House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!

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JDUBS

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #20 on: 22 Aug 2009, 01:08 am »
Frank, how is the Liebert on dynamics?  I run my front end stuff on a balanced power tranformer (Risch style) but haven't used my amps on it given my concerns for dynamics compression.  Would be cool to get more detail on your setup...maybe a separate thread.

Thanks,
Jim

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #21 on: 22 Aug 2009, 03:06 am »
Would be cool to get more detail on your setup...maybe a separate thread.
........With pictures.  aa

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #22 on: 22 Aug 2009, 01:07 pm »
Frank, how is the Liebert on dynamics?  I run my front end stuff on a balanced power tranformer (Risch style) but haven't used my amps on it given my concerns for dynamics compression.  Would be cool to get more detail on your setup...maybe a separate thread.

Thanks,
Jim

Jim- the Liebert is great on dynamics- something I'm very aware of with my SP Tech speakers. However the Liebert is not a balanced power transformer. It is an online "double conversion" UPS system.  I'm feeding 120 volt 30 amp regenerated pure sine wave AC to my Furman which distributes to my components. The balanced transformer inside the Furman is for source components only, not for amplifiers. I believe you can run amplifiers off some of the bigger balanced transformers (i.e. Torus, Equitech, etc.).

Also my 5 kVA isolation transformer is probably not necessary with the Liebert but I already had it installed and like that it is being fed 240 volts and stepping it down to 120. Kind of a first line of "cleansing" and protection.  :D

I should reiterate that while the Liebert UPS does everything I want from a "power supply" point of view, the sonics are amazing as well. My system has never sounded better! I have tried multiple power conditioners over the years and my setup now is the best for my system.  Again it might not be the best approach for everyone, but given the piece of mind you get along with superior sound it might be worth investigating. Given what I have experienced I would easily purchase a new Liebert for $2000. I have spent far more and gotten a lot less.

http://www.purepoweraps.com/  Pure Power APS just came out with a 20 amp double conversion on line UPS which is probably better suited for audiophile applications than the Liebert. Appears to be getting some great reviews. I used to owner their 1050 model years ago, but it couldn't power my whole system.  Their 20 amp model is $2995.

This thread is what got me interested in the Liebert............
http://www.ultrahighendforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40

Also this one.........
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781671&highlight=liebert

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #23 on: 22 Aug 2009, 01:08 pm »
Sorry if I'm taking your thread off topic Bob. I hope to start a separate thread at some point with pictures.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #24 on: 22 Aug 2009, 02:32 pm »
No worries at all Frank, you're giving some great information here. Don't stop.
Although, if I went to my wife and told her I need to replace my UPS with a three thousand dollar unit, you folks would not see or hear from me again. Well, maybe on the side of a milk carton.

I've never heard the names Liebert and Furman until now. I did a quick search on Ebay to see what's out there. Found a few pieces of interest (including a Furman 31 band graphic EQ that looks neat). But I did find > THIS < Liebert UPS for $187. That looks more reasonably priced for a guy like me.
If you start a new thread, please feel free to post a link to it here.

Bob

JDUBS

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #25 on: 22 Aug 2009, 05:20 pm »
Yep, this us great info Frank, thanks!!

Sounds like you can use the Liebert on amps with no issue.  What I might try is the Liebert->balaced power transformer for my front end stuff and run my amps straight out of the Liebert.  Maybe terminate the 30amp output of the Liebert with a power strip and the plug my balanced power transformer and amps into that.  For ~$200, probably worth a shot, especially if you can modify it so that fan noise us not an issue.

-Jim

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #26 on: 22 Aug 2009, 05:37 pm »
Good point about the fan Jim. The unit I linked to has a noise level of 40dB.  :?

Bob

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #27 on: 22 Aug 2009, 08:55 pm »
Mine has three fans (rated at  50 dBA) and it sounded like a leaf blower when I first got it.  :nono: If the fan change didn't work I couldn't have used it because it has to be in the room with me. That's one of the reasons I jumped on the $249 Ebay ad because it wasn't too much of a risk if my project failed.

The fans were very easy for me to change. There was one if the front of the unit and two in the rear. YMMV but if you have worked on a PC you can probably change the fan.  Just make sure you disconnect the main electrical input AND the batteries before working on the unit!!!!

These are the fans I bought...............

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8398/fan-514/Noiseblocker_NB-Multiframe_M8-S2_80mm_x_25mm_Ultra_Silent_Fan_-_1700_RPM_-_14_dBA.html?tl=g33c165s356&id=6NRBIBnB

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #28 on: 22 Aug 2009, 09:41 pm »
I installed a Liebert GXT2-3000 3 kVA on-line "double conversion" UPS. Liebert has an excellent reputation for making some of the best UPS systems around.
I found a GXT2-2000RT120 (as opposed to your "3000") on Ebay for $135 (current bid price).
Is this along the lines of what you're talking about?

Bob

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #29 on: 22 Aug 2009, 09:46 pm »
Ok.....I just found a new "3000" for $206 (current price) with shipping.
Is > THIS < what you're talking about?
Wow, that monster is 75 pounds?!?!  :o

It'll be a while before I'm ready to spend the cash, but I really do thank you for the information you've been giving Frank.

Bob

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #30 on: 22 Aug 2009, 10:12 pm »
Yup, that's the one Bob. 75 lbs for the "main" unit and 105 lbs each separate battery cabinet.  I 'll try to post a picture shortly.

This was another pretty good site..............

http://www.upsforless.com/doubleconversionupss-1.aspx

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #31 on: 23 Aug 2009, 03:47 pm »
I've been given clearance from my director of financial affairs for a $200-$300 expenditure on a UPS.
Quite surprising given our current financial situation, but she knows how much this means to me and the possible consequences to the equipment.

Time for some more research.
Frank, your advise has been invaluable. Thank you.

Bob

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #32 on: 23 Aug 2009, 04:30 pm »
Great news Bob. Just be patient- something good should pop up on E Bay. Try to determine what your needs are- the 2000 model is rated for 1400 watts and the 3000 model is good for 2100 watts continuous. I wanted my whole system off the UPS so I went with the 3000 model so I would have plenty of headroom. The Pure Power APS 20 amp version Model 2000 is rated for 1400 watts continuous as well so you might be able to get away with the Liebert 2000 model. 1400 watt continuous load is a lot of power.

Here are some pictures as promised.............You can see why I need the Furman or something similar to plug everything into. Too many power cords for just the Liebert.












Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #33 on: 23 Aug 2009, 04:35 pm »
I've been giving serious thought to the "LIEBERT GXT2 3000RT 120", and have been checking the manufacturers website. The only thing that I'm concerned with is that it says in the input cable/plug is a NEMA L5-30P.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a 30 amp plug? I don't have any of those in the house.
How do I get around that?  :scratch:
Would it be as simple as installing a NEMA 5-15P? Or would that not be recommended?

> HERE's a link < to the Liebert spec page. The "3000" is on the far right....(You can click the model numbers of the other units to get them off the screen).



Bob

EDIT:
THANKS FOR THE PICTURES!!

Frank, I've got a LOT of equipment I'd like to have on the UPS being a HT room and all. Like you, I'd like to have some headroom too.
Do you have your PC connected to it?
I assume the two gray "modules" on the left are the additional battery cases?

Bob

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #34 on: 23 Aug 2009, 04:40 pm »
I bought a male 30 amp plug and terminated my own 10 gauge AC cable to feed the Furman.
No PC on the UPS. I did use a PC to communicate with the Liebert to set my parameters, default settings, etc. Program worked perfectly. You can have the Liebert connected to a PC at all times if you would like. Yes the two vertical black cases are the external battery cabinets. You can orient them horizontally or vertically- doesn't matter.

I took a close up of the 30 amp output termination so you can see it.

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #35 on: 23 Aug 2009, 04:47 pm »
Ooops! Sorry Bob- misread your post  :duh:  Yes, you would need a 30 amp receptacle to plug the Liebert into- 15 or 20 amps will not work. The 3000 requires a 30 amp 120 volt wall outlet.  The 2000 model requires a 20 amp.
I'm fortunate that my electrical panel is about 5 feet away from everything so I can set up whatever I need very easily.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #36 on: 23 Aug 2009, 04:55 pm »
Ohh...  :|
My panel is about 50' away and is already chock full.
Looks like I'll be searching for "2000" models. Damn.

Thanks for the info Frank.
Bob

mikel51

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #37 on: 23 Aug 2009, 08:53 pm »
A PS Audio Power Plant Premier might also be the ticket for this kind of situation. 

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #38 on: 23 Aug 2009, 08:59 pm »
Yea, I'm sure it would....but for $2,000, I would certainly hope so.
Waaaaay too far out of my price range.
It would be fine if you could take a "zero" off that price.  :roll: :duh: :lol:

Bob

EDIT: On further investigation, there is one on Ebay for $1,000.
However, I doubt it has the capability "clean" voltages as low as the 80VAC I'm receiving, as it's not a UPS.

Frank S.

Re: House voltage ranges from 124VAC down to 80!
« Reply #39 on: 23 Aug 2009, 09:17 pm »
Fwiw I used to own the Power Plant Premier and just sold it a short time ago. mikel51 is correct that it will keep the voltage output steady at 120 volts and it is regenerated power albeit a different method than the Liebert. It wouldn't handle my whole system without the fans going into turbo mode. I think the Liebert is a better sounding unit, is built better, and is also a UPS- and is far cheaper if you buy a used one or refurbished.