small room acoustic vs bigger speakers

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 7174 times.

mav52

Re: small room acoustic vs bigger speakers
« Reply #20 on: 27 Oct 2014, 01:18 pm »
Well, my office which is under construction as I write this, well is 10.5x10.5x 10, but with a 5 foot opening at one end that comes into a large den.     A cube or a box better describes it.   The worst of the worst and possibly the hardest to control acoustic wise.   

optimationman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: small room acoustic vs bigger speakers
« Reply #21 on: 29 Oct 2014, 02:54 am »
While the 1st order crossover allow for an integrated cross point for two speakers, it also allow both to be playing the same note(freqs).  I think that since the speakers are not time phase aligned you would hear two different sounds if you were to close or to far from the point where the two signals meet the ear at the same time.  Just a thought.  This would not be the case if only one speaker was playing the note via a higher order crossover design.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10661
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: small room acoustic vs bigger speakers
« Reply #22 on: 29 Oct 2014, 08:59 am »
As a single driver fan, I'm not much of a crossover expert, but any crossover plays both drivers at or near the crossover frequency to maintain a flat frequency response.  It's just a wider band of frequencies with lower order crossovers that have a slower slope and so a greater frequency range of overlap between drivers.  Yes, you'll hear sound from two different locations, but I believe it's the phasing between drivers that is critical (many crossovers put the driver out of phase with each other).  And any time you have two drivers playing at the same frequency you'll have comb effect (interference between two sound sources).  Time alignment refers to physical (typically vertical) offset between driver acoustic centers (usually taken as center of voice coil).  Note that two drivers can only be time aligned in one axis, the vertical axis allows for better horizontal imaging.  Comb/alignment effects will vary with listener location and frequency.  Note also that coaxial drivers take care of comb and time alignment issues.

As non-perfect transducers each driver will sound different (even matching ones on "2.5" designs), but most certainly between cone woofers and ribbon tweeters for example.  A few speaker manufacturers use very high order, very sophisticated crossover designs to try to eliminate this phenominom but then must battle against the sound suddenly jumping between drivers as frequency slowly increases/decreases.  One advantage of higher order crossovers is that the drivers only have to perform within a smaller frequency range.  As a point of interest studio monitors (near-field, critical working speakers) typically use 4th order crossovers.

Note that single driver designs resolve all of these concerns.

BobRex

Re: small room acoustic vs bigger speakers
« Reply #23 on: 29 Oct 2014, 01:18 pm »
  Note also that coaxial drivers take care of comb and time alignment issues.

I'm not so sure about that.  Many (I want to say majority, but I haven't looked at the entire field) coaxials place the tweeter in front of the woofer/mid voice coil.  To be time aligned, the voice coils of both drivers need to be on the same plane, including front-to-back.
Yes, a coaxial can be better than individual drivers in the X and Y axis, but the individual drivers can can be made to perform better in the Z axis (think Vandersteen).  Then it will still depend upon the crossover.  Too complex a crossover will introduce additional time constants / delays that will make it impossible to align the drivers.  So coaxial by itself is not the panacea.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10661
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: small room acoustic vs bigger speakers
« Reply #24 on: 30 Oct 2014, 09:39 am »
I'm not so sure about that.  Many (I want to say majority, but I haven't looked at the entire field) coaxials place the tweeter in front of the woofer/mid voice coil.  To be time aligned, the voice coils of both drivers need to be on the same plane, including front-to-back.
Yes, a coaxial can be better than individual drivers in the X and Y axis, but the individual drivers can can be made to perform better in the Z axis (think Vandersteen).  Then it will still depend upon the crossover.  Too complex a crossover will introduce additional time constants / delays that will make it impossible to align the drivers.  So coaxial by itself is not the panacea.

Upon reflection I agree with you observations, but coaxial can align the Z axis too (as some of the more thoughtful designs that I was thinking of do).