AudioCircle
Industry Circles => SONORE by Simple Design => Topic started by: vortecjr on 1 Aug 2014, 11:52 am
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(http://www.rendu.sonore.us/Sonore-Signature-Series-Rendu-front-small.png)
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Introducing the Sonore Signature Series Rendu. We looked at the standard Rendu, already providing fantastic performance in many systems, and thought hard about how it might be improved, how we might lower jitter, and improve on its digital precision. We decided the correct way to go would be to upgrade all facets of the design making incremental improvements which add up to considerable performance gains. The power supply is upgraded both in parts quality and layout. The big addition is the new isolated, clock/re-clock, output board. By specification, the Ethernet input is already isolated from the noise on the network, but there is still some noise produced on the processing board. To generate an absolutely pure clock signal, we added a separate, isolated, output board with a separately regulated power supply. This output board holds the dual Crystek CCHD oscillators, the re-clocking circuitry, and the output drive circuitry for SPDIF and I2S. Because the Signature Series Rendu generates clean clocks and then reclocks on the output board right before the SPDIF and I2S output jitter is lowered even further. Additionally, a very special SPDIF driver circuitry results in a perfectly clean SPDIF waveform which allows one to get the best out of any SPDIF input DAC. While the original Rendu has set the Ethernet to SPDIF and I2S standard up to now, the new Signature Series Rendu takes performance to the next level, this is the best SPDIF and I2S we can make, and we suspect that you will think so as well.
SIGNATURE SERIES FEATURES
Beautiful custom made case built in the USA
Custom made footers with Sorbothane isolators
Power supply with internally shielded Plitron transformer (the best, from Canada)
QSpeed super soft diodes
Low ESR caps
Ultra-low noise discrete linear regulators
Custom made Sonore output board with SPDIF (BNC 75-Ohm) and LVDS i2s (HDMI)
Ultra high-quality SPDIF output
Output re-clocking totally isolated from the processor board
All signals re-clocked on the isolated board in an ultra-low noise environment via low phase noise oscillators (Crystek CCHD Series)
384K PCM ready (pending firmware)
Blue Jean bonded Ethernet cable with test certificate
Warranty card and manual
(http://www.rendu.sonore.us/Sonore-Signature-Series-Rendu-rear.png)
STANDARD FEATURES
Supports Tidal lossless streaming via BubbleUPNP controller on an Android device
Supports gapless playback
Supports DSD/DoP pass-through via SPDIF output
Isolation from server noise over a network
Asynchronous Ethernet to SPDIF / LVDS i2s output
Integrated, 32-bit, high precision volume control
Supports 24-bit PCM playback at sample rates up to 192KHz via SPDIF and LVDS i2s output
Supports native DSD playback up to DSD128 via LVDS i2s output
Controlled via apps on a computer, Android, and iOS device
UPnPTM AV 2.0 / DLNA compliant
Gold plated exposed copper on printed circuit boards
Impedance control on the digital output module
Stripline design with traces buried in the inner layers of the board to give the best signal integrity and EMI protection
(http://www.rendu.sonore.us/Sonore-Signature-Series-Rendu-footer.png)
LVDS i2s COMPATIBILITY
PS Audio - PerfectWave DAC MKI/MKII
PS Audio - DirectStream DAC
Rockna - Wavequest (pending verification)
Sonore - Signature Series DAC
K&K Audio - RAKK DAC
Wadia - Intuition (pending verification)
Wtred4Sound - DAC-2/DAC-2 DSDse
CONTROLLERS and SERVERS
Controllers for gapless playback
J River with/without J Remote, Audionet, Bubble UPNP, Foobar2000 with UPNP/DLNA plug-in
PCM servers
Diskstation, J River, MinimServer, Logitech Media Server (LMS), Mini DLNA, Assest, Twonky, eLyric Music Manager (EMM)
PCM + DSD/DoP servers
MinimServer running, J-River, Foobar2000 with SACD plug-in
SPECIFICATIONS
Dimension: 12.75in (width) x 3in (height) x 10.25in (depth)
Weight: TBDlb
Standard power ratings: 120VAC, 60Hz
OPTIONS
Cardas SPDIF or HDMI cable
Cardas power cord
Power input: 220 VAC *this unit is not CE rated*
AVAILABILITY
Discontinued
https://sonore.us
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Hi Jesus,
A couple of questions:
Does this run LMS so it is in fact a super duper Touch type product? If so, does it pass along or get Rhapsody, Spotify, Pandora or am I confused on how the product works?
When will the price be set?
It looks like a fantastic product,
Bill
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Hi Jesus,
A couple of questions:
Does this run LMS so it is in fact a super duper Touch type product? If so, does it pass along or get Rhapsody, Spotify, Pandora or am I confused on how the product works?
When will the price be set?
It looks like a fantastic product,
Bill
The Rendu project does not run LMS. The original Rendu and the new Signature Series Rendu are both built from the ground up to be audiophile products. The Rendu series is meant to work with DLNA/UPNP servers and controller for the playback of PCM and DSD content....it's simply a renderer. I'm aware of a way to stream those internet pay services to a renderer, but it's still be looked into. There is a way to stream free internet radio with custom playlist, but it's an advanced feature. The price will be set this weekend.
Jesus R
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Hi Jesus,
Could you can explain to me what Roundy different from computer?
It does not use any software players? Then how does it work?
You say that this device has a high-quality linear power supplies and regulators. It has no internal impulse voltage converting? All CPU voltage using only linear regulatots?
BR Igor
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Hi Jesus,
Could you can explain to me what Roundy different from computer?
It does not use any software players? Then how does it work?
You say that this device has a high-quality linear power supplies and regulators. It has no internal impulse voltage converting? All CPU voltage using only linear regulatots?
BR Igor
The is not an off the self computer motherboard. Instead it's a purpose build audio board with a high performance isolated digital output daughter card. Files are streamed directly to it via a DLNA/UPNP server such as a NAS or computer on your home network. You then use your mobile device or a computer as the controller...
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Hear the Sonore Signature Series Rendu at the NY Audio Show in Room 315
http://www.chestergroup.org/newyorkaudioshow/2014/exhibitors/xtreme-fidelity (http://www.chestergroup.org/newyorkaudioshow/2014/exhibitors/xtreme-fidelity)
Jesus R
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I have a bit of confusion over this two statements:
Supports DSD/DoP pass through via SPDIF output
Supports native DSD playback up to DSD128 via LVDS i2s output
So does this mean that it can put out DSD on both?
Somewhat related question. My current DAC only accepts up to 24/96 PCM on the SPDIF input. Is there some way to transcode native DSD files and PCM files over 24/96 to 24/96 PCM?
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My current DAC only accepts up to 24/96 PCM on the SPDIF input. Is there some way to transcode native DSD files and PCM files over 24/96 to 24/96 PCM?
If you use JRiver you can tell it for files over a certain sampling frequency (e.g. DSD) to play them back at 24/88.2 for example. The files can also be converted.
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Thanks
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I have a bit of confusion over this two statements:
Supports DSD/DoP pass through via SPDIF output
Supports native DSD playback up to DSD128 via LVDS i2s output
So does this mean that it can put out DSD on both?
Somewhat related question. My current DAC only accepts up to 24/96 PCM on the SPDIF input. Is there some way to transcode native DSD files and PCM files over 24/96 to 24/96 PCM?
Josh: The SSR will pass DSD files, encoded as DoP, through its SPDIF output. There are a few DSD DACs out there which do accept DoP (DSD encoded in PCM container, this is still native DSD, not converted to PCM) through their SPDIF inputs, but yours is not one of these (requires PCM 176.4 for one thing, is your DAC even DSD capable?). This will only work for DSD 64 files, as higher rates would require PCM 352.8 rates, not typically available via SPDIF.
The SSR will also pass native DSD through its I2S output, for DACs like the Wyred 4 Sound, and PS Audio DirectStream, which have the appropriate I2S input and DSD capability. The I2S output is capable of DSD 64 and DSD 128 rates.
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That explains it. I am not privy to all this hi-res stuff.
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Jesus,
Read the nice review on Computer Audiophile and wanted to ask a silly question or two. The SPDIF output, being 75 ohm cable, doesn't create a galvanic isolation, correct? Also, is it possible or worth using a cable with BNC connection on one end for connection to the Signature Rendu and the other end being a RCA for a DAC connection that does have USB or RCA like my DAC2 HGC? I am still trying to understand the advantages of SPDIF versus USB for high quality signal transmission. Thanks.
Best Regards,
Blu99Zoomer
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Thanks. It complies with the SPDIF 75 ohm spec where as a RCA connector would not. However, you can use a custom cable or an adapter. Cardas makes the custom cable for us as needed. The advantage of SPDIF is that it just works with nothing special needed such as setup and drivers...
Jesus R
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Announcement: 1. The Rendu series now supports Tidal lossless streaming via BubbleUPNP controller on an Android device. Special thanks go to BubbleUPNP for assisting us with Tidal lossless streaming on the Rendu series. Please support Bubblesoft by purchasing the pay version of the BubbleUPNP APP from the Google APP store.
Jesus R
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Update: The SSR now supports Tidal on the Kazoo (IOS) control point, too. Pick Tidal at the set up menu and log in using your credentials for Tidal. The playback is only Tidal catalog choices, not user defined favorites (for now), but the interface is nice.
The SSR has changed how I look at computer audio. That is evident in my review of the Directstream on CA.
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Update: The SSR now supports Tidal on the Kazoo (IOS) control point, too. Pick Tidal at the set up menu and log in using your credentials for Tidal. The playback is only Tidal catalog choices, not user defined favorites (for now), but the interface is nice.
The SSR has changed how I look at computer audio. That is evident in my review of the Directstream on CA.
There is a prerequisite for this to work. You need to install BubbleUPNP Server on your NAS or computer to turn the Rendu into an OpenHome Renderer.
Jesus R
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Hi Jesus,
Could you can explain to me what Roundy different from computer?
It does not use any software players? Then how does it work?
You say that this device has a high-quality linear power supplies and regulators. It has no internal impulse voltage converting? All CPU voltage using only linear regulatots?
BR Igor
Hey Igor,
I was reading through the thread and noticed that Jesus did not really answer your question completely, and I think it is time that we really got down to the details on what makes the SSR so special:
Indeed, there are no consumer computer boards in the SSR. The Ethernet processing board is a purpose built for high end audio product designed only to recieve and convert the Ethernet data stream into an I2S signal. This board (and the entire SSR) has no switching regulators, only linear regulators are used, and it is designed to be as low noise as possible with no compromises made for cost saving (as would be the case with commercial computer/processing devices). Additionally, the main regulator for this board is an ultra low noise and low impedance discrete linear regulator.
Even though the Ethernet processing board is designed to be as low noise as possible, it of course still has a high speed digital proccessor, and this processor does make some RF noise. Hence, we developed the isolated clock/re-clock board as described in the first post of this thread. The clock/re-clock board has 4 uV (that is microvolts of noise folks, not millivolts) onboard linear regulators, and provides the masterclock back to the Ethernet processing board, through isolation. Then the I2S and SPDIF outputs are re-clocked directly in the clean environment of the clock/re-clock board right before output.
So far, anyone who has experienced the SSR has determined that it is at the very least equal to any digital source they have ever heard, and better than most. Anyone interested in an Ethernet Renderer with the absolute highest level of performance needs to consider the SSR, and should also go read Ted Brady's review of the PS Audio DS DAC (at Computeraudiophile.com), where Ted found that the SSR elevated the DS DAC to a much higher level of performance.
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Ok, you'll have to excuse the newbie questions, but I still am not 100% sure how to set everything up. I've had the SSR for a while and still haven't got it running as I was confused what to do.
I have the SSR. I have a NAS. I also have an older vortexbox appliance, but I plan to migrate all the data from the VBA to the NAS and probably retire the VBA. I did buy JRiver on my laptop, but I'd prefer to use my Ipad for playback control. I have PCM and DSD files (recently bought a directstream dac).
So does the JRiver software need to be put onto the NAS? Or do I have to use my laptop running JRiver to play back? Is there anyway to use my Ipad for controller? I am not exactly non-technical but what I am not seeing is the big picture setup of how it all works together.
One of my buddies who is an IT guy is coming over Saturday morning to help me sort out all my networking and setup issues, so I am going to have him configure everything but I just want to know the best way to do it.
Downstairs in my HT room, I have an Oppo 105 that I was thinking of using to stream in this system, or else I'll pull out my squeezebox and use LMS somewhere. But I think the Oppo can read data off the NAS.
TIA,
Josh
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Josh, one step at a time. You bought the Rendu to stream, so I will address that (not your other playback devices like Oppo or Squeezebox).
Your Rendu needs to see a server with music on it. That can be:
1) a pc/laptop with JRIver running on it, pointing to the NAS for music files. In this case you make JRIver a DLNA server, and the Rendu sees it.
2) a pc/laptop with Minimserver running on it, pointing to the NAS for music files. Minimserver is then seen by the Rendu via ethernet.
3) my recommended setup (if your NAS can support it) is to use Minimserver installed directly on your NAS. Synology and a couple other NAS manufacturers support Minimserver. Your laptop is NOT involved and therefore does not need to be powered on nor running any server..
Use your ipad to browse your music collection. If you use JRiver as your DLNA server then use JRemote. If you use Minimserver (either on your pc or NAS) then use a UPnP app to browse your music, like Kinsky. However, much better is to use the improved OpenHome apps like Linn's Kazoo for your browsing remote control (or Lumin, etc). To do this, you have to make the Rendu look like an OpenHome renderer....so install the free BubbleServer on your NAS, too and in its setup create a copy if the Rendu for OpenHome.
OpenHome allows better playlist management (playlists stay with the Rendu, not the ipad app) and better overall browsing.
The best connection is to use a good HDMI cable and connect the Rendu to the Directstrem via I2S (both units use an HDMi connector). Using I2S you do not need to set Minimserver to do DoP cuz I2S will accept raw direct DSD (like using ASIO).
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Your laptop is NOT involved and therefore does not need to be powered on nor running any server..
With the exception that you will want Minimwatch on that laptop as it makes using Minimserver much easier.
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With the exception that you will want Minimwatch on that laptop as it makes using Minimserver much easier.
Good point Jason.
Josh, Minimwatch is a small stub of an app that can sit on ANY machine in your network. You use it to rescan Minimserver or change settings like tag order, etc.
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Thanks a bunch. Yeah, I only mentioned the Oppo/Squeezebox as I will contend with that later and might give it some thought on the best solution for the Rendu. But you helped me a great deal. I have a QNAP NAS, so I'll look to see if it is compatible with Minimserver.
Edit: so on qnap's website, they offer the Minimserver download as apps for the QNAP, so I think we are good with it. I don't know if I follow the OpenHome config, but will give it a shot.
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This is a screenshot from the Synology (and then the Bubble URL setup screen), after I installed Bubbleserver. I'm sure the Qnap has a similar section.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125502)
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Thanks guys for pitching in...
In BubbleUPNP Server I recommend that you name the Room as Signature Rendu-OH so you can tell things apart.
Jesus R
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Hi Jesus,
I'd just like to thank you for having enough passion for audio to take the time you took to build this incredible product! Your truly among a rare breed of forward thinkers in this industry. Congrats!
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Hello
Perhaps you can help me.
I just purchased a Sonore Rendu with i2s output.
I'm having difficulty setting it up.
I have Jriver 19 running on a laptop. It is pointing to a library on a Synology NAS server.
The SSR is connected to my network via ethernet and connected to a Wyred4Sound DAC to the i2s input.
I went to Jriver Tools>Options>Media Network and checked the box "use media network to share this library and enable DLNA"
I looked under "Playing Now' in Jriver and I don't see anything that looks like Sonore Rendu. Nor in Windows network, I don't see any reference to Sonore Rendu
Can you give me any suggestions?
I note that JRiver wiki on DNLA suggests turning off Windows media sharing services. Since this laptop has been used as a dedicated audio server, I removed Windows Media Sharing Services some time ago.
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:thumb:
Well. False alarm. I got it working. I think I had a loose plug in my power conditioner.
The Rendu is working perfectly. I have Jriver reading from a library on the NAS and playing through the Rendu to W4S DAC.
I had been playing directly from a Toshiba Lap Top to the USB port in the W4S. This is a great improvement in sound
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...I went to Jriver Tools>Options>Media Network and checked the box "use media network to share this library and enable DLNA"...
I'm not at my computer right now so I can't check this but as I recall just below the "enabled DLNA" box is a drop down menu that has format or bit rate options that needs to be moved from the default of "mp3". I'm sure someone will chime in about it.
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I posted this question on another SSR thread a few days ago by mistake, so apologies for re-posting here, but that inquiry never received a reply.
I'm using the Signature Series Rendu with a NAS running Minimserver and a tablet running Bubble Upnp as a controller. The sound quality is terrific; Thanks Ted! I'd like to upgrade the controller to Roon, and I'm curious what the status of making the SSR a Roon endpoint is. I see the new MicroRendu is a Roon endpoint, so I'm assuming the SSR would be capable with either a hardware/software change? Please advise.
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I posted this question on another SSR thread a few days ago by mistake, so apologies for re-posting here, but that inquiry never received a reply.
I'm using the Signature Series Rendu with a NAS running Minimserver and a tablet running Bubble Upnp as a controller. The sound quality is terrific; Thanks Ted! I'd like to upgrade the controller to Roon, and I'm curious what the status of making the SSR a Roon endpoint is. I see the new MicroRendu is a Roon endpoint, so I'm assuming the SSR would be capable with either a hardware/software change? Please advise.
I asked this a few months ago. No plans to support Roon on the SSR or any new Sonore device that might have I2S and Roon.
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I asked this a few months ago. No plans to support Roon on the SSR or any new Sonore device that might have I2S and Roon.
Thanks for getting back to me Todd. I was kind of hoping someone from Sonore would fill us in on what the hold back is. Don't some of the Raspberry Pi devices work with Roon and I2s? Couldn't we use S/PDIF (for most data)? What allows Roon to work via USB with the MicroRendu, but not I2s?
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The SSR is DLNA only and it does not appear that Roon is going to support DLNA. The microRendu supports various output protocols including RoonReady which Roon can stream to. The microRendu is USB only and there is no extra circuits on board to include i2s output. You can use a Pi if you are very handy with Linux. However, i2s on the Pi is not in the same league as the SSR. A much better solution is a proper USB to i2s converter which. FYI We might build one in a few months based on the SSR case, power supply and i2s/SPDIF output board.
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The SSR is DLNA only and it does not appear that Roon is going to support DLNA....
Thanks for responding vortecjr.
It appears that the PS Audio Bridge II (for use with their Directstream DAC) is a DLNA renderer that is (now) a Roon endpoint. Perhaps Roon now supports DLNA?
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Thanks for responding vortecjr.
It appears that the PS Audio Bridge II (for use with their Directstream DAC) is a DLNA renderer that is (now) a Roon endpoint. Perhaps Roon now supports DLNA?
Roon does not support DLNA and will likely not support it anytime soon. What PS Audio has done is to add Roon Ready to they interface.
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vortecjr, In an attempt to not muddle up this thread with multiple questions i tried sending this post as a PM but your box is either full or not accepting messages.
Roon does not support DLNA and will likely not support it anytime soon. What PS Audio has done is to add Roon Ready to they interface.
I've been trying to read up on Roon to better understand this conversation. I really don't have the technical skills.
It appears Roon is working with some of their partners to write software that will give some network attached streaming devices (as opposed to USB) the "Roon Ready" designation you mentioned. Apparently, PS Audio, Bryston and perhaps some others are now "Roon Ready" over Ethernet. PS Audio has told me their Bridge is a DLNA device. Are you saying it's just not possible for Roon to write software that will make the SSR "Roon Ready"? Or Sonore can't "add Roon Ready" to your interface? Or does the "Roon Ready" designation have compromised sound quality? Or something else?
My SSR is the best computer sound quality device I've heard. I have 3 friends who heard mine and all purchased one from the same dealer in NJ. You can't say more about a product than that. I (and a couple of the others in my club) would just like to know what's on the horizon. We have a ton of money tied up in these players and would like to utilize them with this new controller.
Thanks
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RoonReady and DLNA are two different protocols. You can have hardware that supports one or the other or both. The SSR currently only supports DLNA. We are looking at making the SSR RoonReady, but no determination has been made. I can't even begin to comment on SQ at this point in time. At the moment what we offer that is RoonReady and DLNA capable is the microRendu which is a Ethernet to USB interface.
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We are developing a new application for the Sonicorbiter operating system that will facilitate using Roon Server with the Sonore Signature Series Rendu and other DLNA/UPNP devices. Why...because Roon Server currently doesn't support DLNA/UPNP devices. Testing of the new application is in beta form and working nicely here.
Click here for more information on the SonoreUPnP Bridge application:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-sonoreupnp-bridge-beta-30468/
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....Click here for more information on the SonoreUPnP Bridge application:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-sonoreupnp-bridge-beta-30468/
I just started using Roon as a controller. The link you provided is no longer available and I'd like to learn how to set up my SSR as a Roon endpoint. Thanks in advance.
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try this link:
https://forums.sonicorbiter.com/forum/support-for-sonore-products/quick-start-guides/22-sonoreupnp-bridge
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Thank you for the link. The SSR is listed as a supported device for SonoreUPnP Bridge but I don't have any of the listed hardware. I've stopped using Minimserver on the NAS and am using Roon Server on a NUC. Would like to continue using the SSR as a DLNA/UPnP endpoint the same way I always have but controlling with Roon. Can I put the Sonore Bridge on the SSR, NUC or NAS? How can I make this work?
Thanks,
Jim
AVAILABILITY
The SonoreUPnP Bridge application is available on the following hardware:
microRendu, ultraRendu, opticalRendu, microJukebox, and sonicTransporter series
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Okay, I didn't realize Sonore UPnP Bridge was hardware I needed for this, I thought it was software.
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories/products/upnpbridge
Found some information on the Roon forums about putting this together to get the SSR working with Roon.
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Is there a place I can download the Bridge software and build my own Pi, or is it necessary to purchase one from a vendor like SGC?
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We offer it on the Rendu series with Ethernet input and USB output. Also SGC makes a unit prebuilt with just the app installed.
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We offer it on the Rendu series with Ethernet input and USB output. Also SGC makes a unit prebuilt with just the app installed.
Thanks, I see that SGC sells the Raspberry Pi loaded with your Bridge software. My question is, is there someplace I can download the Bridge software from and build my own Pi, or do I need to purchase the Pi preloaded from a vendor?