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Industry Circles => Mivera Audio => Topic started by: bavmike on 7 Nov 2017, 11:48 pm

Title: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Nov 2017, 11:48 pm
Hi guys,

It's Mike from Mivera Audio. I just got my hands on the brand new Icepower 1200as 1200wpc stereo amp. It's the best I've heard yet in class D and I've built them all as many already know. It's the first Icepower amp yet that uses the new SOTA Iceedge engine:

https://icepower.dk/download/1621/

This is not your grampa's Icepower. Leaps and bounds above anything else they ever built.

 My business has transitioned to OEM work only recently. However I'm so impressed with this amp it inspired me to think out of the box on how I can get these amps into peoples hands without much time and effort on my part. So I thought why not a group buy kit? I could offer complete turn key easy to assemble kits with all parts required. All holes pre-drilled. Since this amp has all parts on a single board, it's very easy to work with. Much easier than assembling an NC-400 kit.

For cases I could use the very nice Takachi cases from Japan. Here's an example of how they look:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171003)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171013)


Pricing for the amps will be $900 each in silver, and $940 each in black. But in order to pull this off at this pricing, I'll need to secure lots of 20 units at a time. And once 20 people commit to buy, it will be about a month turnaround.

Let me know what you guys think.


Update! Now only available as a turnkey built amp

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop



Here’s the 1200as beside the Hypex NC502MP.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171006)

And a few pics showing the nice build quality with Japanese Nippon chemi-con and German Wima caps.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171007)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171008)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171009)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171010)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171011)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171012)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never hear before
Post by: mresseguie on 8 Nov 2017, 12:00 am
Before I jump in, how many watts/ch into 8 ohms will this be?

I should probably have my head examined, but I'll commit to buying one so long as I'm getting a decent amount of power. 

Michael
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never hear before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:10 am
Here's the main specs in the last row. Man if this amp isn't powerful enough for you, you have some very inefficient speakers! And note that the minimum impedance is referring to minimum nominal impedance.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171015)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:28 am
And if I get 20 orders I'll become a level 2 supporter of Audiocircle. And in the future I may even offer more great SOTA kits. We will see how this goes for now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 8 Nov 2017, 12:29 am
Oooh, lots of power.  How does it behave with higher impedance loads (15-16 ohms)?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:34 am
I'm not sure. Probably fine. Similar to the older Icepower's I'm sure.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 8 Nov 2017, 12:37 am
I'll commit to buying a kit. Does it require any soldering or is it pretty much bolt on and screw in and assemble carefully?

I am curious what you used these amps on (speakers) and any comparisons to other Icepower or Class D amps.

Thanks!

-dave
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: timind on 8 Nov 2017, 12:42 am
To be clear, what exactly will a buyer get in the kit?

I'd need to know this before committing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: santacore on 8 Nov 2017, 12:45 am
Do you recommend running these at mono blocks or stereo amps? That's a lot of power, so the idea of mono blocks seems insane for most speakers.

The power supply is integrated on the board, right?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:46 am
I'll commit to buying a kit. Does it require any soldering or is it pretty much bolt on and screw in and assemble carefully?

I am curious what you used these amps on (speakers) and any comparisons to other Icepower or Class D amps.

Thanks!

-dave

Sounds good. No soldering at all. It will be just screws and connectors. I've only tried them on a custom speaker I built myself. I've heard many Icepower's in my day. I have an 700AS here and this 1200as is in another universe. I've built many Hypex amps in the past. I designed the Nord one up NC-500 input buffer, and made 7 improved versions after that based on the NC-500. I've had NC-400's for 4 years, and even my first gen NC-500 amp beat them. I haven't compared them directly yet, to my latest version based on the NC-500's, but the sound I'm hearing from this amp is the best I've heard from these speakers. I have compared them direct to the NC502MP and there's no comparison. The 1200AS is hands down superior, and much more powerful.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Doublej on 8 Nov 2017, 12:48 am
Oooh, lots of power.  How does it behave with higher impedance loads (15-16 ohms)?

Lots of distortion too, though I am on the fence as to whether or not it matters.

Any chance that big blue button can be moved to the left about 1/3 of the way from the edge of the case?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:49 am
To be clear, what exactly will a buyer get in the kit?

I'd need to know this before committing.

Well this is a brand new idea I thought up an hour ago. So I still need to choose all of the parts and make a list. But you will get every part required to build a complete amp. I can probably offer upgrade for certain parts like connectors etc as well for just the difference of the parts cost. For example if you want anything from Furutech, maybe Dave C can supply those parts as he's a Furutech dealer. He could probably supply exotic internal wiring as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:53 am
Do you recommend running these at mono blocks or stereo amps? That's a lot of power, so the idea of mono blocks seems insane for most speakers.

The power supply is integrated on the board, right?

Well there's so much power that I really don't think most will need mono blocks. The sound is identical according to Icepower. There's the AS/1 and AS/2. The only difference between them is they enable a second channel in the AS/2. So if you ran an AS/2 with only 1 of the outputs, it's the exact same thing as the AS/1. Yes everything is all on 1 board.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 12:55 am
Lots of distortion too, though I am on the fence as to whether or not it matters.

Any chance that big blue button can be moved to the left about 1/3 of the way from the edge of the case?

That case was just an example of the case type. All of the cases will need to be identical. So if I get 20 commitments, I can share CAD drawings of different case layouts and people can vote on their favourite I suppose.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 8 Nov 2017, 12:58 am
Balanced input?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 01:00 am
Balanced input?

Yes it has balanced inputs. But could be run single ended as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: santacore on 8 Nov 2017, 01:02 am
If these do balanced and the pricing stays relatively the same, I'm in for 1.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 01:06 am
If these do balanced and the pricing stays relatively the same, I'm in for 1.

Price won't change unless you upgrade parts. I'll sit down and figure out the parts list for the $700 level and different options. I'll talk to Dave C @ Zenwave about Furutech options. But I'll use decent parts even for $700.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jon L on 8 Nov 2017, 01:38 am
What's the Input Impedance, for preamplification requirements?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 01:48 am
47K. Very easy to drive.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 01:58 am
Well looking like 6 commitments and a maybe so far.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jon L on 8 Nov 2017, 02:18 am
47K. Very easy to drive.

I will commit to one  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 02:23 am
Excellent! 7 and a maybe.

 Once I get 20 commitments I won't take the orders officially until I get a quote from Takachi on case lead time and amps from Icepower. The Japanese are awesome delivering on or before their commitment date. Usually 2-4 weeks for 20 cases. But I've gotten orders like that in as little as 8 days in the past. Icepower takes 2 days to ship from Denmark to me. All other supplies are 1 day shipping.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 02:44 am
Here's another example of Takachi's casework. This is my 8th gen NC-500 based amp in an integrated amp form factor.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171021)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171022)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171023)

Much larger case than I'll be using for this of course.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 02:54 am
The case will be the HY 88-33-33SS:

http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/c16/HYR_02.pdf
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 03:11 am
Up to 8 and a maybe. At this rate might get all 20 orders by tomorrow! Wouldn't that be great!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 03:24 am
Here's the base $700 price point 5 way binding posts:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171032)

Here's the XLR in's and RCA:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171033)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171034)

They will be mounted from the inside like this for a clean look:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171035)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171036)




Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 8 Nov 2017, 04:08 am
 :D sounds like a cool project indeed.  I've never built an amp before.     
          Is this really a kit anyone can do and do it right ?   :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 04:23 am
It will be very easy. Much easier than the NC-400 kit to assemble. Video on NC-400 kit assembly here for reference.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NMm4GsUDyLI

Everything is on 1 board. So a chimp could assemble these Icepower’s. I will pre-solder the cable to the analog inputs and binding posts with Furutech silver solder.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 05:24 am
Up to 9 and a maybe.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 05:55 am
Here’s a comparison to the 700AS. You can see the 1200 has a nice machined aluminum heatsink/baseplate now. The 700 has the heatsinks on top. Much better setup. It definitely conducts the heat into the case better as there’s way more surface area.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171037)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171038)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171039)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Nov 2017, 06:12 am
I am definately looking forward to hearing them next time you are in town Mike :beer:

jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:25 am
I'm definitely looking forward to hearing them through you and Don's awesome speakers as well! I was just listening to the DxD studio master copy of the Sheffield drum and track disk. OMG it was insanity. Way better than it ever sounded through the NC-500's.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Nov 2017, 06:40 am
well, like I said, I'm anxious to hear   it 

jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 8 Nov 2017, 06:52 am
I can come for that........
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 8 Nov 2017, 07:08 am
Would that be $700 for one mono amp?
Able/willing to ship to Europe?
Black case possible?
if your answer to the above is positive, I'd commit to 2 units, depending on the shipping cost  :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 07:30 am
Yes for mono you just simply use only 1 channel. The AS/1 is the exact same thing as the AS/2 but with 1 channel disabled. The power supply has more than enough current reserves to deliver full power to both channels, so when only 1 is used there's some extreme headroom I imagine. The Icepower guys said the power supply is actually overbuilt for the current it needs to deliver. It current limits at 38 amps just the same as the Hypex NC-1200.

 I can ship fast world wide with DHL. $50 each to the U.S 1-3 days, and 3-8 days anywhere else in the world for $100 each. I'll need to inquire if I can mix and match silver and black in the same order without ordering 40, or paying an astronomical price. Should be able to, but I think the black case is $20 more or so. I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 07:52 am
Looks like Icepower just launched a new website. Well I haven't seen it yet anyways.

https://icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/as-series/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 8 Nov 2017, 08:11 am
Mike, any option for monoblock configuration with AS/1 module or does it have to be AS/2 ? I am looking for black as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:21 am
I just finally seen a picture of the AS/1 for the first time. They just remove the chips and caps for the 1 channel. Everything on the other end is identical. The price is almost the same so for folks who want AS/1’s for monoblocks  I need to order minimum of 20. Or just use the AS/2 and only 1 output. Same thing anyways.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171040)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171041)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:29 am
If there’s enough interest for monoblocks I’ll order 20
of each.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 8 Nov 2017, 08:41 am
If there’s enough interest for monoblocks I’ll order 20
of each.

You mean 10 or 20 pairs ? Black case will be great as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:49 am
20 amp modules. If you want the AS/1’s, the only catch is you’ll need to wait until I have 20 commitments for AS/1’s. I will be selling these in lots of 20. Once a lot of 20 AS/2 commitments come in, I will order parts. Following that the next orders will go on the next lot of 20. I’ll do the same thing with the AS/1’s. But if you don’t want to wait using the AS/2’s as monoblocks will function and sound identical. Black cases shouldn’t be a problem. But might be a few dollars more.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 8 Nov 2017, 10:22 am
In that case I'd go for the AS/2 of which I'd be using only 1 channel 99% of the time, but the fact that they're effectively useable in stereo should raise resale value a bit...if I ever decide to get rid of them. :)

Just to confirm: you would wire them up as stereo amps from back to front?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: THROWBACK on 8 Nov 2017, 01:07 pm
I rewired my speakers to get a 16 Ohm impedance (easier load for my OTL tube amps). Would I have to re-rewire them back to original 4 Ohm config to use with the AS amps?I have tried a couple of SS amps and didn't like the results: great bass but cold highs.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 03:31 pm
In that case I'd go for the AS/2 of which I'd be using only 1 channel 99% of the time, but the fact that they're effectively useable in stereo should raise resale value a bit...if I ever decide to get rid of them. :)

Just to confirm: you would wire them up as stereo amps from back to front?

I just realized that all of the case machining must be the same for the first 20 cases. That will mean dual sets of binding posts. So even for guys who want to run as monoblocks they will need to use the AS/2’s or wait until 20 people who want monoblocks with 1 set of binding posts build up. But like you say better to just have 2 stereo amps as it’s exactly the same. Can also bi-amp your speakers this way.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 03:34 pm
I rewired my speakers to get a 16 Ohm impedance (easier load for my OTL tube amps). Would I have to re-rewire them back to original 4 Ohm config to use with the AS amps?I have tried a couple of SS amps and didn't like the results: great bass but cold highs.

These amps are supposed to work fine for nominal impedences of 4-16 ohms. So should be fine. But I couldn’t tell you how it will sound. That’s something you’d need to try.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 8 Nov 2017, 03:38 pm
Do you have any details on that (black) casing to be used?
Mainly outer dimensions would be nice to know in advance  :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 03:48 pm
Yes it’s the HY-88-33-33: “SS” is silver and “BB” is black.

http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/c16/HYR_02.pdf
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 8 Nov 2017, 04:04 pm
Please put me down for one.  If a choice of case color, I want black.
Thanks
Glynn Wilson
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 04:07 pm
Sounds good. I’m gonna need to tally up the count again. I’m getting orders via email as well. Will be at 20 soon. I better work on the case CAD today.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 8 Nov 2017, 04:23 pm
 :D  good Lord,,,, if i bite ,,  i'll need a preamp ,,,,, ha.... The never ending run through the jungle..    ha  :D
             but my stereo needs a re-fit indeed.   :D  (then speakers) ....... :scratch:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2oldcranks on 8 Nov 2017, 04:36 pm
I am good for one in silver 8) been wondering what to get for the spatial M4tm Im waiting on.Will be interesting to compare to the ice thats in my integrated(SX250A I believe)

THANKS
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 04:45 pm
Ha ha it never ends!

So for $700 there won’t be any silk-screening on the cases. Cost for the silk-screening will be $100 per case.
I can make a standard silkscreen template for the back to label the connections. Front will be left blank unless someone wants something on the front.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 04:46 pm
I am good for one in silver 8) been wondering what to get for the spatial M4tm Im waiting on.Will be interesting to compare to the ice thats in my integrated(SX250A I believe)

THANKS

Sounds good. Okay I will take another re-count soon. Must be almost at 20.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 8 Nov 2017, 04:59 pm
 :D  good Lord ,,,, where's my cheque book.   this thread is gonna hurt bad in a good way ....ha  :D
           the chimp is out ,,,,,, :duh:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 8 Nov 2017, 05:03 pm
I'm in for a stereo model with a black case.

Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 05:04 pm
Sounds good. Okay official recount time. Emails have been flying in as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2gumby2 on 8 Nov 2017, 05:41 pm
I'll be down for a Maybe in stereo black color. I was planning to buy a Schiit Audio Vidar amp, but this looks interesting. I've never owned a Class D type amp so I may be in for a surprise.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 05:44 pm
Okay so far here's the tally:

PM's= 3
mresseguie=maybe
SFdude=1
timind=maybe
santacore=1
Jon L=1
Dynky=2
Debjit.g=2 AS/1 or AS/2 not sure yet?
glynnw=1
2oldcranks=1
2bigears=?
k6davis=1
Emails=3

Grand total= 16 and 2 maybes. 17 if 2bigears is in. And need confirmation if Debjit wants AS/1's or AS/2's. I think most guys even running as mono's will just go with AS/2's. So might be a long wait to build up 20 AS/1 orders.


I'll get the case CAD done some time today. And then I'll talk to Dave @ Zenwave to see if he's interested in offering cable and binding post upgrade packages. This is first come first serve. So the first 20 with solid commitments will get in on the first lot. Any after that goes onto lot 2. The part order for lot 2 will be placed as soon as it's filled as well.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 05:45 pm
I'll be down for a Maybe in stereo black color. I was planning to buy a Schiit Audio Vidar amp, but this looks interesting. I've never owned a Class D type amp so I may be in for a surprise.

Okay sounds good. That's 17 now, and 19 if the 2 maybes are a yes. But the maybes will need to be a yes before more orders come in or they will be skipped to lot 2.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 8 Nov 2017, 05:53 pm
I'm in for one stereo amp (AS/2). If a choice of case color, I want black.

gab
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 8 Nov 2017, 06:06 pm
I recently bought a pair of Cherry Class D Maraschino Kings - which I like a lot... If it were not for that, I'd consider a pair of your mono amps. However apart from your claims, there really isn't much to inspire me to go that route.  Deciding on the Maraschinos was easy as there is no shortage of very happy campers in Cherryville.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 8 Nov 2017, 06:07 pm
Debjit.g=1 AS/2 in black

who takes care of the warranty if the module goes bad ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 8 Nov 2017, 06:11 pm
Would you leave the case "as is" as far as the available optionals go, or are the more descent looking feet and nicer torx screws already foreseen in your choice of finish?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: tvyankee on 8 Nov 2017, 06:13 pm
Hey.

Could you do a 5ch version in one case.  I am 3.1 guy and I like to go bi amp my fronts. No surround speakers for me.

Just a thought.

Thanks

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2gumby2 on 8 Nov 2017, 06:18 pm
O.K., I've decided to commit. It'll be my first experience with a Class D type amp so I hope this will work out. Will be driving Odyssey Audio Kismet speakers.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:23 pm
I'm in for one stereo amp (AS/2). If a choice of case color, I want black.

gab

Sounds good thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:24 pm
Debjit.g=1 AS/2 in black

who takes care of the warranty if the module goes bad ?

Icepower has a 3 year warranty. You would send them back to me. However they only have a 0.3% failure rate, so very reliable.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:24 pm
Would you leave the case "as is" as far as the available optionals go, or are the more descent looking feet and nicer torx screws already foreseen in your choice of finish?

I'm going to use solid aluminum feet and the nice torx screws.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:26 pm
Hey.

Could you do a 5ch version in one case.  I am 3.1 guy and I like to go bi amp my fronts. No surround speakers for me.

Just a thought.

Thanks

At this time I'm only doing this 2 channel version. In order to keep the pricing at these insanely low levels, an order of 20 unit's minimum is needed. If 20 people commit to a 5 channel version, I can make it happen.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 8 Nov 2017, 06:26 pm
That's very good to hear!
you can change my commitment to 1 black and 1 silver (I said all black before)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:29 pm
I recently bought a pair of Cherry Class D Maraschino Kings - which I like a lot... If it were not for that, I'd consider a pair of your mono amps. However apart from your claims, there really isn't much to inspire me to go that route.  Deciding on the Maraschinos was easy as there is no shortage of very happy campers in Cherryville.

Yeah lots of good amp out there. If the Cherry could match this Icepower, I'd consider it a bargain for a finished amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:30 pm
O.K., I've decided to commit. It'll be my first experience with a Class D type amp so I hope this will work out. Will be driving Odyssey Audio Kismet speakers.

Sounds good. It should work out just fine.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:33 pm
So we are up to 19 official commitments. A few on the fence still I haven't gotten a firm answer on.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 8 Nov 2017, 06:39 pm
I'll take two 1200AS amp kits in black.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:44 pm
I'll take two 1200AS amp kits in black.

Okay thanks. That puts me up to 21. You'll need to go into lot 2. As I'm quite sure at least one of the maybes is gonna say yes on lot 1. If not I suppose 1 for myself wouldn't be a bad idea.  It took under 24 hours to fill lot 1, so I can imagine lot 2 won't take long to fill. If it fills fast enough, I'll order all 40 at once.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:50 pm
Okay lots to do today. Now that I have 20 orders I will become a level 2 industry contributor and open up my own circle.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 8 Nov 2017, 06:50 pm
Yeah lots of good amp out there. If the Cherry could match this Icepower, I'd consider it a bargain for a finished amp.

Funny, I was thinking if your amp sound as good as the Maraschino’s, then I’d consider it to be a pretty amp at a very attractive price.

Unlike many Classic D manufacturers, the Digital Amplifier Company designs their own proprietary analog switching output stages and modulator circuits. This is what enables them to perform at the level they do. Perhaps the time will come when we can get together and do a little comparison? :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:54 pm
Funny, I was thinking if your amp sound as good as the Maraschino’s, then I’d consider it to be a pretty amp at a very attractive price.

Unlike many Classic D manufacturers, the Digital Amplifier Company designs their own proprietary analog switching output stages and modulator circuits. This is what enables them to perform at the level they do. Perhaps the time will come when we can get together and do a little comparison? :wink:

I would love to compare. Keep in mind typical manufacturers will be selling these amps finished at $3000+. And will beat many that sell for $10000+. So my price point shouldn't be used as a quality reference
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 06:55 pm
So we have 2 commitments for lot 2 so far. I'm gonna take a break to work on the CAD now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 8 Nov 2017, 08:00 pm
Wow. That was fast. I'm sure glad I didn't hesitate for more than 30 seconds and jumped right in.

This is gonna be fun.

Thank you, bavmike.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 8 Nov 2017, 08:18 pm
if you fill up the 2nd slot quickly and order 40 of them, you should be able to bring down the price to 600, right ?  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:19 pm
Wow. That was fast. I'm sure glad I didn't hesitate for more than 30 seconds and jumped right in.

This is gonna be fun.

Thank you, bavmike.

Ah so you did order. Ok there was one of the maybe's I was waiting for to make the 1's lot. No Problem. Can't wait to hear feedback from everyone!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:21 pm
if you fill up the 2nd slot quickly and order 40 of them, you should be able to bring down the price to 600, right ?  :D

No I'm not going to go in the hole to do this.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 8 Nov 2017, 08:24 pm
Is PS Audio using the same 1200AS module as well ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:26 pm
No they are using the 700AS. The 1200 just hit North American soil on Friday when I got mine. In the information age you must get new products to the market within 2 days :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jkelly on 8 Nov 2017, 08:27 pm
In for one (1) stereo amp in black.

Jkelly
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: aramesh on 8 Nov 2017, 08:31 pm
I am in for a Stereo (Black)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 08:32 pm
So up to 5 orders on lot 2. Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 8 Nov 2017, 08:56 pm
No they are using the 700AS. The 1200 just hit North American soil on Friday when I got mine. In the information age you must get new products to the market within 2 days :)

700AS is the same tech as 1200AS but only less power ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 09:06 pm
700AS is the same tech as 1200AS but only less power ?

No it uses the old circa 2004 ICCx chip. Not even close. I have both here. I already shared pictures. You can see dynamic range is 12db worse. But every possible perimeter is much better on the 1200as. And clearly audible as well. .


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171086)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 09:11 pm
Okay here's what I've come up with for a rear panel. The IEC inlet will have a toggle switch for mains power. Front panel will be plain.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171087)

And here's the base connectors:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171088)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171089)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171090)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171091)



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 8 Nov 2017, 09:47 pm
I would like 2 mono amps in black
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 09:48 pm
Sounds good thanks. 7 orders on lot 2.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: markn on 8 Nov 2017, 09:52 pm
Put me down for a stereo amp!

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 09:53 pm
Excellent thanks!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: shadowlight on 8 Nov 2017, 09:54 pm
@bavmike,
Does the IEC have fuse that is hidden somewhere else?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 09:55 pm
So I have the same Takachi case here but only 10cm wider. Same height and depth. The amp module is a perfect fit. And cables can be kept very short.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171094)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm
@bavmike,
Does the IEC have fuse that is hidden somewhere else?

I was planning on using an inline fuse. And there's another fuse right on the input of the amp. Unless you guys would prefer a fused IEC inlet?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 10:12 pm
I'm going to move the inlet to the other side because that's where the amp's power input is.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 10:35 pm
I'll have a hole cut for one of these right below the inlet:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171099)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 10:45 pm
Here we go:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171102)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 8 Nov 2017, 10:57 pm
Here we go:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171102)

could you drop the fuse a little lower so it is in a line with the binding posts?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 11:05 pm
Yes I can do that. And Dave from Zenwave is gonna put together some optional Furutech/Neotech connector/cable upgrade packages right away.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jon L on 8 Nov 2017, 11:35 pm
Yes I can do that. And Dave from Zenwave is gonna put together some optional Furutech/Neotech connector/cable upgrade packages right away.

Just for clarification, will the amp kit ship with openings for EITHER XLR inputs OR RCA inputs, not both at the same time, correct?  So then we have to let you know whether we want XLR or RCA?  (I presume both connectors will fit on same hole size)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 11:40 pm
Just for clarification, will the amp kit ship with openings for EITHER XLR inputs OR RCA inputs, not both at the same time, correct?  So then we have to let you know whether we want XLR or RCA?  (I presume both connectors will fit on same hole size)

The RCA's and XLR's are a direct swap. And the Furutech options are as well. Yes when you order just let me know. You can order a set of each as well if you need single ended today, and want to upgrade to balanced later. Just an easy swap.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Nov 2017, 11:46 pm
For those who don't want to build this amp themselves, I can offer an assembly service. I can ship the amp built and ready to go for $200 extra.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 12:03 am
Can everyone who's committed please send me a message through the "contact us" message box on my website?

https://www.miveraaudio.com/

I'm going to work on building a section om my website about this amp kit. As well as re-opening the online store.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: tvyankee on 9 Nov 2017, 02:18 am
Hello.

I see the spec sheet you put up and there is a  4ohm rating but do you know if it can handle a 2 ohm load without any problems.  Also the 600 watt rating is per ch. Correct?


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: tvyankee on 9 Nov 2017, 02:23 am
I see the per ch rating now. So sorry I answered my own question. My mistake. 

Is there a damping factor rating. Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 02:29 am
It can handle dips down to 1 ohm easily. The 2.7 ohm minimum impedance is referring to nominal impedance. These fancy microprocessor controlled class D amps have current limiters. It's only when a load that presents more than 38 amps of draw from the power supply, that it will limit out. Good luck doing that with home audio speakers of any type. They don't share a damping factor spec, but it will be very high. I was able to drive my speakers to much higher volume levels with the Sheffield Drum and Track Disk without my woofers bottoming out, than I was able to with the NC-500's. The driver control is unreal. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 02:32 am
Well I have my webshop open for lot #1. I'll let you guys know when all stock is confirmed to be available as well as lead time, then lot #1 committers can place their orders.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop

The Furutech/Neotech upgrade options will be added soon.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 9 Nov 2017, 02:37 am
Bottlehead requires payment in advance for their kits.  Speaking only for myself, as a long time member of group 1,  I have no problem if you do the same.  Oops, never mind - I just realized that is what you will be doing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 02:41 am
It's okay. I will not take any money until all of my suppliers confirm stock. I will know by tomorrow at the latest. But better to get more orders in sooner or later for lot # 2, because Icepower may be backed up for months if they get hammered by loads of orders by OEM's. I'm waiting for a reply on securing 40 unit's for now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 9 Nov 2017, 02:44 am
Will mono amps be in lot 2
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 02:55 am
Put down one stereo for my friend as well in Silver.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 9 Nov 2017, 02:55 am
I see the per ch rating now. So sorry I answered my own question. My mistake. 

Is there a damping factor rating. Thanks

Although they didn’t  share a damping factor spec it can be calculated since they shared the output impedance of the 1200 AS1/2 module. That number is 5 millohms or 0.005 ohms. For an 8 ohm rating the damping factor then will be 1600. For a 4 ohm rating the damping factor is 800.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 02:59 am
Put down one stereo for my friend as well in Silver.

Sounds good. Please let me know all orders via my contact us page on my website, along with here. Let me know what lot your ordering for. I have a website app on my phone where I can easily go though the messages and make sure nobody loses their spot in the cue.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:00 am
Although they didn’t  share a damping factor spec it can be calculated since they shared the output impedance of the 1200 AS1/2 module. That number is 5 millohms or 0.005 ohms. For an 8 ohm rating the damping factor then will be 1600. For a 4 ohm rating the damping factor is 800.

Best,
Anand.

Well good thing someone knows what they're doing :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:21 am
Here's the solid aluminum isolation feet:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171111)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 9 Nov 2017, 03:30 am
Although they didn’t  share a damping factor spec it can be calculated since they shared the output impedance of the 1200 AS1/2 module. That number is 5 millohms or 0.005 ohms. For an 8 ohm rating the damping factor then will be 1600. For a 4 ohm rating the damping factor is 800.

At what frequency?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 03:33 am
Here's the solid aluminum isolation feet:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171111)

I am hoping that feet is included ? looking at the AS2 module, it seems like a slimmer case is better suited ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:39 am
I am hoping that feet is included ? looking at the AS2 module, it seems like a slimmer case is better suited ?

Yes everything is included. No it's cutting it too close with the 70mm tall one. Better to have a bit of breathing room. Although it does dissipate very little heat from the top.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 9 Nov 2017, 03:39 am
Ok I will take a stereo amp in black
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:42 am
Ok I will take a stereo amp in black

Sounds good. I just seen your last comment. For monoblocks just use 2 stereo amps. If you only utilize 1 of the channels it's the same thing. Then you have the versatility down the road to bi-amp, active speakers, better resale value etc.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 9 Nov 2017, 03:46 am
I'll post some info on upgraded parts tomorrow... Furutech has a few binding posts that are really nice, also XLR jacks that use the same form factor as Neutrik. I'll have to get info from Mike on the wiring requirements and connectors, but I can supply an upgraded wiring harness that I'd guess would have a Molex on one end and go to the i/o jacks and AC power on the other end.

For RCA jacks the Furutechs are standard form factor and need a simple round hole so they may not work with the XLR cutouts on the chassis, but you could use both XLR and RCA ins, and there are several ways to do this I can get into unless Mike wants to... For my NC500 monos I used RCA and XLR inputs that both go through a Jensen input trafo that also converts the SE to BAL. This does not require a switch but both ins can't be used at the same time. It might be a good option for those with SE preamps... otherwise I'd just stick with using XLR only. I happen to have an SE preamp and a DAC/DSP unit with XLR outs so I needed both options.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:56 am
I'll post some info on upgraded parts tomorrow... Furutech has a few binding posts that are really nice, also XLR jacks that use the same form factor as Neutrik. I'll have to get info from Mike on the wiring requirements and connectors, but I can supply an upgraded wiring harness that I'd guess would have a Molex on one end and go to the i/o jacks and AC power on the other end.

For RCA jacks the Furutechs are standard form factor and need a simple round hole so they may not work with the XLR cutouts on the chassis, but you could use both XLR and RCA ins, and there are several ways to do this I can get into unless Mike wants to... For my NC500 monos I used RCA and XLR inputs that both go through a Jensen input trafo that also converts the SE to BAL. This does not require a switch but both ins can't be used at the same time. It might be a good option for those with SE preamps... otherwise I'd just stick with using XLR only. I happen to have an SE preamp and a DAC/DSP unit with XLR outs so I needed both options.

Sounds great Dave. I'll email you all the details on the Molex connectors soon. The cables will be very short. I think it's best for most to just use XLR and an adapter if they need single ended. That's what Nord does and nobody seems to mind. But if you're a hard core single ended aficionado, just use the RCA's.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 9 Nov 2017, 03:58 am
I'll post some info on upgraded parts tomorrow... Furutech has a few binding posts that are really nice, also XLR jacks that use the same form factor as Neutrik. I'll have to get info from Mike on the wiring requirements and connectors, but I can supply an upgraded wiring harness that I'd guess would have a Molex on one end and go to the i/o jacks and AC power on the other end.

For RCA jacks the Furutechs are standard form factor and need a simple round hole so they may not work with the XLR cutouts on the chassis, but you could use both XLR and RCA ins, and there are several ways to do this I can get into unless Mike wants to... For my NC500 monos I used RCA and XLR inputs that both go through a Jensen input trafo that also converts the SE to BAL. This does not require a switch but both ins can't be used at the same time. It might be a good option for those with SE preamps... otherwise I'd just stick with using XLR only. I happen to have an SE preamp and a DAC/DSP unit with XLR outs so I needed both options.
Ok 2 stereo amps
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 04:28 am
Awesome! Okay time to tally things up again. I'll getting emails flying in as well again. Won't be long until lot #3 starts.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZAKski288 on 9 Nov 2017, 04:40 am
I’m interested in one stereo amp in black. Ken
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 04:47 am
Excellent thanks! So if my tally is correct I have 13 units on lot 2 so far. But no commitment is official until it's submitted to the message box on my website homepage:

www.miveraaudio.com
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 9 Nov 2017, 05:58 am
Do the speaker outputs have common grounding?  It seems most class d amps don't.  Could be important if you like to use speaker level inputs into a sub amp.  Thanks...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 06:08 am
Here’s the data sheet info on the speaker outs:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171113)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 06:12 am
So got confirmation on the cases. It’s going to cost $40 more a piece for the black than the silver. So I’ll add the black option in my web shop.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 07:14 am
Do the speaker outputs have common grounding?  It seems most class d amps don't.  Could be important if you like to use speaker level inputs into a sub amp.  Thanks...

Here’s the data sheet info on the speaker outs:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171113)

This could be a problem with some subs ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:25 am
 In most cases high level inputs are for BestBuy grade subwoofers. If that's the grade of system you have then these amps probably aren't for you. REL is the only other sub company who likes high level inputs. Here's what they recommend:

"Occasionally, when used with Class D amps, REL subs can create grounding issues within a system. This is usually fixed just by changing the grounding scheme. The connection scheme is the same. Using the high level cable, red and yellow wires attach to positive and negative speaker terminals, respectively. If you are using a preamp, I recommend attaching the black ground wire to chassis ground on the preamp. Attaching to the amp may create a hum. If you are not using a preamp, attach to another nearby ground source like another appliance or even the screw on your wall outlet cover plate."
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:33 am
However further research has revealed this to be a 2012 era REL issue. Something that was hyped up on forums during that period by folks who were digging for excuses to discredit class D technology and suppress innovation. They since addressed it and is no longer an issue with Icepower amps.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 9 Nov 2017, 07:36 am
This could be a problem with some subs ?

Most people employ line level outputs from their preamps for sub amp signals, so it doesn't matter.  I like the flexibility to use speaker level outputs to provide sub signals because IMO it provides a more seamless transition from the main speakers to the subwoofer.  Maybe it has something to do with providing the main speaker and subwoofer with the exact same signal that has been processed through the amp, I don't really know.  :|  There is an alternate way to make a sub input cable using a resistor to make this work if needed.

The Best Buy remark is a bit harsh... especially for a guy that deplores biases.  :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:38 am
Well I was referring to the majority who use high level inputs. Not the minority. No biases. Just based on statistics. I already know the grade of system Debjit has. He is using my Purestream DAC. He's been a client of mine for a while.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:49 am
What are you running for speakers these days Dev?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 08:23 am
What are you running for speakers these days Dev?

AZ Crescendo MkII
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 08:25 am
AZ Crescendo MkII

Oh still have those. I thought you were going with OB? If so the GR stuff is quite impressive. I'll be trying these amps on them soon!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 08:42 am
Oh still have those. I thought you were going with OB? If so the GR stuff is quite impressive. I'll be trying these amps on them soon!

yes, I bought the Spatial M3TS and used it for couple of months. It has some good things which I liked but just couldn't eclipse my current speaker with my current room and setup....
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 08:46 am
Well those Zen's are incredible speakers. If you're happy with the sound then no point changing. They are gonna love the power of these 1200AS's. Are you still using the Cary pre?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 9 Nov 2017, 09:31 am
Mike, your Purestream DAC is not in the portfolio.

The Mivera Audio Purestream DAC DIY KIT

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/307500-mivera-audio-purestream-dac-diy-kit.html

What other DACs with balanced output do you recommend for this amplifier? With and without preamp. At least one with a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 9 Nov 2017, 03:29 pm
TOUR TOUR TOUR

I have been fooled before.  :cry:  Amps others thought were great were a big dud with my speakers.  This is especially true of Class D which I really want to love for several reasons.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 9 Nov 2017, 03:30 pm
Sign me up if there's a tour!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:39 pm
Mike, your Purestream DAC is not in the portfolio.

The Mivera Audio Purestream DAC DIY KIT

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/307500-mivera-audio-purestream-dac-diy-kit.html

What other DACs with balanced output do you recommend for this amplifier? With and without preamp. At least one with a reasonable price.

We I could launch the a Purestream DAC group buy as well. It’s a phenomenal DAC that was compared to over 30 top dac’s (Many over $10000). Only one it couldn’t beat is the $90000 MSB Select 2. But for now I’m busy enough with these amps.

There’s so many DAC’s out there these days. There’s nothing I can really recommend. But one thing for certain is the better the DAC, the better the sound you’ll hear from these amps. Very important.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 03:51 pm
I could possibly get a tour going after a while. But for now demand doesn’t really seem to be weak. The probability of me BS’s about this amp sounding good is very slim. Icepower spent millions over many years perfecting the Iceedge chip. And even the much worse sounding (and measureing) 700as that uses their circa 2004 ICCX chip is being sold in many amps costing $2500-5000 each. And they aren’t even using as nice of case and connectors as I am.

Anyways the biggest issue is availability now. I just talked to Icepower. I could only secure 42 amps for now and might be the new year before I can get more. Sales are through the roof. So I’ll split the lots into 21 each. All parts are confirmed to be secured now. So everyone on lot 1 can places their orders in the webshop now.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop

 I will work on cable and connector upgrade packages. But those can be added to any order at any time. Could be as little as 3 weeks to ship lot 1. But I’ll say 4 just to be safe.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 04:03 pm
Just so we are clear. You are in lot 1 if you committed before reply 74 of this thread. Some of those are via PM and email as well. If I sell out lot 2 today (likely will) I’ll ship both lots out at the same time.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 04:26 pm
Some folks messaged me but didn't let me know the lot#. So I thought of a solution to make this real simple. Lot #1 guys you know who you are. Place your orders at anytime. You can't over order because I set the available quantity at 21 units and it will automatically say sold out when all orders are filled. I will open up lot #2 in the webshop now. If you're not in lot #1 that mean's you're in lot# 2. I will set the available quantity for lot 2 @ 21 orders. Once they are sold out it will say sold out. Then that will be it. I will take a little break before opening a lot #3. So order away guys as it's first come first serve. My web shop will keep count.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 05:09 pm
We will work on the Zenwave connector/cable upgrade option over the next bit. This option can be added to your order at any time before the amps ship. Guys who already ordered can add at any time if they decide they want them.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 9 Nov 2017, 05:41 pm
Order placed. Waiting patiently for when the kits get organized together for shipment!

-dave
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 05:43 pm
Thanks Dave! I will order the parts once all of the folks who committed place their order.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 9 Nov 2017, 05:53 pm
Order placed. Waiting patiently for when the kits get organized together for shipment!

-dave

Ditto for me!

Michael


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 9 Nov 2017, 06:13 pm
2 ordered up! :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rklein on 9 Nov 2017, 06:16 pm
Black one for me. :thumb:

Randy
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 9 Nov 2017, 06:20 pm
TOUR TOUR TOUR

I have been fooled before.  :cry:  Amps others thought were great were a big dud with my speakers.  This is especially true of Class D which I really want to love for several reasons.

What speakers and what Class D amps have you tried that didn't work out with them?

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 06:25 pm
Thanks guys! If there’s any lot 1 or 2 commitments unfulfilled still tomorrow morning, I’ll open up their slots to others. I suppose nobody is really committed till they order. Still a couple left in Lot 2.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: aramesh on 9 Nov 2017, 06:46 pm
Order placed
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2oldcranks on 9 Nov 2017, 06:49 pm
ordered silver  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: drmike on 9 Nov 2017, 06:55 pm
1 black
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZAKski288 on 9 Nov 2017, 06:56 pm
Ordered placed, lot 2 , 1 black  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:00 pm
Thanks guys! Drmike were you on the lot 2 list from earlier? People who committed to lot 2 orders but haven’t ordered may start getting displaced soon as new orders have been coming in. If so sorry guys you’ll need to wait for Lot 3.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:37 pm
Mike, your Purestream DAC is not in the portfolio.

The Mivera Audio Purestream DAC DIY KIT

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/307500-mivera-audio-purestream-dac-diy-kit.html

What other DACs with balanced output do you recommend for this amplifier? With and without preamp. At least one with a reasonable price.

I forgot to mention I have 1 commercial version of the Purestream DAC for sale. Price is $2800. So that’s my recommendation.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 9 Nov 2017, 07:41 pm
As an owner of a Purestream I can highly recommend it.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 07:49 pm
Thanks Mike! And the DAC’s you had it replaced were phenomenal. Wait till you get the Slagleformer’s going with this Icepower! You’re in for a hell of a treat!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Atlplasma on 9 Nov 2017, 08:09 pm
This question may have been asked already, but I didn't want to read through 9 pages, and the in-topic search was a bust. What if I needed less power but 8 channels of amplification? Is there a way to do that without busting the bank and using four 1200AS modules?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 08:12 pm
This question may have been asked already, but I didn't want to read through 9 pages, and the in-topic search was a bust. What if I needed less power but 8 channels of amplification? Is there a way to do that without busting the bank and using four 1200AS modules?

The only way I can offer pricing this low is by minimum orders of 20 units. If I could secure minimum orders of 20 I can build anything. There’s not a single piece of Audio gear I can’t build besides turntables and phonostages.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 9 Nov 2017, 08:20 pm
Just placed order for 2 in black, have not read entire thread I would want xlr inputs though
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 08:21 pm
To add to that last post this 1200AS is the only Icepower I recommend. If you want lower power I’d go with the Hypex MP series.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 9 Nov 2017, 08:21 pm
Also I wish my email notifications for this thread was faster I was out of the office for a few hours and did not realize lot 2 was happening, hope I did not miss it  :duh:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 08:23 pm
Thanks! I will confirm all of the connectors with everyone before anything ships.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 08:24 pm
Also I wish my email notifications for this thread was faster I was out of the office for a few hours and did not realize lot 2 was happening, hope I did not miss it  :duh:

No if your order went through you made it. My webshop will say “out of stock” if they’re sold out.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 9 Nov 2017, 09:35 pm
Mike - do we need to pay for them right away in the webshop?
I would be Lot 2.  I just sent a message at the Mivera Audio site comment for 1 Silver.
Bill
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 9 Nov 2017, 09:36 pm
Order Placed, Stereo, Black, Lot #1.  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 10:01 pm
I can't place the order and I am in #1.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 10:07 pm
Mike - do we need to pay for them right away in the webshop?
I would be Lot 2.  I just sent a message at the Mivera Audio site comment for 1 Silver.
Bill

Message received.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm
I can't place the order and I am in #1.

Try another browser. Another guy had trouble with safari today. But all good for everyone else. I checked it out and all works fine for me.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: santacore on 9 Nov 2017, 10:56 pm
I had trouble with the Paypal portion when I tried to pay earlier. Changed my browser to Firefox and it worked normally. Apparently there was some kind of hang up with Safari.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 11:12 pm
I had trouble with the Paypal portion when I tried to pay earlier. Changed my browser to Firefox and it worked normally. Apparently there was some kind of hang up with Safari.

Who knows it usually works perfect.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 9 Nov 2017, 11:30 pm
I used Safari and it worked fine.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 9 Nov 2017, 11:39 pm
Done!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Nov 2017, 11:39 pm
I used Safari and it worked fine.

But you have that MacBook running at top level!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Pale Rider on 10 Nov 2017, 12:04 am
I am not in the market for one of these right now, though I wish I were. Those who have dealt with Mike know that he delivers quality product at a fair price. I have had the Superserver, Superstream, Purevolume, and PureStream all in my dynamic headphone system. And a Superstream in front of MSB DAC  Superb quality. Right now, Mike is in the process of helping me put the Superstream, PureStream, and Purevolume into a single chassis. These drive my Focal Utopia cans without additional amplification, and the sound is excellent. It’s the only  headphone rig I listen to other than my MSB Select II/T2/Stax 009 combination. Sorry if I sound like an advertisement. I am just a happy customer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Geardaddy on 10 Nov 2017, 12:07 am
I have been a customer of Mike's as well and can attest to his zeal and excellent execution of his gear.  I have never had better customer service in audio. 

I have been liquidating my previous Gucci hi end system due to a lifestyle change, and I have his Superstream up for sale for those interested:  http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649391264-mivera/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 12:09 am
I am not in the market for one of these right now, though I wish I were. Those who have dealt with Mike know that he delivers quality product at a fair price. I have had the Superserver, Superstream, Purevolume, and PureStream all in my dynamic headphone system. And a Superstream in front of MSB DAC  Superb quality. Right now, Mike is in the process of helping me put the Superstream, PureStream, and Purevolume into a single chassis. These drive my Focal Utopia cans without additional amplification, and the sound is excellent. It’s the only  headphone rig I listen to other than my MSB Select II/T2/Stax 009 combination. Sorry if I sound like an advertisement. I am just a happy customer.

Thanks Greg! I can’t wait to get this Puremusic system out to you!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 12:10 am
I have been a customer of Mike's as well and can attest to his zeal and excellent execution of his gear.  I have never had better customer service in audio. 

I have been liquidating my previous Gucci hi end system due to a lifestyle change, and I have his Superstream up for sale for those interested:  http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649391264-mivera/

Thanks Andrew. Yeah I’m not making those anymore so it’s a real catch for someone in the market for a streamer. And I will allow you to transfer the 10 year warranty as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 10 Nov 2017, 12:10 am
As an owner of a Purestream I can highly recommend it.  :thumb:

ditto  man  :beer:
AFAIK,  Mike has one Purestream Dac and 1 SuperStream  streamer  left .
jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 12:21 am
ditto  man  :beer:
AFAIK,  Mike has one Purestream Dac and 1 SuperStream  streamer  left .
jay

Thanks Jay!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 10 Nov 2017, 12:28 am
I have been a customer of Mike's as well and can attest to his zeal and excellent execution of his gear.  I have never had better customer service in audio. 

I have been liquidating my previous Gucci hi end system due to a lifestyle change, and I have his Superstream up for sale for those interested:  http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649391264-mivera/

Thanks for the vote of confidence in Mike. But does this liquidating due to lifestyle change also include your Star Sound Energy Room?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 12:32 am
He moved and unfortunately couldn't take the room with him.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 12:41 am
Okay so far some who committed to amps on this thread haven't ordered. So I will open up both lots for anyone. If you don't see "sold out" in my webshop under either lot #1 or lot# 2, that means you can go ahead and order. And your amp parts will be included in the parts order I place tomorrow.

Webshop here:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 01:11 am
I streamlined my webshop. No more lots 1 and 2. If it doesn't say "Sold out" anyone is free to get in on tomorrows order.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 10 Nov 2017, 03:59 am
Does that mean that those of us who have already ordered and paid are now considered in Lot 1? Even if we supposedly committed to Lot 2 in the order process?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 05:03 am
It doesn’t matter. I’m ordering all the parts for both Lot 1 and 2 tomorrow. There’s still some available in the webshop. The webshop will close for orders when all 42 units in lot 1 and 2 are sold.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: billc on 10 Nov 2017, 06:45 am
Order placed tonight for one icepower, assembled, in black.  I cannot wait to hear how this sounds with all the great press!  Please let me know what is possible for upgraded connectors.  Looking for single-ended.

Thank you!
Bill C
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 07:03 am
Thanks Bill!

If anyone wants to read up more on the Iceedge, order the free Audioxpress subscription. It’s an awesome mag to have a subscription to. I’ve been a subscriber for 22 years now.

http://www.audioxpress.com/news/stay-on-the-edge-of-audio-technology-with-audioxpress-april-2017
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 10 Nov 2017, 07:04 am
For folks who would like to upgrade the connectors from Zenwave, how will this work ? Will you be shipping it without the connectors or does the original connectors becomes of no use for those who upgrades ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 07:17 am
Well there’s a problem with Dave shipping direct to clients. I’m going to need to install the binding posts on the rear panel of all the kits. The reason why is they need to be soldered. And the connectors won’t fit through the holes after they’re soldered. So Dave will need to ship everything to me.

I’ll work on adding all of Dave’s options to my website soon. They can be added onto anyone’s order at any time.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 10 Nov 2017, 08:19 am
Well there’s a problem with Dave shipping direct to clients. I’m going to need to install the binding posts and analog in connectors on the rear panel of all the kits. The reason why is they need to be soldered. And the connectors won’t fit through the holes after they’re soldered. So Dave will need to ship everything to me.

I’ll work on adding all of Dave’s options to my website soon. They can be added onto anyone’s order at any time.

Ok. I hope they are available in the webshop (and off coarse to you) before you ship out the units.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 10 Nov 2017, 12:03 pm
alright I ordered one silver stereo unit.  You seduced me damn it bavmike.  I bet I'm one of the last in batch 2
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 10 Nov 2017, 01:35 pm
Just ordered a silver unit off Mivera Audio web shop.  8)

So quick question, are the balanced & rca connectors both supplied with the kit, & you choose which one to attach to the wires coming off the AS1200 board ?  Or do you choose which one that you want beforehand after you get in the parts order during your assembly prior to shipping kit ?

Didn't see anything on your web site re: kit options yet, so I wasn't sure. I know this is a fast developing project.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 10 Nov 2017, 03:25 pm
I think Mike is going to contact you before he ships
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 03:31 pm
Thanks guys. Okay there’s only 4 left for today’s part order for 42 units. I will add extra sets of RCA and XLR connectors to the webshop. And there will be the option of Neutrik with Mogami cable, and Furutech with different grades of cable from Zenwave. All connectors will have the cables soldered to them. Swapping between connectors is only a matter of removing 4 screws, and unplugging the Molex connectors from the amp board.

So before any amps ship, I will confirm with everyone what connectors they want, and if they want an extra set.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: drmike on 10 Nov 2017, 03:34 pm
i think i'm in lot2. i ordered from your website.
thanks,
drmike
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 03:42 pm
Thanks. There’s no lot 1 or 2 anymore. I just combined them. Once these final 4 units for lot 1-2 sell, I’ll start lot 3. Lot 3 will have 24 units in it. I’ve increased the lot size to 24.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 04:54 pm
After these 4 final lot 1-2 amps sell, I've come up with a better system for lot 3 and beyond. For folks who want to commit to order on a lot, I will setup my webshop to take $100 deposits for the lot. Once the 24 unit's in the lot sell out, I'll send out invoices for the remaining funds, and order all the parts. Then the next lot will begin.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 07:11 pm
I must say I’m very impressed with how this forum runs. I can see why so many manufacturers sponsor. Everyone gets their own circle. I’ve inquired on sponsorship. Hopefully I’ll have my own circle soon.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 07:20 pm
I got a message asking if Lot 1-2 amps are still available. The answer is yes. Once sold out I will remove the option to order from lot 1-2 and replace with deposits for lot 3.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 08:26 pm
I posted this on the other thread. But I want to keep all discussion relevant to this amp kit on this thread.

If you order XLR inputs, you can use XLR to RCA adapters. Or you can order an extra set of connectors in any type with the cables and connectors pre-soldered on them. We will have several options at different quality levels. The swap between any cable/connector option will only be a matter of 4 screws and done. The reason these options aren’t on my website yet is because I actually want them built so I can take high resolution photos of them first. They will be ready before lot 1-2 ships.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 10 Nov 2017, 08:40 pm
I must say I’m very impressed with how this forum runs. I can see why so many manufacturers sponsor. Everyone gets their own circle. I’ve inquired on sponsorship. Hopefully I’ll have my own circle soon.

Well you are pretty new around here.

What's really impressive is you being a virtual stranger just popped up out of the blue, announced that your a digital guru with this unobtainable amp board, but you don't have the slightest inclination for individual sales, and then within a matter of hours you've taken 40+ orders? That is truly impressive! In all the years I've been here, I can't think of one site sponsor that accomplished anything quite like that. So congratulations, I wish you (and all your patrons) good luck.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 08:46 pm
Well you are pretty new around here.

What's really impressive is you being a virtual stranger just popped up out of the blue, announced that your a digital guru with this unobtainable amp board, but you don't have the slightest inclination for individual sales, and then within a matter of hours you've taken 40+ orders? That is truly impressive! In all the years I've been here, I can't think of one site sponsor that accomplished anything quite like that. So congratulations, I wish you (and all your patrons) good luck.  :thumb:

I’ve actually been a member of this forum for 6 years. And many people already know who I am from other forums. I’ve also been in the OEM business for 17 years.

But thanks for the compliments!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 10 Nov 2017, 09:00 pm
Well you are pretty new around here.

What's really impressive is you being a virtual stranger just popped up out of the blue, announced that your a digital guru with this unobtainable amp board, but you don't have the slightest inclination for individual sales, and then within a matter of hours you've taken 40+ orders? That is truly impressive! In all the years I've been here, I can't think of one site sponsor that accomplished anything quite like that. So congratulations, I wish you (and all your patrons) good luck.  :thumb:

Bavmike is/was well known in the Diyaudio forums. It has not surprised me at all because I followed his participation on the thread of the Hypex NC500 and the subsequent creation of the new company Nord by Colin.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 10 Nov 2017, 09:06 pm
Bavmike is/was well known in the Diyaudio forums. It has not surprised me at all because I followed his participation on the thread of the Hypex NC500 and the subsequent creation of the new company Nord by Colin.

I own the Nords and they are very impressive, so if the new Ice boards are better and I can biamp on each side I will be a happy person, just saying
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 10 Nov 2017, 09:34 pm
NC500 but with Silicon Imagery Labs 994 Enh Ticha.

Jalejos measured several and it was the best. The worst the Burson Audio V5 without any doubt.

Problem, the Jalejos comments and graphs they are no longer (banned?). But, in others forums (hidden to Google) I wrote:

Quote
Re: Hypex NCore NC500 build by jalejos

-> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-130.html#post4737441

    Include some [THD] measurements of the design made by us. Version 1 is discarded as being too noisy. Version 2 corresponds to our original design modified by Richard. Version 3 is smd and included some improvements.

    The op amps are: LM4562, LME49720, MUSES01, Burson Audio V5, Sparkoslabs SS3602 and Silicon Imagery Labs 994 Enh Ticha…

My conclusion: you do not buy Burson Audio V5!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 10 Nov 2017, 09:37 pm
Email sent on your website - silver case with XLRs. Thanks!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 09:46 pm
Thanks! Still 3 left.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 10:00 pm
Bavmike is/was well known in the Diyaudio forums. It has not surprised me at all because I followed his participation on the thread of the Hypex NC500 and the subsequent creation of the new company Nord by Colin.

Yes my journey with the NC-500’s went on another 7 generations after my contributions on both Ncore threads. With each generation I was able to yield better sound.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 10 Nov 2017, 10:04 pm
Yes my journey with the NC-500’s went on another 7 generations after my contributions on both Ncore threads. With each generation I was able to yield better sound.

That is why I am waiting for your MK2 version of the IceAge amp.  I know you won't be able to leave them alone.  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 10:09 pm
That is why I am waiting for your MK2 version of the IceAge amp.  I know you won't be able to leave them alone.  :lol:

I really think they did a good enough job on their own. Better to invest in better source gear. People’s source gear will likely be the weak link when using these amps.
Title: Op-amps measures by Jalejos
Post by: maty on 10 Nov 2017, 10:19 pm
The Jalejos post (new address) with the op-amp measures. You need to be logged to see the pictures.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-106.html#post4737441

or here:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/Burson-Audio-V5-v2.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/LM4562-v2.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/LM4562-v3.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/LME49720-v2.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/LME49720-v3.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/MUSES01-v2.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/MUSES01-v3.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/SIL-994-Enh-Ticha-v2.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/SIL-994-Enh-Ticha-v3.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/Sparkoslabs-SS3602-v2.jpg

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Op-amps-by-Jalejos/Sparkoslabs-SS3602-v3.jpg


Updated:

The measures are in the Jalejos spanish webshop too (own class A and Hypex class-D)

[SP] http://www.atmstore.es/buffer-nc500-3/

[EN] http://www.atmstore.es/en/buffer-nc500-3/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 10:31 pm
The Jalejos thread (new address) with the op-amp measures. You need to be logged to see the pictures.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-106.html#post4737441

Yeah I seen them. Hard to beat the 129SNR of the 1200as. Keep in mind the NC-1200 and 500 datasheet specs are without a buffer. But you need a buffer as the input impedance is so low. In 95% of all Ncore based designs the buffer is the bottleneck. The other bottleneck is the modulator power supply.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 10:32 pm
Down to 2 left.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 10 Nov 2017, 10:37 pm
I have uploaded the graphs. Only I post the links here.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 10 Nov 2017, 11:10 pm
I really think they did a good enough job on their own. Better to invest in better source gear. People’s source gear will likely be the weak link when using these amps.

Can you tell how much of a power conditioner filter they put into the front end portion of the power supply? The chassis is mighty empty and looks like there is plenty of room inside for a "Felix" type circuit or even a good EMI filter.

gab
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 11:18 pm
Can you tell how much of a power conditioner filter they put into the front end portion of the power supply? The chassis is mighty empty and looks like there is plenty of room inside for a "Felix" type circuit or even a good EMI filter.

gab

I haven’t tried using any EMI filters. But the sound is superb for me direct to the wall with cheap generic cables. However yes lots of room in the chassis for those who want to experiment.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Nov 2017, 11:20 pm
Okay 1 left guys. It’s a silver but not too late to change to black. If the final buyer of Lot 1-2 wants a black, just message me and I’ll change the last unit to black.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 10 Nov 2017, 11:38 pm
Have ordered this amp. Will see if it can surpass my Nord and Mike's gen8 NC500.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 10 Nov 2017, 11:48 pm
Well you are pretty new around here.

What's really impressive is you being a virtual stranger just popped up out of the blue, announced that your a digital guru with this unobtainable amp board, but you don't have the slightest inclination for individual sales, and then within a matter of hours you've taken 40+ orders? That is truly impressive! In all the years I've been here, I can't think of one site sponsor that accomplished anything quite like that. So congratulations, I wish you (and all your patrons) good luck.  :thumb:

Joh, I haven't heard the amp yet but I do own a Purestream Dac and SuperStream streamer from Mike.   Fantastic pieces.  He'll be bringing the  amp here soon, we'll try it here and at Don's.... can shoot you a message when that's happening if you like ?

jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 12:05 am
Just to be clear I’m not interested in a Cherry vs Icepower war on Audiocircle. If folks want to compare their amps once they get them with any amp under the sun and share feedback I’m fine with that. But I’m not going to be involved. The market can decide the better value with time.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 11 Nov 2017, 12:10 am
Joh, I haven't heard the amp yet but I do own a Purestream Dac and SuperStream streamer from Mike.   Fantastic pieces.  He'll be bringing the  amp here soon, we'll try it here and at Don's.... can shoot you a message when that's happening if you like ?

Jay, That would be cool. I would however also like to hear it with the Spatial's as that load can be a challenge for some amps.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 12:14 am
Jay, That would be cool. I would however also like to hear it with the Spatial's as that load can be a challenge for some amps.

Yeah if they draw more current from the supply than 38 amps at your preferred listening level, they may be underpowered.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 02:05 am
Have ordered this amp. Will see if it can surpass my Nord and Mike's gen8 NC500.

Hey just seen this post. Yes I’m very looking forward to your feedback as you have both the Nord and my finest NC-500 based amp to date. Audiogeek is the owner of my Purepower integrated amp I shared pics of earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 11 Nov 2017, 03:56 am
I think the reason there is so much interest and excitement about this amp is the tantalising prospect of equalling or bettering some of the best class d implementations at a fraction of the cost.
We are all guinea pigs, but thats what makes this hobby interesting....
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 05:12 am
 Lots 1&2 officially sold out! Thanks a lot guys. You won’t be dissapointed. Deposits for the 24 piece Lot #3 are currently open in the webshop.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 05:40 am
So 19 blacks and 23 silvers sold. Pretty even split!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 11 Nov 2017, 05:51 am
So 19 blacks and 23 silvers sold. Pretty even split!

that was fast!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 06:01 am
that was fast!  :thumb:

Much faster yesterday. 38 yesterday and only 4 today.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 11 Nov 2017, 09:12 am
Will the amp have a standby/mute switch, or just the on/off switch on the rear located on the power receptacle? Any mention of your company name or serial number on the rear panel? Is a basic power cord included?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 09:55 am
It will just have the rear toggle. No silkscreening at this price point. I will include a basic power cable. You’re getting all you need to get the best sound from this amp. No frills. Along with a quality case, quality feet, and quality connectors.

 It will be interesting to see what others sell this amp for in the future. The 700AS modules in these amps cost less than half what the 1200’s cost.

https://www.musicdirect.com/power-amp/PS-Audio-Stellar-M700-Mono-Power-Amplifiers
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bunky on 11 Nov 2017, 12:36 pm
Lots 1&2 officially sold out! Thanks a lot guys. You won’t be dissapointed. Deposits for the 24 piece Lot #3 are currently open in the webshop.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
I just put in a deposit for lot #3. I want a silver case with single ended RCA connections. thanks , William
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 11 Nov 2017, 01:18 pm
Mike, can a standby/mute switch be installed on amp?


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 11 Nov 2017, 01:24 pm
Just a thought but you could probably omit the generic black power cord..

while we're all asking for custom addons that only serve us personally, I'll ask if anyone else thinks a 12v trigger port would be good?  ;)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jkelly on 11 Nov 2017, 03:31 pm
Can someone recommend XLR to RCA adapters to run unbalanced?

TY!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 11 Nov 2017, 03:56 pm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/audio_cables.html?oa=rat&sw=rca%20xlr%20cable

-> https://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cfu_3_mc.htm?ref=search_rslt_rca+xlr+cable_205857  €13.30 £11.76

Quote
Professional Audio Cable

    Male XLR to male RCA
    Cable cross-section: 2 x 0.22 mm²
    With Neutrik (Rean) connectors
    Hand-soldered
    Gold-plated contacts
    Length: 3 m
    Twin thomann cables
    Colour-coded
    Pair price

the same with only 1.5 m

-> https://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cfu_15_fc.htm?ref=search_rslt_rca+xlr+cable_197281 €11.90 £10.52

If they were for me, I would like Neutrik connectors and star-quad cable.

I use this in my cheap recabled headphones and I would buy it again and again! Look at the great specs!

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/takstar-ts671-recable.jpg

Van Damme Tour Grade Classic XKE Starquad microphone cable

-> http://www.van-damme.com/12.html


Finally, Van Damme starquad + rca to XLR male Neutrik and others

https://www.designacable.com/studio-leads-80.html

* Male RCA to Male XLR

-> https://www.designacable.com/studio-leads-80.html?connection_type=261

* * Pseudo Balanced RCA Phono to Male XLR Lead (PAIR). Van Damme Starquad Cable

-> https://www.designacable.com/studio-leads-80/pseudo-balanced-rca-phono-to-male-xlr-lead-pair-van-damme-starquad-cable.html


and you can try with Google: canare mogami van damme star quad rca xlr male

https://www.google.com/search?q=canare+mogami+van+damme+star+quad+rca+xlr+male
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 04:32 pm
Hi guys, those of you who made deposits for lot #3 my webshop automatically added a $50 shipping charge. I’ll refund the $50 and fix it. Regarding the switch, yes it could be done. But my objective was to get these into your hands at the lowest cost possible, keep it very simple to build, and still use 100% top grade components. Anyone can easily hand drill a hole for extra switches if they want. But I can’t do customized machining to only some cases. Well I could but it will be around $200 more for even 1 extra hole. Takachi is a high volume place. So they charge big money for 1 off’s.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 04:45 pm
Actually this amp goes into standby automatically when it doesn’t sense any signal coming in. So no need for a standby switch.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 11 Nov 2017, 04:59 pm
 That's even better!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 05:02 pm
Yes it's a really smart amp. This Iceedge controller chip has loads of cool features. Far more advanced than any class D amp from the past.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 11 Nov 2017, 05:04 pm
Talking about Van Damme cables...

Nord XLR to RCA Pair of Cables £45.00

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/product-page/nord-xlr-to-rca-cable

Quote
Pair of Hypex Spec handmade cables with Switchcraft Connectors using Van Damme Ultra Pure Silver Plated Oxygen Free Copper Cable.

Perfect to connect a Nord One Power Amp to a Pre Amp or sources that has RCA out only.

It is very audiophile but star-quad is much better to avoid RFI/EMI interferences.

Must read.

The Importance of Star-Quad Microphone Cable by John Siau

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/116637511-the-importance-of-star-quad-microphone-cable

They sell:

Benchmark Studio&Stage™ StarQuad XLR Cable for Analog Audio

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/cables/products/benchmark-starquad-analog-xlr-cable

Quote
Canare Star Quad L-4E6S + Neutrik's premium XX series connectors


Other option, an adapter:

Neutrik NA2MPMF-UW Adapter - 3 Pin Male XLR to RCA Jack - Unwired

https://www.amazon.com/Neutrik-NA2MPMF-UW-Adapter-Male-Unwired/dp/B01JUVRI86
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 05:09 pm
Here’s some of the features. The role of standby switch and 12v trigger is handled automatically.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171188)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 11 Nov 2017, 05:48 pm
Hi,

Just found this thread and have been reading all the posts. Is this a fair comparison to the PS Audio design which state:
Stellar engineer Darren Myers had planned from the outset to take advantage of Class D’s high current, low distortion, ruler flat linearity for the output stage—knowing full well it is the input stage that determines sonic character. This critical interface between preamplifier and power amplifier is where Stellar’s magic would be unveiled; where Myers could lavish upon the music the sweet, tube-like quality of Class A biased MOSFETs. His challenge was to synergistically marry both input and output topologies, for which he invented Stellar’s Analog Cell.

The Analog Cell is the heart of the M700’s musicality, where richly overlayed layers of music’s inner details are preserved even in the most complex orchestral crescendos. The Analog Cell is a proprietary, fully differential, zero feedback, discrete, Class A MOSFET circuit, hand-tuned to capture the smallest micro dynamics without sacrificing the loudest macro dynamics music has to offer.


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 06:12 pm
Hi,

Just found this thread and have been reading all the posts. Is this a fair comparison to the PS Audio design which state:
Stellar engineer Darren Myers had planned from the outset to take advantage of Class D’s high current, low distortion, ruler flat linearity for the output stage—knowing full well it is the input stage that determines sonic character. This critical interface between preamplifier and power amplifier is where Stellar’s magic would be unveiled; where Myers could lavish upon the music the sweet, tube-like quality of Class A biased MOSFETs. His challenge was to synergistically marry both input and output topologies, for which he invented Stellar’s Analog Cell.

The Analog Cell is the heart of the M700’s musicality, where richly overlayed layers of music’s inner details are preserved even in the most complex orchestral crescendos. The Analog Cell is a proprietary, fully differential, zero feedback, discrete, Class A MOSFET circuit, hand-tuned to capture the smallest micro dynamics without sacrificing the loudest macro dynamics music has to offer.

In other words it uses an input buffer before it. Yes lots of flowery language, but the purpose of the input buffer is to voice the amp to their own house sound. Not because it’s required for technical reasons. Also to make the amp more forgiving of poor sources.  But I can see it also raises the noise floor by 17dB at the same time. Some may like these euphoric colorations added to their amplifiers. However my philosophy is to build your system starting at the source. If you like how your source gear sounds, you don’t need your amp to mask anything. Voice your system with digital filters in software, use a tube preamp, or standalone buffer. Let the amplifier be an amplifier, not a turd polisher.

I know all about it. I designed the Nord 1 up buffer. But the reason that amp uses a buffer, is because it needs one for 90% of the preamps out there as the input impedance is only 8k. These all in 1 units are designed to be turnkey. No need for a buffer. All a buffer will ever do is degrade performance. Actually in my 8th gen NC-500 based amp the best sound is in passive, non buffer mode. But that only will work with a very robust source like my Purestream DAC with 10 ohm output impedance. This is why I had an active stage that could be activated with a push of a button for use with weak sources.

Anyways I only used that amp of an example of the dozens of Icepower based amps on the market. PS Audio knows what they’re doing, and what their clients are looking for. They are a great company, and legendary brand.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 11 Nov 2017, 06:24 pm
In other words it uses an input buffer before it. Yes lots of flowery language, but the purpose of the input buffer is to voice the amp to their own house sound. Not because it’s required for technical reasons. Also to make the amp more forgiving of poor sources.  But I can see it also raises the noise floor by 17dB at the same time. Some may like these euphoric colorations added to their amplifiers. However my philosophy is to build your system starting at the source. If you like how your source gear sounds, you don’t need your amp to mask anything. Voice your system with digital filters in software, use a tube preamp, or standalone buffer. Let the amplifier be an amplifier, not a turd polisher.

I know all about it. I designed the Nord 1 up buffer. But the reason that amp uses a buffer, is because it needs one for 90% of the preamps out there as the input impedance is only 8k. These all in 1 units are designed to be turnkey. No need for a buffer. All a buffer will ever do is degrade performance. Actually in my 8th gen NC-500 based amp the best sound is in passive, non buffer mode. But that only will work with a very robust source like my Purestream DAC with 10 ohm output impedance. This is why I had an active stage that could be activated with a push of a button for use with weak sources.

Anyways I only used that amp of an example of the dozens of Icepower based amps on the market. PS Audio knows what they’re doing, and what their clients are looking for. They are a great company, and legendary brand.

Thanks for the honest reply. I think I will place my order for lot#3 :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 06:40 pm
Thanks, no problem. My strategy for differentiating my amp in the market is honesty, not input buffers. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 11 Nov 2017, 06:44 pm
Thanks, no problem. My strategy for differentiating my amp in the market is honesty, not input buffers. :)
Just placed my deposit.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 06:47 pm
Just placed my deposit.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 07:04 pm
For everyone putting in deposits for lot 3, don’t worry about color or connector options right now. I will sort all those details with everyone once Lot 3 fills.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Nov 2017, 08:50 pm
Lot 3 is 30% filled! Would be nice to get that parts order out early next week!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 02:17 am
Good interview with Bruno Putzeys. He figures class D amps are so good now it’s better to put more effort into other parts of the chain. I agree.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/bruno-putzeys-head-class-d
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 12 Nov 2017, 04:20 am
Thats why you need to do a pre next :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 04:29 am
Ha ha I have done a pre. You can see in this review:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/possible-end-game-dynamic-headphone-rig-focal-utopia-mivera-superstack.838570/

But just like this Icepower, I can’t take credit for the sound quality. That all belongs to Dave Slagle and John Chapman. However 1 caveat with the Slagleformer’s is they must have a powerful gain stage section with ultra low output impedance before them to get the best from them. Like my Purestream DAC with 10 ohm output impedance has.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 12 Nov 2017, 11:43 am
Hey Mike. I'm curious if the orders already went out for Lots 1 & 2 or are you waiting for Lot 3 to fill up too before making one large order? Wanted to see when kits are estimated to be sent out so I can plan end of year trip plans w/the family appropriately. (I'm assuming nothing will get out until early next year.)

Thanks!

-dave
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 01:26 pm
Hey Mike. I'm curious if the orders already went out for Lots 1 & 2 or are you waiting for Lot 3 to fill up too before making one large order? Wanted to see when kits are estimated to be sent out so I can plan end of year trip plans w/the family appropriately. (I'm assuming nothing will get out until early next year.)

Thanks!

-dave

Hi Dave,

I already placed the amp and case orders for Lot 1&2. I was told I’ll find out lead time Monday/Tuesday from Icepower and Monday from Takachi. I will order parts for Lot 3 when Lot 3 fills. I won’t know the lead time for Lot 3 until the parts order is made. That will all depend on when it fills. How it works is I just get put in the queue in the order that they receive orders from OEM’s. So the sooner I order, the sooner the parts will come. No other way to get these amps any faster. They’re only available from 1 source. All the other parts are readily available quickly.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 01:38 pm
So far 10 deposits in for Lot 3.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 12 Nov 2017, 01:46 pm
what's the gain on this amp?  would it be better with a 0db buffer type preamp or straight out from a dac with variable output, or something with typical gain like a 12db gain preamp?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 12 Nov 2017, 02:09 pm
I was wondering how I would hook up the second channel to vertical biamp my speaker if I have balanced out from my PS  Audio BHK Pre to the one channel would I have to run rca out to the other channel to power the woofer
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 02:10 pm
25.8dB. My DAC driving them direct with the gain stage set at 15.6 dB was loads of gain. All depends on the efficiency of your speakers and how loud you want to listen.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 02:14 pm
I was wondering how I would hook up the second channel to vertical biamp my speaker if I have balanced out from my PS  Audio BHK Pre to the one channel would I have to run rca out to the other channel to power the woofer

To do that might need an XLR Y splitter. Maybe I should make some premium y splitters and add them to my webshop for folks so want to bi-amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 02:21 pm
If your preamp has sub-outs you can bi-amp by using the sub-outs to the woofers as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 02:31 pm
For me this amp sounds astonishing direct from the outputs of my DAC. That means I like how my DAC sounds, and it has more than enough grunt to drive the amp with ease. If others try the same thing and don’t like what they hear it only means they simply don’t like the sound of their DAC. Or their DAC has a wimpy gain stage. 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171205)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 03:01 pm
Maybe after a couple more lots I will build what I consider a reference DAC/Pre and send it on a tour around the U.S to all of my clients who bought amps. And I’m talking MSB Select DAC 2 quality. If you guys like what you hear, this could be the next group buy.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 03:17 pm
Palerider who posted earlier is my reference ears for my gear now as he has the MSB Select. He’s also owned everything under the sun. He connects his Focal Utopia headphones directly to the outs. Can’t get more of a direct feed than that. If he thinks my gear can match his Select, then I’ll consider it worthy of a tour out to you guys. If he doesn’t like it, then back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 12 Nov 2017, 03:22 pm
oh man, my wallet is quivering in fear.  I better stock up on ramen  :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 12 Nov 2017, 03:29 pm
To do that might need an XLR Y splitter. Maybe I should make some premium y splitters and add them to my webshop for folks so want to bi-amp.

Sounds good
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 03:31 pm
oh man, my wallet is quivering in fear.  I better stock up on ramen  :P

Ha ha well that’s beauty of doing things in lots and selling direct. I can offer gear that would cost 10x more if sold through the traditional Industrial Age method. In an Amazon world the Sears model no longer works.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 12 Nov 2017, 03:48 pm
Kudos to You Mike! On the other hand, the Sears stores that closed in my state of WV have left lots of folks without a job, and there aren't many good job opportunities here. But that's a story for another day/forum. It's hard to turn down a great deal when it's staring you in the face, no matter where you are.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 04:04 pm
Kudos to You Mike! On the other hand, the Sears stores that closed in my state of WV have left lots of folks without a job, and there aren't many good job opportunities here. But that's a story for another day/forum. It's hard to turn down a great deal when it's staring you in the face, no matter where you are.

Yeah well innovation will always mean job losses in some areas, and jobs gained in others. But the world isn’t gonna stop innovating any time soon. So in this world you either adapt to change, or get left in the dust. Anyone who realizes that has nothing to worry about. Putting your head in the sand isn’t the solution.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 12 Nov 2017, 04:10 pm
Maybe after a couple more lots I will build what I consider a reference DAC/Pre and send it on a tour around the U.S to all of my clients who bought amps. And I’m talking MSB Select DAC 2 quality. If you guys like what you hear, this could be the next group buy.

I'd certainly be interested!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 04:16 pm
Well I’m working on my Puremusic system right now. I’ll share pictures when it’s ready. Once Palerider puts it through the paces maybe he can share his honest, unbiased feedback. Then from there I can compile a list of those interested in getting in on a tour. Only thing is if you want in on the tour you need to be willing to buy it after if you like it. Not just listen for curiosity sake.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 04:25 pm
The beauty of this system is it will only be successful if you guys like the product. Not the Audiophile press. If you guys don’t like the product, I don’t build a lot, and I fail. So it’s in my best interests to build a damn fine product for the money. Because I don’t like to fail.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 12 Nov 2017, 05:09 pm
The beauty of this system is it will only be successful if you guys like the product. Not the Audiophile press. If you guys don’t like the product, I don’t build a lot, and I fail. So it’s in my best interests to build a damn fine product for the money. Because I don’t like to fail.

Then you better build a good product!  :green:

Failure is for those who don't know what their customer base is looking for. That's the way of business, unfortunately. You can make the greatest product in the world but if it's not what the customer is looking for, it won't succeed.  :nono:
 
-dave
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 12 Nov 2017, 05:16 pm
Then you better build a good product!  :green:

Failure is for those who don't know what their customer base is looking for. That's the way of business, unfortunately. You can make the greatest product in the world but if it's not what the customer is looking for, it won't succeed.  :nono:
 
-dave

The biggest success comes from building something the customer didn't know they wanted yet. AKA, Apple.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 05:16 pm
Yes so far my customers have liked great sound. So I best keep to the same program :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 05:18 pm
The biggest success comes from building something the customer didn't know they wanted yet. AKA, Apple.

Yes I agree with that 100%. That’s what I’m working on with my OEM products. Sometimes you need to show them what they want. But helps to have a massive brand backing you for that.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 12 Nov 2017, 05:42 pm
Maybe after a couple more lots I will build what I consider a reference DAC/Pre and send it on a tour around the U.S to all of my clients who bought amps. And I’m talking MSB Select DAC 2 quality. If you guys like what you hear, this could be the next group buy.

I'm interested in this possibility. I'll try to exercise patience and not pester you for likely pricing of such a DAC until you are ready to announce it.  :drool:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 05:49 pm
I'm interested in this possibility. I'll try to exercise patience and not pester you for likely pricing of such a DAC until you are ready to announce it.  :drool:

Well I’m talking about a full blown streamer/DAC/Pre. Casework much higher grade than Takachi can do, but matches the amp. The custom unit Palerider ordered was $12500. But it was a custom 1 off unit. So it’s a very expensive piece to build. I’m already on my second machine shop because the first one wasn’t competent enough. But these guys do incredible work. So in a lot of 20 units this price could be decreased substantially. Wholesale to the public just like these amps. I would have to figure it out at the time.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 06:55 pm
Just an FYI. If you don’t have a PayPal account my webshop also takes credit cards and visa debit cards. Just hit the “Checkout with PayPal” button in the cart, and the options are at the bottom.



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171234)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171235)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 12 Nov 2017, 07:15 pm
Lot 3 total so far?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 12 Nov 2017, 07:24 pm
I have updated my post about RCA to XLR male with starquad cables.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153645.msg1643304#msg1643304
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 12 Nov 2017, 08:00 pm
Only thing keeping me from getting in on lot 3 is that I have one system for everything, i.e. movies and music.

Any chance of making a multi-channel unit? I assume it's a matter of putting 3 stereo modules in one case.

In any case, I've always loved what class D offers and will probably get in on lot 3!  :thumb:

I searched the thread and found the post about multi-channel.  I would definitely be in for a 5-channel lot if that happens.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 12 Nov 2017, 08:20 pm
Well I’m talking about a full blown streamer/DAC/Pre.
I'd be interested in this too.

What function does the streamer perform? Or asked another way, the power amp goes after this unit in the chain. What goes before this unit?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 08:34 pm
Lot 3 total so far?

12
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 08:37 pm
I'd be interested in this too.

What function does the streamer perform? Or asked another way, the power amp goes after this unit in the chain. What goes before this unit?

The unit will have 2 analog inputs, ST fiber Ethernet input, and 2 sets of pre-outs. The streamer is for the Ethernet input. a $25 box can convert any RJ-45 Ethernet port to ST fiber. Either that or use a switch with an SFP port. All you need other than the amp, speakers and network gear, will be a small server like an Intel NUC to run a media player like Roon.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 12 Nov 2017, 09:03 pm
Will the dac component also be dsd256 only?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 12 Nov 2017, 09:22 pm
So I have the same Takachi case here but only 10cm wider. Same height and depth. The amp module is a perfect fit. And cables can be kept very short.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171094)

Looks like 3 modules could fit in there no problem for a 6-channel version. Hmmm...

Anyone else interested in a multi-channel version?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 09:23 pm
Great thread. Found it yesterday while taking a study break.  Down the rabbit hole... :lol:

Only thing keeping me from getting in on lot 3 is that I have one system for everything, i.e. movies and music.

Any chance of making a multi-channel unit? I assume it's a matter of putting 3 stereo modules in one case.

In any case, I've always loved what class D offers and will probably get in on lot 3!  :thumb:

I searched the thread and found the post about multi-channel.  I would definitely be in for a 5-channel lot if that happens.

Well if you order 3 of them you have 6 channels of 1200AS power for less than anyone else is selling 2 channels of 1200AS power for. Something to consider.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 09:24 pm
Looks like 3 modules could fit in there no problem for a 6-channel version. Hmmm...

Anyone else interested in a multi-channel version?

Get 20 people on board and I'll make it happen. But I don't want to cram in too many like sardines. I'd use a bigger case. Also that's a 10mm wider case than I'm using in this kit. I could put 3 in the case pictured, but I'd machine cooling vents between the modules.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 10:06 pm
I changed the fuse holder to this one. It has a nice finger grip, and snaps right into the panel easy.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171240)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 10:30 pm
These are going to be my upgrade binding post option. In either gold or rhodium. They are very good. Allows you to get a very tight grip on spades.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171247)

I used them on my Purepower:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171249)





Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 12 Nov 2017, 10:53 pm
 :D ok , ok , enough already ,,,, I'm IN.  Need new speakers now and a preamp.   Good lord have mercy.
       Sure hope this is easy cheesy to assemble as I've never built an. Amp.  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: tvyankee on 12 Nov 2017, 11:21 pm
Hey.

What are We talking as far as cost for a multi ch amp if you made it happen?

Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 12 Nov 2017, 11:34 pm
I'm in for a stereo amp in silver, deposit for the kit has been paid. I'll want the upgraded connectors and wiring. If one wants assembly service, what's the estimated additional time required over and above kit delivery?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 11:38 pm
Hey.

What are We talking as far as cost for a multi ch amp if you made it happen?

Thanks

Okay I gave the 6 channel amp some thought. I could shrink the required lot size to 8 units, and do them for $1800 each, and $300 more assembled.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 11:38 pm
:D ok , ok , enough already ,,,, I'm IN.  Need new speakers now and a preamp.   Good lord have mercy.
       Sure hope this is easy cheesy to assemble as I've never built an. Amp.  :D

Thanks bigears!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Nov 2017, 11:41 pm
I'm in for a stereo amp in silver, deposit for the kit has been paid. I'll want the upgraded connectors and wiring. If one wants assembly service, what's the estimated additional time required over and above kit delivery?

Thanks! Assembly will take just an additional day or 2. I have someone lined up for full time assembly duty for the day the parts orders arrive.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 12:06 am
Lot #3 is up to 16 orders.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 12:29 am
Here's the upgrade XLR and RCA options. RCA in Gold or Rhodium:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171250)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171251)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171252)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 13 Nov 2017, 12:59 am
Lot #3 is up to 16 orders.

Confucius say "He who sit on fence get splinters in butt." 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 13 Nov 2017, 01:20 am
Here's the upgrade XLR and RCA options. RCA in Gold or Rhodium:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171250)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171251)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171252)

Any sound quality comparison between Rodium and Gold ? In terms of price, what are we talking about for the upgraded connectors and wiring ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 01:20 am
Just added the $1800 6 channel 1200AS2 lot #1 to the webshop:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 01:43 am
Dave’s a better guy to ask about the difference in sound between the plating. Still working on the pricing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 01:56 am
I just realized the 6 channel version is a 7200w amp! This is gonna be a beast! I can imagine powering a home theatre or active speaker with these!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jmc207 on 13 Nov 2017, 02:16 am
They're beginning to hurt too. May be time to get off the fence.

Confucius say "He who sit on fence get splinters in butt."
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 02:50 am
Ok guys I decided that at 9am pacific time Monday morning I’m going to close Lot #3 no matter if all 24 are reserved or not. I’m already at 18 so they will likely sell out anyways in the next couple hours at this rate. I still have time to squeeze Lot 3 into Lot 1&2 case order and get the order in for the amp modules.

If Lot 3 fills before I go to bed I’ll replace it with Lot 4. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 13 Nov 2017, 03:04 am
I just realized the 6 channel version is a 7200w amp! This is gonna be a beast! I can imagine powering a home theatre or active speaker with these!

Yeah, at 4 Ohms!  :o  this will be fun  :banana piano:

Also wondering: do you have a link that shows some of the products you've designed?  I checked your profile, but no gallery or info there.  Just curious to see more of your designs.  The couple here you've posted look great, clean and elegant design. Thanks  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 05:55 am
Yes it will be! I wiped out the website when I decided to go OEM only.  I only had a few products for Mivera. Here's my Superstack streamer, DAC and Preamp:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171268)

Here's the back of the Superstream streamer and Purestream DAC:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171269)



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 06:14 am
Hi guys,

Since I'm ordering all lot 3 parts in the morning, anyone who wants to get in on lot 3 can add both the $100 deposit plus the $600 for silver, or $640 for black to the cart. So tonight is the last chance to get in on lot 3. Everyone who made deposits for lot 3 already, can order their amp of choice in the webshop now. After the morning parts order, I'll open up lot 4.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 07:46 am
Got a lead time on all 66 cases in lots 1-2-3. Still 5 left in Lot not ordered yet.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171272)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 13 Nov 2017, 08:04 am
I thought the rca were going to need to be the same style connector as the neutrik to fit in the same size hole?  how will the upgraded ones fit?  those are wbt nextgen right?
Title: Gold, rhodium, copper... connectors
Post by: maty on 13 Nov 2017, 08:13 am
Talking about gold, rhodium, copper...

The Conductivity of Metals Used in Hi-Fi.

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/blog/2011/11/20/the-conductivity-of-metals-used-in-hi-fi/

(http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Conductivity.jpg) (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Conductivity.jpg)

Quote
Coatings

Copper is often coated to keep it from oxidizing. This is necessary, since, as is generally known, it tarnishes quickly, as anybody can see by taking a glance at the copper façades of buildings – the brown, matte material to be seen there is copper, the reddish shine of which will subside to the brownish colour of copper oxide within a few days. And copper oxide is a bad conductor. Similar happens to brass – everyone knows brass artifacts which show a patina, which is nothing other than an oxide layer. Thus, materials which are less prone or even inert to oxidization are being used for plating copper or brass, like tin, nickel, or gold. But also silver. Silver protects the carrier material from oxidation too, but will oxidize itself in the process. It is still a material of choice for plating electrical contacts, since silver oxide is a very good conductor, too, if not quite as good as silver itself. That is why silver plated contacts are best cleaned regularly, or protected by means of a contact enhancer.

By the way, are there audiophile star quad cables?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 08:33 am
I thought the rca were going to need to be the same style connector as the neutrik to fit in the same size hole?  how will the upgraded ones fit?  those are wbt nextgen right?

The connector screws out of the middle of the Neutrik RCA’s. I can replace with the Furutechs.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 13 Nov 2017, 11:05 am
I sent an email to Icepower.dk inquiring about a 1200AS2 data sheet & the amp sensitivity. Response below ...

Hi Robert,

Data sheet isn’t quite finished yet, but the internal sheet I have access to states:

Vin
Input sensitivity fin = 1 kHz, Po = 1200 W / 4 Ohm
5.0 Vp

Regards,  Paul


Edit: So to determine Volts rms =  1/(square root of 2) x Volts peak =  .707 x Vp = 3.54 Vrms



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 13 Nov 2017, 11:10 am
Just to clarify the process, now that we've paid for the basic amp kit, what will be the procedure for conveying the details of each customer's amp build? Do we contact you or will you contact the customer for those details? I presume you'll add more payment options on your website for the upgrades.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 12:04 pm
Just to clarify the process, now that we've paid for the basic amp kit, what will be the procedure for conveying the details of each customer's amp build? Do we contact you or will you contact the customer for those details? I presume you'll add more payment options on your website for the upgrades.

Don't worry I'll contact you to let you know. I'll be adding all the options to the webshop soon. 2 of the options will be the base XLR and RCA option. You can add you your cart and checkout for free. The upgrade options will be additional cost.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 12:05 pm
Sorry guys. For some of you who paid this morning I forgot to turn on the shipping charge. So I'll need to bill you for the shipping at some point. Thanks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Nov 2017, 12:12 pm
I sent an email to Icepower.dk inquiring about a 1200AS2 data sheet & the amp sensitivity. Response below ...

Hi Robert,

Data sheet isn’t quite finished yet, but the internal sheet I have access to states:

Vin
Input sensitivity fin = 1 kHz, Po = 1200 W / 4 Ohm
5.0 Vp

Regards,  Paul


Edit: So to determine Volts rms =  1/(square root of 2) x Volts peak =  .707 x Vp = 3.54 Vrms

That’s correct. But to clarify for others, 3.54V RMS is the amount of voltage required to reach 1200W at 4 ohms. Most if not all of you will not need that much power(!!), I hope. So even some dacs out there that have 4V RMS output will be able to clip this amplifier.

Put it another way, 1200 watts into 4 ohms means 69.2V RMS. If the input sensitivity is 3.54V RMS, using gain (dB) = 20 * log (Vout/Vin) = 20*log(69.2/3.54) = ~ 26 dB of gain (and this is a fixed entity).

The math works out  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 13 Nov 2017, 12:36 pm
Thanks Anand, good info.  :thumb:   I was working out those calculations this morning in fact for my DAC which has 5.6 Vrms XLR connections. This would set the DAC volume initial attenuation, then listening level attenuation would be added on top of that.

Bavmike had stated earlier that the 1200AS2 amp gain was 25.8 dB, so the math does indeed verify the data given! 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 13 Nov 2017, 03:03 pm
Any sound quality comparison between Rodium and Gold ? In terms of price, what are we talking about for the upgraded connectors and wiring ?

The FT-903(R) RCAs are $65/pr. The R is for rhodium and is what I recommend. Gold will be a little warmer sounding, the gold version goes for $57/pr. Rhodium is also harder, so more durable.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 03:32 pm
So far 62 sets of ears are going to be among the first to listen to Iceedge technology on the planet. Still 4 amps left in Lot 3 though. So not too late to be among these guys. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 05:02 pm
Crossing my fingers that the lot 3 amps can ship before the cases arrive. Waiting for an email to hear. As long as all 66 amps can arrive before the 66 cases then that’s all that matters.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 13 Nov 2017, 05:09 pm
Mike,  Do you know of any OEMs are using these amps yet or have products using them under development?  They seem pretty turnkey. Add water (fancy case) and stir (XXX the price, market hype).
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 05:25 pm
Well I can imagine lots after they hear them. Many amps like the Pascal’s have been turnkey for years now. But companies put them in heavy aluminum cases and charge $10000-30000 for them. All they need to do is spend $30 in parts on a buffer to voice to their own house sound. So I can imagine we will see much more of that. And of course like always, people will gladly pay dearly for this added coloration and bling.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 05:38 pm
My advice if you want the best sound for your dollar is to get these amps and put the savings into better source gear. Rather than spend more on amps designed to hide flaws in the source gear. That’s backwards logic in my mind.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 13 Nov 2017, 06:01 pm
My journey in Class D began with a kit I built from ClassD audio, then added another output board, upgraded power supply and a felix power line something or other. I got tired of messing with tubes and the heat of class A wanted to try something I could leave on and ready to play. Like it so much I bought a pair of the D Sonic M600 monos (not on website) based on Pascal M Pro boards I think, I felt like I had too much power into my PSB Imagine T3 speakers and also got the NCore bug so I sold the D Sonic and bought the Acoustic Imagery NCore 500 based amps that were supposed to be able to change opamp inputs at a later date but the distributor changed his mind so I sold them and bought the Nords and yes the opamps make a difference but not huge, so if these amps are supposed to be better I will know when I compare them.

Mike I am a little worried about power interaction with my speakers but what I might of disliked with the Pascal boards might of been because of the sound of the boards and not the power they put out... your thoughts?

Also I think I want to change my order to kits and put the build cost to the upgraded wire and parts, I imagine I can just wait until you contact us?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 06:20 pm
My journey in Class D began with a kit I built from ClassD audio, then added another output board, upgraded power supply and a felix power line something or other. I got tired of messing with tubes and the heat of class A wanted to try something I could leave on and ready to play. Like it so much I bought a pair of the D Sonic M600 monos (not on website) based on Pascal M Pro boards I think, I felt like I had too much power into my PSB Imagine T3 speakers and also got the NCore bug so I sold the D Sonic and bought the Acoustic Imagery NCore 500 based amps that were supposed to be able to change opamp inputs at a later date but the distributor changed his mind so I sold them and bought the Nords and yes the opamps make a difference but not huge, so if these amps are supposed to be better I will know when I compare them.

Mike I am a little worried about power interaction with my speakers but what I might of disliked with the Pascal boards might of been because of the sound of the boards and not the power they put out... your thoughts?

Also I think I want to change my order to kits and put the build cost to the upgraded wire and parts, I imagine I can just wait until you contact us?




There's no such thing as too much power. Too little power causes far more problems than too much. You probably just didn't like the Pascal's. The NC-500's have more power than those Pascal's.

Just let me know once the connector info is up on my webshop.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 13 Nov 2017, 06:27 pm
The FT-903(R) RCAs are $65/pr. The R is for rhodium and is what I recommend. Gold will be a little warmer sounding, the gold version goes for $57/pr. Rhodium is also harder, so more durable.

Can you also list the XLR version ? Will these be available in mivera web shop ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 06:29 pm
Yes. I already posted all the available connectors on this thread.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 06:39 pm
Regarding cables, there's going to be 3 choices for input wire. Mogami W2893 is the base wire. Next up is some OCC copper from Zenwave, and top is Dave's silver/gold OCC blend. For speaker cable there's OCC copper and Dave's Silver/gold blend.

For power there's 12 gauge silver plated teflon coated mil spec wire as the base wire. And Furutech S55N 10G for the premium. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 07:02 pm
Edit: Deposit has been removed for lot 3. Once the remaining few lot 3 amps sell out, lot 4 deposits will begin.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 13 Nov 2017, 08:57 pm
How well would this amp work using my pioneer sc79 for the preamp
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 09:39 pm
How well would this amp work using my pioneer sc79 for the preamp

It will work fine with pretty much anything that has RCA or XLR outputs.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 13 Nov 2017, 09:53 pm
Pretty amazing how many preorders/sales you have.
The Gen8 NC500 sets the bar pretty high, the IceEdge is going to have to be spectacular to equal it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm
Pretty amazing how many preorders/sales you have.
The Gen8 NC500 sets the bar pretty high, the IceEdge is going to have to be spectacular to equal it.

Yes it's a killer amp. And yes I wasn't expecting this many orders. Still no word from Icepower yet on lead time. I can imagine they are super busy.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 13 Nov 2017, 10:39 pm
The Gen8 NC500 sets the bar pretty high, the IceEdge is going to have to be spectacular to equal it.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the NC400 monos I currently have. They're a definite upgrade from the decent "Class D Audio" amp I had prior to that. I haven't heard any version of the NC500 and obviously I haven't heard the IceEdge.

Over the years, I've thought that there wasn't room for significant improvement in the sound I'm getting, but I've been proven wrong about that many times. :D I haven't a clue what to expect from an amp that is 9 (or so) of Mike's "levels" beyond mine, but I'm very much looking forward to the experience. And I know my big Maggies will loooove all that power!!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Nov 2017, 10:45 pm
Yes exciting stuff. What I'm not liking is I haven't heard from Icepower today. They said they would let me know lead time "early next week" on Friday. Perhaps the saleman I've been dealing with isn't in the office today. He usually responds to emails quick. I haven't submitted the payment to Takachi yet. It's pending in my Paypal account. I wanted to 100% confirm lead time from Icepower first.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 12:09 am
Regarding lot 4, I'm not going to open it until I know what the long term supply forecast is looking like with these amp modules. I don't want to go over 30 day lead time on any lot delivery.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 12:41 am
I'm gonna start adding the connector options to the webshop. I don't have all of the nice pictures I want yet. But I'll get them in there now anyways.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 14 Nov 2017, 01:26 am
This thread is getting long. Any thoughts on starting a new one just for the upgrade options so what they are and their relative performance can be discussed separately?   I can see some debates on the merits of gold vs rhodium, etc.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 01:46 am
This thread is getting long. Any thoughts on starting a new one just for the upgrade options so what they are and their relative performance can be discussed separately?   I can see some debates on the merits of gold vs rhodium, etc.

Yeah I know but until I get my own circle I'm limited to posting in this thread according to the rules.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 01:49 am
For anyone just joining us all premium internal cable for the 1200AS2 amp is being supplied by Audiocircle member Dave C of Zenwave audio. If anyone is looking for some great external caables as well check out his website:

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/

And he will be around to answer any questions about sound differences between cables and connectors.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 14 Nov 2017, 02:00 am
I use Zenwave power cables and interconnects and cannot say enough about the improvements they've made to my system. Dave's wires in the 1200AS2 amp sounds to me like a marriage made in heaven.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 14 Nov 2017, 02:08 am
How much wire is in the amp?  Chassis is small and connections are close.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 02:38 am
How much wire is in the amp?  Chassis is small and connections are close.

Not much. Only a few inches.

Webshop is open for connectors and cables! Go choose your connectors and cables of choice and they will be what's used in your amps.

 https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 14 Nov 2017, 03:02 am
Mike, What is the base speaker cable?  By power cable do you mean the short run from the IEC to the module?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:04 am
Mike, What is the base speaker cable?  By power cable do you mean the short run from the IEC to the module?

Base means the stuff that comes for free with the amp. It's the longest run in the case all the way to the front. I ditched the base.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 14 Nov 2017, 03:30 am
Not much. Only a few inches.

Webshop is open for connectors and cables! Go choose your connectors and cables of choice and they will be what's used in your amps.

 https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Hi Mike,

For speaker binding posts I added a qty of 4 (2 pairs)or should I just have put 1 so you know which style we want?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:40 am
Hi Mike,

For speaker binding posts I added a qty of 4 (2 pairs)or should I just have put 1 so you know which style we want?

You only need 1 item of each for each amp. I had the Furutech binding posts wrong but corrected.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 14 Nov 2017, 03:44 am
You only need 1 item of each for each amp. I had the Furutech binding posts wrong but corrected.
My bad, I  corrected it but the items stay in the cart at secure check out, no transaction occurs on the payment page for $0.00
Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:53 am
My bad, I  corrected it but the items stay in the cart at secure check out, no transaction occurs on the payment page for $0.00
Thanks

Ahh I see that. Okay Maybe I'll charge 50 cents each then. See what happens.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:57 am
Okay I'm charging you $1 each for the cheap connectors and cables just to make it easy :) $5 more per amp. Best way to save that $5 is buy the premium components. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 14 Nov 2017, 04:06 am
I am a bit confused. If I just want the base amp (ordered in group 1) do I need to indicate RCA, terminals, etc or will the kit include everything I need without my adding anything else?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:19 am
You just order all the parts that you want.

Each amp needs:

1: Speaker cable
2: Analog input cable
3: Power cable
4: Binding posts
5: Analog input connectors

Add what ever you want of each. Mix and match what you like.

I just realized I forgot to add the cheap speaker cable. Hold tight I’ll add it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:26 am
Okay I think I got it finally. Who ever orders the $1 items I'll refund the $1 for each item. Because I told you they were included. But starting at lot 4 I'm just gonna charge the dollar.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 14 Nov 2017, 06:56 am
Dave if someone can only puck one upgrade item what do you suggest?  As a thought exercise ;)
Because the input is the beginning of the chain is the analog input connector the best bang for the buck?  because anything you lose at the beginning can't be regained by upgrades at the end of the chain like the binding post?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 14 Nov 2017, 01:41 pm
I just ordered the 5 base items for $5, which included the XLR connector. What if I want to add a 2nd base/ stock RCA connector not part of the original group buy price?

Also, looking at the front of the amp case, is the back panel AC power/ switch located as shown on the far right or opposite hand far left?  Thanks.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171296)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 14 Nov 2017, 02:53 pm
Dave if someone can only puck one upgrade item what do you suggest?  As a thought exercise ;)
Because the input is the beginning of the chain is the analog input connector the best bang for the buck?  because anything you lose at the beginning can't be regained by upgrades at the end of the chain like the binding post?

Yup, I'd upgrade the input first... Furutech XLR or RCA jacks w/ OCC silver/gold signal wiring will make a nice improvement and better bang for your buck. Output and binding posts make a difference but not quite as much of a difference and the parts cost a bit more.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:39 pm
I just ordered the 5 base items for $5, which included the XLR connector. What if I want to add a 2nd base/ stock RCA connector not part of the original group buy price?

Also, looking at the front of the amp case, is the back panel AC power/ switch located as shown on the far right or opposite hand far left?  Thanks.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171296)

I’ll add an option for additional standard connectors.

That was the original back panel. I revised it right after.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:43 pm
Well heard from Icepower. This is what I got in response to adding the 24 Lot 3 units to my 42 unit Lot 1-2 order.

“I definitely don’t think we’ll be able to get all 66 to you that quickly.  I’ll ask Maria to update your order.  I don’t think we’ll have clarity on when and how much we can ship until the end of the week.”

So you all know as much as me. I suppose there’s never going to be a faster way to get them than to order now. Waiting longer to order won’t speed things up. There’s no other source for 1200AS2 modules than Icepower. So I’m going to pay the Takachi invoice for all 66 cases.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 14 Nov 2017, 03:50 pm
Mike, other questions occurred to me. Even though my current preamps are both single ended, perhaps it might be good to preserve the balanced input option for future changes. Will the standard Cardas 64309 MXLR to FRCA adapter work ok with the XLR pin connections on the amp? How much (if any) sound degradation would occur if using adapters? I have very revealing speakers FWIW. Also, is the performance of the amp module better operating in balanced mode? Thanks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 03:55 pm
Yes you can use adapters. I can’t tell you if or how much audible degradation you’ll experience. The only way to find out is to compare to the RCA’s from me connected direct to the amp.  Generally balanced is better preforming. This goes for any amplifier.  But if you only have a single ended preamp you don’t have much of a choice.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 14 Nov 2017, 03:59 pm
Why not break your orders up into lots as you originally intended, so as to get the earliest adopters their product as soon as possible? Sounds like they could get you a batch of 20 or 40 sooner than the 66?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 14 Nov 2017, 04:03 pm
Mike, other questions occurred to me. Even though my current preamps are both single ended, perhaps it might be good to preserve the balanced input option for future changes. Will the standard Cardas 64309 MXLR to FRCA adapter work ok with the XLR pin connections on the amp? How much (if any) sound degradation would occur if using adapters? I have very revealing speakers FWIW. Also, is the performance of the amp module better operating in balanced mode? Thanks.

You can also get both and change them out, this would only take a few minutes. I think you'd definitely get some degradation if you're using top end ICs and upgraded input jacks/wiring. I also use a SE tube pre and I would definitely get the FT-903 RCA jacks over the XLRs + adapters.

Not that it's strictly necessary but you can also get input trafos for single ended ins that isolate and convert to balanced.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:04 pm
I will. If the additional 24 units from Lot 3 are going to slow down the 42 lot 1-2 units I will get the 42 units shipped first. I’m placing the order for all 66, but I’ll get them shipped to me as fast as I can. As long as I get them before the cases arrive that’s good enough.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:14 pm
Okay I’m going to charge $35 more for additional standard RCA or XLR connectors. This will also include the Mogami cable soldered to them with Furutech silver solder. As well as the amp connectors on the other end. So if you want a set of each just add 2 sets and I’ll invoice you the extra $34 after. I think that’s easiest.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 14 Nov 2017, 04:26 pm
I will. If the additional 24 units from Lot 3 are going to slow down the 42 lot 1-2 units I will get the 42 units shipped first. I’m placing the order for all 66, but I’ll get them shipped to me as fast as I can. As long as I get them before the cases arrive that’s good enough.
Are you concerned that they have problems fulfilling an order for 66 pieces? It's not like you are ordering 6000 pieces. Perhaps I am naive and thought ICEpower was a larger company and wouldn't have an issue building and shipping 66 units.
From their website: Since ICEpower’s establishment, we have shipped more than 100 million ICEpower channels to over 70 customers all over the world. Our revenues and profits have shown steady growth enabling us to undertake ambitious R&D projects
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:35 pm
Are you concerned that they have problems fulfilling an order for 66 pieces? It's not like you are ordering 6000 pieces. Perhaps I am naive and thought ICEpower was a larger company and wouldn't have an issue building and shipping 66 units.
From their website: Since ICEpower’s establishment, we have shipped more than 100 million ICEpower channels to over 70 customers all over the world. Our revenues and profits have shown steady growth enabling us to undertake ambitious R&D projects

They will be able to fill it, just don’t have a solid date on the lot 3 amps yet. Yes they are a big company, but this amp launch is massive and OEM’s have hammered them with an insane amount of orders. Only reason I’m even able to get in is because I’ve been on the list since January.

Even Hypex is out of stock on all MP series amps. Apple is a big company as well, but they run into the same issues with IPhones all the time. Best thing is to just get in on the queue.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jkelly on 14 Nov 2017, 04:43 pm
Okay I’m going to charge $35 more for additional standard RCA or XLR connectors. This will also include the Mogami cable soldered to them with Furutech silver solder. As well as the amp connectors on the other end. So if you want a set of each just add 2 sets and I’ll invoice you the extra $34 after. I think that’s easiest.

So just to be clear - for $35 more...
1. The amp will have both RCA and XLR connectors on the rear panel.
2. Will they both be live or will I have to go in and swap the input wires going to the amp board to activate either?
3. And to upgrade connectors - just add both higher quality connectors to the order.

TY!

Jeff
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:53 pm
So just to be clear - for $35 more...
1. The amp will have both RCA and XLR connectors on the rear panel.
2. Will they both be live or will I have to go in and swap the input wires going to the amp board to activate either?
3. And to upgrade connectors - just add both higher quality connectors to the order.

TY!

Jeff

No you won’t get a custom milled rear panel for $35 more. You’ll just get an additional set of input connectors with the wire and amp connectors soldered on. To swap it’s only a matter of removing 4 screws. 2 minute procedure.

For the high end ones you can add up to 2 sets per amp order. My low pricing is only for owners of this amp, so I can only deliver maximum of 2 premium sets per amp order.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 04:59 pm
Here’s what some others do to accommodate both RCA and XLR’s at the same time. Put a cheap switch in. But for me that nullifies using premium connectors to put a cheap Chinese switch in the path. Also if all you’ll ever use is 1 connector type, why would you want to pay for 2? Sure if they’re 20 cent connectors no big deal. But even my standard units are better than what you see on many $5000+ amps.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171303)






Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2gumby2 on 14 Nov 2017, 05:40 pm
Base means the stuff that comes for free with the amp. It's the longest run in the case all the way to the front. I ditched the base.
When you say you "ditched the base", what do you mean?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 05:49 pm
When you say you "ditched the base", what do you mean?

I started calling the base connectors standard instead because I was getting too many emails asking what base means. I think they thought it would add more bass to the sound :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 05:54 pm
Can everyone in lot 1-2-3 please get your connector and cable orders in ASAP. This way I can order all the parts and start terminating the cables.

Remember you'll need 5 items in your cart. 6 if you want both XLR and RCA.

1: Analog input cable
2: Speaker cable
3: Power cable
4: Binding posts
5: Analog input connectors (XLR, RCA or both)


https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 06:00 pm
If anyone has any questions they want answered privately in real time I have a chat box in the bottom right of my website. Messages pop up like texts on my phone. I take my phone everywhere.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 14 Nov 2017, 06:09 pm
Come on guys, don't abuse the live chat box with perverted questions about his sex life
I know you were all thinking it!
I caved and got the furutech gold RCAs.  these will be my first furutech!  I have some wbt that didn't impress me that much
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 06:17 pm
One caveat of the chat box is you must stay on the website to have the questions answered. If you just want to leave a message so I can respond via your email, use the contact box is the middle of my home page.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 06:20 pm
Come on guys, don't abuse the live chat box with perverted questions about his sex life
I know you were all thinking it!
I caved and got the furutech gold RCAs.  these will be my first furutech!  I have some wbt that didn't impress me that much

Great choice. I like WBT, but have always preferred Furutech.



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 06:47 pm
Hi guys,

I decided that starting with lot 4 I will no longer be offering this amp as a kit. Only assembled turnkey units for $200 more. I lined up a competent team for assembly duty. The support of answering questions about the assembly will end up eating up more of my time than just selling the amps complete. I need to focus on an outstanding level of customer service, and I can't spread myself too thin.

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 14 Nov 2017, 06:50 pm
Hi guys,

I decided that starting with lot 4 I will no longer be offering this amp as a kit. Only assembled turnkey units for $200 more. I lined up a competent team for assembly duty.

Does that imply that it will come with a warranty?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: CurtisIIX on 14 Nov 2017, 06:51 pm
Checking out the options right now.

Quick question:
What's the wire gauge on the upgraded Neotech UP-OCC copper speaker cable?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 07:09 pm
Does that imply that it will come with a warranty?

Yes I will beat Icepower's 3 year warranty with the Mivera Audio standard 10 year warranty. Also 100% original purchase price credit with trade up to any other product in our portfolio. This trade up policy expires 10 years after original purchase date.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 07:10 pm
Checking out the options right now.

Quick question:
What's the wire gauge on the upgraded Neotech UP-OCC copper speaker cable?

14. It's the biggest that will fit in the amp connectors. We are talking a few inches of cable so it's like 1 gauge over a long distance.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 14 Nov 2017, 07:14 pm

If anyone wants to read up more on the Iceedge, order the free Audioxpress subscription. It’s an awesome mag to have a subscription to. I’ve been a subscriber for 22 years now.

http://www.audioxpress.com/news/stay-on-the-edge-of-audio-technology-with-audioxpress-april-2017

Thanks for posting more photos of your work and this link.  When I follow the link it prompts for payment.  I remember reading this for free.  Any idea where the free subscription went?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 14 Nov 2017, 07:17 pm
Mike,

You've done a marvelous job helping us and also selling product - I appreciate it.

Dave/Mike, Is there an in between binding post option?  The Furutech $180 option is kind of a big step but I understand if it doesn't make sense since there are 4.
From what I see on Furutech site for options, it looks like you are making us a nice deal and most everything else is more expensive.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 14 Nov 2017, 07:20 pm
Yes I will beat Icepower's 3 year warranty with the Mivera Audio standard 10 year warranty. Also 100% original purchase price credit with trade up to any other product in our portfolio.

Sounds like a good deal. In the event something were to happen to you, like an accident, or a health issue, or you decide to back to the oil patch etc, how many people are part of the Mivera Audio organization who will be there to honor the 10 year warranty?

Would this warranty be applicable to those taking the DIY approach or just those who buy a fully assembled unit?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 14 Nov 2017, 07:29 pm
So in your updated image below, is the power switch on the left as viewed from the outside back panel? Or viewed from inside the back panel where power switch is on the left looking from front of case (& is typical for most electronics)? [I'm trying to figure my cable lengths/ availability/ management in advance of amp arrival].  Thanks.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171305)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 07:46 pm
Thanks for posting more photos of your work and this link.  When I follow the link it prompts for payment.  I remember reading this for free.  Any idea where the free subscription went?

No problem. Sorry I was confusing Audioxpress with their sister mag voicecoil. They have a free offer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 07:47 pm
Mike,

You've done a marvelous job helping us and also selling product - I appreciate it.

Dave/Mike, Is there an in between binding post option?  The Furutech $180 option is kind of a big step but I understand if it doesn't make sense since there are 4.
From what I see on Furutech site for options, it looks like you are making us a nice deal and most everything else is more expensive.


Thanks!

Sorry I can't offer too many options. For 1 all of the cutouts are different, and it costs too much if I'm ordering very small volumes of connectors to pass on great value to you guys.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 07:51 pm
Sounds like a good deal. In the event something were to happen to you, like an accident, or a health issue, or you decide to back to the oil patch etc, how many people are part of the Mivera Audio organization who will be there to honor the 10 year warranty?

Would this warranty be applicable to those taking the DIY approach or just those who buy a fully assembled unit?

There's several people involved with the Mivera Audio team. And as demand requires I can hire as many as I need. However my strong industry ties to many industry OEM's will allow me to outsource any work I need done to professionals who have proven to be competent. I've been in business for over 20 years. I know how running a business works. I am long finished with the oilfield, so no worry of me ever going back there. Oil's dead IMO.

As I've already explained earlier in this thread, the DIY unit's have the Icepower 3 year warranty. However I will honor the full 10 year 100% original purchase price trade up to the DIY unit's as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 07:53 pm
So in your updated image below, is the power switch on the left as viewed from the outside back panel? Or viewed from inside the back panel where power switch is on the left looking from front of case (& is typical for most electronics)? [I'm trying to figure my cable lengths/ availability/ management in advance of amp arrival].  Thanks.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171305)

That's the viewpoint from the rear. The same side the power connection on the 1200AS is.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 14 Nov 2017, 08:14 pm
So if we've already purchased an amp in lots 1,2 & 3 and want a standard amp with no upgrades, we still have to go to your site and purchase the $1 parts?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 08:16 pm
So if we've already purchased an amp in lots 1,2 & 3 and want a standard amp with no upgrades, we still have to go to your site and purchase the $1 parts?

Yes but once all the dust settles and I review all the connector orders I'll refund the $5 back to everyone who wants the standard connectors.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 09:05 pm
Yes but once all the dust settles and I review all the connector orders I'll refund the $5 back to everyone who wants the standard connectors.

1 last lot 3 amp in black left in my webshop! Who's gonna take it?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 14 Nov 2017, 09:10 pm
Just ordered all the upgraded parts, since I am getting 2 amps I just doubled everything correct?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 09:37 pm
Just ordered all the upgraded parts, since I am getting 2 amps I just doubled everything correct?

I emailed you on this already. But I think you over-ordered. You only need a quantity of 1 of each item for each amplifier. This means 1 order of binding posts means 4 binding posts. 1 order of XLR or RCA;s means 2 XLR's or RCA's.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 14 Nov 2017, 09:48 pm
I have ordered two stereo but they will be used as monoblocks. So I will order 1 set of upgraded parts and 2 sets of basic (which should be included in the price). Will this work ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 09:49 pm
I have ordered two stereo but they will be used as monoblocks. So I will order 1 set of upgraded parts and 2 sets of basic (which should be included in the price). Will this work ?

Edit: Sorry my last post was incorrect. The premium connectors are an upgrade price. So you no longer get the free set for 1 of the amps if you upgraded for 1 of the amps.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 09:57 pm
Just an FYI, the connectors in my webshop aren't for just anyone who has a DIY project and wants connectors cheaper than anywhere else will sell them. They are for amp clients only to use in the amps they ordered.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 10:46 pm
Lot 3 is officially sold out!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 14 Nov 2017, 11:15 pm
I'm so unsure of my connector choices that I'm posting here hoping for a little feedback.

I just 'settled' for the Furutech gold RCA inputs, but I keep second guessing that decision. I keep wondering if the Furutech XLR connector would be more appropriate. Anyone wanna tell me what they're going for?

Here's my add-on list:

FT807G binding posts
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold input cable
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold speaker cable
Furutech S55N power cable

I know. I'm kinda going overboard, but the assembled amp price is so low that I don't mind adding a little extra spice.

Thanks....if you don't want to add more load on this already long thread, pm me your response. [Although, it'd be nice to know what others are thinking.]

Many thanks to Mike for doing this!

Michael
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Nov 2017, 11:17 pm
Okay I think everyone has been refunded for the standard cables. Those who ordered 2 sets of standard RCA's or XLR's, You will owe me the difference between the subtracted standard components and the $35. I'll bill you at some point.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 15 Nov 2017, 12:14 am
I'm so unsure of my connector choices that I'm posting here hoping for a little feedback.

I just 'settled' for the Furutech gold RCA inputs, but I keep second guessing that decision. I keep wondering if the Furutech XLR connector would be more appropriate. Anyone wanna tell me what they're going for?

Here's my add-on list:

FT807G binding posts
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold input cable
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold speaker cable
Furutech S55N power cable

I know. I'm kinda going overboard, but the assembled amp price is so low that I don't mind adding a little extra spice.

Thanks....if you don't want to add more load on this already long thread, pm me your response. [Although, it'd be nice to know what others are thinking.]

Many thanks to Mike for doing this!

Michael

Michael, I ordered the exact same wiring and connectors you ordered. The greater wear factor with gold vs. rhodium seems a rather small issue seeing that the only time I ever remove the cables is when I clean connections every six months or so. All my cables have Eichmann RCA's so there isn't much metal to metal wear. I also ordered a set of the base XLR inputs and wiring just to have that option available should the need arise in the future.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Nov 2017, 12:30 am
I'm so unsure of my connector choices that I'm posting here hoping for a little feedback.

I just 'settled' for the Furutech gold RCA inputs, but I keep second guessing that decision. I keep wondering if the Furutech XLR connector would be more appropriate. Anyone wanna tell me what they're going for?

Here's my add-on list:

FT807G binding posts
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold input cable
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold speaker cable
Furutech S55N power cable

I know. I'm kinda going overboard, but the assembled amp price is so low that I don't mind adding a little extra spice.

Thanks....if you don't want to add more load on this already long thread, pm me your response. [Although, it'd be nice to know what others are thinking.]

Many thanks to Mike for doing this!

Michael

The input jacks and wire have about the same effect as an interconnect cable, so it can make a really big difference. Lots of people upgrade ICs because it's easy but few upgrade jacks and internal wire as it's work... this is a good opportunity to get wire and connectors that are the same quality as the best IC cables already installed in your amp.

As far as RCA vs XLR, it really depends on what's upstream, if it's balanced then go with XLR jacks and XLR IC cables, if SE then go RCA. If it were me I'd buy both so it can adapt easily to either.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 15 Nov 2017, 12:52 am
For XLR, is Furutech FT-786F the Rodium version ? Do they have a Rodium and Gold just like the RCA ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 15 Nov 2017, 01:03 am
I just estimated the upgrade cost - if one has to upgrade everything, the upgrade alone costs 70% of the Amp price  :roll:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Nov 2017, 01:13 am
I just estimated the upgrade cost - if one has to upgrade everything, the upgrade alone costs 70% of the Amp price  :roll:

I don't see the issue? The pricier parts are optional, nobody is forcing them on you. Many amps that cost 5-figures don't use parts as nice as the ones offered and I'm sure you'll see commercial amps using the exact same amp module for far more money using much lower end parts.

The XLR jacks are not available in gold, they are rhodium only.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 01:18 am
I just estimated the upgrade cost - if one has to upgrade everything, the upgrade alone costs 70% of the Amp price  :roll:

I can always charge you 5x more for the amps to balance it out :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 15 Nov 2017, 01:31 am
I can always charge you 5x more for the amps to balance it out :)

A better balance would be to charge 1/5th for the upgrades  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Nov 2017, 01:34 am
A better balance would be to charge 1/5th for the upgrades  :lol:

I think paying 5x for the amp and 1/5th for the upgrades could work out if that's what you want...  :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 15 Nov 2017, 01:39 am
Then the upgrades would seem like a bargain!

Well, actually, if you break the parts cost down - it is allready a bargain....
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 01:47 am
A better balance would be to charge 1/5th for the upgrades  :lol:

Nobody is obligated to buy any of the premium options. If they can be sourced elsewhere for less I'd jump on it. Don't forget about the termination of all the  connectors for the amp, and soldering to the connectors with Furutech silver solder. You'll need this crimp tool for the speaker connections:

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/jst-sales-america-inc/WC-930/455-1911-ND/1468306

And this one for the inputs:

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/jst-sales-america-inc/YRS-241/455-2047-ND/1634788
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 01:58 am
Paypal made damn near as much as I did with their transaction fees for lots 1-3. I think they're the ones in the right business!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 02:34 am
Got a firm date on case shipping. Looks like everyone will be getting a nice Xmas present.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171335)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 15 Nov 2017, 02:59 am
I think paying 5x for the amp and 1/5th for the upgrades could work out if that's what you want...  :P

Guys, you are implying the amp could sell for $3500+ yet how many people have heard the amp and compared it other amps in that price range and higher? I placed my order however my expectations are pretty high now. I have owned a number of amps from tubes to hybrid to solid state including Class A, A/B and D ranging in price from $500-$5000. Not all were great values, some exceeded my expectations in sound, build quality and reliability and some were duds. Time will tell and I hope I have to eat my words.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 03:04 am
Guys, you are implying the amp could sell for $3500+ yet how many people have heard the amp and compared it other amps in that price range and higher? I placed my order however my expectations are pretty high now. I have owned a number of amps from tubes to hybrid to solid state including Class A, A/B and D ranging in price from $500-$5000. Not all were great values, some exceeded my expectations in sound, build quality and reliability and some were duds. Time will tell and I hope I have to eat my words.

$3500 is the typical price of amps using the 700AS, and the cheapest internal cables/connectors you can find. Not even as good as my free options. Considering the 1200 costs over double what the 700 costs, I think $3500 would be a bargain if someone shopping for a 700 based amp could get a 1200 based amp instead.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 03:22 am
Before this 1200as, the 700as was bar none the best Icepower ever made. The 700AS runs rings around the amp in this unit:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/bel-canto-ref1000m-monoblock-power-amplifier-specifications

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 03:40 am
Deleted




Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 04:11 am
This direct seller offers the best deal I've ever seen on an amp using 700's:

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/legacy-audio-powerbloc2-dual-mono-amplifier-preview

But as a direct seller they cut out the distributor and dealer margins. This is why they can offer this amp for so little.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 15 Nov 2017, 04:17 am
Tried to order.  Guess I missed the boat.  If anyone doesn’t want their DIY kit, I will buy it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 04:26 am
Tried to order.  Guess I missed the boat.  If anyone doesn’t want their DIY kit, I will buy it.

Join the club. I've gotten several emails from folks who are disappointed they missed lot 3. Lot 4 probably won't be until after the Xmas season. Once Icepower catches up, I have a goal of 2 week lead times on 24 unit lots. As time goes on, efficiency will improve.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Norman Tracy on 15 Nov 2017, 04:43 am
Any reason you chose to crowdfund on AudioCircle rather than Indiegogo or Kickstarter?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 04:49 am
Any reason you chose to crowdfund on AudioCircle rather than Indiegogo or Kickstarter?

I figured there was more folks interested in amplifiers on Audiocircle. I wouldn't really call this crowdfunding. In typical crowdfunding people are basically donating to companies to develop new products, with small rewards offered as gifts for the donation. This product is already developed. People are just buying it with a lead time for delivery. This is very typical in audio when folks order custom products from manufacturers. Only Lead time is usually much longer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 15 Nov 2017, 07:13 am
Nobody is obligated to buy any of the premium options. If they can be sourced elsewhere for less I'd jump on it.

I obligated myself to buy my upgrades. I'm betting I'll pat myself on the back because of it. Hell, I might even give myself a new DAC as a bonus!

"Damn fine effort, Michael! Go out and treat yourself to a nice new DAC."
"Wow! Thanks, Michael."
"Won't our wife be upset?"
"Heck, no. We've already offered to buy her a new car, right?"
"Oh, yeah. This is gonna be great."

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 08:45 am
Finally yesterday I got the sound quality I was looking for years ago after solving my serious problems with electronic electric noise and RF/EMI interference (and DC on mains too). This was when this very great offer appeared, which only hindered me from living in Spain (you know shipping, taxes and taxes).

Again I insist on the need to use star quad cables, the brand there each one.

Rhodium is more resistant than gold but it is a worse conductor. If one is not going to be exchanging wires every day I do not see the need for rhodium. By the way, to clean the connectors better not to use alcohol.

Bye.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 08:52 am
Maty you would probably love the Mogami star quad option for my amp inputs then!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 08:53 am
Great news guys! I got an email from Denmark! :)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171358)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 15 Nov 2017, 10:06 am
Awesome!!!  :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 15 Nov 2017, 12:42 pm
mresseguie I feel bad for leading you down the path to amp addiction :P
first I told you to get the folsom amp, it's amazing because it sounds great and is super lower power!
now I'm with you on getting this class d amp with 600 watts per channel :P
I''m like Tim Meadows character in Walk Hard the Dewey Cox story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdq4Llr-K-s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdq4Llr-K-s)

Maty what did you do to finally fix your issue with dc offset on your ac mains?  I thought your quad serial connected atl hifi dc blocker fixed it?

also, yay all 66 amp modules are shipping this month!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Samac on 15 Nov 2017, 12:53 pm
Been watching this thread with great interest. With the advancements in class-d modules this is a great way to offering outstanding sound, very nice cosmetics and great value. The à la carte upgrade path is very cool.

I'm really looking forward to feedback/listening impresions from owners.

This approach has the potential to put great sound into reach for so many. I wish you continued success, bavmike and hope to be able to get one of these amps in the near future. :thumb:

Cheers,

Scott
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 15 Nov 2017, 01:02 pm
Great news re: Icepower board 11/27 delivery date, not so great re: Case 12/21 shipping date during busy holiday (I assume from Japan). Looks like 4 wks. may stretch out to 6-8 wks. from order placement.  I know... patience is a virtue, & good things come to those who wait.  8)

Are you shipping everything from your locale (British Columbia I believe?), or are some items (like cases) shipped independently to customers?



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 15 Nov 2017, 01:04 pm
I cannot join the club as I won’t buy a preassmbled one and I don’t want to spend an extra $200 for pieces I would have to take apart anyway.  I know that makes me sound like an idiot, but I won’t like the wiring.  I am not saying I do it better.  I likely don’t, but I have my ways from doing tube amps and would likely want to stick to that.  Heck, I would buy a plain board alone if I could. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 01:49 pm
Great news re: Icepower board 11/27 delivery date, not so great re: Case 12/21 shipping date during busy holiday (I assume from Japan). Looks like 4 wks. may stretch out to 6-8 wks. from order placement.  I know... patience is a virtue, & good things come to those who wait.  8)

Are you shipping everything from your locale (British Columbia I believe?), or are some items (like cases) shipped independently to customers?

Yeah it would be nice for a shorter case lead time. But Takachi shuts down for the holiday season and have more orders backed up right now than usual. But on the bright side historically they’ve always shipped earlier than the quoted leadtime. I’ve even been quoted 4 weeks before and was shipped in 2. Not saying that will happen this time but there’s a chance anyways.

Yes I need to unpack the boxes and repackage with all the parts. Boxes come with all different components in each box.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 01:52 pm
Reminds me of that book I read “The paradox of choice”. When you offer people choice, even if it’s far more premium choice than 99% offer, they can be less satisfied than if they had no choice. Nobody ever says anything when manufacturers who charge $10000+ for amps use the cheapest bulk wire they can find at Digikey. But when you only have choice of premium options, lookout, you’re gonna have some dissatisfied people. :) I’ve never once heard anyone discuss the internal wiring Pass Labs uses.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171390)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 02:30 pm
Deleted
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 02:41 pm
Deleted
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 03:13 pm
Maty this is all interesting stuff you’re sharing. But this is already a very long thread that’s only going to get longer. So if we stick to the topic of Icepower 1200as amps it will be easier to navigate through.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 15 Nov 2017, 03:15 pm
Reminds me of that book I read “The paradox of choice”. When you offer people choice, even if it’s far more premium choice than 99% offer, they can be less satisfied than if they had no choice. Nobody ever says anything when manufacturers who charge $10000+ for amps use the cheapest bulk wire they can find at Digikey. But when you only have choice of premium options, lookout, you’re gonna have some dissatisfied people. :) I’ve never once heard anyone discuss the internal wiring Pass Labs uses.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171390)

You are so correct about that. A plethora of choices leads to consumer dissatisfaction and confusion. It's not just Pass Labs that uses such wiring. I've seen similar inexpensive wiring in innumerable electronics sold at elevated prices. This will be an interesting experiment in seeing what will be possible at such a low price. As an aside, the reviews I have read of Bel Canto's new 600m amplifiers all seem to imply that there is little to no additional additional engineering above and beyond Hypex's stock amp modules and power supplies. Previous iterations of Bel Canto amplifiers made a point of their proprietary input buffers to voice the amps (as Mike mentioned manufacturers do for a "house sound.") When the 600m's came out, I was interested in purchasing a pair of them. However, all the available information I could find made it sound as if one was basically paying $5000 for a pair of Hypex amps and power supplies stuffed in a beautifully crafted pair of cases. I don't discount the value of aesthetics and packaging but the price/value ratio just seemed a bit less balanced than I'd prefer. That said, if this amplifier project pans out and meets expectations, I have a hard time understanding how it's commercially viable at the price point we're paying. Mike's undertaken a project that I suspect has turned to something with an inadequate margin for the time investment he's putting in.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 03:29 pm
What makes it commercially viable is bulk orders and direct sales. I’ll never pay for professional reviews, and I’ll never travel to sound shows to demo. My operating overhead is very low. But you’re right when using the Sears sales model in an Amazon world this certainly wouldn’t be commercially viable at this price point.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 03:47 pm
Maty what did you do to finally fix your issue with dc offset on your ac mains?  I thought your quad serial connected atl hifi dc blocker fixed it?

Better the answer in a new thread.

How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.

www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153802

Mike, I feel the discomfort.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 15 Nov 2017, 03:54 pm
Photon46 if you have to talk Mike out of doing this could you at least wait till after we get our amps. :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rklein on 15 Nov 2017, 04:07 pm
This may have been explained earlier.  If so, sorry for asking...

Does entering "1" in the quantity section on the website constitute a pair or does "2" need to be entered in regards to the connection parts.

Thx,

Randy
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Nov 2017, 04:12 pm
This may have been explained earlier.  If so, sorry for asking...

Does entering "1" in the quantity section on the website constitute a pair or does "2" need to be entered in regards to the connection parts.

Thx,

Randy

1 per amp...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rklein on 15 Nov 2017, 04:18 pm
Thx Dave. :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 04:32 pm
Because of the high demand for this amp, I’m going to start taking deposits for Lot 4. Lot 4 will be the beginning of our completely assembled amps. Pricing will be $900 for silver and $940 for black. These units will come with a transferable 10 year warranty, and 100% original purchase price credit with trade up to other future products in our portfolio. This trade up offer will expire 10 years from your original purchase date.

Please note this Lot likely won’t ship until some time in January. But I’ll only be taking deposits for now. I’ll only decide to complete the orders and order parts if I have a clear leadtime of all parts from the suppliers, and all deposit holders approve of the leadtime. This will be a 24 piece Lot.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 04:43 pm
Lot 4 deposits are officially open:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop

And don't forget about the 8 piece lot#1 for the 6 channel amp. That amp will now be $2100 fully assembled.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 05:34 pm
Better the answer in a new thread.

How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.

www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153802

Mike, I feel the discomfort.

Thanks Maty!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 07:09 pm
Been watching this thread with great interest. With the advancements in class-d modules this is a great way to offering outstanding sound, very nice cosmetics and great value. The à la carte upgrade path is very cool.

I'm really looking forward to feedback/listening impresions from owners.

This approach has the potential to put great sound into reach for so many. I wish you continued success, bavmike and hope to be able to get one of these amps in the near future. :thumb:

Cheers,

Scott

Thanks Scott!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 15 Nov 2017, 07:23 pm
As I noted, my statement is not one based in fact, it is based in my own rationality.  I have not cited any empirical evidence as I do not believe it exists.  I wish I had seen the post regarding the buy sooner so I could have jumped in.  My issue is not that I don't believe it would sound good, I would want to rewire it because of my experience dealing with weird issues in the past and my thoughts on how it should be done.  For instance, I have heard the pass amps before and know they sound fine.  That wiring makes my skin crawl.  It is what it is and we all have our own things/issues.

Shawn
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Nov 2017, 07:45 pm
As I noted, my statement is not one based in fact, it is based in my own rationality.  I have not cited any empirical evidence as I do not believe it exists.  I wish I had seen the post regarding the buy sooner so I could have jumped in.  My issue is not that I don't believe it would sound good, I would want to rewire it because of my experience dealing with weird issues in the past and my thoughts on how it should be done.  For instance, I have heard the pass amps before and know they sound fine.  That wiring makes my skin crawl.  It is what it is and we all have our own things/issues.

Shawn

I'd do the same, I like my SE tube preamp and would spend some $ on nice SE>BAL input trafos.

I'd guess Mike could give you a unit without the wiring done, but you'd need to use the Molex crimp tools and the i/o wiring is very short anyways.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 15 Nov 2017, 08:42 pm
Mike,
   Will there be a video or diagram showing the assembly process? 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 08:44 pm
Mike,
   Will there be a video or diagram showing the assembly process?


I was thinking photos would be enough. It’s really very simple and self explanatory. All wires will be pre-terminated and soldered.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 15 Nov 2017, 08:46 pm
What tools will be needed for assembly?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 08:53 pm
What tools will be needed for assembly?

A T10 Torx screwdriver, and a couple Allen keys. I forget the sizes. I’ll let you know.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 09:37 pm
Well looks like I’m going to need to hold off on Lot 4. The head Icepower sales team is concerned with my price point and we need to talk Monday and see if using this sales model to get these great amps out to you guys the most efficient way possible will be in their best interests. So until then, the future is uncertain. Regarding the first 66 units, nothing has changed. All is good.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 09:49 pm
If they think about it a bit, your initiative is a great amplifier of the product. From the fourth lot they are assembled products and with a guarantee, so there should be nothing to object.

Well yes, you are leaving in evidence to others and their immense profit margins.

Is like The Emperor's New Clothes tale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

Quote
"The Emperor's New Clothes" (Danish: Kejserens nye Klæder) is a short tale written by Danish author Hans Christian Andersen, about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent. When the emperor parades before his subjects in his new clothes, no one dares to say that they do not see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as "unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent". Finally, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!".

You are the child.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Nov 2017, 09:57 pm
OK,  My kit is officially for sale.  Bids start at $12,000 USD plus shipping and handling.  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 09:57 pm
If they think about it a bit, your initiative is a great amplifier of the product. From the fourth lot they are products assembled and with a guarantee, so there should be nothing to object.

Well yes, you are leaving in evidence to others and their immense profit margins.

Is like The Emperor's New Clothes tale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

The problem isn't my product. The problem is no other established OEM they currently deal with is able to compete with this pricing. The only way it would make sense for Icepower to back me over their other OEM's is if I could move more volume of product than all of them combined. And if my efficient distribution model can't yield me a competitive advantage, then it's not an venture I'm interested in pursuing further. So we will see how things go. Personally I think this industry needs to step into the information age. 1980 was a long time ago. If need be I'll stick to my 100% OEM work and stay out of the public eye.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 15 Nov 2017, 09:59 pm
Well looks like I’m going to need to hold off on Lot 4. The head Icepower sales team is concerned with my price point and we need to talk Monday and see if using this sales model to get these great amps out to you guys the most efficient way possible will be in their best interests. So until then, the future is uncertain. Regarding the first 66 units, nothing has changed. All is good.

Not surprising. Iam sure their high volume clients (ie commercial amp makers) have noted what is happening here and put pressure on them to stop this. All speculation of course.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Nov 2017, 10:06 pm
Other brands have minimum retail pricing, there is one particular amp module that has a $9900 minimum retail price for the complete amp and it probably won't be as good as this one.

I think it's likely we will see some disruptive products in the near future... DACs that compete with MSB for 4 figures, D-amps that compete with high-$ A/B for 1/10th the price, machine made cables that will be better than anything that can be made by hand and also 1/10th the price of the high-$ brands. Interesting times...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 15 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm
And there is another problem, very serious for the industry, if others confirm what you say about the sound quality of the product, which is disruptive.

Je, we said the same!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Nov 2017, 10:08 pm
Didn't NCore regulate MSRP on products built with certain amp modules?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 10:10 pm
Didn't NCore regulate MSRP on products built with certain amp modules?

Well whining competitors phoned up Hypex complaining about Nord's pricing. So they made him raise it. Seems like he has the market cornered on the MP unit's now though. But regarding the NC-1200 they set the MSRP at a minimum. I wasn't told that if I decided to use these amps they I couldn't offer an competitive advantage.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 15 Nov 2017, 10:13 pm
Just raise your assembled amp price to $6000 and then have an order option to remove the $5000 "custom high end buffer input module" you design for the amp at time of order for those that don't mind an amp with the lesser performance.  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 10:14 pm
Not surprising. Iam sure their high volume clients (ie commercial amp makers) have noted what is happening here and put pressure on them to stop this. All speculation of course.

Well I knew it was only a matter of time. Hence the buying in lots and securing product before commitment. But at the end of the day my real hope was to modernize the way audio gear is distributed. This same model will work with 1000 products.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Nov 2017, 10:15 pm
Just raise your assembled amp price to $6000 and then have an order option to remove the $5000 "custom high end buffer input module" you design for the amp at time of order for those that don't mind an amp with the lesser performance.  :lol:

Hey great idea!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: *Scotty* on 15 Nov 2017, 10:48 pm
This may have already been covered in an earlier post but what is the input sensitivity, ie, X amount of volts in equals full power output in watts? Also what is the amplifier's gain in dB?
Thank you.
Scotty
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 15 Nov 2017, 10:55 pm
Input sensitivity fin = 1 kHz, Po = 1200 W / 4 Ohm, 5.0 Vp, 3.54 Vrms

Gain: 25.8 dB
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 16 Nov 2017, 12:13 am
If they think about it a bit, your initiative is a great amplifier of the product. From the fourth lot they are assembled products and with a guarantee, so there should be nothing to object.

Well yes, you are leaving in evidence to others and their immense profit margins.

Is like The Emperor's New Clothes tale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

You are the child.


I don't think "immense profit margins' is a fair or objective way to characterize the pricing of audio equipment using the same modules at a higher price point. This project is predicated on an entirely different business model than companies like PS Audio, Bel Canto, Jeff Rowland, etc. operate under. Advertising, trade shows, dealer/distributor percentages of the sales price, all that stuff leaves far less for a manufacturer than you'd imagine unless you've been in business yourself. No one forces anyone to buy audio equipment, it is up to the consumer to educate themselves and determine their personal value scale. If an audio business stays in business for many years, obviously enough consumers felt that the products delivered a reasonable value. Those of us who chose to take a gamble on a new product marketed this way will hopefully be sucessfully rewarded and if so, Mike will hopefully figure out a way to integrate this into a business plan that's a win/win for himself, customers, and the manufacturer. Many consumers would not be willing to take on the element of speculative risk that we have though. For them, they pay more for a "surer" thing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 12:41 am
Yes these manufacturers aren’t really making a killing. They are just using the same system to get products to market as Sears did. This is why Sears is going under.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 16 Nov 2017, 12:44 am
And a lot of consumers have been burned by this business model as well. Anyone here a victim of the LH Audio Kickstarter campaigns? Also, Vapor Audio anyone?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 16 Nov 2017, 12:48 am
Well said
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 12:52 am
And a lot of consumers have been burned by this business model as well. Anyone here a victim of the LH Audio Kickstarter campaigns? Also, Vapor Audio anyone?

A lot of people have been burned by many business models. What’s risky is funding the development of a product that hasn’t been engineered yet. In this case all parts are already engineered and it’s very straightforward. Icepower has done extensive testing over years  to ensure the 1200as is market ready. Takachi has been making cases for over 40 years and has the process down like clockwork. Furutech, Neutrik, Mogami and Neotech have proven connectors and cables.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 16 Nov 2017, 12:52 am
Mike is selling a module from IcePower. It's a real thing.

There's a level of trust involved that he's a stand-up guy, and opinions will differ on exactly how great the 1200AS is, but at this price, that's moot. It's the best and most powerful module they've ever made and it's based on their new IceEdge tech. It's certainly a great offer he's made and I'm glad I took him up on it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 16 Nov 2017, 12:56 am
And a lot of consumers have been burned by this business model as well. Anyone here a victim of the LH Audio Kickstarter campaigns? Also, Vapor Audio anyone?

I did fall for that Lily drone nonsense.
Mike has been doing this for a while and has a good reputation regarding integrity. Otherwise a colourful character!  :D

Since hearing about this amp I have been doing more comparisons between my Nord Oneup and Mike's custom NC500 amp. The Nord is a fine amp, but Mikes NC500 is really on another level. If this ICEPower amp has similar or superior performance then the "66" are very lucky
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 12:57 am
Mike is selling a module from IcePower. It's a real thing.

There's a level of trust involved that he's a stand-up guy, and opinions will differ on exactly how great the 1200AS is, but at this price, that's moot. It's the best and most powerful module they've ever made and it's based on their new IceEdge tech. It's certainly a great offer he's made and I'm glad I took him up on it.

Yes at this price point amps from their old collection would be a bargain. Icepower isn’t foolish enough to spend millions over many years to make an inferior product than what they offered in the past.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 16 Nov 2017, 01:00 am
And I’m one of the Lot 2 customers, so I’m not trolling here. And the reason I took a risk is because yes it’s an already engineered product from a very reputable company and doesn’t take much to assemble. Not a big risk, only in terms of system synergy. But I just wanted to make a stand that all business models have a time and a place. And all have their risks and vulnerabilities as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 01:01 am
There’s a chance that I don’t even do a lot 4 at all. As I mentioned before making this thread, I don’t think standalone amps are the future. It was only by selling it with this method that it actually made sense. So we will see. Might be a better solution to incorporate this amp into a building block of a much bigger system. This way I’m not directly competing with anyone. Because nobody offers anything competitive.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 01:04 am
And I’m one of the Lot 2 customers, so I’m not trolling here. And the reason I took a risk is because yes it’s an already engineered product from a very reputable company and doesn’t take much to assemble. Not a big risk, only in terms of system synergy. But I just wanted to make a stand that all business models have a time and a place. And all have their risks and vulnerabilities as well.

Yes you lose more in resale value the minute you walk out of a brick and mortar shop with a similar amp than the cost of this entire amp. And that’s a guarantee, not just a chance.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2gumby2 on 16 Nov 2017, 01:09 am
And a lot of consumers have been burned by this business model as well. Anyone here a victim of the LH Audio Kickstarter campaigns? Also, Vapor Audio anyone?
I don't want this thread to get highjacked, but since Vapor Audio seems to be mentioned in a negative light I would like to speak up. I purchased some Aurora speakers from Vapor Audio and had an excellent buying experience. Ryan, the owner, did a great job of getting the speakers shipped to Japan when I was living there and they have been the most satisfying speakers I have ever owned.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 01:32 am
I don't want this thread to get highjacked, but since Vapor Audio seems to be mentioned in a negative light I would like to speak up. I purchased some Aurora speakers from Vapor Audio and had an excellent buying experience. Ryan, the owner, did a great job of getting the speakers shipped to Japan when I was living there and they have been the most satisfying speakers I have ever owned.


Coming from a 25 year background of building speakers, I have always admired the Vapor designs. Some people just bite off more than they can chew at times. Custom speakers are a pretty time consuming undertaking. Much more man hours involved than buying ready made modules and having a few holes machined in ready made cases.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 16 Nov 2017, 01:52 am
There’s a chance that I don’t even do a lot 4 at all. As I mentioned before making this thread, I don’t think standalone amps are the future. It was only by selling it with this method that it actually made sense. So we will see. Might be a better solution to incorporate this amp into a building block of a much bigger system. This way I’m not directly competing with anyone. Because nobody offers anything competitive.

I was in the process of signing up for an assembled amp in lot 4 - the web page shows that deposits for the 24 piece lot #4 are open. Based on your statement above will you not be accepting deposits for lot 4 at this time, or can someone get on that list now in case you decide to proceed with it? Thanks

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 02:01 am
Here’s my last set of stacked Baltic birch speakers. I built them for beta testing active speaker electronics.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171409)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171410)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171411)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171412)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171413)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171414)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171415)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171416)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171417)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171418)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171419)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 02:02 am
I was in the process of signing up for an assembled amp in lot 4 - the web page shows that deposits for the 24 piece lot #4 are open. Based on your statement above will you not be accepting deposits for lot 4 at this time, or can someone get on that list now in case you decide to proceed with it? Thanks

I will wait after my conversation with Icepower next Monday to decide. If you want to leave a deposit, there will be time to fill 24 units if I decide to open Lot 4.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 16 Nov 2017, 02:06 am
If you get the word for a lot 4 I definitely want on the list
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Nov 2017, 02:14 am
TOUR TOUR TOUR

I have been fooled before.  :cry:  Amps others thought were great were a big dud with my speakers.  This is especially true of Class D which I really want to love for several reasons.
There was only one badass tour!  Well, 2 of them actually.   :green: 


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105395.0


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108239.0


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0


AND only one badass amp case DIY group buy.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79902.msg762665#msg762665

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 02:14 am
Sounds good. I had to refund a couple Lot 3 deposits as well because they were too busy to check their emails in the fast moving frenzy. Also 3-4 more others waiting.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 16 Nov 2017, 02:20 am
I am in group 1.  I gott ask - Did you ever anticipate this much response?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 02:22 am
I am in group 1.  I gott ask - Did you ever anticipate this much response?

No not really. I actually thought trolls would crash the thread and I’d end up getting banned :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 16 Nov 2017, 02:24 am
There was only one badass tour!  Well, 2 of them actually.   :green: 


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105395.0


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108239.0


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0


AND only one badass amp case DIY group buy.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79902.msg762665#msg762665

The amplifiers I was referring to were commercial products from well-known OEMs.  Amps were not cheap either.  Just not right for my speakers.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 16 Nov 2017, 07:16 am
This question is probably premature but for the aluminum plate on the bottom of the pcb, would it be adviseable to cover it with heatsink compound to help transfer heat to the case?  I only ask because I have some silly overpriced heatsink compound called thermal grizzly kryonaut I could use.  You can't make these video gamer targeted product names up :p
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 16 Nov 2017, 07:27 am
Here’s my last set of stacked Baltic birch speakers. I built them for beta testing active speaker electronics.

Looks very nice, and like a lot of time consuming work.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 16 Nov 2017, 09:03 am
stacked birch ply speaker cabinets are insane amounts of work..  I'd rather have a cast cement cabinet, seems easier and cement is cheap!  also you can mix swarovski crystals in the cement and tell people they are harmonic vibration reducing quantum crystals and charge more ;)
Title: Star quad in power cable
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 09:57 am
After adding several posts to the thread of the DC Ripple & blocker I remembered that Aleksandar sells audiophile (rhodium plated US plug) power cables that uses star quad cables. And they are cheaperrrr.

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/audio-cables/1-5-m-power-cable-silver-in-ptfe-rhodium-plated-us-iec-connectors/

Quote
The Power cable offered here is built using High-Quality multistrand deep silver plated wires with PTFE (teflon) insulation made by Habia ( http://www.habia.com/ ). A special technique for twisting the wires called “star quad” is used in cable assembling in order to raise the magnetic immunity and CMRR (Common-Mode Rejection Ratio).

This ensures the high-performance audio reproduction even in noisy and electromagnetically polluted environments.

Power connectors suffer over time and use. There, the plated with rhodium is justified, to avoid losing the plated. In mine (without rhodium) there is rust, maybe from the power surge I had, 400 volts!, I only guess.

Maybe Mike can sell power cords like this (only to this amp or not), without custom taxes and shipping from EU! With the audiophile Furutech rhodium plugs from Dave.
Title: Google: Icepower+1200AS
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 11:05 am
If someone wants to understand:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Icepower+1200AS

Mivera Audio is the first and the second!

In Spain we have a saying "el primero siempre golpea dos veces": the first always hits twice.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 12:02 pm
This question is probably premature but for the aluminum plate on the bottom of the pcb, would it be adviseable to cover it with heatsink compound to help transfer heat to the case?  I only ask because I have some silly overpriced heatsink compound called thermal grizzly kryonaut I could use.  You can't make these video gamer targeted product names up :p

You could if you want. Just spread it real thin. There’s 18 screws on the bottom panel allowing for very strong contact between the amps heatsink/mounting plate. So I don’t think it’s really necessary.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 12:04 pm
Looks very nice, and like a lot of time consuming work.  :thumb:

Thanks. Yes they took forever. Especially the sanding. I came up with a much better system to build cabinets since.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 16 Nov 2017, 01:02 pm
I just tried to order my parts/upgrades but the website refused my order. Is the shop down or closed (for parts)?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 01:31 pm
No it should be fine. I’ll check it out.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 01:33 pm
Works fine for me. People have been having occasional issues. I’m not sure why. Maybe try a different browser.
Title: Re: Google: Icepower+1200AS
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 01:34 pm
If someone wants to understand:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Icepower+1200AS

Mivera Audio is the first and the second!

In Spain we have a saying "el primero siempre golpea dos veces": the first always hits twice.

Must be from all the traffic on my website.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 16 Nov 2017, 01:43 pm
Works fine for me. People have been having occasional issues. I’m not sure why. Maybe try a different browser.
You're right. The website is fine. It didn't like the VPN I was using. I've completed my order.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Doublej on 16 Nov 2017, 02:21 pm
No not really. I actually thought trolls would crash the thread and I’d end up getting banned :)

I am not a troll but I can try if you'd like  :D

Based on my minuscule knowledge of this marketplace it looks like the Icepower folks may be targeting high end AVRs and this generation digital integrated amplifiers (built in DACS, room correction, etc.) from the big boys such as Pioneer, Marantz, etc.

How else do can a manufacturer add value when you provide them with a complete product except for connectors and a case? A manufacturer can't even add a magical power supply for thousands of dollars...

Something I read indicated that the board could be run as a 3 channel amplifier. So three boards gets you a 7 or 9 channel AVR with the addition of a processor.

To put this in context from a size perspective, if you look at the innards of the $600 Emotiva processor you'll see a relatively small board that contains a couple of chips that handle all of the processing. It's getting to the point where the majority of the physical volume and cost(?) of the units is in the non-guts of the unit and the software licensing fees for the processing technology.

If the stuff is that good (I am not doubting it in any way, shape, or form) and profitable it will either be copied with blatant disregard for IP ownership or variations of it will appear quickly.






Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 02:34 pm
It’s going to be very hard for Icepower competition to copy the Iceedge IP. It’s all in the ASIC chips. It takes millions to produce ASIC chips. Also the team at Icepower has a level of expertise unmatched in the industry. Icepower is going to have this market in the bag for a long time. Best thing competition can do is use their chips to make their own variations. Because they are just selling the chips for OEM’s who wish to do so.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 02:38 pm
I’m going to be driving 800 miles through the snowy mountains today. So anyone with questions might have to wait. Probably a bad idea to post to the forum under these conditions.
Title: Marantz PM-10
Post by: maty on 16 Nov 2017, 02:43 pm
Talking about Marantz and class D amps... my old post about the new and very expensive Marantz PM-10 with pictures and discussions about the module.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-post4924172.html
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 16 Nov 2017, 07:53 pm
Not surprising. Iam sure their high volume clients (ie commercial amp makers) have noted what is happening here and put pressure on them to stop this. All speculation of course.

Which, if true, is total, pure, unadulterated BS!  Not unheard of though.  Manufacturers can be fickle folks.  :evil:

We are a bunch of DIYer hobbyists who aren't going to buy a Theta, Ayre, or BelCanto anyway.  I doubt I'll even buy a W4S or PS Audio for that matter (unless it's used at a great deal).   :rules:

Bottom line is that it's a different customer base.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Doublej on 16 Nov 2017, 08:38 pm

We are a bunch of DIYer hobbyists who aren't going to buy a Theta, Ayre, or BelCanto anyway.  I doubt I'll even buy a W4S or PS Audio for that matter (unless it's used at a great deal).   :rules:

Bottom line is that it's a different customer base.

Would be willing to bet that a company targeting high end manufacturers would want nothing to do with DIY as it would likely massively devalue the brand.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 08:55 pm
If everyone who built amps using Icepower modules started using this business model would Icepower sell more modules or less modules? Would the world be a better sounding place if every average joe had an amp of this grade in their system?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Wind Chaser on 16 Nov 2017, 08:56 pm
Would be willing to bet that a company targeting high end manufacturers would want nothing to do with DIY as it would likely massively devalue the brand.

I doubt the legendary (and very smart) Nelson Pass would agree.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: WC on 16 Nov 2017, 09:00 pm
If everyone who built amps using Icepower modules started using this business model would Icepower sell more modules or less modules?

As long as they can sell the icepower modules for the same price what do they care? More people will buy a sub $1000 amp than an over $3000 one. They will probably sell more modules if the amps were priced lower.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 16 Nov 2017, 09:26 pm
Trying to understand the business strategy of a commercial entity is usually a fruitless exercise. Who knows what they want to achieve or how?

I see stereophile has awarded the kii three speakers product of the year. Having listened to them on a few different occasions I can understand why. For a non dedicated multipurpose home environment they seem perfect.
Thats the next challenge for you Mike. You have the speakers, dacs and amps. Now put together something 1/3 of the cost of the kii three.  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 09:27 pm
I think they would be further ahead placing a maximum MSRP rather than a minimum. And if the manufacturers business model isn’t profitable based on that MSRP, time to pull up your socks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 16 Nov 2017, 09:36 pm
As long as they can sell the icepower modules for the same price what do they care? More people will buy a sub $1000 amp than an over $3000 one. They will probably sell more modules if the amps were priced lower.

They might sell more modules but they also would have invest in more production capacity. The idea is for a business to hit a sweet spot between pricing, sales, and investment. Every business model doesn't necessarily embrace maximum sales, especially if they have "high end" aspirations. In my business, we often have to work just as hard to make an item that sells for a thousand dollars as one that sells for 10,000, so why would we focus only on selling high volumes for a lower price when we could work less and earn more more money (if we choose projects correctly)? As Audiogeek just mentioned, trying to parse how every business determines the strategy that works for them is fruitless. Every entity has a different idea.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 09:44 pm
Trying to understand the business strategy of a commercial entity is usually a fruitless exercise. Who knows what they want to achieve or how?

I see stereophile has awarded the kii three speakers product of the year. Having listened to them on a few different occasions I can understand why. For a non dedicated multipurpose home environment they seem perfect.
Thats the next challenge for you Mike. You have the speakers, dacs and amps. Now put together something 1/3 of the cost of the kii three.  :D

Simply building something better for less isn’t enough. Because people buy brands not products. The reason people bought this amp is because of the Icepower brand.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 16 Nov 2017, 09:52 pm
Well I didnt buy it because of the IcePower brand. IcePower has been soundly thrashed by hypex for years.
My rationale was something new and insanely cheap with specs that havnt been achieved before, coupled with the tantalising prospect of performing better than anything available even at multiple times the cost.
At this market price point, brands become irrelevant for me.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 09:54 pm
Well I didnt buy it because of the IcePower brand. IcePower has been soundly thrashed by hypex for years.
My rationale was something new and insanely cheap with specs that havnt been achieved before, coupled with the tantalising prospect of performing better than anything available even at multiple times the cost.
At this market price poinr, brands become irrelevant fir me.

Well you’re the minority. If I came up with an even better amp with the Mivera name on it nobody would have bought it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sledwards on 16 Nov 2017, 10:09 pm
Well what about a better DAC with the Mivera name on it? I believe there are 20 or more delighted customers out there who didn't care about a name brand, I for one.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 10:16 pm
Well what about a better DAC with the Mivera name on it? I believe there are 20 or more delighted customers out there who didn't care about a name brand, I for one.

25 buyers over 1.5 years vs 66 buyers over 5 days. Hmmmmm what was the better idea?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Doublej on 16 Nov 2017, 10:42 pm
I doubt the legendary (and very smart) Nelson Pass would agree.

Educate me here. I thought Nelson Pass IS the manufacturer, not a supplier to other high end audio manufacturers.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sledwards on 16 Nov 2017, 10:58 pm
25 buyers over 1.5 years vs 66 buyers over 5 days. Hmmmmm what was the better idea?
Better advertising campaign?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 10:59 pm
Better advertising campaign?

A better advertising campaign would be putting another brand on the case :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 11:20 pm
I think of dac’s Preamps, and amps as just subcomponents of an integrated system. And that integrated system belongs on the back of the speaker. Not an overpriced equipment rack.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 11:24 pm
You guys see this commercial yet?

Edit wrong video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xknM7g9a7-g
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 16 Nov 2017, 11:26 pm
I think of dac’s Preamps, and amps as just subcomponents of an integrated system. And that integrated system belongs on the back of the speaker. Not an overpriced equipment rack.

Lol, this is exactly what Iam suggesting.

The dac did have brands in it. Akm dac chips, commercially available opamps etc. You only had it on your own website. This amp is on a highly participated forum.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Nov 2017, 11:32 pm
Any time someone asks me to make another DAC I think about that commercial.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Rocket_Ronny on 16 Nov 2017, 11:41 pm
I guess I am that guy in the video as all I sell are CDs and have not sold downloads yet, let alone ported the music over to a subscription service. My daughter has her music on Soundcloud and Spotify. She is way ahead of me, although I make money, she doesn't, yet. Search for Emily Vay. I resist losing physical media I guess.

Rocket Ronny
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 17 Nov 2017, 12:33 am
I think of dac’s Preamps, and amps as just subcomponents of an integrated system. And that integrated system belongs on the back of the speaker. Not an overpriced equipment rack.

One thing I'd say about that perspective is that your vision of hardware to deliver music seems akin to a "lifestyle" product. Nothing wrong with that but many, many of us still love to swap amps, preamps, sources, cables, etc. I'm pretty sure your vision of where audio needs to go is more in line with the needs and desires of younger music lovers though. Oh, and I know my wife would be happy to have me dump the double wide Billy Bags full of equipment in our family room for a sleek integrated system too! :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 17 Nov 2017, 01:19 am
This thread is getting weird starting with this page.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 04:55 am
One thing I'd say about that perspective is that your vision of hardware to deliver music seems akin to a "lifestyle" product. Nothing wrong with that but many, many of us still love to swap amps, preamps, sources, cables, etc. I'm pretty sure your vision of where audio needs to go is more in line with the needs and desires of younger music lovers though. Oh, and I know my wife would be happy to have me dump the double wide Billy Bags full of equipment in our family room for a sleek integrated system too! :lol:


Yes the baby boomers love their separates. And that’s who makes up the majority of the high end Audio interests today. But when you’re building a business, it’s going to happen in the future, not the past. We now have incredible amps like these Icepower’s that are so good that it’s not even worth designing an amp from scratch anymore. Better to focus on things that are missing, not in abundance. That’s the only place any headway can be gained. Proper system integration. Designing every single sub-component to function like a well oiled machine. That’s a great thing about these amps as well. The modules could always be repurposed in the future if someone was to come out with a system that uses it as the amp stage. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 05:17 am
What do you guys think about an amp built like my Purepower:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171437)

Each side with a 1200AS2. In the middle the best 3 way active crossover/DAC/Pre the world has seen. 4 channels of amp outs. If you have 2 way speakers all you need is that amp for a SOTA active speaker. But there’s also a pair of pre-outs to go to an external 1200AS amp to power woofers if you have a 3 way. All crossover and room correction DSP programmable by an IPad. Digital input will be ST fiber. You can run any media player you want in a small form factor NUC as the front end.

$5000 each in lots of 20.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 05:37 am
Would be willing to bet that a company targeting high end manufacturers would want nothing to do with DIY as it would likely massively devalue the brand.

Keep in mind they have Icepower laptop amps:

https://www.asus.com/Laptops/N76VM/

If there’s a market, there’s a business opportunity. For example 90% of ESS’s income is from the Sabre smartphone chips. 80% of 9018/9028/9038 sales are from DAC’s around the $1000 price point. DAC’s over $5000 account for under 2% annual revenue.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 05:47 am
This thread is getting weird starting with this page.

It’s intermission time between Lot 3/4 :)

I have a good feeling about how the Icepower negotiations will go next week. We will come up with a win win win situation I know it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 17 Nov 2017, 05:52 am
sounds like you're advocating the Vinne Rossie LIO modular all in one type philosophy..  I'm all for it, I've been consolidating my system from seperate dac/preamp to single dac/pre but I like to keep the power amp seperate due to heat/bigger power needs and maybe the toroid radiating.  I think audiophiles could totally get behind something like the ATX motherboard standard for desktop pcs, that allow you to plug in seperate dacs/preamps or streamer components and upgrade later.. it wouldn't even have to be standardized across companies, maybe each company can have their own standard but offer upgrades later.. I feel like the analog components wouldn't need to upgrade too often but the dac tech changes often..  or the streamer part or the transport/input type might be good to be able to change
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 06:01 am
sounds like you're advocating the Vinne Rossie LIO modular all in one type philosophy..  I'm all for it, I've been consolidating my system from seperate dac/preamp to single dac/pre but I like to keep the power amp seperate due to heat/bigger power needs and maybe the toroid radiating.  I think audiophiles could totally get behind something like the ATX motherboard standard for desktop pcs, that allow you to plug in seperate dacs/preamps or streamer components and upgrade later.. it wouldn't even have to be standardized across companies, maybe each company can have their own standard but offer upgrades later.. I feel like the analog components wouldn't need to upgrade too often but the dac tech changes often..  or the streamer part or the transport/input type might be good to be able to change



That’s why the Center is completely isolated with aluminum plate. It’s like a case within a case. The massive heatsinks are much more than is required to cool the amps ice cold under any load condition. The issues you’re talking about were only an issue with 80’s tech. There’s no big radiating transformer on the 1200AS. And if there was no EMI would pass though the aluminum plate into the DAC/pre/crossover section anyways. Every section is on modular upgradable boards. So never will go obsolete.

Yes similar to the LIO only with a 3 way DSP Xover and 4x1200w amplification.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 06:09 am
That one has a rats nest of wires because there’s 8 Slagleformer’s in there. Also 6 inputs and 3 outputs. All wired point to point with Neotech UP-OCC copper.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 17 Nov 2017, 06:43 am
I have no interest at this time in an integrated amp, but if I may suggest you should talk to Morten at Tortuga (another site sponsor) abt his volume controls.  I sold my slagleformer piece after trying one of Morten's.  The best volume control I have ever heard , offers remote w/balance and lots of other things only he could explain to you.  I have no commercial interest here- just a fanboy of an excellent product.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 06:44 am
Here’s what was under the mess of wires.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171438)




In my proposed system there would be no analog inputs. So clean layout with no copper wire mess. No Slagleformer’s.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 06:47 am
I have no interest at this time in an integrated amp, but if I may suggest you should talk to Morten at Tortuga (another site sponsor) abt his volume controls.  I sold my slagleformer piece after trying one of Morten's.  The best volume control I have ever heard , offers remote w/balance and lots of other things only he could explain to you.  I have no commercial interest here- just a fanboy of an excellent product.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171443)

Yes I’ve heard a lot about them. The results you obtain with Slagleformer’s all depends on the gain stage before them. When you have a Weiss OP2-BP based gain stage with 10 ohm output impedance there’s massive gains with Slagleformer’s. This is where proper system integration comes in. However I’ve moved on from the Slagleformer’s in future products. Volume control can be done better in the digital domain if done right.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 07:27 am
Further experimentation has shown me there’s no possible better way than to have the gain stage of the source directly coupled to the amps. I tried all sorts of resistive volume controls but when you have a killer gain stage with very low output impedance in the source, resistive volume controls waste it. Even if they’re transparent. Some might not notice if their amp has an input buffer stage pumping up the sound again following it. But the best is to directly couple them with no analog volume control between the DAC gain stage and the amp. But then you need to control volume. With my DAC it only runs at 1bit and 11.289mhz. So you must do a “DSD Wide” volume control before it. It’s complicated to figure out how to do it right and also mute the DAC outputs within nanoseconds to ensure no pops are audible as the digital interface connects to the registers in discrete DAC section. Analog volume controls make this easy as they’re after the DAC so you have a layer of protection and not just a full blast pop into the speakers if something goes wrong. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brj on 17 Nov 2017, 07:55 am
bavmike, I look forward to an eventual circle that may allow this thread to be split into more self-consistant sub-threads.  There's a lot of interesting content, but it's rapidly branching out to the point where it's hard to track - at least, for those that can't check AC every few hours!

For example, I'm curious about your active crossover integration.  I actually welcome increased component integration, but DACs seem to advance fast enough that I'd be hesitant to build one into an integrated of the level you describe unless it were very modular.  This hesitation is only amplified when I consider the use of multiple DACs following a digital crossover.  This is exactly why I've never seriously pursued the DEQX despite my technical interest, and why my active system currently uses an analog line-level crossover even though it relies on the convolution engine in HQPlayer for driver EQ (in addition to upsampling to DSD).


Educate me here. I thought Nelson Pass IS the manufacturer, not a supplier to other high end audio manufacturers.

I've not heard of Pass Labs supplying other manufacturers.  WC's comment addressed the other aspect of your original comment, namely that Nelson's support of the DIY community is well beyond what is common for most manufacturers, and yet has apparently not in any way devalued his brand.

Whether you consider that relevant or not likely depends on whether you feel that manufacturer DIY support would impact OEM sales more or less than consumer sales.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 11:19 am
The DAC board is extremely modular. Actually consisting of 4 boards per channel. This type of DAC doesn’t go obsolete very often. Because it’s basically just a low pass filter. What goes obsolete is SRC/SDM algorithms. But they all run in software. So just a matter of a free update to upgrade. It’s a myth that building something integrated means non upgradable. Unless that’s how it’s designed.

Yeah until I get a circle I’m limited to posting on this thread. And until I know what’s happening with Lot 4 there’s not much to talk about the amp anymore that hasn’t been discussed already.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 17 Nov 2017, 12:18 pm
Mike,
   Will the XLR connectors be small enough to fit through the cutouts if I want to mount the jacks on the outside of the rear plate?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 03:08 pm
Yes but then the connectors need mounted to the panel before the cables are soldered on. Because both channels go to 1 amp input connector. It also won’t look as nice.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 06:01 pm
I was just checking the orders and still lots of people haven’t ordered connectors for their amps yet. I’ll send out emails to everyone who hasn’t soon. I’m going to order all connectors Monday so I need to have all orders in.

Thanks,
Mike.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 17 Nov 2017, 06:10 pm
Mike I doubled order connectors but never got a credit back?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 06:12 pm
Mike I doubled order connectors but never got a credit back?

I emailed you about that and didn’t hear back. I will refund you for 2 sets of binding posts, and 2 sets of analog input wire.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 17 Nov 2017, 07:19 pm
You go away from the thread for a week on work trip and now there's choices to be made on connectors, wiring, etc. And pretty confused with the choices to be made and hard to poke around in the thread without spending an hour going through it.

What's the "menu" for the choices we need to make Mike? Sorry if I'm repeating things here, maybe make another post in "Industry Introductions" on ordering options?

ie. Do I add 1 to the order quantity or 2 for each individual binding post, for example?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 07:36 pm
Okay there’s 5 items you need for each amp:

1: Power cable
2: Speaker cable
3: Analog input cable
4: Binding posts
5: Analog input connectors (XLR or RCA)

Optional 6: (extra set of RCA or XLR. This comes with input wires on the $1 connector options for $35 extra. , But for the premium connectors you’ll need 2 sets of input wires. I’ll bill you the $35 later if you decide you want 2 sets of standard $1 input connectors.

Mix and match what you wish.

You only need 1 of each item for each amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 08:53 pm
I think once I get a circle I’ll make a sticky describing the amp and all options. Then I’ll make a new thread for each Lot and comments. Then I’ll make an impressions thread.

Already over a dozen people wanting to place Lot. 4 deposits!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 17 Nov 2017, 09:44 pm
I think people started getting confused when you added the "standard/base" plugs and wiring to your upgrade page on your site. It might have been easier to leave the standard $1 items off the page since they already come with the standard amp. A "reply by" date on your site for those who want any of the upgrade parts would've sufficed, and after that date, if they didn't upgrade, they get the standard amp.

If you're ordering parts for 1 amp, just use Quantity - 1 for each upgrade. If you're buying 2 amps, use Quantity - 2. This will get you the required parts for your amp. Mike will then refund you immediately for those parts since they're standard parts. I think he's just trying to keep track of who wants what via his upgrade parts page!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 09:59 pm
It would be a nightmare trying to sort out what everyone wants by reading memos left with the order. Also many people have mixed and matched standard connectors and premium cable. My webshop organizes all the orders based on each client this way, and also tracks the quantity of each item I need to order to fill the orders. Only thing I need to add is the $35 cost to terminate amp connectors and solder for folks who want additional connectors. For lot 1/2/3 I’m just going to manually invoice that cost.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 10:04 pm
Anyways with Lot 4 and beyond everyone will be ordering everything they want all at once. I’ll clearly explain what to do in the descriptions of each item. The amp is going to come with no cables and connectors at all. So you’ll need to add the cables and connectors that you want.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 17 Nov 2017, 11:34 pm
I probably should have said 'order by' instead of 'reply by' in my last post - my mistake.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Nov 2017, 11:51 pm
I probably should have said 'order by' instead of 'reply by' in my last post - my mistake.

There’s only a couple left who haven’t ordered. I’ll email them tonight.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 18 Nov 2017, 12:30 am
I think people started getting confused when you added the "standard/base" plugs and wiring to your upgrade page on your site. It might have been easier to leave the standard $1 items off the page since they already come with the standard amp. A "reply by" date on your site for those who want any of the upgrade parts would've sufficed, and after that date, if they didn't upgrade, they get the standard amp.

If you're ordering parts for 1 amp, just use Quantity - 1 for each upgrade. If you're buying 2 amps, use Quantity - 2. This will get you the required parts for your amp. Mike will then refund you immediately for those parts since they're standard parts. I think he's just trying to keep track of who wants what via his upgrade parts page!

People like me needed the base (standard) options listed so we knew what they were and not have to search this thread to find out.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Carl V on 18 Nov 2017, 12:35 am
Been busy & not Checked back in...WHOA. This took off like a grass fire.

I see I need to order & purchase Connectors.
Okie Dokie.
Premium upgrades seems good.

What does the cognoscenti here at AC think of eternal wired RCA to XLR adapters?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 18 Nov 2017, 01:49 am
well if you want eternal, get rhodium plated they are more durable and wear resistant ;)
people seem to be saying they are lossy.  I originally planned to get XLR inputs and use rca to xlr cables with my sonica dac rca out, because the amp has a 3.5V to reach max volume so seem more suited to most devices xlr output power..  but zenwave dave said it's lossy and I'm having ric schultz mod my sonica dac to rca only output with 2.8V output.. so I got the furutech rcas.
I'm not sure it _really_ matters.. mike suggested most people just get xlr and use an rca adapter when needed
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Nov 2017, 02:09 am
well if you want eternal, get rhodium plated they are more durable and wear resistant ;)
people seem to be saying they are lossy.  I originally planned to get XLR inputs and use rca to xlr cables with my sonica dac rca out, because the amp has a 3.5V to reach max volume so seem more suited to most devices xlr output power..  but zenwave dave said it's lossy and I'm having ric schultz mod my sonica dac to rca only output with 2.8V output.. so I got the furutech rcas.
I'm not sure it _really_ matters.. mike suggested most people just get xlr and use an rca adapter when needed

It’s only $35 more to get an extra set with Neutrik connectors and Mogami wire. Takes 2 minutes to swap. So if anyone needs both that’s what I would recommend.

Some time this weekend I’m going to just add extra pre-terminated connector/cable assemblies, with every possible connector/cable combo in the webshop. These will only be for those who want a 2nd set. This will make it less confusing to order the second set.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 18 Nov 2017, 02:11 am
Thanks mike I think I will order a 2nd set of inputs when you put those up
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Nov 2017, 06:22 am
Okay webshop updated. I think I finally have it easy to figure out. As long as you read the descriptions under each connector/cable option clearly you should be okay. I added "additional connectors" at the bottom of the list.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Nov 2017, 09:55 pm
I’ll let Jay leave his impressions.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171541)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 12:19 am
The Shamwow took things up to a new level. I may need to add a Shamwow wonder pad to the webshop.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171558)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 19 Nov 2017, 01:22 am
The world is waiting Jay!

I got a quick text message review from Don. It went like this: "All I can say is wow!!" If Don gives it a wow, I'm guessing this little guy renders irrelevant 2000 years of advancement in amplification. :)

Wish I could have come out.......



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 01:44 am
Are you coming to tomorrow’s listening session Paul?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 19 Nov 2017, 02:47 am
Would love to. I'll c u guys then. Look forward to it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 02:57 am
Sounds great. Over at Jay’s now and I must say sound here is also stellar with the little Folsom amp!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171562)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 19 Nov 2017, 05:31 am
The Shamwow took things up to a new level. I may need to add a Shamwow wonder pad to the webshop.

What's a shamwow, Walter?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 05:33 am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QwRISkyV_B8
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 19 Nov 2017, 05:41 am
Maybe you can strip the cables with a slapchop too :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 06:23 am
Maybe you can strip the cables with a slapchop too :)

Ha ha good call! Actually great day of listening. I have to spend tomorrow with my family, but I left the amp at Don’s. I’m quite confident Paul’s gonna like what he hears. :) And Paul is coming from Audio Note.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 19 Nov 2017, 06:33 am
Hmmmm..... but I didn't see any glass on that amp board  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 06:50 am
Hmmmm..... but I didn't see any glass on that amp board  :lol:

Just trust your ears Paul. This is a rare situation where measured results and subjective experience can co-exist in harmony. It’s a beautiful thing when the moons align. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 19 Nov 2017, 07:33 pm
Spent the afternoon  (about 4 or 5 hrs) listening to the new Icepower AS/2 yesterday.Can't see how anyone would be disappointed with  this. There are no signs of being cold or sterile,  not fatiguing  what so ever. tons of power  and very dynamic

I'd say it's  very neutral, in othe rwords it  amplifies the input signal very   accuately without adding   any   colration.. We listened to quite a bit of  music (sources were from 44.1/16 to DSD256, all upsampled to DSD256 on the server) and  this was apparent as we moved from  album to album,.... whenn the  recording had  a deep ,  well layered sounstage it was  there,   same goes for the overall  sound/tone,   you get  what's on the recording 

"Have You Heard"  from Pat Matheny's Road to You was crazy , literally  a huge prsentation, felt like  I was  at the concert.  We listen to this cut quite  often and  I had never heard it  like this.
 In a few cuts  from Lee Ritenour's  Rythem Sessions  I heard  details in the  recording I'd never  really  noticed before, or at least they weren't  so  apparent.


Can't see anyone who   ordered one of these being anything  les than  impressed.  Only spent a  few hours   with it   (hopefully some more this week)  .    Don and Paul are doing  some more listening this aftnoon,   hopefully  one of them will chime in with   some brief comments as well

So far,   definate  two tumbs up 

jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 19 Nov 2017, 08:08 pm
Thanks for your feelings on this amp. Did any of the zenwave options end up on this amp?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 08:36 pm
Thanks for the feedback Jay. Here’s all the details on the killer speakers Jay and Don built, used in this demo.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152137.0

The sound is phenomenal!

No Zenwave upgrades here. I’m using a circa 1973 Electrolux vacuum cable for power. Output connectors are duct taped makeshift banana with tin faston’s soldered to the tips. Input cables are the cheap generic cables from Icepower. Not even as good as the Mogami.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171588)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171589)




Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 19 Nov 2017, 08:55 pm
Love it...do what you gotta do to get it playing
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 19 Nov 2017, 09:06 pm
Maybe time to put this stripped down naked option on the webshop. Save some money with no case!  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 09:07 pm
Maybe time to put this stripped down naked option on the webshop. Save some money with no case!  :lol:

Can’t do that. Can’t just sell the modules. OEM only.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: joey116 on 19 Nov 2017, 10:37 pm
Do you have an idea if, & when, it will be possible to order the kit?
Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ThuanDB on 19 Nov 2017, 11:16 pm
+1

Yeah Mike, I want one.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Nov 2017, 11:41 pm
Sorry guys not doing the kit anymore. Only fully assembled. And regarding when Lot 4 deposits, I’ll let you know after I discuss details with Icepower.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Nov 2017, 03:22 am
Thanks for your feelings on this amp. Did any of the zenwave options end up on this amp?

LOL  no.... and the reason I laugh is  that we had this poor thing pretty   "bare necessity"  wired....  I won't say any more than that.  It will only get better ... you'll have to trust me on that    !

jay

Edit :  I se you don't have to trust me on  the wiring..... Mike posted some  pics    :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 20 Nov 2017, 03:39 am
Jay,

[Howdy from Taiwan!]

Did you have your Dodd connected to the 1200, or another pre?

Your G2Gs are getting better and better. I hope I can convince Melody that we must visit the area (and you, Don, and John) again next summer. Of course, she knows what's up the second I mention your name. LOL!

I'm in the first lot for this amp. Once it's in my hands, I'll be up to my eyeballs in amps. I'll get a DAC next....

Michael
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Nov 2017, 03:48 am
It was this Allnic L-1500 preamp:

https://www.innerearmag.com/reviews/preamps/Allnic_L-1500.shtml


I'm going to take it to Jay's place and try with his Dood preamp once I get some premium RCA harnesses built.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 20 Nov 2017, 04:11 am
That's a mighty sweet looking preamp, Mike. I imagine it's equally nice sounding!

It's a little above my budget, so I'll just have to make due with my Don Sachs Model 2.  :) Don is in Nelson.

I'm really looking forward to this amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Nov 2017, 04:59 am
Jay,

[Howdy from Taiwan!]

Did you have your Dodd connected to the 1200, or another pre?

Your G2Gs are getting better and better. I hope I can convince Melody that we must visit the area (and you, Don, and John) again next summer. Of course, she knows what's up the second I mention your name. LOL!

I'm in the first lot for this amp. Once it's in my hands, I'll be up to my eyeballs in amps. I'll get a DAC next....

Michael

Well first off, youi know you and Melody are always welcome,  we missed having you  guys over this summer.    Lots of changes since   you  were here last....  you'll have to  hear  a couple systems next time   :)

No,  we  were using an Allnic L1500 pre up at Don's on the weekend, nicpiece ,    Mike and I were talking later  that night and thought  the Dodd would be a   great choice to try....   we'll have to give that  a go.  I se it all the time in front of my Folsom.

Yes, you'll have to do some comparisons  with all those   new  toys ..
Enjoy Taiwan my friend

jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Nov 2017, 05:02 am
That's a mighty sweet looking preamp, Mike. I imagine it's equally nice sounding!

It's a little above my budget, so I'll just have to make due with my Don Sachs Model 2.  :) Don is in Nelson.

I'm really looking forward to this amp.


Yes it's a nice sounding unit. A bit on the soft and lush side for folks who like that kind of sound. However with this amp there's absolutely no listening fatigue even with completely neutral preamp's. Or DAC direct to the amp. If you want to hear what your front end truly sounds like, this amp will let you know. It won't lie, and it won't add any coloration or fatigue of it's own to the mix. The limitless power reserves are addicting. Especially with those Extreme speakers. The sheer amount of energy delivered to the room made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. And no matter how loud we cranked them, not even a hint of strain or hardness was present. Extremely effortless sound.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Nov 2017, 05:05 am
Wel first off, youi know you and Melody are always welcome,  we missed having you  guys over this summer.    Lots of changes since   you  were here last....  you'll have to  hear  a couple systems next time .

No,  we  were using an Allnic L1500 pre up at Don's on the weekend although,    Mike and I were talking later  that night and thought  the dood would be a   great choice to try....   we'll have to give that  a go.  I sue it all the time in front of my fosom.

Yes, you'll have to do some comparisons  with all those   new  toys ..
Enjoy  taiwan my friend

jay

 I made it to today's listening session as well. Don really let those spiders get a workout today :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Nov 2017, 05:00 pm
Hi guys. Great news. Just got off the phone with Icepower. There’s going to be no price increase at this time. And I’m clear to open Lot 4 deposits. However keep in mind with the holiday season ahead these amps won’t deliver until some time in early January. Once the Lot 4 deposits fill, I’ll get a new lead time quote from all of the suppliers.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Nov 2017, 05:14 pm
Deposits are officially open for the 2 and 6 channel 1200AS2 amps!

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 20 Nov 2017, 05:38 pm
Thanks Mike. I just ordered an amp with most of the upgrades. I notice there is no separate listing for an "assembled" amp and I understand that's because lot 4 amps are only available assembled.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Nov 2017, 06:00 pm
Thanks! Yes they all come assembled now. No more Kit option.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 12:15 am
Lot 4 30% sold out!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 21 Nov 2017, 01:20 am
 :D. Can you please send my refund on your cancellation on my order ?  I should have got it by now ?
          Please send ,,,,,  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 01:23 am
Hi Pascal,

As I mentioned in my email, it was refunded already on the 14th:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171635)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 21 Nov 2017, 01:51 am
Yep, good ol' paypal will hold the funds for a few days, then you'll have to move it back to your bank.  I'm not sure why paypal doesn't automatically move it to the bank card you used other than to make interest on your PP account credit.  :|
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 21 Nov 2017, 02:00 am
If anyone wants to sell their kit, let me know.  Happy to buy it.  Can also offer trades if anyone here needs tubes.  I have a pretty extensive collection. 

Shawn
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 02:11 am
Yep, good ol' paypal will hold the funds for a few days, then you'll have to move it back to your bank.  I'm not sure why paypal doesn't automatically move it to the bank card you used other than to make interest on your PP account credit.  :|


If it was paid from your Paypal balance it goes back instantly. If from credit card it can take a couple day. But your Paypal account still shows you it was refunded. And you get an email at the time the refund is sent. It was this email that was the reason Pascal knows he was refunded in the first place.

These lots are fast moving. So a person needs to be on the ball and check emails often after a deposit is placed. Or I will refund the deposit to make way for someone ready to order come time the lot is filled. It's not fair to everyone else who left deposits, to delay the parts order due to lack of response from others.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pis99 on 21 Nov 2017, 02:52 am
Just put the deposit on a 6-channel amp! I did not add other options at this time. But is my assumption correct that for each option I need to X 6?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 02:53 am
If anyone wants to sell their kit, let me know.  Happy to buy it.  Can also offer trades if anyone here needs tubes.  I have a pretty extensive collection. 

Shawn

If you want an amp with no internal cable I can ship it to you that way. Just message me on my website and we can discuss it:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 02:55 am
Just put the deposit on a 6-channel amp! I did not add other options at this time. But is my assumption correct that for each option I need to X 6?

Thanks! You only need 3 of each of the 5 required cables/connectors for each of the 6 channel amps. Because each cable/connector order represents what's required for 2 channels of amplification.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 03:11 am
I edited my webshop to clarify the order quantities required for each amp option.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 05:32 am
Here's some info regarding Dave from Zenwave's Silver/gold OCC wire. This is the exact same wire I use as my silver/gold option in the web shop:


"The custom Neotech silver/gold alloy signal wire used in the D4 is my own OEM product! This wire outperforms the wire available to the general public. While alloy wire has been produced before, this is the only one made using the Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC) method, which produces a far superior wire to normal drawn wire.
This cable has all the positive attributes of UPOCC silver with a more realistic tone and warmth. Compared to the D3 cable it is even more accurate, precise, and neutral. There is more detail and the presentation is near perfect. It is also not as forgiving or laid back vs the D3 cable. A strong point with this cable is tone… UPOCC silver is amazingly accurate but the tone is a little on the thin side, the silver/gold alloy has a warm and amazingly realistic tone that is superior to any other wire I have used. Gauge for gauge this wire is double the price of Duelund silver, and many times the price of most wire on the market today. Consider that the top end cables from WireWorld and Siltech use UPOCC silver and my cable uses the much more expensive and custom OCC silver/gold alloy signal wire, the D4 is a not only one of the best interconnect cables on the market at any price, it is an amazing value."



He describes it better than me. A perfect match if you order this wire internally, is to use his D3 or D4 interconnects. Then you will be using the same wire externally as well:

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/d4-interconnect/

It's not too often that you get to choose the cables/connectors your amp uses right from the internal amp input to your preamp.


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 21 Nov 2017, 05:47 am
If some fool already made his cable orders but decided to upgrade his analog input wire for both his rca and xlr to neotech occ..  would he just add it to the cart and checkout or should he redo his whole order?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 05:50 am
If some fool already made his cable orders but decided to upgrade his analog input wire for both his rca and xlr to neotech occ..  would he just add it to the cart and checkout or should he redo his whole order?

At any time I can take upgrade orders on connectors/cables for those who have already ordered. I'm ordering extra of all of those supplies to have in my inventory, so no big deal to upgrade.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 21 Nov 2017, 05:58 am
I'm using Dave's amazing D4 interconnects to feed my current amp and they've brought a huge improvement in clarity, tone and soundstage over other ICs I've used. I feel they've allowed my amp to perform to its true potential. I know using that same wire inside (as well as outside) my new 1200AS amp is going to make it sing! I have no affiliation of any sort with Zenwave but would definitely recommend using these wires in these new amps. I think the price of the upgrade is very small for the improvement it will make.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 21 Nov 2017, 06:06 am
Just added the 6 channel 1200AS2 lot #1 to the webshop:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop

Hi Mike,

So glad to hear that lots are back open!

A couple questions:

What will be the dimensions of the 6-channel amp?

After the deposit, how are payments made?  50% when actually ordering parts, then the final 50% when shipping?

Thanks  :green:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 21 Nov 2017, 06:14 am
Grr you guys made me break my cable objectivity and get the neotech occ input wire.  This is like when a vegetarian eats meat because he’s on vacation in a Michelin starred steakhouse his friend took him to.  But the zen wave D4 was too subjective, that would be like eating veal.  That poor baby cow
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:18 am
Hi Mike,

So glad to hear that lots are back open!

A couple questions:

What will be the dimensions of the 6-channel amp?

After the deposit, how are payments made?  50% when actually ordering parts, then the final 50% when shipping?

Thanks  :green:

6 channel amp is 430mm wide 330mm deep and 88mm tall. No 100% when ordering parts. 50% only works for companies that make the industry standard BOMx 5-6. If you want me to make the same then I'll gladly take 50% :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:21 am
Grr you guys made me break my cable objectivity and get the neotech occ input wire.  This is like when a vegetarian eats meat because he’s on vacation in a Michelin starred steakhouse his friend took him to.  But the zen wave D4 was too subjective, that would be like eating veal.  That poor baby cow

Ha ha well when you consider the price compared with the alternatives, it's hard to lose. However if you're among the "all cables sound the same" crowd, this is why I have the Mogami option.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 21 Nov 2017, 06:34 am
6 channel amp is 430mm wide 330mm deep and 88mm tall. No 100% when ordering parts. 50% only works for companies that make the industry standard BOMx 5-6. If you want me to make the same then I'll gladly take 50% :)

Thanks for the dimensions.

I'm not sure I understand your answer with regards to the "BOM" comment.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:43 am
The reason I chose Zenwave Dave to be the cable supplier is not because we are buddies that go way back. In fact I only actually know Dave from a few forum and email exchanges. The real reason is Neotech was the first cable I actually heard a profound difference in sound with my own ears. And Dave is a straight up guy offering Neotech based cables with no BS, and very low profit margins compared to the rest of the industry. Very few people know that Neotech is actually the house brand of the Wan Lung cable company:

http://www.wanlung.com.tw/

These guys manufacture in house the majority of the highest end cables on the market. I'm talking for example the top of the line Siltech is 100% made by them with the Siltech brand just printed on the jackets. Then of course it's marked up 20-30X times. Sure they mess around with different shapes to wow the layman, but the most important thing is the metal grade itself. Exact same grade as what's in Dave's cables. Have a look at the Neotech rectangular cables:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171637)

Now lets look at the Siltech used in their $25000 interconnects:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171638)


Same thing guys only 10x the price, and oriented in a way to differentiate itself from the Neotech. After all no major audio mag will ever review Neotech cables. So very few will ever catch on. This is how Wan Lung can directly compete with their clients, and never have any issue.





 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:45 am
Thanks for the dimensions.

I'm not sure I understand your answer with regards to the "BOM" comment.

No problem. What I was referring to is the only way 50% up front is feasible, is if the parts cost is way under 50% of the end product. In my case it isn't even close. Let alone any labor to design and build, and the knowledge to know how to do it in the first place.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 21 Nov 2017, 08:14 am
Hi Mike,

I tried to place deposit in lot 4 with Chrome browser, but after I keyed in credit card info,it forced me to register palpay account. So I declined and chose to log in to my paypal account.

However, Paypal said it can't process my payment and asked me to go back to merchant page.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 08:19 am
Hi Mike,

I tried to place deposit in lot 4 with Chrome browser, but after I keyed in credit card info,it forced me to register palpay account. So I declined and chose to log in to my paypal account.

However, Paypal said it can't process my payment and asked me to go back to merchant page.

Hi Lateboomer,

Not sure what’s up. If PayPal won’t accept your card that’s an issue between your card and PayPal. Nothing to do with me. Payments are all handled offsite. Are you using a VPN when trying? Others had trouble as well, but the issue turned out being they were running a VPN.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 21 Nov 2017, 08:21 am
I made a paypal purchase in the mivera web shop in chrome a couple hours ago.. used my linked bank account tho
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 08:22 am
I made a paypal purchase in the mivera web shop in chrome a couple hours ago.. used my linked bank account tho

I think I have the issue pinpointed to VPN’s. PayPal won’t accept payment if you’re hiding behind a VPN.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 21 Nov 2017, 08:50 am
I don't think it is VPN. I shifted to use my mobile phone to perform order. I was able to choose credit card to make payment. But a message popped up said it doesn't offer the product in my region and denied me to order.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 08:52 am
Ahh that may be the issue. I will add your region to my shipping options. Since I already know you, you don’t have to tell me :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 21 Nov 2017, 08:56 am
"Very few people know that Neotech is actually the house brand of the Wan Lung cable company"

Oh, Mike. You may have just made my day. Their factory is only about 4 hours away from me. I wonder if I can wrangle a tour? Even if they won't give me a tour (or a discount), I know a few engineers here who may to be able to get me discounts.  :banana piano:

Thank you!

Michael

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 21 Nov 2017, 08:58 am
Maybe you can create a group buy for us :p
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 09:01 am
I don't think it is VPN. I shifted to use my mobile phone to perform order. I was able to choose credit card to make payment. But a message popped up said it doesn't offer the product in my region and denied me to order.

Should be good to go now Peter :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 09:02 am
"Very few people know that Neotech is actually the house brand of the Wan Lung cable company"

Oh, Mike. You may have just made my day. Their factory is only about 4 hours away from me. I wonder if I can wrangle a tour? Even if they won't give me a tour (or a discount), I know a few engineers here who may to be able to get me discounts.  :banana piano:

Thank you!

Michael

Great plan! Make sure to bring some local spirits :) And don't forget to review their Q&A first.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171639)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 09:04 am
If anyone has a problem with my amps not being available in your region, just let me know. I can ship anywhere. I just need to figure out the shipping rate to your country and add to my web shop.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 21 Nov 2017, 09:16 am
Great plan! Make sure to bring some local spirits :) And don't forget to review their Q&A first.


Local spirits? Like these?



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171640)
Sigh. I've rotated the damned picture three times already.



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171641)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 09:18 am
That should do it! Is that OCC gold flake in the bottom of the one on the right?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 21 Nov 2017, 09:24 am
Hi Mike,

Thank you and very fast action from you. I am able to place one order for 2-channel amp. I am satisfied customer of yours and will put my money where my mouth is anytime when you bring in some killer products into the market.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 21 Nov 2017, 09:28 am
That should do it! Is that OCC gold flake in the bottom of the one on the right?

There's only one way to find out the answer to your question.  :lol:

The Gaoliang was a gift from someone I've known since about 1990. The Solist I bought on the flight in to Taiwan. I love this stuff, but it costs an arm and a leg. It costs $97 USD here, but about $150 in Oregon/WA. I buy a bottle every time I come here. It won't last long once it is opened, I'm afraid.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 09:28 am
Hi Mike,

Thank you and very fast action from you. I am able to place one order for 2-channel amp. I am satisfied customer of yours and will put my money where my mouth is anytime when you bring in some killer products into the market.

Thanks Peter. You’re a good man and I’ll always have great products available for you and your friends to enjoy.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 09:30 am
There's only one way to find out the answer to your question.  :lol:

The Gaoliang was a gift from someone I've known since about 1990. The Solist I bought on the flight in to Taiwan. I love this stuff, but it costs an arm and a leg. It costs $97 USD here, but about $150 in Oregon/WA. I buy a bottle every time I come here. It won't last long once it is opened, I'm afraid.


Sounds like good times! :) Put on some great music and enjoy!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 21 Nov 2017, 09:36 am

Yes it's a nice sounding unit. A bit on the soft and lush side for folks who like that kind of sound. However with this amp there's absolutely no listening fatigue even with completely neutral preamp's. Or DAC direct to the amp. If you want to hear what your front end truly sounds like, this amp will let you know. It won't lie, and it won't add any coloration or fatigue of it's own to the mix...

SPL Volume 2  about €340

https://spl.info/en/products/monitor-controller/volume2/overview.html

*** Manual [PDF], with graphs: https://spl.info/fileadmin/user_upload/anleitungen/english/Volume2_2612_BA_E.pdf

[Review, 2010] http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/spl/volume2.html  with graphs and inside picture


Neutrik D Shape Adapters , with autotransformers to XLR <--> RCAAbout €33.

NA2M-D2B-TX RCA red

-> http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/inline-adapters/na2m-d2b-tx

NA2M-D0B-TX RCA black

-> http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/inline-adapters/na2m-d0b-tx

Quote
Miniature transformer balancing adapter, 3 pole XLR male - RCA / phono socket, black coded
 
Miniatur transformer balancing adapters

Low cost solution for unbalanced/balanced line conversion and passive DI applications, where no earth or gain switching is required

Audio transformer 1:1
Impedance ratio: 200:200
Source/load impedance in Ohm: 200/2k, (600/10k)
Max. Input level (@ 50 Hz, 1% THD): -3 dBu
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 21 Nov 2017, 10:02 am
Small audio transformers to inside the amp.

Neutrik

http://www.neutrik.com/en/accessories/accessories/transformers/


Monacor

https://www.monacor.com/products/pa-technology/signal-processing/signal-optimisation/

Monacor LTR-110

-> https://www.monacor.com/products/pa-technology/signal-processing/signal-optimisation/ltr-110/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 21 Nov 2017, 03:40 pm
The reason I chose Zenwave Dave to be the cable supplier is not because we are buddies that go way back. In fact I only actually know Dave from a few forum and email exchanges. The real reason is Neotech was the first cable I actually heard a profound difference in sound with my own ears. And Dave is a straight up guy offering Neotech based cables with no BS, and very low profit margins compared to the rest of the industry. Very few people know that Neotech is actually the house brand of the Wan Lung cable company:

http://www.wanlung.com.tw/

These guys manufacture in house the majority of the highest end cables on the market. I'm talking for example the top of the line Siltech is 100% made by them with the Siltech brand just printed on the jackets. Then of course it's marked up 20-30X times. Sure they mess around with different shapes to wow the layman, but the most important thing is the metal grade itself. Exact same grade as what's in Dave's cables. Have a look at the Neotech rectangular cables:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171637)

Now lets look at the Siltech used in their $25000 interconnects:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171638)


Same thing guys only 10x the price, and oriented in a way to differentiate itself from the Neotech. After all no major audio mag will ever review Neotech cables. So very few will ever catch on. This is how Wan Lung can directly compete with their clients, and never have any issue.

Thanks Mike, I appreciate the support. That's a really good way to get across the message I'm trying to convey as far as what's in my cables and the value they offer. I might borrow your photo comparison...  :green:   I do struggle a bit with trying to convey this info. It seems like if people really got it I'd continuously be backlogged with orders, and while I do stay fairly busy I have not hit that point yet.

The big difference with Siltech and Wireworld's top end IC cables is they use a heavy gauge of UPOCC silver, 17g, which is speaker-cable size, in order to get a realistic tone that doesn't sound thin or lightweight. I use less metal, a more normal ~21g for my IC cables, but use a silver/gold alloy in order to avoid the light/thin issue. Also, my D3 IC cable uses silver/gold for the signal and copper for the ground/pin1 leg so it's much more affordable and under $1k, it starts at $399 in fact for a 1/2 m RCA pair.

Michael, if you do get to visit Wan Lung please post about your trip! I'd love to see the OCC casting process and the cable-making machinery...

Finally, Harmonic Tech is also a Wan Lung brand, I've started carrying their speaker cable as it's a good design and the most economical way to get a very high quality UPOCC copper speaker cable of fairly heavy gauge. Making a heavy-gauge UPOCC cable by hand is expensive and a lot of labor in comparison.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 21 Nov 2017, 05:57 pm
Thanks Mike, I appreciate the support. That's a really good way to get across the message I'm trying to convey as far as what's in my cables and the value they offer. I might borrow your photo comparison...  :green:   I do struggle a bit with trying to convey this info. It seems like if people really got it I'd continuously be backlogged with orders, and while I do stay fairly busy I have not hit that point yet.

The big difference with Siltech and Wireworld's top end IC cables is they use a heavy gauge of UPOCC silver, 17g, which is speaker-cable size, in order to get a realistic tone that doesn't sound thin or lightweight. I use less metal, a more normal ~21g for my IC cables, but use a silver/gold alloy in order to avoid the light/thin issue. Also, my D3 IC cable uses silver/gold for the signal and copper for the ground/pin1 leg so it's much more affordable and under $1k, it starts at $399 in fact for a 1/2 m RCA pair.

Michael, if you do get to visit Wan Lung please post about your trip! I'd love to see the OCC casting process and the cable-making machinery...

Finally, Harmonic Tech is also a Wan Lung brand, I've started carrying their speaker cable as it's a good design and the most economical way to get a very high quality UPOCC copper speaker cable of fairly heavy gauge. Making a heavy-gauge UPOCC cable by hand is expensive and a lot of labor in comparison.

Dave I will be contacting you either as a pm here on on your website, I have PSB Imagine T3 with mono amps that I use Wireworld cables with since I have 2 each of Mikes amps on order I want to change my speaker cable to a shorter run for mono amps. I will be using each stereo amp to power vertically my speakers with one channel hooked to the lower woofer and the other channel hooked to the mid/tweeter inputs. DO you think this would be a good way to do it etc. I am using the Eclipse 7 copper cables now with a 1.5 meter speaker length. You can PM me to keep this off this thread.

Mike while I am thinking about it could I have one channel wire to both of the stereo inputs on the amp to use it as a mono amp?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:07 pm
If you want to run it mono just use one of the channels only. The 2nd channel doesn’t enable unless it senses a signal. So it’s no different than using the 1200AS1 when you do this.

Unless you’re referring to wanting to bi-amp. In this case you can use either an external adapter, or I could solder both R/L amp inputs to 1 input connector. But then the other one will be non functional.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 21 Nov 2017, 06:15 pm
Yes I know but why not use the other channel to power the lower woofer on my speakers which have 3 each binding posts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171647)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:17 pm
I can solder both R/L inputs to just 1 connector if you want.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 21 Nov 2017, 06:21 pm
Yes that is what I was thinking and I could always change it later if I want to use it as a stereo, please do
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 21 Nov 2017, 06:22 pm
Okay. Yeah just need a soldering iron to change it later.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 06:16 am
Lot #4-2 channel 50% sold out! May have 5 orders in for the lot #1-6 channel amp. We will see. I order parts for that lot when we reach 8 amps.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 06:52 am
We have a few fence sitters :)

https://vimeo.com/89041545
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 22 Nov 2017, 04:16 pm
Thinking, thinking,   :scratch: :dunno:

I've had a number of class D amps roll through my living room. A few I liked such as was the Nuforce 9SE V2. But then a Pass Lab came along and well...

A Halcro Class D performed multichannel use for a while but was too sterile for 2 channel use. I've had a few N-Cores that folks raved about but they sounded awful to my ears. A few months ago I got to try a Lindemann class D amp paired with my Musicbook DSD 25. That sounded good but not nearly as good as my current BMC amp.

I know it's a matter of time before these type of amplifiers punch with the class A/B amps and maybe the time has come. I just gave my stepson my Arcam 7 channel beast (with 1 busted channel). Now I'm tempted to buy the 6 channel 1200AS. The big Ushers might love the power as I believe they're 4 ohm speakers.

Wife wants to hear this thing. Count me in.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171689)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 04:24 pm
I think you’ll be shocked by what you hear from this amp. You can’t use any class D amp from the past as a comparison. This is a whole new level. I left the amp over at Don’s place since the weekend. He’s a hard core tube afficiando and he’s blown away by this amp. He can’t find any weaknesses for the life of him. Looks like the local demo sold 6 amps. And only that few because there was only 3 people there. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 04:43 pm
If you're a tube guy just use a tube preamp. This amp is so transparent it sounds like a tube amp without any of the tube amp weaknesses if you put tubes before it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 22 Nov 2017, 05:04 pm
I notice there is no choice of silver or black for the case for LOT 4, does that choice come later?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 05:36 pm
Yes there’s still the choice. I’m just taking deposits until the lot fills, then I’ll open up the orders and people can choose their color of choice.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: orientalexpress on 22 Nov 2017, 06:20 pm
After talking to Jay
I'm in  :thumb:


lap
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 22 Nov 2017, 08:24 pm
We have a few fence sitters :)

https://vimeo.com/89041545

Mike,

I've looked, but can't find it anywhere: what are the terms and conditions of the sale?  I saw you refunded one guy because he didn't pay the balance.

There was also a question regarding warranty earlier in the thread (something like "what happens if you meet your demise, Mike?").  Because you require full payment before ordering parts: what if something happens to you before you order parts?  How would we get our money back?

I'm just hesitant because I've never done business in this fashion before and don't know you personally.  Also better to get this stuff out of the way before situations arise.

I sincerely hope you live a long and enjoyable life and everyone gets their amazing amps, by the way!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 08:24 pm
After talking to Jay
I'm in  :thumb:


lap

Excellent thanks!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 08:30 pm
Mike,

I've looked, but can't find it anywhere: what are the terms and conditions of the sale?  I saw you refunded one guy because he didn't pay the balance.

There was also a question regarding warranty earlier in the thread (something like "what happens if you meet your demise, Mike?").  Because you require full payment before ordering parts: what if something happens to you before you order parts?  How would we get our money back?

I'm just hesitant because I've never done business in this fashion before and don't know you personally.  Also better to get this stuff out of the way before situations arise.

I sincerely hope you live a long and enjoyable life and everyone gets their amazing amps, by the way!  :thumb:

How it works is I take deposits for each lot. The lot sizes are 24 units for 2 channel, and 8 units for 6 channel. Once deposits are in for 24-2 channel amps, or 8-6 channel amps, I find out lead times of the parts from all suppliers. Following that I contact everyone who left deposits and notify them of leadtime. Then I start taking the orders. Once the orders are placed I refund the deposits and place the parts orders.

If I happen to die during the lead time period then someone else will take over my role. If everyone dies and nobody ships your product, PayPal will refund your money. Everyone who orders through PayPal is covered by insurance. I know all about it because I’m the one who pays for it.

Many companies do things this way anyways. They just don’t explain it to you in a clear fashion like I do. And they may not wait for lots to build up to order parts.  But this is why I can offer these amps for so cheap. Large orders.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 22 Nov 2017, 08:41 pm
6 channel amp is 430mm wide 330mm deep and 88mm tall.

So for us Yankees...about 17" W x 13"D x  3.5" H

I assume about 15lbs. or so?

Using the same case as for the 2-channel or is there something else being planned?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 08:43 pm
Yes. Yeah somewhere around 15lbs. It’s the same case only 100mm wider than the 2 channel. And I’m also milling cooling vents in the top/bottom panels.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 22 Nov 2017, 09:06 pm
So I'm in for the 6 channel in silver. How do I make a deposit? On your website I cannot add the 6 channel amp or outfit it.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 09:11 pm
So I'm in for the 6 channel in silver. How do I make a deposit? On your website I cannot add the 6 channel amp or outfit it.  :scratch:

Sounds good thanks. All you do is make a $100 deposit for now in the webshop. It’s the 2nd item on the list.

This will make 4 deposits, and another guy said he wanted 3 but no deposits yet. So if he places 3 deposits that means we are only 1 order away from filling the 1st 6 channel Lot. Both lots are very likely to fill by Monday. So it will likely be Monday when I request lead times.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 22 Nov 2017, 09:16 pm
Okay there’s 5 items you need for each amp:

1: Power cable
2: Speaker cable
3: Analog input cable
4: Binding posts
5: Analog input connectors (XLR or RCA)

Optional 6: (extra set of RCA or XLR. This comes with input wires on the $1 connector options for $35 extra. , But for the premium connectors you’ll need 2 sets of input wires. I’ll bill you the $35 later if you decide you want 2 sets of standard $1 input connectors.

Mix and match what you wish.

You only need 1 of each item for each amp.

Any chance of adding a mid-line option for binding posts?  The base look really base and the upgrade is a bit much for a 6-channel amp.  Perhaps something from Cardas or does Furutech have a lower cost option?  Thanks for considering  :)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 22 Nov 2017, 09:21 pm
Any chance of adding a mid-line option for binding posts?  The base look really base and the upgrade is a bit much for a 6-channel amp.  Perhaps something from Cardas or does Furutech have a lower cost option?  Thanks for considering  :)



Actually I just decided that I’m going to be upgrading the base option for all orders taken so far to a better binding post for free. It’s the gold plated pure copper CMC

http://www.audio-cmc.com/binding-posts/binding-posts-p_46.html

This will be the new $1 option.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171705)


The other ones were brass and not as good. Looked nice but quality not very good.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 22 Nov 2017, 09:29 pm


Actually I just decided that I’m going to be upgrading the base option for all orders taken so far to a better binding post for free. It’s the gold plated pure copper CMC

http://www.audio-cmc.com/binding-posts/binding-posts-p_46.html

This will be the new $1 option.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171705)


The other ones were brass and not as good. Looked nice but quality not very good.

Yes!!! Made my day. I’d been wondering about upgrading those myself. Just couldn’t spring the high cost of upgrading to the top end posts, but wanted something all copper. Awesome!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 22 Nov 2017, 10:27 pm
that's awesome those binding posts do look way better
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 22 Nov 2017, 11:52 pm
Agreed on the upgraded binding posts - thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 12:16 am
No problem. The first choice was kinda a fast decision on the fly. But after some research and with the volume I now know I have to order, this is a much better choice. It’s stupid to use high end copper cable with a cheap brass binding post. So I decided my minimum standard will be high purity gold plated copper.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 01:08 am
Another great thing about the CMC bindings posts is you now know everything you’re buying when purchasing these amps. No smoke and mirrors. You can research every single individual part and decide for yourself if competitors are using better parts at the price point. I’m all about transparency, and this is just another step towards that goal.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 23 Nov 2017, 01:20 am
Another great thing about the CMC bindings posts is you now know everything you’re buying when purchasing these amps. No smoke and mirrors. You can research every single individual part and decide for yourself if competitors are using better parts at the price point. I’m all about transparency, and this is just another step towards that goal.

Thanks Mike,

I will update my cables choices with these new binding posts. Have a great Thanksgiving :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 01:32 am
No problem. If anyone wants to upgrade anything before their amps ship out to then that’s fine. I ordered extra of everything so I will have the parts available.

Have a happy thanksgiving as well! Our Canadian thanksgiving was actually last month.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 23 Nov 2017, 01:45 am
How well will the zenwave cables work with this binding post?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 01:54 am
How well will the zenwave cables work with this binding post?

Just fine. Better than they would with a brass binding post. The better the components in the chain, the better. Brass is simply inferior as a conductive material no matter which cable you use. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 23 Nov 2017, 03:34 am


Actually I just decided that I’m going to be upgrading the base option for all orders taken so far to a better binding post for free. It’s the gold plated pure copper CMC

http://www.audio-cmc.com/binding-posts/binding-posts-p_46.html

This will be the new $1 option.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171705)


The other ones were brass and not as good. Looked nice but quality not very good.



Damn good call on the binding posts Mike and much appreciated! Looking forward to my new amp pair and I'll chime in for what it's worth......

I fully agree with Jay's notes on his listening experience earlier in the thread. After chatting with him and Don, I can understand why they were so excited during and after Saturday's listening session. I'm glad you could show up again on Sunday to Don's (the guy everyone's talking about but no one ever hears from..... come on Don post your impressions. You're worse than me. lol), I have to say that I really loved the sound. To be brief and add to Jay's experience, I found it extremely dynamic and able to deliver powerful transients with little effort. Could be the most lively sound I've heard.... yet smooth with no edge. Absolutely no offense to the ear at any volume. I looked that amplifier board up and down for a tube. None. Whaaaaattttt :)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 23 Nov 2017, 03:35 am
Mike, I had selected the brass binding posts yesterday with my parts order for the amp. Do I need to change anything to get the upgraded $1 binding post choice?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 04:22 am
No everyone who ordered the brass ones will be getting the copper ones now for no extra charge.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 04:25 am


Damn good call on the binding posts Mike and much appreciated! Looking forward to my new amp pair and I'll chime in for what it's worth......

I fully agree with Jay's notes on his listening experience earlier in the thread. After chatting with him and Don, I can understand why they were so excited during and after Saturday's listening session. I'm glad you could show up again on Sunday to Don's (the guy everyone's talking about but no one ever hears from..... come on Don post your impressions. You're worse than me. lol), I have to say that I really loved the sound. To be brief and add to Jay's experience, I found it extremely dynamic and able to deliver powerful transients with little effort. Could be the most lively sound I've heard.... yet smooth with no edge. Absolutely no offense to the ear at any volume. I looked that amplifier board up and down for a tube. None. Whaaaaattttt :)

Thanks for the impressions Paul! And you know the cables and connectors we were using as well. Just imagine with all Furutech/Neotech!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 23 Nov 2017, 04:34 am
Thanks for the impressions Paul! And you know the cables and connectors we were using as well. Just imagine with all Furutech/Neotech!

Damn your a good salesman. I'm leaning in that direction. Whattya think about the Keg?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 04:46 am
Damn your a good salesman. I'm leaning in that direction. Whattya think about the Keg?

Well quality sells itself! I’m thinking the Keg would be great. Why do you want to go tonight?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 23 Nov 2017, 05:24 am
No problem. If anyone wants to upgrade anything before their amps ship out to then that’s fine. I ordered extra of everything so I will have the parts available.

Have a happy thanksgiving as well! Our Canadian thanksgiving was actually last month.
Oops my bad, I forgot you are in Canada :duh:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 23 Nov 2017, 08:33 am
To be brief and add to Jay's experience, I found it extremely dynamic and able to deliver powerful transients with little effort. Could be the most lively sound I've heard.... yet smooth with no edge. Absolutely no offense to the ear at any volume. I looked that amplifier board up and down for a tube. None. Whaaaaattttt :)

That is why I have been interested in amplifiers with a high slew rate for a long time like class D, because I think they are the most appropriate for playing orchestral music, how much I ear.

The ideal would be the sound of a good class A like F5 with 2SK2013/2SJ313 from Juma (and with capacitance multipler like the USSA-5 amp from Fab) with such a high dynamic and power to move speakers without high sensitivity but it is not possible.

With the appropriate preamp or/and with digital filters -in a computer with low noise (electric, electronic and mechanic), low jitter and highly optimized operating system for multimedia like mine- we can find the sound profile that most suits us, I think.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 23 Nov 2017, 04:39 pm
No everyone who ordered the brass ones will be getting the copper ones now for no extra charge.

Thanks Mike,  A nice birthday and Thanksgiving present for me. Both are today and I will celebrate by WORKING!  :(  Fortunately my neighbors invited me for Thanksgiving supper. I will be hungry.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 05:17 pm
No problem. Happy bday! And happy thanksgiving to all Americans!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 08:49 pm
Regarding the CMC Binding posts, they make a brass version that looks identical for half the price. The way to tell them apart is the pure copper ones say “Swiss CU” on the side. So always look for “Swiss CU” when choosing CMC Binding posts.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171759)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 23 Nov 2017, 09:21 pm
With all the upgrades being offered, what is being used for the plug on the power cord?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 09:34 pm
With all the upgrades being offered, what is being used for the plug on the power cord?

I’m only shipping the amps with cheap standard power cords. The power cables in my webshop are the internal power cables not external. Most external Power cables using the Furutech S55N cable cost around $1000. Dave at Zenwave has about the best deal you can find here:

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/furutech-fp-s55n-10-gauge-power-cable-nano-particle-fluid-enhancement/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 23 Nov 2017, 09:37 pm
How about the iec inlet? Could we send you an upgraded inlet if we wanted one?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 09:41 pm
If you can find a switched inlet that fits perfect in a 27.6x31.6 mm cutout then I could.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 09:54 pm
Here’s the cutouts for the Swiss made Schurter inlet I’m using:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171761)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 23 Nov 2017, 10:01 pm
Well at least it's Swiss made. The PRAT should be outstanding... :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 10:28 pm
Well it’s better than what you find in many $20000+ Stereophile class A rated amps. Nobody complains about them combined with their $10000 power cables.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 10:43 pm
Here’s a $20000 example with Schurter IEC inlet, Neutrik DLX xlr’s and CMC copper binding posts.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171763)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 23 Nov 2017, 10:46 pm
those binding posts have that clear plastic nipple to make twisting them down onto spades easier..  not sure how I Feel about those, never had something that used them
edit:  whoa just noticed dartzeel has some proprietary BNC based analog input?  I Guess to compete with krell CAST
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 10:48 pm
Try out the Dart at a local dealer. If it sounds poor order the Furutech’s. The Furutech’s are no doubt superior, but it usually takes over $50000 of retail amp to see them used.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 23 Nov 2017, 11:03 pm
I’m only shipping the amps with cheap standard power cords. The power cables in my webshop are the internal power cables not external. Most external Power cables using the Furutech S55N cable cost around $1000. Dave at Zenwave has about the best deal you can find here:

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/furutech-fp-s55n-10-gauge-power-cable-nano-particle-fluid-enhancement/

Mike,  I know this might get too confusing to be practical but as far as I am concerned, keep the PC.  I already have a junk box full of OEM-supplied PCs.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 11:07 pm
I’ll ask everyone via email before I ship out the amps if they want the cheap power cable.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 23 Nov 2017, 11:19 pm
I’ll ask everyone via email before I ship out the amps if they want the cheap power cable.

Its the "green thing" to do.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 11:21 pm
Parts are arriving! This should get me through a week or 2 :)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171764)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 23 Nov 2017, 11:26 pm
Here’s a $20000 example with Schurter IEC inlet, Neutrik DLX xlr’s and CMC copper binding posts.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171763)

Well, if the Schurter is good enough for a $20k Dartzeel I guess it can be good enough for me.  :lol:

Thanks Mike for taking everything into consideration. Not too many are willing to offer silver and gold wire and connectors as options for us audio nuts so thanks for indulging us. Definitely looking forward to hearing this amp.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 11:27 pm
The Furutech parts aren’t here yet. But you can see how the Neutrik RCA screws out of the housing and allows me to swap with the Furutech. This means I must buy a pair of each to make the Furutech RCA’s.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171765)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 23 Nov 2017, 11:29 pm
Well, if the Schurter is good enough for a $20k Dartzeel I guess it can be good enough for me.  :lol:

Thanks Mike for taking everything into consideration. Not too many are willing to offer silver and gold wire and connectors as options for us audio nuts so thanks for indulging us. Definitely looking forward to hearing this amp.

No problem. I think the options I have available now are enough. Folks who want to spend more are better off sinking it into other areas of their system. They will yield higher returns for their dollar.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 12:14 am
Dart inlet here:

https://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Schurter%2f61003300%2f&qs=sGAEpiMZZMslPglT%2fXeKq3zfIwGLj0wUMfIvCYgkr5o%3d

My inlet here:


https://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Schurter%2fDC110021001%2f&qs=sGAEpiMZZMv1TUPJeFpwblxZ%252bgbqW48rrbjPT9pb1Dw%3d
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 12:24 am
I’m like a kid in a candy store today :)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171766)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: joey116 on 24 Nov 2017, 12:31 am
Will there be sales tax for Ontario residents?
Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 12:32 am
Yes
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 02:02 am
$144000 gets you Schurter and Neutrik inputs as well:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171767)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 24 Nov 2017, 03:38 am
Mike,

I must ask you to further explain the steps involved with swapping (I believe I'm going to say it correctly) the Furutech XLR with the Furutech RCA. I ask because I do not know what is involved, and because I've been second guessing my initial choice of FT 903G RCA connectors. I don't know enough about the ease or difficulty in swapping to make an informed decision.

Do I want to have the ability to swap XLR for RCA depending on which DAC or preamp I buy(?), or do I want to limit myself to RCA? Or should I just stop second guessing myself and go find a kickass DAC/pre that uses RCAs to connect to this puppy?

[Edit: Thank you, Mike, for your speedy reply. I'll eventually decide how I want to handle this.]

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 04:18 am
Mike,

I must ask you to further explain the steps involved with swapping (I believe I'm going to say it correctly) the Furutech XLR with the Furutech RCA. I ask because I do not know what is involved, and because I've been second guessing my initial choice of FT 903G RCA connectors. I don't know enough about the ease or difficulty in swapping to make an informed decision.

Do I want to have the ability to swap XLR for RCA depending on which DAC or preamp I buy(?), or do I want to limit myself to RCA? Or should I just stop second guessing myself and go find a kickass DAC/pre that uses RCAs to connect to this puppy?

Swapping between them will be very easy:

Step 1: Remove the  4 screws from the back panel that hold the connectors on
Step 2: Unplug the wiring harness from the amp,
Step 3: reverse step 1 and 2 with the other connectors.

Both sets will have the cables and amp connectors soldered on already. So the swap is extremely simple. And not needing to use XLR to RCA adapters keeps the signal path pure, and less connections in the chain. I'll share pictures of the complete input assemblies once I get some built.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 24 Nov 2017, 05:03 am
Mike, I’ve placed my parts order and have ordered xlr. Am I able to add the extra rca connectors too so I can swap them out if needed as you just pointed out above?
Thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 05:17 am
Mike, I’ve placed my parts order and have ordered xlr. Am I able to add the extra rca connectors too so I can swap them out if needed as you just pointed out above?
Thanks,
Bill

Yes I added "additional inputs" to the bottom of my list in my webshop. These are the complete input connector, cable and amp connectors pre-soldered and pre-terminated. By default they all come with Mogami cables, but if you want to upgrade the cable, just add your premium input cable of choice to the cart along with it.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 24 Nov 2017, 08:40 am
I use Schurter inlets in ALL my DC Blockers, cables with Schaffner RF/EMI filters + Schurter IEC and in the power strip that I recommended to others because they are very good. It is necessary to be scrupulous in the selection of the components.

Like Neutrik is a winning bet. And wall Schneider plugs of the power strips and DCB too. And the big EPCOS capacitors, star quad cables and...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 09:15 am
Excellent Maty!

Okay I ordered the CMC copper binding posts. I had to order without engraving on them because it was going to take 2-3 weeks extra to have "CMC" and "Swiss Cu" engraved on them. I didn't think you guys would want your amps held up over engraving on the binding posts. I was quoted 2-3 weeks which is earlier than the lot 1-2-3 cases are due to ship. DHL 2-3 day shipping.

These are the model I ordered:

http://www.audio-cmc.com/binding-posts/binding-posts-p_46.html

I ordered 500 unit's so I'm good for 125 amps now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 24 Nov 2017, 11:50 am
 :D still standing by for my refund ,   This is not right. Was it two weeks ago ?
          Paypal ain't that slow ?  Come on !  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 02:33 pm
The money left my PayPal account and went back to yours on the 14th. I have the record. Did you check your PayPal account? I’ll phone PayPal and post a recorded clip of the conversation if you want.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171770)

Is that not you? Please post a picture of our PayPal transaction history. This will prove I refunded you.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171771)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 24 Nov 2017, 03:02 pm
 :D paypal ain't no bodies pal anymore.   So outdated and slow and a rip off. 
         Cancel that non-existence transaction and send an etransfer ....  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 03:07 pm
:D paypal ain't no bodies pal anymore.   So outdated and slow and a rip off. 
         Cancel that non-existence transaction and send an etransfer ....  :D

I can’t cancel money that’s already been returned. It’s already gone from my account and into yours. Once again post a screenshot of our transaction history from your PayPal account.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 05:06 pm
Hi Guys,

Please if you have no intentions on buying this amp, don’t leave a deposit. Once the lots fill, I will get a parts lead time quote from all suppliers. Following that I will send out emails to folks who left deposits notifying them of the parts lead time, and that I'll be opening my webshop to take the orders. Once everyone responds and approves of the quoted supplier lead times, I will open the webshop to take the orders. Once all orders are in, I will order all the parts from the suppliers. Anyone who doesn’t respond to this email within 24 hours will have their deposit refunded. Any funds you paid from your PayPal balance will instantly return to your balance when I refund. If you paid the deposit by credit card, it can take different time frames to appear on your account based on your credit card provider.   This is no different than when you get refunds to your credit card from anywhere. I’ve had authorizations on my card from hotels take 2 weeks to drop of my credit card before.

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 05:29 pm
I have posted the terms and conditions of the deposits on my homepage:

www.miveraaudio.com
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 24 Nov 2017, 05:34 pm
Here’s the cutouts for the Swiss made Schurter inlet I’m using:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171761)

Bavmike - do you have any experience with the filtered Schurter inlets?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 05:37 pm
Bavmike - do you have any experience with the filtered Schurter inlets?

No only the Schaffner filters. I use one in my Purestream DAC. However I don't think they are needed with this amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 07:20 pm
I decided in the new year I’m going to offer an option of 2 day leadtime at a 30% premium over the group buy price. This will be a good option for folks who want their amp ASAP and cost isn’t an issue.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: richidoo on 24 Nov 2017, 09:10 pm
Great capitalist idea!  :thumb

Will you be selling the other, smaller wattage AS modules in the future?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 09:19 pm
You know what the little 100AS module is very impressive as well. It uses the TI 3251 class D chip. It’s a brand new module as well. Before this 1200AS amp, it was the best Icepower my ears ever heard. The power reserves are incredible for the size. It can fit in a tiny case.

Here it is beside the 700AS and Hypex NC502MP:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171777)

Build quality is very nice with all premium caps, and same bottom heatsink as the 1200:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171778)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171779)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171780)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171781)

It’s a product I would stand behind, and I’m open to open a lot based on it with enough interest.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 24 Nov 2017, 09:22 pm
Hmnm, maybe Iam old school, but I always thought a deposit was a commitment to buy. If I dont proceed then I loose the deposit.
Otherwise, whats the point of the deposit? Other than money going back and forth through paypal.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 09:26 pm
Hmnm, maybe Iam old school, but I always thought a deposit was a commitment to buy. If I dont proceed then I loose the deposit.
Otherwise, whats the point of the deposit? Other than money going back and forth through paypal.

You know what it’s not worth any argument for me. I made the terms clear, if I don’t hear a response back in 24 hours after the lot fills I’ll just refund it. I’ll have their spot replaced within a few hours anyways.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 24 Nov 2017, 09:30 pm
I remember reading that the key to Schaffner's success is based in his inductances. In any case, when years ago I had investigated very carefully about RF/EMI filters, Schaffner had the best specifications. And Würth in ferrites (to work in audio: RF or < 1 Mhz).

In very fast amplifiers like those in class D the use of these filters maybe cause a dynamics loss.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 09:35 pm
Yes I recall Bruno saying do not use EMI filters with the Ncore amps. This Icepower is engineered superbly to preform at top level on its own. The 129dB SNR is just plugged straight to the wall. I can’t imagine anyone listening to this amp and thinking anything needs to be cleaned up. Unless it’s noise coming from their source gear.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 24 Nov 2017, 09:44 pm
Ncore and Icepower are very clean unlike many other cheap class D amps that are so popular (only sound good on subwoofers and woofers and not so much with tweeters). It is those who give the bad reputation to technology.

The problem with the RF/EMI (N & I) is outside the amp. That is why I insist on the use of star quad cables to prevent cables (interconnection or power) acting as antennas.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 10:12 pm
Ncore and Icepower are very clean unlike many other cheap class D amps that are so popular (only sound good on subwoofers and woofers and not so much with tweeters). It is those who give the bad reputation to technology.

The problem with the RF/EMI (N & I) is outside the amp. That is why I insist on the use of star quad cables to prevent cables (interconnection or power) acting as antennas.

Well my Mogami input cable option is star quad. And it will be wired properly. However I think the star quad advantage is mainly in studio/pro applications where ultra long cable runs are used.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 24 Nov 2017, 10:25 pm
The 6 channel Lot would be filled right now if a fellow who inquired about 3 units decides to pull the trigger.

2 channel Lot is up to 18 deposits. 6 left.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 24 Nov 2017, 11:44 pm
Well my Mogami input cable option is star quad. And it will be wired properly. However I think the star quad advantage is mainly in studio/pro applications where ultra long cable runs are used.

Star quad has more ability to reject noise vs twisted pair but also more capacitance, what's best depends on the application.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 25 Nov 2017, 12:58 am
The 6 channel Lot would be filled right now if a fellow who inquired about 3 units decides to pull the trigger.

Well my curiosity is piqued.  What in the world does one do with 18 channels of 1200 Watts?!  :scratch:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 01:23 am
Not sure. Perhaps resell locally to folks who haven’t discovered this thread? Or maybe a big theatre setup.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 02:23 am
So far 237600 Iceedge watts have been sold :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 25 Nov 2017, 02:33 am
I must have missed it - whats the price for the 6 channel version?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 02:35 am
$2100 in silver and $2140 in black. They’re on my website.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 25 Nov 2017, 02:41 am
$2100 in silver and $2140 in black. They’re on my website.

Where exactly is that at? All I see is price for parts and the $100 amp deposit.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 02:42 am
5th and 6th item on the list.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 25 Nov 2017, 02:45 am
I see. You have to click on it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 02:47 am
Yeah it will be much better when I have actual pictures of the finished products up.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 25 Nov 2017, 09:10 am
Star quad has more ability to reject noise vs twisted pair but also more capacitance, what's best depends on the application.

The more capacitance is not a problem if you do not use very long cables or amplifiers bad designed or audiophile not ready to work under normal conditions.

By the way, the inductance may be a problem with speakers cables in the high frequencies. To solve it, the cables construction geometry is the solution again. That is why I use Kimber Kable 8PR cables (I could not resist an offer that lowers the price x3 years ago: only €7 / m) with my cheap KEF Q100 speakers.

Image added

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/kimber-kable-8pr.jpg

Graphs and measures:

http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/kimber-kable-8pr/kk4pr-8prmeasurements

You can obtain better measures with DIY vs expensive KK 8TR:

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/DIY-Braided-Speaker-Cables/

The geometry is more important than the conductor I think. Maybe this geometry with Neotech UPOCC and silver... is an unexploited market niche I think. Teflon coated (PTFE) off course.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 25 Nov 2017, 10:00 am
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold speaker cable

https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/neotech-up-occ-silver-gold-speaker-cable

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a72bad_d9e9454dad7d4e78a5e23a22c3d25f0b~mv2.jpg)

Quote
This is Dave from Zenwave Audio's special silver/gold UP-OCC blend multi-strand teflon coated cables. Our finest speaker cable option. If this is the speaker cable you want installed in your amp, add to cart along with your amp order. You need to add 1 to cart for each amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: richidoo on 25 Nov 2017, 02:43 pm
Is this the enclosure to be used for this group buy? They will look exactly like this?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171003)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 02:49 pm
That’s the same enclosure type. Only much bigger. 330x330x88mm. And no power button on the front. However if I made a 100as group buy it could fit in that exact same enclosure. That small enclosure is 280x230x44mm.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 25 Nov 2017, 03:01 pm
Neotech UP-OCC silver/gold speaker cable

https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/neotech-up-occ-silver-gold-speaker-cable

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a72bad_d9e9454dad7d4e78a5e23a22c3d25f0b~mv2.jpg)

That pic is of the 1st D3 IC cable made about 4-5 years ago. It uses completely different wire now... the clear wire is the standard silver/gold wire with PE insulation and the red wire is UPOCC copper. Now, the cable is made with solid-core/teflon-insulated silver/gold wire and 6 runs of smaller gauge UPOCC copper for the ground leg.

 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 03:01 pm
Regarding using the front button for this amp. It may look nice. But what it means to use it is the main power cable that feeds the amp must run from the IEC inlet, to the front button. From there it must pass through tiny little contacts and connectors on the switch, power the LED with the same power, then out to the amp. This means a bunch more internal power cable as well. Good luck soldering the 10 gauge Furutech S55N to those tiny little solder tabs. So what a waste of good cable to pass it through that switch. The 1200AS is a high current amp. You want a short cable run, and direct to the amp module as possible.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 03:03 pm
That pic is of the 1st D3 IC cable made about 4-5 years ago. It uses completely different wire now... the clear wire is the standard silver/gold wire with PE insulation and the red wire is UPOCC copper. Now, the cable is made with solid-core/teflon-insulated silver/gold wire and 6 runs of smaller gauge UPOCC copper for the ground leg.

Yeah I only grabbed that photo as an example because I didn’t have an actual photo yet. My silver/gold options will be pure silver/gold and all strands the same color.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: hi5harry on 25 Nov 2017, 03:07 pm
I just want to mention we are in good hands with Dave offering his cable to this project. I've bought Furetech NCF receptacles from him and his assessment of their attributes was spot on. I PM'd him asking if maybe he might just offer a captive cord with some of that fantastic Furutech S55 or maybe the new Furutech DPS-4 power cord with a nice end on it. I realize it adds a lot to the price BUT it's all that's left to do. One less connection ( actually several) no wire to chassis iec, no wire to the power cord iec connection, then the connection when we plug the two together (with unlike metals and hope for the best)? One continuous cord makes a nice difference in sound and is cheaper. Then we can splurge on the wall plug side.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 03:15 pm
I just want to mention we are in good hands with Dave offering his cable to this project. I've bought Furetech NCF receptacles from him and his assessment of their attributes was spot on. I PM'd him asking if maybe he might just offer a captive cord with some of that fantastic Furutech S55 or maybe the new Furutech DPS-4 power cord with a nice end on it. I realize it adds a lot to the price BUT it's all that's left to do. One less connection ( actually several) no wire to chassis iec, no wire to the power cord iec connection, then the connection when we plug the two together (with unlike metals and hope for the best)? One continuous cord makes a nice difference in sound and is cheaper. Then we can splurge on the wall plug side.

Yeah but then there’s no power switch. You’d need to turn it on and off by plugging and unplugging. Then there’s no fuse either. Yes I know the probability of the thick insulated cable shorting out on the case between the inlet and amp is about the same as getting struck by lightning 100 times on a sunny day. But you can bet someone would pipe up and say it’s unsafe and scare a bunch of people away from buying it. Also you need a chassis ground connected to the mains earth.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 03:35 pm
However if Dave wanted to offer that option for folks who want to use it he could. Once the amp is in your possession you can do what you want. You would need to connect the ground to the chassis though. And he would need to get some plates made with a grommet hole in the middle that fit in my IEC inlet cutout.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: hi5harry on 25 Nov 2017, 03:43 pm
I understand it might be a hassle . I saw the power button in front and was thinking of an "in line" fuse holder from the captive S55 strain relief. I built a couple power cords with the Furutech S55 wire (they have a new DPS 4 now) and was really pleased with the flavor they added. I think it would compliment our amps nicely.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 03:46 pm
I understand it might be a hassle . I saw the power button in front and was thinking of an "in line" fuse holder from the captive S55 strain relief. I built a couple power cords with the Furutech S55 wire (they have a new DPS 4 now) and was really pleased with the flavor they added. I think it would compliment our amps nicely.

Well there’s no doubt the direct feed would be nice. But if I don’t follow the regulations of how things should be built, competitors will be all over it. Fear mongering people that their lives are on the line buying this amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: richidoo on 25 Nov 2017, 03:58 pm
That’s the same enclosure type. Only much bigger. 330x330x88mm.

That's approximately 13" x 13" x 3.5". That's still pretty small for 2400W. 

Is the power supply part of the amp PCB, separate PS board?

It is a B&O designed PS, right?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 04:03 pm
That's approximately 13" x 13" x 3.5". That's still pretty small for 2400W. 

Is the power supply part of the amp PCB, separate PS board?

It is a B&O designed PS, right?

It’s a huge case for this amp. The heatsink directly couples to the case. Here’s some examples of other class D amps with similar power.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171817)



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171818)


This isn’t a 20% efficient class A amp. It’s close to 90% efficient. Yes all parts are on a single board.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: hi5harry on 25 Nov 2017, 04:04 pm
I really appreciate your expertise in picking great parts, case, wire options, and such a nice layout. you are right in the fact they should be built correctly. I've been in on a couple of these " launches" and they are really fun because we all get our amps about the same time. A lot of audiophile with a lot of power cords! There will be a lot of people playing with these things. This should be fun!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: richidoo on 25 Nov 2017, 04:52 pm
Thanks Mike,
Being class D, this is inherently single ended topology right? What's the BAL/SE input conversion like, can you see which IC is used, or is that all on the ASIC?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 25 Nov 2017, 05:04 pm
Thanks Mike,
Being class D, this is inherently single ended topology right? What's the BAL/SE input conversion like, can you see which IC is used, or is that all on the ASIC?

I do not have extensive experience with Class D but the two amps I tried, and others I looked at, were all balanced input only. I am surprised that Mike is also offering single-ended.  My ICs are XLR so I am going that way with my order.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 25 Nov 2017, 05:05 pm
We can see two cheap? ferrites: speakers and power zones.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/amp-class-d-ferrites.jpg)

PS: I have optimized the image to better appreciate the details.

PS2: the speakers' ferrite reminded me the Würth 150 kHz ferrite that I added to the KEF Q100 woofer cables.

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-styroflex-bypass.jpg
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 25 Nov 2017, 05:15 pm
I do not have extensive experience with Class D but the two amps I tried, and others I looked at, were all balanced input only. I am surprised that Mike is also offering single-ended.  My ICs are XLR so I am going that way with my order.

Pretty much all D amps are balanced these days but most or all will accept a SE input simply by using the "hot" or non-inverted balanced input.

Those who want to can install SE>BAL trafos but it's really hard to say if this will make for an improvement. It will make things worse if you use a cheapo trafo with some claiming only high $ trafos that cost more than the amp are truly transparent. I use Jensen on my Hypex amps but use them mostly for powering woofers... and I can't say the NC500s sound good vs my Odyssey Stratos when used full-range, so they will remain mostly for bass duty, where they perform the best anyways.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 05:37 pm
I really appreciate your expertise in picking great parts, case, wire options, and such a nice layout. you are right in the fact they should be built correctly. I've been in on a couple of these " launches" and they are really fun because we all get our amps about the same time. A lot of audiophile with a lot of power cords! There will be a lot of people playing with these things. This should be fun!

Yes I can’t wait for the loads of feedback! I’ll need a circle open to make an impressions thread.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 05:43 pm
Thanks Mike,
Being class D, this is inherently single ended topology right? What's the BAL/SE input conversion like, can you see which IC is used, or is that all on the ASIC?

No problem. No it’s 100% balanced from front to back. To convert to single ended you just tie the ground to the -.  This is all 100% brand new Icepower Iceedge ASIC’s. Best to read to brochure to learn more:

https://icepower.dk/download/1621/

This isn’t just a small incremental leap for Icepower. It’s actually a 13 year leap in technology. All previous products use their circa 2004 ICCX chip. We are in another universe with Iceedge.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 05:46 pm
Pretty much all D amps are balanced these days but most or all will accept a SE input simply by using the "hot" or non-inverted balanced input.

Those who want to can install SE>BAL trafos but it's really hard to say if this will make for an improvement. It will make things worse if you use a cheapo trafo with some claiming only high $ trafos that cost more than the amp are truly transparent. I use Jensen on my Hypex amps but use them mostly for powering woofers... and I can't say the NC500s sound good vs my Odyssey Stratos when used full-range, so they will remain mostly for bass duty, where they perform the best anyways.

A client of mine is using those Jensen iso-max transformers to isolate his grounds going to his sub amps from his mains out of his Slagleformer’s. I recommend this because I didn’t want the ultra clean ground from my Purestream dac getting contaminated by the plate amp ground. However I’m not sure if I would want this in the signal path of my main speakers.

MSB sells similar transformer isolators to combat the same problem:

http://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/sub-isolator-features/

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 25 Nov 2017, 05:49 pm
I understand it might be a hassle . I saw the power button in front and was thinking of an "in line" fuse holder from the captive S55 strain relief. I built a couple power cords with the Furutech S55 wire (they have a new DPS 4 now) and was really pleased with the flavor they added. I think it would compliment our amps nicely.

When I had the Nord amps the one power cable that seemed to really make them sing was the Furutech S55N. I've kept one of the S55N cables on standby and will see if it performs with this amp like it did with the Nords. I also opted for the S55N internal wire.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 25 Nov 2017, 05:54 pm
A client of mine is using those Jensen iso-max transformers to isolate his grounds going to his sub amps from his mains out of his Slagleformer’s. I recommend this because I didn’t want the ultra clean ground from my Purestream dac getting contaminated by the plate amp ground. However I’m not sure if I would want this in the signal path of my main speakers.

MSB sells similar transformer isolators to combat the same problem:

http://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/sub-isolator-features/

Yeah, isolation was a primary consideration I forgot to mention as well, and can make for improvements right there. I'm not sure about wanting the Jensens in the signal path of the mains either... you can certainly spend more on trafos!   :green:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 05:58 pm
When I had the Nord amps the one power cable that seemed to really make them sing was the Furutech S55N. I've kept one of the S55N cables on standby and will see if it performs with this amp like it did with the Nords. I also opted for the S55N internal wire.

Yeah going S55N right to the amp direct with no front button switch in the path should be incredible! Will definitely beat the Electrolux vacuum cable soldered to the Icepower sample power cable I used to demo the amps!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 25 Nov 2017, 06:03 pm
Yeah going S55N right to the amp direct with no front button switch in the path should be incredible! Will definitely beat the Electrolux vacuum cable soldered to the Icepower sample power cable I used to demo the amps!

I'm just a little disappointed there's no option for the shamwow...maybe the special edition model. :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 06:04 pm
I'm just a little disappointed there's no option for the shamwow...maybe the special edition model. :lol:

I spoke to Vince. Might be able to make it happen yet! I hear he cleaned up his act after this incident:


http://www.seanpaune.com/2009/03/27/vince-shlomi-the-shamwow-guy-arrested-for-beating-a-hooker/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Oscillate on 25 Nov 2017, 08:13 pm
Placed my deposit for the 'Icepower 1200AS2-6 channel amp Lot #1'
yesterday. Going with a black case and the full Monty on the premium
parts choices :)

For anyone looking for a high quality HT amp that will also do music well,
this is a no-brainer. I currently have a pair of Nord One UP NC500MBs with
the the Sparkos Labs SS3602 opamps ...and really enjoy the sound! If this
6 channel Icepower 1200AS2 will just equal that (not even have to better it),
then I will be a satisfied customer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 08:40 pm
Thanks for the order. Having designed that Nord input buffer as Gen 1 of 8 NC-500 based input buffers, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised:)

Here’s some early gen NC-500 input buffer prototypes followed by the Nord reproduction:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171834)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171835)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171836)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171837)


At that point Colin hadn’t tried the SIL-994 yet. But ended up being the most popular Nord one up option.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 25 Nov 2017, 08:45 pm
The SI 994 is the buffer I had on the Nords. Could you wet our appetite with a comparison with the 1200as?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 25 Nov 2017, 08:50 pm
I'll save those comparisons for you guys. It's been a while since I heard that buffer. I advanced 7 more generations after that yielding large sonic improvements with every generation. Finally I stopped at gen 8 and it's what was used in my Purepower integrated amp. Audiogeek2 owns the 1 and only, along with the Nord One up with Sil-994 to drive his woofer section. And he just ordered one of these amps as well. I'm very excited for his comparisons of all 3.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 26 Nov 2017, 12:16 am
Iam looking forward to that comparison. When we were designing the amp we were initially going to use the new icepower modules, but they took lmost a year to make it into production. Glad I didnt wait!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 26 Nov 2017, 01:52 am
I’m glad you didn’t wait as well. Because I’m too lazy to build another 8th gen NC-500 amp to compare it to. I’ll need to just trust your ears. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 26 Nov 2017, 06:48 pm
So I have 19-2 channel amp deposits and 6-6 channel amp deposits. Combined that’s a big enough order to order parts. So tomorrow I’m going to get parts lead times for all 24 Lot 4-2 channel amps, and all 8 Lot 1-6 channel amps. Then I will send out the emails to all that left deposits. Once they place their orders, I’m going to order all the parts for 24-2 channel amps and 8-6 channel amps. If there’s still some available after tomorrow, people can just buy direct with no deposit to get in on this batch. Once sold out I’ll open deposits for lot 5-2 channel and Lot 2-6 channel.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ksbruce on 26 Nov 2017, 08:33 pm
That’s the same enclosure type. Only much bigger. 330x330x88mm. And no power button on the front. However if I made a 100as group buy it could fit in that exact same enclosure. That small enclosure is 280x230x44mm.

I would be interested in a 100as group buy.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 26 Nov 2017, 08:39 pm
Okay once my circle is open I’ll start a lot. Price will be $500 in silver and $530 in black. Fully assembled with 10 year warranty. All same connector/cable options as 1200AS.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 26 Nov 2017, 09:44 pm
Okay once my circle is open I’ll start a lot. Price will be $500 in silver and $530 in black. Fully assembled with 10 year warranty. All same connector/cable options as 1200AS.

WHEN?????? This thread is getting ridiculous. :)

-dave
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 26 Nov 2017, 09:45 pm
WHEN?????? This thread is getting ridiculous. :)

-dave
 

Dave,  I disagree with your verb tense.  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 26 Nov 2017, 09:59 pm
The rules say I must wait a minimum of 30 days after staring a thread in industry introductions before I can sign up as an industry contributor and start a circle.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: SFDude on 26 Nov 2017, 10:35 pm
Dave,  I disagree with your verb tense.  :lol:

 :lol: :green:

I would have thought Mivera Audio already being an Industry Participant, Mike would have gotten this all settled sooner than later. Let me know who's door I need to knock on to make it happen! We can get some semblance of normalcy when the kits come and can start some individual threads on the construction of it, listening impressions, even *gasp* mods that others might find promising!  :green:

The rules say I must wait a minimum of 30 days after staring a thread in industry introductions before I can sign up as an industry contributor and start a circle.

It feels like it's been several months!!!  :lol:


-dave
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 26 Nov 2017, 11:43 pm
Mike,

How hot do these amps get at idle and while playing at modest levels?  I am reading the PDF paper and it talks a lot about protection from over heating. Is that mostly for the benefit of amps used at high power in commercial applications?

I always thought Ice was a comment on their cool operating temperatures.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 26 Nov 2017, 11:48 pm
 :) still waiting for a refund ,, not sure about this dude ..... :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 12:09 am
:lol: :green:

I would have thought Mivera Audio already being an Industry Participant, Mike would have gotten this all settled sooner than later. Let me know who's door I need to knock on to make it happen! We can get some semblance of normalcy when the kits come and can start some individual threads on the construction of it, listening impressions, even *gasp* mods that others might find promising!  :green:

It feels like it's been several months!!!  :lol:


-dave

I’ll send an PM again. But last PM my reply was a link to the terms and conditions.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 12:11 am
Mike,

How hot do these amps get at idle and while playing at modest levels?  I am reading the PDF paper and it talks a lot about protection from over heating. Is that mostly for the benefit of amps used at high power in commercial applications?

I always thought Ice was a comment on their cool operating temperatures.

The probability of the temp protection kicking in is very unlikely. However it’s there to protect the amp if it happens to overheat. I’m supplying far more heatsink than is required for this amp in this big case.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 12:13 am
:) still waiting for a refund ,, not sure about this dude ..... :D

Pascal I’ve already proven twice that I refunded you. Your last complaint was on Friday, and it’s been the weekend since. Once again share a screenshot of our PayPal transaction history if your goal is to scare people from dealing with me.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 27 Nov 2017, 12:14 am
:) still waiting for a refund ,, not sure about this dude ..... :D

2bigears,

Have you approached Paypal or whichever credit card company that you linked to Paypal over this matter? It seems to me you could get more information that way. In particular, if you use a credit card with Paypal, that company will have the resources to track down the payment, don't you think?





Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 12:30 am
Okay I’m going to change my deposit terms and conditions. Rather than refunding deposits if I receive no response after the Lot fills, I’ll just bump the deposit to the next lot. No deposit refunds. So placing a deposit means you committed to buying an amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 01:19 am
Deposit terms and conditions updated and posted on my home page:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtwrace on 27 Nov 2017, 01:23 am
If you're only selling complete amps I'd strongly recommend you just putting a drop down for each option and the amp just builds itself with the cost.  It makes way more sense that way.  Are you charging for the assembled option after all the previous preorders though?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 01:38 am
If you're only selling complete amps I'd strongly recommend you just putting a drop down for each option and the amp just builds itself with the cost.  It makes way more sense that way.  Are you charging for the assembled option after all the previous preorders though?

I’m only selling complete amps now. But folks who ordered kits earlier will get kits. I would love to just have all of the options right in the amp order box. But this web host doesn’t allow me to add options for additional cost. I’ve tried and it’s pretty stupid. I’ve paid up till Feb for this website, but I’ll probably be changing it to something better before then. There’s lots of things I like, but many limitations.

If you look at Vinni Rossi’s Lio page, that’s how I would like it to work.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 01:49 am
@ 2bigears. Here's the detailed Paypal refund info with transaction number. Phone Paypal and quote the transaction ID number for details. The paypal phone number is: 1 (402) 935-2050


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171919)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dadbeh on 27 Nov 2017, 01:54 am
@ 2bigears. Here's the detailed Paypal refund info with transaction number. Phone Paypal and quote the transaction ID number for details. The paypal phone number is: 1 (402) 935-2050


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171919)

it says that his account is not verified so paypal is probably keeping the balance until he verifies his address. but its not your problem you have done your part. the rest of it is on him.
this is one of the reasons that i have refused to use paypal for the last 3 years.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 02:00 am
No it doesn't need to be verified to get a refund. You can pay with Paypal via credit card or debit card without even having a Paypal account. But if you use a credit or debit card, refunds don't happen instantly. And this is regardless of who's doing the refunding. Not just Paypal. Here's the Paypal terms regarding refunds:

 https://www.paypal.com/ca/selfhelp/article/where-is-my-refund-faq1212

Read this line very carefully:

"Refunds to credit or debit cards can take up to 30 days depending on the card company involved."

The bottom line is if you don't want an amp, don't leave a deposit. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 27 Nov 2017, 02:06 am
Mike. Thanks for stopping thru to help with my network troubleshooting today....... umm, I mean doing my troubleshooting. Hope the family dinner is tasty!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 02:14 am
Mike. Thanks for stopping thru to help with my network troubleshooting today....... umm, I mean doing my troubleshooting. Hope the family dinner is tasty!

No problem. I can't wait to pop in with the 1200AS later this week to give it a try on your Audionote speakers!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 27 Nov 2017, 06:02 am
No problem. I can't wait to pop in with the 1200AS later this week to give it a try on your Audionote speakers!

Haha...... and my Mivera stack?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 06:06 am
Yes that too. How’s it sounding tonight?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 06:44 am
Heard from Takachi. They’re quoting mid January lead times for orders placed in the next few days. They close from Dec 29th to Jan 8th for holidays. Right now is their busiest time of the year.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 07:15 am
I’ll get an amp module lead time from Icepower tomorrow. But I’m pretty sure they will deliver much sooner than the cases. I’m ordering 60 amp modules this time so I have enough for some of Lot 5 as well. Then it will only be cases that cause the wait. All other supplies I’ll have in stock, or readily available quickly.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 27 Nov 2017, 07:23 am
The edges rounded out quite nicely after you left. Big class A monos and the matching pre amp were probably a little rusty after more than a year in the closet. They did open up very nicely but if I were to project based on our listening to the new Ice Powers at Dons, I'm expecting there's going to be some celebration of clarity and detail when the Ice 1200's are inserted. The question will be synergy for sure.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 07:32 am
The edges rounded out quite nicely after you left. Big class A monos and the matching pre amp were probably a little rusty after more than a year in the closet. They did open very nicely but if I were to project based on our listening to the new Ice Powers at Dons, I'm expecting there's going to be some celebration of clarity and detail when the Ice 1200's are inserted. The question will be synergy for sure.


That’s good. I don’t think synergy will be an issue. I have the same viewpoint that Charles Hansen has regarding synergy. When everything is done right you’ll have synergy. When you’re trying to make up for the shortcomings of one piece of gear with another is when things get difficult, and system component matching is critical. Start with a great DAC you like and build your system down from there. If your dac is outstanding, there’s nothing to worry about as long as all gear following it is transparent. Because the gear will accurately reproduce the sound your DAC provides to your speakers.

This is why I believe so much in building all in 1 integrated units. Because I can insure the end result will be outstanding under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 27 Nov 2017, 08:35 am
Your thought, logic and insight on these matters are certainly light years ahead of mine and I do enjoy swishing your ideas around in my head regardless if I will ever fully grasp them :) Rock hard and ride free my friend!

I am pretty damn close on having the components fro the integrated and I do think it would be a great piece.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: horchai on 27 Nov 2017, 10:55 am
Hi Mike im a supporter in Lot 4 for the 2 channel amp. What would you suggest for a solid state preamp to go with 1200as? Thks.  :D
Title: AKSA's Lender Preamp with 40Vpp Output
Post by: maty on 27 Nov 2017, 11:35 am
I am not Mike but my idea was a preamp with second harmonic preminence, very low third harmonic and nothing else. With clean DAC (maybe the RME ADI-2 Pro - I love RME AD hard used to make vinyl rips). The sound profile would be given by the preamp.

Look at the graphs of this new DIY preamp by xrk971 + AKSA.

AKSA's Lender Preamp with 40Vpp Output

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output.html

Well it is not balanced but... the measures are so beautiful aka very clean.

Oh, you need to be logged to see the pictures. Maybe I can upload one:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/AKSA-Lender-Preamp-SMT-Preamp-20vpp-7kohm-47R-degen-yes-matched-6k8carbon-FB.png
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 02:06 pm
Hi Mike im a supporter in Lot 4 for the 2 channel amp. What would you suggest for a solid state preamp to go with 1200as? Thks.  :D

Well that’s a tough question. It all depends on your budget and taste. I’m eventually going to be releasing a DAC/Pre in a matching case to this amp. My goal is to match or surpass the sound of the $90000 MSB Select 2 for $5000. That will be the ultimate companion to this amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: THROWBACK on 27 Nov 2017, 02:25 pm
Mike,
I, for one, really appreciate your near-constant stream of communications. It must take a chunk out of your day to keep us informed as well as you do, but I hope you will continue. Even "nothing to report" is a report.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 02:29 pm
No problem. Yes I will continue to keep the flow of information coming. Today is the day the first 66 amps were slated to ship. I just emailed Icepower about it and inquired on lead time for another batch of 60 modules.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 27 Nov 2017, 03:13 pm
Hi Mike im a supporter in Lot 4 for the 2 channel amp. What would you suggest for a solid state preamp to go with 1200as? Thks.  :D

If you have a lower budget I would recommend the Wyred 4 Sound STP SE very good solid state pre with all the mods they offer it is supposed
to have an awesome sound. Passive up to a point. I owned the base version for a while, but I like tubes in my preamp so went another way. Also
balanced in/outs

https://wyred4sound.com/products/pre-amps/stp-se
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 27 Nov 2017, 03:24 pm
Quote
2nd stage filtering caps (4-22,000uf caps) are upgraded to the Wyred 4 Sound Low ESR "SUPER CAP" designed for power supplies

Tripple-ripple reduction circuit contains 164,560uF of capacitance

 8)

My DCB x5 combo has 10 x18,000uF from EPCOS with low ESR and high ripple capacity. And I can connect four components.

Quote
48 Vishay Z-Foil resistors located in the resistor ladder volume control

They are very good but only 48 steps  :?

Remember, Icepower 1200AS: 600 watts at 8 Ohms.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 04:03 pm
Heard from Icepower. The first 66 were delayed a bit due to 1 part being back ordered. But will ship next week. That's fine because cases won't ship till Dec 21st anyways. And I'll be able to get the next 60 amp modules before xmas. Which is fine as well because lot 4 cases can't ship till mid January.
Title: Why is Minerva Icepower 1200 AS a bargain?
Post by: maty on 27 Nov 2017, 04:19 pm
Why is Minerva Icepower 1200 AS a bargain?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/315311-fs-hypex-ncore-500-dual-mono-amp.html

Quote
I am selling my brand new class-D amp built on Hypex ncore 500 modules.
It's a dual mono design with seperate PSUs for each channel and another PSU for standby mode.
Some specs:

2 x Hypex SMPS1200A700
2 x Hypex Ncore NC500 amplifier
2 x Hypex NC500 converter board
1 x High quality low voltage PSU for standby control
4 x Audio Note binding posts
4 x Neotech UP-OCC 14AWG Solid Copper Speaker output wire
1 x High quality mains input socket with power ON/OFF button and fuse
2 x Neutrik gold plated XLR line input sockets

Quote
I am asking 1290€ incl. shipping within EU/UK.

Without a better input buffer with Sonic Imagery 994 or Sparkos SS3602.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 27 Nov 2017, 04:34 pm
Well that’s a tough question. It all depends on your budget and taste. I’m eventually going to be releasing a DAC/Pre in a matching case to this amp. My goal is to match or surpass the sound of the $90000 MSB Select 2 for $5000. That will be the ultimate companion to this amp.

Mike,

I was being such a good boy by not pestering you about the future DAC/preamps, but I couldn't resist a quick question now that you've mentioned the price goal.  :icon_twisted:

Any guesses on how long before units will be ready for sale? [I know. It's a horrible question, but any hint at timing would be nice for me.]

Regards,

Michael (returning to lurking)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 04:42 pm
Mike,

I was being such a good boy by not pestering you about the future DAC/preamps, but I couldn't resist a quick question now that you've mentioned the price goal.  :icon_twisted:

Any guesses on how long before units will be ready for sale? [I know. It's a horrible question, but any hint at timing would be nice for me.]

Regards,

Michael (returning to lurking)

Well It's a few months away yet. I'm just finishing up my 1st Puremusic DAC/pre system for Palerider now. It will my reference for this unit. However it's very expensive mainly due to the balanced Slagleformer preamp section, and exotic custom casework. $12500. Next goal is to surpass it with my fiber optic Ravenna input, and 64 bit floating point "DSD wide" volume control. So goal is using a Takachi case to lower cost, and offering them for $5000 a piece with a 20 lot group buy. So it will actually be a streamer/DAC/Pre. But no analog inputs. Fiber optic Ethernet only.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 27 Nov 2017, 08:35 pm
I decided to let lot 4-2 channel and lot 1-6 channel go till Wednesday. Still 4-2 channel amps left and 2-6 channel. I locked in the order of 60 amp modules already for delivery before xmas.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 27 Nov 2017, 09:50 pm
Well It's a few months away yet. I'm just finishing up my 1st Puremusic DAC/pre system for Palerider now. It will my reference for this unit. However it's very expensive mainly due to the balanced Slagleformer preamp section, and exotic custom casework. $12500. Next goal is to surpass it with my fiber optic Ravenna input, and 64 bit floating point "DSD wide" volume control. So goal is using a Takachi case to lower cost, and offering them for $5000 a piece with a 20 lot group buy. So it will actually be a streamer/DAC/Pre. But no analog inputs. Fiber optic Ethernet only.

Sounds like a great product that will be an interesting thread.  Is "fiber optic ethernet only" one input or two?

Many more ideas and questions, but I'll save them for your official thread.

DSD wide has me intrigued as well...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 27 Nov 2017, 10:00 pm
... However it's very expensive mainly due to the balanced Slagleformer preamp section, and exotic custom casework.

Slagle Autoformer Volume Control Modules June 2011

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0611/slagle_autoformer_volume_control_modules.htm

Quote
To set the stage for the first listening impressions, the petite modules were directly driving the Lamm Audio M1.2 Reference monoblocks; as simple as it gets. What a surprise! There was magic in the air! Absolutely spectacular textural sweetness and purity – as if layers of electronic haze were being washed away. By contrast, resistive volume controls were made to sound grainy. Image outlines were full-bodied as if on steroids and soundstage depth perspective was well fleshed out. Dynamic nuances that previously lay dormant in the fabric of the music were resurrected with conviction. In general, the ebb and flow of musical lines appeared to be dramatically enhanced. What a first impression!

http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html

Sweetness... Maybe the transformers cause a second harmonic preminence, maybe. Something like carbon resistence in this new DIY preamp.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output-11.html#post5246606

Well, the problem was the cheap chinese thick film resitor that caused the nasty third harmonic preminence.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output-post5251122.html
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Oscillate on 28 Nov 2017, 01:59 am
...now I remember what I wanted to ask,
How many EIC power cord inlet sockets will the 6 channel Icepower 1200AS have?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 28 Nov 2017, 02:22 am
Mike. Thanks for stopping thru to help with my network troubleshooting today....... umm, I mean doing my troubleshooting. Hope the family dinner is tasty!

  I'm sure it had nothing to do with a network issues     :lol:  !!

jay
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 02:47 am
...now I remember what I wanted to ask,
How many EIC power cord inlet sockets will the 6 channel Icepower 1200AS have?

It will have 1 IEC inlet. Then it will split internally with a distribution block so each amp has equal power cable lengths going to them.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 02:48 am
  I'm sure it had nothing to do with a network issues     :lol:  !!

jay

No more like I gave him a bad SD card :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: JDUBS on 28 Nov 2017, 03:47 am
It will have 1 IEC inlet. Then it will split internally with a distribution block so each amp has equal power cable lengths going to them.

One 15-amp iec has enough current handling capacity?

-Jim
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 03:55 am
One 15-amp iec has enough current handling capacity?

-Jim

I'm using this C20 inlet:

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/358/typ_EC11-44679.pdf

If you require more current than that, you better upgrade your breakers, along with house wiring and AC receptacles. If any 6 channel user demands more than 20 amps to power their system to their maximum listening levels,  I'd suggest buying 3 of the 2 channel amps, and running a dedicated breaker to each amp.

Also keep in mind that these amps combined with the supplies are 80% efficient. So if you're tripping breakers with the 6 channel amp, I wouldn't want to be your ear drums :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2bigears on 28 Nov 2017, 05:30 am
 :D can you send a number of your pp refund.  Nothing yet here and it's been a few weeks. 
           Come on man ,,,,, that faceplate template you sent doesn't show pp on it ?   :D
        I sent my email ,,,, just send a e-transfer for goodness sakes man,,,, :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 05:34 am
Please scroll back in the thread and read. This is getting to the point of trolling. You know damn well what the PP transaction number is. It’s obvious you only left the deposit so you can do what you’re doing now. Never any intention of buying an amp. And from what I hear you have a history of similar tactics with others.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 28 Nov 2017, 06:01 am
:D can you send a number of your pp refund.  Nothing yet here and it's been a few weeks. 
           Come on man ,,,,, that faceplate template you sent doesn't show pp on it ?   :D
        I sent my email ,,,, just send a e-transfer for goodness sakes man,,,, :D

Um. Look. It hasn't been a few weeks.

Have   you   called  your  credit   card   company  to   ask   about   this   issue  ?   ?   ?  Call  your   credit   card    company.... :duh:

Even I can read between your lines here.   :nono:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 06:03 am
Um. Look. It hasn't been a few weeks.

Have   you   called  your  credit   card   company  to   ask   about   this   issue  ?   ?   ?  Call  your   credit   card    company.... :duh:

Even I can read between your lines here.   :nono:

Or PayPal with the transaction ID I clearly posted 2 pages back. He knows my email yet hasn’t even sent me 1 private email to discuss this. All public. His intentions of leaving the deposit are very clear.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 28 Nov 2017, 06:06 am
You can tell from 2bigears annoying smiley emojis :D that this is a joke to him. If his goal is to cast doubt about your honesty, Mike, it is in fact having the opposite effect.
 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 06:08 am
Well the way I see it, anyone who puts any weight in what he’s saying isn’t someone I want buying my products anyways.
Title: Balanced in and out
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 09:03 am
More about the preamp with H2 preminence at DIY thread:

bvtrinh

Quote
If I needed the preamplifier to have balanced in and out, would I need two of each?

AKSA

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output-post5258324.html

Quote
Best option is to use balanced transformers, made by Sowter, Jensen, and Lundahl. They are expensive, but the best to use because they give galvanic isolation, guarantee to stop earth loop which make hum.

Always the noise must be a concern.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 28 Nov 2017, 03:02 pm
:D can you send a number of your pp refund.  Nothing yet here and it's been a few weeks. 
           Come on man ,,,,, that faceplate template you sent doesn't show pp on it ?   :D
        I sent my email ,,,, just send a e-transfer for goodness sakes man,,,, :D

I just wanna know what's with all the commas!?!?  :o
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 04:58 pm
We can get back to the amps now. This distraction should be over now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 28 Nov 2017, 05:28 pm
:D can you send a number of your pp refund.  Nothing yet here and it's been a few weeks. 
           Come on man ,,,,, that faceplate template you sent doesn't show pp on it ?   :D
        I sent my email ,,,, just send a e-transfer for goodness sakes man,,,, :D

Just stop. It's getting ridiculous.  :roll:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 28 Nov 2017, 07:49 pm
OK--back to the topic at hand. Mike I'm curious as to whether you think adding a set of Stillpoint mini feet to the case would be a worthwhile venture with these amp modules.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 07:56 pm
OK--back to the topic at hand. Mike I'm curious as to whether you think adding a set of Stillpoint mini feet to the case would be a worthwhile venture with these amp modules.

Well you can try and share results. I’ve never tried stillpoints before.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 08:03 pm
Without tubes and big transformers the Mivera amp will not need stillpoints I think. There are big? capacitors, which I suppose will be very well attached to the pcb.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 28 Nov 2017, 08:04 pm
OK--back to the topic at hand. Mike I'm curious as to whether you think adding a set of Stillpoint mini feet to the case would be a worthwhile venture with these amp modules.

Good point.
My experience with Stillpoint footers (I have a couple of Ultra SS) is that they work well provided the component have enough weight. When I had the Merrill Veritas for audition, which comes with Ultra mini, the Ultra SS didn't quiet work well but the minis did. Usually with lighter components the Stillpoints are not my first choice. I would also like to hear what folks think for this amp as well. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 08:16 pm
I was just at the machine shop who’s doing my first Puremusic case yesterday. Wait till you guys see the precision work these guys do. Absolutely stunning. Rolls Royce jet engine parts quality.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 28 Nov 2017, 09:20 pm
Good point.
My experience with Stillpoint footers (I have a couple of Ultra SS) is that they work well provided the component have enough weight. When I had the Merrill Veritas for audition, which comes with Ultra mini, the Ultra SS didn't quiet work well but the minis did. Usually with lighter components the Stillpoints are not my first choice. I would also like to hear what folks think for this amp as well.

I'd think that Herbie's Tenderfoot feet (the soft version) would be a good choice for experimenting with isolation in this scenario.  Or... a Shamwow.   :green:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: JackD on 28 Nov 2017, 11:34 pm
Agree on the Tenderfeet or for more Rollerblock Jr.'s.  I tried and used both on the Nord with similar case and weight.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 28 Nov 2017, 11:39 pm
Down to 1- 6 channel left in Lot 1 for 6 channel amps. Lot 2 will likely be early to mid February delivery.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 03:30 am
Regarding the 6 channel amp, the IEC inlet will be the 20A IEC-C19 type. I can include either a cable with the C19 IEC end and standard NEMA 5-15 plug end like this:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172028)

But then your limited to 15 amps before the breaker trips. For most they will never drive the amps that hard. However if you have 20 amp breakers installed, and NEMA 6-20 type power receptacles in your listening room I can include a NEMA 6-20/C19 cable like this:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172029)

Then you’ll need a receptacle like this:



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172031)


All of the high end Furutech receptacles are both NEMA 5-15 and 6-20 compatible. I may add them to my webshop as well.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172032)



http://www.furutech.com/products/power-inlets-receptacles/

With the 6-20 setup you’ll be able to get that extra 5 amps out of your wall before the breaker trips.

For the ultimate pipeline to the 6 channel amp one would use a Furutech receptacle, Then have Dave C at Zenwave build them a S55N based cable with Furutech 6/20/C19 connectors:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172033)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172034)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172035)







 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 29 Nov 2017, 05:16 am
I’m pretty off the norm with my power feed. I run cryo 10awg circuits to a highly modded BPT isolation transformer through both Furutech and Oyaide R1 outlets. Those in turn through the BPT use Fururech, Oyaide and Synergistic Research receptacles. Then there are the power cords..... and more tweaks still. Most of my cords are 5/15 standard but my circuits are 20 amp. I have 15amp Furutech gold I can use on the 6 channel I ordered.  I could use a C19 but what’s the point when I have a spare 5-15?

I’m rambling I know
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 05:41 am

Keep in mind the amp end will have a C19 inlet. So your power cord will need a C19 IEC end.


If you don’t need to extract the last bit of power out of the 6 channel, 15 amp gear is fine. However the larger gauge of 20 amp dedicated audio circuits should result in better performance. I found this great guide from  Vince at MSB regarding audioroom wiring from the breaker.

http://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/how-to-wire-your-house-for-good-power/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 29 Nov 2017, 07:59 am
In Europe, Schnneider residual current Super immune circuit breaker is a very good idea if you have a dedicated line to audio equipment => additional protection in front the harmonics at mains in polluted environments and networks.

Why?

The electricity network is getting dirtier every day. The widespread use of cheap SMPS, cheap electrical motors, air conditioners (they add DC at mains too)....  usually made in East Asia (China). And bad electrical installations in elevators, and...

(https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=PB104472&p_File_Ext=.PNG&p_File_Type=rendition_200_png&default_image=DefaultProductImage.png)

https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/search/inmmunized

https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/search/Super+immune
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: tane0019 on 29 Nov 2017, 11:11 am
Sorry if I had missed the answers/info.

Lot4 2 channels amp - what is the casing color ?  Black or White ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 29 Nov 2017, 01:10 pm
he said he'll contact owners later for choice of silver/black
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 29 Nov 2017, 01:11 pm
Silver case stock, Black case $40 additional.

Check website & select "out of stock" amp/ case for reference:  https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 04:08 pm
To leave a deposit you don’t need to choose the color. You choose the color when I open the webshop for orders.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 08:34 pm
Hi guys,

Okay I’m going to close deposits for Lot 4-2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel. Then I’m going to open up both silver and black orders for 2 and 6 channel amps. For everyone who left deposits I’ll refund the deposit after you place your order. For those who haven’t added connectors/cables yet, please add to cart with your orders. I’ll be sending emails out to all who left deposits shortly as well.

The amp modules have been ordered for delivery before Xmas and cases will ship mid January.

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 29 Nov 2017, 09:16 pm
Any idea on when lot 2 kit orders will ship?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 09:29 pm
Any idea on when lot 2 kit orders will ship?

It will be right around Xmas when I ship lot 1-2-3 orders. Whenever I get the cases which are supposed to arrive right at xmas.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 29 Nov 2017, 09:30 pm
It will be right around Xmas when I ship lot 1-2-3 orders. Whenever I get the cases which are supposed to arrive right at xmas.
:D :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 29 Nov 2017, 09:38 pm
Where will they be shipping from?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 09:42 pm
Where will they be shipping from?


From B.C Canada. 1-4 days shipping to anywhere in the U.S. Usually under 7 business days for the rest of the world. I've had shipments make it to Australia in 4 days and Malaysia in 3.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 09:52 pm
There's still 1-6 channel amp and 3-2 channel amps left. If anyone who hasn't left a deposit wants one, they still have a chance to order now to get in on lot 4-2 channel and lot 1-6 channel.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 29 Nov 2017, 11:26 pm
Will there be any extra duties or brokerage fees we'll have to pay if shipped to the U.S.?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 29 Nov 2017, 11:37 pm
Will there be any extra duties or brokerage fees we'll have to pay if shipped to the U.S.?

No there’s no duty for products made in Canada for the US. Unless NAFTA gets abolished. I’ve never had any clients mention brokerage fees on the dozens of other products I’ve shipped to the U.S. This is why I use DHL.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 12:15 am
Speaking of brokerage fees I just got hammered $73 for a spool of the Mogami speaker cable from UPS coming from the U.S. This is why I don't use UPS!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 01:36 am
Hi Guys,

Just so you're aware, if you use a VPN service, turn it off while making your payment with a credit card and no verified Paypal account. Paypal blocks payments made through VPN's. Then they reg flag the payment if you try it again. Following this it needs to go through an approval process that can take up to 3 business days to release.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 06:04 am
About half who placed deposits have placed their orders already. Still a few 2 channel amps left and 1- 6 channel amp left that haven't been reserved with deposits. If anyone who placed deposits doesn't settle their orders by 1 PM pacific time tomorrow, it will be first come first serve for the remaining lot 4-2 channel amps and lot 1-6 channel amps. Because I'm ordering all cases regardless. If folks who left deposits don't make it in time, their deposits will be bumped to the next lots that won't ship till some time in February.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 30 Nov 2017, 06:42 am
Hi guys. Great news. Just got off the phone with Icepower. There’s going to be no price increase at this time. And I’m clear to open Lot 4 deposits. However keep in mind with the holiday season ahead these amps won’t deliver until some time in early January. Once the Lot 4 deposits fill, I’ll get a new lead time quote from all of the suppliers.

Was there a new lead time for all supplies and/or amp delivery for lot 4/lot 1 6-channel?  I must have missed it in this insanely long thread  :o

When should shipping begin from your shop for lot 1 6-channel?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 06:52 am
Was there a new lead time for all supplies and/or amp delivery for lot 4/lot 1 6-channel?  I must have missed it in this insanely long thread  :o

When should shipping begin from your shop for lot 1 6-channel?

My estimated case lead time is mid January. All other supplies will come earlier. Ordering the cases later won't make them come faster so I'm getting the order in tomorrow. Case lead time is never usually this long. But not only is it their busiest season, they shut down for a week during the holidays. And a company who does this much volume, gets way backed up when they're down for a week. There's no other case manufacturer on this planet that can offer the case quality for the money. So no better options.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 08:36 am
I've been thinking after all lot 4-2 channel amps and lot 1-6 channel amps are fully ordered up, I may wait till the new year to open the next 1200AS lots. I really have a lot of OEM work to work on, and I know once people hear these amps and start sharing impressions the demand is going to explode. Plus the holiday season will be over so lead times should shorten. However it's likely that the price will increase. Icepower told me this was introductory pricing for these modules, and I'm not sure what they will raise my costs to. So we will see. It will also be interesting to see if others come out with 1200AS amps in the mean time and what they will be priced at, along with the quality level of internal cable/connectors, and warranty/trade up policy.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: horchai on 30 Nov 2017, 10:19 am
Hi Mike when we make an order and pay up what happens to the earlier deposit paid? Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 10:21 am
I’ll refund it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 30 Nov 2017, 12:50 pm
No there’s no duty for products made in Canada for the US. Unless NAFTA gets abolished. I’ve never had any clients mention brokerage fees on the dozens of other products I’ve shipped to the U.S. This is why I use DHL.

It is a lot more complex than that.  It has to do with where all the components are  made, not where it was necessarily assembled or shipped from. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 30 Nov 2017, 05:38 pm
I’ll refund it.

Are the charges for basic cable and connections also refunded?  I think they were included in the total amp price, but your web store wasn't working with having a $0 price.  Thanks

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 06:45 pm
They were before Lot 4. Now I’m soaking everyone with a whole dollar for each option. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 30 Nov 2017, 07:43 pm
Okay I think I got it finally. Who ever orders the $1 items I'll refund the $1 for each item. Because I told you they were included. But starting at lot 4 I'm just gonna charge the dollar.

Yes, that's right you did address this. Thanks.  Soak away!

I'm all in on lot 1, 6-channel, by the way  :D

Can't wait until you have your own circle.  Lots to discuss!

Just thought I'd mention: I don't need nearly this much power, but what sold me on the amp was your assessment of the sound quality.  I've had so many multi-channel amps of all types over the years so I'm really looking forward to hearing this amp.

The extra power will be great for dynamics during some movies and multi-channel audio (e.g. some 2L recordings I have - love those).
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 07:54 pm
Yes and after that I surprised everyone by upgrading the $1 binding post option to pure copper CMC binding posts that retail for $60-80 a set. That’s 3 sets in your 6 channel amp:)

Yes most 6 channel users will only likely use 1/20th of the power available, especially with active speakers. But the sound is amazing at all volume levels. One of the things Don mentioned was the low level listening quality. When you have that much drive, and a SNR of 129dB it makes for incredible low level late night listening as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 08:19 pm
45 minutes left and still a few who left deposits haven’t ordered. So for everyone who wants an amp as long as my webshop doesn’t say “out of stock” under your amp of choice, that means you still have a chance to get in on this Lot. The next lot for both 2 and 6 channel amps won’t be opening till the new year. And likely at a higher price point.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 30 Nov 2017, 08:59 pm
Yes most 6 channel users will only likely use 1/20th of the power available, especially with active speakers. But the sound is amazing at all volume levels. One of the things Don mentioned was the low level listening quality. When you have that much drive, and a SNR of 129dB it makes for incredible low level late night listening as well.

Somewhere in the back of my demented mind, I'm thinking of tri-amping my big Ushers  :scratch: :icon_twisted:

Can one really have too much power  :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 30 Nov 2017, 09:04 pm
Somewhere in the back of my demented mind, I'm thinking of tri-amping my big Ushers  :scratch: :icon_twisted:

Can one really have too much power  :wink:

Great plan!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 1 Dec 2017, 01:59 am
I plan on dragging the amp over to a couple more listening rooms over the weekend. I’ll share pictures and impressions.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 1 Dec 2017, 02:08 am
I also decided to order 10 6 channel amp cases instead of 8. Since I’ll have the amp modules anyways might as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 1 Dec 2017, 03:35 pm
Somewhere in the back of my demented mind, I'm thinking of tri-amping my big Ushers  :scratch: :icon_twisted:

Can one really have too much power  :wink:

Demented, be careful. With great power comes great responsibility.   :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 1 Dec 2017, 09:21 pm
Mivera Audio is now accepting Bitcoin and ApplePay as optional forms of payment.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Speedskater on 1 Dec 2017, 09:56 pm
In Europe, Schnneider residual current Super immune circuit breaker is a very good idea if you have a dedicated line to audio equipment => additional protection in front the harmonics at mains in polluted environments and networks.
....................................... .....
Seems to be a typo there or a non-sequitur.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 1 Dec 2017, 10:23 pm
...I found this great guide from  Vince at MSB regarding audioroom wiring from the breaker.

http://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/how-to-wire-your-house-for-good-power/

[ Circuit Breaker Replacement

I recommend new breakers if they are older then one year or so. (they are cheap). If you get the original equipment circuit breakers (like Square D, Siemens, etc.), from an electrical supply house (not Home Depot or Lowe’s), you will likely get silver-tungsten contacts inside the breaker. Cheap replacement breakers are likely to have copper contacts which have higher resistance and will oxidize over time raising the resistance further. Research with your local electrical supply and ask them to look up the breaker contact material to confirm it is silver or silver tungsten. ]

If you have to change the breaker, put a good one like Schneider (or other) super immune, of professional quality contrasted.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 2 Dec 2017, 01:15 am
Demented, be careful. With great power comes great responsibility.   :wink:

Well of course I would wear safety glasses lest a voice coil pokes my eye out  :cyclops:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 2 Dec 2017, 01:20 am
[ Circuit Breaker Replacement

I recommend new breakers if they are older then one year or so. (they are cheap). If you get the original equipment circuit breakers (like Square D, Siemens, etc.), from an electrical supply house (not Home Depot or Lowe’s), you will likely get silver-tungsten contacts inside the breaker. Cheap replacement breakers are likely to have copper contacts which have higher resistance and will oxidize over time raising the resistance further. Research with your local electrical supply and ask them to look up the breaker contact material to confirm it is silver or silver tungsten. ]

If you have to change the breaker, put a good one like Schneider (or other) super immune, of professional quality contrasted.

I recently (last year) installed solar and a a new service panel. The electrician was entertained by my installation of dedicated circuits but I had no knowledge of noise immune circuit breakers, and I looked! Not sure if I have any room for the fore mentioned breaker, but I'll revisit the idea.

Curious though, does the AS1200 amplifier have or need fuse protection?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 2 Dec 2017, 02:15 am
You would install a sub panel and put the dedicated circuits in it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 2 Dec 2017, 02:50 am
hooray I sold one of my extra amps on usaudiomart.  therefore I have upgraded to neotech occ speaker post hookup wire :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mhndsv on 2 Dec 2017, 09:10 am
Hi All. New member here. I just ordered the 6 channel version of the amp. Just wanted to give a heads up on how awesome Mike was to deal with. I am typing on my smartphone keyboard (which I hate doing)...will follow up with a later post detailing the reasons for my purchase.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 2 Dec 2017, 10:28 am
I recently (last year) installed solar and a a new service panel. The electrician was entertained by my installation of dedicated circuits but I had no knowledge of noise immune circuit breakers, and I looked! Not sure if I have any room for the fore mentioned breaker, but I'll revisit the idea.

Curious though, does the AS1200 amplifier have or need fuse protection?

There’s a fuse in the amp input, and I’m putting another fuse on the rear panel under the IEC inlet. To bypass the rear fuse one would move the power connector directly to the IEC inlet. But if they did please don’t let me know about it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 2 Dec 2017, 10:30 am
Another listening session today with Audionote speakers.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172171)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172172)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172173)


Great sounding speakers. Sure wasn’t missing tubes with my DAC direct to the amp :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 2 Dec 2017, 03:42 pm
Those are some great speakers. Listened to them many times but never with a class D amp. Normally I've seen Audionote speakers paired with, well, Audionote electronics, and boy do they sing. Can you tell us the difference in sound with the 1200AS which I know is a very difficult request? As I recall, the AN's are very efficient.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 2 Dec 2017, 03:46 pm
Those are some great speakers. Listened to them many times but never with a class D amp. Normally I've seen Audionote speakers paired with, well, Audionote electronics, and boy do they sing. Can you tell us the difference in sound with the 1200AS which I know is a very difficult request? As I recall, the AN's are very efficient.

I'll let Paul comment on that as he just sold his Audionote integrated amp. He bought 2 1200AS amps and is going to be bi-amping these speakers with them. These are the ones with the silver voice coil.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 2 Dec 2017, 03:47 pm
My current amps right channel has developed a hum or buzz. The hum is also notable inside the amp. Clear music still plays through it but WTF. Maybe it's pissed that I ordered another amp?  :nono:



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 2 Dec 2017, 03:50 pm
My current amps right channel has developed a hum or buzz. The hum is also notable inside the amp. Clear music still plays through it but WTF. Maybe it's pissed that I ordered another amp?  :nono:

Ha ha definitely no buzz or hum from the 1200AS. We actually had it connected to my DAC direct using the Roon volume control. No attenuation between the DAC and amps. With his 98dB efficient speakers you could put your ear on the speaker and sounds like it's off when music isn't playing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 2 Dec 2017, 04:17 pm
My current amps right channel has developed a hum or buzz. The hum is also notable inside the amp. Clear music still plays through it but WTF. Maybe it's pissed that I ordered another amp?  :nono:

Lol... Prolly a bad cap... might be time to re-cap the amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 2 Dec 2017, 08:47 pm
Lol... Prolly a bad cap... might be time to re-cap the amp.

Bad cap? Well, I hope not  :cry: Here's a pic of the inside of my amp  :o

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172224)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 2 Dec 2017, 11:47 pm
Hi All. New member here. I just ordered the 6 channel version of the amp. Just wanted to give a heads up on how awesome Mike was to deal with. I am typing on my smartphone keyboard (which I hate doing)...will follow up with a later post detailing the reasons for my purchase.

Thanks for the order! I can’t wait to get these out to you guys! Finally we will have impressions of the 6 channel used in an active speaker setup!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 2 Dec 2017, 11:48 pm
Bad cap? Well, I hope not  :cry: Here's a pic of the inside of my amp  :o

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172224)

Wow that may make for time consuming diagnosis!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 3 Dec 2017, 01:56 am
Well, it's a German amp that has kicked a lot of great amps to the curb. Me thinks it's not a cap. It still plays great music but in silence we hear it.

I'm not a fan of class D amps. I want to be because they are energy efficient, light, and have potential to be very good. As I mentioned, I've owned a few of them and, well, I owned them. Not bad but I look for the best within my budget for greatness. BMC like many companies that have "greatness" suffer in this country because no one seems to know much about them. Lindemann is a current classic example of under the radar. The Koreans too, the Allnic, I had the 5000, what a great pre, but I happened across it.

Nonetheless, I bought the 6 channel AS1200 partly because you are who you are, passionate, enthusiastic, knowledgeable and seem to have a keen sense of sensibility. I've been in this hobby for more than 50 years and look forward to this new generation of class D. It will be up against stiff competition, hum or no hum   :)

And Joule Electra VZN100's are still the best amplifiers on the planet  :lol: But you would need a cold climate to use them in your room. Think of them as a fireplace  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 03:01 am
Well, it's a German amp that has kicked a lot of great amps to the curb. Me thinks it's not a cap. It still plays great music but in silence we hear it.

I'm not a fan of class D amps. I want to be because they are energy efficient, light, and have potential to be very good. As I mentioned, I've owned a few of them and, well, I owned them. Not bad but I look for the best within my budget for greatness. BMC like many companies that have "greatness" suffer in this country because no one seems to know much about them. Lindemann is a current classic example of under the radar. The Koreans too, the Allnic, I had the 5000, what a great pre, but I happened across it.

Nonetheless, I bought the 6 channel AS1200 partly because you are who you are, passionate, enthusiastic, knowledgeable and seem to have a keen sense of sensibility. I've been in this hobby for more than 50 years and look forward to this new generation of class D. It will be up against stiff competition, hum or no hum   :)

And Joule Electra VZN100's are still the best amplifiers on the planet  :lol: But you would need a cold climate to use them in your room. Think of them as a fireplace  :lol:

You mean you're not a fan of older class D amps. :). I think you'll be surprised with this one. There was a time when class A and A/B amps were no good as well. This 1200AS has a level of liquidity to the sound I haven't experienced yet with class D. And it pulls it off without any loss of resolution, dynamics etc.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 3 Dec 2017, 03:13 am
Bad cap? Well, I hope not  :cry: Here's a pic of the inside of my amp  :o

You can check them for buldges or leakage, but yeah, not looking like much fun to re-cap. Seems about right for a German amp, kinda like their cars... they may perform well but maintenance isn't cheap!  :lol:

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 07:38 am
Here's the 6 channel top/bottom/rear panels:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172235)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172236)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172237)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 3 Dec 2017, 01:50 pm
that iec inlet and fuse holder under it really mess with the symmetry but I have no suggestion for improvement :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 3 Dec 2017, 02:27 pm
I've been reading this thread since the beginning, and it has been interesting seeing it progress.

Considering the goals of this project, would your customers (or you as a company?) see advantage in just making all of the amps, regardless of configuration, from the same top and bottom panel configurations?  It might create a simple/low parts overhead post-sales upgrade/pre-sales build path for everything from 2-channel to 4-channel, to dual monoblock, to 6-channel amps, all without messing up the cosmetics of any of the various configurations.

I'm also thinking that if fully integrated preamp and DAC modules could be built with the right board layouts and similar to the ICE modules completely integrated on-board power supplies, some pretty interesting bang-fort-the-buck integrated systems could be built on this "platform" as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 02:59 pm
that iec inlet and fuse holder under it really mess with the symmetry but I have no suggestion for improvement :P

Well there’s only so much real estate on the rear panel. There’s no other way to make it fit. Yes would be nice if the IEC inlet wasn’t there, but unfortunately the amp can’t run on air. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 03:07 pm
I've been reading this thread since the beginning, and it has been interesting seeing it progress.

Considering the goals of this project, would your customers (or you as a company?) see advantage in just making all of the amps, regardless of configuration, from the same top and bottom panel configurations?  It might create a simple/low parts overhead post-sales upgrade/pre-sales build path for everything from 2-channel to 4-channel, to dual monoblock, to 6-channel amps, all without messing up the cosmetics of any of the various configurations.

I'm also thinking that if fully integrated preamp and DAC modules could be built with the right board layouts and similar to the ICE modules completely integrated on-board power supplies, some pretty interesting bang-fort-the-buck integrated systems could be built on this "platform" as well.



No it wouldn’t make sense as the 6 channel case is bigger. And all the extra machining costs a lot of extra money. Then there would be a bunch of extra holes on the bottom panel with nothing in them. All back panels must be identical in each lot as well. If someone wants to upgrade from 2 to 4 channels they can buy 2 of the 2 channel amps. If someone wants to upgrade from 2 to 6 channels they can either buy 3-2 channel amps, or I’ll take a 2 channel amp on a trade up to a 6.

I plan on releasing an integrated streamer/DAC/Pre in a matching case eventually. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 3 Dec 2017, 03:41 pm
No it wouldn’t make sense as the 6 channel case is bigger...

My initial thought on the concept was going from an illustration earlier in the thread showing a single amp board mounted in the center of what looked like (to me anyway) the same case size/shape as the 6-channel layout that was posted above.  I guess I just didn't wrap my head correctly around the finished size of the single board, 2-channel amps based on the numerical measurements provided of the casework.  Did I miss it, or was there an illustration/3D render/photo of a completed/prototype amp posted somewhere in thread?  Sorry if I missed it trying to dig back in this (very) long thread.

As to the rest, thank you for your reply, and I'll try to withdraw from discussing things regarding business/manufacturing strategy any further as that sort of talk has at least once before veered this (again already very) long thread off the main topic of the amps themselves.

Thanks again for your time!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 03:45 pm
That picture earlier was in the same case size as the 6 channel. I happen to have 1 here and that’s why. The 6 channel case is 430mm Wide , and the 2 channel case is 330mm Wide. The 6 channel case is the biggest footprint Takachi makes at 430x330mm. You can get taller, but not bigger LxW.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 3 Dec 2017, 04:26 pm
Thanks for the clarification.  I must have missed or forgotten the text explaining the difference in width, which is why I followed the thinking I did, and why I maybe had in my head that you had one of the 330mm cases on hand to mock up.

I know I said I would try to steer out of the business-ey stuff, but I remember you mentioning a price increase on the modules coming up after the intro pricing/new year.  I looked on the case OEM website, and it looks clear to me that the 2-channel amp could fit into the 230mm wide case (the smallest they make).  Since you are offering trade-ups for customers if they want to to up in number of channels (which would require a ship back and forth for a complete amp anyway), maybe going forward with 100% complete amps (no DIY kits), if the 230mm case is cheaper than the 330mm case, and you don't have any other plans for products that would let you bulk order more of the 330mm cases at any given time, maybe switching to the narrower case can offset some of the price increase of the modules to keep you at around $1000 for the basic amp if that is where you want to be/stay?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 04:34 pm
Well a lot of people like a wider case size because it matches their other gear better. It also makes for better cooling of the module as there’s more air volume and heatsink area. It also will match the streamer/DAC/Pre case I’m making later. The cost isn’t much different between the 2.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 06:48 pm
The only complaint I received regarding my previous lineup of gear that used the 280mm wide cases was it wasn’t wide enough.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172259)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rwolters on 3 Dec 2017, 10:33 pm
I have a question regarding the amps ability to handle electrostatic speaker loads. The data sheet back on the first page of this thread states the minimum load for the amp would be 2.7 ohms. I believe a speaker like the Martin Logan Montis drops down to 0.5 ohms at 20khz. Will this amp be able to handle a load like that?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: opnly bafld on 3 Dec 2017, 10:41 pm
It can handle dips down to 1 ohm easily. The 2.7 ohm minimum impedance is referring to nominal impedance. These fancy microprocessor controlled class D amps have current limiters. It's only when a load that presents more than 38 amps of draw from the power supply, that it will limit out. Good luck doing that with home audio speakers of any type. They don't share a damping factor spec, but it will be very high. I was able to drive my speakers to much higher volume levels with the Sheffield Drum and Track Disk without my woofers bottoming out, than I was able to with the NC-500's. The driver control is unreal.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 10:43 pm
I have a question regarding the amps ability to handle electrostatic speaker loads. The data sheet back on the first page of this thread states the minimum load for the amp would be 2.7 ohms. I believe a speaker like the Martin Logan Montis drops down to 0.5 ohms at 20khz. Will this amp be able to handle a load like that?

The 2.7 ohms is referring to the minimum nominal impedance. Not the minimum impedance period. It can easily handle dips down to any impedance as long as it doesn’t demand more than 38 amps of current from the power supply. Those speakers would be shredded before that would occur. These smart microprocessor controlled amps don’t have the limitations of old school class A and AB amps. Everything is monitored and adapts to the conditions.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rwolters on 3 Dec 2017, 10:46 pm
That sounds good. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 11:04 pm
No problem. This amp is the smartest amp the world has seen yet. Everything is automatic. Automatic standby, automatic turn on trigger, temperature monitor, current monitor and all sorts of cool features. It’s impossible to damage these amps even if you tried. Unless you smash them with a hammer or something.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 11:19 pm
If you want you can leave the amp on full time and never shut off with the rear toggle. After 13 minutes of no signal, it automatically goes into standby mode. In standby mode it only consumes 160mW of current. Likely less than a typical alarm clock. Here’s some of the timing specs of the automatic controls:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172287)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 3 Dec 2017, 11:23 pm
If you want you can leave the amp on full time and never shut off with the rear toggle. After 13 minutes of no signal, it automatically goes into standby mode. In standby mode it only consumes 160mW of current. Likely less than a typical alarm clock. Here’s some of the timing specs of the automatic controls:


That's nice... If it were my amp I'd bypass the switch and fuse. Not saying anyone should do anything like this though!  :nono:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 11:29 pm
Yeah you probably could. But everyone likes to run their different power cables. I’m sure some may use cables that cost 3-5x what the amp costs. Some will be thrilled with the included cable.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: DaveC113 on 3 Dec 2017, 11:39 pm
Yeah you probably could. But everyone likes to run their different power cables. I’m sure some may use cables that cost 3-5x what the amp costs. Some will be thrilled with the included cable.

I might keep the IEC, just not use the fuse or switch... but just remembered that might not be possible with the IEC/switch integrated. Minor detail anyways...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 3 Dec 2017, 11:50 pm
On the 6 channel the IEC inlet and the switch connects with little jumper cables with faston connectors. Unplugging the jumper and connecting direct to the IEC side will bypass the switch.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172288)


 The 2 channel has solid conductors connecting the 2 sections. If your using a switch the best place for it is as close to the inlet as possible. And connected directly.

These features are to meet electrical regulations. This is why you see switches and fuses on all amps of all quality levels and cost.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Doublej on 4 Dec 2017, 12:19 am
No problem. This amp is the smartest amp the world has seen yet. Everything is automatic. Automatic standby, automatic turn on trigger, temperature monitor, current monitor and all sorts of cool features. It’s impossible to damage these amps even if you tried. Unless you smash them with a hammer or something.

Send one to me and I'll find a way without physical destruction  :D ... the psychical world equivalent of a White Hat hacker! I always seem to find the deficiencies in products.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 12:29 am
Well I sure one could put their speaker cables in a mains outlet, or find creative ways such as that to deliberately destroy the modules. However the warranty diagnostics would be able to find out what happened.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 05:07 am
I'm working on ways of speeding up case lead time by getting some parts from other suppliers, and machining done locally. I'll let you guys know how I make out. It would be wonderful to get all these cases done sooner. It will cost me more of course, but it will be worth it to be able to get these lots out the door in a maximum of 2 weeks. When you rely on 1 supplier only, they have you by the balls. You must bow to them. I like to have options so I can call the shots on who does the work. This won't mean quality sacrifices either. It will actually mean even better quality. As it will allow me to do things my way.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 07:26 am
Okay I have the ball rolling on trying to reduce the lead time on the lot 4-2 channel cases and lot-1 6 channel. I'm going to try my best to get them done by Christmas along with lot-1-2-3. I would love to have all current outstanding orders shipped before the new year.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 07:48 am
Oh and if I happen to pull off getting the lot 4 cases done before Takachi ships the lot 1-2-3 order, i'll ship the lot 1-2-3 guys those cases first. What I'm actually trying is just getting raw parts from Takachi and not having them do the machining or anodizing. Then doing that locally. The local guys do superb work. Just waiting on an email if Takachi can ship these raw parts fast or not. If so I'm actually ordering enough for a couple more lots as well. Then I'll be good for cases till lot 7.   
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 4 Dec 2017, 07:49 am
Okay I have the ball rolling on trying to reduce the lead time on the lot 4-2 channel cases and lot-1 6 channel. I'm going to try my best to get them done by Christmas along with lot-1-2-3. I would love to have all current outstanding orders shipped before the new year.

Thank you Mike, I would love that too. I appreciate that you're always pushing to deliver a product that's of even higher quality and delivered sooner than what you've committed to. That's great customer service.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 07:52 am
Thank you Mike, I would love that too. I appreciate that you're always pushing to deliver a product that's of even higher quality and delivered sooner than what you've committed to. That's great customer service.

You're welcome! I know the lot 1-2-3 guys would love to have their amps playing while eating turkey this Xmas. And the lot 4 guys partying on New years with music amplified by these amps. I'm not promising anything, but I'm trying my best. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 4 Dec 2017, 01:12 pm
Mike,
   Were you able to demo the amp over the weekend in anyone else's system besides the Audio Note system? We'd love to hear some comments.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 4 Dec 2017, 02:15 pm
Thanks Mike for your efforts to get the amps to us sooner.

Earlier in this thread, there was a link to the old 2012 Hypex NC400 Tour thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0)).

I enjoyed revisiting that thread as that's the amp I'm using now. Back then, everyone was over the moon about the NC400. It's still the best amp I've heard, so I get I need to get out more :lol:. But my point is, this IceEdge will likely offer performance I didn't realize was possible. So I'm eager to hear it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 03:09 pm
Mike,
   Were you able to demo the amp over the weekend in anyone else's system besides the Audio Note system? We'd love to hear some comments.

No I left the amp at Paul’s. Still need to go to Jay’s. But waiting for my Neotech cable to come in as I need to make single ended input cables first to work with his Dood preamp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 4 Dec 2017, 03:31 pm
Oh and if I happen to pull off getting the lot 4 cases done before Takachi ships the lot 1-2-3 order, i'll ship the lot 1-2-3 guys those cases first. What I'm actually trying is just getting raw parts from Takachi and not having them do the machining or anodizing. Then doing that locally. The local guys do superb work. Just waiting on an email if Takachi can ship these raw parts fast or not. If so I'm actually ordering enough for a couple more lots as well. Then I'll be good for cases till lot 7.

So, you think I can possibly get my 6 channel on my birthday Mike? It would be a nice birthday present and very thoughtful of you  :dunno: Oh and it's just 5 days before Christmas.  :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 03:42 pm
Thanks Mike for your efforts to get the amps to us sooner.

Earlier in this thread, there was a link to the old 2012 Hypex NC400 Tour thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0)).

I enjoyed revisiting that thread as that's the amp I'm using now. Back then, everyone was over the moon about the NC400. It's still the best amp I've heard, so I get I need to get out more :lol:. But my point is, this IceEdge will likely offer performance I didn't realize was possible. So I'm eager to hear it.

I had NC-400’s for 4 years. When I first got my NC-400’s I thought something was wrong. I was coming from a warm and rich voiced amp that made everything sound pleasant. But then I realized the real problem wasn’t the amps, it was my DAC. The NC-400’s were so revealing that I was finally hearing the shortcomings of my DAC for the first time. So I upgraded my DAC and things got much better. However there still was a dryness to the sound. I just took this as being the truth in how it’s supposed to sound. Once I got the NC-500’s, eventually the real truth was revealed to me. I first tried them with the stock Hypex NC-500 OEM input buffer. Definitely more powerful than the NC-400’s, but the LM-4562 based input buffer had a coloration to it that just wasn’t natural. This is when I started modding the board with upgraded regulators and discrete opamps.

I started out with some Burson opamps then ordered up some Sparko’s. I liked the Sparko’s better than the Burson’s but still wasn’t totally satisfied. So I ordered up a pair of SIL-994’s. Once they arrived I tried them out in my modded buffer and ended up with a high noise floor. So I discussed this with Richard at Sonic Imagery labs. He said send them in and he will test them. So I did. Turned out the noise was Johnson noise from the input resistors. So he came up with a fix to deal with the noise. Here’s the measured result after that fix:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172307)

So he shipped them back and I listened. They sounded outstanding. But still not good enough so I went on making further tweaks. Shortly after I seen Colin from Nord was announcing he was going to build an NC-500 based amp on Diyaudio. But his plans were to use the stock Hypex buffer. I knew that would be a disaster so I decided to just tell him my input buffer design, along with all the parts he will need to order to build it. But I didn’t tell him the circuit design to use. I figured I’d let him come up with that on his own. Also at this time I didn’t say a word about the SIL-994. Only the Bursons and Sparko’s. So he went ahead and built a board. He called it his “revision B”. I told the Mod Joe at Audioshark about this amp and he went and bought one. He was so impressed he started the AS thread that has now become the second most popular amp thread on AS. Then I asked Colin to send me a set of boards to try out. Once they arrived I tried them and didn’t like what I heard. The noise floor was high, and it didn’t sound right. Not near as good as my modded Hypex board. So I told him this and also shared pics of his boards with the SIL-994 installed in them.

Colin asked me what that big opamp I installed in his boards was. I said the SIL-994. But it doesn’t work in your boards as they are. Way too noisy. And even the Sparko’s and Burson’s in your boards are noisy, just not as bad. So I told him where to get the SIL-994, and Richard publicly shared the modded Hypex board schematic on Diyaudio. Colin made a new board based on this fix called the “Rev C” and this is what he’s using to date. Only thing he changed was swapping the regulators to Sparko’s. I tried the Sparko’s regs and liked them a Lot. And when you buy 100+ the cost drops to only $12 a piece. But after I compared to the Belleson’s, even though the 100+ unit cost is almost triple @ $29.95 each, there was no turning back for me. That’s why I use Belleson’s in my Purestream DAC as well as my 8th gen Weiss OP2-BP based NC-500 input buffer. Also to power the modulator section of the NC-500 discretely with my Purestream power supply. One of the tricks I learn’t  along my journey was how bad the Hypex SMPS1200A700 aux supply sounds compared to my Purestream supply. And that sharing the same regulators that power the input opamp and modulator is a big no no. For top performance, each section needs powered discretely. But of course this sends the cost to build an NC-500 amp through the stratosphere.

The moral of the story is dryness isn't a prerequisite for superior objective performance. However it is a repercussion of audio gear designed to numbers only. When you combine ears with measurement gear, you can get the best of both worlds. No need to choose 1 or the other. My Weiss OP-2 BP based buffer has a 150dB dynamic range and is the smoothest sound I've heard to date from the NC-500's.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 03:45 pm
So, you think I can possibly get my 6 channel on my birthday Mike? It would be a nice birthday present and very thoughtful of you  :dunno: Oh and it's just 5 days before Christmas.  :wink:

That's probably pushing it. Takachi emailed me back after I went to bed. But no answers yet as they had an additional question for me to answer. Now they're closed. I need to wait till they open this afternoon my time to hear back again.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 04:28 pm
If anyone is wondering what the Weiss OP2-BP is, it's a masterpiece of a discrete class A opamp designed by Daniel Weiss in Switzerland. By far the best I've ever heard. It's the upgraded version of this opamp:

http://www.weiss.ch/files/downloads/op1-bp/OP1-BP-Datasheet-R1.pdf

And it's what I now use exclusively in all my gain stages. Also what's used in the latest version of the Weiss Medus DAC.

Here they are installed in my 8th gen NC-500 buffer:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172322)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172323)

And in the Weiss Medus:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172326)



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 4 Dec 2017, 05:31 pm
Thanks Mike for your efforts to get the amps to us sooner.

Earlier in this thread, there was a link to the old 2012 Hypex NC400 Tour thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0)).

I enjoyed revisiting that thread as that's the amp I'm using now. Back then, everyone was over the moon about the NC400. It's still the best amp I've heard, so I get I need to get out more :lol:. But my point is, this IceEdge will likely offer performance I didn't realize was possible. So I'm eager to hear it.

Yes, the amps made quite a splash but then, like a pebble tossed into a pond, the waves subsided.  The last post in the Hypex Owners Circle was in July, 2015.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 05:37 pm
Yes, the amps made quite a splash but then, like a pebble tossed into a pond, the waves subsided.  The last post in the Hypex Owners Circle was in July, 2015.

They're great amps. But I think the cold dryness factor is what turned many away. Bruno himself even admitted later that some of his OEM's may have come up with better sounding amps based on his modules  than he did himself. I shared pictures of my Purepower amp with 8th gen buffer with the head Hypex engineer. He said Wow! But I honestly don't think Hypex has even heard the NC-500's taken to that level. It's just too impractical to make an NC-500 based amp so expensive. Because when people hear "Ncore" they think no matter what they'll all be the same regardless of price. Same thing with DAC chips. People always judge DAC's from the chip alone, and ignore all the other important details that matter much more.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: orientalexpress on 4 Dec 2017, 07:20 pm
Mike
That impressive
You are dangerous to my wallets  :o

Lap
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 07:26 pm
Mike
That impressive
You are dangerous to my wallets  :o

Lap

ha ha!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 07:29 pm
Hey guys,

Just got off the phone with Don. He has a pair of Martin Logan Monolith 3's in his garage.

https://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/brochures/brochure_monolith_iii.pdf

They dip down to 1 ohm impedance. Next weekend's party is going to be a 1200AS torture test taking these monsters to the limit :) I'll post pictures and impressions.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 4 Dec 2017, 10:53 pm
You're welcome! I know the lot 1-2-3 guys would love to have their amps playing while eating turkey this Xmas. And the lot 4 guys partying on New years with music amplified by these amps. I'm not promising anything, but I'm trying my best.

I'm in Lot 1 - 6 channel so I thank you very much for your effort in this regard  :green: :thumb:

Here's to hoping it all works out!  :beer:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 4 Dec 2017, 10:55 pm
Looking forward to playing with this new toy.  Any idea what the power output into my 16 ohm speakers will be?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 4 Dec 2017, 10:59 pm
Thanks guys!

I'm not sure of the 16 ohm power output as it's not on the datasheet. But it should certainly be enough power to drive your speaker to absurd levels. No less than most other amps that have 1200wpc into 4 ohms and 600wpc into 8.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: audio.bill on 4 Dec 2017, 11:37 pm
Thanks guys!

I'm not sure of the 16 ohm power output as it's not on the datasheet. But it should certainly be enough power to drive your speaker to absurd levels. No less than most other amps that have 1200wpc into 8 ohms and 600wpc into 8.
Mike - It appears as if you made a typo in the power ratings stated above - they were previously given as 600wpc into 8 ohms and 1200wpc into 4 ohms. Regarding its power output into 16 ohms, since the module appears to be acting as a virtual constant voltage source (doubling power output into half the impedance) its output into 16 ohms is likely in the 300wpc range.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 5 Dec 2017, 01:31 am
Yes you’re right I made a typo. Yes you’re most likely correct. But I didn’t want to make any official quotes without confirming. Most 16 ohm speakers are very efficient. 3dB more of efficiency in the speakers is equivalent to double the power. So I’m sure they won’t be underpowered for anyone’s application.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mhndsv on 5 Dec 2017, 06:33 am
Thanks for the order! I can’t wait to get these out to you guys! Finally we will have impressions of the 6 channel used in an active speaker setup!

Further to my earlier post, I had been looking for a high quality 6 channel amp for some time.

I had considered a 2 box solution containing 4 modules of the Anaview AMS modules ( 2 bridged mono and 2 stereo), from a supplier in Europe. However, it was quite a bit more expensive . I have heard that module being used by a local enthusiast, and quite liked the sound.

I had also considered the Hypex multichannel modules from the same Europe supplier as well as 3 of the Crown XLS 1502 pro amps.

 In the end, what made me go with the 6 channel amp were the relatively higher power at 8 ohms  (where I will be running my speakers at), and the competitive price, as 3 of the stereo modules would have cost $2700, plus the cost of shipping 3 amps internationally. The fact the the designer of the Anaview amps is now with Icepower was a bonus.

Now I just have to start looking for a 3 way crossover/DSP to do justice to these amps. :D

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 5 Dec 2017, 05:04 pm
Well you made a wise decision. You may want to check out this thread for a DSP solution:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152922.0
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sandbagger on 5 Dec 2017, 06:06 pm
Well you made a wise decision. You may want to check out this thread for a DSP solution:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152922.0

While I cant speak to the new 16CH box I did get to play with the older rev and it sounded great.
Rich is a great guy and knows a few things about DSP

Really looking forward to getting my 2ch amp and comparing it to my Emo XPR-1's
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 5 Dec 2017, 06:50 pm
So I have arrangements made for local machining. Under 1 week lead time per lot! However I didn't hear back from Takachi on whether or not they can ship the cases faster if I don't have them do the machining. I hope I hear back today.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 03:27 am
Okay I’m not going to be able to change the status of Lot 1-2-3 cases. Takachi is very rigid and not willing to provide any flexibility on how things are done. It’s their way or the highway. They don’t want to lose out on the machining work.

Regarding Lot 4-2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel, I’m working on not only getting them out faster, but improveing upon the case quality as well at no extra charge. But I will only follow through with this if I can deliver sooner than Takachi’s mid January leadtime quote. I’ll keep you guys posted.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 05:46 am
Just heard from Takachi again. I was quoted the same lead time without machining as with machining. And if I just want some parts from them they jack the price up to the point where it's foolish not to buy the full cases. I guess this is their incentive to get them to do everything.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 6 Dec 2017, 06:15 am
Shrewd businessmen over at Takachi. Thanks for keeping us posted!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 06:25 am
Shrewd businessmen over at Takachi. Thanks for keeping us posted!

Well I guess they figure getting a little more work now, will be more fruitful than no more work in the long term. They're busy enough, they don't need more business.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 07:09 am
Here's the mission statement of some other German professionals I'm going to be working with on some SOTA no-compromise aluminum based products. I think we will get along just fine :)

"Innovation is the dissatisfaction with the best solution"

I really like that.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 08:23 am
So I've been thinking guys. Just like I'm doing now with the cables/connectors, I decided I'm going to offer 3 levels of case quality options for all my products. And I'm also going to offer the option for anyone to upgrade from the lower grade options to a higher grade at any time. However if there's any damage to the cases, I will need to deduct the damage. All traded up cases with damage will be up for grabs as lower cost options for folks interested in my products. So if there's a scratch, I'll just offer it for less money. I'll make a section for the discounted cases on my website with high resolution photo's of the damage.

The lowest tier of cases will be the Takachi HY series.

http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/c16/HYR_02.pdf

Very nice cases for the money, just like the CMC pure copper binding posts, Neutrik connectors and Mogami cable are. But lots of room for improvement, just like with the Furutech and Neotech upgrades. The next 2 tiers will be revealed once I get the prototypes built. I'm shifting into high gear on that process right now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 6 Dec 2017, 01:25 pm
We lawyers have a saying to clients when a project comes in: fast, cheap and good. You can only get two out of the three.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 6 Dec 2017, 02:00 pm
Wow the takachi cases were already pretty nice.  My imagination is running wild thinking of what the upgrade options might be.  Ferrari red or lambo yellow automotive paint?  Pass style vu meters?  Absolare style leather covered panels?  Built in stillpoints?  Vertical tower format?  Cat defense system? 

(http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/6/69462/img_2830_1_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 02:48 pm
No they will look similar to the Takachi cases. Only thicker and better quality aluminum. Takachi has 3mm front/back panels and 2mm top/bottom panels. The mid level will have 1/8” top/bottom panels and 1/4” front back panels. The top will have 1/4” top/bottom panels, and 1/2” front back panels.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 6 Dec 2017, 02:50 pm
Any idea on price difference?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 02:51 pm
Any idea on price difference?

Not yet I’ll need to figure out my costs. I’ll be able to keep my leadtime very short on the 2 better tiers of cases. Because I can buy a bunch of aluminum and have it ready to process.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 03:06 pm
A large portion of my costs for the Takachi cases are shipping and import duty fees. I’ll be able to eliminate those costs building locally. So my cost for the mid tier cases won’t be much more than the landed cost of the Takachi cases. The only thing I’ll need to import is the heatsinks out of Germany.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: orientalexpress on 6 Dec 2017, 03:08 pm
Mike
just wondering when your DAC is ready to release?
Does you Dac does DSD?
Thanks

 :thumb:
lap
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 6 Dec 2017, 03:11 pm
The dac only does 256 DSD and sounds incredible.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 03:13 pm
Mike
just wondering when your DAC is ready to release?
Does you Dac does DSD?
Thanks

 :thumb:
lap

My next gen streamer/dac/pre likely won’t be ready until the spring/summer. Yes it will do DSD. In fact it will be a DSD 256 only DAC like my Purestream. You just set your media player to output all PCM/DSD to DSD 256.

If you want a DAC now I still have 1 Purestream left with Weiss OP2-BP opamps. And I can offer 100% credit with trade up to my new streamer/DAC/Pre when ready.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 6 Dec 2017, 03:14 pm
No they will look similar to the Takachi cases. Only thicker and better quality aluminum. Takachi has 3mm front/back panels and 2mm top/bottom panels. The mid level will have 1/8” top/bottom panels and 1/4” front back panels. The top will have 1/4” top/bottom panels, and 1/2” front back panels.

metrics:

Quote
3 mm[/b] top/bottom panels and 6 mm front back panels. The top will have 6 mm top/bottom panels, and 12,7 mm front back panels


You know I have VERY BIG problems in my house with mains: DC, RF/EMI interferences and high voltage too.

But I have or I had RF/EMI interferences on the air.

First I try with a 3 mm steel sheet above the Marantz and the sound was better. And when I place below my iFi iCAN heaphone amp (thin aluminum) the same.

[Added] [IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/AV-Marantz-SR4500-ifi-iCAN-KEF-Q100-ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Ripple-Blocker-x4-ME.jpg

Months ago I tried with 1 mm steel sheet (I stuck it under a shelf so it was not visible) in the other system, with Yamaha and the sound was better two. With the 3 mm Marantz's steel sheet I did not notice any additional improvement => with 1 mm steel sheet is enough.

[Updated] My tweaked ODAC is inside other aluminum box -> 1 mm +  1mm = 2 mm aluminum. When I put up and down two pieces of steel I got the necessary shielding!

[Added] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-Case-Preamp-Box-PSU-Chassis-DIY-114-50-210MM-GE-/112091503708
Quote
Front and back panel 5mm.  side panel: 3mm.   Top and Base plate: 4mm  <= It was only  1mm!  :x

I was investigating and I concluded that 4 mm thick aluminum or more is needed to have the same shielding capacity as 1 mm steel.

In short, that your new American box is much more appropriate than the Japanese one to attenuate the RF/EMI interferences outside the box.

PS: AV Marantz and AV Yamaha have a leaky top cover as a cheap way to improve heat dissipation like almost AV but interference is spread out there!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 03:17 pm
metrics:



You know I have VERY BIG problems in my house with mains: DC, RF/EMI interferences and high voltage too.

But I have or I had RF/EMI interferences on the air.

First I try with a 3 mm steel sheet above the Marantz and the sound was better. And when I place below my iFi iCAN heaphone amp (thin aluminum) the same

Months ago I tried with 1 mm steel sheet (I stuck it under a shelf so it was not visible) in the other system, with Yamaha and the sound was better two. With the 3 mm Marantz's steel sheet I did not notice any additional improvement => with 1 mm steel sheet is enough.

My tweaked ODAC is inside other aluminum box -> 1 mm +  1mm = 2 mm aluminum. With the sheet of three I did not notice any additional improvement!!!

I was investigating and I concluded that 4 mm thick aluminum or more is needed to have the same shielding capacity as 1 mm steel.

In short, that your new American box is much more appropriate than the Japanese one to attenuate the RF/EMI interferences outside the box.

Yeah there’s definitely advantages to thicker aluminum. Also for vibration dampening.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 6 Dec 2017, 03:20 pm
If the price of the mid tier case isn't much more than the cost of the landed Takachi case, I'd be more than willing to wait for the better case.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 03:32 pm
If the price of the mid tier case isn't much more than the cost of the landed Takachi case, I'd be more than willing to wait for the better case.

Well anyone can have that option. Like I mentioned, even if you own the Takachi case and decide later that you want to upgrade, not a problem. I’ll alway be able to re-sell the takachi cases to someone who wants to spend less. I’m going to my local waterjet shop today for a meeting. They’re going to do all the profile cutting with their SOTA waterjet machine.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172385)

Then all the drills/taps will be finished on a SOTA CNC machine. From there I will send the panels to the finest aluminum finishing shop in Canada for anodizing.

http://www.altechanodizing.com

I used to own a machine shop with a big 5x10’ German Flexicam CNC machine. So my understanding of how this process works is pretty good.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 6 Dec 2017, 04:05 pm
And the last

Yamaha A-S3000

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/a-s3000/index.html#product-tabs

Quote
Rigid Streamlined Construction— provides strict anti-vibration protection, and enables shortest cabling routes

Large toroidal transformer, solidly mounted with independent three-dimensional inner frame

Comprehensive low impedance design, shortened signal paths and copper-plated chassis

Six mm thick top panel made of non-magnetic aluminium plate...

like your american box.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 04:29 pm
For all Lot 1-4 2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel guys. Once I get all production and pricing details sorted on the new cases, I’m going to offer the upgrade options in my web shop. Anyone will have the option to upgrade. I can just keep your Takachi cases in inventory for future lots. So not a problem.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 6 Dec 2017, 04:42 pm
For all Lot 1-4 2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel guys. Once I get all production and pricing details sorted on the new cases, I’m going to offer the upgrade options in my web shop. Anyone will have the option to upgrade. I can just keep your Takachi cases in inventory for future lots. So not a problem.

Thank you Mike.  I like that option a lot.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 6 Dec 2017, 05:01 pm
Yep - that answered my next question. Thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 05:04 pm
No problem guys! When I come up with ways to do things better, nobody will ever lose out. With my business model I don’t have middlemen taking a piece of the pie. If I did it would be impossible to offer 100% credit trade ups. Because they would need their cut as well which would make it impossible to do.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 6 Dec 2017, 05:25 pm
Mike,
   Do you get your laser etching done at Altech? Maybe they'll give you a price break if you have that done too.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 05:32 pm
Mike,
   Do you get your laser etching done at Altech? Maybe they'll give you a price break if you have that done too.

Yes I can get them to do laser etching. I’ve seen their laser etching work and it’s very good. Gallery here:

http://www.altechanodizing.com/products-services/laser-etching/

If someone wants laser etching on their case I can offer this option. But 1 step up from laser etching is engraved and paint filled. That will be my premium option.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 6 Dec 2017, 05:49 pm
I will work on optional front/rear panel templates for laser etching/engraving. Then anyone can choose if they want it added to their cases.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 02:39 am
I’m ordering enough genuine Kaiser 6061 T6 precision plate aluminum for 300 cases tomorrow. I’m going to have all of it cut up into panels and machined right away. Then when lots fill all I’ll need to do is send off for finishing/anodizing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 7 Dec 2017, 07:17 am
I'm down for one of the medium tier cases.  Always buy american!  Or uh... Canadian!  You said the heatsinks are from Germany?  Are they going to be bigger?  For looks only?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 08:21 am
The heat sinks help dissipate heat from the case. They aren't bigger than the Takachi, just better quality.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172426)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 7 Dec 2017, 08:30 am
for some of us who are getting the amps in the first lot, will their be an option to upgrade to mid-tier case before it ships ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 08:38 am
for some of us who are getting the amps in the first lot, will their be an option to upgrade to mid-tier case before it ships ?

Yes. I'm going to get the parts milled then put a couple together before the anodizing to show you guys what they look like. Then I'll add them to the webshop as an upgrade option. But It may be January before they can ship. I'm not sure. I'll need to see what the anodizing shop lead time is at the time the parts are ready for anodizing. I'll also be adding a laser etched front and rear panel option.

For the 6 channel amp, since I'm not limited by the sizes available from Takachi, I'll make it a bit wider so I can put the IEC inlet on the far right for better rear panel symmetry.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 7 Dec 2017, 02:51 pm
Any idea when the amps in the first group will ship if I do not want to upgrade the case?  No hurry - just planning my life.  My main interest here is to see what difference 300 watts into 16 ohms 95 dB efficiency speakers make over my current 3 to 10 (depends on amp).  Hope I don't blow anything up  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 7 Dec 2017, 03:28 pm
I think he said december 27th or so for batch one and two both?  based on when the takachi cases arrive.. he said other components will be in hand way before then.  I'll let him answer, I just didn't want you to be kept in suspense until he wakes up :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mick wolfe on 7 Dec 2017, 03:53 pm
Any idea when the amps in the first group will ship if I do not want to upgrade the case?  No hurry - just planning my life.  My main interest here is to see what difference 300 watts into 16 ohms 95 dB efficiency speakers make over my current 3 to 10 (depends on amp).  Hope I don't blow anything up  :D

I surely like how my modest Classdaudio 254 at 250 watts (into 4 ohms) performs with my M2 Turbo's. Nothing's going to blow up. In fact, you'll probably notice a greater sense of ease if anything.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 06:09 pm
Any idea when the amps in the first group will ship if I do not want to upgrade the case?  No hurry - just planning my life.  My main interest here is to see what difference 300 watts into 16 ohms 95 dB efficiency speakers make over my current 3 to 10 (depends on amp).  Hope I don't blow anything up  :D

Nothing has changed with the 1st Takachi case delivery around Christmas. As soon as I get them, I’ll start shipping out in the order I received the orders.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 7 Dec 2017, 06:31 pm
Mike, I know it was mentioned somewhere here but can't find it. What's the gain of the 1200as?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 7 Dec 2017, 06:38 pm
Other day I suggested this Bulgarian power (star quad) cable + rhodium plugs made by Aleksandar (ATL-HiFi).

https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/audio-cables/1-5-m-power-cable-silver-in-ptfe-rhodium-plated-us-iec-connectors/

Today, in Nuprime circle, Samac, this American power cable.

Quote
About a month ago I replaced my WireWorld Stratus power cord with the Cullen Cable Avius power cord. This power cable is fantastic....

(I had the Red Copper plugs put on mine)

Red Copper Series 3 feet $81 ... 8 feet $115

http://www.cullencable.com/red-series/

[IMG] http://www.cullencable.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/P3090690-1200x800.jpg

Quote
Power cables these days are outrageously overpriced, so Cullen is proud to present its affordable alternatives. The Red Copper Series consists of three 10awg 99.99% pure OFC copper wires (comprising 41 individual 30awg strands per wire) in one jacket, spun in a rotation that helps reject noise and RF... and bla, bla, bla

spun in a rotation that helps reject noise and RF -> better idea a star quad cable but...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 06:53 pm
Mike, I know it was mentioned somewhere here but can't find it. What's the gain of the 1200as?

25.8dB
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 09:15 pm
Busy morning today talking to aluminum suppliers, machinists and anodizers. Things are looking very good, and I'm confident I have all the best of the best involved with every step. On my first batch I'm going to have enough parts milled and finished for 300 cases. From there all the parts will go to Altech for anodizing/laser etching. However the anodizing will only get done on a lot to lot basis. This way each case can have the custom options and colors each individual wants. Great part is lead time for anodizing/etching will only be 1 week! Come January the amp module lead times are going to reduce as the inventory at Icepower builds up. So my goal of 2 week lead times is starting to look very realistic.

Regarding the new cases for all lot 1-4 2 channel, and lot-1 6 channel guys I came up with a plan. For everyone who ordered assembled cases, the upgrade to my mid level case will be free. For everyone who ordered kits, if you want to upgrade to the mid level case cost will be $200. But you'll get an assembled amp along with 10 year warranty.

Starting with lot 5 there will be price adjustments reflecting the new cases and possible increases in amp module pricing. There's still 1-6 channel amp left in lot 1 and a couple 2 channel amps left in lot 4. So not too late to get in on this deal yet. Until my webshop says "sold out" under each amp, they're still available.

I won't open the upgrade option in my webshop until I have units done at least up to the stage before anodizing. This way you guys will be able to see what you're upgrading to. I'll share high resolution photos of all panels and compare directly to the Takachi cases panel by panel.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 7 Dec 2017, 09:46 pm
Regarding the new cases for all lot 1-4 2 channel, and lot-1 6 channel guys I came up with a plan. For everyone who ordered assembled cases, the upgrade to my mid level case will be free. For everyone who ordered kits, if you want to upgrade to the mid level case cost will be $200. But you'll get an assembled amp along with 10 year

Awesome I am in with better case, I can wait  :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rklein on 7 Dec 2017, 09:53 pm
Busy morning today talking to aluminum suppliers, machinists and anodizers. Things are looking very good, and I'm confident I have all the best of the best involved with every step. On my first batch I'm going to have enough parts milled and finished for 300 cases. From there all the parts will go to Altech for anodizing/laser etching. However the anodizing will only get done on a lot to lot basis. This way each case can have the custom options and colors each individual wants. Great part is lead time for anodizing/etching will only be 1 week! Come January the amp module lead times are going to reduce as the inventory at Icepower builds up. So my goal of 2 week lead times is starting to look very realistic.

Regarding the new cases for all lot 1-4 2 channel, and lot-1 6 channel guys I came up with a plan. For everyone who ordered assembled cases, the upgrade to my mid level case will be free. For everyone who ordered kits, if you want to upgrade to the mid level case cost will be $200. But you'll get an assembled amp along with 10 year warranty.

Starting with lot 5 there will be price adjustments reflecting the new cases and possible increases in amp module pricing. There's still 1-6 channel amp left in lot 1 and a couple 2 channel amps left in lot 4. So not too late to get in on this deal yet. Until my webshop says "sold out" under each amp, they're still available.

I won't open the upgrade option in my webshop until I have units done at least up to the stage before anodizing. This way you guys will be able to see what you're upgrading to. I'll share high resolution photos of all panels and compare directly to the Takachi cases panel by panel.

Mike:

I am in Lot 1 and can't believe how this thread has evolved!!  In any case, thank you for all of your attention to detail regarding all of these changes(which have been many!).  It will be very helpful to view the comparison of these cases.  A $200 upgrade for a better case and have it assembled is way cool.

Regards,

Randy
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 7 Dec 2017, 09:54 pm
Mike,
    Is the warranty transferrable? Your business model is impeccable!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 10:08 pm
Thanks guys. I'm going to need to eat a bit of profit on these first lots to pull it off, but it will be worth it in the end. In the end everyone will have a better product, I will have 100% control over the entire process, and lead times will be drastically reduced.

 Yes the warranty will be transferable.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 7 Dec 2017, 10:31 pm
Mike, your bet for this product is evidence that you believe you have found a winning product, for quality, price and service. In short, a disruptive product that will alter the business model in audiophile world, you and I think.

Many are going to bother, watch your back.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 10:34 pm
Mike, your bet for this product is evidence that you believe you have found a winning product, for quality, price and service. In short, a disruptive product that will alter the business model in audiophile world, you and I think.

Many are going to bother, watch your back.

If my business model ends up taking some of the market share away from others does that mean I'm doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 7 Dec 2017, 11:40 pm
I thought I'd share some details on why I'm moving to such good quality cases, along with the 10 year warranty. The reason why I'm using such great quality cases is because I want them to be used for decades. Whenever the latest and greatest of any amp module, DAC, preamp, power supply etc technology comes out, you'll always be able to simply upgrade the modules to the new technology, without replacing the cases. If the bolt patterns are different, I'll make adapter plates to mount them to. I only work with the best of the best engineers in the industry. So I will always be ahead of the curve to introduce the very latest technology from DAC's to amplifiers, at the lowest cost possible. It will always only be a matter of swapping modules to upgrade. Gone will be the days of dumping on Audiogon for 50% off every couple of years to keep up. Low cost module upgrades will always keep you with the best gear possible. I'm tired of this disposable throw everything away and replace with all new world we live in today. I want to get back to the days where we kept products forever, and never get tired of them.

And this is also where the 10 year warranty comes in. I want to keep my clients, and discourage them from ever wanting to sell. The 10 year warranty is just another way of achieving this goal. It's also a great way to preserve resale value. You'll always be able to keep your current audio gear up to date with the very latest model with simple low cost module upgrades. in 2027 your case today can be the exact thing people buy new then, with only the swap of a simple low cost module. I want to see these cases handed down through the generations. The high grade genuine Kaiser precision plate 6061 T6 aluminum, along with the finest anodizing process available will keep these cases looking new for decades.

And lastly, if you ever decide to upgrade modules one day, the 10 year warranty period for that module will reset.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 12:42 am
A little info on Kaiser aluminum and why it's the best available:

https://www.kaiseraluminum.com/about-us/the-kaiser-difference/kaiser-select/

Here's the exact plate I'm using:

https://online.kaiseraluminum.com/depot/PublicProductInformation/Document/1043/KaiserSelect_General_Engineering_Plate.pdf
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 8 Dec 2017, 02:21 am
Wow the PDF says it can be used as armor plating.
You could call this your new line of bulletproof amps.  I accept royalties ;)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: srb on 8 Dec 2017, 02:48 am
Wow the PDF says it can be used as armor plating.

I guess it would depend on the thickness, but it I were trying to shield myself from gunfire of any appreciable caliber, aluminum would be rather far down on my list.  ;)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: pdg540 on 8 Dec 2017, 02:56 am
I guess it would depend on the thickness, but it I were trying to shield myself from gunfire of any appreciable caliber, aluminum would be rather far down on my list.  ;)

How about shielding yourself from a flame thrower?   :o
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 09:00 am
Here's the new 6 channel rear panel in the 1/2" thick premium case option. I widened the 6 channel case to 530mm total. The fuse holder will now be on the bottom panel.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172490)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 8 Dec 2017, 09:12 am
Looks good, but at that width wouldnt fit in a standard cabinet if used for home theatre. Actually, if I was going to use this for home theatre would need 7 channels. But, I guess this is aimed more at active multiple driver 2 channel users.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 09:25 am
Looks good, but at that width wouldnt fit in a standard cabinet if used for home theatre. Actually, if I was going to use this for home theatre would need 7 channels. But, I guess this is aimed more at active multiple driver 2 channel users.

Well if it's too wide for anyone they can let me know. I can nest the IEC inlet back between the modules and make it 430mm again. I can always make a wide and narrow version. I'm no longer limited in my flexibility by not using Takachi.

Here's the new 2 channel premium rear panel. Fuse holder also moved to the bottom.



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172492)





Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 09:31 am
I'll be able to anodize in any color now as well. Silver and black will be standard, but if anyone wants any other color it won't be an issue.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 8 Dec 2017, 09:40 am
wow any color at all?  like black, red, purple, blue, silver, reflective chrome, cold?

the only other company I know that does that is headamp for the electrostatic headphone amps.. and maybe klaus bunge at odyssey will do custom colors

https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/5807586.jpg (https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/5807586.jpg)
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/gsx-mk2-18.jpg (https://parttimeaudiophile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/gsx-mk2-18.jpg)
https://www.themasterswitch.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/BHSE.jpg (https://www.themasterswitch.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/BHSE.jpg)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 09:45 am
If you scroll down to the bottom here and go to color samples they have 9 standard colors. But they also say they can do custom colors. So probably anything.

http://www.altechanodizing.com/products-services/anodizing/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 8 Dec 2017, 01:07 pm
ack, color option paralysis.  I already thought the takachi cases looked nice in silver.  Let's see some example pics of kaiser aluminum fancy anodized cases soon!  To mentally justify our possible upgrades.  So anodizing.. can that create the shiny/glossy polished look of the headamp chassis' or is it more of a matte only thing?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sandbagger on 8 Dec 2017, 01:16 pm
ack, color option paralysis.  I already thought the takachi cases looked nice in silver.  Let's see some example pics of kaiser aluminum fancy anodized cases soon!  To mentally justify our possible upgrades.  So anodizing.. can that create the shiny/glossy polished look of the headamp chassis' or is it more of a matte only thing?

That take a lot and I mean a LOT of prep work.  Has to be mirror polished prior to anodizing and has to be handled in almost a clean room like condition.  It also takes a bit of a special process. 

I would think if you wanted HIGH GLOSS COLORS a powdercoat would be a better idea
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 8 Dec 2017, 01:27 pm
Well if it's too wide for anyone they can let me know. I can nest the IEC inlet back between the modules and make it 430mm again. I can always make a wide and narrow version. I'm no longer limited in my flexibility by not using Takachi.

It might be beneficial to design the case widths to EIA/IEC/DIN standards for use in standard 19-inch racks, whether accommodating ears for rack mounting or not, if you think these amps will be installed in equipment closets and or similar home theater installations.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 8 Dec 2017, 01:34 pm
Well I’m wondering about a custom faceplate color and different body color. Would two tone in this manner be an option?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 8 Dec 2017, 01:43 pm
I think standard silver or black would make resale much easier. The Takachi cases look pretty nice. Hopefully they don't bend when you push in on them. The mid tier case would probably look a bit better and would suffice for most. The 1/2" premium case would probably be overkill unless you're packing it to the gills with electronics, plus the cost would be substantially more. It's nice to have options though.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 8 Dec 2017, 01:45 pm
That take a lot and I mean a LOT of prep work.  Has to be mirror polished prior to anodizing and has to be handled in almost a clean room like condition.  It also takes a bit of a special process. 

I would think if you wanted HIGH GLOSS COLORS a powdercoat would be a better idea

Something like a Jeff Rowland amp, is this a special process to get that polished look?



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172497)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 8 Dec 2017, 02:12 pm
Well, I'm pretty excited with all these improvements.  :thumb:

I'm Lot 1 and paid for a case, so I'll happily upgrade my case. Thank you, Mike!

I've got another question for you concerning the DAC/pre. Will it connect to the amp via XLR or RCA, or can it have both? In your opinion, Mike, which connection is superior?

Thank you.

Michael
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: audio.bill on 8 Dec 2017, 03:14 pm
Something like a Jeff Rowland amp, is this a special process to get that polished look?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172497)
Jeff Rowland faceplates and chassis tops are produced with an extensive process to achieve their unique appearance:

The surface of the faceplate and top cover are carefully cut in a unique process that uses a diamond tipped blade. This process was refined over many years to produce an artistic and attractive finish which has been copied a number of times but never equaled. The faceplate is then finished with fine automobile polyurethane clear coat to preserve the clarity of the finish and allow the brilliant radiance of the diamond cut process to shine.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 8 Dec 2017, 03:16 pm
Yeesh, sounds expensive. Thanks audio.bill
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 8 Dec 2017, 03:34 pm
IMO,While it's great to have all these options, I personally prefer companies that offer 2 versions such as a standard model and an SE which in this case would have upgraded wire, connectors and case. Or with cars, there are usually packages SE, LE, GT, etc. That way when a piece of audio gear/car/etc is reviewed, we all know which version is being reviewed. When you decide to sell a unit or buy a used one, you know exactly what you are buying. I think it would be easier for you to minimize custom orders and manage inventory by offering 2 versions
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 04:06 pm
I really like the light brushed look of the Takachi cases in silver. But I’m going to Vancouver next week to check out different finishes. Offering different colors won’t be any more work for me. The anodizing shop will be doing the work. However there may be a slightly longer leadtime/cost. That can be determined at the time and the client can decide what they want to do.

Having different cable connector options isn’t any more work for me either. If someone resells and the buyer wants to upgrade/downgrade the cables/connectors, they can get new pre-fabricated harnesses from me. Not a big deal.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rajacat on 8 Dec 2017, 04:21 pm
It would be great if these amps were available with built-in crossovers like the Crown XLS series.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 04:22 pm
Well, I'm pretty excited with all these improvements.  :thumb:

I'm Lot 1 and paid for a case, so I'll happily upgrade my case. Thank you, Mike!

I've got another question for you concerning the DAC/pre. Will it connect to the amp via XLR or RCA, or can it have both? In your opinion, Mike, which connection is superior?

Thank you.

Michael

You’re welcome! Since all of my gear will be fully balanced from front to back, going with XLR’s will be the better choice.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 04:24 pm
It would be great if these amps were available with built-in crossovers like the Crown XLS series.

Well to do active crossovers right, it gets very expensive. I’m not interested in adding any components that would bottleneck the performance of these amps. Any less than MSB Select 2 quality DAC’s for each channel won’t meet my minimum standard for a DSP system.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 04:54 pm
It might be beneficial to design the case widths to EIA/IEC/DIN standards for use in standard 19-inch racks, whether accommodating ears for rack mounting or not, if you think these amps will be installed in equipment closets and or similar home theater installations.

I’ll email everyone who ordered 6 channels and ask. It works out better for the rear panel layout to go wider. Not everyone is restricted with standard cabinet sizes.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 04:57 pm
Well I’m wondering about a custom faceplate color and different body color. Would two tone in this manner be an option?

I could make every panel a different color if you want. If it costs extra I’ll just let you know. They have massive tubs with every color going continuously. So may not even add to lead time or cost. I’ll ask next week when I go do a tour.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 05:13 pm
I think standard silver or black would make resale much easier. The Takachi cases look pretty nice. Hopefully they don't bend when you push in on them. The mid tier case would probably look a bit better and would suffice for most. The 1/2" premium case would probably be overkill unless you're packing it to the gills with electronics, plus the cost would be substantially more. It's nice to have options though.


Silver, black and white cars are the most popular as well. But people still order other colors. If being able to resell quickly is top priority, then sticking to the standard silver/black may be the safest bet.

Also if anyone was to buy used, and they don’t like the color/cable/connector options, they can always send it back to me to swap cases, cables, connectors at any time. If the parts are anything less than mint they will go in the discount bin for folks looking for a deal. You’d only need to pay the difference between the new parts, and what I can get out of your old parts.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 08:55 pm
If a premium case is overkill with this amp, then a premium case is overkill with any amp. There’s many $10000+ NC-1200 based amps out there in fancy cases. And this amp certainly isn’t a downgrade. Many of Jeff Rowland's amps are just off the shelf all in 1 class D modules in a fancy case. Main difference is the Pascal modules used are far cheaper than the 1200AS.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172513)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 8 Dec 2017, 11:55 pm
I’m think I’m going to mill the heatsinks out of solid Kaiser 6061 T6 billet rather than buying the German extruded heatsinks. This will take the quality up another level yet. Also ensures uniform anodizing on all panels.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 9 Dec 2017, 01:29 am
Here's the new 6 channel rear panel in the 1/2" thick premium case option. I widened the 6 channel case to 530mm total. The fuse holder will now be on the bottom panel.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172490)
OK so now I'm thinking of changing my 6 channel to a full complement of balanced and RCA outputs. Will be the cost of the input wire will double? I did order the Neotech wire for the balanced inputs  :(

The nicer the case, the more satisfaction I get from staring at my audio system day after day. It's great you're paying so much attention to detail.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 01:57 am
OK so now I'm thinking of changing my 6 channel to a full complement of balanced and RCA outputs. Will be the cost of the input wire will double? I did order the Neotech wire for the balanced inputs  :(

The nicer the case, the more satisfaction I get from staring at my audio system day after day. It's great you're paying so much attention to detail.  :thumb:

If you want both you need to buy 3 additional harnesses of your choice. Then to upgrade the wire, just add 3 additional input wires of choice. By default they come with Mogami. These are full sets with amp connector, wire and input connectors soldered together. They're at the bottom of the list in my webshop. 

Are you fine with the 530mm wide case?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 01:59 am
What do you guys think of this solid billet heatsink? I've been playing around in the CAD:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172535)

It will be flush with the top/bottom panels like the Takachi case:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172536)

The thick front/rear panels will overhang 5mm over the top/bottom panels and heatsinks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: srb on 9 Dec 2017, 02:18 am
I’m think I’m going to mill the heatsinks out of solid Kaiser 6061 T6 billet rather than buying the German extruded heatsinks. This will take the quality up another level yet. Also ensures uniform anodizing on all panels.

A heatsink's thermal heat dissipation is directly proportional to the surface area, in which case the machined version as you've depicted them would not be as efficient as the extruded finned version.

But perhaps these Class D modules don't really need that much heat dissipation anyway and the heatsinks are largely for aesthetic reasons?

Steve
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 02:22 am
Yeah it doesn’t need it anyways. Look at that Jeff Rowland a few posts back. There’s by far enough surface area on the case to cool the module. The little heatsink on the amp itself is even good enough for most applications. I think it looks nicer than a smooth side.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 9 Dec 2017, 03:55 am
If you want both you need to buy 3 additional harnesses of your choice. Then to upgrade the wire, just add 3 additional input wires of choice. By default they come with Mogami. These are full sets with amp connector, wire and input connectors soldered together. They're at the bottom of the list in my webshop. 

Are you fine with the 530mm wide case?

Yes, 3 more Neotech input wire looms is starting to add up to real money - but I get it.

The width is fine by me. It's the 5th dimension that concerns me.  :|
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 04:07 am
What’s the 5th dimension?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 04:29 am
Do you guys prefer this heat sink? Might be better.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172539)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 04:46 am
Yes, 3 more Neotech input wire looms is starting to add up to real money - but I get it.

The width is fine by me. It's the 5th dimension that concerns me.  :|

Well it's still cheaper than you can buy the raw parts for at somewhere like Parts Connexion:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/

 And that's without amp connector terminated, input connectors soldered with Furutech silver solder, and heat shrinked.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 9 Dec 2017, 04:50 am
I'm still trying to figure out what the fifth dimension is, is it money? :P

I like the squared off heatsink fins more than the v shaped ones.  I googled heatsink fins and never knew how many crazy extruded shapes there were.

like this one (https://i.pinimg.com/564x/44/01/dd/4401dd466a17afb2681335a2670d379e.jpg)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 04:51 am
I'm still trying to figure out what the fifth dimension is, is it money? :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPK7ZF6jfJE
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 04:54 am
I'm still trying to figure out what the fifth dimension is, is it money? :P

I like the squared off heatsink fins more than the v shaped ones.  I googled heatsink fins and never knew how many crazy extruded shapes there were.

like this one (https://i.pinimg.com/564x/44/01/dd/4401dd466a17afb2681335a2670d379e.jpg)

Yeah I think I'm settled on the square slots. Triangles don't go with squares as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 05:04 am
From the side the mid level case will look like this, but only with beefier, precision machined heatsink fins:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172542)

No screws on the front/back panels. On the premium case no screws on the top either. The top panel will be fastened from the inside.




Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 06:32 am
My 500 pieces of CMC binding posts shipped! Furutech stuff will be here next week as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 9 Dec 2017, 07:34 am
Maybe instead of up and down, put the heatsink on an angle. Seems like you’re the artist on a blank canvas.Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 07:45 am
Maybe instead of up and down, put the heatsink on an angle. Seems like you’re the artist on a blank canvas.Keep up the good work.

I'm not sure how symmetrical that would look. There's no other angles on the case. They wouldn't all be the same when cutting out of a 4x12' plate either. This way I can mill 3mm slots down the entire plate, then chop them up into 330X80mm pieces.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 9 Dec 2017, 09:03 am
let's not go crazy with the insane chassis shapes..  like the Nagra pyramid amplifiers

(https://www.soundandvision.com/images/nagra-pma.jpg)
(https://www.soundandvision.com/images/nagra-innards.jpg)

tower amplifiers can be cool though!
diy example
(http://www.bykoz.com/fotolar/P1010124.JPG)

here are blue circle vertical tower mono amps
(http://www.soundstage.com/pics/bc_bc2.jpg)

these msb 203 reference amplifiers remind me of garbage cans in a government building
(https://i.imgur.com/5v2SXoCl.png)

but for class d none of this is really needed..
I'm definitely down for one of the mid level upgraded cases..  it's very generous of you to offer it for the $200 with 10 year warranty and assembly service.. really it's a bargain.  I'll probably just get regular aluminum silver color
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 09:33 am
Well I didn’t want any of you earlybirds to feel like you missed out. I’m not sure who’s all going to take advantage of the offer or not. It will mean not getting your amp till the lot 4 guys get theirs. I’m going to find out lead time Monday when I submit all my DXF files to the machine shop.



Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 9 Dec 2017, 11:25 am
uncola,

Could you please consider resizing/ deleting your over-sized photos?  Your past several posts of late contain some ginormous photos that require extra time to download, etc..

thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 9 Dec 2017, 11:27 am
Sorry I’ll do thumbnails from now on.  I’m too used to forums that autoresize
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 9 Dec 2017, 12:02 pm
Maybe instead of up and down, put the heatsink on an angle. Seems like you’re the artist on a blank canvas.Keep up the good work.

edit:  sorry I know these are offtopic I just have the day off and am bored :P  I'll try not to post so many images
since the pcb is so small technically he could fit it in anything.  like one of these enclosures http://www.metaxas.com/ (http://www.metaxas.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/c1WLQ9Tl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yC2WNfWl.jpg)
(https://www.audiostream.com/images/51016ss5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Zl4uQ5Vl.png)
here's a video showing bead blasting surface finish.. I thought it was interesting 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCShLIKZ3rY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCShLIKZ3rY)

or for car guys a v8 or v12 engine
(http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/3/31810/reubenzehnv8c-21.jpg)
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52699379e4b01768fee82182/t/52d3abc2e4b0ddd8cf5c6a02/1389603779360/EAR-USA-EAR-V12.png?format=500w)

I don't use a rack so I'd be open to anything..  here's some more interesting ones
(https://i.imgur.com/xrMwMkFl.jpg)
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/pureaudio/7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4N2e23zl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QD7jj63l.jpg)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bunky on 9 Dec 2017, 12:13 pm
wow any color at all?  like black, red, purple, blue, silver, reflective chrome, cold?

the only other company I know that does that is headamp for the electrostatic headphone amps.. and maybe klaus bunge at odyssey will do custom colors

https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/5807586.jpg (https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/5807586.jpg)
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/gsx-mk2-18.jpg (https://parttimeaudiophile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/gsx-mk2-18.jpg)
https://www.themasterswitch.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/BHSE.jpg (https://www.themasterswitch.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/BHSE.jpg)
Klaus from Odyssey can do anodize in many colors. my Kismet in Khartago monos and Candela reference preamp all have beautiful chrome faceplates. chrome is hard to get perfect on aluminum and that makes it a expensive option.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 9 Dec 2017, 12:14 pm
I know, I have two kismet in khartago monoblocks with chrome faceplates sitting in my stack of unused amps :P  right under my firstwatt f7 :P
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 9 Dec 2017, 12:19 pm
One of the problems with the creative tabula rasa that modern digital design gives an industrial designer is that it's easier to become overwhelmed with too many choices (a corollary of the modern consumer's problem.) If one doesn't have good taste and restraint one's creations quickly become consigned to the dustbin of forgotten products that look like what they were - a fanciful whim. As a professional photographer I see the same phenomena in my creative domain, endless examples of exaggerated HDR enhanced images that grab your attention - for about one second.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 04:16 pm
This case needs to be classic, simple and timeless. It needs to look just as good 20-30 years from now as it does today. So no far out designs. Just pure, simple, classic, timeless quality. All precision machined locally with the finest machinery available, from the finest aluminum available.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 9 Dec 2017, 04:18 pm
Some of the cases posted in this thread look like 5th dimension cases. Should be interesting. My speakers love power. I use a DAC that converts files to DSD then use Roon via microrendu. I can room correct if need be so I'm pretty safe to produce a good frequency range. My hope is that this AS1200 plays well with my DAC, it should of course, but it's that last most important bit of musical prowess, call it the 5th dimension that I'm hopeful for. Sorry, I'm bad at describing sound as I've read too many audio magazines :lol:

My amplifier is completely surrounded by a finned heatsink. Almost all of our audio equipment is silver. My wife liked the headphone amp pictured in red. Not sure about the contrast between red and silver but it looked pretty sexy.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 9 Dec 2017, 04:19 pm
One of the problems with the creative tabula rasa that modern digital design gives an industrial designer is that it's easier to become overwhelmed with too many choices (a corollary of the modern consumer's problem.) If one doesn't have good taste and restraint one's creations quickly become consigned to the dustbin of forgotten products that look like what they were - a fanciful whim. As a professional photographer I see the same phenomena in my creative domain, endless examples of exaggerated HDR enhanced images that grab your attention - for about one second.

Completely agree  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 9 Dec 2017, 04:59 pm
Mike,

Here is another vote for the square fins.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 05:08 pm
Mike,

Here is another vote for the square fins.

Square fins are a done deal. Just need to figure out finish options now. I may just tumble in media then anodize for the heatsinks.

http://thefinishedpart.kramerindustriesonline.com/2010/02/aluminum-pre-anodize-finish.html?m=1

Anyways the shop machining the parts sends pallet loads to Altech every week for anodizing. Altech says they do the best work that comes into their shop. If you want to know who does the best machining, talk to the anodizer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 9 Dec 2017, 05:54 pm
Dammit - you are going to force me (mentally) to upgrade to one of these gorgeous cases.   :nono:   I am in group 1 - if I like your upgraded case I may decide to sell a kidney and upgrade all the wiring, etc. as well.  Will we be able to upgrade these options after you show us the upgraded case?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 9 Dec 2017, 06:14 pm
From the side the mid level case will look like this, but only with beefier, precision machined heatsink fins:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172542)

No screws on the front/back panels. On the premium case no screws on the top either. The top panel will be fastened from the inside.

That’s a nice case.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 9 Dec 2017, 06:15 pm
This case needs to be classic, simple and timeless. It needs to look just as good 20-30 years from now as it does today. So no far out designs. Just pure, simple, classic, timeless quality. All precision machined locally with the finest machinery available, from the finest aluminum available.

I guess that’s a no then on uncola’s skull shaped amp case.


I don’t think my wife would’ve approved of the Terminator head amplifier anyway.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 06:41 pm
Dammit - you are going to force me (mentally) to upgrade to one of these gorgeous cases.   :nono:   I am in group 1 - if I like your upgraded case I may decide to sell a kidney and upgrade all the wiring, etc. as well.  Will we be able to upgrade these options after you show us the upgraded case?

Well I’m placing my next Furutech order on Monday. If anyone wants to upgrade they will need to do it soon. I’ll order a few extra sets of everything, but that’s it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 06:47 pm
I guess that’s a no then on uncola’s skull shaped amp case.


I don’t think my wife would’ve approved of the Terminator head amplifier anyway.

No might have to pass on that one. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 9 Dec 2017, 07:15 pm
As much as I don't want to wait longer to get my amps, I think I'm going to have to up grade to the new cases. :duh:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 07:20 pm
By making the new cases so nice, I might have trouble selling off the Takachi cases! But I suppose there’s always folks who just want the cheapest option possible to get one of these amps.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 9 Dec 2017, 07:21 pm
OK added input and output wiring upgrade to my order in Group 1 for Glynn Wilson.
Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 07:24 pm
I decided I’m going to name the amp now. “Purepower” like my integrated, but just the amp version. No matter which amps replace these modules as technology advances, the name “Purepower” will always remain an accurate description of the amp. Just like the Klipschorns. In production since 1947, and the originals can still be updated to today’s standards.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 07:25 pm
OK added input and output wiring upgrade to my order in Group 1 for Glynn Wilson.
Thanks

Thanks!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 07:58 pm
For Lot 5 and beyond maybe I will just make 2 options only for cable/connectors.

Option 1 (Standard):

-Neutrik input connectors (XLR or RCA)
- Neotech Teflon coated OCC copper input cables
- Neotech Teflon coated OCC copper Speaker cables
- CMC gold plated pure copper binding posts
- Mil spec Teflon coated silver plated copper internal power cable

Option 2 (Premium):

-Furutech Input connectors (XLR, RCA Rhodium or gold plated)
- Zenwave Dave’s Teflon coated Neotech OCC silver/gold input cable
- Zenwave Dave’s Teflon coated Neotech OCC silver/gold Speaker cable
- Furutech Binding posts
- Furutech S55N internal power cable.

Both options available with either case version.

Option 1 will be $50 with either RCA or XLR.

 Option 2 will be $425 for RCA (Gold or Rhodium) and $450 for XLR.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 08:08 pm
That Mogami input cable is a PITA to strip and crimp compared to the Neotech. Takes triple the time. So better to just raise the quality standard rather than waste money on extra labor.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 9 Dec 2017, 08:49 pm
I have optimized your photo.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Icepower-1200AS-class-D-power-amplifier.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Icepower-1200AS-class-D-power-amplifier.jpg)

* Input CA cables on the left.

* A bank de capacitors between the transformer and the Output.

* Output speakers cables on the right.

I do not think it need Mogami star quad cables inside.

[Added] The input CA cables better at the bottom of the photo, further away from the transformer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 08:52 pm
I have optimized your photo.

(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Icepower-1200AS-class-D-power-amplifier.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Icepower-1200AS-class-D-power-amplifier.jpg)

* Input CA cables on the left.

* A bank de capacitors between the transformer and the Output.

* Output speakers cables on the right.

I do not think it need Mogami star quad cables inside.

No over a 7cm run, I don’t think the star quad advantage matters. Maybe over 7m+ it would though.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 9 Dec 2017, 08:52 pm
Just updated the binding posts. I put the original order # in the note in the cart to help any with knowing who they go to.

And just so I know, everybody in lot 1-4 automatically get an updated case?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 08:56 pm
Just updated the binding posts. I put the original order # in the note in the cart to help any with knowing who they go to.

And just so I know, everybody in lot 1-4 automatically get an updated case?

Thanks. Yes everything everyone orders gets tallied under each name automatically. So it makes it easy to see what I need to ship.

Yes lot 4-2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel will all get the new cases for no extra charge. For folks who ordered the assembly service in Lot 1-3, they can choose the new case or the Takachi. Up to them. For all who ordered kits, $200 to upgrade, but that includes assembly and 10 year warranty.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 9 Dec 2017, 09:01 pm
Thanks. Yes everything everyone orders gets tallied under each name automatically. So it makes it easy to see what I need to ship.

Yes lot 4-2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel will all get the new cases for no extra charge. For folks who ordered the assembly service in Lot 1-3, they can choose the new case or the Takachi. Up to them. For all who ordered kits, $200 to upgrade, but that includes assembly and 10 year warranty.

Awesome, thank you!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 9 Dec 2017, 09:33 pm
Mike,
I'm lot 2 or 3.
How and when will we go about upgrading our cases?
Thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 09:38 pm
I’m trying my best to get at least 1 of each case milled before Lot 1-3 Takachi cases arrive. This way I can show you high resolution photo comparisons between all of the parts consisting of each case. This will help everyone make an informed decision on whether or not it will be worth it to upgrade or not.

Stay tuned. I’ll know more early next week. I’m also going to do a tour of the machine shop and anodizing shop next week. I’ll share pictures of the cool machines, and finished products made from these guys.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: TomS on 9 Dec 2017, 09:44 pm
Is there an option for 4 channels, 1 case, maybe a 6x version less 2 modules?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 09:46 pm
Is there an option for 4 channels, 1 case, maybe a 6x version less 2 modules?

No I’m not going to offer that option. It’s better to order 2x- 2 channel amps and locate them closer to each speaker if you want 4 channels.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 9 Dec 2017, 11:08 pm
Not to be too rapacious (OK, I used a Thesaurus), I am ordering this amp for fun, planning on possibly having to sell it if it fails to beat my Shindo Montille on my 95 dB speakers.  Will the ten year warranty on the assembled unit be transferable?  If so, the $200 seems like a bargain.  Shoot, even if not the $200 is cheap for assembly and case upgrade.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 11:11 pm
I highly doubt you’ll want to sell it, but yes the warranty is transferable. And if the amp ever gets upgraded one day the 10 year warranty period starts at the beginning again. This makes it possible to:

1: Always have the best amp available
2: Always be covered by warranty.
3: Pay very little for upgrades as it will only be a low cost module replacement. Rather than an entire amplifier.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 9 Dec 2017, 11:53 pm
I finally figured out how to add options in my webshop under the amp. This will make it very easy once I add my case options and 2 connector/cable options. I'll just need to make a page explaining the details of the options.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 05:05 am
Ok made my webshop foolproof now:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 05:53 am
I've been thinking. Maybe starting with lot 5 I'll take Raddar's advice from a few pages back and just make 2 amp versions. Standard and premium. The standard version will come with the standard case, connectors and cables. The premium version will come with premium case, connectors and cables. I'll eliminate the option to choose the cables and connectors, other than RCA or XLR. After all my standard case, connectors and cables will still be better than the best from anyone else already anyways. And the premium version will better some 6 figure amps in the premium options. However I will still offer a custom color option for both versions. And folks who buy either version will be welcome to buy the premium additional input harnesses if they want.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 10 Dec 2017, 07:02 am
I've been thinking. Maybe starting with lot 5 I'll take Raddar's advice from a few pages back and just make 2 amp versions. Standard and premium. The standard version will come with the standard case, connectors and cables. The premium version will come with premium case, connectors and cables. I'll eliminate the option to choose the cables and connectors, other than RCA or XLR. After all my standard case, connectors and cables will still be better than the best from anyone else already anyways. And the premium version will better some 6 figure amps in the premium options. However I will still offer a custom color option for both versions. And folks who buy either version will be welcome to buy the premium additional input harnesses if they want.

This is better.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 07:06 am
This is better.

Yeah and the nicer case won't just represent visual appeal only like many $10000 amps with class D modules and 20 cents worth of Chinese surplus cable inside. It will be equipped with Bugatti level cables and connectors as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 08:13 am
I completely revamped the webshop. Way better now:

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 10 Dec 2017, 08:22 am
Hey  Mike, your brain must be going a mile a minute. Haha. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 08:25 am
Hey  Mike, your brain must be going a mile a minute. Haha. Keep up the good work.

Ha ha well that webshop was a mess. I think it's finally easy to understand.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 10 Dec 2017, 04:22 pm
Mike, what's the cost of the Furutech FT-807G binding posts? I'm thinking of making 2 channels with a higher upgrade level on my 6 channel amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: drmike on 10 Dec 2017, 04:24 pm
not sure how to upgrade kit with tackachi case to assembled and better case.
thanks,
drmike
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 04:43 pm
Mike, what's the cost of the Furutech FT-807G binding posts? I'm thinking of making 2 channels with a higher upgrade level on my 6 channel amp.

$180
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 04:43 pm
not sure how to upgrade kit with tackachi case to assembled and better case.
thanks,
drmike

I don’t have that option open yet.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 10 Dec 2017, 05:01 pm
$180

That's for a pair?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 05:03 pm
That's for a pair?

That’s for a full set of 4 Binding posts. Same thing you get here for $198:

https://suncoastaudio.com/product/ft-807g/

And here:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/81086.html
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 05:40 pm
Starting with Lot 5 I’m no longer going to have different lots for the different amp types. 2 channel, and 6 channel in standard or premium will be 24 unit lots. I only had that limitation in the past because Takachi has very strict rules that every case must be identical. Now I’ll have all the machined parts for all configurations sitting there waiting for anodizing anyways. So it will be much better.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 08:56 pm
Here’s an example of my input harnesses with Neutrik DLX and Neotech copper cable:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172587)

When you order additional input sets you get an assembly like this.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 09:06 pm
Keep in mind for folks that want to source their connectors/cables elsewhere it’s not a problem. Just choose the no cable/connector option in the webshop.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 10 Dec 2017, 10:34 pm
For those with the DIY kits, or multiple sets of input connectors. Please don't pull on the cables to remove the amp connector from the socket. And don't twist them or anything like that. The Neotech cable is solid core (both copper and silver/gold), and the teflon insulation is slippery. They are crimped on very good, but excessive force could pull the cables out of the connectors because the strain relief crimp is on the slippery teflon. Always grab the connector itself to remove.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 03:58 am
Can anyone guess what the most popular premium upgrade option was for the 1st 4 lots?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 11 Dec 2017, 04:10 am
Furutech RCA rhodium plate?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 04:14 am
Furutech RCA rhodium plate?


No actually the gold was quite a bit more popular than the Rhodium. But neither one.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 11 Dec 2017, 04:22 am
Furutech binding post.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 04:24 am
The winner by a long shot was the Neotech Silver/gold input cable. 2nd place is the Neotech silver/gold speaker cable. 3rd is the Furutech N55S power cable. 4th is the Furutech binding posts. 5th is the Furutech XLR's. The Furutech gold RCA's sold double what the Rhodium did.

I'm thinking my Purepower Premium will do very well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: david45 on 11 Dec 2017, 04:25 am
deleted
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 11 Dec 2017, 04:28 am
The Neotech UP-OCC Silver/Gold Analog input and speaker cable was the first upgrade that caught my eye so I'm going to guess that.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 04:29 am
The Neotech UP-OCC Silver/Gold Analog input and speaker cable was the first upgrade that caught my eye so I'm going to guess that.

Yeah for only $15 more than copper, since it uses the same silver/gold OCC blend as $25000 Siltech interconnects use, it's almost a no brainer. Especially if you use premium cable outside of the box.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 04:46 am
For the silver/gold speaker cable I need to use 10 runs of 26 gauge wire per leg. 3 inches each. So even though the speaker cables are only 3" long, I need 10 ft of cable per 2 channel amp.

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/neotech-26-gauge-occ-silvergold-alloy/
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 06:42 am
I have my heatsink design dialed in:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172622)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 07:27 am
Purepower premium rear panel:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172623)

Inside of the panels there's pockets milled for the connectors so they sit flush on the rear panel.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172624)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 07:52 am
Uncola's rear panel


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172625)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 11 Dec 2017, 07:57 am
hehe thanks.  medium tier back panel looks good!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 08:01 am
hehe thanks.  medium tier back panel looks good!

That was actually the premium with 1/2" thick front/rear panels. Here's the standard with 1/4" panel:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172626)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172627)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 09:03 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172628)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 11 Dec 2017, 09:05 am
Maybe:

* Purepower

and

* Purepower SE

* Purepower Spetial Edition  [too long]
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 09:06 am
Maybe:

* Purepower

and

* Purepower SE

* Purepower Spetial Edition  [too long]

I thought maybe people can just tell by the panel thickness and connectors.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 11 Dec 2017, 09:11 am
Maybe the front text like mine DCBx4 Maty Edition

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-front.jpg
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 09:12 am
Maybe the front text like mine DCBx4 Maty Edition

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/ATL-Hi-Fi-DC-Blocker-x4-ME-front.jpg

I've been using this font on all my stuff
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 09:18 am
Or I could have no fill in the fonts. Just engraved:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172629)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: THROWBACK on 11 Dec 2017, 02:08 pm
Ooh! I LIKE the no-fill version.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: usp1 on 11 Dec 2017, 02:50 pm
Hi Mike,

I have not ordered yet but I am seriously considering ordering a two-channel version. One of the advantages of the class-d is the low weight (especially for those of us with puny muscles who are getting older) and I was wondering if adding bulk with heavy front and rear plates would make it too heavy. Also, although I am not a graphic designer, I thought a more elegant logo would make it look so much better. I made a quick sketch that I thought might be more attractive. Just a suggestion.



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172633)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: srb on 11 Dec 2017, 02:52 pm
Maybe the front text like mine DCBx4 Maty Edition

Italics are good for emphasizing a word in sentence text, but for most labeling it cheapens the look.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Carl V on 11 Dec 2017, 02:53 pm
I thought maybe people can just tell by the panel thickness and connectors.

Perhaps, but marketing, signage & labeling is important. So, SE either on from or rear
would be beneficial to one & all.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 11 Dec 2017, 03:28 pm
Perhaps, but marketing, signage & labeling is important. So, SE either on from or rear
would be beneficial to one & all.
I agree SE on the front panel :thumb:  PUREPOWER and PUREPOWER SE. I don't think you need to add AMPLIFIER
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 03:34 pm
Hi Mike,

I have not ordered yet but I am seriously considering ordering a two-channel version. One of the advantages of the class-d is the low weight (especially for those of us with puny muscles who are getting older) and I was wondering if adding bulk with heavy front and rear plates would make it too heavy. Also, although I am not a graphic designer, I thought a more elegant logo would make it look so much better. I made a quick sketch that I thought might be more attractive. Just a suggestion.

 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172633)

Well the standard version will have half the chassis weight. And the Takachi version half the weight of the standard version. If people don’t like the logo, I don’t need to put it on their case.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 03:37 pm
Okay I’ll add SE and remove amplifier. I guess people should already understand it’s an amplifier.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 03:48 pm
The standard version will have laser etched text. The SE will have 1mm deep machined text. People who order the SE can choose if they want the text color filled or not.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 11 Dec 2017, 04:32 pm
Well the standard version will have half the chassis weight. And the Takachi version half the weight of the standard version. If people don’t like the logo, I don’t need to put it on their case.

To further go with the idea, I prefer the solid filled-up A is just beside the letter M, as like 'MA'. Sorry can't resist the temptation to talk about graphic design.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 04:49 pm
Okay I figured out lot 5 and beyond pricing using the new cases. Standard includes standard case, and all standard level cables/connectors. SE includes premium case and all premium cables/connectors. Only options will be color, text, XLR, RCA (gold or Rhodium in SE).

Standard 2 channel: $999
SE 2 channel: $1399
Standard 6 channel: $2299
SE 6 channel: $3499


I have 1 standard 2 channel left in lot 4 for $949. And 1 standard 6 channel left for $2149.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 05:01 pm
To further go with the idea, I prefer the solid filled-up A is just beside the letter M, as like 'MA'. Sorry can't resist the temptation to talk about graphic design.

Maybe 1 day I'll hire a professional logo designer for $50000. But the catch is I'll have to raise the prices to pay him. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 05:04 pm
Any left over traded in Takachi case amps will be available in standard trim only and for $899 for silver, $939 for black.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 05:21 pm
Anyone in lot 1-4 2 channel and lot 1-6 channel can upgrade to the SE versions by simply paying the difference between what they already paid me, and the SE prices. However I'm still offering the $200 trade up price to the standard case for all the kit buyers.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 11 Dec 2017, 05:31 pm
Mike,

Is it possible for the the web shop to offer an opt out for the external power cord?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 05:34 pm
Mike,

Is it possible for the the web shop to offer an opt out for the external power cord?

Yeah I was thinking about adding a Furutech S55N based power cable option. I can also make an option for $5 power cable and no power cable.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 11 Dec 2017, 06:35 pm
Maybe 1 day I'll hire a professional logo designer for $50000. But the catch is I'll have to raise the prices to pay him. :)

FWIW, I think your logo looks just fine. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 06:42 pm
FWIW, I think your logo looks just fine.

Not everyone is going to like every logo. I know it could be better, but best I can do for folks who don't like it is leave it off their amp.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 07:02 pm
Lot 4-2 channel amps are officially sold out! I'll open lot 5 when I have at least 1 of each case type built of the new cases to show everyone.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 11 Dec 2017, 07:05 pm
Yes it’s the HY-88-33-33: “SS” is silver and “BB” is black.

http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/c16/HYR_02.pdf

What feet are you putting on the black Takachi chassis?

gab
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 07:09 pm
What feet are you putting on the black Takachi chassis?

gab

AFM39-18S

http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/c16-17/2016-265-266.pdf
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 11 Dec 2017, 08:14 pm
Anyone in lot 1-4 2 channel and lot 1-6 channel can upgrade to the SE versions by simply paying the difference between what they already paid me, and the SE prices. However I'm still offering the $200 trade up price to the standard case for all the kit buyers.

Is there a comparison chart somewhere that shows what the differences and case options are?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 08:17 pm
I’ll be updating my website soon. For now all the info is in the thread if you take a bit of time to catch up.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 11 Dec 2017, 08:24 pm
When will you know more about the furutech power cord?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 11 Dec 2017, 08:25 pm
When will you know more about the furutech power cord?

Before any amps ship.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 11 Dec 2017, 08:32 pm
For those of us still hanging w/ the Takachi case in the 2 channel DIY kit  :lol: ...

Overall dimensions for Takachi HY-88-33-33 case incl. AFM39-18S feet: 13" x 13" x 4-3/16" h (330 mm x 330 mm x 88 mm + 18 mm feet). Feet dia.: 1-1/2" (39 mm)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Oscillate on 12 Dec 2017, 02:08 am
"...I was thinking about adding a Furutech S55N based power cable option.'

Yes please ...a 6 ft version option with the NEMA 5-15 plug would be practical
too, thanks.

"Regarding the 6 channel amp, the IEC inlet will be the 20A IEC-C19 type.
I can include either a cable with the C19 IEC end and standard NEMA 5-15
plug end like this:"

My power cords are the original Volex 17604 & 17605 powercords with the
C13 female plug (standard 386E IEC female plug?). I bought about 10 of
them in 2005 (before they changed them to the lesser quality versions) after
reading this short essay by Occam...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15325.0

They are the only aftermarket powercords I own, or have ever used with my
audio equipment ...and the female end connectors on them won't mate with
your intended use of of a C19 IEC (which makes sense for you to do) ...and
the 20 amp plug male end won't won't mate with my wall outlets.

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 02:13 am
"...I was thinking about adding a Furutech S55N based power cable option.'

Yes please ...a 6 ft version option with the NEMA 5-15 plug would be practical
too, thanks.

"Regarding the 6 channel amp, the IEC inlet will be the 20A IEC-C19 type.
I can include either a cable with the C19 IEC end and standard NEMA 5-15
plug end like this:"

My power cords are the original Volex 17604 & 17605 powercords with the
C13 female plug (standard 386E IEC female plug?). I bought about 10 of
them in 2005 (before they changed them to the lesser quality versions) after
reading this short essay by Occam...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15325.0

They are the only aftermarket powercords I own, or have ever used with my
audio equipment ...and the female end connectors on them won't mate with
your intended use of of a C19 IEC (which makes sense for you to do) ...and
the 20 amp plug male end won't won't mate with my wall outlets.

I will be shipping the 6 channel amps with a cheap power cable that will work. Regarding premium Furutech S55N based cable, based on the popularity of that cable used internally, it might make sense to add an external version as an amp option as well. For both 2 and 6 channel.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 12 Dec 2017, 02:28 am
Hi Mike,

The thread is getting more exciting everyday. When could we see your own section at Audiocircle?  8)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 02:48 am
Hi Mike,

The thread is getting more exciting everyday. When could we see your own section at Audiocircle?  8)

That's up to JohnR. I already submitted my request.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 12 Dec 2017, 02:57 am
I am lostnon the case upgrade. Are there pictures yet for the 2 channel?   I would consider it if I could see it beforehand.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 03:04 am
I am lostnon the case upgrade. Are there pictures yet for the 2 channel?   I would consider it if I could see it beforehand.

I won't be opening up the option to upgrade until I have pictures of the products to share. This is a new idea. I can't produce 2 new amps from scratch out of solid Kaiser aluminum plate sitting at some warehouse within 3-4 business days.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 12 Dec 2017, 04:24 am
No matter how long the delay is I want that fancy case.

(https://i.imgur.com/1m1pVBOm.jpg)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: debjit.g on 12 Dec 2017, 08:58 am
are the premium cases just for the looks or is there a sonic benefit to it as well ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 09:04 am
Well it will be much more isolated from vibrations. Stillpoints will probably work better as there’s more weight. Also keep in mind there’s $500 worth of cable/connector upgrades, along with a case with double the aluminum content for only a $400 premium over the standard Purepower. Order the standard without cables/connectors ($50 discount) and outfit yourself with my premium options sourced elsewhere,  and you’ll discover it will cost you more.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 10:00 am
I have 2 options lined up to do the aluminum pre-finishing before anodizing. I’m heading to Vancouver tomorrow to compare their quality of work.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 06:54 pm
So let's take a vote. What would you guys prefer. A bright shiny finish, or a smooth matte finish like an Apple Iphone/macbook? There's a few different processes that are best for achieving the desired finish. The matte finish is achieved by media tumbling followed by etching prior to anodizing. Polished finish is obtained by electropolishing prior to anodizing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 06:58 pm
If you compare the finish of these 2 screws the one on the left represents the matte finish. The one on the right represents the electropolished finish:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172668)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 12 Dec 2017, 06:59 pm
Smooth matte finish is my preference. :)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: david45 on 12 Dec 2017, 07:05 pm
Matte finish :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 12 Dec 2017, 07:11 pm
Matte finish :thumb:
Plus 2 :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 12 Dec 2017, 07:12 pm
Matte finish
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 12 Dec 2017, 07:17 pm
I like the shiny electropolished one
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 07:29 pm
I think what I’ll do is have all panels finished in matte. Then if anyone wants the polished look, then it will be an extra charge and longer lead time. In order to keep the lead time short I must have all parts pre-finished and waiting for the anodizer prior to opening up the lots.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 12 Dec 2017, 07:29 pm
Matte finish!!!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 12 Dec 2017, 07:33 pm
Matte.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 12 Dec 2017, 07:44 pm
Matte finish
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sfox7076 on 12 Dec 2017, 07:45 pm
Matte.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mikeeastman on 12 Dec 2017, 08:19 pm
Matte.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 12 Dec 2017, 08:20 pm
matte
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 12 Dec 2017, 08:57 pm
Matte - Is there any way to use phillips screws instead of torx for the case?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Oscillate on 12 Dec 2017, 09:10 pm
Smooth matte finish.

Regarding the Torx head case screws; as long as the 'well' is deep seated
into the top of the screw and not so shallow that it shears and strips out
the well the first time you try to remove a screw :( ...I'm good with that.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MichaelHiFi on 12 Dec 2017, 09:14 pm
Combination of matte & shiny.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 12 Dec 2017, 09:14 pm
The matte finish gets my vote. Also wanted to mention I thought your final heat sink fin design with rounded edges was the best looking solution as well. I prefer torx screws because they have greater ability to transfer torque compared to a phillips head of the same diameter screw.  Also way less likely for the driver to slip out of the torx screw head and scratch surrounding casework. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 12 Dec 2017, 09:20 pm
I prefer torx screws because they have greater ability to transfer torque compared to a phillips head of the same diameter screw.  Also way less likely for the driver to slip out of the torx screw head and scratch surrounding casework.
Amen!  :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 12 Dec 2017, 09:29 pm
How tight do you need those screws to be? You guys must be really hard on your gear.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 12 Dec 2017, 09:36 pm
The matte finish gets my vote. Also wanted to mention I thought your final heat sink fin design with rounded edges was the best looking solution as well. I prefer torx screws because they have greater ability to transfer torque compared to a phillips head of the same diameter screw.  Also way less likely for the driver to slip out of the torx screw head and scratch surrounding casework.

Yes to all of this! :green:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 10:06 pm
Matte - Is there any way to use phillips screws instead of torx for the case?

Torx heads are way nicer. You can buy a T9 Torx screwdriver bit at any hardware store for 50 cents. I’m using all top grade stainless steel screws. No soft garbage from China.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 12 Dec 2017, 10:09 pm
The matte finish gets my vote. Also wanted to mention I thought your final heat sink fin design with rounded edges was the best looking solution as well. I prefer torx screws because they have greater ability to transfer torque compared to a phillips head of the same diameter screw.  Also way less likely for the driver to slip out of the torx screw head and scratch surrounding casework.

The heatsink isn’t actually rounded. There’s 45 reg chamfers on each side of every fin. It will be even nicer in real life.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: sandbagger on 12 Dec 2017, 10:33 pm
I like the shiny and the Torx, I hate Phillips screws.

With that said I am in batch 4 and probably just going to take the stock case but..... let me see a finished custom case before I make a decision 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 13 Dec 2017, 01:03 am
Rounded edges, matte, torx.  I have decided to step up and spend the $200 so please give us time to order this upgrade before shipping group 1.  Even if it delays the shipping.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Dec 2017, 02:04 am
No rounded edges guys. Chamfered edges. All sharp edges are chamfered. Just like this Jeff Rowland amp:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172683)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Dec 2017, 08:05 pm
What do you guys think about this finish?


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172694)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: srb on 13 Dec 2017, 08:16 pm
What do you guys think about this finish?

Looks to me like a little finer grit of glass beads (or whatever was used) is needed.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rwolters on 13 Dec 2017, 08:18 pm
Mike,
No, I don’t care for that. I think the finish you go with should look similar to other silver or black components that the amp is likely to share a rack with.
Bob
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 13 Dec 2017, 08:20 pm
In the photo it looks a bit coarse.  If that sample's surface granularity was equivalent to 80 grit corundum blast finish, I'd shoot for a 120-150 grit equivalent surface. Like the previous poster mentioned, something more in line with other smoother finishes common in other gear.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jtsnead on 13 Dec 2017, 08:35 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rwolters on 13 Dec 2017, 08:41 pm
To add clarification to my prior comment, many other products have a brushed finish. Alongside products like that, a shot-peened look would seem a little out of place.
Bob
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 13 Dec 2017, 08:46 pm
The bolt looks good, the piece you're holding doesn't.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 13 Dec 2017, 08:48 pm
I'm wondering if the pic used a flash, and maybe if the texture/granularity of the finish is accentuated due to that and/or other aspects of the photography. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 13 Dec 2017, 09:00 pm
Mike,
No, I don’t care for that. I think the finish you go with should look similar to other silver or black components that the amp is likely to share a rack with.
Bob


Exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 13 Dec 2017, 09:13 pm
I had something simple in mind like the face of this.



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172701)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Dec 2017, 09:22 pm
That was just a sandblasted piece they had there. I think what I’m going to do is a fine brushed finish like Takachi on the front/back/top/bottom panels. Then a very fine bead blasted matte finish on the heatsinks.

Was just at the anodizer. Pretty cool operation.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172702)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172703)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172704)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172705)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172706)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172707)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172708)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172709)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Dec 2017, 09:23 pm
I'm wondering if the pic used a flash, and maybe if the texture/granularity of the finish is accentuated due to that and/or other aspects of the photography.

Yes it wasn’t as bad as it looked in the photo with the naked eye. But still too coarse.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 13 Dec 2017, 09:26 pm
Fine brush finish would be great.

That anodizer shop looks like they could do quite a bit at a time. Very cool.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 13 Dec 2017, 09:30 pm
Brushed does look sharp
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Dec 2017, 09:35 pm
There’s also a vapor blaster in town. The anodizer said their finish is very good and consistent. Could be an option for the heatsinks.

 https://youtu.be/KqHcSVLB9fw
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 13 Dec 2017, 09:40 pm
There’s also a vapor blaster in town. The anodizer said their finish is very good and consistent. Could be an option for the heatsinks.

 https://youtu.be/KqHcSVLB9fw

I like that vapor blast look myself.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 13 Dec 2017, 10:04 pm
I'll take the one that sounds good.  :green:

Just kidding Mike, rock on...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 13 Dec 2017, 10:21 pm
That vapor looks good, but I'll just trust you on this.  You are seeing them in person, not thru a video screen.  Whichever one will make all my friends green with envy is the one I want. At last RMAF I swooned a bit over the Jeff Rowland stuff - a faceplate like his would be nice (he said, drooling).
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 13 Dec 2017, 11:38 pm
I think vapor blast on the heatsinks and fine media sand or bead blast on the rest of the case could be a nice look. Doing all the casework in vapor blasting could be too much of a good thing IMO.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 13 Dec 2017, 11:51 pm
The problem with bead blasting the entire case is it’s prone to human error. 100% perfect consistency across every sq inch of each panel may not be possible. For brushing they use a very high tech automated drum sander. This will insure 100% uniformity from panel to panel. Then on the heatsinks, the anodizer’s are saying the vapor blasted pieces they seen were far more uniform than anything they ever seen bead blasted. So at this point I’m thinking brushed, combined with vapor blasting may be the ultimate solution.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 13 Dec 2017, 11:59 pm
So at this point I’m thinking brushed, combined with vapor blasting may be the ultimate solution.

Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 12:04 am
Very good comparison of sandblasted vs vapor blasted:

https://youtu.be/O-rSJHjaWoE
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 14 Dec 2017, 12:08 am
I have been enjoying the 60 pages of posts and the evolution of the amp. When I decided to order mine, I was thinking it would be a killer amp in a nice but unassuming case. Now it sounds like it's turning into the audio jewelry we were all joking about what this amp was not going to be. I agree with good cabling, good connectors, solid feet , etc  but I would be happy with a solid Takachi enclosure that does not ring or flex.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 12:13 am
I have been enjoying the 60 pages of posts and the evolution of the amp. When I decided to order mine, I was thinking it would be a killer amp in a nice but unassuming case. Now it sounds like it's turning into the audio jewelry we were all joking about what this amp was not going to be. I agree with good cabling, good connectors, solid feet , etc  but I would be happy with a solid Takachi enclosure that does not ring or flex.

You’re more than welcome to stick with the Takachi enclosure. They are great value for the money. But at the end of the day the top/bottom panels are only 2mm thick, and front/back panels are only 3mm thick. Also the aluminum is quite soft. Some folks appreciate having the option of moving to a higher end case. If audiophiles didn’t like high end cases, then Jeff Rowland surely wouldn’t be able to sell a Pascal all in 1 amplifier for $8000. Now if I was charging $8000 for this amp you may have a case. But my standard amp using this high end case is only going to be $999.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 14 Dec 2017, 12:41 am
I thought the vapor blast in the video looked like more for industrial applications where pretty was not as important as protection.  Maybe it was just the video quality.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 12:44 am
I thought the vapor blast in the video looked like more for industrial applications where pretty was not as important as protection.  Maybe it was just the video quality.

Keep in mind that’s a rough sand casted piece. Not the same as machined billet aluminum. Everyone is saying it produces a better and more consistent finish than dry blasting techniques. But of course I’m not going to get 100’s of heatsinks done without checking the results out for myself first. I’m not going to do it if it’s going to give me an inferior result.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 14 Dec 2017, 01:16 am
The problem with bead blasting the entire case is it’s prone to human error. 100% perfect consistency across every sq inch of each panel may not be possible. For brushing they use a very high tech automated drum sander. This will insure 100% uniformity from panel to panel. Then on the heatsinks, the anodizer’s are saying the vapor blasted pieces they seen were far more uniform than anything they ever seen bead blasted. So at this point I’m thinking brushed, combined with vapor blasting may be the ultimate solution.

Quite right. I've done a lot of blast finishing myself over the years. I didn't know if these companies you deal with might have moved into robotically controlled blasting that would eliminate human variability. Seems like the automotive industry does everything that involves a spray process with robots now. Automation is the only way to consistently finish panel after panel the same way.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 01:25 am
Quite right. I've done a lot of blast finishing myself over the years. I didn't know if these companies you deal with might have moved into robotically controlled blasting that would eliminate human variability. Seems like the automotive industry does everything that involves a spray process with robots now. Automation is the only way to consistently finish panel after panel the same way.

No they don’t have robotic bead blasters. The heatsinks have slots that will have marks on them from the machining. This is why they need a pre-finishing stage after the machining. To remove the tooling marks.  If I was producing $1000000+ worth of heat sinks I could probably have an automated machine custom setup for these particular parts.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 14 Dec 2017, 01:49 am
You are turning the upgraded case into such a nice piece, if possible I would like to cancel my request for black and apply that $ to the upgrade case cost.
Glynn Wilson - group 1
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 02:17 am
Sorry the upgrade is $200 no matter what color of Takachi case you’re upgrading from was. I’m already losing money by offering this discounted upgrade offer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ksbruce on 14 Dec 2017, 03:04 am
Your circle is open! :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 14 Dec 2017, 03:09 am
Your circle is open! :thumb:

 :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 14 Dec 2017, 03:49 am
I'm cool with the $200 even though my original order was black.  It's still a bargain.  I just want to make sure I no longer get a black one.  the metal finishes you are showing us really float my boat.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 14 Dec 2017, 07:51 pm
Looking at glynnw's post above, he's says he doesn't want a black case because he like the metal finishes you're considering.

I was under the impression that these new finishes could be anodized to black or any other available color. Do we need to chose between color (other than silver) and the new finishes?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 08:00 pm
I think he was saying this because the finish will be so nice he wants to see it in it’s natural color.

Just left the vapor blasters. I’m very happy with the finish result. The heatsinks are going to look outstanding with this vapor blasting done to them.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172767)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 14 Dec 2017, 08:03 pm
That is very nice. :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 14 Dec 2017, 08:08 pm
Yeah and he only blasted it for like 30 seconds. My heat sinks are going to be pretty much flawless from the machine shop. Because they’re going to do a final finishing pass all in 1 direction to ensure no chatter or tooling marks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 14 Dec 2017, 08:17 pm
Your amplifier SE will end up being exposed in the MoMA museum  :D
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 14 Dec 2017, 11:32 pm
That finish looks great. Much better than the cylinder heads in the video link you posted earlier :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Dec 2017, 12:53 am
That finish looks great. Much better than the cylinder heads in the video link you posted earlier :lol:

I agree.  What exactly is the vapor blasting process?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: srb on 15 Dec 2017, 01:10 am
What exactly is the vapor blasting process?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=vapor+blasting+process
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Dec 2017, 01:20 am
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=vapor+blasting+process

Thanks Steve.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: srb on 15 Dec 2017, 01:22 am
Thanks Steve.

 ;)  sorry, couldn't resist!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Dec 2017, 01:39 am
Am I confused or is the only option for black the Takachi?  Every blessed piece of electronics I own is black.  And as nice as the vapor blasting looks by itself, in my racks it would be very out of place.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 15 Dec 2017, 01:51 am
don I posted this video along with some metaxis and sins amp photos.. this is manual bead blasting but I assume vapor blasting is pretty much the same?  I could be wrong though! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCShLIKZ3rY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCShLIKZ3rY)

oh I found a video of vapor blasting, it looks a little different..
"Vapor blasting motorcycle parts is the easiest way to clean up 35 years of abuse and use on these vintage motorcycles. No more hand scrubbing for days or dry bead blasting your parts to infinity damaging every surface and destroying your parts forever. Blast ahead of your competition by using the next evolution in media blasting"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ojcEfyzMY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ojcEfyzMY)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Dec 2017, 02:10 am
Am I confused or is the only option for black the Takachi?  Every blessed piece of electronics I own is black.  And as nice as the vapor blasting looks by itself, in my racks it would be very out of place.

Like I mentioned earlier, my standard color options will be silver and black. However I can also have them anodized in any color.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Dec 2017, 02:46 am
Like I mentioned earlier, my standard color options will be silver and black. However I can also have them anodized in any color.

I am confused how the black option fits in with vapor blasting which is essentially polishing bare aluminum.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Dec 2017, 02:48 am
I am confused how the black option fits in with vapor blasting which is essentially polishing bare aluminum.

The vapor blasting is just a pre-finishing stage. They can be anodized to any color after the vapor blasting.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Dec 2017, 02:56 am
The vapor blasting is just a pre-finishing stage. They can be anodized to any color after the vapor blasting.

Awesome.  Thanks for the clarification. The blasted finish looked so good I mistook it for a finished product.  Now I realize that unprotected aluminum won't stay shiny.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Dec 2017, 05:47 am
Cmc’s are here!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172775)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172776)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 15 Dec 2017, 06:57 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172777)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 15 Dec 2017, 11:07 am
Mike, I know things are in flux and subject to change depending on suppliers and subcontractors. That said, do you anticipate having prototypes of mid and upper tier cases finished and photographed before you'd be ready to ship assembled lot 1-3 amps with base level Takachi cases? You mentioned that one could always send back the amps for a case swap but I'd rather see all options for consideration the first time around.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Dec 2017, 05:29 pm
I’m hoping to have 1 of each of the standard and SE cases milled before Christmas. Definitely won’t be anodized as well, but should be enough to show you guys that my new cases are obviously much better than the Takachi cases.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Dec 2017, 05:43 pm
Awesome.  Thanks for the clarification. The blasted finish looked so good I mistook it for a finished product.  Now I realize that unprotected aluminum won't stay shiny.

No matter which color is chosen you must anodize. For the silver cases they will be clear anodized.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 15 Dec 2017, 09:40 pm
So the $200 case upgrade includes etching? Or is that on top of the cost of the case? I don't think that was clearly stated. I recall somewhere in the thread about a surcharge for etching on the Takachi case. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 15 Dec 2017, 09:47 pm
So the $200 case upgrade includes etching? Or is that on top of the cost of the case? I don't think that was clearly stated. I recall somewhere in the thread about a surcharge for etching on the Takachi case.

Etching will be included on all standard cases. Engraving will be included on all SE cases. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 15 Dec 2017, 10:52 pm
No doubt you're already planning something like this Mike, but because the case options seem to be creating the most questions, having a simple table that lays out the different options and costs(with pictures eventually) would be great,  plus you could list which options are already included for those who bought assembled kits, etc.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 15 Dec 2017, 11:09 pm
No doubt you're already planning something like this Mike, but because the case options seem to be creating the most questions, having a simple table that lays out the different options and costs(with pictures eventually) would be great,  plus you could list which options are already included for those who bought assembled kits, etc.

What he said but on a new thread.  :lol:  Maybe somewhat premature but certainly something to consider once case pictures are available.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: TomS on 15 Dec 2017, 11:18 pm
Since it seems like most of the dust has settled, just update the first post in the thread with all the decisions that have been made - dimensions, 2 versions, cases, finish, marking, etc.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: MttBsh on 15 Dec 2017, 11:54 pm
Since it seems like most of the dust has settled, just update the first post in the thread with all the decisions that have been made - dimensions, 2 versions, cases, finish, marking, etc.

I was thinking the table could be maintained on the Minerva Audio website
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 16 Dec 2017, 12:10 am
My plan is to wait till the new cases are done. Then before I open Lot 5 I’ll make a new “Purepower”  thread describing the new amps, and all options in detail. I’ll be able to include pictures of the finished products as well.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 16 Dec 2017, 04:30 am
My plan is to wait till the new cases are done. Then before I open Lot 5 I’ll make a new “Purepower”  thread describing the new amps, and all options in detail. I’ll be able to include pictures of the finished products as well.

Been away for a couple of weeks and just caught up reading this thread. WOW!  Things have moved fast.  I'm excited
to see the finished upgrade cases.  So far the samples look great (and I agree on the consensus of finish, by the way). Personally leaning towards the SE edition because I like the idea of isolation from stray signals that the thick case will offer. 

Anyhow, this is so fun to be a part of!  :banana piano:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Merckx1 on 17 Dec 2017, 03:25 pm
Interested in the standard amp version in Silver. Can you tell me when the next batch will be available and what is the price/warranty? I would also like to know if this would be a better fit for me than my Hypex 400ad modules. It would be driven by a Schiit passive/tube buffered preamp. Anyone on this thread have experience with the Hypex modules I'm using? I'm hoping Class D had improved in the last 10 years!
Thanks!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Dec 2017, 05:10 pm
Standard amps will be $999 and come with a 10 year warranty. As far as I’m concerned this is the best amp compared with anything. That’s why I’m selling them now rather than Hypex amps like I used to sell. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Dec 2017, 06:59 pm
Oh and regarding Lot 5 delivery, expect early February. Depending on how fast Lot 5 fills. I’m likely going to wait till Jan 1st to start taking Lot 5 deposits.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 17 Dec 2017, 07:52 pm
By Feb 1st I’m on track for lead time maximums of 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 08:58 am
I had to order from Europe to get a stainless Torx screw worthy of my new cases:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172973)


Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: lateboomer on 18 Dec 2017, 01:08 pm
The screw is beautiful. I hope the cost is reasonable. It's basically a screw.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: 2oldcranks on 18 Dec 2017, 04:21 pm
Still considering the furutech power cord upgrade option?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 05:06 pm
It’s amazing that when I order parts from Germany they only take 3 business days to arrive via DHL. But takes 7 business days and higher cost to ship a package across Canada. I actually figured out that if I lived in the US I would need to raise my shipping prices to US clients in order to get you amps in the same time as shipping with DHL from Canada. DHL has no domestic services in Canada or the US.

Yes these screws are very expensive compared to cheap garbage screws. But the only thing that matters to you guys is the Standard amp is $999 and the SE is $1399. Both will use 31 of these screws.

For S55N power cord go to ZenWave Audio.

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/furutech-fp-s55n-10-gauge-power-cable-nano-particle-fluid-enhancement/


 I was just thinking of adding the same thing to
my amp page in the webshop.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: glynnw on 18 Dec 2017, 05:16 pm
I finally have a use for those Torx drivers I have had in my tool box for 20 years.

And speaking of postage variances, shop on eBay and you can buy a watch, shipped from China, for under a dollar including postage.  But if you want to ship a watch to China it is about $15.00.  Our government is underwriting all the small Chinese shipments by offering what is apparently free postage.  This gives a HUGE advantage to Chinese vendors that we cannot duplicate here in the states.  And people wonder why the Post Office is losing money.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: jkelly on 18 Dec 2017, 06:38 pm
Can someone help me get caught up?

I am in lot 2 with the assembled black version. What case do I get?

Also I have all upgrades except speaker posts, is there any advantage to adding that to become a SE version?

Thanks,

Jeff
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 07:07 pm
If you are in Lot 1-3 you can decide if you want the Takachi case or one of the new cases. If you got the kit it will be $200 to upgrade to the new standard case. But it will be fully assembled with 10 year warranty. If you ordered assembled, you can choose either the Takachi, or the new standard case for the same price. If anyone from Lot 1-4 wants to upgrade to the SE amp, you’ll just need to pay the difference between what you already paid me and $1399. And you’ll get top of the line of all parts included.

I was just talking to the machine shop Foreman. It’s looking like it won’t be until around January 8th when I’ll have an example of the new cases to show you guys. I need to get all the panel profiles waterjet cut first, or else it will slow the entire production. Once they start final machining, they’re going to keep going and that’s when I’ll take a few of the first panels to the finishing stage. This way once they’re all ready, we will have the finishing process dialed in.

So Lot 1-3 guys will either need to wait or just settle with the Takachi cases. This holiday season is slowing things down, and the best machine shops are busy. Once the new batch of cases is ready, Lot 4 guys will get theirs first, followed with Lot 1-3 upgraders.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 18 Dec 2017, 07:31 pm
Are you still dealing with the mid tier cases. I thought I read awhile back you could opt for this case instead of the takashi case.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 07:32 pm
Are you still dealing with the mid tier cases. I thought I read awhile back you could opt for this case instead of the takashi case.

The mid tier case is the new standard case. Once all the Takachi cases are gone, I will only have 2 levels of cases. Standard and SE.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 18 Dec 2017, 07:42 pm
Thanks,just wasn’t sure
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 18 Dec 2017, 08:09 pm
I'm in lot 1 and had opted for the kit, but I'd prefer waiting for a preview of the finished case options, even if that would take up to the end of January or 1st half of February.

I'd hate to go for the "fast option" of sticking with the original Takachi cases only to find out a few weeks later that your new options look substantially better for hardly any surplus cost  :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 08:12 pm
Well I’m getting things done as fast as I possibly can, while utilizing the very best shops in Canada for the work. There’s nothing more I can do than this. But good thing is when I finally have 200-300 case parts machined and ready for anodizing, future lead times will be much shorter.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 18 Dec 2017, 08:31 pm
If you are in Lot 1-3 you can decide if you want the Takachi case or one of the new cases. If you got the kit it will be $200 to upgrade to the new standard case. But it will be fully assembled with 10 year warranty. If you ordered assembled, you can choose either the Takachi, or the new standard case for the same price...

So Lot 1-3 guys will either need to wait or just settle with the Takachi cases. This holiday season is slowing things down, and the best machine shops are busy. Once the new batch of cases is ready, Lot 4 guys will get theirs first, followed with Lot 1-3 upgraders.

For the kit buyers, that's a generous deal.  Better case, assembly and 10 year warranty for $200.  :D  The only downside is waiting a little longer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 18 Dec 2017, 08:36 pm
Mike,

Based on input that you provided in the original thread re: your 6v DAC straight connection to the Icepower 1200AS w/ HQPlayer ...

If HQPlayer volume control is used exclusively, what volume setting/ range are you typically adjusting in HQPlayer to achieve normal listening levels (80 db or so) ?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 18 Dec 2017, 08:41 pm
For the kit buyers, that's a generous deal.  Better case, assembly and 10 year warranty for $200.  :D  The only downside is waiting a little longer.

I can deal with that!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 08:43 pm
Mike,

Based on input that you provided in the original thread re: your 6v DAC straight connection to the Icepower 1200AS w/ HQPlayer ...

If HQPlayer volume control is used exclusively, what volume setting/ range are you typically adjusting in HQPlayer to achieve normal listening levels (80 db or so) ?

My speakers are 89dB efficient. My ears were ringing for a week turning the Sheffield Drum and track disk to 75% volume in HQP. And the recording level is very low on that album. I've never heard it so loud before. With my NC-500 based amps the voice coil's bottomed on the back plate and popped at levels much lower with this track.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: skidaner on 18 Dec 2017, 09:03 pm
Hello Mike,

Your price of $1399 for the top of the line Purepower plus black case and shipping would come to $1489, right?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 09:41 pm
Shipping cost all depends on where you’re located. Shipping cost is going to go up a bit for the SE as it’s triple the weight of the Takachi case.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: skidaner on 18 Dec 2017, 09:53 pm
So, I'm guessing over $1500 for SE in black case shipped to Arizona.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 10:00 pm
No US shipping is only $50. Maybe $75 for the SE.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 11:08 pm
There won’t be an extra charge for the black. That was just a Takachi thing.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: skidaner on 18 Dec 2017, 11:24 pm
Great deal about the black case.

Thanks,

George
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 18 Dec 2017, 11:27 pm
The $200 upgrade offer for kit owners will expire 24 hours after I unveil the new case pictures.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 18 Dec 2017, 11:39 pm
I'm in!
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/574/takemymoney.jpg)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 18 Dec 2017, 11:40 pm
Earlier on, I thought you'd offered that kit owners could upgrade at any point by trading in the old case for a newer one, less the second-hand value of the Takachi.  Is that still an option?

Also, when are the kits going to be made available?  Will they be shipped out before you post the upgrade option on your website? 

For some reason, I had it in my mind that kit owners would have their amps in-house before you listed the upgrade options, and then we'd choose whether to send back to you for upgrade.  It's sounding like my mind was playing tricks on me again...
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 18 Dec 2017, 11:46 pm
The $200 upgrade offer for kit owners will expire 24 hours after I unveil the new case pictures.

Why such a short time frame?  I know you want to get moving but some people do not live on their computers.  And some live far, far away in different time zones. I am certain I want to upgrade my kit to the standard.  Can that be done now or do I have to wait and play "Beat the Clock"?

And if I understand correctly from your previous posts.  There is no extra charge for black on the standard case so anyone who originally ordered black and paid an extra $40 will now pay the same $200 up-charge and end up paying $40 more for the same product than anyone who originally ordered silver. That does not seem fair.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: skidaner on 19 Dec 2017, 12:06 am
So, if I ordered a kit and want to upgrade to the SE I need to first add the $200 upgrade?   

I thought the $200 upgrade was just for ordering the new standard case.  I don't remember any mention of an option for upgrading from the kit to the SE!

I also paid an extra $40 for the black case like Don_S.

I need a brew now!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 19 Dec 2017, 12:21 am
Thanks for going above and beyond to deliver the best product you can and at such a reasonable price.

The changes, while all positive and welcome, have led to some confusion on what we've already paid, what we need to pay if we want/need to upgrade, how to pay it and when we need to do so.

Can you come up with a straightforward way for us early adopters to handle that? I don't suppose it can easily be done on the website because we've all ordered different custom options. This won't be an issue for future customers as they'll just order Std or SE.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: k6davis on 19 Dec 2017, 12:23 am
Once the new batch of cases is ready, Lot 4 guys will get theirs first, followed with Lot 1-3 upgraders.

Lot 1 (me  :lol: ) comes after Lot 4??
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 19 Dec 2017, 12:28 am
Thanks for going above and beyond to deliver the best product you can and at such a reasonable price.

The changes, while all positive and welcome, have led to some confusion on what we've already paid, what we need to pay if we want/need to upgrade, how to pay it and when we need to do so.

Can you come up with a straightforward way for us early adopters to handle that? I don't suppose it can easily be done on the website because we've all ordered different custom options. This won't be an issue for future customers as they'll just order Std or SE. The $200 upgrade offer for kit owners will expire 24 hours after I unveil the new case pictures.

Can you add an option soon on your website for Lot 1-3 who want the $200 upgrade from kit to full build and 10 year warranty? I check the website each day (when I am home) and would hate to miss out if you pick 24 hours when I have no access to a computer. I was hoping to build the kit and listen over the holidays but I don't think that will happen now.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 19 Dec 2017, 12:49 am
Lot 1 (me  :lol: ) comes after Lot 4??

Woohoo! Lot 4 rocks!  :green:  :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 19 Dec 2017, 01:41 am
I don’t think the upgrade option is coming until mike has pics ready f the upgraded cases.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 02:34 am
Earlier on, I thought you'd offered that kit owners could upgrade at any point by trading in the old case for a newer one, less the second-hand value of the Takachi.  Is that still an option?

Also, when are the kits going to be made available?  Will they be shipped out before you post the upgrade option on your website? 

For some reason, I had it in my mind that kit owners would have their amps in-house before you listed the upgrade options, and then we'd choose whether to send back to you for upgrade.  It's sounding like my mind was playing tricks on me again...

You’ll always have the option to trade up the cases. But if you go that route you’ll need to pay for shipping 3 ways (to you initially, back to me, then back to you) and you’ll need to pay the difference between the price you paid, and the price of the amp option you want to upgrade to. If you already bought premium connectors, then you can keep them of course. Also if the case panels are anything less than 100% mint, value will be deducted.

I would have liked to share pictures of the new cases before the Takachi cases arrive. But I found out today that is the going to be possible. The Takachi shipping date of around Xmas still hasn’t changed over the last month.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 02:38 am
So, if I ordered a kit and want to upgrade to the SE I need to first add the $200 upgrade?   

I thought the $200 upgrade was just for ordering the new standard case.  I don't remember any mention of an option for upgrading from the kit to the SE!

I also paid an extra $40 for the black case like Don_S.

I need a brew now!

No I didn’t say that. The $200 option is a special $99 off deal I’m offering to folks who want to upgrade from their kits to the standard case. It has nothing to do with the SE case. Like I mentioned, if folks want to upgrade to the SE case from anything they just need to pay the difference between what they already paid and $1399.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 02:43 am
Why such a short time frame?  I know you want to get moving but some people do not live on their computers.  And some live far, far away in different time zones. I am certain I want to upgrade my kit to the standard.  Can that be done now or do I have to wait and play "Beat the Clock"?

And if I understand correctly from your previous posts.  There is no extra charge for black on the standard case so anyone who originally ordered black and paid an extra $40 will now pay the same $200 up-charge and end up paying $40 more for the same product than anyone who originally ordered silver. That does not seem fair.

Anyone can choose now if they want to upgrade or not. The option has been unveiled a while ago now. The order will just need to be placed within 24 hours of me sharing the case pictures. I suppose I can open the option up in my website earlier for folks who are confident I’m not going through all of this effort just so I can deliver an inferior product at a higher production cost for me.

I’m already losing money offering $99 off on the case upgrade. If it’s going to create issues, it might be easier to just offer trade ups with 100% credit of original purchase instead. This way things will be clearer.   
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 02:45 am
Lot 1 (me  :lol: ) comes after Lot 4??

No Lot 1 is supposed to ship to me next week. If you want to upgrade then your order will need to come after Lot 4. The Lot 4 guys shouldn’t be bumped out of place just because the Lot 1-3 guys got a special offer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 03:06 am
Furutech stuff arrived. Wow this cable is massive!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173004)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173005)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173007)

Porn for Furutech lovers:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173008)

Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 19 Dec 2017, 03:44 am
I have lost track of what I have ordered and what I will be getting. Lol

So the takachi case is now being replaced by a "standard case".
And there is also an "SE" case at extra cost?
And the main differences are cosmetic and case quality?

To be honest I have found the takachi cases to be more than adequate with the other components I bought from you.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 03:49 am
I decided to produce my own cases to increase quality and shorten lead time. I’m allowing folks from Lot 1-3 who already ordered the Takachi cases to upgrade, but nobody is certainly obligated to do so. They can always stick with what they originally ordered and were happy with before I decided to build my own cases.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: arthurli on 19 Dec 2017, 03:59 am
can we keep the original  Takachi cases  and the buy the upgrad SE cases from you?
note:  I have bought the kits
Thankks
Andrew
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:10 am
can we keep the original  Takachi cases  and the buy the upgrad SE cases from you?
note:  I have bought the kits
Thankks
Andrew

Maybe I can offer that option later after all orders are caught up and I have many extras in inventory. But at the moment lack of case availability is the reason my webshop is shutdown right now. I would much rather sell these cases filled with all of the parts to make complete amps. I really have no desire to get into the case business.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: arthurli on 19 Dec 2017, 04:32 am
As i want to try them earlier, with the original  Takachi cases ,and then  upgrade to SE cases
It saves me money not to send back the old cases (delivery cost).
the total delivery costs to and from me almost balance the  Takachi cases  cost
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mresseguie on 19 Dec 2017, 04:53 am
I now better understand the situation. I'm lot 1 and paid the $200 for the finished Takachi (silver), and I chose the upgraded options. I'm all in for the upgraded SE case.

24 hours may be a squeeze depending on when it happens because I'm out of the country in a very different time zone. However, I will try very hard to make sure I get my order in and funds paid.

I very much appreciate what you're doing, Mike. Thank you.

Michael
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:57 am
As i want to try them earlier, with the original  Takachi cases ,and then  upgrade to SE cases
It saves me money not to send back the old cases (delivery cost).
the total delivery costs to and from me almost balance the  Takachi cases  cost

I’ll do it for your cases but not until I have many extras in stock.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 05:04 am
I now better understand the situation. I'm lot 1 and paid the $200 for the finished Takachi (silver), and I chose the upgraded options. I'm all in for the upgraded SE case.

24 hours may be a squeeze depending on when it happens because I'm out of the country in a very different time zone. However, I will try very hard to make sure I get my order in and funds paid.

I very much appreciate what you're doing, Mike. Thank you.

Michael

Just to clarify, I never said people will have only 24 hours to decide if they want to upgrade. Anyone can make that decision today. We are still 2 weeks away from me having case pictures to share. What’s going to expire 24 hours after the case pictures is the $99 discount. Because the cost of the complete amps is going up $99 vs the complete built Takachi case amps.

So I’ll open my webshop for upgrades tonight. Folks who are confident my next gen amps will be better and worth the $200 upgrade (silver or black) can place an upgrade order. Folks who need to see pictures first will just need to be on the ball and check the thread at least once a day. During a 24 hour period, no matter where you’re located in the world it’s still a full day.

Edit: If you ordered the amps assembled you don't need to pay $200 again. The $200 is only if you ordered in kit form.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: rwolters on 19 Dec 2017, 05:35 am
Mike,

Can you tell us how much you think the amp will weigh in it's various versions? You've said the SE case is triple the weight of the Takachi case, and I think you said the standard case was double the weight of the Takachi case. Just curious if you can give us an estimate of the final amp weights. Thanks.

Bob
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 05:44 am
Mike,

Can you tell us how much you think the amp will weigh in it's various versions? You've said the SE case is triple the weight of the Takachi case, and I think you said the standard case was double the weight of the Takachi case. Just curious if you can give us an estimate of the final amp weights. Thanks.

Bob

The Takachi based amp will be about 5.5kg. The standard new amp will be about 8.5kg. The SE will be around 15kg.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 19 Dec 2017, 05:47 am
Just to clarify, I never said people will have only 24 hours to decide if they want to upgrade. Anyone can make that decision today. We are still 2 weeks away from me having case pictures to share. What’s going to expire 24 hours after the case pictures is the $99 discount. Because the cost of the complete amps is going up $99 vs the complete built Takachi case amps.

So I’ll open my webshop for upgrades tonight. Folks who are confident my next gen amps will be better and worth the $200 upgrade (silver or black) can place an upgrade order. Folks who need to see pictures first will just need to be on the ball and check the thread at least once a day. During a 24 hour period, no matter where you’re located in the world it’s still a full day.
I don’t see any $200 upgrade option yet on your website. Just the connectors and wire options
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 05:48 am
I don’t see any $200 upgrade option yet on your website. Just the connectors and wire options

No not yet because I haven’t done it yet. Give me 20 mins.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 06:14 am
Okay the upgrade option for lot 1-3 kit owners to upgrade to the new standard case is now open in the webshop.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop


If anyone in lot 1-4 (regardless if you ordered kit or assembled) wants to upgrade to the SE amp, you'll need to wait till I open the webshop for that upgrade. How that will work is you will order the new SE amp, and I'll refund 100% of the money you spent previously.   
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 06:51 am
I got some quotes and to the U.S mainland I'm going to need to charge $100 shipping for the heavy SE amp. For all other countries I'll need to figure it out. The standard case shipping will remain to be $50 to the U.S mainland.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 19 Dec 2017, 06:56 am
Placed my order for the silver standard case upgrade!  Webshop working and no issues
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 06:57 am
Placed my order for the silver standard case upgrade!  Webshop working and no issues

Excellent! I already have 9 Takachi cases I'm going to need to re-sell.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 07:05 am
I got an early Christmas present from John Chapman today :)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173023)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 19 Dec 2017, 07:12 am
Just wanted to order the upgrade to new cases but didn't get the Paypal choice in the checkout-section, just straight credit/debit card options?
I payed through Paypal before and would like to do so again
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 07:24 am
Just wanted to order the upgrade to new cases but didn't get the Paypal choice in the checkout-section, just straight credit/debit card options?
I payed through Paypal before and would like to do so again

I turned off my PayPal option because it ends up costing me 10% of all purchases in fees when I use them. 10% of gross sales is more than 30% of my profit with margins as low as mine. Tossed in the wind to PayPal.  Because they force me to withdraw funds in Canadian dollars, and charge insane exchange fees to do so. Then I must convert back to USD to buy parts and pay another exchange fee. And this is on top of the initial 3.5%+ fee. I set up the new system with my bank and I withdraw it in USD. So much better. And you have even better purchase protection with your credit card than with PayPal.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Dynky on 19 Dec 2017, 08:19 am
all fine with me, just thought it was a glitch in the system. :wink:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:22 am
all fine with me, just thought it was a glitch in the system. :wink:

No more like a glitch in the PayPal system. It really is a joke. I can see why so many merchants don’t use it anymore. Major hassle and loads of fees.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: uncola on 19 Dec 2017, 09:22 am
Yeah paypal really charges a lot.  I try to resell my used audio stuff via forums to avoid paypal + ebay fees..  and I pay via paypal gift unless it's pretty expensive
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 19 Dec 2017, 11:09 am
Mike, If someone originally ordered an assembled Takachi case amp and wished to wait for the mid-tier case instead, is that situation to be handled just by contacting you rather than through the order page of the website? Also, do you plan for  the mid-tier and SE level case sales prototypes to be produced at the same time so we can then make an informed decision between them? Thanks.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: brother love on 19 Dec 2017, 01:02 pm
I did a search in this "66 page & counting" thread for standard (mid-tier) & SE case dimensions, but came up dry ...

What are the dimensions for the 2 channel Std. & SE cases? If same as the Takachi cases, then that info has already been provided.

Humble suggestion: If you put some basic info in a post & make it a sticky thread at the top of your Circle, that could save you a lot of time answering the same stuff over & over.  Once the initial DIY lots get delivered, you can update the sticky thread accordingly to your assembled offerings. Or you can list basic info on the Mivera Audio web site.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 19 Dec 2017, 01:20 pm
Okay the upgrade option for lot 1-3 kit owners to upgrade to the new standard case is now open in the webshop.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop


If anyone in lot 1-4 (regardless if you ordered kit or assembled) wants to upgrade to the SE amp, you'll need to wait till I open the webshop for that upgrade. How that will work is you will order the new SE amp, and I'll refund 100% of the money you spent previously.
So if I paid you through PayPal $45 for cable upgrades and  $6 for selecting connectors already how will you deduct that from the $200 new credit card charge for the upgrade from kit to  standard pure power amp?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: markn on 19 Dec 2017, 02:46 pm
Hi,  I can see the upgrade on my IPhone, but when I go to the PC to place order, only the connector upgrades show.....
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: mr_bill on 19 Dec 2017, 02:59 pm
HI Mike,
I’m lot 2 (I think).
I’ll prob upgrade to the nicer case for $200. That just adds nicer case and assembly and keeps whatever connector and wire upgrades I already chose - correct?
If I want to go to the SE upgrade is that the difference between what I have paid so far and $1399?
Eager to see the case pics so I can decide.
Thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 19 Dec 2017, 03:36 pm
Okay the upgrade option for lot 1-3 kit owners to upgrade to the new standard case is now open in the webshop.

https://www.miveraaudio.com/shop


If anyone in lot 1-4 (regardless if you ordered kit or assembled) wants to upgrade to the SE amp, you'll need to wait till I open the webshop for that upgrade. How that will work is you will order the new SE amp, and I'll refund 100% of the money you spent previously.

That still leaves buyers of the original Takachi amp in black paying $40 more for the new standard.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:44 pm
Mike, If someone originally ordered an assembled Takachi case amp and wished to wait for the mid-tier case instead, is that situation to be handled just by contacting you rather than through the order page of the website? Also, do you plan for  the mid-tier and SE level case sales prototypes to be produced at the same time so we can then make an informed decision between them? Thanks.

If someone already paid for assembly then the upgrade to the new standard case is free.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:48 pm
I did a search in this "66 page & counting" thread for standard (mid-tier) & SE case dimensions, but came up dry ...

What are the dimensions for the 2 channel Std. & SE cases? If same as the Takachi cases, then that info has already been provided.

Humble suggestion: If you put some basic info in a post & make it a sticky thread at the top of your Circle, that could save you a lot of time answering the same stuff over & over.  Once the initial DIY lots get delivered, you can update the sticky thread accordingly to your assembled offerings. Or you can list basic info on the Mivera Audio web site.

The new amp dimensions are 100x340x342.7mm for standard, and 100x340x354.5mm for SE. Internal size is the same as Takachi. Just bigger because of material thickness.

Yes I’m going to make a new sticky thread once new case pics are ready.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:49 pm
So if I paid you through PayPal $45 for cable upgrades and  $6 for selecting connectors already how will you deduct that from the $200 new credit card charge for the upgrade from kit to  standard pure power amp?

If you paid for any upgrades you’ll still get them with the new case if you upgrade to it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:50 pm
Hi,  I can see the upgrade on my IPhone, but when I go to the PC to place order, only the connector upgrades show.....

Not sure what’s up. I see it on my phone.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:51 pm
HI Mike,
I’m lot 2 (I think).
I’ll prob upgrade to the nicer case for $200. That just adds nicer case and assembly and keeps whatever connector and wire upgrades I already chose - correct?
If I want to go to the SE upgrade is that the difference between what I have paid so far and $1399?
Eager to see the case pics so I can decide.
Thanks,
Bill

Yes you’ll just have order the SE amp when available, and I’ll refund all the money you originally spent. Easiest way to do it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 04:54 pm
That still leaves buyers of the original Takachi amp in black paying $40 more for the new standard.

My price for the new case upgrade is $200 regardless of the case color you’re trading in. I need $200 for each upgrade in order to offer this deal. If you feel the price is unreasonable, you can always stick to what you originally bought. Who knows how long I’ll be stuck with these Takachi cases. This is a money losing offer for me, not a money making offer.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: raddar on 19 Dec 2017, 05:15 pm
If you paid for any upgrades you’ll still get them with the new case if you upgrade to it.

Mike, perhaps a more detailed description would avoid confusion. Your website says: Upgrade from Takachi based kit to standard Purepower amp. If it said a standard Purepower amp is a "fully assembled amp in an upgraded case with all basic wiring and a 10 year warranty" that would help.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 05:19 pm
Mike, perhaps a more detailed description would avoid confusion. Your website says: Upgrade from Takachi based kit to standard Purepower amp. If it said a standard Purepower amp is a "fully assembled amp in an upgraded case with all basic wiring and a 10 year warranty" that would help.

Okay but anyone going to do the upgrade is doing it because they read about it in this thread. I’ve explained what you get over and over again on the last 10 or so pages.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 05:35 pm
So I’m going to update you guys on the timeline for the new cases.

January week1 : All aluminum plates are being cut by waterjet machine
January week 2/3: Panels are being machined and pre-finished prior to anodizer
January week 3, Feb week 1: Vapor blasting and anodizing.

I’m trying my best to get the Lot 4 units done by the middle of week 2/3. Following them the upgrade cases for Lot 1-3, and Lot 5 cases will ship. By 2nd week of Feb I’ll have inventory for 150 cases ready for anodizing on future lots.

All of the shops involved know I’m in a big hurry. They’re working overtime to get these done as fast as possible. But nobody is able to start before the new year.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 19 Dec 2017, 05:48 pm
And can you remind us the timeline on the Takachi cases?  Were they shipping around Xmas?  And if so, what does that mean for actual shipping date from you for all the kits to customers? 

I'm weighing upgrading now and waiting versus the time value to me of getting the Takachi first and settling in with the sound before deciding how much further down the rabbit hole to go with this.  If it's as good as you say it is, I have no problem spending extra to further optimize and probably go with an SE upgrade.  But I'm reluctant to go whole hog before at least hearing the modules in my own system to gauge full potential.  Assembly hassle is no biggie for me at all given how simple you're making it.  Though the 10 year transferable warranty is very attractive, and the $200 is a great and generous offer to upgrade to the standard at this point.  For me, waiting that extra month is just going to be excruciating, and especially hearing all the Lot 4 folks getting theirs before us Lot 1-3 folks. 

It's a real head-scratcher, and knowing more specific delivery timeline for the Takachi kits would be helpful in deciding. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 06:03 pm
Takachi cases are supposed to ship to me on the 25th. But I’m
Not sure the exact arrival date with the holidays until I get a tracking number. But as soon as they arrive I’ll start boxing the kits up and ship out. All the other stuff will be ready to go.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 19 Dec 2017, 06:44 pm
There's several people involved with the Mivera Audio team. And as demand requires I can hire as many as I need. However my strong industry ties to many industry OEM's will allow me to outsource any work I need done to professionals who have proven to be competent. I've been in business for over 20 years. I know how running a business works. I am long finished with the oilfield, so no worry of me ever going back there. Oil's dead IMO.

As I've already explained earlier in this thread, the DIY unit's have the Icepower 3 year warranty. However I will honor the full 10 year 100% original purchase price trade up to the DIY unit's as well.

Can you elaborate on the warranty for the DIY Lot 1-3 folks not upgrading their chassis at this time? For example, if something happens to the Icepower module in the first three years, it is covered under warranty. After that you're out of luck or to get it fixed/replaced you have to send the unit back and upgrade to the new standard chassis? Thanks

gab
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp kit. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 06:46 pm
Can you elaborate on the warranty for the DIY Lot 1-3 folks not upgrading their chassis at this time? For example, if something happens to the Icepower module in the first three years, it is covered under warranty. After that you're out of luck or to get it fixed/replaced you have to send the unit back and upgrade to the new standard chassis? Thanks

gab

All kit buyers will get the 3 year warranty that covers manufacturing defects. Not if you drop off a belcony, or throw in the bathtub. If it blows up after the 3 years then I’ll be able to get you replacement modules. 

Yes you’ll need to send back for any upgrades.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Photon46 on 19 Dec 2017, 06:58 pm
If someone already paid for assembly then the upgrade to the new standard case is free.

Sorry I wasn't clear, let me phrase the question a different way. I paid for an assembled amp. Is your default way to handle an order like mine going to be: automatically assume the buyer wants an upgraded mid-level case and wait to fill the order sometime in February? Right now it appears there are two options - if you want an assembled amp in January, specify the Takachi case. If you want an upgraded case option you wait until sometime in February. How do we communicate which option we want?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 07:00 pm
Sorry I wasn't clear, let me phrase the question a different way. I paid for an assembled amp. Is your default way to handle an order like mine going to be: automatically assume the buyer wants an upgraded mid-level case and wait to fill the order sometime in February? Right now it appears there are two options - if you want an assembled amp in January, specify the Takachi case. If you want an upgraded case option you wait until sometime in February. How do we communicate which option we want?

No if people don’t email me to request the upgrade they will be getting what they ordered originally. The upgrade offer is for folks who are on the ball and going over every post in this thread with a fine tooth comb. I would rather ship the Takachi cases. So it will take some effort on the buyers part if they want a free upgrade.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Audiogeek2 on 19 Dec 2017, 07:19 pm
I might stick with the Takachi case for the prebuilt amp.
If I want can I order an SE case at a later stage?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Don_S on 19 Dec 2017, 07:47 pm
Mike,

Are you sorry yet?   :lol:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173088)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:01 pm
I might stick with the Takachi case for the prebuilt amp.
If I want can I order an SE case at a later stage?

Yes you can always upgrade. But shipping from Australia may make the free upgrade now more cost effective, than the $100 upgrade plus shipping later. 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:02 pm
Mike,

Are you sorry yet?   :lol:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173088)

Next time rather than offering deals I’m just going to offer straight up trade ins. Less confusing for everyone.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:12 pm
Regarding PayPal. If you have money in your PayPal balance, and really want to use PayPal, I can allow payments with PayPal. But for credit or debit card purchases my other option is much better. Just contact me if you want to pay with your PayPal balance.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: maty on 19 Dec 2017, 08:37 pm
You need to make a table with the options and maybe a FAQ too.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Chris Adams on 19 Dec 2017, 08:49 pm
I just upgraded to standard Purepower amp for both my amps with my credit card. That was easy. :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:50 pm
You need to make a table with the options and maybe a FAQ too.

The 2 options are already on my website.  But I will be revamping my website and making a new thread here before Lot 5 opens.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:53 pm
I just upgraded to standard Purepower amp for both my amps with my credit card. That was easy. :thumb:

Yes much better system. And I don’t see any of your card numbers. That’s all handled securely by the credit card processor, and is 100% covered by any fraud protection.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 08:58 pm
Finally made it to Jay’s. Using silver/gold with Furutech Rhodium RCA inputs. Still cheap Electrolux power cable and cheap binding posts. I didn’t make it to my cable assembler’s place to grab premium power cable and binding posts yet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173090)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173091)

 
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: monte on 19 Dec 2017, 09:15 pm
Is this another option, the super heavy duty invisible case
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 09:18 pm
Is this another option, the super heavy duty invisible case

This is the SE signature. Once Don brings the shamwow things should open up a bit.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: genjamon on 19 Dec 2017, 09:21 pm
Almost looks like an SE-IO, with "IO" standing for "Inside-Out".  Modules on outside, case/chassis on inside.   :duh:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 09:22 pm
Almost looks like an SE-IO, with "IO" standing for "Inside-Out".  Modules on outside, case/chassis on inside.   :duh:

That’s the little Folsom amp behind it.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 19 Dec 2017, 09:41 pm
That’s the little Folsom amp behind it.

I was wondering what was going on with the Jupiter cap there. The pic gives the illusion the two amps are connected.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: spence on 19 Dec 2017, 09:54 pm
So how does it sound?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 09:55 pm
So how does it sound?

Really good!
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 10:41 pm
There we go. Don to the rescue!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173095)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: gab on 19 Dec 2017, 11:06 pm
So Bavmike - I don't think I recall you commenting on what speakers you personally use in your home. Please enlighten us! I haven't heard the NX-Oticas you are playing with at Jays house, but I have heard GR Research Super-7 and actually own his Super-V and LS-6. His Super-V is awesome!

gab (DIY group 1)
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 19 Dec 2017, 11:15 pm
So Bavmike - I don't think I recall you commenting on what speakers you personally use in your home. Please enlighten us! I haven't heard the NX-Oticas you are playing with at Jays house, but I have heard GR Research Super-7 and actually own his Super-V and LS-6. His Super-V is awesome!

gab (DIY group 1)

I actually shared detail pics of the construction process of my current speakers earlier in this thread. However I have an arsenal of drivers in my inventory enough to make 2 dozen speakers. I started building speakers 25 years ago and only recently got into electronics over the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 19 Dec 2017, 11:28 pm
Just give me a decent case that won't zap the cat with a few selected upgrades. 

I would like the AARP discount dammit!   :lol:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 02:09 am
I must say this little Dodd preamp is a very impressive piece. Gary knew what he was doing and it’s a real shame he isn’t around today to hear how his preamp sounds together with this amp. His legacy is living on at Jay’s place.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 02:42 am
There was actually some points in today’s listening session where I found my eyes welling up with tears over how good the sound I was hearing. The room was silent from both Jay and Don (other than the sound of the music). I look over and I notice the same shine in their eyes as well. This amplifier is seriously a special piece of kit. If anyone doesn’t like it, the only possible reason would be their source gear is crap.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Dec 2017, 03:14 am
Ok, here we go....
Brief and to the point....    most of you know what I've been listening to... with     more detail.... and more substance .
even  when I'm listening at   low  to moderate SPL's,  there are significant differences.    there is a  lot more detail  and  at the same time, there is  a ton of weight  and  emphasis  behind the music.   There  were   a number of people here today  and  we alll noticed increased  separation between  instraments  and performers on the stage.   when  we  start to  push the   amp  beyond  what  we'd call  "normal" listening levels,   it seems to have  no limits...   nothing compresses, there are no changes in  tone, character,  or  fatigue levels....... the presentation  just  stays  as it   was   but man, there  is   a ton of weight behind  EVERYTHING!
You  won't go wrong  guys... I'm  truely impressed ......yeah  I could into a ton of more detail but, these are so close to shipping that it's better to let  you all give your feedback.....   there's been a lot of these amps sold and  as   I stated above...  I   can't see any one being  less than  thrilled with their purchase.... it's a great   piece  :thumb:
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 03:33 am
Thanks Jay!

People may look at Jay’s reference Folsom amp is an amp not on the same level as very expensive commercial offerings. But folks who have built Folsom amps loaded to the max with top supplies know that that the Folsom amp is a very special piece. To my ears it sounds better than many $10000+ amps I’ve heard if listening within the limits of it’s power output.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 03:52 am
Hi Guys,

I decided because of the volume of upgrades to the new cases, I’m going to end the upgrade option from Takachi to the new cases. Sure you’ll be able to ship back to upgrade, but no more upgrading before delivery.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 20 Dec 2017, 05:03 am
Hi Guys,

I decided because of the volume of upgrades to the new cases, I’m going to end the upgrade option from Takachi to the new cases. Sure you’ll be able to ship back to upgrade, but no more upgrading before delivery.

Wait...is this for all lots?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 05:04 am
The upgrade offer was only for Lot 1-3.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 20 Dec 2017, 05:07 am
The upgrade offer was only for Lot 1-3.

So what happens now with lot 4 and lot 1 6ch? Is the case automatically upgraded to the standard new case?
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 05:09 am
So what happens now with lot 4 and lot 1 6ch? Is the case automatically upgraded to the standard new case?

Yes it will be. There won’t be a Takachi based 6 channel amp. Only standard and SE. All Lot 4 guys will get the new standard case as well unless they prefer the Takachi.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 20 Dec 2017, 05:15 am
Yes it will be. There won’t be a Takachi based 6 channel amp. Only standard and SE. All Lot 4 guys will get the new standard case as well unless they prefer the Takachi.

OK, thank you for clarifying. I wasn't sure how that all worked out. Trying to keep up, but it's not easy with my busy season here.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 05:17 am
OK, thank you for clarifying. I wasn't sure how that all worked out. Trying to keep up, but it's not easy with my busy season here.

Yeah well it’s a busy season everywhere. If folks from Lot 1-3 who bought kits already paid the $200 upgrade they’re in. If they were fence sitters sorry too late.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ZimAhUm on 20 Dec 2017, 05:28 am
So I’m going to update you guys on the timeline for the new cases.

January week1 : All aluminum plates are being cut by waterjet machine
January week 2/3: Panels are being machined and pre-finished prior to anodizer
January week 3, Feb week 1: Vapor blasting and anodizing.

I’m trying my best to get the Lot 4 units done by the middle of week 2/3. Following them the upgrade cases for Lot 1-3, and Lot 5 cases will ship. By 2nd week of Feb I’ll have inventory for 150 cases ready for anodizing on future lots.

All of the shops involved know I’m in a big hurry. They’re working overtime to get these done as fast as possible. But nobody is able to start before the new year.

OK. Does your prediction for lot 4 hold true for lot1-6ch? I'm in that first 6ch lot so just trying to understand how the timeline pertains to me. Thanks
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: bavmike on 20 Dec 2017, 05:31 am
OK. Does your prediction for lot 4 hold true for lot1-6ch? I'm in that first 6ch lot so just trying to understand how the timeline perhaps to me. Thanks

There’s no prediction. Lot 4-2 channel and Lot 1-6 channel will automatically get the upgraded cases.
Title: Re: Icepower 1200AS amp. Class D like you've never heard before
Post by: ohenry on 20 Dec 2017, 05:31 am