Bryston Loudspeakers

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mrhyfy

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #160 on: 20 Aug 2011, 08:13 pm »
James,,,will you be running any consumer focus group testing at Bryston headquarters??

Habs Fan

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #161 on: 20 Aug 2011, 09:10 pm »
It is typically not possible to combine high efficiency (especially at low frequencies) with compact enclosure size and adequate low frequency response
 
Yes according to Hoffman's Iron law but by doubling up on woofers voltage sensitivity is increased by 6 db,volume displacement effectively doubles and excursion required by each woofer is reduced to have the amount needed by a single driver for the same SPL.Add to this the fact that they are actively crossed over so there are no large power robbing inductors in series with the woofers so none of that voltage sensitivity is lost in the DCR resistance of the passive crossover.

Sasha

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #162 on: 21 Aug 2011, 12:02 am »
  Personally , I think off axis response is way over rated. Us audiophiles usually listen alone and so are always in the sweet spot.
If off axis response is not uniform (the emphasis is on uniform) speakers cannot sound good under any circumstances, in any room and any position, other that anechoic chamber.
The fact that someone may sit in sweet spot (precisely on axis) is irrelevant, sound will be messed up in any place in the room. Getting speakers to measure good on axis is the easiest thing in design and execution, doing so off axis and getting controlled and uniform off axis response (power response), especially in cross-over regions, is what makes good speakers, and that is very hard.
That is one of reasons why the vast majority of speakers sound like crap.

VOLKS

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #163 on: 21 Aug 2011, 02:00 am »
Hi -they are not Active M80's - they are a complete redesign from the ground up - much bigger box - acoustic suspension etc.

james


Wonderful....so do you have any specs yet?

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #164 on: 21 Aug 2011, 12:07 pm »

Wonderful....so do you have any specs yet?

Hi Volks,

Nothing in stone yet but it looks like we can get a good 17Hz to 24kHz within a DB or so and very very low distortion.

james


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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #165 on: 21 Aug 2011, 12:14 pm »
The are a lot of theories about polar response and speaker design but the main concern is always the speaker/room interface.  It has to be considered in totality when evaluating a specific speaker in a specific room. When a speaker has a very ‘wide’ and ‘even’ polar (frequency) response ‘on and off’ axis there is a lot of reflected sound information bouncing back from the ceiling, floor and side walls.  The theory is that the smoother the off axis response of the speaker the better the tonal balance between the direct sound and the reflected sound will be. In other words, the reflected sound will have the same overall tonal balance and sonic characteristics as the direct sound if ‘on and off’ polar response is smooth and even. Most designers feel this approach also provides the best overall three dimensional soundstage as well. Some obviously disagree and feel a beamed or directed sound at the listening position is the better approach because the room interaction is less of an issue as long as you are in the sweet spot (ex Roger Sanders Electrostatic Speakers). Sort of like big headphones.

Recognize though that when you’re listening to a speaker in a room you are always listening to a balance between the ‘Direct Sound’ and the ‘Reflected Sound’ from the boundaries of the room – this is called ‘POWER RESPONSE.’ It is that balance between direct and reflected that changes depending on the frequency radiation pattern (polar response) of the speaker.

For me I prefer the wide even polar response concept as it seems to provided me with the widest deepest soundstage of all the designs I have tried so far. To each his own :thumb:

james

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #166 on: 21 Aug 2011, 05:28 pm »
Nothing in stone yet but it looks like we can get a good 17Hz to 24kHz within a DB or so and very very low distortion.
james

James : There are some pretty clever and successful speaker designers who maintain that sealed-cabinet design and "very very low distortion" are mutually-exclusive terms due to the additional work load which that design places upon the drivers especially as the volume goes up. You stated earlier that these speakers incorporate a sealed-cabinet design so how have you managed to get around that issue?

D.D.

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #167 on: 21 Aug 2011, 05:30 pm »
James : There are some pretty clever and successful speaker designers who maintain that sealed-cabinet design and "very very low distortion" are mutually-exclusive terms due to the additional work load which that design places upon the drivers especially as the volume goes up. You stated earlier that these speakers incorporate a sealed-cabinet design so how have you managed to get around that issue?

D.D.

Great low distortion drivers :thumb:

VOLKS

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #168 on: 21 Aug 2011, 06:52 pm »
Hi Volks,

Nothing in stone yet but it looks like we can get a good 17Hz to 24kHz within a DB or so and very very low distortion.

james


Very good specs.!

amblin

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #169 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:11 pm »

Very good specs.!

Yeah, that's almost the spec of PMC's towering BB5XBD-A with twin 15" LF units /each channel and a BIG cabinet full of Bryston 7B,4B and crossovers, and i always thought that's simply not possible on smaller diameter LF units and especially sealed cabinets.....

i was lucky enough to demo the hundred thousand dollar setup and it... was.. soul.... enlightening..i even had an epiphany---- I need a better paid job.  :duh: or rob an armed bank escort

mrhyfy

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #170 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:14 pm »
James,,any thought of dsp room correction,,,perhaps in the Mark II version??

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #171 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:16 pm »
James,,any thought of dsp room correction,,,perhaps in the Mark II version??

No way  - hate room correction and so does the speaker designer I am working with - screws everything up. :duh:

james

Sasha

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #172 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:19 pm »
No way  - hate room correction and so does the speaker designer I am working with - screws everything up. :duh:

james

That was my experience as well, the end result is terrible sound, but I wonder why, what gets screwed up in the process?

mrhyfy

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #173 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:22 pm »
Perhaps it can be done,,delicately and gently??

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #174 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:32 pm »
Yeah, that's almost the spec of PMC's towering BB5XBD-A with twin 15" LF units /each channel and a BIG cabinet full of Bryston 7B,4B and crossovers, and i always thought that's simply not possible on smaller diameter LF units and especially sealed cabinets.....

i was lucky enough to demo the hundred thousand dollar setup and it... was.. soul.... enlightening..i even had an epiphany---- I need a better paid job.  :duh: or rob an armed bank escort

Yes the BB5 system is superb - I had them for a while a few years ago.  The JT-1's would not be able to play at the levels they could.

james

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #175 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:54 pm »
That was my experience as well, the end result is terrible sound, but I wonder why, what gets screwed up in the process?


Active room control, flatly stated, does not work. Never did..never will. Simple rules of physics vs the human hearing function. The very idea and execution...basically...retards the reproduced sound that emanates from the speakers in such a way that it bears little resemblance to what was recorded on the disk.  The room must fundamentally be corrected via acoustic treatment FIRST....and then MAYBE some small amount of active control may, I repeat -may be utilized.

The source of the problem is that the reflective time smear characteristics of the room 'issues' remains intact, and the direct radiator sound source is being retarded to compensate for this. Thus the result is a time smeared mess where the issues remain, and the original source is destroyed.

james

amblin

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #176 on: 21 Aug 2011, 07:58 pm »
....room correction,,,perhaps in the Mark II version??

You mean those knobs on the back of some speakers?  Or the funny external resistors such as those on Gryphon's Mojo?

In my opinion,  they are a pointless and over complicated way of spoiling an otherwise rather interesting and enjoyable experience ... :green: those knobs and resistors, they are deceiving little buggers that makes you belive that the impossible can be done and the sound is always not 'perfect enough' unless you turn the knobs abit.
----
EDIT:
I played with a friend's 'room correction processor' not long ago, it's from a very famous brand, and it's not cheap. Basically it's a thing you put between the signal source and your amps and stays there so you cant borrow it from your friend.

  After the test, i must say it works (although not much), but, with the money for that 'processor', i can hugely improve my room acoustics,replace the rolls of bubble wrap with something more refined,  cure the original cause of the problem and easily surpass the 'improvements' offered by that machine.

Habs Fan

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #177 on: 21 Aug 2011, 08:31 pm »
James : There are some pretty clever and successful speaker designers who maintain that sealed-cabinet design and "very very low distortion" are mutually-exclusive terms due to the additional work load which that design places upon the drivers especially as the volume goes up. You stated earlier that these speakers incorporate a sealed-cabinet design so how have you managed to get around that issue?

D.D.
There are also many a sucessful designer that will claim superiority for the sealed alignment vs ported in such areas as  improved transient response(lower group delay) resulting in tighter more detailed bass.Using multiple drivers with long excursion low distortion motors will go a long way towards ameliorating excursion related distortion.

1oldguy

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #178 on: 22 Aug 2011, 01:16 am »
Now this is interesting.

I didn't know this concept was already done and using a Bryston crossover no less.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/697waveform/index.html