TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps

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matt_garman

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1020 on: 17 Aug 2014, 10:09 pm »
I decided I liked the sound of one of my modded YJ Blue/Black boards enough to put it in a permanent housing. My decision was the smallest possible box I could stuff it into. The Sure Amp box from PE was the ticket! The fit is extremely tight, and required a little surgery to the box for the switch and power input jack. The footprint of this finished amp is smaller than a dollar bill!

Nice work lacro!

I used the next-larger Sure case from Parts Express for my 3110 build (my first 311x build).  Larger case and smaller PCB, so an easier fit overall.  Those are pretty nice cases, especially for the price, but my main complaint is that the main body isn't split.

How did you mount the PCB to the chassis?  In my case, I fixed the standoffs to the PCB, and then line those up with the holes in the chassis.  Works fine, just not as convenient as having a removable top.  But on the other hand, it saves having to drill all the binding post  and RCA holes.

My other annoyance with those cases is the square cutout for the power receptacle.  Mine just has wires hanging out the back.  :)  Not nearly as clean as your solution.







lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1021 on: 18 Aug 2014, 12:11 am »
Nice work lacro!

I used the next-larger Sure case from Parts Express for my 3110 build (my first 311x build).  Larger case and smaller PCB, so an easier fit overall.  Those are pretty nice cases, especially for the price, but my main complaint is that the main body isn't split.

How did you mount the PCB to the chassis?  In my case, I fixed the standoffs to the PCB, and then line those up with the holes in the chassis.  Works fine, just not as convenient as having a removable top.  But on the other hand, it saves having to drill all the binding post  and RCA holes.

My other annoyance with those cases is the square cutout for the power receptacle.  Mine just has wires hanging out the back.  :)  Not nearly as clean as your solution.


Thanks Matt!
 The Sure cases are pretty well made. I agree the split cases like Rhing uses are good choice, I bought a couple of the Sure cases from PE when I was ordering other stuff. I was intending to mount 3110 amps in them, but the challenge of fitting the larger amp got the best me :nono: I almost gave up a couple times.....

 I too fixed stand-offs (nylon) to the board, but they were too long, even though they were only 1/4" long, so I sanded them a little shorter so the Big Wima caps would clear the top. I drilled holes in the bottom to match the stand offs, and fixed them with nylon machine screws.

 Mounting the DC jack was pretty easy by attaching a small sheet of carbon fiber with screws over the square hole on the inside. The switch mounting required counter boring a hole on the back side of the front panel for the switch to recess into because the front panel was too thick for the switch I had.

 The board fits inside the chassis with no side clearance, and only a total of 1/2" in length in which all   the connectors, the pot, and the switch must fit. It was a real challenge :scratch: However, it was a fun project that looks and pretty darn good, and sounds awesome!

 I probably won't do any more mods to this one except maybe try the boostrap snubber mod if there is enough room left under the board. I have two other blue/black boards to play with as my soldering/de-soldering skills keep improving.
 

Lauris

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1022 on: 18 Aug 2014, 04:53 pm »
Good day, honourable  experts.
After a long and useless search for my answer, I turn to you.
Is it possible to revive a TPA3116 2.1 amp made by Yuan Jing, if the power leads from battery were connected in reverse?
Or should I just order a new amp?
Cheers.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1023 on: 20 Aug 2014, 06:13 pm »
Not an expert myself, but since nobody else is wading in, I'll offer my opinion, which someone may then contradict.

I would expect that the parts most likely to be damaged by this are the chips and the electrolytic capacitors. I would replace the electrolytic caps, then connect the board up for test with an old set of speakers (or drivers) that you are willing to sacrifice. You can probably test bass channel separately without any harm. If it works, pat yourself on the back. If it doesn't then the chips have departed this world to dwell with their ancestors in silicon heaven. If you don't have disposable speakers then just buy a new board.

If you have a low voltage PSU (5v; 9v) then you could perhaps use this for the test.

My best guess at this....  :?

Folsom

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1024 on: 20 Aug 2014, 08:51 pm »
It's true, capacitors blow up when they're applied a reverse polarity and they aren't bi-polar. POP, yes they can make that sound.

The chip? Well... there's a lot of tiny little switches in it and ya, they could be damaged.

The inductors and all SMD/film caps shouldn't be harmed at all.


dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1025 on: 21 Aug 2014, 12:49 pm »
The tpa3116d2 chip seems to have lots of protections according to the datasheet, but I did not see reverse polarity listed as one of them. Lauris, please let us know how you get on, just to satisfy curiosity.

Lauris

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1026 on: 21 Aug 2014, 06:11 pm »
You were right about the chip. At least it seams so.
I replaced 3 smaller caps with no luck. The board wouldn't even power up. Just blinking led and the same on the powersupply.
Well, the stupid ones pay double the price.
Just ordered a new board.
Whats  interesting is that theres no visual clues of something being blown. All the caps seem intact as well as smd. Must be the chip then. I own a smaller brother of this board= tpa3110 and it has a reverse polarity protection, which i tried. Nothing bad happened to the board.
Thanks for your input, diyers.
Much appreciated.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1027 on: 21 Aug 2014, 08:19 pm »
As Rhing said a bit ago, the beauty of these boards is they cost so little that you can afford to experiment / mess up occasionally and it doesn't break the bank. Everyone makes mistakes occasionally. Even me.  :icon_lol:

Lauris

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1028 on: 21 Aug 2014, 08:28 pm »
Yeah, and its very addictive. I want to buy more and more of them and fit them in everywhere, make boomboxes etc.
Went to antiques store the other day and every single box i saw was a case for an amplifier.

rhing

Not Cheap, But Very Cheerful
« Reply #1029 on: 22 Aug 2014, 06:00 am »
I followed dboy's lead and installed a pair of CineMag CMLI-15/15B input transformers on my modified Yuan Jing blue amp. This has to be the ultimate mod for these amps. The soundstage is huge and the tonality is so natural. I wouldn't recommend this for a desktop computer system, but if you use these TI Class D amps in your main system, this should be a serious consideration.



dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1030 on: 22 Aug 2014, 11:42 am »
Fantastic Rhing. Very glad you like this, although Sharpi31 on Diyaudio deserves the credit as first here, not me.

If I remember correctly from several years ago when I first installed transformers in my dac, they took quite a while to reach their best performance. So you may have further treats to look forward to (although different transformers so no guarantee).

Your results mirror mine - the size of the soundstage was the thing that really hit me at first. Then the sense of intimacy with appropriate recordings.

Are you still using your line stage as well or have you removed that from the equation now? I was a little unclear when you wrote about your intention here a few days ago.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1031 on: 22 Aug 2014, 12:04 pm »
Rhing, another question if I may. Do you have any hum coming through the speakers if there is no component turned on connected to the transformer primaries. I found I got a hum if my dac was off but the amp turned on. I avoid that happening now by having the power transformers for both in the same box, fed by the same power inlet. But I am curious whether this happens for you too.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1032 on: 22 Aug 2014, 05:23 pm »
I have been listening to my original 2x8 W TPA 3110 modded board for a week now. It's one of my original TPA's I started with a year ago. It's the first time I tried it with my Astron SL-11A plus my YJ 3 tube preamp and it sounds absolutely astonishing! I have ALWAYS felt the TPA 3116 doesn't have anything over the 2X8 W TPA3110, and I still feel this way!

Update: I just received a parts order from Digi-Key, which included 2 Panny FM's to replace some caps in my Astron PS. I had no idea they would improve the SQ of this already great sounding PS. The best $2 spent on this hobby! Most of these Astron's we are finding used are somewhat 'vintage' and replacing a couple of caps with new/better ones is worth doing. Thanks - Rhing!

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1033 on: 23 Aug 2014, 01:32 am »
Rhing, another question if I may. Do you have any hum coming through the speakers if there is no component turned on connected to the transformer primaries. I found I got a hum if my dac was off but the amp turned on. I avoid that happening now by having the power transformers for both in the same box, fed by the same power inlet. But I am curious whether this happens for you too.

I have not heard any hum issues since I've connected the input transformers in my YJ blue amp. I always have everything connected before I power up equipment. First I start with source equipment and work my way to the power amp. When powering off, I work in reverse order starting with the power amplifier and work my way backwards through the chain to the source equipment. I learned this working with pro audio systems where you could easily blow out speakers and amps. A sound systems consultant who used to be the concert sound engineer for Van Halen taught me this simple rule.

This guy had golden ears too. I had never seen anyone EQ a room with a complex dBX room correction system by ear before. He opened my eyes to Allen & Heath mixers and Lab Gruppen Class D pro audio amps--high end pro audio gear. That's why I'm stuck on Class D amps and using balanced inputs now.

Fantastic Rhing. Very glad you like this, although Sharpi31 on Diyaudio deserves the credit as first here, not me.

If I remember correctly from several years ago when I first installed transformers in my dac, they took quite a while to reach their best performance. So you may have further treats to look forward to (although different transformers so no guarantee).

Your results mirror mine - the size of the soundstage was the thing that really hit me at first. Then the sense of intimacy with appropriate recordings.

Are you still using your line stage as well or have you removed that from the equation now? I was a little unclear when you wrote about your intention here a few days ago.

The soundstage with the input transformers is incredible, but it's also the transparency of the amp that impresses me too. I hear more music; it actually sounds like it's playing louder, but not in any obnoxious way. It also seems like the dynamic range has increased like there is no ceiling to transients, especially loud events like thwacks on drums.

I am still using my Audio Research LS7 tube line stage preamp along with my Audio Research PH5 tube phono stage. With tubes up front, I get more of that holographic magic that tubes can produce.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1034 on: 23 Aug 2014, 12:28 pm »
Great stuff! It sounds like your blue/black board is finally ready to go into a cool enclosure. There cannot be much more improving to be done.

... Oh wait, what was that about a snubber thingummy?  :wink:

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1035 on: 23 Aug 2014, 02:22 pm »
Great stuff! It sounds like your blue/black board is finally ready to go into a cool enclosure. There cannot be much more improving to be done.

... Oh wait, what was that about a snubber thingummy?  :wink:

Yes, the bootstrap snubber mod. I have small caps and resistors to do this mod, but wanted to try the CineMags first. At this point, I am not sure I'm going to do this since I have a couple amplifiers that have the bootstrap snubber already in place: the Sure TPA3116 (on underside of amp board) and the SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118 (next to bootstrap caps on top of board), and the YJ blue amp sounds better than both. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? :nono:

I'm still trying to decide on an enclosure for this amp. I really like colorful stomp boxes using Hammond die cast Aluminum enclosures, but I also like black enclosures with thick, brushed Aluminum faceplates. I still have a brand new HiFi 2000 Galaxy Maggiorato 230mm x 170mm enclosure with a 10mm thick face plate. I used one of these for an earlier modded YJ blue amp build, which I sold to a friend who shoved aside his 300B SET monoblocks in favor of the TPA3116 amp.



Update: I just received a parts order from Digi-Key, which included 2 Panny FM's to replace some caps in my Astron PS. I had no idea they would improve the SQ of this already great sounding PS. The best $2 spent on this hobby! Most of these Astron's we are finding used are somewhat 'vintage' and replacing a couple of caps with new/better ones is worth doing. Thanks - Rhing!

That's great lacro. You're welcome. Maybe we'll have to revisit that larger blue tank cap in there too. Getting a good regulated linear power supply is probably the single most important mod for these TPA31xx Class D amps. They are 90% efficient, so the power supply path is just as important as the signal path. After that, using good wire for a DC power cable, good power connectors and a quality power switch are next. Of course, using good power supply DC decoupling caps on the amp board are critical. So far, many of us have found the Panasonic SEPF OSCONs to work very well. If you stopped there, you've achieved high end audio results.

OzarkTom

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1036 on: 23 Aug 2014, 03:16 pm »
After that, using good wire for a DC power cable, good power connectors and a quality power switch are next. Of course, using good power supply DC decoupling caps on the amp board are critical. So far, many of us have found the Panasonic SEPF OSCONs to work very well. If you stopped there, you've achieved high end audio results.

That Reality Cable power cord is an unbelievable improvement. That improves the sound as much as the Astron Power Supply made in my system. I would never have had to believe it if I had never heard it.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1037 on: 23 Aug 2014, 07:13 pm »
That's great lacro. You're welcome. Maybe we'll have to revisit that larger blue tank cap in there too. Getting a good regulated linear power supply is probably the single most important mod for these TPA31xx Class D amps. They are 90% efficient, so the power supply path is just as important as the signal path. After that, using good wire for a DC power cable, good power connectors and a quality power switch are next. Of course, using good power supply DC decoupling caps on the amp board are critical. So far, many of us have found the Panasonic SEPF OSCONs to work very well. If you stopped there, you've achieved high end audio results.

Rhing:

I am ready to revisit the big blue cap if you have a suggestion? I agree the Oscons are hot ticket so far for the DC decoupling caps. I have tried them on 3 different boards so far with positive results :thumb:
Just today I stripped everything I could from a 2x8 3110 board I had modded many times resulting in burning out some through holes.

 I want to mount this board in a tiny box. I installed the Oscon caps on the underside of the board, and ran the leads through the burned out through holes onto the pads on top. The power input through holes were also burned out so I had to find an alternative.

 The rats nest wiring shown in the photos is just me making sure it's worth proceeding with my mini box idea. Surprisingly it work fine. The Oscons take about an hour to burn in and start sounding GREAT.
I am enjoying listening right now, driving my Danny Richie design DIY X-LS Encores.

Tempoary wiring to make sure it still functions


Everything removed from top of board


Oscons, and wiring on board bottom



rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1038 on: 23 Aug 2014, 10:31 pm »
Rhing:

I am ready to revisit the big blue cap if you have a suggestion? I agree the Oscons are hot ticket so far for the DC decoupling caps. I have tried them on 3 different boards so far with positive results :thumb:
Just today I stripped everything I could from a 2x8 3110 board I had modded many times resulting in burning out some through holes.

 I want to mount this board in a tiny box. I installed the Oscon caps on the underside of the board, and ran the leads through the burned out through holes onto the pads on top. The power input through holes were also burned out so I had to find an alternative.

 The rats nest wiring shown in the photos is just me making sure it's worth proceeding with my mini box idea. Surprisingly it work fine. The Oscons take about an hour to burn in and start sounding GREAT.
I am enjoying listening right now, driving my Danny Richie design DIY X-LS Encores.

You'll need to remind me of the cap dimensions including lead spacing and capacitance. Mouser carries a nice range of large capacitors like Nichicon KG Gold Tune and Kemet PHE200 low ESR capacitors.

I'm still playing around with the Sure TPA3116 amp where I installed the six 330uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON caps. This amp sounds really nice. I still prefer the YJ with the newly added CineMag transformers, but I wonder how those transformers would sound with the Sure TPA3116 and my output filter-less Sure TPA3110 amps. There is so much more tinkering to do.

Folsom

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1039 on: 23 Aug 2014, 11:25 pm »
I just threw on some BG N 4.7uf caps for my inputs. Huge upgrade. But I'm still on the Red board :rotflmao: . I'm probably going to be amazed when I upgrade to a better board with rhing's mods.

Just a little advice.... When you go to replace SMD caps don't bother trying to safetly remove them. Just use the little green handled dikes to snip them in two, wet the solder with some lead solder, and swipe off the remains. It's way easier than playing with crappy solder. You can dual wield soldering irons if you wish...

This might be a way to make any of the Sure boards better. But without BG N's... Well you can do the trick with two Nichicon ES caps per input cap, and use singles on the ground caps. It'd be tight, real tight.

Funny, I have some Encores as well (upgraded), but I can't imagine them playing loud enough with the 3110.

I wish they still made BG's....  :icon_twisted: