[RoadTripper]

Hi. After a 8+ year hiatus on Audiocircle, I'm back with a few questions. I'm retiring in 3 months and am planning on outfitting my new man cave with some changes to my audio system (which has mostly been unused for those 8+ years). My plan is to feed my 140 GB of FLAC files (as well as Spotify tracks) off my MacBook Pro directly into some DAC and some Amp. My speakers will remain my Zu's.

I'll be replacing my Squeezebox, Altmann Attraction DAC and RedWine mono blocks. I guess that means I need being brought up to date on what's out there in the way of the latest in DACs and amps. Also the amp needs to operate as a headphone amp as well. Price?? I'm thinking somewhere between $3000-$4000. After all, I'm retiring and need to reward myself.

Thanks for any input.

[mresseguie]

Congrats on your upcoming retirement.

There's such a huge selection of amp/preamps/DACs available that I'm hard pressed to know how to start. Here goes:

All in one (amp,pre,DAC) units worth considering:

Devialet 200 (other models exist)
Vinnie Lio
Nuprime IDA-8 or IDA-16

Separates:
The world....is huge...
Are you interested in low power or high power amps? Solid state, hybrid, or tube?

DACS:

Nuprime DAC-10H
Resonessance DACS
The newest Schiit DAC
The newest iFi DAC

I won't suggest outrageously expensive DACs cuz they'll use up nearly all of your budget. The newest DACs in the $900 to $1600 range are pretty amazing, and leave enough $$ in your pocket to buy decent amp/preamp.

You'll get lots of ideas here. Do your due diligence and enjoy!

Michael

[TomS]

It's above your price point when fully loaded, but I'd be looking real hard at the new Vinnie Rossi LIO, as it is completely modular. The power amp module would be fine for Zu's. I absolutely love mine 

[richidoo]

iFi DSD is awesome. SQ comparable to my souped up Buffalo DAC. It is also a very powerful portable headphone amp, USB input from your MacBook or iPhone, extreme jitter reduction, knob volume control, SPDIF output, RCA outputs, and it's battery powered for portabililty. $600. I used to have Attraction DAC, you will be pleasantly surprised how much better new DACs are now.

Use JRiver software player on your Mac laptop to control the tunes and the volume. It has 64 bit DSP processing, so digital volume and effects are harmless to the music.

Tube amps can be very satisfying if your speakers offer a tube friendly load as yours does. But too cheap tube amps are not worth it because the output transformers get the cost cutting and they make or break the SQ. Your budget and speaker sensitivity are in the sweet spot for a good tube amp (2000-5000.) Audio Research, Music Reference, Rogue, Manley, VTL, VAC, Cary, Melody are good sounding, high quality brands. Be prepared for a learning curve with tube amps. To live happily with tubes you need spare tubes and fuses on hand and patience/tolerance of the old technology quirks and not be obsessed with SQ and tweaks.  If music is what matters, tube amp can really deliver.

[jarcher]

As much as it's nice to simplify and reduce the box count, I'd suggest avoiding the temptation to try to cover an amp, dac and headphone amp in one, particularly at your budget.  "Jack of all trades, master of none".  For starters, most integrated amps don't have the best headphone amp section in them.  Secondly, digital sources if anything, is what's moving the quickest in terms of improvement year to year : you don't really want to be stuck with an obsolete DAC in your integrated a few years down to road.  NAD to some degree is trying to reduce that risk w/ removable DAC modules, so hopefully they will offer upgrades in the future as necessary and not just go to a whole new unit.

With all that said, I guess what would make most sense at this point to meet your original requirements would be a Parasound Halo Integrated @ $2500 that at least has a reasonably up to date inboard DAC and probably an ok headphone amp.  Another good - possibly better - option would be a Hegel H160 @ $3500 : the smoother more musical option.  Parasound will likely have a bit more bite, if that's more your thing, and save you $1K.  Me, I'd go for the Hegel.

I'd add to that a Bluesound Node as a replacement for the Squeezebox - they are just releasing the V2 model now.  Ultimately will be a better sounding and more convenient experience vs Macbook @ only $500.

At least that way you'll be reducing four boxes to two and keeping the budget to $3 - 4K (bit more w/ some cables + tax if applicable).

Nonetheless - unless reducing the box count is of paramount importance, I'd still consider separates for amp, dac and headphone amp (and streamer!).  Many many good options there for all three (or four) new and used and still possible to keep it under $4K.

[poseidonsvoice]

It's above your price point when fully loaded, but I'd be looking real hard at the new Vinnie Rossi LIO, as it is completely modular. The power amp module would be fine for Zu's. I absolutely love mine 

+1. And Vinnie will keep improving his modules. Also you get off the grid which is a big plus. I would look into it seriously. You will cut down on interconnects and power cables. Think about it....hard!

Auralic's Aries Mini is coming in October 2015 for $399, as a combo streamer + dac or as a streamer alone. It will easily be a SB Touch competitor and far more IMHO. Also can be sold used for close to what you bought it for. I would try it as a streamer. For better performance, one can spring for Aries (w/Femto clocks, external PS, etc...).

Best,
Anand.

[JLM]

Which model of Zu (efficiency, ohms), room size, sound pressure level goal?

Doesn't Zu have it's own forum?  That's where I'd look for amp suggestions.

We're still in a world of tubes and solid state, but larger digital amps have lost and re-gained respect in the last few years.

One of the developments in recent years has been many offerings of combination DAC/pre-amps and DAC/pre-amp/headphone-amps.  This lowers cost but limits flexibility in the still fast changing world of DACs.  A good site to investigate these products is audiostream.com.  In addition you should also look at Schiit Audio, they offer a variety of quality build/priced in your range solid state and tube headphone/pre-amps and DACs (the top of the line are upgradable).

Speaking of which there are now two families of digital formats: PCM (Redbook being the grandfather at 16/44, but now rates are available up to 32/768) and DSD/DXD (from the old Sony SACD technology with rates from 64 to 512 times that of Redbook).  But frankly most of these higher rates, especially DSD, have very limited libraries of music available (DSD/DXD signals cannot be manipulated, so nearly all are PCM uploads).

To learn how to rip your CDs, check the 6th thread in the Apple Core Circle: Computer Audio on the Mac - Getting Started.

Realize that retirement should last for a long time, even before the wheels start coming off, so don't consider this your last audio system just yet.

[Gopher]

I'll let someone else comment on DACs, but for Zu speakers I have a strong recommendation for Melody or Redgum.   They had a very nice synergy!

[RoadTripper]

Hi everyone and thanks for the many replies and helpful suggestions. I have acted on one of them already. I installed for a trial period the JRiver Media Center. I think it will most likely stick around although I find its many options somewhat confusing. There are some really nice features that surprised me. One in particular is the ability to slow the speed of the track down without lowering the pitch. I plan to use that to transcribe spoken audio.

As for the planned equipment upgrade I have come to the conclusion that the wisest course for now is to get my current setup back in operation. It literally hasn't been used for over 5 years. I need to know whether or not what I have is just fine. (It was 5 years ago). The Squeezebox though is probably not gonna be resurrected. That's just too much work. I'll have to figure out how to drive my Altmann Attraction directly from my Macbook Pro.

I neglected to mention that the Zus (which are the original Druids) aren't my only speakers. I also have the VMPS RM40s. Either pair, as you know, can be driven by almost anything. I am also a Red Wine early adopter, having been nearly the first buyer of the Clari-T after which I graduated to the mono-block pair I now have. So, the Vinnie LIO is on my radar.

One thing I picked up having been lurking around Audiocircle this last week is the statement that Digital Amps fell on hard times apparently because their original lure morphed into the discovery that they weren't "all that". However they are now restored to glory in the estimation of many. Can anyone speak to that? Is this because they truly were flawed and now, due to further technological developments, they are the sonic wonders we all thought they were? Am I in for a real treat if I dive back in with some $$$$?

Once again, thank you for all the replies. You're all helping me along in my journey.

[kenreau]

Congrats on the retirement plans!  Just for something to noodle around and an idea of how much things have changed, check out a Devialet.  There is a D200 for sale here on the AC trading post for a reasonable price (although above your stated budget) It is an all-in-one preamp/amp/phono preamp/dac with nearly unlimited user adjustable configurations.  You get at least four functions in one box and it has great sound quality.  Its amp section is a hybrid with something like class D for main power and a class A output section (I may not have that description down correctly, just from memory on the fly)

All the best
Kenreau

[JLM]

With Logitech's acquisition and subsequent demise of Squeezebox there is still a gap in high quality/affordable alternatives that replace all the function.  But few will miss all the Squeezebox quirks/glitches most struggled with.  Nowadays it seems that most have a computer in the audio system (wireless is still a sound quality struggle) with a DAC and a tablet to control the source and a separate remote to control volume from the pre/integrated (for better sound).

I also drank the early Red Wine (Clari-T and the original battery powered DAC) but found deleterious effects of power aberrations to be very localized and not in either of my homes (one small, 50 years old with a rat's nest of wiring and the other new with a nearly ideal electrical power situation).  Also found that while the Clari-T did an amazingly good job with my full range 91 dB/w/m speakers, bumping up the power to 40-100 wpc really improved the grip on the speakers (improved dynamics/detail/imaging).

Initially digital amp technology (not surprisingly) hadn't matured and was (predictably) uniformly dismissed.  Now they've been rediscovered by the fickle.

Hopefully discretionary spending is always a treat.  With wise shopping and an eye towards synergy, you should find a new DAC and amp very worthwhile.

[RoadTripper]

Update: So I figured out that driving my Altmann Attraction DAC from my MacBook Pro was gonna be a fair amount of fiddling around so I unplugged it and got myself the Schiit Modi-2. And I used JRiver to feed my FLAC files to the rest of the (unchanged) system. It was quite a marked improvement over the previous DAC. So much so that I wondered how the Schiit boy's top of the line would sound. So I got it. The yggdrasil is now mine.

With nearing 400 hours of "burn-in" it is sounding really nice. Tone, impact, weight, bass, air, soundstage. It's got it all.

[JLM]

The class D amps lost the initial "new kid on the block" fascination, "old timers" naysayers rebounded, they then went through learning curves, and are back better than ever (having to earn their worth this time).