AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 11 Jul 2017, 10:12 am
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HOW TO LISTEN TO HIGH END AUDIO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsb4W144YNg#t=1108.752708
https://youtu.be/TJapir1Tddc
https://youtu.be/rjTQsY8rhaM
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Warning:
First two links spend a total of 37 minutes rambling on about entry level considerations for digital formats and various headphone options.
The third link is shorter but berates vinyl as too noisy and digital for having no soul, and as such neither offer a viable hi-fidelity source option.
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Warning:
First two links spend a total of 37 minutes rambling on about entry level considerations for digital formats and various headphone options.
The third link is shorter but berates vinyl as too noisy and digital for having no soul, and as such neither offer a viable hi-fidelity source option.
:thumb:
"soul"? Quasi-religious, I would say. Not good for an audio thread imo.
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I'm sure there are plenty here on AC who could come up with an amazing article or video about this subject. :thumb:
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Yes that was my intent - it would be interesting to see how people would teach others to listen properly to high quality audio.
james
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HOW TO LISTEN TO HIGH END AUDIO?
There's only one way that works for me. Eyes closed, pay attention to what you hear. That's it.
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One requires a baseline to judge reproduced music. That is live musical events. Preferably un-amplified music. Tonality, harmonics of such as a reference is crucial in evaluating an audio system. Being in a good mood is a must. Being comfortable in a chair helps as well. No Golden Ears required just your recollection of real sound in real time.
If one plays an instrument at home an easier task.
charles
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In addition to a live musical reference, one needs a recorded reference. A recording they are completely familiar with and could use to pick out differences between equipment they are auditioning.
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One requires a baseline to judge reproduced music. That is live musical events. Preferably un-amplified music. Tonality, harmonics of such as a reference is crucial in evaluating an audio system. Being in a good mood is a must. Being comfortable in a chair helps as well. No Golden Ears required just your recollection of real sound in real time.
If one plays an instrument at home an easier task.
charles
Who said anything about judging? I thought we were talking about listening.
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I'm also in the eyes closed and concentrate on what you're listening to camp. Mainly, I don't want any visual distractions while listening.
I typically listen to classical music and I listen for specific instruments as well as instrument placement, tonality and overall sound stage imaging. Does a contra bassoon or bass clarinet sound like they're supposed to sound or is it just some low freq mush? Is it easy to tell the difference between a Trombone and a French Horn when they're playing close to the same notes? Do cymbals sound like cymbals? Can you tell if what they're using to hit the cymbal? Is it a brush or a mallet or a stick? Do string basses, when plucked have appropriate decay? There a lots of things that you can listen for.
If you scrounge around on the web, you can find pdf's of Classical composition scores. That way you can see exactly what is supposed to be in the recording. Pick an instrument passage and see if you can hear it. My reference work is Telarc's recording of the Cleveland Orchestra performing "Pictures at an Exhibition". It's 30 minutes long and works all sections of the orchestra pretty hard.
Other works may have pizzicato runs starting in the lower strings and going all the way up into the violins. Do these sound even or are they softer in certain octave portions possibly due to frequency response dips?
Being an orchestral musician, music sounds very different on stage than on a recording. Occasionally, the Orchestra I'm in has donors sit on stage (distributed throughout the orchestra) during a dress rehearsal. Most of them are shocked at how different it sounds compared to sitting out in front of the orchestra in the hall.
A great performance that has been well recorded can be very enjoyable, even if it's not live and for me, that's the point of audio. To take you someplace musically that you couldn't get to otherwise.
HsvHeelFan
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Good Topic!
I didn't go to the links. From other posts, the links are crap.
First thing from prior posts.. I NEVER go to any live concerts. I despise most other Humans, and so I would really just be totally uncomfortable with the idiots who go to any Rock concert. Even the old fogies who go to the old fogies stuff like ANY of the 1970s bands still creaking up on a stage.. I am not well off enough to afford Classical concerts.. Mainly the clothing required. LOL
Jazz...no excuse other than #1.
Whew, writing that felt good.
As far as a system? ANYTHING that plays music is perfectly fine to practice listening.
This includes:
You 1966 transistor radio.
Your bedside clock radio
The cheap receiver you found at Purple Heart for $20, and the old speakers with the broken surrounds you DUCT TAPED.. This was for my friend...both parts, includes a $8 CD player!)
Why do I say this? Because the "LOVE OF MUSIC" is paramount. SO my criteria INCLUDES being able to listen to music on ANYTHING, and being happy with it.
So all those who ears bleed without a steaming pile $50,000 of crap plugged in... Sorry... REJECT..
Secondly is being able to PAY ATTENTION.
This is something that is good anywhere, anytime. For any purpose.
So if you mind is like a damn circus... Sorry, you too are a reject.
Go find out how to calm your feverish brain FIRST. Some folks use alcohol for this...
KNOW the music. Folks who only like Rock this is harder. There IS only one performance ,though live takes and the current craze for behind the scenes takes helps.
In Classical there are warhorses. folks know them inside out upside down in ten.. maybe twenty different recordings. This allows the listener to really dig deep into a performance. And I would rate long time Classical music listeners as automatically wonderful listeners..
Jazz it depends.. Kind of partway between the Rock And Classcial listener.
If you have listened to Classical a lot even is you prefer Rock, you may already also have a pass..
HAVE YOU EVER GOTTEN GOOSEBUMPS? requirement. If you have NEVER gotten goosebumps from listening to music.. Forget it. you cannot do the task.
All the rest is just going ahead and listening.
And experience. Having listened to plenty of music for many years...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
How WOULD I teach others to listen to high end audio?
Well. still the mind... Grasshopper.
If you cannot have a calm, still mind, open to the environment. It is impossible to actually LISTEN to music.
So a calm mind, open to the environment is number one.
I think one of the things which separates music lovers from folks for whom music will always be a background noise is listeners listen. Everyone else is to busy to bother to really listen, and do only that.
If one can DO the still open mind. Everything else is just experience.
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For a lot of newcomers or the younger generation that ask me this question, I tell them to go attend some live shows. Especially for students where there are tons of discounts available.
In particular, I like to suggest going to a symphony even if that's not your style of music. Get a seat up close (which a lot of people don't realize are cheaper than the prime seats). There is so much texture and depth/width to the sound, and I tell newcomers to let themselves be immersed. Try to pinpoint the location of the instruments first, then later feel how the whole sections flow. Feel the difference between how the strings and brass reach you; whether they hit you or swim around you. Feel the reverberations through the floor from the percussion to your left and the cellos/bass to your right and recognize the difference between that impact and rumble. Recognize the difference of sounds coming direct from the instruments, vs room reflections.
Etc etc.
I'm not saying that the live music is necessarily better (a lot of recorded music would not sound good live for example), but the experience of a symphony contains a lot of easily discernible elements that will help a newcomer develop better listening skills.
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I'm also in the eyes closed and concentrate on what you're listening to camp. Mainly, I don't want any visual distractions while listening.
I was going to flesh that thought out more, but you did a pretty good job.
I would add that all visual input distracts / interfers the minds ability to concentrate focus completely on the auditory input. That's why blind people have such acute hearing.
You touched on sound staging and imaging; to really appreciate these qualities you literally have to see with your ears. When the eyes are open, the mind doesn't perceive these qualities as it otherwise would.
A great performance that has been well recorded can be very enjoyable, even if it's not live, and for me, that's the point of audio. To take you someplace musically that you couldn't get to otherwise.
Couldn't have said it better. :thumb:
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HOW TO LISTEN TO HIGH END AUDIO?
There's only one way that works for me. Eyes closed, pay attention to what you hear. That's it.
I agree completely. enjoy music reproduction without getting all analytical like an audio microscope.
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Who said anything about judging? I thought we were talking about listening.
Yeah, that's what I thought too. Big difference between listening to music on good gear (this thread) vs. evaluating (shopping) for gear that you're undecided on.
Who needs to "evaluate" their own home audio system, especially if it's been there for years?
[Sorry for the multiple posts -- I've forgotten how to reply to multiples in one spread...]
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Good Topic!
I didn't go to the links. From other posts, the links are crap.
First thing from prior posts.. I NEVER go to any live concerts. I despise most other Humans, and so I would really just be totally uncomfortable with the idiots who go to any Rock concert. Even the old fogies who go to the old fogies stuff like ANY of the 1970s bands still creaking up on a stage.. I am not well off enough to afford Classical concerts.. Mainly the clothing required. LOL
Jazz...no excuse other than #1.
Whew, writing that felt good.
As far as a system? ANYTHING that plays music is perfectly fine to practice listening.
This includes:
You 1966 transistor radio.
Your bedside clock radio
KNOW the music. And I would rate long time Classical music listeners as automatically wonderful listeners..
Geez, despise humans? Wouldn't know it from your avatar.... :scratch:
I know friends who get max satisfaction out of a dime-store radio. So, it's not about the gear, it's about the music vibe penetrating deep into you.... :duh:
I agree -- classical music has so much going on in a piece, that it automatically puts your brain into a heightened state of paying attention. In a good way, not a stressful way like driving on a crowded freeway. :thumb:
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Geez, despise humans? Wouldn't know it from your avatar.... :scratch:
I should have written I despise (big) crowds of Humans..
My bad.
I have gone to small chamber music recitals and been very happy with the encounter.
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The first two videos are boring, the guy in the third one is great. I would love to see him comment on restaurants, fashion, etc. For example:
" Why 4 Star Restaurants Do Not Exist"- If you want high quality food it can only be obtained from the ground, once it is packaged and processed it becomes "nausicious" (nauseus + delicious= nausicious) I only get wild grown food from the forest and animals I shoot and eat on the camp fire within 24 hours. A 4 star restaurant does not do that so they do not exist."
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This would actually make a great survey for all of the vendors here, I would love to get the collective wisdom from the guys making this stuff with the goal of pleasing the demanding high end market.
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As for how to really listen to "high end audio"? By using active speakers of course. The music is mastered on active speakers 99% of the time so play it back on active speakers, duh!
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Good thread. I want to single out several posts in particular for kudos:
- James Tanner, for using the term "high quality" instead of "high end" (a term I despise);
- Elizabeth, for pretty much her whole post;
- Wind Chaser, for making the distinction between listening and judging. Judging is for when you're shopping, listening is for when you get it home.
I can still remember my reaction to the first good system I ever heard. It was a good 'budget'- not 'high end'- system consisting of a Dual turntable, Shure cart, low poer integrated and a pair of AR4ax speakers. All well down from the top of theirrespective lines, yet... I was completely blown away. I didn't realize music could sound like that. It still can although you need to hunt a lot harder, because the shops are almost all gone and because so many mfr's would prefer to sell 100 megabuck systems than 1000 rationally priced systems. (Less work) And if the only music you've ever listened to came out of Garbage Band or its ilk, you probably can't tell the difference anyway.
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If you want to get into Classical music, there are plenty of classical recordings on youtube. With a decent set of headphones, it's accessible. Browse conductors and compositions. If you don't like it, move on to another one.
Also check with an Orchestra near you and see what their schedule is.
Here, on dress rehearsals, if the guest artist is okay with it, we allow visitors to come in and listen for 5 bucks a head. You can wear anything. Now, since it's a dress rehearsal, we might stop and go back and work on something. Usually, we run the concert set straight through and revisit some critical sections at the end. Rehearsals here are 2 and a half hours long.
Most orchestra's will play works written in the past 300 - 350 years or so. Beethoven's middle period was from around 1803 to 1814. I generally don't listen to anything earlier than that. His 5th and 6th Symphonies are 2 of my favorites.
Check the website of an Orchestra that's located close to you and you might get lucky on seat discounts or special access during rehearsals. You should also be able to find out what the Program is for those concerts and you can preview those works on youtube if you don't want to spend the money for hard copies of the works. Most Orchestra's have support organizations that help raise money. That's another good way to support the arts.
One of the engineers I work with has gotten to his early 50's and is now interested in Classical music, so I've been sending him youtube links of a bunch of different kinds of musical works to figure out where he resides on the Classical music landscape.
As always, trust your ears and listen to what moves you
HsvHeelFan
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I was about to push back on Elizabeth's comment about needing to be familiar with classical music as being handy when it comes to really listening. Then I remembered that I love movie soundtracks and before I became any kind of audiophile I spent years listening to movie soundtracks along with other genres. And of course hearing movie scores at the theater is not un like a live classical performance in its own way. So all that makes for an interesting contribution to critical listening​.
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That's a great point about movie soundtracks.
In my book, the best classical music written in the past 50 years has been for movie soundtracks. John Williams is probably the most prolific soundtrack composer and he does borrow a lot of themes, but overall his stuff is unique enough that it doesn't bother me.
What I find fascinating is that composers can keep the James Bond theme still fresh after all these years in all of those Bond movies. It's never exactly the same, but you know it's the James Bond theme when you hear it.
HsvHeelFan
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What I find fascinating is that composers can keep the James Bond theme still fresh after all these years in all of those Bond movies. It's never exactly the same, but you know it's the James Bond theme when you hear it.
Now that you mention it I have to agree. It's always a different composition with different words, sung by a different person. And whether it's Paul McCartney singing "Live and Let Die", or Sheena Easton singing "For Your Eyes Only", the Bond brand is instantly recognizable in both themes.
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All talk of High End Audio (and 16/24 bit, MQA or you name it for that matter) pales when listening to what it's truly all about (for me) ...
Flagstad - Immolation scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYBf8z1TmSA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYBf8z1TmSA)
Flagstad - Du bist der Lenz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIo8IokM1ZE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIo8IokM1ZE)
Flagstad - Mild un Leise (Liebestod) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dfbZ6S6DU4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dfbZ6S6DU4)
Stunning and unique performances, but nowhere near Audiophile. I don't care. I'm just really really sorry I wasn't there.
The close your eyes and listen approach is a very recognizable one, but attending, seeing and living a live performance tops it all.
Prove: Waltraud Meier - Liebestod https://youtu.be/oOGs8TtnwoI (https://youtu.be/oOGs8TtnwoI) or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFUYrJEoMQU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFUYrJEoMQU)
(catching breath again)
If anything, High End Audio should be about approaching that as closely as possible. Which quite simply can't be done in ones Home anyway....
Cheers,
Marius
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Bringing me closer to my music. More emotional nuances, maybe like live perfs (not all live perfs are that great, depending on audience and room dynamics). That's what "hi-end" is about, to me.
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Now that you mention it I have to agree. It's always a different composition with different words, sung by a different person. And whether it's Paul McCartney singing "Live and Let Die", or Sheena Easton singing "For Your Eyes Only", the Bond brand is instantly recognizable in both themes.
Did you know Jimmy Page played guitar on the theme song from Goldfinger, sung by Shirley Bassey?
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Hear (pun intended) ya' go movie and music fans:
http://www.manncenter.org/events/2017-07-22/Jurassic-Park
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Hear (pun intended) ya' go movie and music fans:
http://www.manncenter.org/events/2017-07-22/Jurassic-Park-Concert
My son has tickets!
Enjoy. It's a great s-track. I have the 96/24 from PSM, and it sounds fantastic on my system.
Now if only they can get the s-t from Gladiator out on hi-res -- the CD redbook is superb already, but.....
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People make way to big a deal out of listening to music,IMHO. I listen because I enjoy music not for some life altering experience. Don't get me wrong, I really like a great sounding system but, if all I had was a lesser quality rig, I would still get enjoyment out of it because I love music.
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People make way to big a deal out of listening to music,IMHO. I listen because I enjoy music not for some life altering experience. Don't get me wrong, I really like a great sounding system but, if all I had was a lesser quality rig, I would still get enjoyment out of it because I love music.
Most musicians say the same thing... not that i agree.
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People make way to big a deal out of listening to music,IMHO. I listen because I enjoy music not for some life altering experience. Don't get me wrong, I really like a great sounding system but, if all I had was a lesser quality rig, I would still get enjoyment out of it because I love music.
That's a different subject. You'll note this thread isn't about how to listen / enjoy music, but how to listen to high end audio. We could start another thread on how to enjoy high end audio, or how to enjoy music, but that's not what this thread is about.
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Here's a different perspective on "high end" music. I haven't listened to a digital music file for weeks at home.
I posted this on Tapeheads.net this morning:
My daughter is turning 15 this month and guess what she wants for her birthday?
Yeah... a cassette walkman.
Then, she wants to give me a list of songs and wants me to make her tapes on my Nakamichi 582.
Thinking she wanted songs from my extensive vinyl collection... no, none of that old stuff. She has a list if songs in mind.
Last year her gift was a Spotify Premium account. So, I said: why don't you go into Spotify and create the playlist of your dreams (keep it below 45 minutes :nono: - I had to explain why :lol: ).
Then, I will record that onto a tape for you. Make 2 playlists and I will record both sides.
She thought that would be really cool... of course, she also has an iPhone, with the Spotify app... but never mind... she's a music lover that has seen Guardians of the Galaxy and mine is not to wonder why.
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That's a different subject. You'll note this thread isn't about how to listen / enjoy music, but how to listen to high end audio. We could start another thread on how to enjoy high end audio, or how to enjoy music, but that's not what this thread is about.
Since the only output of hi-end audio (gear) is music, then in essence, it's about listening to music/enjoying music, though hi-end gear.
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People make way to big a deal out of listening to music,IMHO. I listen because I enjoy music not for some life altering experience. Don't get me wrong, I really like a great sounding system but, if all I had was a lesser quality rig, I would still get enjoyment out of it because I love music.
Replace 'listening to music' with hobby 'X' and the same can be said for any of them.
That's why it's a hobby.
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Since the only output of hi-end audio (gear) is music, then in essence, it's about listening to music/enjoying music, though hi-end gear.
Sure, all these things are related, but a definite distinction can be made between them. Anyone who enjoys music may not necessarily do so when it comes to high end audio, because many of us get caught up into listening to the gear instead of the music. That's audiophiles for you! :wink:
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Sure, all these things are related, but a definite distinction can be made between them. Anyone who enjoys music may not necessarily do so when it comes to high end audio, because many of us get caught up into listening to the gear instead of the music. That's audiophiles for you! :wink:
That may be true, the obsession with gear (it's called audiophilia nervosa, sometimes incurable). But I dare anyone to explain to my satisfaction how one can "listen to gear" without hearing the music. To any extent.
:roll:
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That may be true, the obsession with gear (it's called audiophilia nervosa, sometimes incurable). But I dare anyone to explain to my satisfaction how one can "listen to gear" without hearing the music. To any extent.
:roll:
Obviously, one can't listen to gear without music. :duh:
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Once upon a time...Train engines, ocean waves, birds chirping, Traffic noise,
or the direction of the subway travel was Listened to, in an attempt to gauge
the fidelity of the system. Just sayin'
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I also listen for details in the music. In rock and roll are there quiet extra bits running around that you can hear on this system (Pink Floyd/Alan Parsons Project/ELO are good artists for this) but not on a lesser quality audio system?
With classical music, I listen for inner accompaniment voices like 2nd violin or viola parts, 2nd clarinet/2nd flutes. Any inner voices in a symphony or chamber music work that you KNOW well, will do.
HsvHeelFan
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For me it is all about goosebumps and master tape epiphanies.
For years it was "this is sounding good!... How do I make it better?"
Thanks to James Tanner et al at Bryston and their beautiful bad ass 28's, (and some other wunderbar gear), I'm not chasing the rainbow anymore.
So now I chase Mint- vinyl and look forward to my weekend listening sessions with 12 year old single malt scotch or local craft beer. And sometimes I get together with a friend who has to settle for VAC amplification. ;-)
I do enjoy outings to the symphony. Not much of a dress code these days although season openers can get toney. Our symphony sells Rush tickets on Thursdays for $10-15 and some of those seats are A-1. Center stage 8-12 rows will blow your hair back if Mahler or some of the more robust romantics are being played.
And after this experience you will know no effort to build a stupendous super-duper record playing (or digital) system will come close to reproducing the event. It's a ridiculous proposition!
[ However, Brian Cheney RIP, founder/owner of VMPS Speakers, did some remarkable small ensemble live vs recorded demonstrations several years running at one of the major west coast shows. His speakers ignite energy like no other. Proud owner of RM30 Series2]
I like to listen to music. Ever since that first 9-transistor radio in 1965. It can be a time machine to old times with good friends to simply wondering how this mix of wires and stuff can sound so good.
Nuff sed from me.
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HOW TO LISTEN TO HIGH END AUDIO?
There's only one way that works for me. Eyes closed, pay attention to what you hear. That's it.
Plus a cocktail or a decent wine; and maybe a cigar or for me a well-loaded briar pipe and some smooth English tobacco with Latakia.
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....or for me a well-loaded briar pipe and some smooth English tobacco with Latakia.
Latakia.
Are you Syrian by chance?
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Plus a cocktail or a decent wine; and maybe a cigar or for me a well-loaded briar pipe and some smooth English tobacco with Latakia.
I like your style!
For me some great Bourbon with some music I enjoy and I'm in it.. I used to smoke but gave up cigarettes when I was seven. I do miss that briar pipe with a good Cavendish though.
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For me the best mode for listening is cognac or red wine, feet up sitting in the sweet spot and letting my mind travel to where ever the tunes takes me........... :wine: :thumb:
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I like your style!
For me some great Bourbon with some music I enjoy and I'm in it.. I used to smoke but gave up cigarettes when I was seven. I do miss that briar pipe with a good Cavendish though.
Seven ! lol...for me I gave up during grade 3 because my wife didn't like it.... :lol:
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Cognac:
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Seven ! lol...for me I gave up during grade 3 because my wife didn't like it.... :lol:
Well, I didn't to bring up my second wife that left me when I was nine.... I took it pretty hard!
On the other hand she still is my sister..
Cognac!
+1!
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Well, I didn't to bring up my second wife that left me when I was nine.... I took it pretty hard!
On the other hand she still is my sister.. Oh, sorry to hear that...must have been a difficult time for you :( :(
Cognac!
+1!
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:thumb: :icon_lol:
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For me, it's bourbon all the way. I currently have bottles of Woodford Reserve, Michter's Small Batch and Wild Turkey Diamond anniversary open.
HsvHeelFan
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Sounds good , be right over ...have records and my own glass.... :dance:
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For me it was progressive learning. I started home audio around the year 2000. Before that I mainly listened to car audio while driving taxi for many years.
Not my initial set up but near the beginning I was disappointed that I couldn't get that edge sound to Ritchie Blackmore's guitar. So I looked for a speaker that had that sound and settled on bookshelves that had a metal tweeter as opposed to soft dome tweeter. That speaker crapped out because the vibrations caused the wiring in the speaker to touch, shorting out.
It was around that time my then girlfriend had bought a cheap surround sound system which sounded better than my more expensive stereo. So that's when I shifted to surround sound. I could never get stereo to image properly anyway so surround sound was the solution to immersive sound which is what I like.
So like I'm always analyzing the sound while enjoying the music. Mainly to determine where the weak link is in the stereo chain an upgrading that component to where I am now.
I think the #1 thing I listen for is transparency and I believe I have achieved that with my mostly all Bryston gear. I can't determine any weakness to sound so I guess I'm finally done upgrading after spending many thousands of dollars. :smoke:
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Seriously now...sorry about those silly jokes...I began my audio journey in 1967. I took a favorite LP (Simon and Garfunkel's Sounds of Silence) to this new and strange store in town . They sold some fine looking sound gear . They had a 35 watt "Sansui" receiver hooked up to a pair of Fisher bookshelf speakers with a Dual turntable . I was awed and amazed as to how good that record sounded ! I had played it numerous time at home on my simple record player and after hearing it on this very fancy system I have never "looked" back. Only now , with my Bryston gear, is my quest near completion. :thumb:
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And then you will have achieved total consciousness...
You have that going for you
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:thumb: I sure hope so..... :lol:
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Key word is not how, its LISTEN...One just has to take the time to really LISTEN and be involved with the sound of the music.
Some people become audiophiles because they just want to own expensive 50k and over gear just so they can show them off to others and brag about it....While others dont put any real emphasis on the cost of the gear but more on whats pleasing to there own ears for there own enjoyment.
If that gear that I chose regardless of price makes me edgy/restless and or fatigued over prolonged periods of listening time then that is not the right gear for me.
The right gear for me to LISTEN to is the one that makes me feel calmed and relaxed...IMO Sound is very emotional as the vibration tone frequencies can affect ones emotional state.
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~HAVE YOU EVER GOTTEN GOOSEBUMPS? requirement. If you have NEVER gotten goosebumps from listening to music.. Forget it. you cannot do the task.~
Once again, Elizabeth's enduring clarity is always most appreciated and be savoured as a fine delicacy :thumb:
Be well...
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I don't think there are absolutes in audio, only preferences. If there was one right way everyone would just do the same thing.