the third year of usage with my 5Z3 tube in my own built power amplifier. I run my tubes conservatively.
Best,
George
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Question/poll:
Who leaves their MW TP on 24/7 (not counting vacations,etc), and for those that don't, how long do you allow for warm-up before serious listening?
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Question/poll:
Who leaves their MW TP on 24/7 (not counting vacations,etc), and for those that don't, how long do you allow for warm-up before serious listening?
My TP is on all the time, but the tubed section gets turned on/off depending on use.
My amps take a good 30-60 minutes to sound their best (19 tubes in pure Class A per mono block - OUCH!), so I am not too concerned about TP and its warm-up period.
George
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Leaving a tube amplifier on 24/7 makes no sense at all :nono:. I can say with certainty that you will be replacing tubes on a premature basis. These comments are primarilly related to output tubes and rectifier tubes.
George
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George H,
Thanks. An yes, I was speaking of the tube section. And l would not recommend externally powering down the TP regularly (front or remote power button is simple a sleep mode; doesn't count) as many have said a DAC chip takes a good 48-72 hrs to settle in.
George L,
I hope no one is saying they are leaving tube amps powered up? Yikes. Do you carry that opinion over to the TP as well? Tube preamps, like the 36.5?
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Ted:
I'm less concerned with signal tubes. With rectifiers, you are sort of in a no win situation. Rectifier tubes take the most abuse when being turned on. Leaving them on indefinitely does not increase the life of the tube either. This is why many electronic designers use SS diodes instead of tube rectification. The problem with SS rectification is that most prefer tube to SS. Pick your poison here!
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Well, in the case of the TP and pre (36.5) they use tube rectification (duals in the 2 box 36.5) so i guess I'll turn mine off every night. :sleep:
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I've been told by more than one person very knowledgeable about tubes that NOS Mullard rectifiers will last at least 10,000 hours.
I don't have a lot of experience with signal tubes. The 5687s I've had in various Modwright products seem to undergo sonic degradation (loss of resolution and the frequency extremes) by 2000 hours; such that I feel the need to change them.
I don't leave my (all tube) gear on overnight but I do leave it on all day once it's been turned on (unless I know I won't be listening again, of course).
Given the prices for high quality (usually NOS) tubes, standby switches are, IMO, a must on all tube equipment. I have them on my amps (Dodds) and I've asked Dan to look into devising one for the 36.5 (the Home Theater bypass switch - which I don't need - would be a perfect location for me).
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I leave mine is sleep mode, run my tube amp (also takes me good 30min for 12 tubes to sound good) , joule pre and MWTP from 6pm to midnight, and then shut it all down with the MWTP in sleep mode.
If I'm gonna be up REAL late and prob not able to turn system off, I will hook up to home theater receiver and throw in the cheap GE rectifier since I wanna conserve tube useage if I'm gonna be eventually sleeping with music on.
I'm in the I want my EML to last camp, I might eventually try that solid plate EML since I did read somewhere in this thread its about ten rows further up in sound diff.
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Marco, I see a number of variables in the tube selection process - personal taste, other equipment (synergy) and room etc. When we started the early tube rolling activities the preferences on rectifier tubes seemed to shift into two broad camps: 5U4G and GZ34, with the individual preferences being the Tung Sol 5U4G and the metal base GZ34. Prices for both then started to increase and most of the available tubes at a 'reasonable' price were used, for example a used metal base GZ34 was around $200 compared with a NOS at over $600. Along comes the EML 5U4G, which most of us find combines all the strengths of the 5U4G and GZ34, and also adds a dose of something else in addition. Furthermore a significant buying risk is eliminated as the performance is consistent, it's available from a reputable source, the price is fixed and it has a guarantee. In contrast I have a boxful of used vintage tubes, some that have failed and some that are going strong. Given the view that it's considered a strong performer and a 'safe' purchase it's very easy to see its attraction and why the majority of the owners do consider it THAT much better, you get the best rectifier tube with minimal risk. As most of us have started with the 5U4G/GZ34, and then moved on to the EML, it is difficult to take a backwards step. I consider these factors explain why the the EML tube is so popular.
As I currently cannot use the EML I've had to go back to using my other rectifier tubes, for the last few days I've been using an old Emerson 5U4G with the Tung Sol 6SN7 round plates - the combination works very well and makes great music. For those that cannot use the EML, or choose not to go down the EML path, I agree with George in that you can have a great sounding system based on these signal tubes. But again the downside with these tubes is that the buying risk is increased and you have to screw around with adapters, this increases the cost and each adapter currently available isn't perfect. This is one of the reasons I explored the Shuguang 6SN7 last week, if it worked out it would have given us the option of having a readily available, low risk, new tube without the risk and scarcity issues. Some of us are prepared to take greater risk and experiment, others just want to lower the risk and listen to music. I understand all this, unfortunately I fall in the high risk experimenters camp, with the wrong caps Crying or Very sad
I agree with Phil's comments about tubes for the Transporter. Some of us like to roll tubes looking for that special combination in our system. I did a bunch of research about mesh tubes before I purchased the EML 5U4G back in December. There is an old version of the 5U4G made in a mesh version that was produced back in the 40's and is suppose to sound fantastic. However, they are nearly impossible to find. I think 6 Moons ran a comparison of current vs. NOS versions 2 or 3 years ago. My guess is if you can find a NOS Version it will be much more than $235.00 for the EML Version and it won't have a warranty.
The thing with the ModWright Transporter is that it is truly a tube rollers dream! The tubes are easily to access and changing tubes definitely alter characteristics of the sound produced. My current preference is the EML 5U4G Mesh with the Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates. However, I can tell you for certain I will continue to experiment with other tubes. In the 11 months I have owned the ModWright no tube combination has lasted very long! :duh:
Ken
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Ken,
I will be VERY interested to see what you/we can come up with that can unseat your EML/TS combo in favor of another.
My octal adaptors will be here Thurs/Fri and my Brimar's prob arrive Fri/Sat I'm hoping. My buddy invited me to snowboard but obviously I will be too busy. :nono: Ever since I got my MWTP I don't get out as much, nor do I care too. aa
I'm ready for a no holds barred USA vs UK 6SN7 BATTLE ROYALE!
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Many thanks, all, for the additional input on rectifiers. Is anyone using, or have you tried, the very reasonably priced Svet 5U3C (military version of 5U4G)?
A few scattered responses to what's been said since my last post: As far as the surety of brand new tubes outlasting NOS; Over half of my 25+ years in this crazy hobby have been spent pursuing tube options, especially on the amp/preamp side. I've had more new Russian tubes fail early (spontaneously) than any other variety, or any NOS, for some reason. I'm very well acquainted with the 5AR4 tubes as they were the rectifier in my several of my favorite components for many years (and still use them in my 36.5). I've tried a few NOS Mullards in my TP and none seem to go will with the 6CG7's to my ears - they tend to soften things out and almost make the music sound a bit slow. I too was under the impression that the 5AR4 was a hearty (long-lasting) tube, and cannot recall any gross failures in that tube in many years of using them. 2000 hours is definitely not what I'd consider long-lasting by any means. For the EML tube that's about .12 cents an hour (if anyone's counting). And I thought my WE 300B's were expensive to run at around .05 cents and hour! Leaving tube gear on 24/7 makes no sense to me - you shorten the useful life of tubes that could otherwise be brought to within 90-100% of their optimum performance within 30minutes to an hour of warmup time. Solid state amps running in class A, often will benefit from leaving it on 24/7 in my experience (in those cases a short warmup will not compare to 24 hours of being on). YMMV / IMHO. The juries out for me on other SS circuits. I do not leave my TP on though.
Thanks again for the input.
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Many thanks, all, for the additional input on rectifiers. Is anyone using, or have you tried, the very reasonably priced Svet 5U3C (military version of 5U4G)?
A few scattered responses to what's been said since my last post: As far as the surety of brand new tubes outlasting NOS; Over half of my 25+ years in this crazy hobby have been spent pursuing tube options, especially on the amp/preamp side. I've had more new Russian tubes fail early (spontaneously) than any other variety, or any NOS, for some reason. I'm very well acquainted with the 5AR4 tubes as they were the rectifier in my several of my favorite components for many years (and still use them in my 36.5). I've tried a few NOS Mullards in my TP and none seem to go will with the 6CG7's to my ears - they tend to soften things out and almost make the music sound a bit slow. I too was under the impression that the 5AR4 was a hearty (long-lasting) tube, and cannot recall any gross failures in that tube in many years of using them. 2000 hours is definitely not what I'd consider long-lasting by any means. For the EML tube that's about .12 cents an hour (if anyone's counting). And I thought my WE 300B's were expensive to run at around .05 cents and hour! Leaving tube gear on 24/7 makes no sense to me - you shorten the useful life of tubes that could otherwise be brought to within 90-100% of their optimum performance within 30minutes to an hour of warmup time. Solid state amps running in class A, often will benefit from leaving it on 24/7 in my experience (in those cases a short warmup will not compare to 24 hours of being on). YMMV / IMHO. The juries out for me on other SS circuits. I do not leave my TP on though.
Thanks again for the input.
Marco,
For $60 you can get the excellent BEL GZ34 tube here:
http://www.tubemonger.com/1970s_Bel_NOS_NIB_GZ34_5AR4_Philips_Mullard_OEM_p/3.htm
While $60 isn't "cheap", I think it is a better all-around tube than the NOS Metal Base that goes for $200+.
George
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I'm new to tubes and high end equipment(2years) but something tells me that in a year George of tubesusa will still have same EML going strong w/3000hrs. I doubt they would put a 2000/12 month warranty on a tube that will last only 2000hrs. That would leave too much room for having to do alot of replacements.
Since people's usage on this tube will vary as well as lifespan on each tube istelf, it's just good business to under deliver in promises and over deliver in expectations.
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i have EML tubes for awhile now with 100uf cap,.what damage does this cap cost beside the tubes?
lapsan
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George.... thanks for the lead on the BEL34.... I just picked one up. I sold my last Blackburn GZ34 as I wasn't overly attached and have a cryoed TAD34 for comparison.... it will probably find a home in my Carina amp eventually.
Lost my beloved Transporter back to Amboy this week for a full Monty soup-up job with everlasting EML harmony :thumb:
Mark
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Lap:
You are asking for trouble when using your EML 5U4G under the current circumstance that surrounds your unit. What could happen?
1)The total demise of your rectifier tube :cry:
2)You blow a fuse
Beyond that scenario, that's about it. However that's enough. Contact Dan at Modwright about your unit!
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Thanks george,
will contact dan later
lapsan
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Got my custom made octal adaptors from FL tonite. Well built looking and all excited to plug and play only to find out they wont fit through the MWTP cover holes :oops:
I simply called the very nice man and he apologized and told me he will send me out at his expense a pair of 9pin socket extenders , which will solve that problem. Guy is a class act and would happily give out his info if anyone wants to PM me. He guarantees everything and reasonable as well.
I did say I was excited to try my octals right, so 5minutes later I finally got to see my MWTP in the BUFF! I was not to be denied.
First off put the RCA Grey Glass VT-231's same ones I have a quad of in my Amp. I noticed off the bat def not as loud as 61NPs , def fuller sounding but way too tubey, lacking dynamics and was just disappointed with the sound, preferred my 61NPs at this point.
What I read that mixing and matching 6SN7s to get best results started to ring true, well at least that's what I was hoping for when I reached for the round plates an hour later. (wanted to warm up RCAs before I threw them to the curb).
So in go the famed TS rounds and can you say WHAM BAM THANK YOU MAM! :drool: Tubey slow sound was replaced with fast, dynamic, full MUSIC and the most resolving music I have heard by far. In my system I'm simply amazed how much of a diff. these TS rounds made. Had way too much RCA sound goin on, and that syrupy sound had a bad effect in both amp as well as source.
With the TS rounds, I actually had to pause the music b/c I had NO IDEA where these new sounds were coming from. So when I realized they was silence outside my room I smiled knowing I had the most resolving sound I have ever heard. Like the review states if it's in the music you will hear it, and I might add distinctively.
My 50s Brimars will be here from UK by Monday latest, I already know they are not as fast/aggressive sounding as the TS rounds but to better them will be a daunting task, it might just be a flavor/system/music choice decision more so then a clear cut which is best. Anyway will be happy to review those as well asap. Plus will be rolling them in the amp as well as source and trying all diff possible combos with RCA's and TS rounds before I decide on best combo.
Stay tuned for Brimar vs TS review!
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Just curious - those those who purchased tubes from the Greek ebay seller, how long did it take to receive your tubes? I completed my transaction on March 2, and nothing has shown up. Should I be concerned? Normally, I wouldn't note this quite yet (from Greece), but he said he uses 1st class airmail to the states (2-3 days), and from there into USPS. So 10+ days later, I'd hope to have these... Thanks for any data on how long it took for you!
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Just curious - those those who purchased tubes from the Greek ebay seller, how long did it take to receive your tubes? I completed my transaction on March 2, and nothing has shown up. Should I be concerned? Normally, I wouldn't note this quite yet (from Greece), but he said he uses 1st class airmail to the states (2-3 days), and from there into USPS. So 10+ days later, I'd hope to have these... Thanks for any data on how long it took for you!
It took mine approximately 2 weeks from the time he notified me he had shipped the tubes. Mine came extremely well packed and an elephant would have had to have stomped on the box to have damaged the tubes. Your tubes will probably show up by Monday.
Please let us know your thoughts on how they sound.
Ken
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Is there a link to the Greek Connection?
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Jwes,
Berto asked this question a few pages back. Here's my reply:
I won a pair of RCA VT-231's from him Feb 3. They arrived in Cleveland OH on the following Monday, Feb 9!!!!
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Jwes,
Berto asked this question a few pages back. Here's my reply:
I won a pair of RCA VT-231's from him Feb 3. They arrived in Cleveland OH on the following Monday, Feb 9!!!!
Took me 10 business days to NY , so it varies. They are really addicting , did'nt want my first listening session to end.
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Mine took about 12 days, and an Elephant HAD stepped on the outside box. When I opened the package it was like one of those Russian matryoshka dolls with layer after layer of bubble wrap and internal boxes. The final box was the original tube box completely intact, I found having an original box dated 1942 to be really cool.
I'm sure they'll arrive in great condition.
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Guys, thanks for all the responses! A slightly building worry has turned back into excitement!!! :thumb:
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15 days to WA state first shipment, 8 days second purchase so it does vary.
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My octal adaptors arrived from Wayne yesterday afternoon (Thanks Wayne :D, super fast shipping & service). I had some other network issues going on, so after installing the adaptors/6SN7's in the MW Transporter, my listening time was hit and miss last night. Got the network issues resolved and started a little earnest listening this morning.
I wish (sort of) that I had some new and great insight to add, but so far my reaction falls right in line with the gang's experience. I initially had my TS round plates installed in my Cary SLI-80 integrated amp, so my first octals in the MW Trpter were a nice pair of Raytheon VT-231's (I had been running some TS blackplate 6CG7's as I tend to like their nice warm sound, sometimes rolling some Raytheon blackplates in which I really like as well). With the Raytheon VT=231's in, it seemed there was just 'more' of everything, plus I had to lower the gain setting on my sub (I have JM Lab Micro Utopia speakers augmented by a REL Strata III sub) by a couple of notches! After an hour or so, I couldn't resist, so I swapped the 6SN7's--putting the Raytheons in my amp and the TS round plates in the Transporter.
OK, the TS round plates are magic!!! Another decent step up, even over the Raytheon's, everything is better--more detail but still incredibly smooth and just so musical. Sounds even more like live voices/music to me.
I also have a couple pair of Ken Rad VT-231's that are well thought of in the 6SN7 world, and need to give them a try----but that would mean prying those TS round plates out of the MW Transporter :o, and right now I can't bear to do it!!!
Just for reference, my MW Trptr is only a couple of months old, and I'm running the EML mesh plate rectifier in it (fortunately given my new unit, no issues on the compatibility for the EML rectifier). The EML is a great tube and deserves all the accolades that have been written about it in this thread, however, to me in my system, the step from the 6CG7 output tubes to the 6SN7's made 3x as much difference/improvement as swapping the rectifiers!!
If we find tube combos that consistently beat the EML mesh rectifier and the TS round plate 6SN7's as far as multiple people's preference, I'm going to be amazed. Right now I'm wondering how I can get much better sound; I'm a happy camper!!
Randy
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Hey Randy:
I am listing to my Transporter right now with the EML Rectifier and Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7's. I agree with your comment that I think it will be very difficult to find a better sounding tube combination. Maybe we now need to start a cord swapping thread! :lol:
Ken
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There is a possibility that Audio Circle may close down in the next 20 hours.
I would be very sorry to see that happen. For more information on this, please read this thread:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65923.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65923.0) .
I have FINALLY worked out all the bugs in building the Octal Adapters. I will now offer them for sale through my web site.
The price will be $125.00 per pair plus shipping in the US. It could possibly take up to 3 weeks to build and ship a pair, depending on demand.
Here (http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/boldercablescom/Detail?no=407) is the link to my webpage where the adapters may be ordered
I hope AC will remain and we can discuss the sound of the Octal adapters with Bybee Inside in this thread at some point.
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British were coming, now they are here!
Got three pairs of 50s long envelope Brimar 6SN7GTs. Mailman said "you came to the door quick" :P
Although the seller claims it's impossible one pair seems to be DOA :scratch:
Seller responded QUICKLY and insured he will resolve this if indeed I'm correct, just a bummer since he does not live around the block.
I first put them in the Source and they sounded great, not as fast as TS rounds but otherwise as clear and as dynamic off the bat. I will NOT say they are better since the session was short. The differences were minor to be honest but I'm sure I can eventually dissect further. Surely more of flavor choice then a clear cut winner.
I then decided to put the working quad of Brimars in my audio aero amp and WOW :drool: They blow the grey glass RCA VT-231's out of the water in this position, less tubey sound, just cleaner, more dynamic, more resolving, NO COMPARISON. RCA's are now BANISHED from my amp. Seller was right, Brimars are AWESOME!
Then I threw the RCAs in the MWTP. Wow, now suddenly I'm in love with them ,and now since my amp seems to have the proper tubes, I will concur w/Ted that the RCA's are now 90% of the TS round plates. And I'm sure like most of us I could throw in any TOP NOTCH 6SN7s and hear differences (esp over time) but would prob thoroughly enjoy all of them as well.
When I do replace the DOA pair I can say how they sound in the source eventually but doubt it be as good as the TS or RCA's b/c of past experience and what I read that mixing the 6SN7s give the best results. TBD still but so far I agree.
If you can find them you will NOT go wrong with these blk coated 50s Brimars, there more along the same cost as RCA's, and most definitely sound better IMO, this presents themselves as a TREMENDOUS value! HIGHLY RECCOMEND!!
This thread has really helped my system, and now I'm excited to just ENJOY the music!
UPDATE: I'm the one that is NUTS! All three pairs work PERFECT, me the idiot jumped to conclusions but it turns out I did not have the tube with no spigot(guide pin) installed right, I got the quad in the amp and the pair in MWTP and it boy does it sound GLORIOUS, I will most def. post again in reference to how I like them compared to TS rounds and RCA's, just emailed the 30yr valve vet to tell him this rookie owes you an apology
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I know I may be bucking the current trend here, but I threw my High Wycombe GZ37 back in today and I may prefer it over the EML. I feel like it has a bit more sophisticated and softer top end which works a bit better in my system. I reserve the right to change my mind :wink:
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I know I may be bucking the current trend here, but I threw my High Wycombe GZ37 back in today and I may prefer it over the EML. I feel like it has a bit more sophisticated and softer top end which works a bit better in my system. I reserve the right to change my mind :wink:
Hey David, forget the tube rolling - you have a power conditioner review to write. :thumb:
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I know I may be bucking the current trend here, but I threw my High Wycombe GZ37 back in today and I may prefer it over the EML. I feel like it has a bit more sophisticated and softer top end which works a bit better in my system. I reserve the right to change my mind :wink:
Hey David, forget the tube rolling - you have a power conditioner review to write. :thumb:
I need to make sure AC is going to still exist before I take the time :o
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David, I do not have an EML to compare to, but the High Wycomb CV378 is a very nice tube. I switch it out every once in a while but it always goes back in place.
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Has anyone tried the ElectroHarmonix 6h30pi tube (gold pin) in either the TP or their LS36.5? I'd appreciate impressions compared to the Sovtek standard and the DR supertube in those two applications. Dan pointed out that the EH is produced by Sovtek, but it was my understanding that it is produced in a different factory than their standard tubes, and to different standards. Anyone using them?
Does anyone have any suggestions of where to get the best price on DR's currently?
Thanks in advance for any input.
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I've tried the EH 6H30pi gold pins in the 36.5. They are significantly better than the Sovteks, maybe halfway to the DRs. They are more forward than the latter but lack the harshness and aggressive forwardness of the former. My only concern about them stems from two posts on the Blue Circle website regarding problems with the gold on the pins of EH 6922s flaking off and causing damage to the amps they were used in. Don't know how prevalent or current that problem is: should probably post on a few forums to ask for others' experiences. In the meantime, I've removed them and gone back to the DRs.
I'm part of a group buy of supposed DRs from Russia that Mike ("ratso") organized here on AC. They just arrived in Chicago, the participants should be getting them over the next few days, and our impressions will be posted here. They were $75./pair, so, if they're real, it'll be a great source.
Rob
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I've tried the EH 6H30pi gold pins in the 36.5. They are significantly better than the Sovteks, maybe halfway to the DRs. They are more forward than the latter but lack the harshness and aggressive forwardness of the former. My only concern about them stems from two posts on the Blue Circle website regarding problems with the gold on the pins of EH 6922s flaking off and causing damage to the amps they were used in. Don't know how prevalent or current that problem is: should probably post on a few forums to ask for others' experiences. In the meantime, I've removed them and gone back to the DRs.
I'm part of a group buy of supposed DRs from Russia that Mike ("ratso") organized here on AC. They just arrived in Chicago, the participants should be getting them over the next few days, and our impressions will be posted here. They were $75./pair, so, if they're real, it'll be a great source.
Rob
Hi Rob:
I am curious to know if you have the Platinum level of mods in your Transporter?
Thanks,
Ken
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I've tried the EH 6H30pi gold pins in the 36.5. They are significantly better than the Sovteks, maybe halfway to the DRs. They are more forward than the latter but lack the harshness and aggressive forwardness of the former. My only concern about them stems from two posts on the Blue Circle website regarding problems with the gold on the pins of EH 6922s flaking off and causing damage to the amps they were used in. Don't know how prevalent or current that problem is: should probably post on a few forums to ask for others' experiences. In the meantime, I've removed them and gone back to the DRs.
Many thanks, Rob, for the input and the caution. I also found this thread on Agon (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1219090862) making comparisons of the EH to both Sovtek and DR's
I'm part of a group buy of supposed DRs from Russia that Mike ("ratso") organized here on AC. They just arrived in Chicago, the participants should be getting them over the next few days, and our impressions will be posted here. They were $75./pair, so, if they're real, it'll be a great source.
Rob
I'd be all over that if it pans out to be the real deal. :thumb: The best price I've found is around $200/pair from Europe :|. Do keep us posted and feel free to ping me if you have any idea when and if another group buy might be possible.
On another note, and as an addendum to my thoughts thus far on this thread; I've been utterly astounded at the difference rolling the rectifier can make in the sound of the TP. I'm used to differences further from the source, which I've found are more subtle (changing the rectifier in an amp for instance). I went from the stock NOS RCA 5u4G that came with my TP mod, over to a 1950's TungSol 5u4G. Sadly I had no time to listen at the time and it sat there for a week occasionally being the DAC for playing DVD movies...but no music. Then a week later I was astounded when I cued up a cut of music. All of a sudden the bass was resounding and the low mids more full and clear. The music seemed to have more body and heft. It was as if someone had flipped a switch and I was at first very confused. Then I noticed the big bottle that was sticking out of the TP and realized what had happened. I had to test my theory so I put back the RCA. Gone was the bass and the body. All of a sudden Marilyn Monroe had turned into Olive Oyl. So now I'm hooked. Not ready for an EML, but I've ordered a GZ37 (Mullard RAF 1960's tall bottle) to follow up, given comments here on that rectifier. I'd assume the coke bottle variant of the GZ would not fit into the hole in the TP, would it? And what is the High Wycombe that keeps coming up here? I assume that is the location of a plant that made them at some point like Blackburn is for 5AR4's? I've not seen listings for that particular tube, but assume from comments here it is significantly more expensive than the $70 I paid for the 60's tall boy?
Again, thanks for all the contributions and very useful feedback here.
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Not ready for an EML, but I've ordered a GZ37 (Mullard RAF 1960's tall bottle) to follow up, given comments here on that rectifier. I'd assume the coke bottle variant of the GZ would not fit into the hole in the TP, would it? And what is the High Wycombe that keeps coming up here? I assume that is the location of a plant that made them at some point like Blackburn is for 5AR4's? I've not seen listings for that particular tube, but assume from comments here it is significantly more expensive than the $70 I paid for the 60's tall boy?
Check this site for information on the High Wycombe GZ37: http://www.mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155
Ken
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Check this site for information on the High Wycombe GZ37: http://www.mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155
Ken
Thanks, Ken. Ah, well that's what I knew as a "Coke Bottle" - I'd never heard it called "High Wycombe" before. So can that tube clear the hole in the TP case? I'd think it would be too large.
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[
I'd be all over that if it pans out to be the real deal. :thumb: The best price I've found is around $200/pair from Europe :|.
Marco,
Partsconnexion, where many of us got our DR's, has them everyday for $165 matched pair, and sometimes runs a 20% sale. Don't pay more, certainly,. but the group buy is a real find, assuming they are the real deal..
The High Wycombe has been talked about numerous times on this thread. David uses it as his go-to rectiifier, and mentioned it again just two days ago (a few posts back on this page) as being better than his EML. Yes, it fits the TP fine (dwarfed by the EML). There are many coke bottles, but only one High Wycombe.
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Marco,
Partsconnexion, where many of us got our DR's, has them everyday for $165 matched pair, and sometimes runs a 20% sale. Don't pay more, certainly,. but the group buy is a real find, assuming they are the real deal..
Thanks, Ted. I checked there and all I could find was 6N30-DR's for that price. I assume this is not the same tube, is it?
The High Wycombe has been talked about numerous times on this thread. David uses it as his go-to rectiifier, and mentioned it again just two days ago (a few posts back on this page) as being better than his EML. Yes, it fits the TP fine (dwarfed by the EML). There are many coke bottles, but only one High Wycombe.
Yes, I've noticed. Thanks for that clarification. So how do you tell a High Wycombe from your standard fat-bottle GZ37? Are there special markings to look for, or is it always distinguished by the seller? What years was this produced?
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Same tube. He's using the Reflektor wording on the tube (Russian alpha).
The High Wycombe is named for the area in England where it was mfg'd during 1950-55. It has a CV378 nomenclature printed on it (not unique though), and is considered the best GZ37 out there.
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That High Wycombe sounds nice. :drool:
I'm listening to EML with 50s blk coated Brimars right now and been switching them with TS rounds tonite.
If I would too analyze the music only I would say the TS sound better, if I was to say which one got me more musicaly involved, so far I would def give the nod to the one fourth the price and less aggressive Brimars :D
Trying to get my hands on some Orange label Brimars now which supposedly sound AWESOME as well. So far I consider them GIANT killers and might just sell the TS rounds and buy a High Wycombe for a lil rollin against the EML.
Maybe I can try a High Wycombe if someone wants to try some TS rounds.
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Tube World has the High Wycombe for $250:
https://www.tubeworld.com/topten.htm
If anyone is interested Wycombe is pronounced Wickome.
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Same tube. He's using the Reflektor wording on the tube (Russian alpha).
Got it! Thanks.
The High Wycombe is named for the area in England where it was mfg'd during 1950-55. It has a CV378 nomenclature printed on it (not unique though), and is considered the best GZ37 out there.
I'm still not clear on specifically what to look for. Given that there are other fat-bottle GZ37 with a CV378 nomenclature, what should one look for on the tube itself that will distinguish a High Wycombe from any other fat-bottle GZ37? Is there a specific date code to look for perhaps?
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The standard Mullard GZ37 and the High Wycombe are both "coke bottle" tubes but the latter are significantly fatter; as can be seen on the above quoted website (http://www.mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155) and also - perhaps more clearly - on this site: www.tubeworld.com (go to rectifiers, then GZ37/CV378). They do show up on Ebay and there are two or three available there now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/53KU-GZ37-COSSOR-VALVE-TUBE-BULBOUS-ENVELOPE_W0QQitemZ200282334223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL?hash=item200282334223&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
http://cgi.ebay.com/1Pcs-NOS-CV378-GZ37-5u4g-GZ34-Big-Bottle_W0QQitemZ300300538966QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item300300538966&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
Some of the pieces are labelled "Haltron" or "Cossor" while some have no brand name on them - none are labelled "High Wycombe" as this was the place of manufacture, as Ted stated.
It is definitely better than the standard GZ37 (which is a nice tube though).
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The standard Mullard GZ37 and the High Wycombe are both "coke bottle" tubes but the latter are significantly fatter; as can be seen on the above quoted website (http://www.mullardtubes.com/Mullard-GZ-37_Fat-Glass_GZ37/?ID=0&ProductID=155) and also - perhaps more clearly - on this site: www.tubeworld.com (go to rectifiers, then GZ37/CV378). They do show up on Ebay and there are two or three available there now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/53KU-GZ37-COSSOR-VALVE-TUBE-BULBOUS-ENVELOPE_W0QQitemZ200282334223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL?hash=item200282334223&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
http://cgi.ebay.com/1Pcs-NOS-CV378-GZ37-5u4g-GZ34-Big-Bottle_W0QQitemZ300300538966QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item300300538966&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
Some of the pieces are labelled "Haltron" or "Cossor" while some have no brand name on them - none are labelled "High Wycombe" as this was the place of manufacture, as Ted stated.
It is definitely better than the standard GZ37 (which is a nice tube though).
TA, very much, Rob!
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Marco, I have an extra pair of DR's. Just shoot me a PM if you want a deal on them.
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Rob is the authority on the GZ37's. I still thank him for mine :thumb:
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Hi Rob:
I am curious to know if you have the Platinum level of mods in your Transporter?
Thanks,
Ken
Ken,
Don't have a Transporter yet, just the 36.5. Post here because it's the place to be! :lol:
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Marco, I have an extra pair of DR's. Just shoot me a PM if you want a deal on them.
P.M. sent. Thanks!
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First day with the TS Rounds... :angel:
Yes I'm floating up there - more to come, but you've read it already from so many others. What I've been looking for is essentially an emotional response (which is by definition relevant to me, and so specific qualities of this would be different for everyone). These are really getting me close - sort of feels like strumming strings inside my chest. And this was just from my wife's personalized radio station on Pandora (128k stream)! Just amazing. And I have to say that it does not suck to have September 1942 Navy equipment playing music. Quite nostalgic.
Oh by the way, I have a pair of recently NOS DR's available. :green:
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Rob is the authority on the GZ37's. I still thank him for mine :thumb:
Thanks for the kind words David. I'll be sending you a PM later.
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Ted:
I also have the correct pair of Russian 6H8C's coming, but plan on using them only if my system changes elsewhere.
Did you ever receive the Russian 6H8C's with the round holes? If so have you had the chance to listen to them in the Transporter? Comments?
Thanks,
Ken
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Ken,
Yes I did. I posted on a couple of PM's, and your post made me realize I never posted here. :duh:
The Russian 6H8C's with the 5 round vertical holes are quite good if your system tends to sound too tubey or too warm. As I posted about the earlier ones, these are almost identical (i.e great detail, very 6N1P-like, very dynamic) and even cleaner (less grain) than the rectangular holed versions. They are clearly at one end of the sound spectrum, but still very very good at what they do. I would put them at or near the top of my list if I were to have a very euphonic, tube-rich signal path (say, tube pre AND power amp, or one of the two that are very warm and lush). This set of signal tubes would kick ass in a signal path like that.
P.S I'm not using them or their cousins currently so anybody that wants to borrow them just PM me. My TS round plates are not going anywhere. :)
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Ken,
Yes I did. I posted on a couple of PM's, and your post made me realize I never posted here. :duh:
The Russian 6H8C's with the 5 round vertical holes are quite good if your system tends to sound too tubey or too warm. As I posted about the earlier ones, these are almost identical (i.e great detail, very 6N1P-like, very dynamic) and even cleaner (less grain) than the rectangular holed versions. They are clearly at one end of the sound spectrum, but still very very good at what they do. I would put them at or near the top of my list if I were to have a very euphonic, tube-rich signal path (say, tube pre AND power amp, or one of the two that are very warm and lush). This set of signal tubes would kick ass in a signal path like that.
P.S I'm not using them or their cousins currently so anybody that wants to borrow them just PM me. My TS round plates are not going anywhere. :)
Ted:
Thank you for the review of the Russian 6H8C's. I actually purchased a pair from a dealer located in Russia off of ebay and they are the ones with the rectangle holes. Earlier tonight I was talking with Phil and described the 6H8C's as sounding like I remembered Telefunken 12AU7's sounding in my previous preamp. I described them as sterile or lean sounding. I have tried them in the Transporter and in my preamp and in both I hear the leaner (as you describe it less tubey warmth) sound. Currently, I have the RCA VT's in the Pre and Tung-Sol Round Plates along with the EML Rectifier in the Transporter. I may eventually do some more tube rolling but I am really enjoying the music this combination of tubes is making from my system.
I am happy to read your review of the 6H8C's describes what I feel I heard from them in my system. (I wish I had your capability to better describe the sound characteristics).
Ken
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Ted, as the resident 6N1P lover I'm interested in trying out the 6H8C's.
I tried living without my EML but just didn't enjoy the other rectifiers as much, so my TP got shipped to Amboy this week. Consequently I'm out of action for a couple of weeks, if you get other interest let them have first option on a demo.
Phil
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Will do. Got your PM. Lemme know when the TP is on its way back.
Ted
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Ken,
Yes I did. I posted on a couple of PM's, and your post made me realize I never posted here. :duh:
The Russian 6H8C's with the 5 round vertical holes are quite good if your system tends to sound too tubey or too warm. As I posted about the earlier ones, these are almost identical (i.e great detail, very 6N1P-like, very dynamic) and even cleaner (less grain) than the rectangular holed versions. They are clearly at one end of the sound spectrum, but still very very good at what they do. I would put them at or near the top of my list if I were to have a very euphonic, tube-rich signal path (say, tube pre AND power amp, or one of the two that are very warm and lush). This set of signal tubes would kick ass in a signal path like that.
P.S I'm not using them or their cousins currently so anybody that wants to borrow them just PM me. My TS round plates are not going anywhere. :)
Ted:
Thank you for the review of the Russian 6H8C's. I actually purchased a pair from a dealer located in Russia off of ebay and they are the ones with the rectangle holes. Earlier tonight I was talking with Phil and described the 6H8C's as sounding like I remembered Telefunken 12AU7's sounding in my previous preamp. I described them as sterile or lean sounding. I have tried them in the Transporter and in my preamp and in both I hear the leaner (as you describe it less tubey warmth) sound. Currently, I have the RCA VT's in the Pre and Tung-Sol Round Plates along with the EML Rectifier in the Transporter. I may eventually do some more tube rolling but I am really enjoying the music this combination of tubes is making from my system.
I am happy to read your review of the 6H8C's describes what I feel I heard from them in my system. (I wish I had your capability to better describe the sound characteristics).
Ken
I bought a pair of 6H8C's from Tyroo http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64843.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64843.0) and am enjoying them very much. Mine have 2 rectangular holes. I've been using them with Wayne's adapters and a Mullard GZ37. My previous tubes of choice were the RCA cleartops. I think the 6H8C's are quite a bit more holographic sounding and a bit clearer and faster sounding - not lean or sterile in my system. I have also used the EML tube and like it matched with the Russian 6N6P's. I had to pull the EML since my TP isn't the current mod. I'll get that done someday. I didn't like the 6H8C's right off the bat but with about 75 hrs on them they will be staying for awhile ;)
Tony
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i like to thanks this groups for tubes rolling,u guys save me alot of money from sharing your experience . :thumb:
lapsan
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Hi all -
Just curious: in looking at the TS round plate 6SN7's, does anyone know if there's appreciable difference between the actually very round mica plate vs. the oval (assuming both are CTL 6SN7GT)? I think both are referred to as "round" plate, but not sure if there's any difference...
Jim
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Hi Jim,
I posed this question regarding mica shape, not plate shape, in another forum 2-3 weeks ago. I also asked about the copper vs steel (?) support rods. Most didn't have an opinion or thought there was little or no difference. One guy, 'Len' who was referred to as 'Dr. 6SN7' had heard hundreds of round plate TS and had not been able to detect any audible difference. One post did feel the round mica had more energy or were a bit more forward.
I bought the oval mica's although the round are supposed to be the earliest and less common version.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/21/217249.html
Good luck!
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I ping'd Brent Jesse. Here's his response:
I am a bit on thin ice here since these tubes are so rare I have not seen that many of them. The characteristic they all share are the distinctive plates inside the tube. These are the twin black structures you can just see the top of above the black band on the glass. When they are called “round plate” or “oval plate” the name references the two black plates that run up and down between the top and bottom mica. The oval or round name does NOT refer to the mica spacer at the top or bottom. The black plates of these tubes are actually a cylinder or a flattened cylinder and there are two of them spaced apart. The top mica may be round or it may be oval, I know they did make some minor design changes during the production of this tube. The black plates inside are always the same, however. The sound quality of all of these, regardless of mica spacer shape, is superb. They made a “civilian” version of this tube that looked the same, but did not have the CTL or JAN markings on the label.
Keep an eye open for this tube made by Tung Sol for other brands. I have had National Union in stock, and it was the same Tung Sol oval plate with black glass, and the label on the base was even in the silver ink. Sometimes you can find these for a song since they don’t have the Tung Sol name on them!
Best Regards,
Brent Jessee
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Ted and JG2,
Thanks for the help. Just to add another perspective, I heard from another guy that he felt the round mica was a bit more pronounced in the lows and the oval excelled a bit more in the mid to highs. Maybe we're just into crazy hair splitting at this point :roll:.
But Ted, that's great advice by Brent about what defines the characteristics (not the mica shape), and even more that TS made tubes for other mfgs! I have the very round mica and think I'll get a pair of oval for backup and will report back!
Jim
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Jim,
I found the most interesting post on the AA thread was from a guy who claims to have heard 'hundreds' of RPTP 6SN7's and heard no difference.
Most would agree that round or oval mica's, these are indeed a very special tube! Let us know what you hear between the 2 versions when you have had a chance to do an A/B.
John
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Yep I read through that thread. This is very likely one tube difference that makes no difference. Nevertheless in a few weeks I should be able to comment on what I hear...
Jim
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since Jim asked one question that I had running through my head I'll go ahead and ask another...
I've seen a few of the TS rounds bearing the VT-231, but most seem to be labeled CTL/6SN7GT only even though they claim the VT-231. Do you guys know if there is any difference?
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Here's a great page by Brent Jesse: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
At that bottom of the paragraph on 6SN7GT/G, he says that the early 40's TS were the military version of the VT-231. There is also a nice little video buried in there showing different GT's. IN all the looking I've done, I've never seen the actual "VT-231" on any of the 40's Tung Sol. I wonder if this kind later became known as "VT-231" types and that designation was used for other tubes made in that vein... :dunno:
Jim
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Wait: here from a link inside the Brent Jesse link that I sent. It appears that with TS, it's the CTL prefix that is the "231" designation...
VT-231:
These are basically the military lableling for the commercial versions of the 6SN7 types described below. There are many different prefixes as well, depending upon the manufacturer-- Raytheon is CRP, Sylvania CHS, RCA CRC, CBS-Hytron JHY, Tungsol CTL, KenRad CKR. See my section section on this by clicking here.
6SN7GT / G:
This is the original version of this tube. It may be found in all three sizes of glass envelope. The Sylvania Tall Boy types have two triangular shaped plates facing each other mounted high in the tube, with either a top or bottom getter. The early Sylvania types had a top getter and silver flashed the entire top of the tube, sometimes called "chrome tops". Many brands used this design, but the high mounted triangular plates means it most likely was made by Sylvania. The early RCA "GT" types were usually in either a medium or short envelope and have a grey RF shield sprayed on inside the glass. The GE and KenRad types were similar, but the inner glass coating is deep black. These tubes usually have flat black plates, like large 12AX7 blackplates. The military versions of these are the VT-231 and are in very high demand today.
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I will ad:
VT-231* - Military Part number for 6SN7. Part number used until 1945 - hence presence of this designation is usually a guarantee for real old tubes.
I also read that there is no magical difference with the VT-231, but now here is the contradiction, well more so regarding the RCA 6SN7 which were produced from 1942-1956.
“Here we get into murky territory. RCA produced a grey glass 6SN7GT with side micas straight through from 1942 until at least 1956, and there is a great deal of sonic variation among tubes within that period. None are bad. But the early one sound far better.
So it appears in regard to the RCA at least, the VT-231 should be more sought after since you will know you have a earlier, better sounding version (we hope).
If your paying more for a TS round b/c of a VT-231 designation , at least from all the reviews claiming no sound difference , it seems pointless. Hope this helps.
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Here is a general history of the 6SN7 that I found interesting and briefly goes into the versions.
http://www.6sn7.com/
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Hi just wanna re-clarify my humble opinion on TS rounds and Blk Coated Brimars. You see I listen to alot of "less then perfect" live music. So the TS rounds like any amazing piece of equipment well exposes a bad recording even more as it is the most revealing and open and dynamic, loudest 6SN7 by a margin. (that ive heard)
For a perfect recording, esp with alot goin on the TS round plates I agree are numero uno but with alot of my less then perfect recordings I prefer the more lush and nearly as open Brimars.
So more of a which one is gonna be better on your ears at the time, depending on listening tastes. Bottom line is IMHO 6SN7's are KING, put the 61NPs back in after my first week w/adapters and they lasted all of 2minutes. Like that old Wendys commercial "Where's The Beef"!
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I've had the Raytheon VT-231's in use for about a week. They brought a more dynamic, live feel over the 6H30 DR's. It was as if the room itself was different, like going from an acoustically dead room to one more lively. Everything had more punch, dynamics, but still controlled. They were paired with the metal base gz34 because I couldn't bring myself to pull the EML out of my SWLP. I could easily live with them, but of course the audio nervosa virus runs deep. I had a pair of Tung Sol's enroute and they have been in use a couple days now. They aren't as dynamic, but are more refined and musical in every other way. Yea.. they are still on top. But IMO the Raytheon's are worth considering if it's a choice between them and your mortgage. I could also see them being preferred in a too polite system.
The EML seems to breathe life wherever they go. In the SWLP, the same improvements noted carried over as well. Particularly, the phono stage was more relaxed but not in a laid back way. Effortless may be a better way to describe it. Soundstage still more pointed and overall sound more organic, natural. That's comparing directly to the gz34. When the EML was in the Transporter, I tended to favor it. But when moved to the SWLP, I preferred the vinyl.
So no real surprise here.. just more viable options and possibilities.
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:scratch:
Anyone know if I can run a ECC34 , same base as 6SN7 but not sure if compatible with the MWTP?
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Dunno. Let's hold off until Dan replies (or someone who has tried). It's not an exact replacement in all applications, and has much lower plate resistances.
On Brendan's site, about a third of the way down on this page, is an electrical comparison. Weird, though; the comments directly above the chart aren't exactly reflected in the chart.
https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7.htm
Bob's (tubeseller) site certainly speaks highly of the Mullards, though.
http://www.tubeseller.com/catalog/i5.html
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I'm really getting a education on these exotic 6SN7 variations. It might very well be that this tube is more sexy and rare then it actually GOOD audio wise. I read this in Hi-Fi form FWIW:
"THe ECC34, IMO, isn't a good audio tube; in fact, it was never designed with audio fidelity in mind (unlike many 6SN7s)."
He went on to say you can do better with the 6SN7s and that the tube is more sexy then anything else. So for $100ptube and up I think I will hold off for now.
Other sellers like tubeworld call ECC33 tops and a replacement for the 6SN7GT so that looks like the tube to prob search for if it is COMPATIBLE.
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I bit the bullet tonight and ordered a pair of TS roundplates. :oops: Now, I have to get some adapters. Anybody get the released version from Wayne? Or anyone using the Taiwanese version without having to modify the holes in the TP? (just want to be sure it can be done)...
This one is for George... where did you get your tube dampers? Did you say they were made out of Titanium?
I have read that 6SN7 tubes tend to be more microphonic than their little 6CG7 brothers. If they are not too much money it might make sense to try them out, plus I think they look pretty cool.
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I bit the bullet tonight and ordered a pair of TS roundplates. :oops: Now, I have to get some adapters. Anybody get the released version from Wayne? Or anyone using the Taiwanese version without having to modify the holes in the TP? (just want to be sure it can be done)...
This one is for George... where did you get your tube dampers? Did you say they were made out of Titanium?
I have read that 6SN7 tubes tend to be more microphonic than their little 6CG7 brothers. If they are not too much money it might make sense to try them out, plus I think they look pretty cool.
Herbie's (http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/)
You want the Ultrasonic 30 at $14.95 each.
Money well spent in my book.
BTW, I don't think the 6SN7 tubes are more microphonic.
George
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I bit the bullet tonight and ordered a pair of TS roundplates. :oops: Now, I have to get some adapters. Anybody get the released version from Wayne? Or anyone using the Taiwanese version without having to modify the holes in the TP? (just want to be sure it can be done)...
This one is for George... where did you get your tube dampers? Did you say they were made out of Titanium?
I have read that 6SN7 tubes tend to be more microphonic than their little 6CG7 brothers. If they are not too much money it might make sense to try them out, plus I think they look pretty cool.
Greg, the signal tube hole modification was only an issue Ted and I had - you should be fine.
Phil
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I also use the Herbie's ultrasonics (posted about it when i got them). I have a pair for the 6SN7's and one huge one (70) for my EML. Don't use Herbie's earlier versions here; the titanium ultrasonics have no muffling or deadening qualities to the sound, just a nice elimination of microphonics and dampening of resonances.
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Hi all,
Well, just a quick update: my current combo of a '59 fat black base Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and the wonderful TS rounds is hitting on so many fronts - including punch, deeper and tighter base, clean highs, etc. As I mentioned quickly before, my wife told me it sounded like a "record player" - which in her words is a huge compliment, as she is quite sensitive to listening fatigue. The combo is giving me a smoother sound. One word that came to mind when I inserted the 6SN7's with Wayne's adapaters was "drive". They replaced a pair of DR's and just seemed to take control and drive this thing. I felt these tubes were giving me the return on my investments in amps, cables, etc. I finally felt it all... Also, I really wonder if the fat black base rectifier is somewhat under-appreciated.
Still, I'm quite interested in the EML. One thing I could go for is a bit more "liquid" in the mids. I've read through all the posts obviously, but I'm kind of curious - for those that went the EML route, did you hear an immediate change for the better, or did it take a typical break in time (100 hours or so)? I can't expect the EML to provide the kind of upgrade that the TS rounds did (that doesn't seem possible). I think that after the super power supply upgrade and the TS rounds, the rectifier hasn't done as much for some (David went back to GZ37's I think). Anyway, just curious - when you put in the EML, was it an immediate "wow" or did it take some good break in time. Not a very scientific approach, but it can give an indication...
Jim
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Hi all,
Well, just a quick update: my current combo of a '59 fat black base Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and the wonderful TS rounds is hitting on so many fronts - including punch, deeper and tighter base, clean highs, etc. As I mentioned quickly before, my wife told me it sounded like a "record player" - which in her words is a huge compliment, as she is quite sensitive to listening fatigue. The combo is giving me a smoother sound. One word that came to mind when I inserted the 6SN7's with Wayne's adapaters was "drive". They replaced a pair of DR's and just seemed to take control and drive this thing. I felt these tubes were giving me the return on my investments in amps, cables, etc. I finally felt it all... Also, I really wonder if the fat black base rectifier is somewhat under-appreciated.
Still, I'm quite interested in the EML. One thing I could go for is a bit more "liquid" in the mids. I've read through all the posts obviously, but I'm kind of curious - for those that went the EML route, did you hear an immediate change for the better, or did it take a typical break in time (100 hours or so)? I can't expect the EML to provide the kind of upgrade that the TS rounds did (that doesn't seem possible). I think that after the super power supply upgrade and the TS rounds, the rectifier hasn't done as much for some (David went back to GZ37's I think). Anyway, just curious - when you put in the EML, was it an immediate "wow" or did it take some good break in time. Not a very scientific approach, but it can give an indication...
Jim
Jim, I heard a major difference immediately with the EML and this was replacing a mb GZ34.
This difference was with 6H30's/6N1P's/6CG7's and not the 6SN7's, it may be that the difference is less noticeable when you have the 6SN7's already installed.
Whatever the case the EML is new, affordable, available and has a guarantee - I see these as significant benefits as all MWTP owners can gain access to it if they wish.
Phil
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Whatever the case the EML is new, affordable, available and has a guarantee - I see these as significant benefits as all MWTP owners can gain access to it if they wish.
Phil
Hi Phil, yes there's no denying the value of that. It is cheaper also than fat base, metal base, etc. (at least NOS). In fact, I wish there were others like this (a modern TS round 6SN7 equivalent perhaps :thumb: ?). Thanks for the thoughts - I'll report back on whether I have a "big bang" effect with the EML.
Jim
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Still, I'm quite interested in the EML. One thing I could go for is a bit more "liquid" in the mids. I've read through all the posts obviously, but I'm kind of curious - for those that went the EML route, did you hear an immediate change for the better, or did it take a typical break in time (100 hours or so)? I can't expect the EML to provide the kind of upgrade that the TS rounds did (that doesn't seem possible). I think that after the super power supply upgrade and the TS rounds, the rectifier hasn't done as much for some (David went back to GZ37's I think). Anyway, just curious - when you put in the EML, was it an immediate "wow" or did it take some good break in time. Not a very scientific approach, but it can give an indication...
Jim
Jim:
I made the switch to the EML 5U4G from a MB-GZ34 when I was using the 6H30DR signal tubes. I did not critically listen for the first 90 hours but when I did sit down to listen it was obvious the EML had made a significant change. I listened for awhile and switched back to the MB and let it warm-up for 30 mins. or so. When I sat down to listen my reaction was "what happen to the music?" I quickly switched back to the EML and I knew I had found my rectifier tube. Some time later I switched the DRs out and replaced them with 6CG7's which I ran until I replaced them with 6SN7's (currently the Tung-Sol Round Plates). I have not switched back to the MB-GZ34 with the Tung-Sol Round Plates and therefore cannot testify to the current level of impact from the EML 5U4G. I am just so happy with the music I don't want to change anything!
Ken
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Thanks for the all the info guys. I am anxious to hear what you are all gushing over. :thumb:
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Holy 6SN7, Batman! :o I thought these (http://cgi.ebay.com/SET-OF-STANDARD-6SN7-33S30B-33S29B-22S22C-5S2D_W0QQitemZ120336562920QQihZ002QQcategoryZ64629QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262?_trksid=p1713.m153.l1262) were extinct! So which one of you high rollers are going to spring for the ultimate 6SN7 (33S30's) paired off with a very unusual big-bottle 5AR4 variant that I've also never seen before? I guess this must be the seller in Greece you folks are buying from.
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Has anybody tried RCA(USA made) or Sylvania 5ar4 FAT BOY / BIG BOTTLE? Curious on the difference between the GZ37 & EML. Thanks.
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I requested a "fat bottle" CV378 from my Brimar dealer in UK and he said I would have to wait till he gets pregnant. Funny thing is only took 3 days from conception to birth and now my baby will arrive by Friday.
Rydenfan got me REAL curious ever since he preferred that over EML. Safe to say one of these rectifiers will be a damn good backup. Excited to roll it with the 6SN7s to hear the difference. :drool: After this besides trying a few more 6SN7s, diff cords etc, I'm done. Question is, are we really ever done.. :icon_lol:
In regards to Jwes , I heard an IMMEDIATE better sound distinction with the EML but compared to the stock rectifier, it's prob not saying a whole helluva lot.
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Question is, are we really ever done.. :icon_lol:
I am getting darn close...
Tubes: set on TS 6SN7 Round Plates (still want to try EML rectifier, but extremely happy with BEL GZ34)
Power Cord: set with Kaplan Cable copper conditioner cord
Platform: set with the Sistrum SP-101
The next major step for me will be sending my unit back for the Platinum or Hyper-drive mods. That won't happen until I have to make my next business trip as I don't want to be without my TP. aa
George
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I requested a "fat bottle" CV378 from my Brimar dealer in UK and he said I would have to wait till he gets pregnant. Funny thing is only took 3 days from conception to birth and now my baby will arrive by Friday.
Rydenfan got me REAL curious ever since he preferred that over EML. Safe to say one of these rectifiers will be a damn good backup. Excited to roll it with the 6SN7s to hear the difference. :drool: After this besides trying a few more 6SN7s, diff cords etc, I'm done. Question is, are we really ever done.. :icon_lol:
It is certainly a different sound and I will be curious what you think. To me, the GZ37 is a bit softer and more sophisticated on the to end with the EML being more energetic. What type of mood I am in and what components I am listening to certainly he an effect on my preference. Nice to have options :thumb:
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Question is, are we really ever done.. :icon_lol:
I am getting darn close...
must be a nice feeling :lol:
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RE new and esoteric tubes that are of questionable use in the Transporter, in the case of the driver tubes, I really need both datasheets and a pair to test in a unit here on the bench to ascertain their viability. I offer this service as a way of keeping our cutomers from damaging valuable tubes or damaging the unit itself.
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Dan,
Are there any plans in future TP mods as to have a choice of 6sn7 or 6cg7 socket?
Thanks.
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I requested a "fat bottle" CV378 from my Brimar dealer in UK and he said I would have to wait till he gets pregnant. Funny thing is only took 3 days from conception to birth and now my baby will arrive by Friday.
Rydenfan got me REAL curious ever since he preferred that over EML. Safe to say one of these rectifiers will be a damn good backup. Excited to roll it with the 6SN7s to hear the difference. :drool: After this besides trying a few more 6SN7s, diff cords etc, I'm done. Question is, are we really ever done.. :icon_lol:
It is certainly a different sound and I will be curious what you think. To me, the GZ37 is a bit softer and more sophisticated on the to end with the EML being more energetic. What type of mood I am in and what components I am listening to certainly he an effect on my preference. Nice to have options :thumb:
I wonder have you Rydenfan or anyone tested the GZ37 with the 6SN7s. Cant be bad with some round plates , those add energy to everything.
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my last evaluations of Rectifiers has been with the 6SN7 signal tubes. So, yes I have listened to it with the round plates :D
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I wonder have you Rydenfan or anyone tested the GZ37 with the 6SN7s. Cant be bad with some round plates , those add energy to everything.
I've been using mine with a GZ37 and some 1952 6HC8 which are supposed to sound as good as the round plates. It sound's very nice BUT I like the EML tube better. I just sent my TP off today to get the platinum mods so I can use the EML safely. I look forward to getting it back :drool:
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Quick "very early" listening impressions. My TP has the newer platinum mods/bybee. Signal tubes are the Tung Sol round plates. The change is swapping out the fat black base Mullard 5AR4/GZ34, and putting in the new EML.
Well, I have only about 10 hours so this is quite early, but right now there are somewhat mixed results. I find the highs to be fairly equivalent - nicely detailed and not overbearing. Mids I find a bit of advantage in the EML. There is a bit of increased liquidity and the soundstage is better defined. These are two qualities I really enjoy. But the difference over the Mullard is only slight.
One thing I'm not liking as much yet is the bass. There is plenty of bass, but it is softer. Hard drum thwacks are coming across as somewhat fuzzy. They were cleaner and tigher with the GZ34. But like I said this is very early. I'm quite surprised right now to see the EML as the softer, somewhat more nuanced tube.
Next week after some real burn in time I'll do a more comprehensive job.
Jim
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To answer the question about offering the Transporter mod with choice of 6CG7 (noval - 9pin) or 6SN7 (octal) tube sockets, I believe this to be the best solution.
First of all, I believe that the use of Octal sockets is a perfectly acceptable way to go. If you are worrying about another point of connection, then I would advise using some sort of deoxit type cleaner for the pins of the adaptor. BE CAREFUL about applying such cleaners to the tube pins however, as some are too aggressive and can compromise the tube's vacuum.
We are currently making the following changes to all new mods and all units that come back in for upgrades:
100uf caps replaced with 22uf caps to allow for use of EML and other rectifiers.
MWI signal capacitors near tube sockets moved to bottom of PCB to alleviate any physical conflicts with different adaptors.
Signal tube holes are punched to larger diameter (all but earliest units already feature this) to accomodate different tubes/adaptors.
Thanks!
Dan W.
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I requested a "fat bottle" CV378 from my Brimar dealer in UK and he said I would have to wait till he gets pregnant. Funny thing is only took 3 days from conception to birth and now my baby will arrive by Friday.
Rydenfan got me REAL curious ever since he preferred that over EML. Safe to say one of these rectifiers will be a damn good backup. Excited to roll it with the 6SN7s to hear the difference. :drool: After this besides trying a few more 6SN7s, diff cords etc, I'm done. Question is, are we really ever done.. :icon_lol:
It is certainly a different sound and I will be curious what you think. To me, the GZ37 is a bit softer and more sophisticated on the to end with the EML being more energetic. What type of mood I am in and what components I am listening to certainly he an effect on my preference. Nice to have options :thumb:
Yes I agree 100% the CV378 is softer and smoother on top, and VERY intoxicating, but EML wins flat out in dynamics and slam, but wouldn't say the EML is more resolving just louder and more energetic for sure.
Had the extreme pleasure to be a indirect guest of Phil Lesh's to see 3 live free Dead shows at 3 different small venues in NYC Monday nite. First show I downloaded in FLAC off of etree I got was the third set. A two hr electric at the Roseland which was recorded HOT (high levels). This is a great example of when I would prefer the CV378 and its smoother top end. The EML just exposes the less then perfect recording while the CV378 smooth it out and makes it more enjoyable. I could live with either, but rather live with both as they will last longer sharing time.
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My TS rounds arrived today :thumb:, it's going to be another week or so until the adapters arrive. But I have to reiterate what a great combo the HW CV-378 + RCA cleartops is. My system has remained unchanged for a few weeks now so all tubes are fully broken in and they really are sounding sweet.
I pulled one of the cleartops today and took a look inside the transporter to see how close the caps are to the sockets, and sure enough one of them is tight up next to the front socket, so when the adapters get here I will have to do some filing/grinding. I wound up choosing to go with the the Taiwanese version because they are the most cost effective, and compact (no matter how much I would like to support Waynes efforts, the cost and extended height was just too much of a detractor for me). They are no longer the blue/orange johnnys that some of you guys have, but are now made in basic black. Not that it matters really, as they only seen when you install them. I had to wait a week or two for them to be back in stock, seems there was some kind of rush on them a few weeks back, and the supplier was cleaned out... :scratch: hmmm... I wonder what could have caused that. :wink:
Next step would be to get ahold of a EML to try out.
By the lack of activity in this thread I think we can assume that everybody is still happy with that combo, huh.
Anyone brave enough to shell out for the Swedish Standard 33S30's that Marco posted a pager or two ago? I see they have had at least one offer made on them :wink:
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My TS rounds arrived today :thumb:, it's going to be another week or so until the adapters arrive. But I have to reiterate what a great combo the HW CV-378 + RCA cleartops is. My system has remained unchanged for a few weeks now so all tubes are fully broken in and they really are sounding sweet.
I pulled one of the cleartops today and took a look inside the transporter to see how close the caps are to the sockets, and sure enough one of them is tight up next to the front socket, so when the adapters get here I will have to do some filing/grinding. I wound up choosing to go with the the Taiwanese version because they are the most cost effective, and compact (no matter how much I would like to support Waynes efforts, the cost and extended height was just too much of a detractor for me). They are no longer the blue/orange johnnys that some of you guys have, but are now made in basic black. Not that it matters really, as they only seen when you install them. I had to wait a week or two for them to be back in stock, seems there was some kind of rush on them a few weeks back, and the supplier was cleaned out... :scratch: hmmm... I wonder what could have caused that. :wink:
Next step would be to get ahold of a EML to try out.
By the lack of activity in this thread I think we can assume that everybody is still happy with that combo, huh.
Anyone brave enough to shell out for the Swedish Standard 33S30's that Marco posted a pager or two ago? I see they have had at least one offer made on them :wink:
Congratulations on scoring a pair of the Tung-Sol Round Plates. You will not reqret the purchase although the wallet probably seems a little lighter. Once you roll-in the Round Plates I think you will immediately hear why so many of us fell in love with these tubes.
I think the fast paced activity of this thread is probably coming to a close. It is surprising with the many different systems most of us have concluded that the EML 5U4G Rectifer or HW 378 Rectifier with the Tung Sol 6SN7 Round Plates are the best tubes for our ModWright Transporters. Anyone purchasing a unit from Dan today should just plan on buying one of these combinations because, frankly, they are just that good!
Some of us are searching for alternatives to the Round Plates by looking at 7N7's and other varities. To date the searches have not born fruit! The reason behind this is that the Round Plates are already expensive and the price will only continue to rise. NOS versions will become extinct. Stay tuned we will keep you posted if we strike gold!
Ken
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To date the searches have not born fruit!
Dude, you need to buy one of my shirts. (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/tube-audiophile-black-tshirt/48726127) :thumb: End shameless plug.
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To date the searches have not born fruit!
Dude, you need to buy one of my shirts. (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/tube-audiophile-black-tshirt/48726127) :thumb: End shameless plug.
Marco,
I'm digging the shirt design :thumb:. If that is your design and/or you have others, I would like to learn more. Maybe you could send a pm.
This reminds me of something though. I really like to share/show my interests (hobbies, music, etc) on shirts like these but really have grown tired of the traditional "Black" concert t-shirt color. I'm going to start a "group" thread on Facebook, and maybe here on AC, to join if you would like to see music/concert t-shirts in colors other than Black. Look for it this weekend.
Kenreau
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To date the searches have not born fruit!
Dude, you need to buy one of my shirts. (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/tube-audiophile-black-tshirt/48726127) :thumb: End shameless plug.
Marco,
I'm digging the shirt design :thumb:. If that is your design and/or you have others, I would like to learn more. Maybe you could send a pm.
This reminds me of something though. I really like to share/show my interests (hobbies, music, etc) on shirts like these but really have grown tired of the traditional "Black" concert t-shirt color. I'm going to start a "group" thread on Facebook, and maybe here on AC, to join if you would like to see music/concert t-shirts in colors other than Black. Look for it this weekend.
Kenreau
Thanks, Kenreau. Yes, that is my design. I only have one other (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/audiophilia-nervosa-ash-grey-tshirt/48718468) that may amuse you as far as Audiophile designs go. I plan on making a few more as they've actually both sold pretty well over the years. I can put the design on any color or style of shirt or item that is available on Cafe Press, including sweatshirts, baby clothing, throw pillows, and all sorts of very useful items :lol: If you want me to make either design available on something specific, just let me know. I need to get with Dan about the possibility of making some of my Modwright designs available here as I know some folks would enjoy them.
-
To date the searches have not born fruit!
Dude, you need to buy one of my shirts. (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/tube-audiophile-black-tshirt/48726127) :thumb: End shameless plug.
Marco,
I'm digging the shirt design :thumb:. If that is your design and/or you have others, I would like to learn more. Maybe you could send a pm.
This reminds me of something though. I really like to share/show my interests (hobbies, music, etc) on shirts like these but really have grown tired of the traditional "Black" concert t-shirt color. I'm going to start a "group" thread on Facebook, and maybe here on AC, to join if you would like to see music/concert t-shirts in colors other than Black. Look for it this weekend.
Kenreau
Thanks, Kenreau. Yes, that is my design. I only have one other (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/audiophilia-nervosa-ash-grey-tshirt/48718468) that may amuse you as far as Audiophile designs go. I plan on making a few more as they've actually both sold pretty well over the years. I can put the design on any color or style of shirt or item that is available on Cafe Press, including sweatshirts, baby clothing, throw pillows, and all sorts of very useful items :lol: If you want me to make either design available on something specific, just let me know. I need to get with Dan about the possibility of making some of my Modwright designs available here as I know some folks would enjoy them.
Excellent. I would also be very interested in a MWI logo shirt or two.
Btw, I just noticed your listening to "Vienna Tang". I'm in Portland and recently noticed she is performing here in the near future. I just recently picked up a couple of her cds and have enjoyed them so far.
Thanks again,
Kenreau
-
To date the searches have not born fruit!
Dude, you need to buy one of my shirts. (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/tube-audiophile-black-tshirt/48726127) :thumb: End shameless plug.
Marco,
I'm digging the shirt design :thumb:. If that is your design and/or you have others, I would like to learn more. Maybe you could send a pm.
This reminds me of something though. I really like to share/show my interests (hobbies, music, etc) on shirts like these but really have grown tired of the traditional "Black" concert t-shirt color. I'm going to start a "group" thread on Facebook, and maybe here on AC, to join if you would like to see music/concert t-shirts in colors other than Black. Look for it this weekend.
Kenreau
Thanks, Kenreau. Yes, that is my design. I only have one other (http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/audiophilia-nervosa-ash-grey-tshirt/48718468) that may amuse you as far as Audiophile designs go. I plan on making a few more as they've actually both sold pretty well over the years. I can put the design on any color or style of shirt or item that is available on Cafe Press, including sweatshirts, baby clothing, throw pillows, and all sorts of very useful items :lol: If you want me to make either design available on something specific, just let me know. I need to get with Dan about the possibility of making some of my Modwright designs available here as I know some folks would enjoy them.
Excellent. I would also be very interested in a MWI logo shirt or two.
Btw, I just noticed your listening to "Vienna Tang". I'm in Portland and recently noticed she is performing here in the near future. I just recently picked up a couple of her cds and have enjoyed them so far.
Thanks again,
Kenreau
I just heard back from Dan on this and he's given me his blessings to create products on CafePress with some of the designs I've created for his ads and promotional material customized to the specific product. The small profit from the products would go to me to compensate for the time it takes me to put that together, and it will NOT be financially be tied to MWI in any way. All designs would be Dan-approved before posting them. Rather than continuing to hijack the tube thread I will promise to begin another thread once I get that up and running. It does take some time, and I may not be able to get to it for a few weeks, but I'll get it done. PM me with any comments or requests, but please don't post additional comments here.
My apologies for the thread hijack, folks. :peek:
Yes, Vienna Tang's CD's are just beautifully recorded as well. I did know she was appearing in Portland, but I think I have a conflict around that date. If she decides to add a date in Seattle I'll try to catch her up here. Thanks for the heads up.
Back on topic; I recently scored a 1960's Mullard military GZ37 / CV378 from Kuhl tubes, for a forgiving price on eBay. It made for a very nice improvement over the TungSol 5U4 which I find a bit punchier in comparison. The CV378 does tend to soften the edges a bit, but does not seem to sacrifice detail in the process. I'm comparing them currently with RCA 6CG7 cleartops. This does make me wonder about the HW version - is it a huge improvement over the military version (tallboy)?
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My TS rounds arrived today :thumb:, it's going to be another week or so until the adapters arrive. But I have to reiterate what a great combo the HW CV-378 + RCA cleartops is. My system has remained unchanged for a few weeks now so all tubes are fully broken in and they really are sounding sweet.
I pulled one of the cleartops today and took a look inside the transporter to see how close the caps are to the sockets, and sure enough one of them is tight up next to the front socket, so when the adapters get here I will have to do some filing/grinding. I wound up choosing to go with the the Taiwanese version because they are the most cost effective, and compact (no matter how much I would like to support Waynes efforts, the cost and extended height was just too much of a detractor for me). They are no longer the blue/orange johnnys that some of you guys have, but are now made in basic black. Not that it matters really, as they only seen when you install them. I had to wait a week or two for them to be back in stock, seems there was some kind of rush on them a few weeks back, and the supplier was cleaned out... :scratch: hmmm... I wonder what could have caused that. :wink:
Next step would be to get ahold of a EML to try out.
By the lack of activity in this thread I think we can assume that everybody is still happy with that combo, huh.
Anyone brave enough to shell out for the Swedish Standard 33S30's that Marco posted a pager or two ago? I see they have had at least one offer made on them :wink:
Funkmonkey - My Tung Sols arrived today also. I stated a month or so that I was in love with the EML/RCA Cleartop combo. I can only say that love is blind! The EML/Tung Sol combination smokes EML/Cleartop combo. There is just no comparison. You are going to be very pleased when you receive your adaptors.
Mark
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Hey Marco,
Yes, I'm sorry to say there is a significant difference - in my experience - between the Mullard military GZ 37 (mine was not croyed for whatever that's worth) and the HW GZ37. While the former is very good (better than some Mullard 5AR4s in my Modwright Sony 9100), the latter has increased resolution, greater frequency extension and refinement, and a much larger soundstage.
As always, IMS, YMMV.
Rob
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Just wanted to report that adaptors arrived on monday, and rolled in the TS-Rounds... very nice. They are not burned in yet (only about ten hours on them) but the difference that they make is in all the right places. First thing that I noticed was a fleshier bottom end/more meaty bass. Not that they extend the range, they just ad a fair amount of heft over the RCA cleartops, especially in the low-mid bass region. Mids are a little more bloomy and full, but not overdone, I like what is going on here. The highs I am still undecided about, and hopefully will open up a little more as the tubes burn in...
Anybody know of a good cheap "second choice" 6SN7 that I should pick up for more casual listening? Something that does most of what the TungSols do, but doesn't cost nearly as much. I know it has been mentioned before but after a quick search back I couldn't find the post I was looking for...
Thanks guys, I am glad I took the 6SN7 pill. :thumb:
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Just wanted to report that adaptors arrived on monday, and rolled in the TS-Rounds... very nice. They are not burned in yet (only about ten hours on them) but the difference that they make is in all the right places. First thing that I noticed was a fleshier bottom end/more meaty bass. Not that they extend the range, they just ad a fair amount of heft over the RCA cleartops, especially in the low-mid bass region. Mids are a little more bloomy and full, but not overdone, I like what is going on here. The highs I am still undecided about, and hopefully will open up a little more as the tubes burn in...
Anybody know of a good cheap "second choice" 6SN7 that I should pick up for more casual listening? Something that does most of what the TungSols do, but doesn't cost nearly as much. I know it has been mentioned before but after a quick search back I couldn't find the post I was looking for...
Thanks guys, I am glad I took the 6SN7 pill. :thumb:
Two possible choices are the Ken-Rad and Raytheon VT-231's.
Both are significantly cheaper than the TungSol's and get you a good deal of the way there.
George
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Just wanted to report that adaptors arrived on monday, and rolled in the TS-Rounds... very nice. They are not burned in yet (only about ten hours on them) but the difference that they make is in all the right places. First thing that I noticed was a fleshier bottom end/more meaty bass. Not that they extend the range, they just ad a fair amount of heft over the RCA cleartops, especially in the low-mid bass region. Mids are a little more bloomy and full, but not overdone, I like what is going on here. The highs I am still undecided about, and hopefully will open up a little more as the tubes burn in...
Anybody know of a good cheap "second choice" 6SN7 that I should pick up for more casual listening? Something that does most of what the TungSols do, but doesn't cost nearly as much. I know it has been mentioned before but after a quick search back I couldn't find the post I was looking for...
Thanks guys, I am glad I took the 6SN7 pill. :thumb:
I've currently got a pair of Ken-Rad's on loan, and I'm very impressed with them. No time to do a critical AB with the Tung Sols, but I could certainly live with them as a permanent tube.
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Thanks guys, The Ken-Rad is the one that I was trying to remember. Any difference (sonically) between the clear & black glass versions of the Ken-Rad? I'll have to research the Raytheon a bit more. Any notes on the Sylvanias? They look cool if nothing else.
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Pair of Swedish Standard 22S22C / GZ34 Tubes NOS at $610 right now
with 24 minutes to top it... :icon_twisted:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320354092153&ssPageName=h:h:alt:3 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320354092153&ssPageName=h:h:alt:3)
EDIT: :o they sold for $890 for the pair!!!!! :o
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I have not tried the ken rads or rathyeons, and I like the TS alot more then the gray glass RCAs. But same RCAs are still very good as most in here will prob vouch
My fav non TS round tube (so far) is the Orange labeled clear glass Brimars. They are more detailed, and open then coated Brimar. TS are so far the King of resolution but give the musical nod to the Orange Brimars. Just easier to listen too.
Alot of these rare tubes like the swiss ones and B65's im sure sound great but the fact they are so rare is why your paying more, then anything else. (IMHO) Good example is the Orange brimars I prefer over coated are less expensive and not as rare.
I am negotiating for some Sylvania (not metal base) 6SN7Ws, supposedly called there answer to the TS rounds, and have recieved rave reviews as well. Also trying to get some rare Cossor 6SN7GTs both of these are half the price of TS rounds or lower. I will comment on those as well, eventually.
Definitely some good choices out there if your willing to search out and experiment.
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My fave non-TS round is the RCA VT-231 gray glass, but the silver labeled RCA is a close third. The gray glass cost me like $35 each incl shipping from Greece (they go for slightly more now), and the silver labels (not VT-231) around $30 each.
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Funkmonkey,
Paul L., good guy that sells lots of quality 6SN7's, tells me that there should be no difference between clear and black glass Ken Rad VT231's. I have a pair of each and can't tell the difference. This tube, along with the Raytheon 6SN7 are my second favorite after the TS; while I found the RCA gray glass very easy to listen to, I thought they gave up too much detail (and this coming from me, that prefers a warm sound).
Randy
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The Sylvania 6SN7W blk base are highly regarded but the metal base version is said to be best 6SN7 period. Ive just read comparisons from users and ratings from the sellers themselves. Black base people were flawed, but rolled against the metal and then they noticed a "sparkle from top to bottom"
There also 3x the price as the black base, I guess thats the goin rate for sparkle these days, but to rationalize it a lil maybe another 50 bux more then TS rounds but also more exotic with that chrome top and engraved metal base and pretty much everyone calling it the mac daddy of u.s. 6SN7 tubes.
Do they have a helpline for people who can't stop buying NOS tubes :lol:
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The Sylvania 6SN7W blk base are highly regarded but the metal base version is said to be best 6SN7 period. Ive just read comparisons from users and ratings from the sellers themselves. Black base people were flawed, but rolled against the metal and then they noticed a "sparkle from top to bottom"
There also 3x the price as the black base, I guess thats the goin rate for sparkle these days, but to rationalize it a lil maybe another 50 bux more then TS rounds but also more exotic with that chrome top and engraved metal base and pretty much everyone calling it the mac daddy of u.s. 6SN7 tubes.
Do they have a helpline for people who can't stop buying NOS tubes :lol:
I have a pair of Sylvania metal base 6SN7W tubes and while they are excellent, I still prefer the TungSol Roundplates. The TS tubes have a more organic and liquid sound while maintaining a slight edge on detail and texture. The 6SN7W's might have a small edge in the bass area.
Both a great tubes and both are very expensive.
For me personally, the few extra dollars on the TungSol tubes is worth it.
George
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Hi guys.
I recently discovered my speaker (and there was much rejoicing). I will be building a pair of Linkwitz Orions for myself and will be building a dedicated 2-ch setup for them. I am posting because when I auditioned the Orions I got a chance to A/B my MW TP with an SB3 to a Theta Va DAC and I really thought the sound was surprisingly similar. The Theta had the same organic quality that I have always associated to the tube stage in my TP. This was a pretty neat situation, listening to two DACs that have completely different design approaches but similar sound. I chalked it up to "good design is good design". At any rate, I am thinking once my Orions are built (which will probably be a few weeks at least) I might try the tube rolling thing to see if I can discern a real difference and mold the sound to something different or if the Orions just bludgeon the sound into their own footprint. If they do, I will be getting an SB3, lol. It looks like the Ken Rads or Raytheons is a good starting point for power tubes. What about Rectifier?
-Michael
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Hi guys.
I got a chance to A/B my MW TP with an SB3 to a Theta Va DAC and I really thought the sound was surprisingly similar. The Theta had the same organic quality that I have always associated to the tube stage in my TP. This was a pretty neat situation, listening to two DACs that have completely different design approaches but similar sound. I chalked it up to "good design is good design". <snip>
-Michael
On a similar note, I recently did an extended comparison session over at my friend's house. I'm very familiar with his room and system having spent many an evening listening there. He currently has one of the best systems I've heard, and it is very revealing of changes...intimately so. He was interested in hearing and comparing both the Transporter and my one-box 36.5 preamp to a few different contenders he'd been considering in his system. I don't have time for a long post on this so I'll try to be brief. We did strictly blind comparisons where one would do the setup while the other would leave the room for swapping. His system is in a custom built wall cabinet with easy access from the back via a separate small room so it made it very easy to do the swapping out. We used mostly digital files and discs for the TP comparison. We did one comparison adding an Einstein phono section into the linestages of each of the two preamps being compared. Bottom line was we both consistently preferred the sound of the MW TP over four different options (again, choosing this blind with several cuts of music we were each familiar with). The contenders there were an Empirical PaceCar + Empirical Modded Northstar DAC with i2s connection, the same PaceCar to an MHDT Havana DAC (better than the Northstar, believe it or not, but not as nice as the TP), and a Electrocompaniet EMC1-UP player (stock), both with and without Pacecar via SPDIF. The closest was the Havana DAC and Pacecar combo. The others just seemed to lack the natural feel of music that the TP presented, but the TP was a very clear winner. At the time I was using a non-HW Mullard GZ37 and RCA cleartops (I'm trying to imagine the difference with an EML in the mix). We did not change that throughout. Everything was thoroughly warmed up when comparing (we left anything that was unplugged from the system powered up and at idlle. That goes for preamps too. The 36.5 one-box preamp trounced the Lamm LL2 Deluxe with premium tubes (NOS Amperex and Mullard) - every time over and over we'd both pick the Modwright. The difference was very clear in his system. The MW had superior detail and soundstaging abilities and just presented the illusion of a real, palpable instrument in space. We began a comparison with a Hovland HP-100 which we both thought was closer. I picked out the Modwright definitively but not by a large margin in one set of comparisons (4 diverse cuts), while my friend chose the Hovland, but, like me, opining that it was so damn close and each had very nice qualities. Tubes in the one-box 36.5 were a Mullard 5AR4 and DR's (thank you David). My friend really wanted to try the Hovland comparo again as he felt ambivalent about his late-night Hovland impressions (I think it was getting on 2AM by that point). We could not repeat that test again as our time was cut short the next morning by a windstorm cutting the power for several hours stopping all testing for us and by then I had to leave. Had the 36.5 been a two-box it would have undoubtedly taken all the bacon by a very long shot. As it was, it was a clear winner for me and just short of that for my friend. The MW TP trumped all. He was very impressed. A damn fine showing for Dan, and for Alan's circuit in the 36.5! Someday I'll bring my KWA over to his place (when my back is feeling a bit stronger) - I think it would do really well there, but certainly would have some worthy opponents. I'm really enjoying that amp in my own system.
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Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA (http://"http://www.tubesusa.com/"). He said that the latest shipment arrived today. :thumb:
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Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA (http://"http://www.tubesusa.com/"). He said that the latest shipment arrived today. :thumb:
It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates? I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML. Am I mistaken?
:scratch:
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Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA (http://"http://www.tubesusa.com/"). He said that the latest shipment arrived today. :thumb:
It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates? I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML. Am I mistaken?
:scratch:
Marco,
Only one owner, Mr P, has posted a comparison of the mesh and solid plate EML 5U4G:
I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this afternoon. This activity was originally planned for yesterday afternoon, but a power outage due to high winds put that plan on hold. Just another reason to get off the grid.
During the comparison I used two songs I was very familiar with. The first was vocal/acoustic based, “Cry of a Tiny Baby” off the Columbia Records Radio Hour CD. The second was “New South Africa” off the Live Art CD by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. This song has a lot going on instrumentally.
To compare I listened to a song three times with the solid plate tube, changed to the mesh plate tube, let it warm up, listened to the same song two times, changed back to the solid plate, let it warm up and listened to the same song one more time. I did this for each of the two songs. My system had been playing for 90 minutes prior to starting. All tubes had >100 hours on them.
The differences in my system were subtle. The solid plate was a little more incisive/tighter with a touch more drive, most noticeable in the bass. The stage presentation with the mesh plate plate was slightly further back than with the solid plate, even with the front of my speakers instead of slightly in front of them. There were a couple of instances where I thought I heard a little more resolution with the mesh plate. That was about it. In my system these were not huge differences. For me the solid plate will be my main tube as my system is a little laid back at this time.
A couple of other notes. In my system the RCA Cleartops are magic with either the mesh plate or solid plate EM Lab 5U4G. While the 6N1Ps provided a little more resolution, there is no comparison in the tone and timbre areas. I have not tried the 6H30DRs and to be honest I’m in no hurry. This tube combination along with the Hyper-Drive mod has sent my system to new level. Also, the two 5U4Gs in series in my system was too much of a good thing. I experimented with putting one in the Transporter and one in my amplifier. While the sound was not bad, it was clearly better with just the one in the Transporter.
Disclaimer - Results are based on my system and YMMV in yours.
System = Transporter with Hyper Drive Mod - First Sound Presence Mk II Preamp - Yamamoto 300B SET amp - Zu Definition Pro Mk II Speakers
Let me know if you have any questions.
To date I believe most, if not all of us, have the mesh version.
Phil
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Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA (http://"http://www.tubesusa.com/"). He said that the latest shipment arrived today. :thumb:
It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates? I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML. Am I mistaken?
:scratch:
Marco,
Only one owner, Mr P, has posted a comparison of the mesh and solid plate EML 5U4G:
I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this after<big ass snip>
To date I believe most, if not all of us, have the mesh version.
Phil
Hey Phil - Thanks so much for posting that. I'd gone back over quite a few of the posted pages and had not located that post, but did read many others. My system is probably on the forward side, and my room is overly live, so I'm thinking mesh plate is the way to go for me. It's my birthday on tax day, so I'm going to treat myself and try one out.
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Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA (http://"http://www.tubesusa.com/"). He said that the latest shipment arrived today. :thumb:
It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates? I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML. Am I mistaken?
:scratch:
Marco,
Only one owner, Mr P, has posted a comparison of the mesh and solid plate EML 5U4G:
I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this after<big ass snip>
To date I believe most, if not all of us, have the mesh version.
Phil
Hey Phil - Thanks so much for posting that. I'd gone back over quite a few of the posted pages and had not located that post, but did read many others. My system is probably on the forward side, and my room is overly live, so I'm thinking mesh plate is the way to go for me. It's my birthday on tax day, so I'm going to treat myself and try one out.
It will be interesting to get your feedback on the EML Marco, a great birthday present.
I've celebrated finishing my personal and business taxes by buying a KWA 150 :thumb:
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It will be interesting to get your feedback on the EML Marco, a great birthday present.
I've celebrated finishing my personal and business taxes by buying a KWA 150 :thumb:
Wow, talk about your great gifts to one's self! Very nice - congrats, Phil. I look forward to hearing your impressions. I think you'll be very pleased. Mine has been breaking in quite nicely and I've been loving it more every day.
Funny about my B'day present: My wife is not entirely supportive or happy about my audio obsessions, in spite of her training as a musician. She asked for a clue as to what I wanted for my birthday and I told her that an EML 5u4g would be very nice. Her response (eyes rolling upwards) - "If you think I'm buying you one of those hundred dollar light bulbs you're dreaming!" So I'll be gifting myself this year and I think I'd better shred that receipt. :tempted:
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I was wondering - can the rectifier tubes effect the overall gain of the TP? I seem to hear a slight volume increase with the CV378 VS the EML. Am I imagining this? :scratch:
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It will be interesting to get your feedback on the EML Marco, a great birthday present.
I've celebrated finishing my personal and business taxes by buying a KWA 150 :thumb:
Wow, talk about your great gifts to one's self! Very nice - congrats, Phil. I look forward to hearing your impressions. I think you'll be very pleased. Mine has been breaking in quite nicely and I've been loving it more every day.
Funny about my B'day present: My wife is not entirely supportive or happy about my audio obsessions, in spite of her training as a musician. She asked for a clue as to what I wanted for my birthday and I told her that an EML 5u4g would be very nice. Her response (eyes rolling upwards) - "If you think I'm buying you one of those hundred dollar light bulbs you're dreaming!" So I'll be gifting myself this year and I think I'd better shred that receipt. :tempted:
Happy birthday, and Tax-day. I'm with you, Marco, on hiding receipts for the "hundred dollar light-bulbs" (actually more than 200 for this one). I think my wife has given up and just rolls her eyes when a package arrives. I could be mistaken too, but I thought that the mesh-plate was the hot tube... either way I have read some good things about mesh-plates (1930's(?) NOS and the current EML) that I would like to experience, so that was my choice. I want to try it paired with some Ken-Rad VT-231s, from what I have read about the sound of each tube they should make for a very nice pairing, and of course I want to hear it with the TS-rounds.
Speaking of which my Tung Sol Round plates have opened up nicely and getting closer to the 100-hour mark. Thanks for putting these tubes on the table.
Phil- that is great news about the KWA 150 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Congratz... you must have liked what you heard.
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Happy birthday, and Tax-day. I'm with you, Marco, on hiding receipts for the "hundred dollar light-bulbs" (actually more than 200 for this one). I think my wife has given up and just rolls here eyes when a package arrives. I could be mistaken too, but I thought that the mesh-plate was the hot tube... either way I have read some good things about mesh-plates (1930's(?) NOS and the current EML) that I would like to experience, so that was my choice. I want to try it paired with some Ken-Rad VT-231s, from what I have read about the sound of each tube they should make for a very nice pairing, and of course I want to hear it with the TS-rounds.
Speaking of which my Tung Sol Round plates have opened up nicely and getting closer to the 100-hour mark. Thanks for putting these tubes on the table.
Phil- that is great news about the KWA 150 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Congratz... you must have liked what you heard.
Thanks for the Bday wishes. Yeah, George and Phil both confirmed that most are getting the mesh so you're right on that. I guess I'd caught a few posts regarding folks using the solids and it stuck in my head. That and a healthy disregard for the sound of mesh 300B tubes I've heard. :dunno: :shake:
Hey Phil - I must have missed that detail...did you go to hear the KWA somewhere? If so, where and what were your impressions (besides the obvious)?
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I was wondering - can the rectifier tubes effect the overall gain of the TP? I seem to hear a slight volume increase with the CV378 VS the EML. Am I imagining this? :scratch:
Hmm, that's funny; I heard a volume gain with the EML over the CV378 in my MW Sony 9100. :scratch: :roll: :lol:
Happy Birthday, Marco! :birthday: :wine:
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I was wondering - can the rectifier tubes effect the overall gain of the TP? I seem to hear a slight volume increase with the CV378 VS the EML. Am I imagining this? :scratch:
Hmm, that's funny; I heard a volume gain with the EML over the CV378 in my MW Sony 9100. :scratch: :roll: :lol:
Happy Birthday, Marco! :birthday: :wine:
yeah, that is weird :o Anyone else care to comment?
Thanks
Tony
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Excuse the thread diversion - at least it's in the family!
I haven't heard the KWA 150 yet, my decision is based on feedback from owners, Dan and John. At the end of last year Dan helped me out by installing new caps in my current amp (Musical Fidelity KW500), and had the opportunity to AB it with the KWA. The feedback from Dan was 'I think you'll like the KWA', John was more direct with 'the KWA beats the c**p out of your amp'. With these two guys knowing my preferences, and credible, then it's a strong recommendation, reading between the lines I get the feeling that the KWA is a superb performer. I'll post in the KWA thread when it gets here!
Maybe we should start a 'How to get new gear past your spouse' thread?
I've used - I don't smoke, don't drink, don't have a girlfriend' approach, this failed with a 'it would be cheaper than hi-fi' response :duh:
Happy Easter everyone.
Happy Birthday to Marco.
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Happy Bday Marco--we share the 'tax day' BD! Folks can always remember our BD, but they usually add that they would have got me a gift, but have no $ since they just had to pay their taxes :cry:!!!
With consent/assistance of my lovely wife (i.e., funding the cost being a big part of my upcoming 50th BD), I will be putting a new pair of ebonized walnut Daedalus DA=RMa's in my setup soon, Lou's working on 'em now :D :D!!!
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I was wondering - can the rectifier tubes effect the overall gain of the TP? I seem to hear a slight volume increase with the CV378 VS the EML. Am I imagining this? :scratch:
Hmm, that's funny; I heard a volume gain with the EML over the CV378 in my MW Sony 9100. :scratch: :roll: :lol:
Happy Birthday, Marco! :birthday: :wine:
I'm with you rpf, I hear a gain with the EML over the CV378 fat bottle. And I also hear a gain with the TS round plates over every 6SN7 I've tried. 61NPs are even louder then the TS rounds but the latter blows them away IMO.
EML a over priced lightbulb , that is funny. I def prefer it over my CV378 fat bottle, I even find myself erasing lesser recordings and searching out better ones to compliment my EML. So IMO the EML is really more a WORTHWHILE "component" as it distinctly makes my system sound BETTER! I might even sell my CV378 for a solid plate EML since my fat bottle seems to get the boot more often then not.
Happy B-day guys, luv hearing about the toys you are getting, Lou's speakers and Dans new amp have def piqued my interest, look fwd to checking them both out when I can. :thumb:
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Happy Bday Marco--we share the 'tax day' BD! Folks can always remember our BD, but they usually add that they would have got me a gift, but have no $ since they just had to pay their taxes :cry:!!!
With consent/assistance of my lovely wife (i.e., funding the cost being a big part of my upcoming 50th BD), I will be putting a new pair of ebonized walnut Daedalus DA=RMa's in my setup soon, Lou's working on 'em now :D :D!!!
:birthday: :violin: :guitar: :drums: :beer: :banana piano: :dance:
Hey, happy birthday to you as well, my Aries friend! You're celebrating a big one this year - you've got one year on me as I'll hit the half-century mark next year. Many congrats on the new Daedulus.
Excuse the thread diversion - at least it's in the family!
I haven't heard the KWA 150 yet, my decision is based on feedback from owners, Dan and John. At the end of last year Dan helped me out by installing new caps in my current amp (Musical Fidelity KW500), and had the opportunity to AB it with the KWA. The feedback from Dan was 'I think you'll like the KWA', John was more direct with 'the KWA beats the c**p out of your amp'. With these two guys knowing my preferences, and credible, then it's a strong recommendation, reading between the lines I get the feeling that the KWA is a superb performer. I'll post in the KWA thread when it gets here!
Maybe we should start a 'How to get new gear past your spouse' thread?
I've used - I don't smoke, don't drink, don't have a girlfriend' approach, this failed with a 'it would be cheaper than hi-fi' response :duh:
Happy Easter everyone.
Happy Birthday to Marco.
Thanks, Phil. I've learned, over many years, way back to his 9.0 prototype, that Dan shares some pretty fundamental views on how a great system should sound. I hold his opinions in high regard so I expect, given what he and John said, you'll be very happy.
I haven't tried the same approach as I share the same lack of vices (though I do like my wine), but I don't think it would work in my case.
Happy easter to all.....now can someone explain to me what pink bunnies and chocolate eggs have to do with Christ rising up from the dead? That's a topic for another thread on another forum. Now y'all have to excuse me while I go hunt down those painted eggs and have myself some breakfast.I was wondering - can the rectifier tubes effect the overall gain of the TP? I seem to hear a slight volume increase with the CV378 VS the EML. Am I imagining this? :scratch:
Hmm, that's funny; I heard a volume gain with the EML over the CV378 in my MW Sony 9100. :scratch: :roll: :lol:
Happy Birthday, Marco! :birthday: :wine:
Thanks, for all the B'day wishes.....and finally back to the topic at hand (with apologies for the diversions) - I thought I was hearing a similar effect goin from a TS 5u4g over to a Non-MW CV378 in my TP. Just a slight boost in apparent gain. I'll have to try that swap out again and report back when I do.
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Hello Everybody,
All of the recent 5U4G Mesh orders will be shipped out Monday the 13th. We still have a few pieces left for anyone interested. They are going fast!
Best,
George
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Hello Everybody,
All of the recent 5U4G Mesh orders will be shipped out Monday the 13th. We still have a few pieces left for anyone interested. They are going fast!
Best,
George
I am interested George. Consider my order placed. Left you a message today
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Regarding the 9-pin to Octal adapters - Someone mentioned an inexpensive version that requires grinding down (any URL links to that to indicate cost/availability for that one)? Then there's Waynes beautifully made version specifically for the MWTP's holes. I assume from the post that Wayne's are significantly more expensive (understandable in that they're hand-made). Are there other options?
On another note - I've got a Kuhl tube Mullard CV378 GZ37 that I recently got from Canada. It is a 1960's military version, cryo'd by Kuhl tubes in Ontario. NOS with only about 20 hours on it. With the EML on its way I'm going to let this one go. PM me with a $ offer if anyone is interested in trying it out with their TP. I'll consider trades too (DR's or 5AR4 or 6SN7+$).
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can anyone comment on burnin time needed with the Hyper mod? Just wanting to see what others have experienced as far as how many hrs. were needed of if you even heard any difference with burnin. I had my Truth mod upgraded to the Hyper and have about 40 hrs on the Hyper mod.
Thanks
Tony
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Tony,
Like all of Dan's mods that use his capacitors and other hi-end parts, plan on 100 hrs until you start to hear changes, and 200 hours for a good 90% of the burn in. The remainder takes another 100 hrs or so, but is not as noticeable, and can be easily done during serious listening. I do the first 100 or so in repeat, off hours mode. All that being said, the hypermod is such a huge change, IMO, that you hear it in hour one, but the burn in times are still relevant.
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Tony,
Like all of Dan's mods that use his capacitors and other hi-end parts, plan on 100 hrs until you start to hear changes, and 200 hours for a good 90% of the burn in. The remainder takes another 100 hrs or so, but is not as noticeable, and can be easily done during serious listening. I do the first 100 or so in repeat, off hours mode.
Thanks Ted. I was thinking since the actual signal caps weren't replaced but just relocated it should be good to go - I have a ways to go ;)
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Tony,
Like all of Dan's mods that use his capacitors and other hi-end parts, plan on 100 hrs until you start to hear changes, and 200 hours for a good 90% of the burn in. The remainder takes another 100 hrs or so, but is not as noticeable, and can be easily done during serious listening. I do the first 100 or so in repeat, off hours mode.
Thanks Ted. I was thinking since the actual signal caps weren't replaced but just relocated it should be good to go - I have a ways to go ;)
You have a point, but the PS was so significantly changed that the burn in is still has a substantial effect.
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Tony,
I am curious as to what you're hearing and what your hoping for with break in.
I am in the midst of breaking in some changes to my 36.5+ and need some commiseration.
TIA
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I rarely post (although an avid follower), but thought I would give a "Thank You" to all the many contributors for the phenomenal improvements to my MW TP over the past month 8). Of course this is basically another confirmation of what others have found in terms of upgrades/tube rolling. A couple of months back I rolled the EML mesh tube into my system but rapidly removed based on the information provided here. Based on the initial listening impressions, I decided it was time to move to the platinum upgrade...I did not anticipate how bad the withdrawal was going to be while it was away :banghead: (although I did get a chance to revisit my SACD collection). If others have been sitting on the fence, I strongly recommend going ahead and sending it to Dan for the upgrade. In addition, while it was away, I placed orders for Wayne's octal adapters (if you are considering adapters, I strongly recommend these (Wayne is a great guy) along with a pair of 6SN7GT Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate tubes. Although I can't comment on how each individual upgrade/change improved my system, as I impatiently put everything in place after the TP arrived back safe and sound, I can state that after a week of listening I cannot believe the incredible detail/sound stage/musicality I am now hearing :dance: :dance: :dance:
I hope that everything is now in place for a long time to come as it is hard to imagine any additional significant improvements (although I will be rolling my HW GZ37 and EML for comparisons) but realize that is probably only possible if I stop reading this thread (but that would mean more withdrawal symptoms :lol: ).
Cheers
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I rarely post (although an avid follower), but thought I would give a "Thank You" to all the many contributors for the phenomenal improvements to my MW TP over the past month 8). Of course this is basically another confirmation of what others have found in terms of upgrades/tube rolling. A couple of months back I rolled the EML mesh tube into my system but rapidly removed based on the information provided here. Based on the initial listening impressions, I decided it was time to move to the platinum upgrade...I did not anticipate how bad the withdrawal was going to be while it was away :banghead: (although I did get a chance to revisit my SACD collection). If others have been sitting on the fence, I strongly recommend going ahead and sending it to Dan for the upgrade. In addition, while it was away, I placed orders for Wayne's octal adapters (if you are considering adapters, I strongly recommend these (Wayne is a great guy) along with a pair of 6SN7GT Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate tubes. Although I can't comment on how each individual upgrade/change improved my system, as I impatiently put everything in place after the TP arrived back safe and sound, I can state that after a week of listening I cannot believe the incredible detail/sound stage/musicality I am now hearing :dance: :dance: :dance:
I hope that everything is now in place for a long time to come as it is hard to imagine any additional significant improvements (although I will be rolling my HW GZ37 and EML for comparisons) but realize that is probably only possible if I stop reading this thread (but that would mean more withdrawal symptoms :lol: ).
Cheers
Hi Twodown, you've done what we all do and commited the cardinal sin of changing 3 variables at the same time with the Hyper-Drive, EML and 6SN7's! Well the good news is that, IMHO, all 3 individually are significant upgrades, I did them step by step and can give a :thumb: to each and every one. The only other tweak I've applied are the Herbie Tube dampers, which appear to tighten everything up a notch. Enjoy your TP.
Phil
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I completely agree with twodown.... I've recently received my Transporter back from Dan with the full Platinum mods and the improvements in weight, authority, detail and background quietness is very significant.... in fact, I don't know how else you could get that level of improvement in any other way for the same money..... which makes it a true bargain upgrade.
Due to the now solved capacitance issue, I've been trying various other rectifier tubes in place of the EML for the past couple of months.... assorted GZ34's, 32 and a 37. Although they all have their different strong points, I haven't been able to get happy overall.... it just wasn't working for me! Finally getting the EML mesh back in its place fixes all the issues.... it just sounds right and doesn't lack in any area. For me in my system, the EML has been confirmed as mandatory to get the best out of the Transporter.... its in another class as far as I'm concerned.
Talking about George at TubesUSA.... I've just done some other business with him and I would like to say again what a pleasure he is to deal with.... fantastic customer service, a true gentleman.
Cheers,
Mark
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Hi Twodown, you've done what we all do and commited the cardinal sin of changing 3 variables at the same time with the Hyper-Drive, EML and 6SN7's! Well the good news is that, IMHO, all 3 individually are significant upgrades, I did them step by step and can give a :thumb: to each and every one. The only other tweak I've applied are the Herbie Tube dampers, which appear to tighten everything up a notch. Enjoy your TP.
Phil
Thanks Phil....I'm very much enjoying the TP at this very moment 8). That's the great thing about this thread as somehow there seems to be some universal "truths" to the mods/tubes discussed here and it provides invaluable information for those that don't have the experience/knowledge, myself included . Rarely have I rolled a tube recommended here (including my LS 36.5) that I did not feel brought positive attributes and for the most part found a home in my system for some period of time (or find it's way back based on my listening mood) Thus, I was never concerned about simultaneously incorporating the EML, Hyper-Drive, 6SN7s, but I was surprised at how much my system improved. At least for the time being, I'm not wondering about any new upgrades/tubes/variations etc. and simply enjoying the music...very sweet :thumb:
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Just wanted to add my own feedback to the already plentiful EML 5U4G comments here :o :o :o :o :o :D :D :D My ohhhhh my! The difference in the bass is so significant that at the same volume I can see I'm going to have to bolt some things down upstairs....things in the room are rattling that were not rattling before at this volume. I'm still using cleartops, but will soon try some 6SN7's. The overall presentation is more lively and fuller sounding....vocals are more...well, fleshy...organic. Very nice overall. I'm listening at a lower volume, so it seems the EML give an illusion of more gain. It's brand new so not really burned in yet. What changes should I expect and over what time period? So, even as new, yet another trumpet call to the many accolades here...the difference in the bass is quite extraordinary.
I've nicknamed the monster rectifier, "John Holmes". Any other EML virgins have their innocence taken by the last shipment from George?
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I call my EML tube "Ted". 8)
Glad you're enjoying it. It's a great find!
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Welcome to the EML club Marco.
For the Brits amongst us we find the EML on the small size, relatively speaking aa
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Just wanted to add my own feedback to the already plentiful EML 5U4G comments here :o :o :o :o :o :D :D :D My ohhhhh my! The difference in the bass is so significant that at the same volume I can see I'm going to have to bolt some things down upstairs....things in the room are rattling that were not rattling before at this volume. I'm still using cleartops, but will soon try some 6SN7's. The overall presentation is more lively and fuller sounding....vocals are more...well, fleshy...organic. Very nice overall. I'm listening at a lower volume, so it seems the EML give an illusion of more gain. It's brand new so not really burned in yet. What changes should I expect and over what time period? So, even as new, yet another trumpet call to the many accolades here...the difference in the bass is quite extraordinary.
I've nicknamed the monster rectifier, "John Holmes". Any other EML virgins have their innocence taken by the last shipment from George?
If your EML is "John Holmes" then your 6SN7s are gonna be the BIGGER BALLS he needs to really rock out!
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Ok, just for all the Brits out there, then I shall have to design a preamp with Power Transmission TUBES. I have seen these things sized at 18" or longer and running at voltages high enough to turn the air around them to ozone. Surely even the brits out there would respect THAT!
For those lacking a sense of humor, no, there will NOT be a ModWright product built using KVolt powered Transmission tubes ;).
Thanks,
Dan
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I just got home to discover that the comparative nature of this thread has gotten the best of some of our more prominent members (pun fully intended). Just as I was reading about ol' "Ted", and British prowess, my dog, Cassius, took a big crunch out of his bully stick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_stick).
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Welcome to the EML club Marco.
For the Brits amongst us we find the EML on the small size, relatively speaking aa
What he said.... us Brits have always been 'legends in our own minds'.... seems to have worked quite well throughout history though...? :scratch:
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Hey folks - I just got a set of adapters from Jim Cross in Florida (Thanks to Rob for the recommendation!). He built them in a week and charges about $88/pair shipped with the extenders which are necessary to get them up above the otherwise too small holes in the TP. I'm currently listening with a pair of NOS KenRad 6SN7's (clear glass). It's certainly the most natural and relaxed presentation I've heard from the TP, even though it is significantly more forward sounding. Bass is boosted significantly from the 5u4g+cleartop combo, especially so with the 6SN7's in the mix. My EML and 22uf caps have only about 20 hours on them right now, so all comments should be taken in that context. My only 'complaint' thus far, if you could call it that, is that I'm hearing what I would describe as a lack of 'crispness' to leading edges. I can especially hear this with the pluck of a string or the thwack of a drum. It seems to have lost some of it's definition (and I'm being very critical here). It errs on the side of extreme naturalness of sound, which lends itself very nicely to vocals. Pardon the lack of audiophile vernacular.
I've got to say it again; this is an invaluable resource for MW TP owners. A huge 'John Holmes' thanks to those who've shared their experiences here. For those who haven't rolled the tubes in their TP take note - I really was not prepared for the profound difference it can make.
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Hey folks - I just got a set of adapters from Jim Cross in Florida (Thanks to Rob for the recommendation!). He built them in a week and charges about $88/pair shipped with the extenders which are necessary to get them up above the otherwise too small holes in the TP. I'm currently listening with a pair of NOS KenRad 6SN7's (clear glass). It's certainly the most natural and relaxed presentation I've heard from the TP, even though it is significantly more forward sounding. Bass is boosted significantly from the 5u4g+cleartop combo, especially so with the 6SN7's in the mix. My EML and 22uf caps have only about 20 hours on them right now, so all comments should be taken in that context. My only 'complaint' thus far, if you could call it that, is that I'm hearing what I would describe as a lack of 'crispness' to leading edges. I can especially hear this with the pluck of a string or the thwack of a drum. It seems to have lost some of it's definition (and I'm being very critical here). It errs on the side of extreme naturalness of sound, which lends itself very nicely to vocals. Pardon the lack of audiophile vernacular.
I've got to say it again; this is an invaluable resource for MW TP owners. A huge 'John Holmes' thanks to those who've shared their experiences here. For those who haven't rolled the tubes in their TP take note - I really was not prepared for the profound difference it can make.
Glad you like'em! Mine are working flawless as well. I actually felt I lost that crispness when I removed my EML and just Sold my fat bottle CV378 b/c it was just too round, not as dynamic in comparison. (all tube system mind you)
If you really want punch or crispness and its a great recording, the TS round are the cats meow. I also like the coated Brimars alot more then the RCA's as they are lush but at the same time don/t smear , just a more open sound.
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I HAVE the EML tube now and a beautiful set of Octal adaptors from Bolder Cable. I am breaking in the rectifier on a preamp right now, but will be evaluating the EML and 6SN7's in a Transporter soon! I will keep you all posted.
Thanks!
Dan
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I HAVE the EML tube now and a beautiful set of Octal adaptors from Bolder Cable. I am breaking in the rectifier on a preamp right now, but will be evaluating the EML and 6SN7's in a Transporter soon! I will keep you all posted.
Thanks!
Dan
Look out, Mr. Holmes is in 'da house! Makes sure to keep that bad boy pointing skyward, Dan, and let us know what you think. You know, once Holmes gives you rectification you ain't never goin' back. Which 6SN7's are you using to keep him company? They may be tall on those Boulder extenders, but they're still in the shadow of Holmes.
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I HAVE the EML tube now and a beautiful set of Octal adaptors from Bolder Cable. I am breaking in the rectifier on a preamp right now, but will be evaluating the EML and 6SN7's in a Transporter soon! I will keep you all posted.
Thanks!
Dan
It's about time you got with the program :lol: I'm sure John has been going crazy to hear the combo :wink:
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My EML is still in the cooker (≈50hrs and still breaking in), but I like what I am hearing so far. Definitely has some similar characteristics to the HW-CV378, but a more crisp, open and "live" top end. I am still waiting for my Ken-Rads to show up. :roll: Seems to be taking longer than the TS rounds I purchased from the same source. I hope they are okay, and arrive soon.
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Just an update on the adapters. I now have all parts in stock and I should be able to build them within one week of receiving an order.
I WILL finally be building a pair of adapters with Bybee Purifiers inside. They will be sent to a client, along with a pair of standard adapters, to test out.
His Transporter is on it's way to Dan's right now for the power supply regulator upgrade. I hope to hear about the comparison in about two weeks.
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Hi Wayne and thanks for the sample adaptors to evaluate - understood that these do not include the bybees. I am currently breaking in the EML 5U4G in a SWLP preamp and am waiting for my own transporter to return from AKfest before I can evaluate the EML and 6SN7's.
I WILL say however, that the EML tube is HUGE in both size, beauty AND sonics! I am playing vinyl now, into an SWLP with external tube supply, fitted with EML tube, driving our KWA 150 and the music is hard hitting and powerful. Amazing what a difference just a rectifier tube makes, but I have to say IT DOES!
Thanks,
Dan
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Dan, glad you finally got your hands on an EML.
In addition to having great sonic performance I consider it has additional attributes that make it even more MW customer attractive - it's available, reasonably priced, has a guarantee, its performance is consistent (as opposed to different NOS/used rectifiers with different performance characteristics, designs, life spans and variable metallurgy). Bottom line is that all MW owners can get their hands on a great sounding tube relatively easily.
Phil
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I know my EML Mesh hasn't left the MW Transporter since I got it--no desire to roll any of the other rectifiers back in!! In contrast, I've pulled out the TS round plates for some Raytheon 6sn7's for the time being--no, the Raytheon's aren't as good as the TS round plates, but just 'saving' the TS's for the time being.
I'm anxiously waiting for Lou to have my ebonized walnut DA-RMa's ready and shipped--then I'll put all the premium tubes back in when I get to listen to the new speakers aa!!!
Dan, do I recall correctly that you are getting or maybe already have a pair of ebonized walnut Ulysses?
Randy
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I still plan on trying the EML mesh plates in my two box 36.5.
I haven't bothered up to now as my 36.5 has had some recent reworking done to it and it still needs a few hours of break in. Once it's stable I plan on giving them a try.
Then I'll hopefully need to enlargenize the holes in the PSU. :duh:
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I still plan on trying the EML mesh plates in my two box 36.5.
I haven't bothered up to now as my 36.5 has had some recent reworking done to it and it still needs a few hours of break in. Once it's stable I plan on giving them a try.
Then I'll hopefully need to enlargenize the holes in the PSU. :duh:
+1 Same here. I need another EML, but am gonna try it.
"Enlargenize"...hmm, very nice. :)
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Ted, just tell me when you are ready :D Although you really need two more so you can run two in the 36.5 and one in the TP :o
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Ebonized Walnut Ulysses...OH YEAAAH! They are actually not quite done yet, but BOY are the cabinets beautiful. Lou is a TRUE master woodworker artisan as well as genius speaker designer. I chose the ebonized walnut because it will complement our espresso brown concrete polished floors and chocolate brown italian leather couch in the listening room.
I am quite excited about getting them!
We will be using a pair of DA-RMa's at RMAF '09. I feel that there is a terrific synergy with our amp and it is a brillian combination.
Thanks,
Dan
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Dan,
From the pics, I thought Lou's ebonized walnut finish was just beautiful. Also think it will let the DA-RMa's look great in my music room also, I have an 'antiqued' (sp?) black equipment cabinet that has gold & brown accents, then dark wood floors (with appropriate rug treatment of course :D) and chocolate brown couch and listening chair/recliner.
I will be driving the DA-RMa's with my Cary SLI-80 all tetrode, with the bottom end augmented as necessary with a REL Strata III sub. I keep trying to stop myself from reading the reviews/reports on your new amp--can't afford to even be tempted right now!!
Like a kid waiting for Christmas at this point :P!!
Randy
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Cool man! I too am excited!
Dan
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I have now had my turbo mod in place for a couple of weeks, and let it run for >150 hours. I started listening with the EML and round plate tung sols this afternoon. Since the transporter was out of my system for a while while Dan was upgrading, I am working from memory, but I was not thrilled with the sound. It seemed to have lost some of the texture and depth that I felt my system had before. I pulled the tung sol 6sn7s out and put in a brand new pair of old raytheon 6sn7wgts that I have been "hoarding" for a while but not managed to put in because I liked the tung sols so much with the previous set up.
I immediately noticed more texture, and depth in the music. It just seemed more 3D and with voices popping out, percussion and finger snaps being more dimensional, and a generally more pleasing, more musical sound. These are pretty much first impressions, and the raytheon tubes still need to break in. For some reason, the tungsols seemed a little to bright and analytical for my system with the new turbo mod. So far I've auditioned, Cassandra Wilson (The Weight, Harvest Moon), Ray Charles Duets (Fever, w/ Natalie Cole), Van Morrison (Crazy Love).
I am curious if anyone else has had a similiar experience....everyone else seems to have really liked the tungsols after the power supply upgrade.
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I have now had my turbo mod in place for a couple of weeks, and let it run for >150 hours. I started listening with the EML and round plate tung sols this afternoon. Since the transporter was out of my system for a while while Dan was upgrading, I am working from memory, but I was not thrilled with the sound. It seemed to have lost some of the texture and depth that I felt my system had before. I pulled the tung sol 6sn7s out and put in a brand new pair of old raytheon 6sn7wgts that I have been "hoarding" for a while but not managed to put in because I liked the tung sols so much with the previous set up.
I immediately noticed more texture, and depth in the music. It just seemed more 3D and with voices popping out, percussion and finger snaps being more dimensional, and a generally more pleasing, more musical sound. These are pretty much first impressions, and the raytheon tubes still need to break in. For some reason, the tungsols seemed a little to bright and analytical for my system with the new turbo mod. So far I've auditioned, Cassandra Wilson (The Weight, Harvest Moon), Ray Charles Duets (Fever, w/ Natalie Cole), Van Morrison (Crazy Love).
I am curious if anyone else has had a similiar experience....everyone else seems to have really liked the tungsols after the power supply upgrade.
Mike,
Bright and analytical have never been adjectives I have heard used to describe the Tung-Sol Black Glass roundplates.
I am pretty sure Phil, Ted, David, and others are still loving the Tung-Sol tubes after getting the turbo or hyper mod. I should be able to let you know soon from personal experience.
I just turned a friend onto the Modwright TP and even though it is only a week or so old, he feels that with the Tung-Sol tubes it is by far the best digital setup he has had. He likes a very organic sound and definitely dislikes an analytical or bright sound.
BTW, the Raytheon tubes are no slouches and can certainly sound very good.
George
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Mike,
I'm trying a pair of Brimar 6sn7's and find them to be very close to the TS round plates, with maybe a touch more warmth/sweetness, so that might be something you want to try. As my amp also uses a pair of 6sn7's as drivers, and I've found the tubes in that position have quite an effect on my sound, I'm kind of switching the Brimars and TS round plates back and forth between that spot and the MW Transporter. I find the Ken Rad VT231's warm of the sound signficantly, but at some loss of detail and also just not quite as 'musical' for lack of a better descriptive term.
Dan, just got my Daedalus DA-RMa's from Lou today and got 'em hooked up and singing. Asthetically (of course I'm biased since this is what I picked/bought) the ebonized walnut is stunning :drool:. And although Lou tells me they will sound even better after another 70-100 hours, after the 1st hour or so, I'm really pleased with the sound!!!
Best,
Randy
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I have now had my turbo mod in place for a couple of weeks, and let it run for >150 hours. I started listening with the EML and round plate tung sols this afternoon. Since the transporter was out of my system for a while while Dan was upgrading, I am working from memory, but I was not thrilled with the sound. It seemed to have lost some of the texture and depth that I felt my system had before. I pulled the tung sol 6sn7s out and put in a brand new pair of old raytheon 6sn7wgts that I have been "hoarding" for a while but not managed to put in because I liked the tung sols so much with the previous set up.
I immediately noticed more texture, and depth in the music. It just seemed more 3D and with voices popping out, percussion and finger snaps being more dimensional, and a generally more pleasing, more musical sound. These are pretty much first impressions, and the raytheon tubes still need to break in. For some reason, the tungsols seemed a little to bright and analytical for my system with the new turbo mod. So far I've auditioned, Cassandra Wilson (The Weight, Harvest Moon), Ray Charles Duets (Fever, w/ Natalie Cole), Van Morrison (Crazy Love).
I am curious if anyone else has had a similiar experience....everyone else seems to have really liked the tungsols after the power supply upgrade.
I have had a similar experience to yours in my system. I have had the EML and Tung Sols in my Modwright TP for about two weeks. I thought initially that something was wrong because I found myself going back to vinyl more and more where before the power supply update, I had shifted to 80% digital. On Saturday I finally pulled the tubes and went back to my BEL GZ34 and the Sylvania 6CG7's. All I can say is that is in my system, this is still the best combination for me. I am sure it has to do with system synergy but this combination has bested every other in my Transporter. YMMV.
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My amp uses 6 6sn7 tubes (BAT VK75SE) and this is what got me hooked on the raytheons. Yesterday, I popped a couple of KenRads that I rotated out of my amp. I agree that they added some warmth with a concomitant loss of some detail. I ended up putting the Raytheons back in and will let them break in for a while and then reevaluate. I suppose I could also go back and try some other 5u4 variants or my metal base GZ34. So many tubes....so little time :)
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My amp uses 6 6sn7 tubes (BAT VK75SE) and this is what got me hooked on the raytheons. Yesterday, I popped a couple of KenRads that I rotated out of my amp. I agree that they added some warmth with a concomitant loss of some detail. I ended up putting the Raytheons back in and will let them break in for a while and then reevaluate. I suppose I could also go back and try some other 5u4 variants or my metal base GZ34. So many tubes....so little time :)
I thought the SE version of the BAT amp uses 6H30's? My understanding was the non-SE versions use the 6SN7's. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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As I posted earlier in this thread (wow, like 20 pages ago :) ) I think the hypermod ps upgrade made my TP have much more body/weight/substance at the midrange frequencies (especially), and although I never heard the EML/TS round plate combo before the upgrade, they certainly set the standard after it. I didn't find them "too much" at all...I did find the DR's too much though.
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My amp uses 6 6sn7 tubes (BAT VK75SE) and this is what got me hooked on the raytheons. Yesterday, I popped a couple of KenRads that I rotated out of my amp. I agree that they added some warmth with a concomitant loss of some detail. I ended up putting the Raytheons back in and will let them break in for a while and then reevaluate. I suppose I could also go back and try some other 5u4 variants or my metal base GZ34. So many tubes....so little time :)
I thought the SE version of the BAT amp uses 6H30's? My understanding was the non-SE versions use the 6SN7's. Please correct me if I am wrong.
That's my understanding as well, and stated on BAT site. Mike must have meant the non-SE?
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I have now had my turbo mod in place for a couple of weeks, and let it run for >150 hours. I started listening with the EML and round plate tung sols this afternoon. Since the transporter was out of my system for a while while Dan was upgrading, I am working from memory, but I was not thrilled with the sound. It seemed to have lost some of the texture and depth that I felt my system had before. I pulled the tung sol 6sn7s out and put in a brand new pair of old raytheon 6sn7wgts that I have been "hoarding" for a while but not managed to put in because I liked the tung sols so much with the previous set up.
I immediately noticed more texture, and depth in the music. It just seemed more 3D and with voices popping out, percussion and finger snaps being more dimensional, and a generally more pleasing, more musical sound. These are pretty much first impressions, and the raytheon tubes still need to break in. For some reason, the tungsols seemed a little to bright and analytical for my system with the new turbo mod. So far I've auditioned, Cassandra Wilson (The Weight, Harvest Moon), Ray Charles Duets (Fever, w/ Natalie Cole), Van Morrison (Crazy Love).
I am curious if anyone else has had a similiar experience....everyone else seems to have really liked the tungsols after the power supply upgrade.
mikel51, I had my TP upgraded so I could use the EML. When I first got it back I absolutely hated how it sounded. It was really closed in and lifeless. I didn't think it would need the amount of burnin that it ended up taking. About 300 hrs later it opened up like crazy and now I'm very happy. It's so much quieter than before - no more electronic hash imposed on the music - just dead quiet and even more revealing along with everything that you stated. Just be patient and it WILL get much better ;) I'm using the EML and Sylvania Gold Brand 6SN7 WGT's. My sound has NEVER been better! :icon_lol:
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My amp uses 6 6sn7 tubes (BAT VK75SE) and this is what got me hooked on the raytheons. Yesterday, I popped a couple of KenRads that I rotated out of my amp. I agree that they added some warmth with a concomitant loss of some detail. I ended up putting the Raytheons back in and will let them break in for a while and then reevaluate. I suppose I could also go back and try some other 5u4 variants or my metal base GZ34. So many tubes....so little time :)
I thought the SE version of the BAT amp uses 6H30's? My understanding was the non-SE versions use the 6SN7's. Please correct me if I am wrong.
That's my understanding as well, and stated on BAT site. Mike must have meant the non-SE?
The VK75SE uses 2--6V6 tubes (my faves are the Pope), 2--6H30 tubes (NOS DRs of course), 6--6SN7 tubes (I like the Raytheons the best of all I've tried, but am not quite up for trying 6 tung sol round plates) and 4--6C33 tubes (matched from Parts Connexion with their recent tube tester for 6C33).
The non-SE uses 8--6SN7 tubes and 4--6C33 tubes.
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Ah... :duh: Thanks Mike
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I have now had my turbo mod in place for a couple of weeks, and let it run for >150 hours. I started listening with the EML and round plate tung sols this afternoon. Since the transporter was out of my system for a while while Dan was upgrading, I am working from memory, but I was not thrilled with the sound. It seemed to have lost some of the texture and depth that I felt my system had before. I pulled the tung sol 6sn7s out and put in a brand new pair of old raytheon 6sn7wgts that I have been "hoarding" for a while but not managed to put in because I liked the tung sols so much with the previous set up.
I immediately noticed more texture, and depth in the music. It just seemed more 3D and with voices popping out, percussion and finger snaps being more dimensional, and a generally more pleasing, more musical sound. These are pretty much first impressions, and the raytheon tubes still need to break in. For some reason, the tungsols seemed a little to bright and analytical for my system with the new turbo mod. So far I've auditioned, Cassandra Wilson (The Weight, Harvest Moon), Ray Charles Duets (Fever, w/ Natalie Cole), Van Morrison (Crazy Love).
I am curious if anyone else has had a similiar experience....everyone else seems to have really liked the tungsols after the power supply upgrade.
mikel51, I had my TP upgraded so I could use the EML. When I first got it back I absolutely hated how it sounded. It was really closed in and lifeless. I didn't think it would need the amount of burnin that it ended up taking. About 300 hrs later it opened up like crazy and now I'm very happy. It's so much quieter than before - no more electronic hash imposed on the music - just dead quiet and even more revealing along with everything that you stated. Just be patient and it WILL get much better ;) I'm using the EML and Sylvania Gold Brand 6SN7 WGT's. My sound had NEVER been better! :icon_lol:
Well, I'll let it run for a few more weeks and then try tube rolling again. Next weekend when I get back from a business trip, it should have between 250 and 300 hours.
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I have now had my turbo mod in place for a couple of weeks, and let it run for >150 hours. I started listening with the EML and round plate tung sols this afternoon. Since the transporter was out of my system for a while while Dan was upgrading, I am working from memory, but I was not thrilled with the sound. It seemed to have lost some of the texture and depth that I felt my system had before. I pulled the tung sol 6sn7s out and put in a brand new pair of old raytheon 6sn7wgts that I have been "hoarding" for a while but not managed to put in because I liked the tung sols so much with the previous set up.
I immediately noticed more texture, and depth in the music. It just seemed more 3D and with voices popping out, percussion and finger snaps being more dimensional, and a generally more pleasing, more musical sound. These are pretty much first impressions, and the raytheon tubes still need to break in. For some reason, the tungsols seemed a little to bright and analytical for my system with the new turbo mod. So far I've auditioned, Cassandra Wilson (The Weight, Harvest Moon), Ray Charles Duets (Fever, w/ Natalie Cole), Van Morrison (Crazy Love).
I am curious if anyone else has had a similiar experience....everyone else seems to have really liked the tungsols after the power supply upgrade.
Mike,
Bright and analytical have never been adjectives I have heard used to describe the Tung-Sol Black Glass roundplates.
I am pretty sure Phil, Ted, David, and others are still loving the Tung-Sol tubes after getting the turbo or hyper mod. I should be able to let you know soon from personal experience.
I just turned a friend onto the Modwright TP and even though it is only a week or so old, he feels that with the Tung-Sol tubes it is by far the best digital setup he has had. He likes a very organic sound and definitely dislikes an analytical or bright sound.
BTW, the Raytheon tubes are no slouches and can certainly sound very good.
George
I'm not sure I can add anymore to this - I bought my EML after the Hyper Drive mod and still find it a match made in heaven with the TP. I jumped straight in at the deep end with 6SN7's and bought the Tung Sols, I have a loan pair of Ken-Rads and new production Tung Sols for burn in purposes. The 3 pairs of 6SN7's all share the same family sonic traits - but the NOS round plates, plus EML, are the best combination in my system. Based on my limited experience, and feedback from others, I get the view that most of the old 6SN7's are capable of delivering great performance.
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Jury's still out for me. I've been listening to the EML + Ken-Rad vt-231's for a couple of weeks now and agree that there is some detail lost compared to the TS-rounds in the upper-mids or lower trebel, but not all that much. I like the added warmth and the mid bass with the Ken-Rads, though the TS-rounds are not far behind there and I miss the midrange sweetness of the TS-rounds. I think the EML and Ken-Rads balance each other out rather well. I have yet to roll back in the TS-rounds and the HW CV-378 (love that combo) to really nail down a solid preference, but I could be, and am, happy with any/all of them. The Bell tube is intriguing and wonder about that one more for my 36.5 than for the TP (and if the top will close on the 36.5 (the Bell looks to be a little bit taller than a GZ-34). Nice to see a bit of action back on this thread.
Cheers,
Greg
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I am using the RCA/Sylvania fat tube, which is slightly taller than the GZ34s, with the cover closed by adding a strip of damping material similar to the one used on the unit on both sides under the cover and using thumb screws (longer than the ones came with the unit) bought from Lowes to secure the cover.
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If any of you are having second thoughts about the EML in the hyperdrive-upgraded TP, lemme know. I need one more for my dual mono PS 36.5 (borrowing my second one right now). I'll buy one off ya! :thumb: PM me (although not sure PM works..my email is "tedmbrady-at-ameritech-dot-net"). Thanks
Ted
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I've only been able to find one mention of this on this thread (I think by BigFish), but no input on the results: Has anyone tried using 7N7 tubes with the appropriate L-Ocatal adapter (available on eBay or from Jim Cross)? Way cheaper than 6SN7's and identical in construction as I understand it. Dan gave them a thumbs up, but no input here....anyone try them?
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I've only been able to find one mention of this on this thread (I think by BigFish), but no input on the results: Has anyone tried using 7SN7 tubes with the appropriate L-Ocatal adapter (available on eBay or from Jim Cross)? Way cheaper than 6SN7's and identical in construction as I understand it. Dan gave them a thumbs up, but no input here....anyone try them?
I've tried them Marco - 7N7's, and they are a good lower cost alternative to 6SN7's. They are difficult to find in quantity and the cost of the adapter mitigates the lower tube cost benefits if you've already invested in 6SN7 adapters.
My fellow Brit - owenmd - has my adapters and has a few tubes he's playing with currently, I'll let Mark comment on his findings.
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I've only been able to find one mention of this on this thread (I think by BigFish), but no input on the results: Has anyone tried using 7SN7 tubes with the appropriate L-Ocatal adapter (available on eBay or from Jim Cross)? Way cheaper than 6SN7's and identical in construction as I understand it. Dan gave them a thumbs up, but no input here....anyone try them?
I've tried them Marco - 7N7's, and they are a good lower cost alternative to 6SN7's. They are difficult to find in quantity and the cost of the adapter mitigates the lower tube cost benefits if you've already invested in 6SN7 adapters.
My fellow Brit - owenmd - has my adapters and has a few tubes he's playing with currently, I'll let Mark comment on his findings.
Thanks. The adapters are $38+shipping (assuming you already have a 6SN7 adapter) on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/7N7-to-6SN7-Tube-Adaptor-pair_W0QQitemZ220405871999QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item335136b57f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50). Current eBay listing average around $10-20 per tube with the high priced ones being from the Greek connection (John - Lowbander80) at $79 a pair for NOS Sylvanias. Compared to $300-400 for TS Rounds that would seem to make the $40 for the adapter a moot point. But if they are simply an OK substitute and don't have the sonic chops then I guess I get your point.
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Hi Marco,
As Phil mentioned, I'm currently assessing some 7N7's using Phil's 7N7 to 6cg7 adapters from Taiwan.... they are currently out of stock of this adapter but more will be coming soon apparently. The other type 7N7 adapters to 6sn7 would obviously necessitate two adapters in place per tube.... not sure if I like that... I guess it would be fine...?
I have just a few hours on four different types of 7N7's including some tall bottles so its really too early to tell, but some of them appear to sound better than the average ($120/pr) 6sn7's I've tried. I don't have the Tung Sol 6sn7 round plates as a reference, so can only compare between the ones I have. The 7n7's I'm trying average $60 to $70 a matched pair from Vintage tube services.
Once I get a handle on the results I will comment more.
Cheers for the weekend...!
Mark
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Thanks, Mark. The 7N7 route sounds like it has some potential. I doubt that piggybacking adapters would be of any detriment to signal quality, but it may make the resulting adapter a bit awkward. I'm pretty sure the lower portion of the Bolder adapters are an extension (to bring the adapter out of the box) that amounts to something similar to piggybacking two adapters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that way. I have adapters from Jim Cross in FL, and that is how his are built. He can also make L-Octal adapters for around $75/pair I think. He took a week to make my octal adapters at the same cost.
The Taiwan adapters appear to require, or may require, pulling off the cover to get them out, which is a PITA in my cabinet. Am I wrong there - do they come out easily with the tube, or are they left down in the box when you pull the tube?
I look forward to hearing about your results, Mark. My friend, Peter, has ordered a MW TP for his system after I brought mine over to his place and did a series of blind tests with him. He's thinking of trying 7n7's as a reasonably priced alternative.
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I can't speak for everyone with the Taiwan adapters but mine stay with the fat pins on the 6SN7s. No problem removing them, cover stays closed.
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The Taiwan adapters appear to require, or may require, pulling off the cover to get them out, which is a PITA in my cabinet. Am I wrong there - do they come out easily with the tube, or are they left down in the box when you pull the tube?
No problem with either the 6SN7 Taiwanese adapters or the 7N7's.... they stay firmly attached to the tubes.
A quick note about 7N7's.... although they can be found quite cheaply on places like Ebay, apparently they are notorious for microphonics and other issues. It may be worth paying the extra to get a guaranteed pair if you have an interest... Andy at tube services reckons he will be lucky to get a 50% usable yield from his stock of 7N7's...!
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If I've got this right, the Taiwanese adaptors site on top of the 6sn7 adaptors, and therefore shouldn't raise the issue of having to remove the top of the TP to get at them. I wonder about adding an extra set of contacts to the chain - my sense is that it's better not too. But as Marco points out, the 6sn7 adaptors already sit on small 9-pin risers to gain clearance over a capacitor that sits close to the stock tube sockets, so that already puts us one step farther out. Anybody know if those risers are necessary? There are other direct 7n7-9pin adaptors available, but they don't have the "riser" off the 9 pin, and I don't know if they would fit on the stock TP socket: http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapters-7N7-TO-12au7-tubes-amplifier-SUB_W0QQitemZ250428140305QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item3a4eae2b11&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapters-7N7-TO-12au7-tubes-amplifier-SUB_W0QQitemZ250428140305QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item3a4eae2b11&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
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If I've got this right, the Taiwanese adaptors site on top of the 6sn7 adaptors, and therefore shouldn't raise the issue of having to remove the top of the TP to get at them. I wonder about adding an extra set of contacts to the chain - my sense is that it's better not too. But as Marco points out, the 6sn7 adaptors already sit on small 9-pin risers to gain clearance over a capacitor that sits close to the stock tube sockets, so that already puts us one step farther out. Anybody know if those risers are necessary? There are other direct 7n7-9pin adaptors available, but they don't have the "riser" off the 9 pin, and I don't know if they would fit on the stock TP socket: http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapters-7N7-TO-12au7-tubes-amplifier-SUB_W0QQitemZ250428140305QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item3a4eae2b11&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapters-7N7-TO-12au7-tubes-amplifier-SUB_W0QQitemZ250428140305QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item3a4eae2b11&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
Peter, I believe these adapters may not work. I bought the 7N7 to 6CG7 adapters from this seller (he always quotes the adapters the wrong way for me as I would expect them to be called 6CG7 to 7N7), and currently the seller has told owenmd he's waiting for new stock of these. I was going to piggy back a 7N7 adapter on top of a 6SN7 adapter but was advised not to do it by JG2, even though they would work it avoids another contact as you mention. I had no problem getting the 7N7 adapters to fit around the caps.
Phil
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I had no problem getting the 7N7 adapters to fit around the caps.
Phil - do you mean that you had no problem getting the 9pin to 7N7 adaptors to fit around the caps? The ones associated with my link? If they do fit in, why would they not work? I agree that the 6SN7 to 7N7 adaptors are not optimal since they add another connection.
Thanks, Peter
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Oh, and the second part of my question, I guess, is whether the 9pin "risers" on JC's 9pin to 6sn7 adaptors are necessary, regarding clearance of that capacitor, and whether they can be removed. Thanks in advance to anyone who knows about that.
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Oh, and the second part of my question, I guess, is whether the 9pin "risers" on JC's 9pin to 6sn7 adaptors are necessary, regarding clearance of that capacitor, and whether they can be removed. Thanks in advance to anyone who knows about that.
Hey Peter - I think Dan has been mounting those caps on the back of the board since folks have been using the adapters more and more. Since you are getting a current one, they should be on the back and not interfere. You can shoot Dan an email to confirm that, or perhaps he'll chime in here, but that's how mine came back after the Hypermod. I was under the impression that the low adapters might stay in the socket when the tube is pulled, which is the question I was asking - and it seems that it comes out with the tube. Therefore the Taiwan adapters could be another option for you (available on eBay and usually take a week). The 7N7 adapters I saw on eBay are from an NC seller - they these ones (http://cgi.ebay.com/7N7-to-6SN7-Tube-Adaptor-pair_W0QQitemZ220424582988QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item335254374c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50) which would piggyback on another adapter. You may also want to ask Roger, the guy who works on tube gear locally, to see if he might make an adapter for you. I bet he would.
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I had no problem getting the 7N7 adapters to fit around the caps.
Phil - do you mean that you had no problem getting the 9pin to 7N7 adaptors to fit around the caps? The ones associated with my link? If they do fit in, why would they not work? I agree that the 6SN7 to 7N7 adaptors are not optimal since they add another connection.
Thanks, Peter
Hi Peter, the ebay seller has a specific 7N7/6CG7 adapter and also a 7N7/12au7 adapter I would play safe on assuming the 7N7/12au7 would work. Also, as the seller has advised Mark that he does not currently have a 7N7/6CG7 adapter in stock, then I would believe he would have offered the 7N7/12au7 adapter as an alternative? On this basis my asumption is that the pin layouts may be different, even though both are 9 pin. Before buying the 7N7/12au7 adapter I would clarify its suitability with Dan.
Following on from Marco's reply on the capacitor/adapter fit - even if you have an older TP with the caps on the top it is still possible to shave off part of the adapter if you need to in order to create additional clearance.
Phil
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What he said....! :?
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On this basis my asumption is that the pin layouts may be different, even though both are 9 pin. Before buying the 7N7/12au7 adapter I would clarify its suitability with Dan.
On my BK707 tube tester the 9-pin socket to test 6cg7 and 12au7 tubes is the same socket. So certainly the pin layout is identical.
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Marco is correct. All the new TP mods and any that are in for Hyper upgrades have the caps moved to the underside of the board to allow proper clearance for the adapters.
If the 12AU7 / 6CG7 pinout is identical, as indicated on my B&K tester as well, the 12AU7 to 7N7 adapters should work.
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There is a minor difference between the pin outs of the 6CG7 (EIA Base 9AJ) and the 12AU7 (EIA Base 9A).
That has to do with how pin 9 is used. In the 6CG7 series pin 9 is not used at all. In the 12AU7 series, pin 9 is the filament center tap. This can be used so the heater can be run from either 12.6 v or 6.3 V.
The adapters I build do not use extenders. They are hard wired, using my Nitro wire, from the pins of the 9 pin male to the sockets of the octal base.
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Here is a tube pinout reference page that opens in a PDF :
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bustedgear.com%2Fres_Tube_pinouts.pdf&ei=foEhSsemOKWKtAPuq6j5Aw&usg=AFQjCNFT6ANlaeG06ZYqsAh1438WQWytzA&sig2=r1DMmURlSI0zIX6xpzdS_g
As Wayne mentioned, The only difference between the pinout of the 12AU7 and 6CG7 is pin 9. The 6CG7 has NC and the 12AU7 is heater common.
Thanks, Wayne!
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The adapters I build do not use extenders. They are hard wired, using my Nitro wire, from the pins of the 9 pin male to the sockets of the octal base.
Thanks for that correction, Wayne.
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Pin 9 of the transporter is tied to shield ground, not signal ground, although all grounds are utlimately star-grounded together. This is because the 6H30 and 6N1P use this pin connected to an internal shield between the triodes.
This might lead one to believe then that a 12xx series tube could be used, because this pin is grounded, but because the circuit is designed for 6V tubes and series heaters with a 12.6V supply, it would not work. The 12.6V heater voltage is divided between the two 6.3V filaments in the two tubes. A 12xx series tube wired for 6.3V with pin 9 grounded would also require parallel filament wiring and a 6.3V supply.
'Cliff Notes' version: Don't use 12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7, OR 12SN7 as well as other tubes with 12V filaments. If you do so, you WILL damage the unit or tubes and this will not be covered by warranty.
Thanks,
Dan
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Im so frustrated at losing a series of Ebay auctions for a single Philips Metal base GZ34.
Here in Australia the auctions always seem to end in the middle of the night for me.
Can anyone point me in the direction for an online store that would sell me one for a reasonable price?
Or if someone here is selling a spare, consider this fellow Modwright owner before Ebay?
Personal message me if anyone can help.
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Im so frustrated at losing a series of Ebay auctions for a single Philips Metal base GZ34.
Here in Australia the auctions always seem to end in the middle of the night for me.
Can anyone point me in the direction for an online store that would sell me one for a reasonable price?
Or if someone here is selling a spare, consider this fellow Modwright owner before Ebay?
Personal message me if anyone can help.
JG2 has one for sale:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68504.0
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Im so frustrated at losing a series of Ebay auctions for a single Philips Metal base GZ34.
Here in Australia the auctions always seem to end in the middle of the night for me.
Can anyone point me in the direction for an online store that would sell me one for a reasonable price?
Or if someone here is selling a spare, consider this fellow Modwright owner before Ebay?
Personal message me if anyone can help.
I have one I can make available, shoot me a PM.
George
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Im all sorted with a GZ34
Thank all you kind people for helping me out, and thanks for your tube "R&D" in this thread.
Actually maybe all the info here needs to be distilled into an FAQ?
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Actually maybe all the info here needs to be distilled into an FAQ?
Could be a good idea in some form, given that the thread is currently 60 pages. But a whole lot of what this thread is about is rather subjective observations based on manipulating the sound at the output stage via tube selection. It seems also that opinions, in this regard, can be in flux as folks try different combinations, or go back to ones they've enjoyed previously. I do wish there were some kind of go-to table that summed up these observations rather than having to navigate through 60 pages of posts. Still, there are certainly FAQ's that could be listed. I've helped a few friends with their purchase and considerations of the MWTP and basically was asked many of the same questions by each already well-informed audiophile friend. Here's a few suggested topics for that list based on questions I've answered and what I've observed here, should it ever be implemented...
Why roll tubes in the MW Transporter - what can be achieved by this?
What are the functions of the two types of tubes used in the MW output stage (Rectifier and Signal Tubes)? Is one more important than the other and or does each affect specific aspects of sound?
How long do tubes last in the MW TP?
What is a 'Hypermod'?
Which rectifier tubes can I use in my MW TP?
What is an 'Octal Adapter'? Who makes them (where can I buy them)? Why use octal tubes in the 6SN7 family? What about the 7N7 tubes (identical to the 6SN7?
What should I expect to pay for the various tube options? Are there recommended resources for these tubes.
What is a High Wycombe (HW) tube?
What does EML stand for and what is this tube?
Why are 6SN7's so expensive?
Are expensive NOS options superior to currrent production tubes in the MWTP? Is this investment warranted - does it make a significant difference?
That's what I can come up with off the top of my head. Perhaps Dan can work something up to post either here or on his own server/site. It certainly can be a very rewarding aspect of MWTP ownership and, in answer to the last question on the list; results can be quite profound when comparing different options.
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Hi guys,
I just placed an add for tubes that some of you may have an interest in: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68612.0
Please make comments on the add post.... not here. :nono: :)
Many thanks,
Mark
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Greetings...
I will go into detail later, but for now I just wanted to say that the EML mesh plate I threw in the MWTP made a huge difference. The most valued qualities of my system have been restored with this tube. Plus, all the additional benefits of the MWTP.
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Greetings...
I will go into detail later, but for now I just wanted to say that the EML mesh plate I threw in the MWTP made a huge difference. The most valued qualities of my system have been restored with this tube. Plus, all the additional benefits of the MWTP.
That's great Rasta - the EML is a wonderful tube.
Look forward to your follow up comments.
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Greetings...
I will go into detail later, but for now I just wanted to say that the EML mesh plate I threw in the MWTP made a huge difference. The most valued qualities of my system have been restored with this tube. Plus, all the additional benefits of the MWTP.
Wow, I tried the EML briefly a few weeks ago for the first time and rockets didn't go off and the heavens didn't move - in fact, I think I still might prefer the 1970's BEL GZ34 (oh my god, did he really say that?)! :o :o :o
I lent my EML tube to Ted so he could be a mad scientist for a few weeks, so it will be a little bit before I try the EML again. However, I am pretty sure that in my system, the EML isn't going to trounce or be an obvious choice over my existing favorite.
As always, YMMV.
George
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Ya, I guess I should put my enthusiasm in context. I was previously listening to the rectifier tube supplied by Dan. I believe it was an RCA and probably not the best of show. So, I still had the stock driver tubes in and I replaced just the rectifier tube with the EML.
Really, what I love about my system (Shindo amp / Devore speakers) is the tonal quality. The transparency and open, lively sound has always been there, but when I swapped the MWTP for my Bolder SB3/tube dac source, the tonal quality suffered just a bit. I guess I'm very sensitive to tone and timbre.
So, I was very excited to get it back with the EML.
Also, I wanted to thank everyone here for sharing their findings! Tube Warriors :)
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Wow, I tried the EML briefly a few weeks ago for the first time and rockets didn't go off and the heavens didn't move - in fact, I think I still might prefer the 1970's BEL GZ34 (oh my god, did he really say that?)! :o :o :o
As always, YMMV.
George
Interesting....In my system I've tried a few different Mullard GZ34's and none of them grabbed me in any way whatsoever. That said, they've been stellar performers in my preamp, and in previous amps. I found the GZ34's I tried in the TP to lack dynamic snap'n'slam (hey, did I just coin some new audiophile verbiage?). They just seemed a bit flat to me. This surprised me since they performed so well in other components. Isn't the 70's BEL just a Phillips/Mullard tube made in India from English parts? Have you compared this to an English-made Mullard?
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Wow, I tried the EML briefly a few weeks ago for the first time and rockets didn't go off and the heavens didn't move - in fact, I think I still might prefer the 1970's BEL GZ34 (oh my god, did he really say that?)! :o :o :o
As always, YMMV.
George
Interesting....In my system I've tried a few different Mullard GZ34's and none of them grabbed me in any way whatsoever. That said, they've been stellar performers in my preamp, and in previous amps. I found the GZ34's I tried in the TP to lack dynamic snap'n'slam (hey, did I just coin some new audiophile verbiage?). They just seemed a bit flat to me. This surprised me since they performed so well in other components. Isn't the 70's BEL just a Phillips/Mullard tube made in India from English parts? Have you compared this to an English-made Mullard?
Marco,
I have compared the BEL to the 1950's Phillips Miniwatt MB GZ34 and to my ears, the BEL doesn't have the mid-bass hump and is more balanced across the entire spectrum. All of this without giving up the really great mid-range presence and body that the MB is known for.
George
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Wow, I tried the EML briefly a few weeks ago for the first time and rockets didn't go off and the heavens didn't move - in fact, I think I still might prefer the 1970's BEL GZ34 (oh my god, did he really say that?)! :o :o :o
As always, YMMV.
George
Interesting....In my system I've tried a few different Mullard GZ34's and none of them grabbed me in any way whatsoever. That said, they've been stellar performers in my preamp, and in previous amps. I found the GZ34's I tried in the TP to lack dynamic snap'n'slam (hey, did I just coin some new audiophile verbiage?). They just seemed a bit flat to me. This surprised me since they performed so well in other components. Isn't the 70's BEL just a Phillips/Mullard tube made in India from English parts? Have you compared this to an English-made Mullard?
Marco,
If you want to try one of these Mark has one for sale:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68612.0
Phil
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Marco,
If you want to try one of these Mark has one for sale:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68612.0
Phil
Not really, but thanks, Phil. I'll have to go back and listen to a few of my own GZ34's, but I have to say I heard absolutely nothing that would make me want to pursue that avenue any further. I will revisit it, but I'd have a hard time believing that anything in that tube-type would work well with my system and expectations. It might be worth a go in my preamp, but I have plenty of good Blackburn 5AR4's to do that work. I'm curious to try the EML in there to hear what kind of differences it makes.
George - When you listened to the EML, how many hours did you give it before giving up? Not that it really matters as I felt it sounded pretty astounding right away. What was lacking in the EML for you, in your system? I've not tried the metal based Phillips Minwatt, just brown and black based Mullards and relabled Mullards. Some had already been broken in, and some were NOS. I've also tried GE copper plates (a sleeper favorite in my SET amps). I just could not get the punch I got from even the RCA 5u4G that came with the TP. Both 5U4's and GZ37's sounded better in my system, generally, than any 5AR4/gz34 tube I tried. I will go back and try out the 5AR4's I have since I was NOT using 6SN7's at the time (are you, George?). This could change a whole lot....or nothing at all. All of the listening I did with 5AR4's were with RCA 6CG7 cleartops. As you said, YMMV.
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George - When you listened to the EML, how many hours did you give it before giving up? Not that it really matters as I felt it sounded pretty astounding right away. What was lacking in the EML for you, in your system? I've not tried the metal based Phillips Minwatt, just brown and black based Mullards and relabled Mullards. Some had already been broken in, and some were NOS. I've also tried GE copper plates (a sleeper favorite in my SET amps). I just could not get the punch I got from even the RCA 5u4G that came with the TP. Both 5U4's and GZ37's sounded better in my system, generally, than any 5AR4/gz34 tube I tried. I will go back and try out the 5AR4's I have since I was NOT using 6SN7's at the time (are you, George?). This could change a whole lot....or nothing at all. All of the listening I did with 5AR4's were with RCA 6CG7 cleartops. As you said, YMMV.
The EML tube is fully broken in and I am using Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7's.
I will post more thoughts after I get the EML tube back in the next few weeks and can listen more.
George
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I used to supply a European based spark plug manufacturer with operations in Germany and India, also Bangalore. It was interesting that the Bangalore plugs had a superior test performance than the German made plugs but European regs required 'Made In India' to be stamped on the packaging. This was the kiss of death as most consumers avoided buying them, and they had to be sold at a discount. I would hazard a guess that the BEL tubes made in the 70's are also very well made, and potentially superior than the same tubes made in Europe. At $60 the BEL is a good price.
Tubes produced today have considerable manufacturing advantages than those produced in the last century: cleaner metallurgy, superior glass technology, better design and improved vacuum application/sealing.
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The EML tube is fully broken in and I am using Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7's.
I will post more thoughts after I get the EML tube back in the next few weeks and can listen more.
George
Look forward to hearing what you think, George. All bets are off as far as comparing your impressions with my own: I was exclusively using 6cG7 cleartops at the time and never tried the GZ34's with 6SN7's as you have. I'll give it a try and post my own impressions. Thanks for the input.
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Hi guys.... I said I would make a few comments on 7N7's.
I ordered 3 pairs from Vintage tube services:
Philco tall bottles
Sylvania red/green tops
RCA green dots
All of them are NOS mid 40's to early 50's tubes I am led to believe, costing $60-$70 for a matched and tested pair. I also had a pair of non-identifiable 7N7's on loan from Phil which are probably some well used Sylvania's..... I believe that "most" of the 7N7's were re-branded Sylvania's...? I used the Taiwanese adapters again borrowed from Phil.... 7N7 to 6cg7 type which I believe are currently still out of stock? If someone knows another source for these, please let me know. I use the EML rectifier.
I compared the 7N7's to a nice pair of twice the cost NOS green dot Sylvania 6SN7's.... I don't have a pair of TS round plates for comparison.
The Philco's were the first I tried and they sounded beautiful compared to the 6SN7's.... more detail, better imaging with very specific image placement and loads of bass and general body... image density. A very sweet sounding tube.
The Sylvania's were next and actually sounded VERY similar to the Philco's but with an even slightly sweeter mid-range. The rest of the spectrum was good, but didn't have that tiny extra little bit of magic the Philco's injected.... couldn't put my finger on it and would have been very pleased with them if I hadn't heard the Philco's first.
The RCA's sounded a little different.... bigger soundstage and a lighter, airyer presentation. More detail than the previous tubes, but not so much weight, although very tight and precise bass. Although there's a little more detail than the Philco's, the image placement isn't quite so specific.
All in all, I'm keeping the RCA's and the Philco tall bottles as they are different enough to be useful in different situations/music/systems. The Philco's are great for rock and the RCA's good for acoustic and classical etc.
So.... my experience with the 7N7 tube, including Phil's unidentified 7N7's, is I prefer it to the good quality 6SN7 I had in comparison.... still don't know how they compare to the TS roundplates. Andy at tube services believed the average 7N7 "may" sound better than the average 6SN7 because of better vacuum and a more direct pin connection...? If the "Holy Grail" Tungsol roundplates are unavailable for whatever reason, the 7N7 may be a good budget substitute for some...?
Cheers,
Mark
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FWIW, I have just ordered in some Loctal sockets to experiment with adapters. They can be built from a 9 pin male or an octal male.
I should be able to have a couple of prototypes ready in a week or two.
owenmd, I can send you a pair to evaluate is you will PM me your address.
There is also a pair of Bybee Octal adapters undergoing evaluation by one of the members of this board.
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Here is a pair of 7N7's on E-Bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220418937087
I have not tried this variant.
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Great news that the 7N7 works and sounds great. I would be interested in adapters - 6SN7 to 7N7. Dan's new Sony CDP will be the recipient rather than a TP.
Funny, I haven't heard the new CDP - and won't for a few more weeks - but I am already planning the tube options. :duh:
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FWIW, I have just ordered in some Loctal sockets to experiment with adapters. They can be built from a 9 pin male or an octal male.
I should be able to have a couple of prototypes ready in a week or two.
owenmd, I can send you a pair to evaluate is you will PM me your address.
There is also a pair of Bybee Octal adapters undergoing evaluation by one of the members of this board.
Thanks Wayne.... much appreciated.
I am interested in the final conclusions of the current Bybee beta test adapters.... we'll see.
Best,
Mark
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OK, I know that I am late to the party, but I have finally auditioned the Transporter with EML rectifier and 6SN7 tubes. I don't have Tung-Sol round plates, but rather a pair of 'chrome domes'. The sound IS exceptional and the EML tube is fantastic!
I have since tried the EML tube in our SWLP preamp design as well as our LS 36.5 and I have to say that it IS the king of rectifiers. Thanks to George for bringing such quality new production tubes to the U.S.!
Sincerely,
Dan w.
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Well I received my turbo power supply upgrade around the beginning of May. I've been breaking it in and rolling around in tube diversity....but never quite getting it right. I finally hit very high note in sound. One of the new variables is a JAN CHS 5U4G/VT-244 from sylvania dated 10/43. This is a very cool tube with extra metal rod supports. The second high point is a pair of USN CTL-6SN7WGTA from Tung Sol dated 12/56. All I can say is "WOW" Great tonality, great clarity, great timber and depth. This is the best I've ever had my Modwright transporter sounding. For the record, I do want to roll my round plate Tung Sol 6sn7 from the 40s and my Raytheon 6sn7WGTA back in for evaluation in the context of tube changes in my amplifier and the new 5U4G/VT-244....but my motivation to experiment is not very high right now because the magic is happening.
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....but my motivation to experiment is not very high right now because the magic is happening.
A huge hint/recommendation from the ole' elected Prez of the MW Tube Rolling Club......
DO NOT touch your TP or do any tube rolling when the magic is happening!! :thumb:
Let it happen!! :wine:
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Well I got my bug zapper, er..I mean my EML tube back from Ted.
I'll put it back into the system with a Herbie's UltraSonic Rx Damping Instrument on it and see what happens.
Stay tuned.
George
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Has anyone tried something like CBS Hytron 5692's.... red or brown base...? They're supposed to be the deluxe version of 6SN7's from what I can make out?
Mark
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Has anyone tried something like CBS Hytron 5692's.... red or brown base...? They're supposed to be the deluxe version of 6SN7's from what I can make out?
Mark
Yes and Yes.
They sound just like they are described here:
http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/6sn7sound.html
Not my cup of tea for the Modwright TP, but I can see how they could be very nice for somebody else.
George
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Thanks George.... doesn't sound like a "must have" does it...?
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Has anyone had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure series CV181Z in a MWTP?
The tube is a substitute for the 6sn7, but apparently, not a direct replacement. I'm not sure if it would work in the MWTP. But, it could be interesting if it does.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0)
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Thanks George.... doesn't sound like a "must have" does it...?
It really depends on what you are looking for.
I find them a little too soft at the extremes and a little too warm in the middle. But for somebody who craves a warm and lush mid-range, they will be in love.
George
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Has anyone had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure series CV181Z in a MWTP?
The tube is a substitute for the 6sn7, but apparently, not a direct replacement. I'm not sure if it would work in the MWTP. But, it could be interesting if it does.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0)
At those prices you can almost get any 6SN7/VT-231 out there, so that would be a big factor for me.
In the review on tnt-audio.com, they compare the Shuguang Treasure series CV181Z tube to the Brimar 6SN7. While the Brimar is a very nice tube, I don't share the same opinion of the reviewer that the Brimar is superior to the best from Tung-Sol or Sylvania.
If somebody does try it, hopefully that person has the means to compare it to some other good 6SN7's.
George
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Has anyone had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure series CV181Z in a MWTP?
The tube is a substitute for the 6sn7, but apparently, not a direct replacement. I'm not sure if it would work in the MWTP. But, it could be interesting if it does.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0)
i try that tubes already.It's doesn't work on transporter.it's die on me on the 2nd day.i return both and they're refund back my money.
Speaking of Tubes,Have anybody try russian cryoset 6sn7 tube yet?
lapsan
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Has anyone had a chance to try the Shuguang Treasure series CV181Z in a MWTP?
The tube is a substitute for the 6sn7, but apparently, not a direct replacement. I'm not sure if it would work in the MWTP. But, it could be interesting if it does.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68645.0)
I had dialogue with Ian Grant on these tubes, and confirm what orientalexpress stated - they are not compatible.
A pity as these could have been an interesting option.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=19854)
I have built a pair of 9 pin to Loctal adapters for use with the Modwright Transporter.
This adapter will allow you to use the inexpensive 7N7 tubes.
The pair pictured here will be traveling up to Washington to allow the good folks at Modwright a chance to evaluate the adapters and some 7N7s.
If anyone is interested in buying a set of adapters, please PM me about them. Cost is the same as the Octal adapters. I can also build Octal to Loctal.
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I have a matched pair of Ken Rads that aren't a good match in my system. Anyone want to trade (+ cash) their Russian 6H8Cs for them?
Pm me if you want a good deal on the KRs.
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I have a matched pair of Ken Rads that aren't a good match in my system. Anyone want to trade (+ cash) their Russian 6H8Cs for them?
Pm me if you want a good deal on the KRs.
The 6H8C's sound much better than the Kenrads in my system :thumb:
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Self edited due to silly response. :?
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Hi Fellas,
I am expecting delivery of my Modwright Platinum Truth Transporter from Dan and the octal tube adaptor for the 6sn7's from Bolder. Per Dan's recommendation, I sourced an EML 5u4G already and awaiting delivery of the following NOS 6sn7 pairs - Tung-Sol Round Plate (one pair round mica, one pair oval mica), Ken-Rad VT231, Sylvania black plates VT231, and Mullard ECC33. I tied to read and absorb as much as I could out of this thread, but at 60 plus pages, I tend to get sidetracked.
Reason for this post - just making sure that I am on the right track and all the tubes that I got will work with MWTP. So please, if any of the tubes I listed will not work, please let me know. A friend also speaks very highly of Osram or Marconi B65, but has not tested for this particular application, I can't recall anybody posting about this tube on this thread. I have a pending deal on this tube but will wait for additional feedback as it represents a serious investment. Please educate me.
I intend to use the MWTP conventionally and very eager to know if it will have a good synergy when used a DAC for my Nova Physics Memory Player. I think the NPMP is a very good transport and I am hoping the MWTP will improve upon my old and trusty MBL 1511.
Cheers,
Fernando
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Hi Fellas,
I am expecting delivery of my Modwright Platinum Truth Transporter from Dan and the octal tube adaptor for the 6sn7's from Bolder. Per Dan's recommendation, I sourced an EML 5u4G already and awaiting delivery of the following NOS 6sn7 pairs - Tung-Sol Round Plate (one pair round mica, one pair oval mica), Ken-Rad VT231, Sylvania black plates VT231, and Mullard ECC33. I tied to read and absorb as much as I could out of this thread, but at 60 plus pages, I tend to get sidetracked.
Reason for this post - just making sure that I am on the right track and all the tubes that I got will work with MWTP. So please, if any of the tubes I listed will not work, please let me know. A friend also speaks very highly of Osram or Marconi B65, but has not tested for this particular application, I can't recall anybody posting about this tube on this thread. I have a pending deal on this tube but will wait for additional feedback as it represents a serious investment. Please educate me.
I intend to use the MWTP conventionally and very eager to know if it will have a good synergy when used a DAC for my Nova Physics Memory Player. I think the NPMP is a very good transport and I am hoping the MWTP will improve upon my old and trusty MBL 1511.
Cheers,
Fernando
Fernando, welcome to the MWTP rolling thread - we've gone through many tube discoveries over the many pages on the thread, and I believe you've captured the main conclusions as to what rectifier and signal tube combination's to use to extract the best music out of the TP. I can't recall seeing any posts on the Mullard ECC33, so your feedback on comparing this with the TS round plates will be interesting. The Marconi B65 is a very expensive tube, a search revealed a pair at $900, if these turn out to be the ultimate tube please don't tell me :o just enjoy them!
Phil
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Hi Fellas,
I am expecting delivery of my Modwright Platinum Truth Transporter from Dan and the octal tube adaptor for the 6sn7's from Bolder. Per Dan's recommendation, I sourced an EML 5u4G already and awaiting delivery of the following NOS 6sn7 pairs - Tung-Sol Round Plate (one pair round mica, one pair oval mica), Ken-Rad VT231, Sylvania black plates VT231, and Mullard ECC33. I tied to read and absorb as much as I could out of this thread, but at 60 plus pages, I tend to get sidetracked.
Reason for this post - just making sure that I am on the right track and all the tubes that I got will work with MWTP. So please, if any of the tubes I listed will not work, please let me know. A friend also speaks very highly of Osram or Marconi B65, but has not tested for this particular application, I can't recall anybody posting about this tube on this thread. I have a pending deal on this tube but will wait for additional feedback as it represents a serious investment. Please educate me.
I intend to use the MWTP conventionally and very eager to know if it will have a good synergy when used a DAC for my Nova Physics Memory Player. I think the NPMP is a very good transport and I am hoping the MWTP will improve upon my old and trusty MBL 1511.
Cheers,
Fernando
I had a CEC Tranport and Accutic Arts Dac when I got my MW Transporter.
The Transporter alone sounded best, followed by the CEC/AA combination followed by the CEC to the Transporter.
Jerry
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Hi Fellas,
I am expecting delivery of my Modwright Platinum Truth Transporter from Dan and the octal tube adaptor for the 6sn7's from Bolder. Per Dan's recommendation, I sourced an EML 5u4G already and awaiting delivery of the following NOS 6sn7 pairs - Tung-Sol Round Plate (one pair round mica, one pair oval mica), Ken-Rad VT231, Sylvania black plates VT231, and Mullard ECC33. I tied to read and absorb as much as I could out of this thread, but at 60 plus pages, I tend to get sidetracked.
Reason for this post - just making sure that I am on the right track and all the tubes that I got will work with MWTP. So please, if any of the tubes I listed will not work, please let me know. A friend also speaks very highly of Osram or Marconi B65, but has not tested for this particular application, I can't recall anybody posting about this tube on this thread. I have a pending deal on this tube but will wait for additional feedback as it represents a serious investment. Please educate me.
I intend to use the MWTP conventionally and very eager to know if it will have a good synergy when used a DAC for my Nova Physics Memory Player. I think the NPMP is a very good transport and I am hoping the MWTP will improve upon my old and trusty MBL 1511.
Cheers,
Fernando
It will be interesting to hear your thoughts about the difference in sound between MWTP and the NPMP. If I understand correctly, the NPMP is designed to act as a dedicated transport and music storage system using a strategy that is a bit different than the slim devices/squeeze center combo. If I can speculate, I would think that the magic of the Modwright transporter comes from the architecture of taking the music file from your server and doing a fabulous job of acting as both the "transport" and DAC with a seamless handoff of digital output to AKM DAC to Dan's artful tube analog circuitry. I would speculate (in agreement with Jerry's observations), that taking the NPMP digital output to the Transporter's digital input would not take full advantage of the NPMP memory player architecture as you would lose something via the transfer through spdf.
I have been watching and had great interest in the new PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport and DAC system. If Dan hadn't built his modified transporter, I would probably be pursuing this option. Now I am waiting for them to perfect the device and get their bridge option completed before even considering. I am very intrigued by their potential of their digital lens, which essentially does allow playing from memory in a similar yet different manner than the NPMP. Again with the speculation, I expect that they will have some very nice handling of the digital chain, but that the sum won't equal the transporter with Dan's mods.
Mike
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this is a very very early observation - and I am still using the tubes that Dan supplied as I am still waiting for Wayne's adapters.
very impressed with the level of performance by the MWTP as a standalone player (flac files ripped w/ dbpoweramp @ 6 compression rate) but at this point I tend to listen more using NPMP hooked to the AES/EBU xlr input of the Transporter. More analog sounding and in the room experience in my honest opinion. hopefully somebody in this community can come over to verify that 8)
my NPMP is transport only, waiting for Mark's new upgrades and DAC.
at this point, I'd be very happy to live with both.
and the Blak Hole makes a difference. Thanks Dan. Hope to get to tube rolling soon.
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Hi everyone,
I've been looking back through the thread for comments on experiences with the Herbie's tube dampers. I think George used them, but I can't find any mention on how these work for people. Any comments greatly appreciated! Oh - I have the big EML and the TS 6sn7 rounds...
Jim
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? I've posted several times about that exact combo (page 39 of 63, for example), and posted pictures as well. Love 'em. Size 70 for EML, and size 30 for the pair of 6Sn7's.
Here's the pic one more time!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18940)
Here is what I said:
I detect a subtle tightening of the soundstage and a not so subtle top end control (less sizzle, more shine). It's not night-n-day but it is worth the investment in my system (plus Herbie has a 90 day no-risk return policy). His earlier Hal-O versions would often overdamp in some applications (disliked them on my SWL 9.0SE) but the feedback on the tungtsen-based ultrasonics are have been pretty positive....including this one. :)
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Thanks, Ted. Sorry I wasn't able to find your earlier posts. Long thread. :duh:
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anyone have any idea on tube life in the MW Transporter? Just curious and sorry if this has been asked before ;)
Tony
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? I've posted several times about that exact combo (page 39 of 63, for example), and posted pictures as well. Love 'em. Size 70 for EML, and size 30 for the pair of 6Sn7's.
Here's the pic one more time!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18940)
Here is what I said:
I detect a subtle tightening of the soundstage and a not so subtle top end control (less sizzle, more shine). It's not night-n-day but it is worth the investment in my system (plus Herbie has a 90 day no-risk return policy). His earlier Hal-O versions would often overdamp in some applications (disliked them on my SWL 9.0SE) but the feedback on the tungtsen-based ultrasonics are have been pretty positive....including this one. :)
I am on board with what Ted said.
Don't expect Herbie's tube dampers to turn water into wine...rather think of them as a way to improve on your nice wine. Similar to what happens when you let your wine breath before serving.
George
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Hello everyone,
I have not participated in this thread nor have I begun any tube rolling but I must start now as the tubes in my slightly used MWTP I believe are going out...
I am in need of some assistance, but please bear in mind I have never owned, operated or heard tubes before now... I have had the unit for aprox 2 or 3 months (purchased from an AC member on Agon). I never got to hear it with the original tubes as it arrived with them going out on me. The seller sent a few tubes that I have been using from the start.
So I started with: Tun-Sol 5u4GB & 5AR4 GZ34 (mullard) for the rectifier and only have a pair of RCA 6cg7's for the signal tubes...
I believe the signal tubes are beginning to go out. One gets just slightly less illuminated than the other and I think it is beginning to show periodic static/distortion (which is what the stock tubes showed up doing)...
I am interested in getting the Boulder Cable adapters and going with all 6sn7's (from just some short research over the weekend here)...
BUT since the adapters may take a week or two to get I need a recommendation of a pair of 9 pin signal tubes for to use in the mean time that I could quickly find and order.
Anything else besides another pair of RCA 6cg7's???
EDIT: oh, also, what are the most common and respected online tube stores?
Thank you all for this thread and I look forward to reading it more.
J~
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Hello everyone,
I have not participated in this thread nor have I begun any tube rolling but I must start now as the tubes in my slightly used MWTP I believe are going out...
I am in need of some assistance, but please bear in mind I have never owned, operated or heard tubes before now... I have had the unit for aprox 2 or 3 months (purchased from an AC member on Agon). I never got to hear it with the original tubes as it arrived with them going out on me. The seller sent a few tubes that I have been using from the start.
So I started with: Tun-Sol 5u4GB & 5AR4 GZ34 (mullard) for the rectifier and only have a pair of RCA 6cg7's for the signal tubes...
I believe the signal tubes are beginning to go out. One gets just slightly less illuminated than the other and I think it is beginning to show periodic static/distortion (which is what the stock tubes showed up doing)...
I am interested in getting the Boulder Cable adapters and going with all 6sn7's (from just some short research over the weekend here)...
BUT since the adapter takes many weeks to get I need a recommendation of a pair of 9 pin signal tubes for to use in the mean time that I could quickly find and order.
Anything else besides another pair of RCA 6cg7's???
EDIT: oh, also, what are the most common and respected online tube stores?
Thank you all for this thread and I look forward to reading it more.
J~
Welcome to the Circle J.
If you're going down the 6SN7 path then I would not invest too much in 9 pin tubes, the 6CG7 family are a good all round tube to keep you going in the interim and not too expensive. Another alternative option would be to try new 6H30's just to give a different flavor.
I would probably buy these directly from EBay, or AC members that have these tubes lying around.
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Thanks Phiistine,
Ill stick with a cheep pair of the same for now if I find em...
Since I ordered the adapters and am going the 6sn7 route, are there any 6sn7 types one should stay away from or ones to keep an eye out for?
I guess I need to get reading!
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Thanks Phiistine,
Ill stick with a cheep pair of the same for now if I find em...
Since I ordered the adapters and am going the 6sn7 route, are there any 6sn7 types one should stay away from or ones to keep an eye out for?
I guess I need to get reading!
Many of us have gone through a bunch of different tubes in our ModWright Transporters. They are expensive but I recommend you purchased the EML Mesh Rectifier Tube and Tung-Sol Round Plates 6SN7's. Once you put these tubes in place you can spend your upgrade money in other areas of your system and forget about rolling tubes in the Transporter. Zybar has a rectifier he might prefer to the EML but most of us that have the EML/Tung Sol Round Plate Combination believe they beat every other combination we have tried.
Have fun and enjoy the music!
Ken
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Don't expect Herbie's tube dampers to turn water into wine...rather think of them as a way to improve on your nice wine. Similar to what happens when you let your wine breath before serving.
George
[/quote]
And fine wine it is! I think they've made a nice difference! Starting to really feel the exceptional experience with the TS rounds, EML, etc. Now I need better support. Probably going in for the blak holes. This is the first time that the full TP is clearly better than sending a digital stream out of the TP to the DAC input of my Red Wine Audio Isabella and using the DAC in the Isabella. Or maybe it was just subtle improvements over time. Anyway, now I'm convinced of the investment.
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Many of us have gone through a bunch of different tubes in our ModWright Transporters. They are expensive but I recommend you purchased the EML Mesh Rectifier Tube and Tung-Sol Round Plates 6SN7's. Once you put these tubes in place you can spend your upgrade money in other areas of your system and forget about rolling tubes in the Transporter. Zybar has a rectifier he might prefer to the EML but most of us that have the EML/Tung Sol Round Plate Combination believe they beat every other combination we have tried.
Have fun and enjoy the music!
Ken
OMG, thank you so much! That is the kind of post I wanted to hear but was afraid to ask for :oops: as I would love to spend my upgrade $$ else where and just enjoy the music!!!
Is there a consensus on best place to get the EML or those particular Tun-Sols? Ill assume ebay for the 6SN7's but...
Thanks again!
-
Many of us have gone through a bunch of different tubes in our ModWright Transporters. They are expensive but I recommend you purchased the EML Mesh Rectifier Tube and Tung-Sol Round Plates 6SN7's. Once you put these tubes in place you can spend your upgrade money in other areas of your system and forget about rolling tubes in the Transporter. Zybar has a rectifier he might prefer to the EML but most of us that have the EML/Tung Sol Round Plate Combination believe they beat every other combination we have tried.
Have fun and enjoy the music!
Ken
OMG, thank you so much! That is the kind of post I wanted to hear but was afraid to ask for :oops: as I would love to spend my upgrade $$ else where and just enjoy the music!!!
Is there a consensus on best place to get the EML or those particular Tun-Sols? Ill assume ebay for the 6SN7's but...
Thanks again!
The EML should be purchased here: http://tubesusa.com/tubesusa.html
Many of us purchased our Tung Sol Round plates from this ebay seller. He ships quickly after you purchase but I don't know if he currently has any for sale. http://shop.ebay.com/lowbander80/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
Good Luck,
Ken
-
Many of us have gone through a bunch of different tubes in our ModWright Transporters. They are expensive but I recommend you purchased the EML Mesh Rectifier Tube and Tung-Sol Round Plates 6SN7's. Once you put these tubes in place you can spend your upgrade money in other areas of your system and forget about rolling tubes in the Transporter. Zybar has a rectifier he might prefer to the EML but most of us that have the EML/Tung Sol Round Plate Combination believe they beat every other combination we have tried.
Have fun and enjoy the music!
Ken
OMG, thank you so much! That is the kind of post I wanted to hear but was afraid to ask for :oops: as I would love to spend my upgrade $$ else where and just enjoy the music!!!
Is there a consensus on best place to get the EML or those particular Tun-Sols? Ill assume ebay for the 6SN7's but...
Thanks again!
The EML should be purchased here: http://tubesusa.com/tubesusa.html
Many of us purchased our Tung Sol Round plates from this ebay seller. He ships quickly after you purchase but I don't know if he currently has any for sale. http://shop.ebay.com/lowbander80/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
Good Luck,
Ken
Ken's nailed it with both the general consensus on tubes and their respective sources.
Their are a few other options but the EML and Tung Sol pairing are the two favorites - it took many of us time and money to arrive here :duh: We can console ourselves on the fact that we had fun on the way.
One caveat - before you buy an EML tube I would recommend checking with Dan Wright to ensure your TP has the capacitor configuration that works with the EML tube. Earlier TP's may not be compatible with the EML.
-
If you don't want to (or can't) spend the amount of money required to get the EML/Tung Sol Blackplate combo that we all love, here is a combination that gets you pretty darn close at a fraction of the price:
6SN7's: VT-231 Raytheon, black flat plates or VT-231 Ken-Rad, flat black plates
These can be purchased from lots of vendors on Audiogon, eBay, etc...
rectifier: BEL GZ34 5AR4 - 1970s Rare MINT NOS NIB by Philips/Mullard OEM
http://www.tubemonger.com/1970s_Bel_NOS_NIB_GZ34_5AR4_Philips_Mullard_OEM_p/3.htm
Have fun!
George
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? I've posted several times about that exact combo (page 39 of 63, for example), and posted pictures as well. Love 'em. Size 70 for EML, and size 30 for the pair of 6Sn7's.
Here's the pic one more time!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18940)
Here is what I said:
I detect a subtle tightening of the soundstage and a not so subtle top end control (less sizzle, more shine). It's not night-n-day but it is worth the investment in my system (plus Herbie has a 90 day no-risk return policy). His earlier Hal-O versions would often overdamp in some applications (disliked them on my SWL 9.0SE) but the feedback on the tungtsen-based ultrasonics are have been pretty positive....including this one. :)
Ted,
I've picked up a recent production EML and the size is smaller than earlier production - the Size 70 is way to small for the current production. I'll check with Steve and revert back on the correct size.
Guess EML are sizing down the 5U4G's away from the UK size to the US size in order to make you guys feel less inadequate :green:
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I really love the Tung Sol 5u4g (top getter with support rods) or sylvania 5u4G/vt244 and either Raytheon 6sn7 or Tung Sol 6sn7. Right now my favorite combo is Sylvania 5U4G/VT244 with a Tung Sol 6sn7WGTA. In my current system, this beats the EML/round plate combination. I might be willing to sell my EML 5u4G mesh plate, but probably want to keep the round plate tung sols for future tube rolling.
M
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The sacrifices made to be able to share this invaluable info to us late comers to this thread is greatly appreciated!
rectifier: BEL GZ34 5AR4 - 1970s Rare MINT NOS NIB by Philips/Mullard OEM
How close is what I am using now to this "second choice" tube or the EML? I currently have Sylvania / Mullard 5AR4 GZ34 1972 B2L2
It has only been in for a day and a half with out critical listening but right off the bat the improvement over a Tung-Sol 5U4GB 1963 was DYNAMICS!
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Ok, so I realize my last question is one easily answered by searching and reading.... But I have a few basic tube usage questions Im hoping ya'll could help with...
How long should the signal tubes be expected to last?
Do you leave your MWTP tubes switched to on most of the day or once you begin listening? (I ask this one because I work at home some days and tend to stream chill internet radio for hours and hours and then move to FLAC and CD's in the evening so the TP is on for most of the day multiple days a week)
And... I think I know the answer to this one but what do tubes do/sound like when they go out/begin to go out?
Some pretty basic knowledge here I suppose... Maybe a Tubes for dummies 101 link would help me as well...
thanks again guys
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I'll take a shot at answering what I can:
Signal tubes - I've not had any signal tubes fail, so not sure what lifetime they have but I don't believe it to be an issue as the TP is very kind/stress free with signal tubes.
As a general rule I don't leave my tubes on if I'm not planning to listen all day, if I'm planning to listen all day (intermittently or extended) then I will leave them switched on. I normally switch the tubes on about 20 mins before a serious listening session and, to preserve tube life, I switch off in the evening.
Never heard a signal tube go out, so can't help on this one.
Trust this helps.
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EML 5U4G update:
I checked with Steve (Herbies) on the UltraSonic Damping Instrument as I have an earlier 5U4G and a recent one, both have different diameters - the larger older one needs size 65 and the newer one 55. The isolation pads are removable so it's very easy (and inexpensive) to replace the titanium C rings in order to change sizes, nevertheless I would recommend checking the diameter of the tube before ordering the damper.
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So is this both versions of the EML 5U4G?
The larger older one and the newer smaller one?
Is there any sonic difference?
What is the difference in length (height?) of the two tubes?
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Whelp.... There goes my cables upgrade :duh:
The TP is almost in the good hands of Dan and crew to be able to accept the EML as well as getting the hyper upgrades... Secured some Tung-Sol 6sn7 round plates, and have the BCC adapters on the way too! Will order the EML mesh as soon as I get around to it...
So what first was intended to be a quick question about tubes, and now my cables upgrades cash is gone! Thanks guys :wink:
But really, thank you all for your time, effort and sharing of the info! It is greatly appreciated!
One question: Burn in... How long should I break in this 'new life' in the TP before critical listening and what will be full break in for these tubes as will as the hyper mod???
Thanks again
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So is this both versions of the EML 5U4G?
The larger older one and the newer smaller one?
Is there any sonic difference?
What is the difference in length (height?) of the two tubes?
The 'older/newer' versions are identical in height it's just the diameter that's slightly different. Didn't detect or listen for any sonic differences.
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Whelp.... There goes my cables upgrade :duh:
The TP is almost in the good hands of Dan and crew to be able to accept the EML as well as getting the hyper upgrades... Secured some Tung-Sol 6sn7 round plates, and have the BCC adapters on the way too! Will order the EML mesh as soon as I get around to it...
So what first was intended to be a quick question about tubes, and now my cables upgrades cash is gone! Thanks guys :wink:
But really, thank you all for your time, effort and sharing of the info! It is greatly appreciated!
One question: Burn in... How long should I break in this 'new life' in the TP before critical listening and what will be full break in for these tubes as will as the hyper mod???
Thanks again
I'm sure you'll be very happy with the upgrade and the tube change.
After the Hyper Drive upgrade we all noticed an immediate and significant improvement, I didn't listen for a burn-in but Ted_B noticed a burn-in improvement. As the upgrade is a such step change I would just dive straight in and enjoy it from day 1.
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Here are two pics of my new TP with the new standard octal sockets.
It's breaking in with a TS 5U4GB and new issue TS 6SN7GTB tubes.
Sounds pretty good but it's got a ways to go.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22650)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22651)
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Sweet! looks pretty cool with the octal sockets (no adaptors). I'm curious how the new Russian TungSol 6SN7s measure up.
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Sweet! looks pretty cool with the octal sockets (no adaptors). I'm curious how the new Russian TungSol 6SN7s measure up.
Greg, I can tell you how the Russian TS's stack up as I bought them to try out the adapters before sacrificing any expensive NOS tubes. The new production Russian tubes clearly share the family traits of the 6SN7 family and are phenomenal value for money. However the NOS TS tubes are significantly smoother and more musical. I could easily live with the Russian tubes but one you've heard the older tubes it's hard to go back to the new ones - even when they cost 10 times the price!
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Thanks Phil... I recently rolled back to my RCA clear-tops and TS 5U4G (an old favorite combo for me) and listened for a day... but that was it. Just one evening and I wanted to go back to the EML + TS-round that I had just rolled out. So I did. Well, half way back at least. I returned the big EML tube to it's home, and gave my Ken-Rad's a second spin. That was a few days ago now, and I find that they are very close to the Tung-Sols (in my system). Close enough for me to not miss that last 2% of musicality that the TS rounds seem to provide. So, for day to day I'll leave the Ken-Rads in and roll in the Tung-Sols for the special occasions when I can sit down and really listen. :)
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Hey, what ever happened to Rydenfan (Dan)? He helped me so much and I haven't seen him post much anywhere recently...
Jim
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Hey, what ever happened to Rydenfan (Dan)? He helped me so much and I haven't seen him post much anywhere recently...
Jim
David (not Dan) has been on a sort of hiatus. He's fine... but he and his wife have just this past week moved from Sarasota FLA to Boston! The movers arrived yesterday at the new place, and he's buried! They love the Northeast, have plenty of family there, and both will start great new jobs that are exciting and challenging! He'll be back on soon enough, but for now I am keeping him apprised daily.
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Right - thanks for the update and best wishes David and family! I had an old colleague named Dan Kimmel so screwed that up!!
Jim
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Just saw the last few posts and wanted to say HI :D
I have certainly been pretty consumed lately and am just beginning to come up for air. Ted does a great job of making sure a piece of my brain stays reserved for audio :wink: and I hope to be back soon. Happy listening till then...
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200 Hours and some new more better tubes....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24014)
A bit closer...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24015)
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Guys:
Most of we longer term owners of the ModWright Transporter performed a bunch of tube rolling and the majority settled on the EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier and 6SN7 Tung-Sol Round Plate Signal Tubes. One in our midst, Philistine, has continued to search for a modern production tube to better or at worst be the equal of the round plates. He ordered a pair of these: http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z and had them shipped directly to Dan for approval to use in the Transporter. Phil told me Dan approved them and then sent them along to him for evaluation in his system. I will not provide his comments about the tubes as hopefully he will post comments soon but he told me they made more impact in his system than does the EML 5U4G Rectifier. Whoa!!! Being a tube rolling junkie I could not resist temptation and ordered a pair. They were waiting for me when I arrived home today and after listening to the system for approximately an hour I replaced the Round Plates with the Black Treasures.
The Grant Fidelity Website claims it takes up to 300 hours for these tubes to reach their peak. No joke, my immediate reaction to these tubes, brand new, is that they are better in my system than the Tung-Sol Round Plates. Tighter bass, cleaner-more detailed highs and more dynamics to the sound. Midrange is not as full sounding but not lean by any stretch. If these continue to get even better it will be unbelievable.
If you are purchasing a new ModWright Transporter or have recently purchased one just save yourself some time. Purchase an EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier and a pair of the Black Treasures. The best part is that both are new production tubes and come with a year warranty.
This is a professional review of the Black Treasures: http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html
Ken
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Guys:
Most of we longer term owners of the ModWright Transporter performed a bunch of tube rolling and the majority settled on the EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier and 6SN7 Tung-Sol Round Plate Signal Tubes. One in our midst, Philistine, has continued to search for a modern production tube to better or at worst be the equal of the round plates. He ordered a pair of these: http://grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z and had them shipped directly to Dan for approval to use in the Transporter. Phil told me Dan approved them and then sent them to along to him for evaluation in his system. I will not provide his comments about the tubes as hopefully he will post comments soon but he told me they made more impact in his system than does the EML 5U4G Rectifier. Whoa!!! Being a tube rolling junkie I could not resist temptation and ordered a pair. They were waiting for me when I arrived home today and after listening to the system for approximately an hour I replaced the Round Plates with the Black Treasures.
The Grant Fidelity Website claims it takes up to 300 hours for these tubes to reach their peak. No joke, my immediate reaction to these tubes, brand new, is that they are better in my system than the Tung-Sol Round Plates. Tighter bass, cleaner-more detailed highs and more dynamics to the sound. Midrange is not as full sounding but not lean by any stretch. If these continue to get even better it will be unbelievable.
If you are purchasing a new ModWright Transporter or have recently purchased one just save yourself some time. Purchase an EML 5U4G Mesh Rectifier and a pair of the Black Treasures. The best part is that both are new production tubes and come with a year warranty.
This is a professional review of the Black Treasures: http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html
Ken
I'll confess that I tried my Treasure CV-181-Z's in my MW Transporter a few months back and thought they sounded magnificent; however I only ran them for 10-15 minutes as I dug up the 'old' comments in this thread (or elsewhere in the forum) that at least 1 user had experienced a problem with his MW Transporter while/from running the Treasures.
Maybe Dan could shed some light on whether something has changed? I know I really, really liked the sound of my MW Transporter when running the Treasures; maybe I'll get brave and slip them back in for another listen....
Thanks,
Randy
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I wonder if they would be available in China at a more reasonable price?
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I wonder if they would be available in China at a more reasonable price?
It is only a guess but I think they priced them comparable to the very best NOS 6SN7's which happen to be the Tung-Sol Round Plates.
Ken
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I'll confess that I tried my Treasure CV-181-Z's in my MW Transporter a few months back and thought they sounded magnificent; however I only ran them for 10-15 minutes as I dug up the 'old' comments in this thread (or elsewhere in the forum) that at least 1 user had experienced a problem with his MW Transporter while/from running the Treasures.
Maybe Dan could shed some light on whether something has changed? I know I really, really liked the sound of my MW Transporter when running the Treasures; maybe I'll get brave and slip them back in for another listen....
Thanks,
Randy
This is the reason why Philistine had them shipped directly to Dan for his approval to use in the Transporter. Phil would never have told me about them if they were not approved for the Transporter. We both own the ModWright Transporters with the platinum mods and bybees.
Ken
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Awesome; mine has everything except the Bybee's. And I'm listening to the Treasures in it right now and sounding just next to awesome!!
Thanks!
Randy
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I've been holding off on a review of the Shuguang Black Treasures as they apparently require some hours on them and I've also had other equipment changes. I then plan to compare them against the Tung Sol Round Plate 6SN7's...
Ken's correct - Dan, and Ian at Grant Fidelity, wanted to ensure complete compatibility and Dan ran them under load in the Transporter, they operated right in the middle of the 6SN7 spec and have the Modwright seal of approval.
My prime objective was to find the signal tube equivalent of the EML: a tube that is readily available, guaranteed and equal or outperform vintage NOS 6SN7's. So far the Black Treasure is stacking up to be a potential TSRP killer...
As an aside Ian and Rachel at Grant Fidelity have been great to work with and I can strongly recommend them as a guaranteed source.
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I'll chime in and say the same for Ian & Rachel as well; my first purchase was a quad of the Treasure 6CA7's that I run in my Cary SLI-80---their performance led me to sell off my stash of primo pwr tubes, I loved the Treasure 6CA7's so much!
I bought the CV-181z's to use as the driver tubes in the Cary, and they work great there.
Then I purchased the RMAF demo A-534B 300B SET integrated from Ian & Rachel--it came with Black Treasure 300B output tubes, Black Treasure 6CA7's as the driver tubes; I've rolled in various NOS 12AX7's and 12AT7's in the pre section. This is my first SET and I'm absolutely thrilled with the sound. And Ian & Rachel were absolutely great to deal with; first class all the way.
I'll agree with the widely held sentiment that the Black Treasure tubes are not inexpensive (and I was skeptical at first that a Chinese tube should command near NOS prices), but IMHO they have matched or more often outperformed the primo NOS tubes I've had the opportunity to try. So I'm a convert and happy there is a current production option of this quality so that hopefully the source will be there for the foreseeable future.
Randy
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As an aside Ian and Rachel at Grant Fidelity have been great to work with and I can strongly recommend them as a guaranteed source.
I also would like to say my experience with the purchase of the Black Treasures from Grant Fidelity was totally positive. Rachel provided excellent communication and shipped quickly.
Also, I would like to thank Philistine for all of his efforts in discovering and proving the Black Treasures are a suitable signal tube for the Transporter. :thumb: They are the real deal!
Ken
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Hey. I am a happy MW TP owner who is doing some tube rolling for the first time. I have Truth not Platinum mods but have an octal adapter so I can roll both 9 pins and 6sn7s. I have some familiarity with 6sn7s as I use them in my pre.
Anyway, as I have poured through this amazing thread, it seems that most switched to 6sn7s once the adapters and Platinum version became available. Thus, I was wondering whether I should I stick to 6sn7s? Or are there any 9 pins-especially the 6h30p-dr-worth checking out?
Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Hey. I am a happy MW TP owner who is doing some tube rolling for the first time. I have Truth not Platinum mods but have an octal adapter so I can roll both 9 pins and 6sn7s. I have some familiarity with 6sn7s as I use them in my pre.
Anyway, as I have poured through this amazing thread, it seems that most switched to 6sn7s once the adapters and Platinum version became available. Thus, I was wondering whether I should I stick to 6sn7s? Or are there any 9 pins-especially the 6h30p-dr-worth checking out?
Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Shredder:
Prior to Ted and some of the other guys obtaining Dan Wright's okay to use 6SN7's in the Transporter we went through basically every 9 pin tube possibility. I think the 6H30DRs were pretty good but not as good as some of the best 6SN7's. Most of the serious tube rollers settled on the Tung-Sol Round Plates as the best 6SN7 Signal Tubes. Right out of the box, as previously stated, I find the Black Treasures to be better than the Tung Sol Round Plates in my system but the Round Plates are still excellent performers.
My advice: if you already own 9 pin tubes then try them in the Transporter to form your own opinion. If you do not own the correct 9 pin tubes, don't plow ground many of us have already plowed, invest your money in the Black Treasures or in the Tung-Sol Round Plates.
Ken
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Hey. I am a happy MW TP owner who is doing some tube rolling for the first time. I have Truth not Platinum mods but have an octal adapter so I can roll both 9 pins and 6sn7s. I have some familiarity with 6sn7s as I use them in my pre.
Anyway, as I have poured through this amazing thread, it seems that most switched to 6sn7s once the adapters and Platinum version became available. Thus, I was wondering whether I should I stick to 6sn7s? Or are there any 9 pins-especially the 6h30p-dr-worth checking out?
Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Shredder:
Prior to Ted and some of the other guys obtaining Dan Wright's okay to use 6SN7's in the Transporter we went through basically every 9 pin tube possibility. I think the 6H30DRs were pretty good but not as good as some of the best 6SN7's. Most of the serious tube rollers settled on the Tung-Sol Round Plates as the best 6SN7 Signal Tubes. Right out of the box, as previously stated, I find the Black Treasures to be better than the Tung Sol Round Plates in my system but the Round Plates are still excellent performers.
My advice: if you already own 9 pin tubes then try them in the Transporter to form your own opinion. If you do not own the correct 9 pin tubes, don't plow ground many of us have already plowed, invest your money in the Black Treasures or in the Tung-Sol Round Plates.
Ken
+1 :thumb:
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Thanks guys, that was what I needed to know.
The Black Treasures are really enticing given that they are still made.
Take care.
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I've been trying a few different tung sol 6sn7 varieties in my platinum transporter. I have settled on the tung sol 6sn7wgta as my favs. I have some mouse ear 6sn7gts from Brent Jesse that I think are pretty close in sound to the round plates. Not sure why, but in my system the the wgta version has more pleasing sound for vocals, especially female vocals. Both the mouse ears and the round plates have a bit more emphasis on the highs.
For those that don't want to spring for the round plates, the mouse ears might be a good cost effective alternative.
I guess I will have to spring for and try some of the black treasures....but it seems like the A-stock won't be available until January.
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Hey. I am a happy MW TP owner who is doing some tube rolling for the first time. I have Truth not Platinum mods but have an octal adapter so I can roll both 9 pins and 6sn7s. I have some familiarity with 6sn7s as I use them in my pre.
Anyway, as I have poured through this amazing thread, it seems that most switched to 6sn7s once the adapters and Platinum version became available. Thus, I was wondering whether I should I stick to 6sn7s? Or are there any 9 pins-especially the 6h30p-dr-worth checking out?
Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Shredder:
Prior to Ted and some of the other guys obtaining Dan Wright's okay to use 6SN7's in the Transporter we went through basically every 9 pin tube possibility. I think the 6H30DRs were pretty good but not as good as some of the best 6SN7's. Most of the serious tube rollers settled on the Tung-Sol Round Plates as the best 6SN7 Signal Tubes. Right out of the box, as previously stated, I find the Black Treasures to be better than the Tung Sol Round Plates in my system but the Round Plates are still excellent performers.
My advice: if you already own 9 pin tubes then try them in the Transporter to form your own opinion. If you do not own the correct 9 pin tubes, don't plow ground many of us have already plowed, invest your money in the Black Treasures or in the Tung-Sol Round Plates.
Ken
+1 :thumb:
+2 :thumb:
I've got a box full of rectifier and signal tubes as we've gone down this journey.
Ken's advice is bang on the money.
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As with my friends Phil and Ken, I too have acquired a rather extensive array of rectifier and signal tubes for my hyper modded MWTP. Each combination reveals compelling strengths and weaknesses. Typically, my ears seem to drift to a "thinness" or an "excess" in one or more characteristics of the sonic presentation of any given combo.
An inflection point for me came with the arrival of a Tung-Sol VT244 rectifier several months ago (based upon a recommendation from mikel51 for which I would like to say a hearty "Thanks!"). I very much enjoy the EML rectifier and the Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate combo and feel that they owe no apology for their exquisite performance. Truly exceptional mids and soundstage but <in my system> a trifle lacking with bass drive and upper highs. With that said, the TS VT244 always seemed to have more drive, dynamics and contol over the EML. Unfortunately these qualities would shift unpredictably as new signal tubes were rolled.
Quite by chance, I would up with an inexpensive pair of NOS RCA 6SN7GTB's with the wafer bases. These are probably the last generation of the 6SN7 design and were made in the mid to late 60's. To my surprise, these signal tubes simply got along better with the TS VT244 than any of my tragically expensive, older issue 6SN7's. My subsequent best efforts with rolling the other tubes in my collection finally succumbed to this combination establishing itself as a mainstay.
Several posts back, our prez, Ted, recommended that "you don't mess with magic". I agree. While YMMV, this combo <in my system> really delivers the goods... solid image and excellent dyamics with nothing missing in the highs, mids or lows. For the first time there was nothing whatsoever to criticize as missing, excessive or negative.
If memory serves, I snagged my wafer based RCA 6SN7GTB's for ten bucks. A NOS TS VT244 is somewhat more rare and expensive, but when found, runs between $150-$200.
If Phil and Ken think that the Black Treasures rock, I'll probably have to buy a pair. These guys have great ears and know their stuff. Better than what I'm hearing right now would clearly put me over the top.
Nice to see activity in this valuable thread once again.
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Due apologies if this isn't appropriate here, but anyone with a spare :o High Wycombe gz37 or metal base gz34 available, please shoot me a pm; I've moved my EML 5U4G mesh over to my amp (and George won't have any available for quite a while), so I'm looking for another rectifier for my MW Transporter.
Thanks!
Randy
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Due apologies if this isn't appropriate here, but anyone with a spare :o High Wycombe gz37 or metal base gz34 available, please shoot me a pm; I've moved my EML 5U4G mesh over to my amp (and George won't have any available for quite a while), so I'm looking for another rectifier for my MW Transporter.
Thanks!
Randy
Randy, I've got an EML in my Transporter and have tried a second in my 36.5 - my initial reaction is that having two EML's can push the overall sound towards being too full and bloated. I recall Ted and Rydenfan had a similar experience. You might want to check with them first!
Phil
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Due apologies if this isn't appropriate here, but anyone with a spare :o High Wycombe gz37 or metal base gz34 available, please shoot me a pm; I've moved my EML 5U4G mesh over to my amp (and George won't have any available for quite a while), so I'm looking for another rectifier for my MW Transporter.
Thanks!
Randy
Are you looking to buy or borrow?
George
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As with my friends Phil and Ken, I too have acquired a rather extensive array of rectifier and signal tubes for my hyper modded MWTP. Each combination reveals compelling strengths and weaknesses. Typically, my ears seem to drift to a "thinness" or an "excess" in one or more characteristics of the sonic presentation of any given combo.
An inflection point for me came with the arrival of a Tung-Sol VT244 rectifier several months ago (based upon a recommendation from mikel51 for which I would like to say a hearty "Thanks!"). I very much enjoy the EML rectifier and the Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate combo and feel that they owe no apology for their exquisite performance. Truly exceptional mids and soundstage but <in my system> a trifle lacking with bass drive and upper highs. With that said, the TS VT244 always seemed to have more drive, dynamics and contol over the EML. Unfortunately these qualities would shift unpredictably as new signal tubes were rolled.
Quite by chance, I would up with an inexpensive pair of NOS RCA 6SN7GTB's with the wafer bases. These are probably the last generation of the 6SN7 design and were made in the mid to late 60's. To my surprise, these signal tubes simply got along better with the TS VT244 than any of my tragically expensive, older issue 6SN7's. My subsequent best efforts with rolling the other tubes in my collection finally succumbed to this combination establishing itself as a mainstay.
Several posts back, our prez, Ted, recommended that "you don't mess with magic". I agree. While YMMV, this combo <in my system> really delivers the goods... solid image and excellent dyamics with nothing missing in the highs, mids or lows. For the first time there was nothing whatsoever to criticize as missing, excessive or negative.
If memory serves, I snagged my wafer based RCA 6SN7GTB's for ten bucks. A NOS TS VT244 is somewhat more rare and expensive, but when found, runs between $150-$200.
If Phil and Ken think that the Black Treasures rock, I'll probably have to buy a pair. These guys have great ears and know their stuff. Better than what I'm hearing right now would clearly put me over the top.
Nice to see activity in this valuable thread once again.
Good to see you around Nick, looks like you've had fun tube rolling this year.
Over the summer I explored the 7N7 and 6F8G path, and settled on 6F8G's. I've spent yesterday and early this morning swapping out my 6SN7's, 6F8G's and the Black Treasures - the Black Treasures are just overall more musical than all the others. I'll try and post some pics later today and more detail on why they're so good.
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Due apologies if this isn't appropriate here, but anyone with a spare :o High Wycombe gz37 or metal base gz34 available, please shoot me a pm; I've moved my EML 5U4G mesh over to my amp (and George won't have any available for quite a while), so I'm looking for another rectifier for my MW Transporter.
Thanks!
Randy
Randy,
I sent you a PM 20 min ago.
Ted
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Thanks Phil, George & Ted (Ted, just pm'd back). I'm definitely looking to buy (although I may have worked out a trade for an Amperex metal base gz34).
The EML sounds so good in my 300B SET integrated (options there are more limited; basically 5U4G/GB at this point; maybe 5AS4) that I hate to pull it and put it back in the MW Transporter (although I, like most, haven't been very tempted to roll anything in its place in the MW since I plugged it in).....I'm running one of my Mullard gz37's in the MW now; fine sound, but I'm hoping I can bump things up a notch yet.
The High Wycombe sounds like it might be a great match for me, but the only source I've found has a $300-350 price tag! I've read before that the big bottle Cossur gz37 (U52) is as good or better and a few of those are available for a bit less.
Thanks again for all and any input!
Randy
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Guys:
I know you aren't suppose to make too many changes at one time but I think I have struck upon a magical tube combination in my system. I have the EML Mesh 5U4G Rectifier and the Black Treasures in the Transporter and the Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates in the Mapletree Preamp (along with a new Umbilical Cord made by Chris Hoff). Others have told me that I will know when I get it right and this is definitely the best I have heard my system sound.
System is as follows:
Source: ModWright Transporter
PreAmp: Mapletree 2A-SE
Amps: Odyssey Mono SEs
Speakers: Usher Dancer Mini II's
ICs: JPS - Superconductor 3's
SCs: JPS - Superconductor 3's with JPS Jumpers
PCs: Black Sand Silver MK -V's
Dedicated 20 AMP Circuits with JPS Outlets
Room has a substantial amount of wall treatments.
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I just wanted to take a moment and again publicly thank the AC'ers that have put lots of time, effort & $ into compiling this wealth of info., and also those of you that have responded with insight and/or offers re my quest for another rectifier.
At this point I have a Amperex metal base GZ34 and a High Wycombe cv378 on the way, so I'm thinking I'll be a happy camper soon!
Thanks again guys, even though interracting via the 'net and email is impersonal, I feel like I have a new group of friends (and ones that understand my crazy addiction to boot :o)!
Happy Holidays to all!
Randy
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Guys:
I know you aren't suppose to make too many changes at one time but I think I have struck upon a magical tube combination in my system. I have the EML Mesh 5U4G Rectifier and the Black Treasures in the Transporter and the Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates in the Mapletree Preamp (along with a new Umbilical Cord made by Chris Hoff). Others have told me that I will know when I get it right and this is definitely the best I have heard my system sound.
System is as follows:
Source: ModWright Transporter
PreAmp: Mapletree 2A-SE
Amps: Odyssey Mono SEs
Speakers: Usher Dancer Mini II's
ICs: JPS - Superconductor 3's
SCs: JPS - Superconductor 3's with JPS Jumpers
PCs: Black Sand Silver MK -V's
Dedicated 20 AMP Circuits with JPS Outlets
Room has a substantial amount of wall treatments.
Sweet! :thumb:
For months and months I haven't changed my tube combo from the EML + Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates. Maybe one day I will get a chance to hear the Black Treasures.
Happy Holidays.
George
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In case you guys didn't already know - you can get a VIP Gold membership at Grant Fidelity and get 25% off on the Grade A tubes. The membership is $2.99 IIRC and the total shipped cost for the tubes is $260 a pair. I'm gonna order some soon - they are supposed to be in early January.
Tony
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Great tip on the VIP card tdangelo. I too plan on ordering some BTs in January and 25% is a pretty nice saving. Thanks and take care.
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;-)
btw: the VIP membership offer expires 12/31/09
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I've had my Shuguang Black Treasures in just over a month now and here is an update:
Presentation:
After receiving NOS wrapped in old newspaper and bubble wrap it's a nice change to receive tubes in a foam lined presentation box - a good start....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24906)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24910)
Here are the Treasures with the EML rectifier tube:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24907)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24909)
The Black Treasures have been compared against a variety of 6SN7's (including the TSRP's), 7N7's and 6F8G's and are significantly better than any other signal tube I've tried. They are more linear across the entire frequency spectrum, more musical, have more detail and a more three dimensional soundstage presentation. If I had a choice between giving up these or the EML, then the EML would go....they are that good!
I plan to do a more detailed comparison with the TSRP 6SN7's later, in the interim these tubes are a definite recommendation in the Transporter.
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Philistine, I'm really enjoying my Treasure CV-181's also; you're assessment of these tubes reminds me of how I felt about the Treasure 6CA7's----I like them better than almost all the NOS output tubes I've tried. And I will admit that I went into it pretty skeptical and not really happy about paying the Treasure prices for a 'non NOS, Chinese' tube....
Randy
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I just wanted to add my $0.02! They are an EXCEPTIONAL driver tube and DO measure 100% compatible with the ModWright Transporter.
Thanks!
Dan W.
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Ok, between the positive posts and Boxing Week discount, I ordered a pair of the Shuguang Black Treasures and will have them in the middle to end of January.
I will be directly comparing them to the Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates.
If the Shuguang Black Treasures turn out to be equal or better, I can simply use the Tung-Sol's in my MA-1's. :-)
George
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If the Shuguang Black Treasures turn out to be equal or better, I can simply use the Tung-Sol's in my MA-1's.
George:
My Tung-Sol's are residing in my Mapletree Preamp! You will not be disappointed with the Black Treasures.
Ken
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" Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU)
:lol:
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" Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU)
:lol:
I felt the same way when Philistine sent me a PM about the Black Treasures. It was futile for me to try to resist the temptation. :rotflmao: I would like to add that Phil was reserved in posting his initial thoughts about the Treasures. He did not want you guys to go out and buy these tubes until he was darn confident that they are the real deal! As soon as I rolled them into my Transporter it was "oh wow, these tubes are really good." You see, I did not share Phil's reservations about pulling you guys into rolling more high-end tubes and immediately posted my impressions. :rotflmao:
Ken
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" Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU)
:lol:
I felt the same way when Philistine sent me a PM about the Black Treasures. It was futile for me to try to resist the temptation. :rotflmao: I would like to add that Phil was reserved in posting his initial thoughts about the Treasures. He did not want you guys to go out and buy these tubes until he was darn confident that they are the real deal! As soon as I rolled them into my Transporter it was "oh wow, these tubes are really good." You see, I did not share Phil's reservations about pulling you guys into rolling more high-end tubes and immediately posted my impressions. :rotflmao:
Ken
It worked... ordered mine today. aa
Thanks Ken and Phil for blazing the trail! :thumb:
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" Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU)
:lol:
I felt the same way when Philistine sent me a PM about the Black Treasures. It was futile for me to try to resist the temptation. :rotflmao: I would like to add that Phil was reserved in posting his initial thoughts about the Treasures. He did not want you guys to go out and buy these tubes until he was darn confident that they are the real deal! As soon as I rolled them into my Transporter it was "oh wow, these tubes are really good." You see, I did not share Phil's reservations about pulling you guys into rolling more high-end tubes and immediately posted my impressions. :rotflmao:
Ken
I know what a tough crowd you guys are - no second chance if I got this wrong :lol:
My expectations for the Black Treasures was to find a tube that was close to the best of the NOS 6SN7's, to find a new tube that is potentially better is a major bonus.
George over at Tubes USA believes the design, modern metallurgy, glass and vacuum technology all combine to make the EML 5U4G's a winner. It looks like the same ideas can be applied to the Treasures......?
I need to burn in my second KWA and decide on cables, then I can do a more critical AB with the Treasures and TSRP's in order to specifically define the differences.
Have a great tube rolling new year everyone!
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Heck, I now revisiting some of the gymnastics various of you have long since been thru--I've moved my EML 5u4g mesh to my 300B SET integrated amp, and have just plugged in a metal base Amperex gz34 (I had never gone the gz34 route, having basically went from NOS 5u4gb's in my MW Transporter to the big EML). I swapped the EML to the amp because its much more limited in types of rectifiers I can use, and none of my stash of vintage 5u4g's or gb's sound nearly as good to me in it as the big EML.
So I have Treasure cv-181 & the Amp metal base gz34 in the Transporter, feeding the 300B (with the EML rectifier, Treasure 300B output and 6CA7 drivers, along with NOS Genelex A2900 pre tubes in the integrated) and the sound is really, really nice. Thanks to the great AC'ers that answered my plea for primo rectifier options, today I also received a High Wycombe cv378 that I'm going to roll into the Transporter soon (I'm not confident that the cv378 will work in my integrated, although I have used a Chemler u52/cv1071 in the amp.
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Aha, I have found the source of the increase in orders :) No matter how big of a run Shuguang does on these, or how many we order, at most we only get about 30 to 40 Grade A pairs per run that can be closely matched on both sections for critical audiophile use, some of which go to boutique manufacturers and into our own amps. The CV181-Z's are typically sold out prior to their arrival at GF. If ordering please let us know you are using them for your Transporter, if you have ordered and didn't mention it please do by email or however you ordered. Then I can send out similar tested to those that went to Dan and Phillip.
Thank you Phil for your efforts on this and thanks to those that had taken the plunge on the Treasures earlier and have reported at AC. Always appreciated and remembered.
Guess who doesn't have a pair!, Rachel always ends up selling mine to complete an order or for some hard luck story. Only once have I heard them with more than 200 hours on them. They sound very good out of the box but quite forward and the midrange is a mixed up, after about 8 hours the midrange clears up a bit, at about 2 points during the first 150 hours, they lose it for a few hours, just sounding a bit weird, as in thin, between 100 and 150 hours the bass kicks in, kind of like where did that octave come from. After 150 hours they become stable and are about at 98% of the sound you will hear from them, again I have only heard them at 200 hours, but the audiophiles in China that did the initial development testing all agreed 300 hours. We don't know how long they will last in service, certain materials that made NOS last so long just aren't allowed to be used anymore, but we have zero reports of failures on them since we got our AT-1000 and could sort out the grading and reject the 'too far from spec' ones. We expect more than 5,000 hours, time will tell.
Thanks,
Ian
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Arrgh :cry:!!! Fumble fingers me; my EML 5U4G mesh took a short tumble and now refuses to light up!!!
George told me a couple of weeks ago that it would be a while before he has more in stock, so now I don't have the EML big boy for the Transporter or amp for a while!!!
Lesson learned--leave well enough alone!!!! I was very happy with the sound with the EML in the amp and either the metal base gz34 or High Wycombe in the Transporter..... had to move all the equipment around a check pins, etc.....and fumbled the EML!!!
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Arrgh :cry:!!! Fumble fingers me; my EML 5U4G mesh took a short tumble and now refuses to light up!!!
I really feel for you! Good luck on getting a replacement soon!
Ken
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Thanks Ken! Fortunately I have 2 great options for the MW, and a few alternatives for the amp (just none of them as special as the EML)!
Randy
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Dear All,
I don't have the transporter (yet) but I have LS/PS combo. I friend of mine told me that JJ Tesla GZ34 Cryo are as good as Mullard. Nobody try the JJ?
Regards,
Giuseppe
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Nooby tube question. The MW transporter uses 2 tubes from the 6cG7/6FQ7/6BG7/6BQ7/6N1P/6h30 family. How does one know that the Shuguang Treasure Black Bottle CV-181Z is compatible? In general, how does one know which tubes will work with each component? There seem to be so many variations of tubes, like for 5AR4 rectifiers.
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Nooby tube question. The MW transporter uses 2 tubes from the 6cG7/6FQ7/6BG7/6BQ7/6N1P/6h30 family. How does one know that the Shuguang Treasure Black Bottle CV-181Z is compatible?
Ummm...Dan said so a few posts ago. :wink:
George
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But Phil bought them before Dan said so. :?
Ummm...Dan said so a few posts ago. :wink:
George
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Nooby tube question. The MW transporter uses 2 tubes from the 6cG7/6FQ7/6BG7/6BQ7/6N1P/6h30 family. How does one know that the Shuguang Treasure Black Bottle CV-181Z is compatible? In general, how does one know which tubes will work with each component? There seem to be so many variations of tubes, like for 5AR4 rectifiers.
The new ModWright Transporters come with 6SN7 Tube Sockets. Those of us that have the older ModWright Transporters use adapters that fit into the 6CG7Sockets that allow use of the 6SN7 tubes.
You can tube roll to your hearts desire with the ModWright Transporter. As previously reported many of us have rolled numerous combinations of tubes. First of all, different Rectifiers impact the sound quality and a majority of us longer term owners have settled on the Emission Labs 5U4G Mesh as our favorite. Up until recently most of us had settled on the the Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates as our favorite signal or power tubes. Most recently two or three of us have replaced the Tung-Sol Round Plates with the Black Treasures and are happy with the results. If you read through the recent posts you will see one from Dan Wright were he approves the use of the Black Treasures in the Transporter.
Ken
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What happened was I bought a pair and had Grant Fidelity send them to Dan first in order for him to test them. Dan tested them under load in the TP, gave them the green light and listened to them in his office before forwarding to me. We did this to clarify the compatibility with the TP and clear up any confusion.
My understanding is that they are really 6SN7's but mislabeled.
All I know is they sound great!
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Thanks for all the tips.
How do you deal with mixing and matching tubes when you have multiple tube components in the signal path? I have a MW transporter hooked up to a MW 9.0SWL SE pre. I assumed I don't want to have the same rectifier in both.
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Thanks for all the tips.
How do you deal with mixing and matching tubes when you have multiple tube components in the signal path? I have a MW transporter hooked up to a MW 9.0SWL SE pre. I assumed I don't want to have the same rectifier in both.
The following was posted by Phillistine earlier:
Randy, I've got an EML in my Transporter and have tried a second in my 36.5 - my initial reaction is that having two EML's can push the overall sound towards being too full and bloated. I recall Ted and Rydenfan had a similar experience. You might want to check with them first!
Phil
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Nooby tube question. The MW transporter uses 2 tubes from the 6cG7/6FQ7/6BG7/6BQ7/6N1P/6h30 family. How does one know that the Shuguang Treasure Black Bottle CV-181Z is compatible? In general, how does one know which tubes will work with each component? There seem to be so many variations of tubes, like for 5AR4 rectifiers.
Ummm...Dan said so a few posts ago. :wink:
George
I gotta post 'cause I like this response so much :thumb: Ultimately I think it gets down to a range of acceptable/comparable voltage output and some other electronic stuff that I do not understand. Honestly, I am at a bit of a loss on this as well, along with any reason that I have been discouraged from rolling in the LS-36.5. Short answer for me is that the Transporter is not quite as "picky" about what tubes it can use...
Oh, and uh... thanks a lot for making me want to try the "new hotness" :D
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I had to break down and order a pair of Black Treasures myself.
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Are the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTs different than the TS 6SN7s?
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Are the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTs different than the TS 6SN7s?
Here is a good document on 6SN7 tubes:
http://www.tubeseller.com/ratings.php?osCsid=778a1ab5ebb8e17ec8a55838cc326582
George
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That doesn't seem to discuss the TS 6SN7GTs although it does discuss only manufacturer's GTs. It seems like the TS 6SN7s are hard to find (for purchase).
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Brian from the TubeDepot says that the TS 6SN7s and the TS 6SN7GTs are the same. They are selling them for $80 each.
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Brian from the TubeDepot says that the TS 6SN7s and the TS 6SN7GTs are the same. They are selling them for $80 each.
But those aren't the Round Plates that we love and use.
George
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Check out the video that Brent put together on his website:
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
George
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But those aren't the Round Plates that we love and use.
George
It's all confusing! His description says "Tungsol 6SN7GT Round Plate." I'll watch the video on audiotubes.com to learn more.
http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-6sn7gt-9.html (http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-6sn7gt-9.html)
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It's all confusing! His description says "Tungsol 6SN7GT Round Plate." I'll watch the video on audiotubes.com to learn more.
http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-6sn7gt-9.html (http://www.tubedepot.com/pa-6sn7gt-9.html)
This is a pair of Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates for Sale and many of us purchased from this particular seller last year: http://cgi.ebay.com/VT231-TUNG-SOL-6SN7-ROUND-PLATE-CTL-6SN7GT-WWII-NOS-NIB_W0QQitemZ110469300944QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item19b87bc2d0 (http://cgi.ebay.com/VT231-TUNG-SOL-6SN7-ROUND-PLATE-CTL-6SN7GT-WWII-NOS-NIB_W0QQitemZ110469300944QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item19b87bc2d0)
You will be very lucky to purchase a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates in excellent condition for less than $300.00 per pair. The link George provided is an excellent overview of the 6SN7 Tubes. You will find that the 6SN7 tubes that rate highly on that list tend to be rare and expensive!
Good Luck,
Ken
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IMHO the mouse ear tung sols sound very similar to the round plates....I have a pair of round plates purchased from the seller noted by Ken. I'm curious if anyone else has made this comparison.
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-matched-1952-53-Tung-Sol-Micky-Mouse-6SN7-GT-tubes_W0QQitemZ360216872278QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item53de994556
I don't think I would buy this pair (not closely enough matched, and cracked base) but the picture is pretty good. I think you can get a really good pair of them in the $80 range if you keep your eyes open.
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Say hi to your newest MWT owner from the UK.
I just ordered a set of Treasures from the local distributor to replace the stock 6SN7's, looking forward to the results :thumb:
The EML tube is a tricky one. That's going to need a new rack :icon_lol:
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Say hi to your newest MWT owner from the UK.
I just ordered a set of Treasures from the local distributor to replace the stock 6SN7's, looking forward to the results :thumb:
The EML tube is a tricky one. That's going to need a new rack :icon_lol:
Welcome to the forum - there's a couple of Brits here, myself and ownenmd, we intended to take back the colony but decided it's so messed up it ain't worth having!
I'm sure you'll enjoy the Treasures, the EML is a huge tube so yes it does need another rack space. I'll post a photograph later to give an idea of the size.
Keep in touch on your Treasure findings...
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You will be very lucky to purchase a pair of Tung-Sol Round Plates in excellent condition for less than $300.00 per pair.
Add another $50 or so to that and you would still be lucky!
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Got myself a pair of the Treasure tubes. Brilliant sounding!! Replaced Brimar black coated tubes (same as per the TNT article comparing the treasures to the black coated Brimars). They were my little secret too until the Treasures have come along and displaced them. Now with the EML and Treasures, I feel as though I have the best and no NOS issues to worry about going forward.
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Now with the EML and Treasures, I feel as though I have the best and no NOS issues to worry about going forward.
:thumb:
Ken
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Hello Philip,
Now all I need is a transporter! :)
Best,
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25292)
Kurashima Triode Amp w/George Lenz designed 37/76 "transformer coupled" preamp featuring 274A EML meshplate rectifier
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has anyone talked to Grant Fidelity and have an update on the shipping date? Last I heard was mid January.
thanks
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has anyone talked to Grant Fidelity and have an update on the shipping date? Last I heard was mid January.
thanks
That's what I heard as well.
Don't worry, shouldn't be much longer.
George
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Could someone confirm that I remember hearing/reading that the NOS TungSol Round Plates have an estimated 10,000 hour life span? Am I remembering right here?
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Deep joy.... :thumb:
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss136/browellm/IMG00013-20100112-1120.jpg)
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Could someone confirm that I remember hearing/reading that the NOS TungSol Round Plates have an estimated 10,000 hour life span? Am I remembering right here?
Depends on many factors, so it is very hard to say definitively. I don't believe Dan is running the tubes very hard, so tube life should be pretty good.
George
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Depends on many factors, so it is very hard to say definitively. I don't believe Dan is running the tubes very hard, so tube life should be pretty good.
George
Thanks George,
I have no doubt that life span is fine and well worth it. I was getting at something here but wanted to get confirmation on what I thought I remembered hearing about the lifespan of the NOS TungSol's...
This quote from iGrant got me wondering.
"We don't know how long they will last in service, certain materials that made NOS last so long just aren't allowed to be used anymore, but we have zero reports of failures on them since we got our AT-1000 and could sort out the grading and reject the 'too far from spec' ones. We expect more than 5,000 hours, time will tell."
It seems to be the consensus so far that the Black Treasures sound better than the Round Plates but how much better? I know the 'how much better' outlook is subjective but if the TungSol's are very very good to begin with and last possibly twice as long at the same price, then one could look at it as the Black Treasures costing twice as much if one must purchase them more often.
This might seem like a odd thing to think about to some but Im looking at this from the perspective of people who buy ahead to secure their NOS or these new Black Treasures...
Jason
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Thanks George,
I have no doubt that life span is fine and well worth it. I was getting at something here but wanted to get confirmation on what I thought I remembered hearing about the lifespan of the NOS TungSol's...
This quote from iGrant got me wondering.
"We don't know how long they will last in service, certain materials that made NOS last so long just aren't allowed to be used anymore, but we have zero reports of failures on them since we got our AT-1000 and could sort out the grading and reject the 'too far from spec' ones. We expect more than 5,000 hours, time will tell."
It seems to be the consensus so far that the Black Treasures sound better than the Round Plates but how much better? I know the 'how much better' outlook is subjective but if the TungSol's are very very good to begin with and last possibly twice as long at the same price, then one could look at it as the Black Treasures costing twice as much if one must purchase them more often.
This might seem like a odd thing to think about to some but Im looking at this from the perspective of people who buy ahead to secure their NOS or these new Black Treasures...
Jason
Jason,
Your logic makes good sense to me.
As I don't yet have a pair of Black Treasures, I can't say how they compare to the Round Plates (my fav 6SN7 by far). Hopefully I will be able to say later this month.
George
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Jason,
Your logic makes good sense to me.
As I don't yet have a pair of Black Treasures, I can't say how they compare to the Round Plates (my fav 6SN7 by far). Hopefully I will be able to say later this month.
George
I look forward to hearing what you and others think as more peeps try these new ones out... And being one that secured extra pairs of Rounds Plates from Greece, I am a little reluctant to ditch on my investment, sell my extras and jump on the Black Treasures just yet...
Jason
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Deep joy.... :thumb:
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss136/browellm/IMG00013-20100112-1120.jpg)
browellm,
Your EML is not chrome coated on the top like the others I have seen and like the one I have running... When did you get it?
Jason
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Hi Jason
I'm UK based so I purchased from www.jacmusic.com, which is based in Germany ,it arrived today.
It's working fine in my setup so far, but I can post the specs from the side of the box if you like, to see if it's the same as the chrome-tops.
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Hello Browellm,
The chrome top you see is the gettering(flashing).This flashing is due to the evacuation process that occurs during the final stage of tube manufacturing. The hoop that you see inside the bottle is called the "getter". Some tubes have their getter positioned on the top, and some have their getter positioned on the bottom. Also, some tubes have more than one getter inside the glass envelope. This should also be noted with regards to signal & output tubes. In the end, where the flashing is positioned is of no consequence.
Best,
George
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Very informative, thanks George.
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If you've never seen how a tube is made (and even if you have) check out this video! (http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vacuum_tube.html). It's 17 minutes, but is utterly fascinating. I think Shuguang and EML probably have things a bit more streamlined.
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Not to hijack this thread, but because there are so many MWTP owners reading this - I've asked what is probably a silly question in this new thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76435.new#new) regarding the Amarra plug-in.
Please don't post replies here - use the link an reply on the appropriate thread.
Thanks for the bandwidth.
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I have a question. I am brand new to the world of tubes and the MWTP..so bear with me.
I just ordered my unit and am waiting for it...I am upgrading from a Bolder modded Duet.
After reading here it seems the tubes most people like are the EML and Black Treasure combo. Should I order and put these in my unit before I use it? It would be nice to hear a big improvement over my Duet, and maximize my unit right from the start.
Also what does everyone think of the Grover Huffman balanced I/C to start with?
Thanks to everyone with the info you have already shared...BTW you have and continue to cost me a lot of $$...but also provided me much enjoyment.
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I would wait until the MWTP is broken in and you have a feel for its sound. Otherwise you will not be able to form your own opinion on the different tubes. The sound of a tube combination is not absolute. Like anything else it is personal taste.
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BTW, Rachel from Grant Fidelity said that Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' CV181-Z (6SN7GT) A stock tubes were being delivered and that they should start filling orders in the next few days.
Sounds like some of us will have some new tubes to play with next week. :drool:
George
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After reading here it seems the tubes most people like are the EML and Black Treasure combo. Should I order and put these in my unit before I use it? It would be nice to hear a big improvement over my Duet, and maximize my unit right from the start.
Also what does everyone think of the Grover Huffman balanced I/C to start with?
Hi,
I haven't got my Black Treasures yet, so can't comment on those.... but seems they may be the optimum choice right now...?
Both Philistine and I use Grover SX RCA interconnects on our MWTP's and are very happy with them. You may want to pm Philistine as he has background with the choice of single-ended verses balanced on the Transporter?
I also use the Grover digital balanced XLR cable from my transport to MWTP and am extremely happy with its performance.
Cheers
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Sounds like they got the Black Treasures in this week...I was sent a paypal invoice.
I am thinking I will break in the TP with stock tubes and then roll later.
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I like the sound of Mullard ECC33 brown base better than the Tung Sol Round Plates (tried 2 pairs of these). I have a pair of Treasure Series on order, I will report the result once I tried them. I don't see too many people commenting about Mullard ECC33 here and I wonder why. I think they are more musical than the very popular TSRP. Had anybody in the forum compared ECC33 vs other candidates?
I use EML 5U4G rectifier with them btw.
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I just ordered my unit and am waiting for it...I am upgrading from a Bolder modded Duet.
Most of the longer term owners broke-in our units with the stock tubes. I believe you will find some other tube combinations to sound better than the ones supplied with the unit, maybe you will be totally happy. In any event the ModWright Transporter is a tube rollers dream! Have fun and enjoy reducing the amount of green in your wallet buying new tubes!
Ken
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I like the sound of Mullard ECC33 brown base better than the Tung Sol Round Plates (tried 2 pairs of these). I have a pair of Treasure Series on order, I will report the result once I tried them. I don't see too many people commenting about Mullard ECC33 here and I wonder why. I think they are more musical than the very popular TSRP. Had anybody in the forum compared ECC33 vs other candidates?
I use EML 5U4G rectifier with them btw.
The Mullard ECC33's aren't more musical to my ears than the Tung-Sol Round Plates. The Mullards also aren't as clean and well balanced top to bottom.
I still haven't heard a better overall 6SN7 tube than the Round Plates. It will be interesting to see if the Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' CV181-Z (6SN7GT) can knock it off its perch.
George
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Here's an on-line review of the Treasures:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html\
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html
Ignore the rant on the nomenclature, it was written before we got the Dan green light.
I read this review after installing the Treasures and found it echoed my experience with them. It's interesting that the writer prefers Brimar's, fortunately I never got around to trying these.
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I still haven't heard a better overall 6SN7 tube than the Round Plates. It will be interesting to see if the Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' CV181-Z (6SN7GT) can knock it off its perch.
George:
I have been unable to switch back and reevaluate the Round Plates as I am now running them in my preamp. I am so happy with the Treasures in the Transporter and the Round Plates in the Preamp that I am done tube rolling. End of journey!! :thumb:
Ken
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Here's an on-line review of the Treasures:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html
Only the second link worked for me.... but I have doubts about the mans sanity... :scratch:
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Has anyone compared the 6H8C to the Black Treasure or the TSRP? & 5V4G to the EML?
I am currently using the 5V4G & 6H8C in the Transporter.
I have tried metal base 5ar4, RCA 5ra4 big bottle, 5v4ga, 5r4gy on the rectifier side. On the output side
I have tried TSRP with round mica and rectangular/oval mica, 6H8C metal base and 6H8C regular base which is cheaper.
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Hi Phil, actually Mark preffered the Treasures over the Brimars, his closing line:
I have spent many long hours burning-in and auditioning NOS 6SN7 (there's so many to choose from) and the Shuguang CV181Z beats them all with maybe 50 hours on them and they claim to need 300 hours. Anyone wanna buy a load of black Brimars?
For everyone that ordered the Treasures, they went out today, check your email for tracking. Thanks for your patience and good chatting with some of you :)
Cheers,
Ian
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Received my Treasures today, replaced the pair of TSRP I have on MWTP with it, listened for 3 hours... still very early to make an impression, but it did not disappoint..
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I am wondering if anyone else has received their Black Treasures and if they have any comments?
Thanks,
Ken
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mine were delayed due to weather in Manitoba - figures :duh: :duh: still waiting...
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I am wondering if anyone else has received their Black Treasures and if they have any comments?
Thanks,
Ken
Still waiting.
George
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Mine are one day away. That is, if everything goes perfectly.
Probably Friday at the latest. Provided everything goes smoothly.
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Since claims are that these tubes sound their best after 300 hours of play time (about 12 days of constant use) I have what may be a naive question about burn-in via the MWTP: for burn-in is it enough to JUST have the MWTP and output stage turned on and music streaming through it, or do you need the preamp turned on as well to receive an output signal in order to effectively burn-in the tubes?
As a follow-up to that; to those of you who have got the tubes, how much difference was there between brand new and at X-hours of burn-in? Were the differences profound or subtle?
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Hi Phil, actually Mark preffered the Treasures over the Brimars, his closing line:
I have spent many long hours burning-in and auditioning NOS 6SN7 (there's so many to choose from) and the Shuguang CV181Z beats them all with maybe 50 hours on them and they claim to need 300 hours. Anyone wanna buy a load of black Brimars?
For everyone that ordered the Treasures, they went out today, check your email for tracking. Thanks for your patience and good chatting with some of you :)
Cheers,
Ian
Sorry Ian, what I meant to say was the writer preferred Brimar's in terms of NOS 6SN7's but the Black Treasures as the best overall tubes. I'm still loving my Black Treasures :thumb:
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Since claims are that these tubes sound their best after 300 hours of play time (about 12 days of constant use) I have what may be a naive question about burn-in via the MWTP: for burn-in is it enough to JUST have the MWTP and output stage turned on and music streaming through it, or do you need the preamp turned on as well to receive an output signal in order to effectively burn-in the tubes?
As a follow-up to that; to those of you who have got the tubes, how much difference was there between brand new and at X-hours of burn-in? Were the differences profound or subtle?
Marco, I was burning in a KWA150 at the same time so can't really comment on how the Black Treasures changed over time.
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Since claims are that these tubes sound their best after 300 hours of play time (about 12 days of constant use) I have what may be a naive question about burn-in via the MWTP: for burn-in is it enough to JUST have the MWTP and output stage turned on and music streaming through it, or do you need the preamp turned on as well to receive an output signal in order to effectively burn-in the tubes?
As a follow-up to that; to those of you who have got the tubes, how much difference was there between brand new and at X-hours of burn-in? Were the differences profound or subtle?
Very good question !
From my actual limited experience burning these in, Rachel always needs to sell mine typically with less than 20 hours on them, I did get to 300 hours once on a pair, being run though as a driver tube in our A-348 amp, so in and out was active. Not sure if the Transporter is operating in class A or not, but just having the heater on will instigate burn in, if in Class A with no signal, the tube will burn in quicker, Class A being somewhat like having your foot down on the gas pedal while in neutral or park.
My mind just won't let me break in anything to do with music though without it doing it's job of creating notes, so I would break them in with both input and output active, you can shut off downstream of the next component in the chain. But, really it is fun to hear these things go thru their changes, it is never unlistenable and with the power tubes it for me is always better than what it replaced.
I do hope that some will post what they hear as it goes thru the burn in process. What I do know is they sound very good right out of the box, the mids will be a little weird and the top and bottom extensions haven't occurred at all, but still good, likely much better than stock tubes, then it falls apart for a few hours, then around 8 hours in gets good again (probaly about 80% of what the tube can do), still tight sounding, but starts opening up and goes weird again a couple of times for a few hours until around 150 hours when I have witnessed an extra octave appears on the bottom end and soon after the air (like a mesh plate power tube) is very noticeable, at this point you are probably getting about 98% of what the tube can do.
For those that are just getting theirs, you will note the Grant Fidelity logo on the other side of the tube, this started with our last order. We have gone this route to establish what is the premium Treasure tube, with Grade A or Grade B grading, even on our latest order we had a large percentage that did not even make Grade B, these go back to the factory. The factory selects ours first from a production run based on getting as close to our spec as possible, then prints our logo.
Cheers,
Ian
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Thanks, Ian. That is very helpful input.
On burn-in; I'm not sure whether Dan's circuit is running in Class A or not. I'll check with him on that and post the thread unless someone can chime in with an answer. If it is not, wouldn't the fact that it's connected to a preamp be all that's needed, whether on or off (won't it see the impedance of the pre regardless)? My goal would be to accelerate the process and leave it running at night, and prefer not to put the wear on my preamp tubes if I don't have to.
Very good question !
From my actual limited experience burning these in, Rachel always needs to sell mine typically with less than 20 hours on them, I did get to 300 hours once on a pair, being run though as a driver tube in our A-348 amp, so in and out was active. Not sure if the Transporter is operating in class A or not, but just having the heater on will instigate burn in, if in Class A with no signal, the tube will burn in quicker, Class A being somewhat like having your foot down on the gas pedal while in neutral or park.
My mind just won't let me break in anything to do with music though without it doing it's job of creating notes, so I would break them in with both input and output active, you can shut off downstream of the next component in the chain. But, really it is fun to hear these things go thru their changes, it is never unlistenable and with the power tubes it for me is always better than what it replaced.
I do hope that some will post what they hear as it goes thru the burn in process. What I do know is they sound very good right out of the box, the mids will be a little weird and the top and bottom extensions haven't occurred at all, but still good, likely much better than stock tubes, then it falls apart for a few hours, then around 8 hours in gets good again (probaly about 80% of what the tube can do), still tight sounding, but starts opening up and goes weird again a couple of times for a few hours until around 150 hours when I have witnessed an extra octave appears on the bottom end and soon after the air (like a mesh plate power tube) is very noticeable, at this point you are probably getting about 98% of what the tube can do.
For those that are just getting theirs, you will note the Grant Fidelity logo on the other side of the tube, this started with our last order. We have gone this route to establish what is the premium Treasure tube, with Grade A or Grade B grading, even on our latest order we had a large percentage that did not even make Grade B, these go back to the factory. The factory selects ours first from a production run based on getting as close to our spec as possible, then prints our logo.
Cheers,
Ian
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On another subject. I located two "No" responses to using the Sophia 274B in the MWTP circuit, citing that it requires seeing a first resistor value of 10uf or smaller. I've been using one in my Woo Audio WA6SE headphone amp and I'm pretty sure the first resistor value in that is 22uf. No problems there and it is a very popular rectifier for that application. Has anyone actually tried one out? Certainly I don't want to risk the tube or circuit, but happen to have one for the Woo and thought to try it as it's supposed to be a drop-in for 5U4G. I've got a query in to Dan, but just wondered if anyone had any input or had actually tried one?
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Received the Treasures. They're plugged in and warming up.
When I removed the TSRPs I noticed one cracked its base. Bummer.
I'll report back soon.
Edit:
2.5 albums later...
Fantastic tubes.
Great detail everywhere. Results in a deep 3D sound stage.
Highs are clean and very extended - cymbals have excellent shimmer.
More dynamic/punchy than I expected.
Super imaging. A result of better matching?
Less bloom/halo effect in the midbass than the TSRP (at least the pairs I have tried).
More forward than the TSRP. Maybe a bit more gain too.
Diana Krall sounds ten years younger on "The Girl In The Next Room". Weird, I know. Maybe a result of less midbass bloom.
As far as break in is concerned, they sounded fantastic right from the start. Any changes over the past two hours have been very subtle.
Better than the TSRP? So far I would say yes.
Even better after 300 hours of break in? Damn.
I have learned you don't know better until you've heard it so I guess we'll see. Or hear, more precisely.
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AB,
What rectifier are you using with the Black Treasure. Thanks.
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AB,
What rectifier are you using with the Black Treasure. Thanks.
The EML 5U4G. Of course. :green:
More Treasure break in...
After about 7 hours of playing the sound sort of went...kablooey.
The center image became rounder and smeared. The lovely dynamics - percussion and leading edges - became less lovely. And, overall, a light veil obscured what was just a few hours earlier, a very crystal clear sound stage.
I hope that sorts out soonest.
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Finally! There's a new shipment of EML 5U4G Meshplates on their way to the USA tomorrow. The ETA is about two weeks for transit. I will notify all whom have requested these tubes when the arrive!
Best,
George
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Awesome George. Thanks, can't wait to get the EML back in play.
Randy
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Quick question for those who recently received their Black Treasure tubes...did the tubes come via the Post Office or were they delivered by the freight company?
According to the tracking info, the tubes are now local and I am wondering if delivery is tomorrow or Monday.
Thanks,
George
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George,
Mine showed up today from UPS. Hope that helps.
David
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George,
Mine showed up today from UPS. Hope that helps.
David
Was UPS the carrier the entire time?
Mine was sent via Purolator (who I have never used before).
George
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George,
Mine was sent via Purolator as well.
David
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Was UPS the carrier the entire time?
Mine was sent via Purolator (who I have never used before).
George
My tubes arrived from Grant Fidelity today. While they were dispatched from Purolator from GF in Canada, they were delivered by UPS to me in Atlanta after roosting a good bit on delivery trucks en route.
First impressions are consistent with those in whose path I follow... serious linearity with a punchy drive; clearly a high quality tube that materially sets itself apart from the pack.
Bound to become a favorite from among this discerning audience...
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got mine around 3:30 today - they sound pretty good so far. They started off with Purolator but UPS delivered.
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Treasure burn in report #3.
Added another 7 hours on the tubes today. Imaging came back but now everything is VERY clinical sounding, dry and sibilant. The leading edge dynamics are back but are emphasized too much and stand out from the music. Still tons of detail but at this point that's not a good thing. Bottom line, right now they sound like solid state - no tubeyness at all.
Maybe 300 hours isn't crazy? :duh:
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I just wanted to add my support RE the 'Black Treasures'. I had the opportunity to listen to Philistines, as I took measurements and verified that all was within our design specs, a while ago.
They are truly as beautiful sounding as they look! Don't know what they are doing to make these tubes sound the way they do, but they are truly excellent and quite honestly not what I have come to expect from Chinese tube makers.
Perhaps Shuguang is a tube mfr. to watch!
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Hallo people...hallo there...i am Vlasis from Greece and a happy(VERY VERY HAPPY) owner of the great 36.5 preamp(hallo Dan) !!!!
I am using 2 super tube 6H30 DR (1986 nos) and i want to learn from you what valve do you suggest me for the rectifier(5ar4 ruby inside).....i want the best for my 36.5!!!!
Can you help me my friends?i dont care about the money!!
My other system is cd player AMR CD 77 valve,speakers B&W Nautilus 802,amp Perraux 2x350 watt,audiomagic rack,Acoustic revive spekers cables,interconect-Audioquest Niagara xlr-Mundorf copper-Nirvana sx limited edition,power cables jena labs,Audience.
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv26/porcelanas/Picture006.jpg)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv26/porcelanas/Picture014.jpg)
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Hi Vlasis and welcome to the MW community.
I'm using the Emission Labs 5U4G in the 36.5 and the Modwright Transporter, the EML 5U4G is paired with the 6H30DR's in the 36.5 and is a great combination. You will have to have a hole in the top of the 36.5 to accommodate it, or run it with the top off after taking all the necessary safety precaution:
http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/order/ordering-info.htm
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML5U4G.htm
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Hallo and many thanks dear Philistine for your fast answear.......
I think its beter to open a hole for this valve but i really dont know the right position (i think i must count for the right dinstance)
A Dan do you know????????????hehehehe
Philistine ok if i open the hole do you know what else i need?If i put the valve is it ok?
Thanks again and greedings from sunny Greece!!!!
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I just wanted to add my support RE the 'Black Treasures'. I had the opportunity to listen to Philistines, as I took measurements and verified that all was within our design specs, a while ago.
They are truly as beautiful sounding as they look! Don't know what they are doing to make these tubes sound the way they do, but they are truly excellent and quite honestly not what I have come to expect from Chinese tube makers.
Perhaps Shuguang is a tube mfr. to watch!
Thanks,
Dan W.
Hi Dan,
The 30 or so million audiophiles in China are basically all into tubes and have been DIYing for ever, now these audiophiles have money to spend and the 2 companies Shuguang and TJ FullMusic are competing for this huge market who are starting to or can afford the best tubes available. It will be fun to watch what happens over there as this competition moves forward. The two designers who are competing are both 75 years old, were both trained in Russia in the same class and both look like they have another 25 years in them.
Thanks for taking the time to test and check out our tubes.
Cheers,
Ian
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Thanks, Ian. That is very helpful input.
On burn-in; I'm not sure whether Dan's circuit is running in Class A or not. I'll check with him on that and post the thread unless someone can chime in with an answer. If it is not, wouldn't the fact that it's connected to a preamp be all that's needed, whether on or off (won't it see the impedance of the pre regardless)? My goal would be to accelerate the process and leave it running at night, and prefer not to put the wear on my preamp tubes if I don't have to.
I wanted to follow up on my earlier question regarding burn-in of tubes in the MWTP: I heard back from Dan who confirmed that the output stage does operate in Class A. So, based on Ian's input, that would imply that one need only have the tube-output circuit turned on, with no music streaming necessary, in order to burn-in the output tubes.
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Hallo and many thanks dear Philistine for your fast answear.......
I think its beter to open a hole for this valve but i really dont know the right position (i think i must count for the right dinstance)
A Dan do you know????????????hehehehe
Philistine ok if i open the hole do you know what else i need?If i put the valve is it ok?
Thanks again and greedings from sunny Greece!!!!
Hi vlasis,
I'll post a few photographs for you so you can see the tube through the hole and also add the dimensions. I'll do this tomorrow from a different computer as the one I'm currently using does not have my photographs loaded on it.
As a Brit, now living in the US, I know and have visited your beautiful country many times and eaten your great food! Which part of Greece are you from?
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Good morning Philistine :eyebrows:...thanks again for your interest and take care amico.
I am leaving in Korinthos 80 km from capital of Athens close to the sea .I was 26 years in Athens but its a big rough city and the life if you have family its difficult .
Now ..in Korinthos i really enjoy my family,my life,the sandy beaches and of course my MUSIC!!!!!
More than 4000 cds and 1.5 terra of audiophile music ...o yeaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hi Vlassis, I would recommend a good Mullard or Philips Metal base GZ34, unless you are willing to have a hole machined in the lid of your LS 36.5 to accomodate the EML 5U4GB. It reallly is probably the best tube. I will ask my tech for the exact size hole dimension. The diameter is key as the tube is large in this dimension as well as tall.
It IS a drop-in replacement for the GZ34.
Thanks,
Dan
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I wanted to follow up on my earlier question regarding burn-in of tubes in the MWTP: I heard back from Dan who confirmed that the output stage does operate in Class A. So, based on Ian's input, that would imply that one need only have the tube-output circuit turned on, with no music streaming necessary, in order to burn-in the output tubes.
Yes then just running signal in should give you a good burn. Do listen to it whenever you can and if you have time let us know how it is sounding at different points on a fast burn.
Thanks,
Ian
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Hi Vlassis,
The hole punch I use is a GREENLEE slugbuster round punch #50 31967. It creates a hole that is 61.5mm or 2.416"in diameter.
Philistine will comment regarding the hole in his 36.5. It may differ in diameter, not positive if is identical.
You have to measure and judge where the center point of the rectifier socket is located and go for it!
Good luck,
John
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Here is a quick way to locate the center of the hole on your top plate that only requires a small investment in a laser level. Purchase a decent laser level, like one sold by Robo-Toolz. Place the preamp on a confirmed level surface and remove the top plate exposing the tube socket for the rectifier. Remove the rectifier tube. Here's the tricky part and you may have to improvise here: you will need to clamp the laser level in a fixed position directly above the preamp making sure it is held perpendicular to the level surface below (ie level on all bubbles applicable). You will need to turn the laser on and position that dot dead center of the tube socket. If you have a self leveling unit such as the FatMax made by Stanley that has a laser on a gimble mount you'll be a step ahead as that device will shoot a perpendicular beam straight downwards if held reasonably straight. You can rent those here - I don't know how easy that will be in your country, along with a tripod that allows the beam to shoot down. So now that you have the laser level fixed above the preamp with the dot shooting straight down into the center point of the socket, simply replace the cover plate and mark where the laser beam hits the cover. That should be dead center for your punch if you've done everything correct (this assumes that the socket is mounted straight of course - even if a bit off there should be enough wiggle room if you oversize the hole slightly).
Hi Vlassis,
The hole punch I use is a GREENLEE slugbuster round punch #50 31967. It creates a hole that is 61.5mm or 2.416"in diameter.
Philistine will comment regarding the hole in his 36.5. It may differ in diameter, not positive if is identical.
You have to measure and judge where the center point of the rectifier socket is located and go for it!
Good luck,
John
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I have been following the excitement related to the Treasures without the rudimentary understanding that my Transporter is one of the earlier conversions and takes the 9 pin smaller tube. My Treasures arrived and my stupidity was instantly made clear. I did get a note from Dan saying that there is a company called Colorado Cable that has adapters but I have come up empty on the site. There are some adapters that I've found that take 6CG7's to an octagonal receptacle that claim to work with the Treasures and 6SN7's. Any of you early converters have any advice for me on an adapter that will also raise the base high enough to clear the smaller cut on top of the Transporter? Will the 6CG7 adapter work? Thanks in advance for your help.
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brucel: you're looking for Bolder Cable Company; Wayne has a Circle here on AC!
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Here's the link to Boulder's adapter (http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-407/Octal-Tube-Adapter/Detail)
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Yes then just running signal in should give you a good burn. Do listen to it whenever you can and if you have time let us know how it is sounding at different points on a fast burn.
Thanks,
Ian
You bet. I'll post some initial impressions that I was holding off on simply because they are most definitely different than others have experienced with the tubes. I was waiting to see if things sorted themselves out.
As I said, my experience has been unique to everything else I've read here, and from what I heard from Dan, who I assume was commenting on a new pair since Phil said they were sent to him first. Straight out of the box I was disappointed. To be blunt, they sounded poor in comparison to the TSR's and the KenRad's that I'd directl replaced. The midrange was recessed, all sparkle was gone in the highs, and the overall sense was a flatter presentation. I thought, "uh-oh, what have I done?!". Sorry, but I can't explain this - I'm just calling it like I hear it. Nothing else was changed in my system (36.5 single-box with modded PS, DR's and Blackburn 5AR4, K150, MWTP (obviously) and Coincident Super Eclipse III speakers) - I just swapped out the output tubes and left the EML Mesh rectifier in place. So thinking I had some significant burn in ahead of me, after 6 hours of listening I took out the EML so as not to waste tube-life, and threw in a Tung-sol 5U4G I had (more on that), and left the unit on and with a signal running (didn't know about the Class A thing at that point). Two days later I decided to listen again. I first listened with the Tung-sol 5u4G rectifier in place....hey a bit better...more open, more forward...a bit more lively on top....lets put the EML back. Holy monster rectifier, Batman...I'd forgottoen how big a difference the John Holmes 5U4G mesh could make! Now there was presence in spades...no more recessed midrange, no more lifeless easy to walk-away-from music. Highs shimmered again and the bass was back in check (had sounded a bit flabby or even non-existent...I just don't remember...I was so disenchanted). So I'd guess I have about 60-80 hours on the tubes at this point. I certainly would not recognize this sound from when they were brand new..it truly bears no resemblance to my ears to those first 6-8 hours. I have yet to swap them back with the TSR's or the KenRads (which, btw, I also like as an alternate to TSR's which sound a bit more laid back and relaxed, while the KenRads seem to lend a bit more punch and dynamics). From memory (not always reliable) the Black Treasures have a leaning towards the lively end without introducing any stridency that I've noticed (I never got any of the sibilance one person has noticed). I am very pleased with what I'm hearing from them currently. I will write more on that when more time has passed and I actually swap back. For now, I thought that my experience was unique enough to warrant a post at this point.
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Treasure update #4
25 hours on the tubes now.
Back to fantastic!
These are amazingly pure sounding tubes.
The detail is outstanding. Where were those details before? With other tubes they were obscured, obviously, but by what? Lots of "WTF?" moments while listening these past few hours.
Dynamics are much more controlled than a few hours ago. A few hours ago dynamic passages were congested and harsh. Not so now.
Mid range is much more liquid sounding. Nora Jones' vocals no longer sound like sand paper on shale. Now she's just - uh, raspy. Naturally raspy.
Sound staging is now very wide and deep. Best ever with the MWTP in my system. Enveloping. Lush, even, with the right recording. Otherwise SSing is wide but natural - everything in its proper place and sized correctly.
Bass seems to go pretty deep. My system reproduces LFE style bass reasonably well and the Treasures do a better job with the lowest freqs than the TSRP do. There's far less bass bloom and now there's detail in these lowest notes. It's strange to hear a super deep synth note have some sort of phasing going on in it where before it was just a deep, round bass note drone.
Will they get better? Or back slide?
:thumb:
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Will they get better? Or back slide?
Based on my experience they will get better but you are probably in for a hilly ride.
Please continue to keep us posted.
Ken
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Great idea using a laser level, Marco. Also, I am with you on your observations of the Ken-Rads vs. the TSRs. I find myself switching between them...
vlasis- That black LS36.5 looks pretty sweet there brother. I didn't even know that was an option these days. :thumb:
and thanks to everyone for the updates on the Treasures.
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My Black Treasure tubes have arrived and I should be able to try them out tomorrow night. :thumb:
George
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An Abacus, your basic wooden ruler, rocks, a sharp chisel and a good eye is what I use, damnit!
You guys and your fussy new fangled fancy pants laser tools........young wipper snappers!
I guess you guys think those new cell phones are the real deal and not just a fad too?
Kids these days.............
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Has anybody tried Herbie's tube dampers with the Black Treasures?
If so, what size did you use?
Given the shape of the Black Treasures, I don't believe my current 6SN7 UltraSonic Rx Dampers will fit.
Thanks,
George
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Actually, you could do the exact same thing with a string and a plumb bob. May even be a bit easier! It's right there next to your abacus.
I'm posting this from my iPhone...LMAO!
An Abacus, your basic wooden ruler, rocks, a sharp chisel and a good eye is what I use, damnit!
You guys and your fussy new fangled fancy pants laser tools........young wipper snappers!
I guess you guys think those new cell phones are the real deal and not just a fad too?
Kids these days.............
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Has anybody tried Herbie's tube dampers with the Black Treasures?
If so, what size did you use?
Given the shape of the Black Treasures, I don't believe my current 6SN7 UltraSonic Rx Dampers will fit.
Thanks,
George
George:
I would also like to know what size Herbie Damper is required. I do not own calipers and would appreciate someone taking a measurement and publishing the result.
Ken
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I've been trolling around this thread for a few weeks now freeloading on the wisdom, hard-won through blood and sweat (and cash) of others, so I figured it was time to contribute for a change :D
I have a Modwright TP used with an Oritek-modded Zhaolu combo dac/preamp, fed into a Spectron Musician III mk 2 amp (too poor for the monoblocks yet), then on to Piega P10 speakers. The Oritek dac/pre was my reference, but the Modwright with stock tubes gave it a run for its money...still, I sometimes preferred the bass control, imaging, and treble extension of the Oritek unit (see below for my use of ext word clock with this). I'm still using a cheap Raytheon 5u4gb (waiting for the EML to get back in stock), but just got a pair of the Treasures over the weekend. Here's my brief impressions:
Out of the shipping package they sounded fantastic, light-years better than stock Russian tubes for sure, but quite a bit better also than the Ken-Rads which I had borrowed from someone (but had to return a couple of days prior much to my sadness...they were great-sounding tubes). Initial impression was very similar to what AB has described previously; beautiful 3D imaging, refined highs, lots and lots of details but not at all etched or analytic sounding, very dynamic (though maybe a hair less than I recall the Ken-Rads sounding). Really seemed to combine the best of "tube magic" and solid-state precision/bottom end tautness. Upright bass had more texture and less boom obscuring said texture. Very nice!
Within a few hours (maybe 10 or so) they lost a lot of the magic and got much more dry-sounding...actually sounded a lot closer to the solid-state Oritek DAC (really remarkable...I can AB them instantly with a click of the remote so I'm pretty convinced that the two DACs sounded very similar at this stage, whereas out of the box the Modwright with Treasures really stood out as superior in every parameter...bloom, air, microdynamics, tonal balance). Ugh, time for more burn in.
Currently I'm at about 60 hours and they're opening up again. Even more detail everywhere, but especially in the midrange. Bass extension has improved. Some of the soundstage and upper frequency magic has returned. Macrodynamics are still a bit muted though.
I anticipate these will continue to open up and I'm extremely impressed and grateful to those on the thread who pioneered the use of these.
Can't wait to hear what the EML will add!
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Can't wait to hear what the EML will add!
The combination of the Treasures with the EML 5U4G Mesh is just pure magic. :thumb:
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Thanks, can't wait to hear it!
Off topic a bit, but a brief word about my experience with external word clocks. When I still had a standard unmodded Transporter I picked up a Black Lion Audio Microclock Mk2 on audiogon for a great price (by audiophile standards...they retail for "only" $495). These are rugged little pro-audio-geared units with a switch-selectable clock frequency and a switching wallwart power supply. I used a BNC-BNC cable to feed its signal to the word clock input on my TP (after making the necessary settings adjustments in Squeezecenter). Holy &^$%, with the Oritek DAC (fed by the TP via SPDIF) the focus just snapped into place. Everything was more coherent, bass was tighter, violins had focus and detail. Stunning. I then took a 12 volt SLA battery and replaced the wallwart with it (after soldering an appropriate connector to some wire)...as imagined, it sounded even better.
So I tried the clock with the Modwright unit using the internal Transporter DAC. Definite improvement in focus, similar in qualities to what I heard when the TP was used as a transport to the external DAC, although maybe less dramatic (I think my external dac is very sensitive to jitter and showed more improvement for this reason).
If a cheapo clock like this can make such an obvious (to my tin ears) improvement, I can't imagine what a high quality external clock would do. As always, YMMV, but I highly recommend experimenting with external word clocks.
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Hold on there, Marco............this 'iphone' gizmo you are using prints words?
The next thing you'll try to tell me is you gave up using glass plate negatives for your commercial photography!
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Hi Vlasis, as promised here are pictures of the 36.5 with the EML 5U4G:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26211)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26210)
We've had temperatures as low as -18C here in Pittsburgh the last week, I just wish I was over with you in Korinthos where the climate is so good and the beautiful beaches...........
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brucel: you're looking for Bolder Cable Company; Wayne has a Circle here on AC!
Thanks Marco and Audioclyde for quick response. Really a nice little community going here. I've ordered the adapters.
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Thanks for the pics, Phil. Sorry to hear of the cold snap in your neck of the woods (oh how I hate the cold). I'm a big fan of Sistrum isolation, or I should say, at the risk of being very indiscreet, "nice rack!"...and there I go, just a rambling along. Snap back to the point...which is an aside to this thread (go figure) - In the application of your one-box 36.5, what are you hearing as differences in dropping in the EML 5U4G as opposed to a good 5AR4 (I use a Mullard)? That's a mighty big hole for a mighty big tube. By the picutures it appears you've got it cut pretty tightly to fit - is that by the measurement John figured out on his abacus? Seriously is that the punch measurement John indicated or smaller? I think if it were too tight one might risk transferring the vibrations of the case to the glass. Also it makes the slight rocking motion to remove the tube a bit limited. Maybe it's just the angle of the pictures. Are you using glass negatives? As far as the EML in the MWTP - I would very much agree that it has a profound effect on the sound. I was reminded of that in swapping back from the old Tungsol that I have.
Hi Vlasis, as promised here are pictures of the 36.5 with the EML 5U4G:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26211)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26210)
We've had temperatures as low as -18C here in Pittsburgh the last week, I just wish I was over with you in Korinthos where the climate is so good and the beautiful beaches...........
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Thanks Marco and Audioclyde for quick response. Really a nice little community going here. I've ordered the adapters.
Happy to help. I've also enjoyed this group of people - the thread and the people have been an invaluable resource to me in getting the most out of the MWTP. Let us hear about your experience with your new tubes when the adapters arrive. By all means enjoy it while you wait as it is certainly a great component with even the stock tubes!
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well, I have about 100hr on the BT as of tonight :D My goodness are these tubes good! As the other's have so eloquently stated, these tubes are in a class of their own. I've never heard my system sound SO good! The thing that really strikes me the most is the holographic 3D imaging and the soundstage - it's just crazy good to my ears. My speakers used to disappear before but now it's like I'm not listening to speakers - what emerges is a soundstage that I can mentally walk into and look around - it's wrap around and kind of bathes me ;) I hope I'm not sounding over the top but my goodness. The TNT review of the BT's compared them to what I've been using for several months - the Sylvania 6SN7WGT - I had the slightly tighter tolerance Gold Brand variety. The matching with the BT's is also crazy good - my Sylvania's were very closely matched by I can tell the BT's are better. I'm very sensitive to left/right image drift if tubes aren't 100% matched - with the BT's it's perfect. This is just my opinion in my system -) The Lagavulin scotch and a couple of Dogfish Head Indian Brown Ale may have influenced my opinion but only slightly;-)
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Marco - the hole in the 36.5 was made by John, so I assume he used the hole punch he refers to in his post. The EML you see in this picture is my original tube, the latest production has a slightly smaller overall dimension and is not such a tight fit.
When I initially ran my system with the EML in my 36.5 AND a second in the MWTP I found that the overall sound was very bass heavy and inarticulate. It was only when I installed Grover Huffman IC's and SC's that the combination of two 36.5 produced a very organic sound with fast, detailed and deep bass. It's only the last few weeks that my second KWA has burned in and the cables finalized, so I've not spent any time doing a detailed AB comparison with different rectifier tubes in the 36.5. I'll try and do this over the weekend and get back to you.
Tony - I think your comments on the Treasures nail it for me, I find the very holographic and 3D soundstage are the most noticeable benefit in my system.
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well, I have about 100hr on the BT as of tonight :D My goodness are these tubes good! As the other's have so eloquently stated, these tubes are in a class of their own. I've never heard my system sound SO good! The thing that really strikes me the most is the holographic 3D imaging and the soundstage - it's just crazy good to my ears. My speakers used to disappear before but now it's like I'm not listening to speakers - what emerges is a soundstage that I can mentally walk into and look around - it's wrap around and kind of bathes me ;) I hope I'm not sounding over the top but my goodness. The TNT review of the BT's compared them to what I've been using for several months - the Sylvania 6SN7WGT - I had the slightly tighter tolerance Gold Brand variety. The matching with the BT's is also crazy good - my Sylvania's were very closely matched by I can tell the BT's are better. I'm very sensitive to left/right image drift if tubes aren't 100% matched - with the BT's it's perfect. This is just my opinion in my system -) The Lagavulin scotch and a couple of Dogfish Head Indian Brown Ale may have influenced my opinion but only slightly;-)
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Hopefully I can find some time tonight to give them a try.
George
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Hallo again......i am thinking about the rectifiers valves the EML 5UG4 for my 36.5.
I need something to ask all of you that you use these valves.
What other components need for this modification exept the holes?
Do you need other socket,other resistors,capacitors or something else?Or you can put the valve in the socket and thats it?
I know my english are not so good but i hope to understand what i mean!!!!!!! :D :D
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Hallo again......i am thinking about the rectifiers valves the EML 5UG4 for my 36.5.
I need something to ask all of you that you use these valves.
What other components need for this modification exept the holes?
Do you need other socket,other resistors,capacitors or something else?Or you can put the valve in the socket and thats it?
I know my english are not so good but i hope to understand what i mean!!!!!!! :D :D
Hi vlasis, except for the hole in the top of the 36.5 it requires NO other modifications.
I will do some trials over the weekend with other rectifier tubes I have and post back the findings. You will then have more data points and can decide if its worthwhile to make any changes.
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I forgot something very important.........to thank you all for your answears and of cource Philistine :thumb: for photos and your answears!!!!!!!
I am waiting for the new results about rectifiers !!!!!!!! :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Hurry up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/liakos1/239-happy-face.jpg)
:green: :green:
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My Black Treasures continue to burn-in quite nicely. I was noticing some very nice tight bass yesterday, the likes of which I have not heard with that cut of music before. My friend, Peter, who also has a MWTP is coming by tonight for some take-out Chinese and listening. We'll have my BT tubes, along with a pair of TSR's, my KenRads, and Peter's bringing a couple of 7n7 variants he likes and his Loctal adapter. Should be an interesting comparison. Downside of trying to compare these output tubes is that we don't have another device to keep tubes warmed up in :cry: Anyway, I'll post some impressions if all goes well.
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Tell your friend to bring his MWTP to be used as a tube warmer.
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Tell your friend to bring his MWTP to be used as a tube warmer.
That would have been a good idea, and I thought of it, but too late - he's already in a place where it's not an option. So you'll have to take the impressions with that in mind. We will probably have ot rely on aural memory to some degree, or rather a greater degree, in order to give contenders time to warm.....wait...I have an idea....I may be able to keep a pair on deck warm using my tube tester! WE DO have a spare set of octal adapters - I can drop one tube into the Octal slot and the other into the 9-pin slot....not sure if that would work. Tester is a BK707 - would it run 6v to both tubes?
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Well the Black Treasures are in the system and running through one of my demo playlists (see details below) and I can't say that it is love at first listen. :(
Overall, I feel like the sound has taken a step backward when compared to my TSRP's. The music is less liquid, extended, and airy sounding. There is a bit of harshness in vocals and definitely less body and depth. While the bass draws more attention to itself than with the TSRP's, it is less tight and articulate.
Keep in mind I only have about 3 1/2 hours on the Black Treasures and reserve the right to change my views and thoughts as more hours get on the Black Treasures. I also don't have the Herbie's Rx Tube Dampers on them like I did with the TSRP's.
Demo Playlist (thanks Rydenfan for the great selection):
Corinne Bailey Rae - Like a Star
Kate Walsh - Your Song
Ray LaMontagne - You Can Bring me Flowers
The Decemberists - The Crane Wife 3
Ben Harper - Burn One Down
Ben Harper - Lay There & Hate Me
Michael Franti & Spearhead - Never Too Late
STS9 - GLOgli
Medeski, Martin & Wood - Miami Gato
Pink Floyd - Another Brick in the Wall Pt.2
Dave & Tim - Seek Up
Charlie Hayden & Pat Methany - First Song (For Ruth)
Phish (7/6/98) - Ghost
George
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Well the Black Treasures are in the system and running through one of my demo playlists (see details below) and I can't say that it is love at first listen. :(
Overall, I feel like the sound has taken a step backward when compared to my TSRP's. The music is less liquid, extended, and airy sounding. There is a bit of harshness in vocals and definitely less body and depth. While the bass draws more attention to itself than with the TSRP's, it is less tight and articulate.
Keep in mind I only have about 3 1/2 hours on the Black Treasures and reserve the right to change my views and thoughts as more hours get on the Black Treasures. I also don't have the Herbie's Rx Tube Dampers on them like I did with the TSRP's.
<snip>
George
Give them time, George. That's more akin to my experience straight out of the box. Per my previous post; Dan confirmed that circuit is running in class A so all you need to do is to leave the analog circuit switched on to give them full current.
Look forward to hearing how they change for you.
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Dan confirmed that circuit is running in class A
What does this mean?
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What does this mean?
In a simplistic metaphor, that may have been already shared here, it would be like if your car came to a stop and remained idling with a wide open throttle. Basically the tubes are idling at full-current. Someone correct me if I'm off base with that description.
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My Black Treasures continue to burn-in quite nicely. I was noticing some very nice tight bass yesterday, the likes of which I have not heard with that cut of music before. My friend, Peter, who also has a MWTP is coming by tonight for some take-out Chinese and listening. We'll have my BT tubes, along with a pair of TSR's, my KenRads, and Peter's bringing a couple of 7n7 variants he likes and his Loctal adapter. Should be an interesting comparison. Downside of trying to compare these output tubes is that we don't have another device to keep tubes warmed up in :cry: Anyway, I'll post some impressions if all goes well.
I will certainly be very interested to read your comments after the session!
Ken
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My friend, Peter (Peter_S here, and on Audiogon), came over tonight for a bit of tube rolling in the MWTP. He’s not been reading anything at all about the Black Treasure tubes (hasn’t been on this thread for a long, long time), and had no real preconceptions about them except that I had told him my initial experience with them and that they were turning out to be very nice tubes that he should hear. He has been playing with the 7N7 variants and agreed to bring over his Loctal adapters and several 7N7 options. We realized in looking at all the options, that we needed to narrow things down a bit so we chose 5 different output tubes to compare.
A few notes on our comparisons: This is by no means a highly scientific trial done with rigorous standards. It was not blind – we did both know just what we were listening to. Selections were not level-matched, except the best we could muster by ear. Each time we inserted a new pair of driver tubes we allowed them to warm-up for approximately 15 minutes, which made this a rather lengthy session. We chose five different cuts of music that we were both familiar with and that represented some diversity (but certainly not the entire spectrum as classical was sadly omitted for time’s sake). So what I’m getting at here is this was a very casually conducted tube rolling session, but I do feel the differences were quite clear, and sometimes quite surprising, as you will see by the results. YMMV, as always.
The music we chose to listen to:
Rickie Lee Jones, Bye Bye Blackbird, from “Pop Pop” (female vocals, soundstaging)
Antony, The Lake, from “The Lake” (EP) (black background, stark vocals and piano)
Radiohead, Pack’t Like Sardines, from “Amnesiac” (very dense, demanding layered, bass-driven with meters almost constantly in overdrive)
Achirana, The Spell (remarkable soundstaging, instrumental finesse, challenging instrumental material)
Greg Brown, Waiting On You, form “Covenant” (deep chesty male vocals)
System: MWTP, MW 36.5 with PS upgrade, MW KWA150, Coincident Super Eclipse III, good wire, some room treatment.
The Black Treasures I have probably have about 80+ hours or so of burn-in at this point. The TSR’s are 1942’s black glass. The KenRad’s are early 50’s I believe and have plenty over 100 hours. The 7N7’s Peter brought are from Andy at Vintage Tube Services (don’t know how much time he’s put on them). He brought others, but these were the two we chose to test as he knew he liked them – One was the more scarce Tall-bottle, this one labeled Philco, the other was the more common short-bottle which Peter says were only bade by Sylvania and relabled with various brands.
Without further ado, and for whatever it may be worth, here is our impressions of the tubes. We basically agreed on many details, and had only one preference differ in our ordering of our personal preferences of the five pairs of output tubes. Oh, I forgot to mention the EML mesh was doing rectification duties the entire time. Below is our ranking of how which we preferred, the first number is my rank, the second, Peter’s.
1/1 Black Treasure CV181Z Best balance of qualities among all 5. Clear and resolving without being aggressive or at all strident. Good soundstage, although topped by Philco Tall Bottle. Best bass of all, deep and well resolved. Great sustain. Symbols and Piano sounded particularly natural.
2/2 Short Bottle 7N7
A lot of sustain. Closer to Black Treasure in many respects than any of the others. A bit sibilant on The Lake. Nice soundstage. I thought they were ever so slightly harder-edged than BT if I had to make a distinction. There were some details brought out with these tubes that we did not notice with other tubes.
3/4 KenRad VT231
Nice sounding, easy to like, didn’t do anything wrong, yet not as engaging when directly compared like this, didn’t have the snap or crispness of short bottle or BT. Very easy to enjoy on its own merits though.
4/3Philco Tall Bottle 7N7
Widest soundstage. Vocals can get aggressive or artificial (mostly on Greg Brown, could be recording). Overall a more forward presentation, with clarity and good separation (both 7n7 tubes shared that quality, though this tall version could tend to sound aggressive at times)
5/5 Tungsol Round Plate TSR
Soundstage muddied on busy music, vocals a bit veiled, more laid back, lost shimmer on high end, lost splash, lost sustain. Midrange (vocal) bump pushed vocals forward and the extremes back. Shockingly, to both of us, we found the TSR’s here to be the least favorite for both of us among the five we tested. This was entirely unexpected. Peter has a good tester and he’s going to test them this weekend.
Overall, we both ended up preferring the very even-handed qualities of the Black Treasures. They just seemed to do everything better and we really could not find fault with them. They were lively and detailed, clear and natural with great soundstaging and great sustain. They took the most challenging passages in stride. They were on the forward side of presentation, yet never sounded aggressive. Not very far behind was the short bottle 7N7 tube (Sylvania rebranded) from Vintage Tube Service. At around $60/pair this represented huge bang for the buck, but the BT’s show them up with really absolutely now weaknesses that would take away from them. The real surprise was how poorly the TSR’s sounded in the lineup and I’m thinking perhaps they’ve just worn out. We’ll find out when Peter tests them.
A big thanks to Peter for bringing over his 7n7’s and Loctal adapter, and for lending a golden ear (two actually) to the comparison. Ian, I’ll bet you’ll have a new customer real soon and a repeat customer in me!
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26309)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26310)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26311)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26312)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26313)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26314)
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Are all these babys yours Marco???????/ :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows:
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Thanks for the great post Marco.
I am very keen to see how the TSRP measure. What you describe is definitely different from what I hear in my system.
George
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Great review Marco, thanks for posting your findings. I have a few 7N7's and they are a very nice tube, owenmd has a preference for these but I can see the Black Treasures on his horizon in the very near future :eyebrows:
George - what rectifier tube are you using in the TP? I recall that you had a preference in the past for the BEL, while it appears that all of the Treasure lovers are using the EML.
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George - what rectifier tube are you using in the TP? I recall that you had a preference in the past for the BEL, while it appears that all of the Treasure lovers are using the EML.
Phil,
I am using the EML.
George
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Are all these babys yours Marco???????/ :eyebrows: :eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Most of those are Peter's foray into the world of 7N7's. Way more tubes than we had time to test. As it was we listened to the same five cuts for close to three hours. The Tungsols and Black Treasures were my contribution. I think Peter probably paid as much for all of the other tubes as the single pair of TSR's cost me! 7N7's are very reasonably priced.
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Thanks for the great post Marco.
I am very keen to see how the TSRP measure. What you describe is definitely different from what I hear in my system.
George
One interesting point that comes to mind, George: As I mentioned, Peter's been playng with 7N7's for a while. I'd loaned him my TSR's to listen to in his system and compare. Peter has a truly great system and an outstanding purpose-built room. It is very different from my system and the only similarity in fact is the MWTP at the front end. Both our systems are very resolving, but Peter's takes it a step further I would say. His speakers are Avalon Indras and the rest of the system is right up to speed (I'll let him list it and comment further if he likes). In comparing the TSR's to the 7N7's in his system he thought he preferred the TSR's as being more natural...more musical sounding, albeit laid back...polite.
That said, I would still give the tubes more time as they reall do change a whole lot in the first 80+ hours I've had them...I hope they stay this way or get better still, but we'll see. If I had judged them right away you would have seen them on sale here as they sounded awful right out of the box. Then again, they may not work as well in your system, or you may not like their very detailed presentation (or whatever they are giving you) in comparison to the options. This stuff is all entirely subjective, which is where the YMMV comes in. Let us know how they work out. Leave the output circuit on for several days and check them out after 3-4 days. Hey, if you don't like them, you'll have a very easy sale right here. Peter definitely wants a pair!
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Great review Marco, thanks for posting your findings. I have a few 7N7's and they are a very nice tube, owenmd has a preference for these but I can see the Black Treasures on his horizon in the very near future :eyebrows:
Happy to give back something to this generous list of contributors! Yes, Peter and I were both impressed with the 7N7 option....it really did do a whole lot of things right and the short tube version was very close to the strengths of the BT. Still, if you wanted the best, the BT ruled the evening. We went back in the end to try the BT again, and the 7N7 shorts again (the only tubes we tried twice - albeit a faster pass-through of the music). Nothing new was revealed and it confirmed everything we had opined the first time through. As I said to George, in Peter's system he was tending toward the TSR's so my take on that is pretty much what I tell everyone: Test this stuff with your own ears, in your own room, with your own system and your own music. Both the BT's and 7N7's are definitely worth checking out. I'm still puzzled by the TSR results. One thing that came through loud and clear is that the MWTP is just a wonderful front end regardless of tube choice. None of the choices really made it easy to walk away, but they were clearly different from one another.
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Interesting review Marco.... thanks very much.
I've been using 7N7's and 7AF7's for many months now as I found I preferred them to your "average" 6SN7's with generally more detail and realism. The 7AF7 was my favorite for several months, but I then found some RCA short bottle 7N7's that had practically the same amount of detail, but were a little more cohesive with better separation and made more sense of the soundstage.
My current tube of choice is the Delco tall bottle 7N7.... the same one you mention in your review. Funny, I tried this in my system a long time ago and found it a little dark and heavy, if generally sounding quite nice. Thats when I went to the RCA's which had a preferable balance.... but as I've got gradually better cables and other power upgrades etc, the results have reversed. I guess this means that theres probably no "best" tube, but more likely there's a tube that best suits your system.... and this can be a dynamic situation over time...?
Cheers,
Mark
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Having said that..... I was one of the first adopters of the EML rectifier and I settled on this tube because even though other NOS tubes did great things in certain areas.... I didn't find one that excelled in all. The EML was the first tube I tried that had very few weak spots and just sounded very balanced overall.... plus its other strengths obviously.
Even though the 7N7's are my current choice, they're not perfect to my ears and system.... I'm eagerly awaiting the long-term and hopefully unbiased conclusions on the Treasures to see if these are to be my next "EML"...? It sounds like they should last a long time... which is a good thing at their cost. :o
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Needless to say, based solely upon what we heard, if you like the 7N7 sound you'll probably like the BT's. I would like to try the same comparison in a month, given how much change there has been in 80+ hours.
Having said that..... I was one of the first adopters of the EML rectifier and I settled on this tube because even though other NOS tubes did great things in certain areas.... I didn't find one that excelled in all. The EML was the first tube I tried that had very few weak spots and just sounded very balanced overall.... plus its other strengths obviously.
Even though the 7N7's are my current choice, they're not perfect to my ears and system.... I'm eagerly awaiting the long-term and hopefully unbiased conclusions on the Treasures to see if these are to be my next "EML"...? It sounds like they should last a long time... which is a good thing at their cost. :o
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Phil,
I am using the EML.
George
Thanks for the update George.
I can't help with the burn-in, Dan had the tubes first and my burn-in process was leaving them playing all day while I was working.
Phil
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Just got a pair of Black Treasure CV-181s. Replaced the EML with the stock GE rectifier and left the analog circuit on per Marcos research to break them in a lil bit. Plan on putting about 100 hrs on them before first listen. Unlike my 6SN7s they fit real tight in the adpaters, really gotta force them in. I got same adpaters as Marco from FL vendor.
Too complicate matters I also bought a quad of Black Treasure KT-88s in my Amp (replaced quad of GE NOS 6550s) and am forced to break them in slowly since I don't have cheap tubes to burn them in with.
Since I'm a lil impatient after 50hrs on these KT-88s, I know i'm gonna be rolling those CV-181s. I read the all the reviews and don't expect them to be anything less then my favorites, but hearing is believing. Will add my .02 cents in due time.
Wanna thank you guys for all the great feedback, keep it coming!
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(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv26/porcelanas/IMG_6621.jpg)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv26/porcelanas/IMG_6622.jpg)
Do you like my 36.5??
I am using plexi glass cause i like to see the valves at night!!!!
And also if i bought the EML i can open a hole to the plexi....
Tell me your opinion is it wrong or not?
Is it bad for the inside temperature?
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Hi Vlasis, looks very cool! If the temp is not excessive - I see you added good amounts of vent holes, then it should not be a problem. Glad that you are enjoying it!
Take care my friend! I still need to send you your HD's back!
Dan
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Black Treasure Update #5
25 -> 35 hours. Meh. Dreary and boring. No inner glow. Flat SS and no 3D anything.
35 -> 40 or so. Better but no Nobel Prize in Music. Where did the highs go?
45 -> 50 hours. Back to Meh. Boomy loose bass. No detail. Veiled vocals again. Haven't sounded magical since 25 hours.
I'm re grouting the shower rather than listen.
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Well my Black Treasures have been running for almost 5 days straight at this point and there is definitely a change in how they sound.
I will do some listening tomorrow night and report on what I am hearing.
George
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Black Treasure Update #5
25 -> 35 hours. Meh. Dreary and boring. No inner glow. Flat SS and no 3D anything.
35 -> 40 or so. Better but no Nobel Prize in Music. Where did the highs go?
45 -> 50 hours. Back to Meh. Boomy loose bass. No detail. Veiled vocals again. Haven't sounded magical since 25 hours.
I'm re grouting the shower rather than listen.
Hey AB,
When you get done regrouting your shower, come over and do mine... I'll let you hear what a great pair of BT's sound like with a couple hundred hours on them!
Have you tried them with different rectifiers yet?
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Hey AB,
When you get done regrouting your shower, come over and do mine... I'll let you hear what a great pair of BT's sound like with a couple hundred hours on them!
Have you tried them with different rectifiers yet?
Nope, no different rectifiers other than the EML.
I'm glad you're loving the BTs. There's hope...
The regrouting is beyond ugly. Don't make me post pics!
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Well the Black Treasures are in the system and running through one of my demo playlists (see details below) and I can't say that it is love at first listen. :(
Overall, I feel like the sound has taken a step backward when compared to my TSRP's. The music is less liquid, extended, and airy sounding. There is a bit of harshness in vocals and definitely less body and depth. While the bass draws more attention to itself than with the TSRP's, it is less tight and articulate.
Keep in mind I only have about 3 1/2 hours on the Black Treasures and reserve the right to change my views and thoughts as more hours get on the Black Treasures. I also don't have the Herbie's Rx Tube Dampers on them like I did with the TSRP's.
Demo Playlist (thanks Rydenfan for the great selection):
Corinne Bailey Rae - Like a Star
Kate Walsh - Your Song
Ray LaMontagne - You Can Bring me Flowers
The Decemberists - The Crane Wife 3
Ben Harper - Burn One Down
Ben Harper - Lay There & Hate Me
Michael Franti & Spearhead - Never Too Late
STS9 - GLOgli
Medeski, Martin & Wood - Miami Gato
Pink Floyd - Another Brick in the Wall Pt.2
Dave & Tim - Seek Up
Charlie Hayden & Pat Methany - First Song (For Ruth)
Phish (7/6/98) - Ghost
George
Well I have about 125+ hours on the Black Treasures at this point and I can safely say that they have changed since the the first few hours of use. Accordingly, my impressions have changed as well. :-)
The most noticeable change is in the bass. Things have tightened up considerably - in fact, I am getting the best bass yet in terms of slam and drive. I still do feel that the TSRP's have the edge in conveying the shading and nuances though. But if you really want to rock out...I don't think the BT's will have a peer in this area.
Some of the harshness I was first hearing with the BT's has smoothed over and the sound is definitely less fatiguing than during those first few hours. Still not as organic and liquid sounding as the TSRP's though.
Sound stage has opened up and is more well defined with BT's now, but it isn't producing the same front to back depth that I get from the TSRP's.
If the BT's don't continue to change and improve, I am not sure whether I would pick the TSRP's or BT's as my primary 6SN7 tubes for the Modwright. Previously, the TSRP's were my clear favorites over other very nice sounding tubes (Raytheon, Ken-Rads, Sylvania, etc...), but now I feel like there isn't a clear and dominant choice. Each has some very strong attributes that I prize and choosing one will be tough.
Let's see what another 100-200 hours brings.
George
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Thanks for the update George. I hope you will continue to provide us with future updates as you get more time with the Treasures.
Ken
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My Treasures are well broken in, and my sentiments are similar to what I think George is hearing...the Treasures are 'tighter' than the TSRP's, but sometimes I have to drop the round plates back in and enjoy what they do so well. I've found that for my tastes the Treasures + Amperex metal plate gz34 is too much of great detail, with the Treasures I prefer the High Wycombe cv378 (my new EML 5U4G is on its way :icon_lol:--not going to break this one!!); with the TSRP's I may prefer the gz34 over the cv378....maybe, its really close. Kind of depends on my mood and type of music.
But its great that we have choices!!!
Has anyone tried the reissue TS 6sn7's? I read the Jim McShane thinks very highly of them...
Randy
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So, I last posted in April of last year. Wow. That's been awhile ago. I fully intend to catch myself up on all the experiments you guys have undergone in the last 10 months, but I thought I would still post my question in case I don't find the answer.
I am still running stock tubes in my TP to a pair of Linkwitz Orions. I love so much about my system, but it has a slightly shouty presentation on a lot of rock. Believe me, I realize that is probably more an effect of rock recording and mixing. But I thought if a different set of tubes would warm it up a bit I would have exactly what I am looking for. I would like to experiment on the cheaper end of the scale, so if I could get some affordable suggestions it would be much appreciated. I mostly want to play right now. I will get more serious (no doubt) after I have heard the differences an affordable tube makes.
Back in April Cleartop RCA's were popular, as were Raytheons and Ken Rad VT231's. Are these still considered a good launch pad? Also, I see there is a 100 dollar Amperex 5AR4 on A'gon. Would it be smarter to just bump my price point to 220 to get the EML? It seems to be universally loved.
Thanks,
Michael
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Michael - I'd look at the speaker>amp interface as the primary suspect in the kind of stridency that you describe. I don't know that rolling tubes at the source is going to address the problems you are having with a "shouty presentation" (poor recordings notwithstanding). At best you will be putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.
That said, you'll probably find that folks here agree only generally on tube combinations, while each have their own specific favorite flavor combinations. Up until recently a good many liked the EML+TSR combo which is quite expensive. Now the TSR's are being replaced by Black Treasure tubes from Shuguang though the jury is still out on those. I've never warmed up to any 5AR4 combination that I've tried (while others have certainly liked them), including Blackburn Mullards. I do like the military Mullard GZ32 and GZ37 options better in the realms of the more affordable options. I thought the Mullard CV378 sounded pretty damn good in my box, and can be found for under $100. The EML 5U4g is king in my book, but certainly more expensive and worth it for all it brings to the table. I haven't done enough experimenting with 9-pin tubes to comment other than the Cleartop RCA's were pretty good, but easily bested by various Octal options (requires an adapter for your MWTP). Yes, I'd say the Ken Rad VT231's offer big bang for the buck in what the Octal option has to offer.
Bottom line: If you are trying to solve the shouty problem then a good place to start would be not be rolling tubes IMHO. I would be looking at the speaker/crossover/drivers, as well as the speaker>amp interface. Just one opinion though.
So, I last posted in April of last year. Wow. That's been awhile ago. I fully intend to catch myself up on all the experiments you guys have undergone in the last 10 months, but I thought I would still post my question in case I don't find the answer.
I am still running stock tubes in my TP to a pair of Linkwitz Orions. I love so much about my system, but it has a slightly shouty presentation on a lot of rock. Believe me, I realize that is probably more an effect of rock recording and mixing. But I thought if a different set of tubes would warm it up a bit I would have exactly what I am looking for. I would like to experiment on the cheaper end of the scale, so if I could get some affordable suggestions it would be much appreciated. I mostly want to play right now. I will get more serious (no doubt) after I have heard the differences an affordable tube makes.
Back in April Cleartop RCA's were popular, as were Raytheons and Ken Rad VT231's. Are these still considered a good launch pad? Also, I see there is a 100 dollar Amperex 5AR4 on A'gon. Would it be smarter to just bump my price point to 220 to get the EML? It seems to be universally loved.
Thanks,
Michael
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Hi Grenamc,
In general I agree with Marco.... although it will be a lot simpler and cheaper to mess with a little relatively inexpensive tube rolling to see if this gets you in the right direction.... if it doesn't help, you obviously have issues elsewhere. Poor power for example can sound harsh and aggressive, as can all components and cables and the effect is obviously cumulative. Any one or two on their own can be fine.... but added together and the result is unpleasant.
Like Marco, I've found the bigger power tubes like the 6sn7 and 7n7's easily best the smaller tubes and are well worth the cost of an adapter from Wayne, ebay chinese or other sources. You can get excellent NOS power tubes for $10- $25 a pop from some places.
I also prefer the GZ37 and GZ32 types to the GZ34's.... although the NOS RCA 5U4g's are also great as are the Russian sourced svetlana 5U4g's you can get on ebay for only around $25 a pair.... the RCA's are warmer and smoother and the Russian tubes are more detailed, cleaner and leaner. Like most, I haven't found anything better than the EML overall... but its pricey!
Mark
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Thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated. It's interesting you suggested I look at my amps first, because that is exactly what I played with today. I pulled my HT amp out and powered the mid range and tweeters with it (Orions are active crossover, so a channel per driver). Night and day difference. Nice and musical without losing detail. So, I know what I need to do. I just have to decide how to do it. I will definitely look at the tube options you guys both mentioned. I am still interested in rolling just to see what happens.
Thanks again,
Michael
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So....exept the price,you think that the EML is the best rectifier valve for the 36.5 preamp???
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So....exept the price,you think that the EML is the best rectifier valve for the 36.5 preamp???
Just to be clear I have always been referring to rolling tubes in the Transporter. In my 36.5 I am using Mullard/Blackburn 5AR4's and haven't tried the EML there, nor any 5U4G/gz32/gz37 option. Currently my rack is preventing me from doing that, but that may change soon.
In the Transporter the EML is a clear winner, so much so that the price is a moot point to me. I don't know that this would necessarily carry over to the 36.5, but Phil seems to like it there. There is a thread about tube rolling in the 36.5 here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56330.0), though it needs some revitalization as it's not nearly as popular as this thread.
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FWIW, the current production Tung-Sol reissues are quite good and we are shipping new Transporter mods with them as stock.
Thanks,
Dan
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So....exept the price,you think that the EML is the best rectifier valve for the 36.5 preamp???
Vlasis - I lined up an EML:Ruby showdown for you in the 36.5, unfortunately this got postponed by having to clear the snow after the storms we had in the NE. Last weekend was out due to a birthday celebration. I'll try and get this done for you, and others, this weekend!
Phil
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Vlasis - I lined up an EML:Ruby showdown for you in the 36.5, unfortunately this got postponed by having to clear the snow after the storms we had in the NE. Last weekend was out due to a birthday celebration. I'll try and get this done for you, and others, this weekend!
Phil
EML vs Ruby?!? :?: Why not give the EML some real competition? My experience with Ruby's rectifier is, well, they're OK I guess, but they're no EML or Mullard. No idea how it will pan out in the 36.5, but the Ruby vs the Mullard in mine wasn't worth more than a few moment's consideration...IMHO, of course.
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EML vs Ruby?!? :?: Why not give the EML some real competition? My experience with Ruby's rectifier is, well, they're OK I guess, but they're no EML or Mullard. No idea how it will pan out in the 36.5, but the Ruby vs the Mullard in mine wasn't worth more than a few moment's consideration...IMHO, of course.
This was a specific request from vlasis, as he's using a Ruby currently. I'll try and throw a few more in the mix!
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This was a specific request from vlasis, as he's using a Ruby currently. I'll try and throw a few more in the mix!
Ah, thanks for that clarification. Yeah, if you can throw any of the usual suspects (Blackburn 5AR4, Mullard GZ37) in there I would be very interested in how they compared.
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Compare a 5U4GB, if you have one, vs an EML in the 36.5. Thanks.
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Here is another perspective on burn-in of tubes.
http://www.jacmusic.com/html/club/FAQ-about-burn-in.pdf
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Since 10 days i am using a Sylvania 5U4GB Black plate nos (1979) and i must say that the results are very goods with this valve.Of cource the difference from the Ruby is very big.....with tight bass,biger stage with lot of musicallity and beter focus in music.Of cource i must say to you that the Sylvania its biger in size and you need to open a hole to put it inside to the 36.5--thats why i am using plexi glass with many holes for the air and i am happy.
I am waiting for the EML for the final tests.....I am seeking for the winner for my 36.5!!!!
Hallo Phill and Marco....
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Semi off-topic question, but it is about the 36.5. Are any of you previous owners of the SWL9.0 Signature Edition and, if so, can you compare the 2 pre-amps?
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:cry: Sad day for me today, I flipped on the switch of my Transporter and my EML decided not to glow. I swapped it out for my HW CV-378, and that one fired right up. My guess is that my EML had about 600 hours on it. IMO that is a painfully short lifespan for an expensive tube like the EML. There is no denying that it does it's job exceptionally well, but I am a little reluctant to buy another one if it won't even last me a year...
After emailing with George at TubesUSA, it would seem that the lifespan can vary greatly from a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on the individual tube and it's application. He also mentioned that if the tube was showing some grey carbonization on the inner envelope of glass, it may be getting too much voltage, which would in turn lead to a shorter life. Mine runs behind a voltage regulating power conditioner that restricts voltage to 120 (+/- 3v), and showed no such carbonization.
So, now that many of us have had the EML for a while, and some are on to their second tube, would you guys mind sharing the approximate hours that your EMLs are lasting. If 600 hours seems to be common number for use in the Transporter, I'm not sure that I will go for a second one.
I have no regrets about the first one... just wish that it had lasted a little longer. :?
Cheers
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:cry: Sad day for me today, I flipped on the switch of my Transporter and my EML decided not to glow. I swapped it out for my HW CV-378, and that one fired right up. My guess is that my EML had about 600 hours on it. IMO that is a painfully short lifespan for an expensive tube like the EML. There is no denying that it does it's job exceptionally well, but I am a little reluctant to buy another one if it won't even last me a year...
After emailing with George at TubesUSA, it would seem that the lifespan can vary greatly from a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on the individual tube and it's application. He also mentioned that if the tube was showing some grey carbonization on the inner envelope of glass, it may be getting too much voltage, which would in turn lead to a shorter life. Mine runs behind a voltage regulating power conditioner that restricts voltage to 120 (+/- 3v), and showed no such carbonization.
So, now that many of us have had the EML for a while, and some are on to their second tube, would you guys mind sharing the approximate hours that your EMLs are lasting. If 600 hours seems to be common number for use in the Transporter, I'm not sure that I will go for a second one.
I have no regrets about the first one... just wish that it had lasted a little longer. :?
Cheers
My EML died a few weeks ago as well (without any grey carbonization or soot).
I can't really say how many hours I had on it, but the tube was less than a year old. If I had to guess, I would say between 500-1000 hrs.
George basically said all the same things to me about the voltage. He was very knowledgeable and a good guy.
That being said, I agree with you that for the cost of the tube, I would expect (actually...demand) better reliability and tube life.
I went with a second EML (bought lightly used from a friend who no longer needs it), but I am not sure if I would have done so at the full price.
George
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Man, that's certainly disheartening to hear about these two early EML failures. That's a pathetic tube life for a rectifier tube in my experience, and definitely an expensive investment when the lifespan is considered. I hope this is not normal. There was a post I read back in December, '09 on a Head-Fi where somenone said they'd heard from EML that they were reducing the size of the bottle for the 5u4g tubes. Can anyone confirm or deny that (Valvesaglowin/George?) - anyone get one of the current production run from George? I wonder if that will have any impact on the life issue that is at play here, and whether it reflects a redesign of the tube's innards as well? Mine's still working fine. It'll be a year old at the end of April. I could only guess hours on it...not many as this has been a busy year...perhaps 400-500 hours.
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Marco, I just received a replacement EML 5U4G from George last week (my 1st tube's failure was all my bungling fingers' fault), and it looks the same as my 1st at least to my eyes.
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So what's happening with the EMLs? They are just not lighting up - the heater filaments are shot?
Zybar's took out a fuse but funkmonkey's just didn't light. Are these two separate failure modes?
Has anyone checked the voltage and amperage in their TP's transformer's heater tap after an EML failure to be certain it's outputting the proper numbers?
I really would hate to think the EMLs are only good for 600 or so hours run within their ideal range.
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Hello Marco,
The recent production of the 5U4G mesh tubes have the smaller glass envelopes. Many of the current tubes(some output tubes & all rectifiers)have had their bottle sized reduced to reflect the size similar to their original (ST shaped)counterparts. This in itself does not mean that the newer envelopes are superior to the older ones, just more in line with their size from a physical standpoint.
Best,
George
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Can anyone that is using the Shuguang Treasure tubes with the Bolder adapters tell me how high the tube sticks up from the lid of the Transporter?
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Can anyone that is using the Shuguang Treasure tubes with the Bolder adapters tell me how high the tube sticks up from the lid of the Transporter?
I think the Bolder adapters are just a bit shorter than mine. My treasures stick up just about exactly the height of the EML Mesh. I'll have to measure and post later.
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So what's happening with the EMLs? They are just not lighting up - the heater filaments are shot?
Zybar's took out a fuse but funkmonkey's just didn't light. Are these two separate failure modes?
Has anyone checked the voltage and amperage in their TP's transformer's heater tap after an EML failure to be certain it's outputting the proper numbers?
I really would hate to think the EMLs are only good for 600 or so hours run within their ideal range.
The EML is rated for 5 volts at 3 amps. My Transporter is past warranty and I had a local audio technician check the votage the transformer is sending to the EML Tube. He measured 5.16 volts on my unit and recommended against adding a resistor to try and make the voltage any closer to 5 volts. The technician said I could expect to get some voltage variation from the grid and that the tube should be able to handle the small variation my transformer was sending to it.
If you decide to check the voltage being sent to your EML Rectifier please be careful or better still have someone that understands DC voltage check it for you. If you are sending upwards of 6 volts to the EML tube you need to consider adding a resistor to drop the voltage or switch to a NOS tube because the EML is not going to tolerate it.
Also, I don't know if any of us has enough experience to know what type of life to expect from the EML Mesh Rectifiers or from the Black Treasure Signal Tubes. While they sound great, if we cannot achieve more than 1500 hours of life their cost performance ratio will be unacceptable for me.
Ken
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I think the Bolder adapters are just a bit shorter than mine. My treasures stick up just about exactly the height of the EML Mesh. I'll have to measure and post later.
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To mca's query: As best as I can measure the Black Treasures and Boulder adapter stick up 5 1/2" above the top of the Transporter. The new production run of the EML 5U4G Meshplate is 4 7/8". Hope this helps.
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To mca's query: As best as I can measure the Black Treasures and Boulder adapter stick up 5 1/2" above the top of the Transporter. The new production run of the EML 5U4G Meshplate is 4 7/8". Hope this helps.
Yes it does, thank you!
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I just wanted to jump in here and assure you all that George and I are in regular contact and that we have, since inception of any issues with this tube in the transporter, updated every aspect of our PS design to insure that EVERYTHING is within spec. Anyone who has asked about using the EML tube has been asked to verify the vintage and status of their unit before using.
George, myself and the EML factory have ALL been QUITE diligent in addressing all of these issues. It is a great tube and just want to assure everyone of all of our respective commitment to providing a quality and reliable product.
Sincerely,
Dan W.
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Hi Dan. Any issues with it in your tubed 9100 power supply? I'm using it along with 7044s.
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I just bought a pair of Alex's 9 pin to octal adapters for my Black Treasures. I've just tried inserting the BTs into the adapters and they will not push into and locate in the adapters so they are little more than resting on the metal sockets in the adapters. i have tried pushing as hard as I dare but I am worried about breaking the BTs! I assume the pins on the BTs should push all the way home?
Do you think the adapters are faulty?
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I just bought a pair of Alex's 9 pin to octal adapters for my Black Treasures. I've just tried inserting the BTs into the adapters and they will not push into and locate in the adapters so they are little more than resting on the metal sockets in the adapters. i have tried pushing as hard as I dare but I am worried about breaking the BTs! I assume the pins on the BTs should push all the way home?
Do you think the adapters are faulty?
I reported a similar problem in my adaptors, eventually I got them to fit but real tight. On a side note, I put back the TS rounds for a lil while and they were still great but treasures sound more dynamic and they probably ended my quest for ultimate signal tube for MWTP (for now..lol)
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Well, I miss the EML enough to try again. Just sent an email to George requesting a new one. Heres to hoping for a long lived EML this time around. :)
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My 6 month old MW Transporter measured filament AC voltage for the rectifier tube as 5.25 V with 119 volts input; no tube in circuit (mains regulated by PS Audio regenerator). It appears to be a little hot coming off Dan's transformer, as specs call for 5 volts at the filament for the EML 5U4G tube. Maybe this high voltage is shorting the life of these tubes.
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The AC voltage to the rectifier filament needs to be measured with a tube IN the circuit. This will draw down the actual measured voltage somewhat. A measurement without load is not accurate.
Thanks,
Dan W.
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Thanks Dan. I was not sure how much draw down would occur with the filament load on the secondary. I'll have to open the case to remeasure that. However, I'm still concerned with some of the premature failures of these expensive rectifier tubes.
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I hate to say it but my EML is dead now. It was in my SWLP with the latest power supply upgrade. I was actually more concerned with the other one I had in the Transporter. It would flash slightly on turn on. Now I have my one remaing EML back in the SWLP and back to the metal base in the Transporter.
I'm a bit nervous staying with the EML now.
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I hate to say it but my EML is dead now. It was in my SWLP with the latest power supply upgrade. I was actually more concerned with the other one I had in the Transporter. It would flash slightly on turn on. Now I have my one remaing EML back in the SWLP and back to the metal base in the Transporter.
I'm a bit nervous staying with the EML now.
Bummer. How old was it? Where were you seeing the spark/flash? Did it take out a fuse?
Bummer.
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My EML meshplate died prematurely as well. They lasted less than 8 months. Probably a little more than 500 hours. I spoke with George who suggested that the high voltage in my house (125-127V) could have been the cause of the EML's premature demise. He suggested a variac in my system. I dutifully bought 2 on EBay. One for each of my systems. I also bought 2 more replacement EML's. I asked Dan about the variac in the system and he said that the voltage in the TP can be reduced internally. I since noticed that Squeezebox Server shows at least 5 volts less than what my meter measures from the variac, making me think that my TP is already set for this reduced voltage. I don't know how I didn't notice this before as I'm sure I obsess about this stuff like the rest of you. If this voltage difference was there all along and I don't know why it wouldn't have been, it renders moot the high voltage coming into my house as the Transporter would have been seeing 120-122 volts.
I have also tried most of the tube combinations recommended on this site. They all make a difference and they are all highly system dependent. With all the new tubes and all of the swapping I'm wondering if I will ever hear my system settled in and stable. Or if listening to tubes breaking in will be my lot in hi-fi hell.
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On the topic of incoming power to the TP. Anyone else got a message from the TP, I forgot the exact message, power overload or exceeded. Then the TP would stop working, comes back up after unplug then plug in. Don't know why or where it is sensing that. I have a power conditioner in front of it and the rest of the equipments, and SUPPOSE to get a constant voltage feed. Other equipments seemed OK. This happens every now and then, before & after the MOD.
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Bummer. How old was it? Where were you seeing the spark/flash? Did it take out a fuse?
Bummer.
It was a little over a year. The spark, or more like a sparkling, is the one good one I still have. It does it on power up in both the TP and the SWLP. No, it didn't take out the fuse.
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Seems like a good number of us had their EML tube die between 500-1000 hours...does anybody have an EML tube that they have used in their TP with over 1000 hours?
While George and Dan have been super supportive and great as usual, I am still very concerned with this short tube life for such an expensive tube.
George
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me too... George was in between shipments when I contacted him last. I may have to wait a while more... 500 ish hours is way too short
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The EML guarantee is for 12 months or 2000 hours which ever comes first. But reading the details gives me the impression it might not be that simple.
http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/guarantee/conditions.htm (http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/guarantee/conditions.htm)
Has anyone had an EML tube replaced under their guarantee?
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On the topic of incoming power to the TP. Anyone else got a message from the TP, I forgot the exact message, power overload or exceeded. Then the TP would stop working, comes back up after unplug then plug in. Don't know why or where it is sensing that. I have a power conditioner in front of it and the rest of the equipments, and SUPPOSE to get a constant voltage feed. Other equipments seemed OK. This happens every now and then, before & after the MOD.
Probably nothing you need to worry about.
IIRC there was a software bug in one of the transporter updates that caused it to falsely report power problems. I believe this is solved if you have the latest EEPROM update.
You can search on the Squeezebox Community forum (was a post by Sean Adams that discussed the bug).
Hope this helps!
Frank
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Frank,
Thanks for the reply.
My SqueezeBox Server information:
Version: 7.4.2 - r30215 @ Mon Feb 22 12:40:30 PST 2010
Firmware: 80
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Seems like a good number of us had their EML tube die between 500-1000 hours...does anybody have an EML tube that they have used in their TP with over 1000 hours?
While George and Dan have been super supportive and great as usual, I am still very concerned with this short tube life for such an expensive tube.
George
What does everyone do in regards to turning off the tubes when not listening?
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My tubes are always off unless I am listening. No point in wasting tube life and running up electricity costs.
George
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What does everyone do in regards to turning off the tubes when not listening?
definitely off when not listening... though sometimes I let them warm up for 2 or 3 minutes before sending a signal through.
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definitely off when not listening... though sometimes I let them warm up for 2 or 3 minutes before sending a signal through.
+1
I also do this with my tube mono blocks.
George
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My tubes are always turned-off when not listening! These babies are just too expensive to allow then to run when not in use.
Ken
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Ditto. My tubes are always off unless I'm listening. Sometimes I listen through the digital outs through an external dac if I'm just piping music through the house.
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Mine also always off when not in use.
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Tubes go on when I sit down to listen. Usually I'll play a Teaching Company Great Courses CD for 45 minutes while they're warming up. Currently working through the Beethoven Piano sonata course (Professor Robert Greenberg). After going through the course, then I'll fire up the music I just learned about and listen to a couple different interpretations.
After that, it will be a mix of LP's and the Transporter depending on how my day has been. Usually my tubes get about 6-8 hours of play each day.
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Seems like a good number of us had their EML tube die between 500-1000 hours...does anybody have an EML tube that they have used in their TP with over 1000 hours?
While George and Dan have been super supportive and great as usual, I am still very concerned with this short tube life for such an expensive tube.
George
Just had another EML die a premature death.
I am done.
George
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Just had another EML die a premature death.
I am done.
George
Man, that stinks :( Hopefully it's still under warranty?
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Man, that stinks :( Hopefully it's still under warranty?
Nope.
George
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So now what?
Has anyone tried a good old metal base GZ34 with the Black Treasures? Seems it's been all BT with the EML.
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So now what?
Has anyone tried a good old metal base GZ34 with the Black Treasures? Seems it's been all BT with the EML.
I have the super expensive metal base, but I actually prefer this over it in my system:
http://www.tubemonger.com/1970s_Bel_NOS_NIB_GZ34_5AR4_Philips_Mullard_OEM_p/3.htm
I won't say it is as good as the EML, but it gets close.
George
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George, I'm very sorry to hear about your second EML failure. I have been enjoying my HW CV-378, though it is a bit softer on the bottom end and not quite as open up top as the EML, it is more forgiving on those not-so-great recordings.
A few weeks back when I read through the warranty for the EML it sounded like it was guaranteed as long as you didn't actually use it. Okay, that might be a bit of an exaggeration. Has anybody actually been able to get one replaced under warranty?
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Neither of the my dead EML tubes were covered under warranty because I was the second owner. I bought my first EML tube lightly used from Rydenfan and my second one (even more lightly used) from ted_b. In both cases, I know the tube was well cared for and maintained.
This part is purely conjecture on my part, but both tubes were purchased relatively close to each other at the start of 2009, maybe there was something about the tubes produced around that time that causes them to have such a short life???
If you have an EML tube that died prematurely, can you either post or PM me your purchase date?
Thanks,
George
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I was one of the early users of the EML Mesh and purchased my tube in December, 2008.
Ken
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Ken,
Your EML is the tall one, about hour many hours it had on it.
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Ken,
Your EML is the tall one, about hour many hours it had on it.
I am totally guessing as I primarily listen on the weekends due to my travel schedule. Probably 500 plus or minus. I really do not know but the unit is seldom played during the week.
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I have the super expensive metal base, but I actually prefer this over it in my system:
http://www.tubemonger.com/1970s_Bel_NOS_NIB_GZ34_5AR4_Philips_Mullard_OEM_p/3.htm
I won't say it is as good as the EML, but it gets close.
George
George,
In preparation for the possibility of my EML failing soon, I picked up one of these Bel GZ34's... Visually the size difference is shocking! Its making me embarrassed :oops: :lol:
What is your take on its characteristics???
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I just ordered the BEL tube as well for the same reason. My EML has about 130 hours on it so far.
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I bought my first EML tube lightly used from Rydenfan and my second one (even more lightly used) from ted_b.
We don't seem to hear much from Ted or David around here anymore.
Wonder what alternatives they might have discovered that would keep them away and find them selling their penultimate rectifiers...
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We don't seem to hear much from Ted or David around here anymore.
Wonder what alternatives they might have discovered that would keep them away and find them selling their penultimate rectifiers...
I'm still very active on AC, just not on this thread anymore due to my selling my MW TP. I loved it, but for both sonic and non-sonic reasons moved onto a Mac-based computer audio setup (for another thread and another discussion). My MW loyalties are still very strong though; his black anodized KWA 150 monoblocks are at my place now and I'm likely not gonna let him have them back. :)
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Hopefully Dan will come out with a top notch DAC soon (once the technology settles down a bit) and we can talk about rolling tubes in that!
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Just sent my MWTP across the country for some service. I forgot the exact post but someone in here mentioned that they talked to Dan who said he could lower the voltage/power going to the rectifier. With all this early EML failure talk , I figured it could only help me.
FWIW bought my EML 2/16/09. Guessin it has 1200+ hrs on it.
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My EML failed today. I ordered the end of January, 2009, but I seem to recall there was a delay in shipping. When the news came out of need to have the Transporter upgrade to avoid issues, I sent my unit to Dan for the upgrade. I would guess I had approximately 750-1000 hours on it. While I did enjoy this tube, I am unwilling to invest in another one--beautiful in sound and appearance, but too short a life span.
Will
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I've been nervous about taking mine out of the box after reading about all these early failures :oops:.
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My EML failed today. I ordered the end of January, 2009, but I seem to recall there was a delay in shipping. When the news came out of need to have the Transporter upgrade to avoid issues, I sent my unit to Dan for the upgrade. I would guess I had approximately 750-1000 hours on it. While I did enjoy this tube, I am unwilling to invest in another one--beautiful in sound and appearance, but too short a life span.
Will
Sorry to hear about this Will.
Unfortunately, it appears to be more common than any of us would like.
George
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George,
I appreciate the lead info and link on the Bel tube. Unfortunately they show out of stock. The Ruby is back in service for now. The 6FQ7 RCA Cleartops now seem to be a better match with the Ruby than my Raytheon 6SN7GT's.
Will
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I'm sorry to say my EML 5U4G failed in my transporter today. After two blown fuses this morning I swapped the NOS Sylvania 5U4GB that came with it and everything worked fine. I bought the tube in March 2010 and it had about 175 hours on it.
It's being replaced under warranty.
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Has anyone tried the Sophia 6SN7 tube? If so, what was your opinion?
Thanks.
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Ok I am a tube newbie..but just got my black treasures and really like what they added. I had my heart set on the EML and was going to pull the plug..then the issues surfaced. I sent an email to tube audio store...here is their response...should I consider the EML the 5ar4?
Thank you for your inquiry, Barry.
EML has shipped the tubes, and we are awaiting receipt.
However, to assure there are no warranty issues, I would need to know
what the following:
1. AC Input Voltage
2. DC Output Current
3. Filament Current
4. Filament Voltage
Per the Modwright Transporter Mod. page
(http://modwright.com/modifications/9), Modwright recommends a 5U4, 5V4,
or 5AR4 rectifier tube.
Unfortunately, the EML 5U4G is not a direct replacement for the 5U4 or
5AR4...
That may explain why some 5U4G tubes may dissipate faster than 5AR4's...
The EML spec sheet for their EML 5U4G is shown on the following page:
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML5U4G.htm
Emission Labs (EML) requires proper tube type application/utilization
for EML to honor their warranty...
The EML guarantee is described at the following page:
http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/guarantee/conditions.htm
Please advise if you have or can obtain the information requested in
Item Nos 1-4 above.
I look forward to hearing from you.
BTW, I do have some NOS 5AR4 tubes available, too...
All the best,
Sal
RAM Labs
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Another one bites the dust. This is my second EML that suffered an early demise. I don't think this one made it to 500 hours. I received a pair of EML's in mid February after my 1st one lasted maybe 1000 hours. Not really sure. Visually this one seems to have a faint darkening of the entire tube with slightly darker zebra stripes running from the top to the bottom plate. I haven't called George yet. At least this one is under warranty. Prior to the two dead EML's I had a NOS Mullard GZ34 go prematurely. I'm wondering if it's the tubes or the Transporter. Anyone else have non EML's giving up the ghost too early? My TP has the latest mods.
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Another one bites the dust. This is my second EML that suffered an early demise. I don't think this one made it to 500 hours. I received a pair of EML's in mid February after my 1st one lasted maybe 1000 hours. Not really sure. Visually this one seems to have a faint darkening of the entire tube with slightly darker zebra stripes running from the top to the bottom plate. I haven't called George yet. At least this one is under warranty. Prior to the two dead EML's I had a NOS Mullard GZ34 go prematurely. I'm wondering if it's the tubes or the Transporter. Anyone else have non EML's giving up the ghost too early? My TP has the latest mods.
I never experienced a failure of the EML Mesh Tube in my ModWright Transporter but it was the reason I sold my unit. Everytime I turned the Transporter on I was holding my breath hoping it would not blow. The EML is the best rectifier I experienced in my unit and after hearing it I could not imagine the Transporter without it. Thus, my unit is now in the possession of another happy owner.
Ken
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Visually this one seems to have a faint darkening of the entire tube with slightly darker zebra stripes running from the top to the bottom plate.
My EML had the same visual characteristics as you describe before it went. I had used the Ruby that came with the Transporter prior to the EML. When the EML failed, I reinstalled the Ruby. I purchased a Mullard GZ32/CV593 from Upscale Audio this month. The pricing was reasonable at $60 + Packing/Shipping. Vocals, stage width, and imaging are superior to the Ruby. The vocals seem more forward than the EML, but I am good with that--my speakers are dynamic dipoles which present very good depth. If I recall correctly, the top end may have been a bit more extended with the EML. I am curious about other rectifiers like the High Wycombe, but I, too, am uneasy about the cause of the EML failures and whether other expensive rectifiers may also be prone to prematurely fail in the Transporter as well.
Regards,
Will
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Recently just got my MWTP back from Dan. Had him lower the voltage to my EML for a reasonable cost. Like most of you on here I purchased my MWTP previous to us discovering the King of rectifier options (EML).
In all fairness to Dan and George this tube although compatible was proabably being pushed too hard with the original volatge of the MWTP. I'm coming up on 1300 hrs, not sure what is considered average life for a rectifier but that (knock on my solid wood Ulysses) is what I hope to be able to attain.
Since this an important ingredient , would be a wise idea to talk to Dan and see about lowering you rectifier voltage as well if needed. If you have a newer MWTP this might be a moot point. (fingers crossed).
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Berto,
Yes, I purchased the MWTP prior to the EML. I was still musing on whether I would pursue the Platinum Upgrade when I read the of the recommendations to do so if using the EML. I then had Dan do the upgrade as well as the Bybee option.
Was this recent lowering of the voltage you had done in addition to the changes made by the Platinum Upgrade (standard configuration now on MWTP)?
Regards,
Will
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Berto,
Yes, I purchased the MWTP prior to the EML. I was still musing on whether I would pursue the Platinum Upgrade when I read the of the recommendations to do so if using the EML. I then had Dan do the upgrade as well as the Bybee option.
Was this recent lowering of the voltage you had done in addition to the changes made by the Platinum Upgrade (standard configuration now on MWTP)
Regards,
Will
Hi will > I orig. bought my unit fully upgraded with the 9 pin configuration for the signal tubes in 2/09. So yes this was done in addition.
I would not of known about this possibility but somewhere in this extensive thread, I read from a fellow poster that Dan said he could lower the voltage to the rectifier. Could not fathom being w/o my MWTP but was forced to send it in anyways due to a lose molex connector (where the EML plugs into).
Not sure if all the newer units have lower voltages to the rectifier, I just know that mine could be lowered. Time will tell if this helps.
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Thanks Berto,
You already have passed what I was able to obtain with the EML. Good luck going forward with your EML and hopefully you will have thousands of hours of enjoyment with this tube.
Regards,
Will
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Thanks Berto,
You already have passed what I was able to obtain with the EML. Good luck going forward with your EML and hopefully you will have thousands of hours of enjoyment with this tube.
Regards,
Will
Thx Will. after just reading a few more recent comments, I will ad that I just looked at my EML and it does have those Zebra stripes dtz and you had mentioned. So in reality I might be in for a rude awakening. :roll:
Keep ya posted.
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After reading here and checking my voltage I was ready to pull the trigger on the EML...but read the specs and it appears it is 3" taller than the stock tube...am I right? I don't have much room above mt TP with stock tube. Can anybody verify that?
Thanks for your input.
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After reading here and checking my voltage I was ready to pull the trigger on the EML...but read the specs and it appears it is 3" taller than the stock tube...am I right? I don't have much room above mt TP with stock tube. Can anybody verify that?
Thanks for your input.
You can see pictures of the ModWright Transporter with the EML installed on pages 29 and on page 33 of this thread. I believe the distance from the shelf to the top of the EML is approximately 9".
Good Luck, the EML is a fantastic sounding rectifier tube.
Ken
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You can see pictures of the ModWright Transporter with the EML installed on pages 29 and on page 33 of this thread. I believe the distance from the shelf to the top of the EML is approximately 9".
Good Luck, the EML is a fantastic sounding rectifier tube.
Ken
That's the old EML that most of have. The new EML (and you can check with George at TubesUSA) is in a more compact envelope. I just spoke with George and he explained they redesigned it to be more in line (sizewise) with its NOS counterparts.
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For those searching for alternatives to the EML 5U4G, I just posted this ad:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81729.msg784901;topicseen#new
Dan, if you feel this post is inappropriate here, please delete it.
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It's a long time since I've been on line and I was after some advice. I have a Transporter with the Platinum and Hyperdrive upgrades and an EML rectifier tube.. but am still using the stock 6N1P driver tubes. What is the latest preferences on driver tubes at reasonable cost and where are the best places to source these? I am based in the UK. All steers gratefully received. Best wishes.
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No problem Rob.
Dan
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It's a long time since I've been on line and I was after some advice. I have a Transporter with the Platinum and Hyperdrive upgrades and an EML rectifier tube.. but am still using the stock 6N1P driver tubes. What is the latest preferences on driver tubes at reasonable cost and where are the best places to source these? I am based in the UK. All steers gratefully received. Best wishes.
Current favored tubes are Shuguang CV-181-Z Black Treasures (http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z) using an octal adapter (like the one from Bolder Cable) with the older TP like yours. No adapter is necessary with the newer version with octal sockets. These tubes seem to have ousted the former reigning NOS King, the Tung-Sol Round-Plates from the 40's-50's. The octal tube options seem to add some weight and fullness to the sound in my own experience. I haven't found a 9-pin that can compete, but favored options have been 6CG7 cleartops and 6H30-DR supertubes.
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Thank you. Very much appreciated. M.
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Man those Black Treasures are expensive. Anyone know what their life expectancy is when used in the Transporter?
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Operating point is conservative for 6SN7. I can't speak to the life of this particular tube otherwise.
Thanks,
Dan
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Current favored tubes are Shuguang CV-181-Z Black Treasures (http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/Shuguang+Treasure+CV181-Z) using an octal adapter (like the one from Bolder Cable) with the older TP like yours. No adapter is necessary with the newer version with octal sockets. These tubes seem to have ousted the former reigning NOS King, the Tung-Sol Round-Plates from the 40's-50's. The octal tube options seem to add some weight and fullness to the sound in my own experience. I haven't found a 9-pin that can compete, but favored options have been 6CG7 cleartops and 6H30-DR supertubes.
I have gone back to the TP's and prefer them (by a small margin) over the Black Treasures when coupled with NOS BEL GZ34 rectifier.
I just had a friend over and he also preferred this combo to the EML/BT in my system.
George
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I've also decided that I like my tung sol 6sn7s over the Black Treasures...my current favs are the 50s vintage 6sn7w.
M
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A little over a week ago I was unhappy to hear my system sounding harsh and grainy. I figured the 6H30 tubes in my 36.5 were going bad. As it turns out they are fine but the Black Treasures in the TP back slid substantially and were sounding like they were breaking in all over again.
These BTs have over 600 hours on them and I never suspected they would ever sound so sour again. But they did and for over 7 days +- they sounded like crap. All seems better now but who would have thought these tubes could still be wandering around sound wise? Weird...
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Man those Black Treasures are expensive. Anyone know what their life expectancy is when used in the Transporter?
Hey Mike,
here is a quote from the guy @ EML and a thought from me from earlier...
-------------------------------------
This quote from iGrant got me wondering.
"We don't know how long they will last in service, certain materials that made NOS last so long just aren't allowed to be used anymore, but we have zero reports of failures on them since we got our AT-1000 and could sort out the grading and reject the 'too far from spec' ones. We expect more than 5,000 hours, time will tell."
It seems to be the consensus so far that the Black Treasures sound better than the Round Plates but how much better? I know the 'how much better' outlook is subjective but if the TungSol's are very very good to begin with and last possibly twice as long (10,000 hrs) at the same price, then one could look at it as the Black Treasures costing twice as much if you must purchase them more often.
--------------------------------------
Im still on my first EML and TS round plates and did not try the black treasures yet. I am seeing the striping on the EML now though. Took it out to try the Bel GZ34; I will miss the EML but the GZ34 was really good too. A little 'splashy' in the highs but more definition in the bass IME. Guessing the highs will tighten up over time.
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Hey Mike,
here is a quote from the guy @ EML and a thought from me from earlier...
-------------------------------------
This quote from iGrant got me wondering.
"We don't know how long they will last in service, certain materials that made NOS last so long just aren't allowed to be used anymore, but we have zero reports of failures on them since we got our AT-1000 and could sort out the grading and reject the 'too far from spec' ones. We expect more than 5,000 hours, time will tell."
It seems to be the consensus so far that the Black Treasures sound better than the Round Plates but how much better? I know the 'how much better' outlook is subjective but if the TungSol's are very very good to begin with and last possibly twice as long (10,000 hrs) at the same price, then one could look at it as the Black Treasures costing twice as much if you must purchase them more often.
--------------------------------------
Im still on my first EML and TS round plates and did not try the black treasures yet. I am seeing the striping on the EML now though. Took it out to try the Bel GZ34; I will miss the EML but the GZ34 was really good too. A little 'splashy' in the highs but more definition in the bass IME. Guessing the highs will tighten up over time.
I think you might be confusing "guy @ EML" (who is George / Valvesaglowin), with Ian Grant, of Grant Fidelity importer of the Black Treasures (I don't think they sell EML). It seems like the quote you mentioned is about the Black Treasures, and not the EML.
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A little over a week ago I was unhappy to hear my system sounding harsh and grainy. I figured the 6H30 tubes in my 36.5 were going bad. As it turns out they are fine but the Black Treasures in the TP back slid substantially and were sounding like they were breaking in all over again.
These BTs have over 600 hours on them and I never suspected they would ever sound so sour again. But they did and for over 7 days +- they sounded like crap. All seems better now but who would have thought these tubes could still be wandering around sound wise? Weird...
Oh'fer'chrissake, will you guys make up your minds!!! :rotflmao:
I heard the rains were just a cover-up for the story they're trying to hide in Guatemala! Some dude's Black Treasures started to get unstable, until they finally reached critical mass as they passed hour 827. He ain't around to comment here anymore, but the pictues tell it all! (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Flooding-opens-up-sinkholes-Guatemala-City/ss/events/wl/053110guatemalahole#photoViewer=/100601/ids_photos_india_wl/ra572889842.jpg). I just went back to the stock RCA 5U4G's and 6N1P Sovteks that Dan sent along with the TP - They ain't no Black Treasure/EML magic bullet, but at least I'm here to write about it.
Just kidding, of course. I've had no wild fluctuations of performance since early on. No idea how many hours on mine, but they still sound great. I'll swap out my TSR's at some point in the near future and report who gets the crown. If there's a report of some crater in Seattle caused by floods...well, then I probably had about 826 hours on mine and didn't know it.
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I think you might be confusing "guy @ EML" (who is George / Valvesaglowin), with Ian Grant, of Grant Fidelity importer of the Black Treasures (I don't think they sell EML). It seems like the quote you mentioned is about the Black Treasures, and not the EML.
Oh, yes, I did mean IGrant regarding the Black Treasures... And then I was just making a comment about my EML 5U4G rectifier. Sorry for confusion.
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Finally received the octal adapters from Bolder and the Black Treasures from PM Components here in the UK... and the BTs are a clear step up from the 6N1P I was using before... used with the EML rectifier tube. So many thanks for the advice! Best wishes, Michael.
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Finally received the octal adapters from Bolder and the Black Treasures from PM Components here in the UK... and the BTs are a clear step up from the 6N1P I was using before... used with the EML rectifier tube. So many thanks for the advice! Best wishes, Michael.
Glad to hear it, and not surprising! The adapters will open up a whole new world of opportunities to roll other options in there. Lots of great potential to be tapped. The BT's still work great for me too. Enjoy!
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Glad to hear it, and not surprising! The adapters will open up a whole new world of opportunities to roll other options in there. Lots of great potential to be tapped. The BT's still work great for me too. Enjoy!
And I doubt anyone can do better then that combo, I've tried :duh:
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I finally have speakers that are allowing me to truly hear my system!!!
And that leads me to a question...
What would damping the rectifier tube accomplish? I ask because I believe I am getting what I understand to be, just a bit of over sibilance... Would damping the EML control this? Or is that something that only comes from the signal tubes? Which in my case are the TungSol round plates.
~J
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I finally have speakers that are allowing me to truly hear my system!!!
And that leads me to a question...
What would damping the rectifier tube accomplish? I ask because I believe I am getting what I understand to be, just a bit of over sibilance... Would damping the EML control this? Or is that something that only comes from the signal tubes? Which in my case are the TungSol round plates.
~J
Are these brand new speakers? If so, perhaps you should give the drivers time (300 hrs or so) to break in before making any changes. Which speakers did you get?
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They are not brand new but the crossovers are... I purchased Frank's Ulysses' and had the all polly crossover option put in.
Your suggestion is the right thing to do.
I am only on hour 50 or so for the crossovers. The HF board has a Teflon MW cap that needs 400 hrs or so to be completely broken in.
But what does damping the rectifier tube achieve?
Not that I want to put money into a tweek for a tube that will most likely die an early death... I may just buy one more if it goes soon, as I would like to live with an EML with these speakers for a while.
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Congrats on getting your Ulysses with the all poly crossover!
Because the crossover needs about 400 hours to break in, why not use another rectifier tube during that break-in time to spare putting all those hours on the EML tube. After that, reinsert the EML tube and find out if the sibilance is gone.
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^ Thanks so much Frank! (the other Frank)
I was planing on emailing you to talk about the good news :D
Im doing all non-listening break-in through a tuner, leaving the MWTP off during these times...
I was wondering about dampening because listening through the MW Oppo BDP 83 the sound is deep and even across all frequencies. Through the MWTP there is a slight sibilance exaggeration . Not across all HF's though, so my first thought was the EML.... My MWTP is not hard wired yet (waiting to move a new computer to different location), so maybe it is the slight thinness from the Transporters wifi I am finally hearing...
We'll see... Ill give the speakers some time.
I am probably just hearing (finally!) all the subtle nuances of my system that I will want to begin to tweak... None the less, I am pretty pumped with these speakers.
EDIT: Thanks for the PM's and the great suggestions!
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I two am a proud and VERY happy owner of a pair of Daedalus Ulysses. I am expecting to have my crossovers updated too, at Lou's convenience. I love the Ulysses' so much as it is that I really can't wait to hear how much better this will make them.
Hat's off to Lou for taking such a fine product to the next level!
Damping the rectifier tube may help. You can also try different driver tubes to warm up the sound.
I am pleased that you are enjoying the MW Oppo!
Sincerely,
Dan W.
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Thank you Dan,
I am really enjoying my system (Lou's speakers and your sources) for the first time in well over a year... you will be very happy with the AP option.
Per the discussion, I have realized it is time to invest in a good power cord for the TP. and new conditioning...
~J
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I still have my EML rectifier in a box after hearing of all the early failures of it. Are there any recent stories about it? I guess I should just give it a whirl and see how it does.
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I still have my EML rectifier in a box after hearing of all the early failures of it. Are there any recent stories about it? I guess I should just give it a whirl and see how it does.
I've had my EML in the MWTP for over a year and it's still going strong. However, the EML 5U4G is more sensitive than other 5U4G's and has additional power supply design criteria. I would check with Dan before trying it again, just to be safe.
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I still have my EML rectifier in a box after hearing of all the early failures of it. Are there any recent stories about it? I guess I should just give it a whirl and see how it does.
Or you could sell it to me. :D
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I wanted to return and mention that I bought my EML used, but it has still been going strong for a year now, with lots of weekly hours.
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Quick general tube questions. If I am looking for a 6SN7 tube, can I use a 6SN7GT? What do the letters after the 7 mean? If there is a nice tube FAQ link someone could send me I'd appreciate it.
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6SN7GT is fine.
6SN7 Info here...
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/209782/the-6sn7-identification-guide (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/209782/the-6sn7-identification-guide)
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Here are some good ones:
http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/6sn7_vt.htm
http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm
Ten 6SN7 Recommendations Having auditioned most 6SN7s (and there are a lot of them), I've decided to draft a list of ten "must audition" tubes. I chose these selections based on not only absolute performance, but also for sonic diversity. I am confident you will find a 6SN7 that suits your needs and/or preferences from the tubes listed below. Disclaimer: This is not a top ten list. There are many other excellent performers that missed the cut for various reasons. You may very well prefer a 6SN7 that is not on this list. And of course, this is all just my personal opinion. My goal is to provide a list of 6SN7 recommendations that provide excellent sonics but sound significantly different. Tubes are listed in alphabetical order (not by ranking). Brimar 6SN7GT/6SN7GTY: Lush. This is arguably the warmest, most "round" sounding 6SN7 produced. While in some systems, it may sound slow and bloated, in other systems, it sounds lush and wonderfully bloomy. Ken Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231: Bass champs. The treble may not be the most refined, but both the clear and black glass versions provide world-class bass performance married with a sweet and seductive midrange. Hytron 6SN7GT: Neutral and fast. Need speed and clarity? Hytrons are very hard to top. This is definitely my personal tube of choice for detail and neutrality. I liken Hytrons to crystal clear streams. National Union gray glass 6SN7GT: Liquid and mellow. This tube is perfect to tame harsh systems or if you are looking for more open ambience from your 6SN7. NU GG is like floating on cloud nine. Raytheon 6SN7GT/VT-231 type II flat plates: Sweet PRAT. This tube is much like the Hytron 6SN7GT, but with a sweeter tone. Not quite as detailed or neutral as the Hytron, but arguably more seductive. RCA gray glass 6SN7GT/VT-231: Romanticism and warmth. The RCA gray glass possesses a full midbass and gorgeous harmonic richness, but yet delicate and detailed. When I crave the quintessential tube sound, the RCA gray glass is the first tube I plug in. Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231: Heavenly from the belt up. I call this tube the anti-thesis of the Ken Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231. While somewhat lacking in bass impact, the Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231 arguably produces the most beautiful midrange and top end in this family of tubes. Its midrange is clear and open, and the treble is smooth as butter yet unrivaled in its detail and spatial separation. Zero listener fatigue is guaranteed. Sylvania "Bad Boys" 6SN7GT (1951-1953): World class everything. Imagine the Sylvania VT-231. Now imagine it with bass in spades! What you have is Sylvania 6SN7GT from this era, often reverently referred to as "Bad Boys." This tube is often mentioned in "best 6SN7" discussions. Sylvania 6SN7W: Dynamics and slam. I can think of no other 6SN7 with more visceral energy then the Sylvania 6SN7W. From earth-shattering bass to the sparkling treble, all three versions of the 6SN7Ws provide a full throttle musical experience. The Sylvania 6SN7W certainly earns its place as a legendary 6SN7. Tung Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 round plates: Absolute silk. This tube needs no introduction. The Tung Sol round plates are arguably the most sought after 6SN7 for its "organic rightness." -Len
This is 'Len's' evaluation of this family of tubes.................not my own.
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I just shipped my Transporter back to Dan to do the following: "check the voltage at the rectifier filament, check the capacitor size after the rectifier and be sure that we install resistors in the B+ leads to the anode of the rectifier." I want to make sure that the EML lives a long life.
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As I am acquiring more and more equipment that utilizes tubes and I am buying more and more tubes I think I should get a tube tester. I know many of you already own one. Can someone recommend which testers I should consider getting and what's the best strategy to get one that actually works and is calibrated?
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Check out www.alltubetesters.com. You'll find recommendations on testers and Roger offers calibration services if you get your tester to him. No affiliation or connection here. He has calibrated twice for me and I have been very satisfied though it can take some time to turn around. He recommends periodic recalibration so any tester that you buy may or may not need to be calibrated again even though it's sold as "calibrated". You see a lot of testers for sale on the auction site. I bought mine on an audio website where you see them every so often.
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Has anybody tried tube type 83 mercury vapor rectifier?
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Here's another question along these lines. Is there a place to send tubes to be tested. I bought a GZ34 Amperex metalbase about 2 months ago for my TP and it seems to have lost a little something. I don't know if the newness wore off in my head or the tube is lossing it. I am a total tube newbie.
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I don't know of a commercial place but if you send it to me I will be happy to test it for you. I just got a b&k 550 completely refurbished and calibrated
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Thanks for the offer diminches...I received another pm and am in good hands.
I love this forum and everybody's willingness to help.
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Am I correct in saying that the new Platinum Truth transporters take 6SN7 tubes without an adapter? Was this a change from the original MWTP?
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Am I correct in saying that the new Platinum Truth transporters take 6SN7 tubes without an adapter? Was this a change from the original MWTP?
Yes and Yes.
George
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That's what I thought but I got all confused reading the specs on Dan's web site.
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For anyone paying attention, I sent my TP back to Dan to check out the voltage going to the rectifier so I could feel safe using the EML. According to Dan the "filament voltage to rectifier was adjusted down to ~ 4.75VAC."
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Hello Dan and AudioCircle,
I am trying to get back into the game after a long hiatus.
I sold my ModWright Transporter on Audiogon back in 2008, after getting laid off. It gets worse, if that is possible. I also sold my Shunyata stuff as well as almost all of my Transparent Audio cables and my Classe CP 500 preamplifier and Classe CA-m400 amplifiers. All this happened a while back. Hey, it is what it is. I’m not crying about it. Things happen and we move on.
I still have my Martin Logan Odyssey speakers, a Roku and a good Marantz SR9000 receiver, thank goodness, and I am keeping all of it. Needless to say I am sort of starting over and rebuilding my audio system. First on my agenda is to get another ModWright Transporter. This is a goal I am working towards for the very “near” future. You have to have goals, at least I do.
It just so happens that while I was still employed I was also OBSESIVELY collecting tubes at break neck speeds, on the side, and some of you know I was trying to start a vintage audio equipment business called VTubeAudio. Then with the turn of events I dropped the ball for a couple of years. Well, I just created a Page on Facebook. I call my page VTubeAudio and hopefully it will eventually turn into more than just a Facebook page but for now it is a start to help me get back on my feet and maybe help some of you get some tubes to roll in your ModWright Transporters and other equipment as well. I just made it to 32 fans and most of them were friends from Facebook already.
You should be able to just go to http://www.facebook.com/VTubeAudio (http://www.facebook.com/VTubeAudio) and feel free to write on my wall and / or LIKE my page. I can use a few friends. I am now home all of the time and online most of the day. I hope it is okay to post this! Thanks in advance!
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Well, it's a sad day in audio land at the jriggy abode... My EML rectifier just died. It died a quiet peaceful death. Playing soft female vocals...and just stopped. No pop, no ping and not noise at all. It just went out...
Funny thing is, I was staring at it just 10 min or less before its last note, wondering if it looked extra bright. Guess I know the answer now.
I bought it used from an AC member a little over one year ago. I am confident that the seller had only had it long enough to have maybe 300 hours on it. It has played a TON over the last year, but we all know that is not long enough.
I have a question... For the past two months or so, I have been using a Kaplan HE power cable. I then sent it off to Paul to be changed to Copper as well as being one of the first MK II versions. I JUST got the PC back, ran it on the TP (with tubes off) over night to get a few hours on it. This morning I turned on the tubes for listening and the EML dies within a half hour... Could it be possible that this 'new' power cable cooked the EML to its death within that half hour??? Tell me this is not possible?
Jason
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Jason, the power cord change is purely coincidental. The older rectifier tubes are more robust than the EML, whereas the EML is more sensitive with a shorter lifespan? On the plus side I believe non of the older rectifier tubes come close to the all round performance of the EML, the shorter life is apparently the price we pay..... :cry:
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Jason, did you have Dan lower the voltage being fed to the EML? He did that on my MWTP since it was felt that the extra voltage was causing early failures of the EMLs.
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Hey Guys,
Glad to hear the new power cord is strictly coincidental... Strangely enough though -- ya know that soft "Bhu-Hummmmm..." sound the tube stage makes when turned on? That seemed louder and [possibly] faster (?) when first turned on with the new power cord. Made me go "hmmm" at that moment actually. Then a half hour later it was dead... But if you say it is purely coincidental then I believe.
I did have Dan correct the voltage for the EML and got the hyper mod as well while he had it, Sept. or something of last year. So Im sure it was changed. From my understanding, the EML would have not lasted anywhere close to a year or so if the voltage was not 'fixed' for it, right? It was stated to be dangerous unless changed right?
So... Are you guys paying the premium for one EML a year? Or going another direction?
~J
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Hey Guys,
Glad to hear the new power cord is strictly coincidental... Strangely enough though -- ya know that soft "Bhu-Hummmmm..." sound the tube stage makes when turned on? That seemed louder and [possibly] faster (?) when first turned on with the new power cord. Made me go "hmmm" at that moment actually. Then a half hour later it was dead... But if you say it is purely coincidental then I believe.
I did have Dan correct the voltage for the EML and got the hyper mod as well while he had it, Sept. or something of last year. So Im sure it was changed. From my understanding, the EML would have not lasted anywhere close to a year or so if the voltage was not 'fixed' for it, right? It was stated to be dangerous unless changed right?
So... Are you guys paying the premium for one EML a year? Or going another direction?
~J
I would also agree the added PC was purely coincidental, however I would be very suspect bout the fact you bought a used EML and can't be 100% sure about the hours.
FWIW I got my EML almost 2 years ago, play 25hrs a wk min. and just had my units voltage lowered bout 6months ago. Now I just prob jinxed it :duh:
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Hey Rob,
Uh-oh! You may have! :o
I can not recall the AC member I purchased it from, but they were a MWTP owner, the EML was rather fresh on the scene of tubes for MWTP owners and he offered it up right from this thread. So I was, and still am inclined to take his word that the EML was just broken-in.
Most of this year my system got 30 to 50 hours of play a week. Some weeks much more. Sounds like many more hours a week than yours...
See Zybar's thread in this circle on pager 3 regarding the EML........
I do not wish an early EML death on you by any means brother, but let me know when and if it happens.
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Hey J,
My 25hr/p/wk estimate is prob more conservative then reality since like you got new speaks and new source and have had many 5-10hr listening sessions 5 days per wk about.
Considering the reports from here and most of my EML's life has been with a high voltage MWTP Im surprsied mine is still going strong at about the 3000hr mark.
I'm still not passing judgement on this tubes life expectancy till my next and 2nd brand new EML purchase , playing through the lower voltage MWTP for its entire life. That will be the true'er test :thumb:
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I was one of the first pioneers of the EML / Transporter match.... I'm now on my third EML tube. :duh:
My first tube died after about a year and was replaced under warranty by George and was considered a freak failure at that time.
My second tube was installed and about 6 months or so into its life, it was discovered that the EML's were a touch sensitive to high voltage.... amongst other things like capacitance and PS impedance? My EML was glowing like a Banshee and upon checking, it was receiving 5.4v. My Transporter was suitably modified to 5.04v along with the other mods to make it more EML friendly. Anyway, this tube then decided to croak after another 6 months or so, and it was considered that the initial high voltage for 6 months did the necessary damage to shorten it lifespan? Over-voltage results in faint vertical black carbon zebra lines discoloring the clear glass tube.
Still having Faith, I purchased my third EML and had the voltage reduced even further to 4.7v which is apparently optimum for the EML when used in the Transporter? The tube now glows significantly less brightly. Talking to other folks, its "apparently" not typical for the EML's to have such a short lifespan? I now fully believe that this new EML will have a very reasonable lifespan in its comfier, custom designed surroundings. :D
Its important to note that the voltage attained by Dan in his shop, may be different to in-home voltage due to variations and surges on the mains power.... plus some power filters may alter voltage?
Seems like a lot of effort to make just one tube type happy when no other make of tube seem to have any issues in the Transporter.... but IMHO, the EML sounds fantastic and makes magic that I've just not heard from any other tube combo.... to me, it was worth it. The Transporter is one sweet versatile little unit. :thumb:
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jriggy,
You may want to check with Dan on how low your unit was modified if you intend to pursue another EML. Note owenmd's post, that his Transporter has been lowered twice. I believe the current level is lower than earlier mod that included a reduction intended to address the potential EML issue. I had the first mod, including Bybee, but not the second. My EML had few hours before going in for the mod, but the tube died like so many have. While I really liked the EML in my system, I have elected not to do another.
Regards,
Will
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I've been using the MWTP with a pair of black treasures and an EML mesh. I am going to roll in a pair of Bad Boys to see how they sound. Has anyone used this combination, or, at a minimum, tried the Bad Boys? I have TS BGRPs in my LS-100 so I didn't want to "double up" on those and use them in the MWTP too.
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I have been dreaming of getting an EML tube for a while and finally got one today. All I can say if it sounds half as good as it looks..WOW.
It's a monster...I knew it was big....this thing is going to look cool sitting in my MWTP.
I sent my TP to Dan for a voltage check so hopefully it will last a couple of years.
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Hey guys,
Sorry for slow response here...
I guess I will try one more EML. I have some things that need to be evaluated and its been a lil difficult not having my tried and true EML in the mix. I call it our "Glory Tube" :lol:
I believe I got my MWTP 'adjusted' for usage with the EML back in Nov. of last year. So, depending on the time line, I think this was kind of early on in the voltage lowering days. I would venture to guess it was not lowerd as much as Owenmd's has been. Since you had it done twice and all... I wonder if Dan would know what it was lowered to back then anyway? I do not want to live with out it that long again... Well, I could, since I have a modded Oppo now too - But I think having the voltage lowered carries a bigger price tag now anyway.
Ill give one more EML a shot...
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Hey guys,
Sorry for slow response here...
I guess I will try one more EML. I have some things that need to be evaluated and its been a lil difficult not having my tried and true EML in the mix. I call it our "Glory Tube" :lol:
I believe I got my MWTP 'adjusted' for usage with the EML back in Nov. of last year. So, depending on the time line, I think this was kind of early on in the voltage lowering days. I would venture to guess it was not lowerd as much as Owenmd's has been. Since you had it done twice and all... I wonder if Dan would know what it was lowered to back then anyway? I do not want to live with out it that long again... Well, I could, since I have a modded Oppo now too - But I think having the voltage lowered carries a bigger price tag now anyway.
Ill give one more EML a shot...
I had it done 6 months ago about. Dan also gave me a brand new knob since mine was frozen, not my biz to quote you, but cost was very reasonable including roundtrip shipping. I did it when my Ulysses were on order so didnt miss it that much. Very cost effective for Glory that is :thumb:
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I have a question about swapping tubes in the MWTP. Do you have to power off the unit and unplug it every time you swap a tube? Or can you just flip the switch on the back that turns off the tube?
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I have a question about swapping tubes in the MWTP. Do you have to power off the unit and unplug it every time you swap a tube? Or can you just flip the switch on the back that turns off the tube?
Always a best practice to shut off your equipment when replacing tubes.
Also make sure the tubes have cooled down and/or that you wear some type of hand protection.
George
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Hey guys,
Sorry for slow response here...
I guess I will try one more EML. I have some things that need to be evaluated and its been a lil difficult not having my tried and true EML in the mix. I call it our "Glory Tube" :lol:
I believe I got my MWTP 'adjusted' for usage with the EML back in Nov. of last year. So, depending on the time line, I think this was kind of early on in the voltage lowering days. I would venture to guess it was not lowerd as much as Owenmd's has been. Since you had it done twice and all... I wonder if Dan would know what it was lowered to back then anyway? I do not want to live with out it that long again... Well, I could, since I have a modded Oppo now too - But I think having the voltage lowered carries a bigger price tag now anyway.
Ill give one more EML a shot...
Maybe I missed this somewhere back in the thread, but did you see the dark lines on the tube glass of your failed EML as others have described? Just curious.
No lines on mine yet....hopefully never.
EDIT: I just had a closer look - dark vertical lines on the tube glass of my EML. Tick tock, tick tock...
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Always a best practice to shut off your equipment when replacing tubes.
Also make sure the tubes have cooled down and/or that you wear some type of hand protection.
George
Thanks I figured so...what about unplugging it?
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Thanks I figured so...what about unplugging it?
That is probably the safest, although I just flip the tube switch since that controls the power to the tubes.
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I rolled pair of Bad Boys in my MWTP to replace the Black Treasures. I did not really like them. The low end sounded thinner and the mid range lost some of its detail. What impressions have others had with the Bad Boys?
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ALWAYS TURN OFF OUR PREAMPS WHEN CHANGING TUBES! I would also recommend unplugging to be absolutely safe, because if you hit the power button while changing tubes, it is EQUALLY dangerous.
WHEN CHANGING FUSES: ALWAYS UNPLUG FROM WALL!!!
Thanks guys!
Dan
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Hi,
Maybe I missed it, but I'm trying to find out where you get the 9 pin to octal tube adapters so I can run 6SN7 tubes in my Transporter?
Dan mentioned that someone on eBay in Hong Kong sells them fairly cheap, but I couldn't find it.
I'm aware that Boulder cable makes some, but I'm not willing to pay that much for them, plus they are pretty tall.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Todd R
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Hi,
Maybe I missed it, but I'm trying to find out where you get the 9 pin to octal tube adapters so I can run 6SN7 tubes in my Transporter?
Dan mentioned that someone on eBay in Hong Kong sells them fairly cheap, but I couldn't find it.
I'm aware that Boulder cable makes some, but I'm not willing to pay that much for them, plus they are pretty tall.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Todd R
http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-6SL7-6SN7-6CG7-tubes-SUB-/260708902839?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb37627b7 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-6SL7-6SN7-6CG7-tubes-SUB-/260708902839?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb37627b7)
Send this guy a PM as I think he is the guy I purchased my tube adapters from a couple of years ago.
Ken
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-6SL7-6SN7-6CG7-tubes-SUB-/260708902839?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb37627b7 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-6SL7-6SN7-6CG7-tubes-SUB-/260708902839?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb37627b7)
Send this guy a PM as I think he is the guy I purchased my tube adapters from a couple of years ago.
Ken
OK, thanks.
Dan was telling me there was a guy selling them for about $10. Any idea who that one was?
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I recall it being cheaper but never $10 bux. Guess he rasied his prices. I had a guy in FL make me some for about $75 I think but there tall.
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What are the top choices for the rectifier tube beside EML 5U4G and Sophia/Full Music 274B? I should receive my modded Transporter on Monday. I have 5U4G tubes from RCA, GE, and Sylvania, as well as Mullard GZ34/5AR4 already.
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I have tried and Mullard GZ34 and the GE and the RCA fat base. All have sounded nice. The EML has remained in the player the longest.
I have found the 6SN7s to have a bigger effect on the sound. I am currently using Sylvania 6sN7W metal bases. I also tried a pair of Ken Rads. My favorite so far are the Shuguang Black Treasures.
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Do the Black Treasures seem like they have a long break in time?
I had one once, in a deHavilland pre-amp. It was nice, warm & rich, but lacking some clarity & detail but I may not have got them fully broke in before the pre-amp got sold.
I have got a set on order for my Transporter. I'm curious.
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I did not find their break in period unusually long. I find that NOS or new production take 30-50 hours to settle in.
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Do the Black Treasures seem like they have a long break in time?
I had one once, in a deHavilland pre-amp. It was nice, warm & rich, but lacking some clarity & detail but I may not have got them fully broke in before the pre-amp got sold.
I have got a set on order for my Transporter. I'm curious.
Unlike David, I found the BT's needed more time to stabilize than most tubes. They went through some performance gymnastics in the first 200 hours or so, as I recall. I would give them at least that long before making any judgments on them. I might even stretch that to 300 hours if you still have doubts at that point because they are very good in that application. I also found them to be among my favorites in the MWTP. There were times in that break-in period where I would have rejected them outright. Once they got through that early period of break-in they seemed to stabilize nicely.
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Wow, 200-300 hours. I don't think I would have had that amount of patience.
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Wow, 200-300 hours. I don't think I would have had that amount of patience.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the MWTP circuit runs in Class A. Leave it on 24/7 for 8-12 days and you're there. I'd throw in a cheap rectifier during that time so you don't put the same time on an EML or some other precious glass.
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My experience with breaking in the Treasures was similar to Marco's. I also installed an inexpensive rectifier and left the tubes on to pass some of the idle break in time without the EML clocking the hours.
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I have been rolling different tubes in my MWTP for the past couple of months. What I am finding is that any of the 6SN7s that have a reputation for being "detailed" are not a good fit. I find the sound too edgy and "digital". My most recent experience with this are the Sylvania metal base 6SN7Ws. These are supposed to be great tubes but I do not like them in the MWTP.
I think I am going to end up going back to the Black Treasures.
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I have a set of Black Treasure with about 600 or less hours on it for sale. A nice looking pair. =SOLD=
Grade A, their highest grade. Dark tint.
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What rectifier tube are you using with the Sylvania 6SN7W? Maybe you can try some harmonic rich tubes for the rectifier and then let us know what you think?
Some people call it synergy between tubes. To me, I like to use complimentary tubes.
I have been rolling different tubes in my MWTP for the past couple of months. What I am finding is that any of the 6SN7s that have a reputation for being "detailed" are not a good fit. I find the sound too edgy and "digital". My most recent experience with this are the Sylvania metal base 6SN7Ws. These are supposed to be great tubes but I do not like them in the MWTP.
I think I am going to end up going back to the Black Treasures.
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Right now I am using an EML Mesh. What would you recommend with the Sylvania 6SN7W?
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Right now I am using an EML Mesh. What would you recommend with the Sylvania 6SN7W?
I know that the BEL GZ34 sounds very good with the Sylvania 6SN7W, Tong-Sol RP's, and the Treasures. In my system, I like it basically as much as the EML at a fraction of the price and with zero reliability issues.
Unfortunately, the place I bought mine from is out of stock right now (http://www.tubemonger.com/1970s_Bel_NOS_NIB_GZ34_5AR4_Philips_Mullard_OEM_p/3.htm), but you could always ping him and see when he will have more.
Good luck.
George
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Can CV378 be used as the rectifier tube in MWTP?
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"Can CV378 be used as the rectifier tube in MWTP?"
Yes. Quite a few members have used this rectifier with perhaps the best being the 'High Wycome' version.
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I've been liking my old Sylvania Jan5u4G...also old tung sol's
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Unlike David, I found the BT's needed more time to stabilize than most tubes. They went through some performance gymnastics in the first 200 hours or so, as I recall. I would give them at least that long before making any judgments on them. I might even stretch that to 300 hours if you still have doubts at that point because they are very good in that application. I also found them to be among my favorites in the MWTP. There were times in that break-in period where I would have rejected them outright. Once they got through that early period of break-in they seemed to stabilize nicely.
Marco,
How were the dynamics affected during break in?
Got my BT Tubes this week and they are smooth and sweet sounding and do bring out the occasional detail I hadn't heard before, but they sound "soft" lacking punch.
An example is Dean Peer's album Airborne (http://www.deanpeer.com/music.htm) (24/96). With the stock 6N1P tubes, the percussion on the first track really pops.
In fact it makes me jump every time, even though I know it's coming :D
With the BT tubes, there is none of that. No jump, no pop. It's like they are playing with padded mallets.
I sure hope this improves.
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One of my preamps is 6922 based, a BAT VK-3iX, while the other is 6SN7 based, the Dude from TRL. The BAT preamp does sound more impactful with the 6922 tubes. However, the 6SN7 based Dude preamp has richer and more natural harmonics to my ears. Maybe the 6N1P is closer to 6992 family.
On the Transporter, my favorite combination is now Mullard GZ32 with RCA 5692 Redbase.
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I hear you about the RCA Red Base 5692s. They are also my favorite in my MWTP (paired with a Tung Sol 5U4G).
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Can one use an ECC32 in the MWTP? Has anyone tried this and have any feedback?
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I'm letting go of my Mullard GZ34 / 5AR4 Fatbase 1959 vacuum tube rectifier. Tubeworld says it is the best for audio, and has it listed used for over $300.00. I could only wish.
Ha, it is currently at $34.00 on ebay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/330601511017?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330601511017?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649)
I have the original box as well. I really don't need it because I have a few of the metal base versions to play with.
Auction ends tomorrow though. Thanks in advance for bidding on it, I know someone will enjoy it.
Rodney
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Here is my latest tube rolling experience with the Transporter: Type 83 for rectification and 6H8C for output. These tubes are relatively cheap compared with other well known types.
What I found out was that at least for the type 83 tubes, that the sound is different with a different combined plate current value on the output tubes. And I can hear a difference of sound with a change of .01mA of the combined plate currents of the output tubes. Example of tube configurations:
(out1 p1) (out1 p2)
x.xxmA 7.00mA (combined = 14.68mA)
(Type 83 tube1)
(out2 p1) (out2 p2)
7.68mA x.xxmA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(out1 p1) (out1 p2)
x.xxmA 7.35mA (combined = 14.69mA)
(Type 83 tube1)
(out2 p1) (out2 p2)
7.34mA x.xxmA
x.xxmA are plates not being used by the Transporter. If you switch the output tube's positions then those plates will be used instead. In almost all cases, the combined values will be different between the two sets. I don't know if the plate currents of all the plates are the same in the grade-A Black Treasure tube pair, or they are just very close between them.
A higher combined plate current value will have a more compressed sound. A lot lower value will produce a some what a flabby sound. One need to find a value that produces the sound you like, such that you will hear the sound of the string vibration of an instrument rather than more of a woody sound of the strike on the string.
I found GE, RCA, Sylvania brands of type 83 sounded similar, but they each take on a different ranges of combined plate current values of the output tubes. The key is to find a good match of combined plate current of the output tubes to sound the best/right. IT WOULD BE NICE IF THERE IS KNOB RIGHT AFTER THE OUTPUT TUBE TUBE-CIRCUIT ON THE TRANSPORTER SO THAT ONE CAN INCREASE/DECREASE THE CURRENT VALUE. Given two tubes of the same brand of type 83 tubes, each may need to use a different set of output tubes with different combined plate current values to sound the best.
Type 83 tubes have mercury vapor in side the glass, similar to fluorescence light bulbs & compact fluorescence light bulbs (the government is forcing everyone to use in the near future). Mercury vapor will escape into the air if the glass is broken. Mercury vapor is toxic.
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:o :o :o
Here is my latest tube rolling experience with the Transporter: Type 83 for rectification and 6H8C for output. These tubes are relatively cheap compared with other well known types.
What I found out was that at least for the type 83 tubes, that the sound is different with a different combined plate current value on the output tubes. And I can hear a difference of sound with a change of .01mA of the combined plate currents of the output tubes. Example of tube configurations:
(out1 p1) (out1 p2)
x.xxmA 7.00mA (combined = 14.68mA)
(Type 83 tube1)
(out2 p1) (out2 p2)
7.68mA x.xxmA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(out1 p1) (out1 p2)
x.xxmA 7.35mA (combined = 14.69mA)
(Type 83 tube1)
(out2 p1) (out2 p2)
7.34mA x.xxmA
x.xxmA are plates not being used by the Transporter. If you switch the output tube's positions then those plates will be used instead. In almost all cases, the combined values will be different between the two sets. I don't know if the plate currents of all the plates are the same in the grade-A Black Treasure tube pair, or they are just very close between them.
A higher combined plate current value will have a more compressed sound. A lot lower value will produce a some what a flabby sound. One need to find a value that produces the sound you like, such that you will hear the sound of the string vibration of an instrument rather than more of a woody sound of the strike on the string.
I found GE, RCA, Sylvania brands of type 83 sounded similar, but they each take on a different ranges of combined plate current values of the output tubes. The key is to find a good match of combined plate current of the output tubes to sound the best/right. IT WOULD BE NICE IF THERE IS KNOB RIGHT AFTER THE OUTPUT TUBE TUBE-CIRCUIT ON THE TRANSPORTER SO THAT ONE CAN INCREASE/DECREASE THE CURRENT VALUE. Given two tubes of the same brand of type 83 tubes, each may need to use a different set of output tubes with different combined plate current values to sound the best.
Type 83 tubes have mercury vapor in side the glass, similar to fluorescence light bulbs & compact fluorescence light bulbs (the government is forcing everyone to use in the near future). Mercury vapor will escape into the air if the glass is broken. Mercury vapor is toxic.
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I saw this 5U4G on E-Bay for very little $$$. The top getter version of this tube is supposed to be a great rectifier although I have not tried one. The bottom getter version is common, but you don't see many with the top getter. The seller says it tests 'good', the getter flashing looks a bit thin but it may have a lot of life left in it.
I have no affiliation with this seller and I don't need any more tubes!
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11021.m45.l1123/7?euid=a310fb9a124a4cd5864ee2b0206c1118&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D270891216706%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123
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Don't know if any of you snagged the TS top getter 5U4G, but it has sold on E-Bay!~
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I realize I am reviving an old thread. I am seeking advice on a problem I am having with the MWTP. I am getting no sound out of my analog output (both XLR and RCA). Digital output is working fine. The two output tubes are lighting up, but the rectifier isn't. I tried two different rectifiers (stock modwright and EML mesh) and they both don't light up, so I think its a problem with the MWTP and not the tubes. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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Mine does the same thing every so often, but when I wiggle the rectified a little, it lights back up... dirty pins in my case, yours may be a little more than that... I would remove the cover and visually check for any loose wires. If nothing looks out of place I would test some connections by very gently pulling on some wires (starting at the Rect tube socket) and tracing the path as far as I could... Or just call Dan and see about sending it in for repair.
Also, try a third rectifier if you have one, it's unlikely but not impossible that the two you tried are bad.
Good luck
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@ funkmonkey, thanks so much for the advice. I am happy and much relieved to say that I replaced the fuse (3.15amp, 5x20mm, slow from radio shack) today and now getting sound from the analog outs. This thread was helpful in directing me to the possibility of a blown fuse.
I took delivery of this unit yesterday and I am hearing the analog MWTP for first time and it is very impressive.
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That's great news!
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Sorry for posting this as a reply -- but as a newly joined member - I can't post a new message & I'm hoping I can get some direction with a problem I'm having with tube rolling on the transporter.
I bought a set of Black Treasure 6SN7 tubes and a pair of 8(f) to 9(m) pin socket adapters (tried to find the Bolder adapters - but it seems they are NLA) --
Installing them in the transporter -- I get no sound & the tubes don't heat up -- took the tubes and had them tested -- Tubes are fine -- but it seems the adapters have a short (according to the tube tester when testing them as 6CG7 tubes ( tube and adapter together )
Does anyone know where I can source a proper pair of adapters from a reliable source (new or used) -- for use with a 6SN7 tube - in a 6CG7 socket. Ebay shows several sources -- but that's where I got the last set -- which don't work. Any help or direction would be appreciated
thanks
Bart
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Hi Bart, did you manage to source the correct adapters?
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Is anyone still there? I'm a newbie here and I have a Transporter/Modwright. I wouldn't mind some tube advice.
If anyone is there...
hello...?
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Hey there. I am no audio expert, but I have owned the MWTP for 8 years and have rolled many a tube. Fire away.....
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Hey there. I am no audio expert, but I have owned the MWTP for 8 years and have rolled many a tube. Fire away.....
Well, I guess I should check this forum more often. :duh:
Okay, I'm in a new position, so here goes:
My MWTP started popping at unexpected times--very loud and scary. I realized that it would make the pop if I tapped one of the tubes. Luckily, I had another set and was able to resolve the problem.
The issue is that I don't like the sound as much as I did before. I had CV181-Zs (Shuguang Black Treasures?) and a 5u4GB GE rectifier (according to the box, although the tube says Dumont-Emerson).
Now I have the same rectifier and Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tubes.
So, I'm willing to put some $$ into getting great sound again. I don't want go down the rabbit hole of tube rolling, but am willing to upgrade. Where would you put the $$? Get new CV181-Zs? Change rectifier?
Advice?
Thanks!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188694)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188698)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188697)
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Hi ajhess,
If you liked the Black Treasures get them again. I used them in MWTP and another of Dan’s tube stages. You’ll also get a bigger sonic change with the two signal tubes than the rectifier. But if you wanted to change both try the EML recti mention in this thread somewhere.
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It's great to be getting some guidance on this. I'm trying to read through this thread as quickly as possible (I'm on page 16--this is dense stuff!). In the meantime, I could use some feedback:
Is there any opinion on the Dumont-Emerson rectifier I have and, for that matter, the Tung-Sols?
From reading the thread, it sounds as if the rectifier makes a real difference. But the $$ for the EML??? Yikes!! Any other candidates for best bang for the buck rectifier?
Only one of my Black Treasures seemed to be subject to the popping sounds--could I get away with buying only one new BT or do I need matched pairs?
Okay, thanks. Now I'm going back to read the thread. :)
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Give the Sophia Aqua 274B a try. Its a direct replacement for any of the 5AR4/5U4G family of tubes. I use one in the PS 9.0 in my OPPO 205 and it made a dramatic difference. See the other online reviews for more info....
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Update:
I'm on page 30 of the thread! Struggling to keep the codes/numbers straight. Here's my current thoughts on the rectifier:
I assumed the GE box was for the rectifier, but GE is not Dumont-Emerson. I'm not finding any info on the DE tube that I have. Is it any good? I'm starting to talk myself into getting the EML Mesh, especially if my current tube is meh.
Does it make sense to put $$ into the rectifier, then maybe save $ on RCA Cleartops? That combo seems to work well, and I'd save on the Black Treasures. (I'm also thinking that I could talk myself into a LITTLE BIT of tube rolling by getting RCAs and BTs).
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Okay, update update (man, this thread has quieted down! Has everyone's MWTP died, or are you all happily listening to music and done with tube rolling?!? :o
I've read through this forum and I'm talking myself into the EML Mesh. I emailed Dan (very patient, thanks, Dan) and he confirms that I have lowered voltage (.2 ohm resister in place) and 22uf caps. :thumb: I take this as a sign that I was MEANT to have the EMLs. Are people out there still happy/safe with the EMLs?
Questions:
Since I think I still have one good Black Treasure, I'd love it if I could get by with getting just one to replace my wonky one. Is that doable? I'm in Brooklyn. Could I bring my BT and have it matched somewhere around here? I also wouldn't mind having the bad one checked. The box is from TheTubeStore and has a "matched and balanced" sticker with a "20" on it. Does that help?
Anyone in Brooklyn want to come by with some tubes and help this tube newbie (tewbie?) try some stuff out? There's good beer in it for you! :)
I have the Tung Sol 6SN7 red base Russian tubes. How good are these in comparison to the other 6SN7s people have mentioned in this thread?
Finally I can't find anything on the rectifier I'm using - a Dumont-Emerson 3222-14-3 (see pic). Does anyone know anything about it? I'm hoping it's really crappy, so I can look forward to the huge change with the EML!
System (for anyone who is interested)
I have a Sony TA4650 VFET amp that I bought in '76 (my first entry into audio). When it died a few years ago, I ended up recapping it troubleshooting, and putting in the diodes mods that will keep it healthy. I feed the MWTP to the amp section. It will be buried with me.
MWTP with a Raspberry Pi/LMS/touchscreen console and FLAC ripped music.
Totem Hawk speakers.
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Since I think I still have one good Black Treasure, I'd love it if I could get by with getting just one to replace my wonky one. Is that doable? I'm in Brooklyn. Could I bring my BT and have it matched somewhere around here? I also wouldn't mind having the bad one checked. The box is from TheTubeStore and has a "matched and balanced" sticker with a "20" on it. Does that help?
Anyone in Brooklyn want to come by with some tubes and help this tube newbie (tewbie?) try some stuff out? There's good beer in it for you! :)
I have the Tung Sol 6SN7 red base Russian tubes. How good are these in comparison to the other 6SN7s people have mentioned in this thread?
Just my opinion...
You can buy a pair of NOS Tung Sols for $100 which would be as nice as your black treasures and significantly better than the new production Tung Sols.
I used to own a MW Transporter and used to have a pair of Black Treasures but never found them to be nicer than old production tubes.
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It seems that there are so many types of Tung-Sols (I have a pair). And I don't want to pay $450 for the round plates. Which do you recommend? Again, I'm trying to avoid going down the tube rolling rabbit hole.
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It seems that there are so many types of Tung-Sols (I have a pair). And I don't want to pay $450 for the round plates. Which do you recommend? Again, I'm trying to avoid going down the tube rolling rabbit hole.
It is really personal taste but I have enjoyed a pair like these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Tung-sol-JAN-CTL-6SN7W-WGTA-Tubes-Brown-Base-Chrome-Top-Vt-231-5692/183627224605?hash=item2ac109161d:g:JnoAAOSwOWdcNSYQ (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Pair-Tung-sol-JAN-CTL-6SN7W-WGTA-Tubes-Brown-Base-Chrome-Top-Vt-231-5692/183627224605?hash=item2ac109161d:g:JnoAAOSwOWdcNSYQ)
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ajhess, tube rolling can be a black hole one goes into with this hobby. If you like how the Shuguang Black Treasure 6sn7 sounded with the Dumont rectifier, then go back to that as a starting point. I'm assuming the "noisy" tube was one of the 6sn7s. If that's the case, leave the rectifier in place, and purchase another pair of the 6sn7s. That gets you back to where you were, and gives you something to compare other tubes to directly. Then you can think about trying other 6sn7s and rectifiers.
Personally, I don't see a need to purchase a $300 rectifier at this moment in time, but I don't want to tell you how to spend your money. There are plenty of quality rectifiers available for much less money. Send Dan an email and verify exactly what rectifiers can and cannot be used with this device. Get clarity on that first, then contact someone like Andy at Vintage Tube Services and ask him for advise. He won't recommend a $300 tube when a $40 tube will work as well.
Tube rolling can be very system specific. What others hear from tube "x" may not be what you hear in your system. Get back to square one, then slowly make changes.
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Great advice. I'll report back.
Thanks, all!
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Another thought (I still have my eye on the EML Mesh): my house current is usually around 124v. Even with the voltage lowering mod, could this higher current spell danger for the rectifier?
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Another thought (I still have my eye on the EML Mesh): my house current is usually around 124v. Even with the voltage lowering mod, could this higher current spell danger for the rectifier?
So have you bought a rectifier yet?
I use this one with my LS-100 and MTP, https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/philips-5r4gys-made-in-holland
It is really amazing what a difference it makes, just stunning.
Unfortunately, Upscale has steadily increased the price in the last 3 years. When I bought mine it was only $80.
My voltage runs high, like 125-127, and I've never had an issue, with lots of hours on the LS-100.
BTW, I use the Black Treasures with both my ModWright tubes stages. I would get another set.
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yes. I ended up with the EML mesh and a pair of RCA gray glass tubes. I also auditioned a pair of Tung Sols and RCA VT 231. I really like the results. The two three ones We're lovely with voices, but made everything else sound Bland. The grey glass tubes often make me look up from what I'm doing when I hear something I didn't expect in the music. it's made the music really present. I've decided the black Treasures are blah, at least with my setup.
Apologies for my autocorrect.
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Picked up this guy today. Happy days!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209293)
:thumb:
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On order, can’t wait.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211192)