[sonicxtc]

Comet Exogal.
I breezed through the first two pages of this thread and I see a few strong recommendations for the Comet.

I've lived with the Comet for several months. It's great; no equivocation, just plain great. I spoke to an industry insider and he told me that if he were designing a hi-rez dac, he'd have aimed to incorporate much of what the Comet already does. The team, the technology and the product are simply excellent. I hear a balanced sound that provides plenty of detail with no glare, full dynamics and a toe-tapping involving presentation. Also, Jeff at Exogal has been great at responding to emails.

I don't write many posts or offer a lot of raves, but Exogal deserves a rave.
I have no affiliation with Exogal.

Good luck in your quest.

[Anonamemouse]

I'd get something with MQA built in.

I'd not. MQA was dead on arrival, and it will stay that way.

[SteveMiller]

Greetings All

I have to throw my vote in the ring.  Tommy O'Brien has been doing fabulous things at reasonable prices over at Digital Amplifier Company. His most recent effort has produced the rather astounding DAC DAC.  Its currently available for under $1000 bucks.  Uses outboard power supply, and runs a fully balanced architecture.  The DAC DAC is available in two flavors, High Spec which is a full out pursuit of measurements, and Tube Like, which is very organic, and lifelike.  Each follows one simple principle; Ultra Short signal path length. And it freakin Works! 

See some review discussion here: http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/digital-amplifier-company-dac-dac/

See the DAC DAC here: http://www.cherryamp.com/#!digital-source/c1rwc

In my system, I own both the HS and TL versions, and these DACs absolutely trounce several models I've owned in the $3k to $8K range.   

[JLM]

Audiophiles chasing digital formats...

HDCD, SACD, DVDa, DSD, DXD, and now MQA.  Have I missed others?  All had/have their advocates, all have made promises, all have their technological merits, and all have their sonic advantages (although the jury is still out on MQA).  But how many albums (that we want to hear) have been released in these formats?  My guess is <2%.  And how many of those do we not already have in another format?  Even fewer (I for one am too cheap to buy a 2nd release in hopes of gaining fidelity). 

OTOH I too am waiting for to see how big of MQA library Tidal will offer and at what price.  But I not be holding my breath waiting for that day when I'm ready to buy the next DAC.  Note that my entire library is ripped and it's 100% Redbook.

Audiophiles enjoy the hunt perhaps more than the prize.  And thus we keep swapping gear, trying various tweaks, and by doing so keep the manufacturers in business and the confusion level high. 

[mcgsxr]

It does seem sometimes that formats muddy the waters.

I imagine it comes down to what the OP is searching for.

When I wanted to stick with a front end for a while, I focused on 16/44.1 through 24/192.  That kept the potential DAC's focused on what my existing library is full of.  Truth be told the hi-rez (anything beyond redbook) is still likely less than 10% of my collection.

Lots of cool options suggested so far - OP, have you made any progress?

[datahut]

Hey All,
Thanks again for all information/opinions contributed to this thread over the past nine months or so.  Since this technology as mentioned is a  moving target, I've been taking my sweet a$$ time checking reviews on recommended sites, looking at manufacturers' websites for new and updated model specs, checking prices used and new, then cycling back to these replies (which I give a lot of weight to especially if by listeners who own what they recommend).

Here's what I've boiled it down to:
a) Reduced what think need to spend for a quality DAC closer to $1500.   
b) Looking further at, purchasing, either a Gustard X20, Schitt (Gungir/Bifrost Multibit) or used Exogal Comet Plus.

But, any new information would be welcome especially if I'm missing some point or criteria.  Again, for now all I'm intending on using a DAC for
is converting music files played or streamed on a Windows PC (using Foobar) so they can be fed to a modest Naim system.  The DAC input will be a USB, output RCA to RCA inputs on a Naim NAC 72 pre-amp.  I don't need a DAC to function as a pre-amp, nor am I sure from responses whether I need DSD vs. PCM, or whether it matters at this point as most DACs have converted to DSD. 

[KLH007]

Datahut, The Comet Plus also replaces a preamp, and on Agon Underwood sells new blems at $2,000, great value.

[xander1929]

See if you can hear Audiolab M-DAC+. Just got one a week ago and so far my experience with it is pretty amazing. Comparing with my previous Teac UD-501, Rega DAC, Marantz NA7004 and Marantz SA8005(still with me connected now to the M-DAC+) which function as well as a DAC, this one sounds a lot more better than those i experienced. Very happy with it and all smiles while enjoying my music..

[slugworth]

   If I were buying new and not really sure about the technology and the sound the sound I'm looking for, I'd check this out.  DSD, PCM, NOS and oversampling which I believe is user selectable.
  Seems to be on back order maybe  due to  the hype of a new product.
 Kitsunehifi.com Holo Spring dac.

[AmpDesigner333]

Take a look:
http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/digital-amplifier-company-dac-dac/

Note the statement "DAC DAC may be the best digital to analog converter to come along in 3 decades"....  It's about the SOUND, not unnecessary features, fancy displays, or support for formats with little available content.

Jeremy plans a follow up review of the TL (tube-like) version....

[SteveMiller]

I,agree with Tommy.  You can have all the toys, knobs, switches and options....but if the sound is not what you're after then you'll be shopping again. 

DAC DAC abso-freakinlutely nails the sound part of this equation.  It's features are pretty focussed on just one thing...Sound.   But I found ( and I bought BOTH flavours TL and HS ) that once you hear DAC DAC do its thing on ANY kind of music that I couldn't care less about features.

   Ferrari buyers don't ask for cup holders!

See it here: http://www.cherryamp.com/digital-source

[JLM]

I,agree with Tommy.  You can have all the toys, knobs, switches and options....but if the sound is not what you're after then you'll be shopping again. 

DAC DAC abso-freakinlutely nails the sound part of this equation.  It's features are pretty focussed on just one thing...Sound.   But I found ( and I bought BOTH flavours TL and HS ) that once you hear DAC DAC do its thing on ANY kind of music that I couldn't care less about features.

   Ferrari buyers don't ask for cup holders!

See it here: http://www.cherryamp.com/digital-source

Unfortunately it only inputs coax, so most will have to add a USB/coax converter and coax cable.  And compared to many current offerings, it also lacks volume control, multiple inputs, DSD, and headphone amp.  All that adds to the price tag and clutter.

[AmpDesigner333]

Unfortunately it only inputs coax, so most will have to add a USB/coax converter and coax cable.  And compared to many current offerings, it also lacks volume control, multiple inputs, DSD, and headphone amp.  All that adds to the price tag and clutter.

A little known fact: analog volume control on a DAC means bringing the signals down to single ended, plus one or two additional buffer stages.  I just don't understand what some people have against digital attenuation, which allows elimination of added dynamic-range compromising circuitry in the signal path.

Take a look at these minimalist systems.  The audio is DC coupled all the way to the speakers.  Disappearing noise floor.  No pre-amp needed. They are just two examples of price-friendly clutter-free ultra-high-performance systems:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138437.msg1473761#msg1473761

Plenty of "streamers" have coax out, and you can get a bit-perfect USB to SPDIF converter for less than $100.  It comes back to the sound.  If you want convenience, might as well listen to your Bose wave radio.  We are talking about very high performance audio here.

Another option is using a Stereo Maraschino (STM), which allows super-high-end sound through the balanced inputs, and an 1/8" jack for just about any single ended source.  The DAC DAC, STM, and 1kW power supply have the same "footprint" forming a "triple stack" sound system (400Wpc into 4Ω) in less than a square foot of table space.  Thanks.

[Ric Schultz]

Analog volume control can be done fully balanced in the output stage of a DAC without adding anything but a series resistor on each phase and switching resistors between the phases (in between the IV converter and a buffer......totally balanced all the way out).  Almost everyone uses a buffer after the IV converter anyway.

32 bit digital volume control is built in to ESS Sabre DACs and others.  The (scheduled for release in Dec.) Oppo Sonica DAC ($799) and the about to be released in two weeks new Gustard X20U Pro DAC ($899 delivered) both have this feature.  The Sonica DAC will have one of the new ESS9038 DAC chips and the Gustard will have two of the new ESS9028 DAC chips. They both have remote controls with volume.  The Sonica DAC will have wireless streaming and also usb inputs for hard drives.  They both have tons of inputs including a USB DAC input with full DSD256 capability.

[OzarkTom]

And the prices keep falling.

I have noticed a lot of new CD players are being released.

[AmpDesigner333]

Analog volume control can be done fully balanced in the output stage of a DAC without adding anything but a series resistor on each phase and switching resistors between the phases (in between the IV converter and a buffer......totally balanced all the way out).  Almost everyone uses a buffer after the IV converter anyway.

32 bit digital volume control is built in to ESS Sabre DACs and others.  The (scheduled for release in Dec.) Oppo Sonica DAC ($799) and the about to be released in two weeks new Gustard X20U Pro DAC ($899 delivered) both have this feature.  The Sonica DAC will have one of the new ESS9038 DAC chips and the Gustard will have two of the new ESS9028 DAC chips. They both have remote controls with volume.  The Sonica DAC will have wireless streaming and also usb inputs for hard drives.  They both have tons of inputs including a USB DAC input with full DSD256 capability.

Re:balanced volume....  Aside from TVC, balanced is shot by wiper accuracy in ganged 4-deep pots.   There's no way around it.  Show me a "true" balanced volume control with 120dB DNR at -6dB FS and I'll change my mind.  That's the kind of performance you'd need, but tell me what other DAC does tube emulation (or uses physical tubes) and offers 120dB?  It's not just about specs, either, but offering tube transfer characteristics without any tube noise PLUS double differential outputs PLUS no microphonic tube distortion????   DAC DAC TL is the ONLY such product.  It's only about the sound, not a thousand inputs or decoding in some obscure format....  Just the ultimate sound.

[Folsom]

So does the DAC DAC use extra bits for volume control?

[Ric Schultz]

The DAC DAC has no volume control. 

I described how to make an extremely seriously transparent volume control balanced.  I will say it again.  You use a fixed resistor (nude Vishay) in series with each IV converter out.  Then, with a switch, you switch .1% resistors between the phases (on the output of the resistors).....then you go to a buffer on each phase and then out.  The most transparent volume control in the world?  Well, you could use LDRs like what Tortuga does for a smidge better sound.  But we are up there in the top 2% anyway. 

In my opinion, based on years of DAC making and modifying, there is no way a simple DAC with stock Burr-Brown DAC chips and some op amps on the output can have "ultimate sound".  Of course, I have not heard the DAC DAC.....so maybe I am wrong.  Jeremy Kipnis's DAC references (mentioned in the review) are from a few year old $2000 and less DACs (except the 1989 Stax DAC referenced...long in the tooth these days).  He needs to get out and sample the latest things to really know what is going on.  I find most reviews these days worthless.  There is no comparison between the latest best possible things in their price range, not to mention higher priced things.  How do we know anything from such reviews?  What about the Yggy, the Nuprime, (the brand new latest DACs using the new set of ESS 9028/9038 DAC chips: Exasound, Resonessence, Mytek, LKS, about to be released Oppo and Gustard), the Vega, the Holo Audio Spring, Metrum, The T+A, the Lampizator Atlantic, the PS Audio Direct Stream junior and senior, Modwright, etc.   And then there is the big Guns: Ayre's latest (with new ESS DAC chip), big Lampy, Bricasti, MSB, TotalDAC, Dave Chord, Berkeley Reference II, Empirical Audio mods, Playback Designs new DAC, the latest Meitner DA-2, DCS, Audionote, Aries Cerat, Trinity DAC, etc.  BTW, the Nuprime, Gustard, and Oppo are all under $2000.   

Here is a link to a preview of a review of one of the new Resonessence DACs using the new ESS 9028 DAC chip.....it describes why the new chip sounds better: http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/resonessence/2.html    Very interesting stuff!

Benchmark has just released new DACs using the 9028.  The cheapest one being $1900 with one 9028.....the Gustard will have two 9028s in dual mono mode for $900 delivered to your door.  Here is some more info on how the 9028 performs compared to the old 9018:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/dac3-introducing-the-new-es9028pro-converter

 

[AmpDesigner333]

So does the DAC DAC use extra bits for volume control?

The DAC DAC simply converts the digital input to analog with resolution of 24 bits.  Using a digital attenuator is done BEFORE the DAC by scaling (a numeric multiplication operation) the data.  For reference, at 24 bits, you still have 16 active bits at -48dB down (very low volume).  Note that very high dynamic range is required for digital attenuation to work well.  Also note that direct connection from the DAC to the amplifiers (without analog volume control) will result in less equipment, less noise, and less distortion.  Skipping over the preamp means a shorter signal path and cleaner sound.   Thanks.

[AmpDesigner333]

The DAC DAC has no volume control. 

I described how to make an extremely seriously transparent volume control balanced.  I will say it again.  You use a fixed resistor (nude Vishay) in series with each IV converter out.  Then, with a switch, you switch .1% resistors between the phases (on the output of the resistors).....then you go to a buffer on each phase and then out.  The most transparent volume control in the world?  Well, you could use LDRs like what Tortuga does for a smidge better sound.  But we are up there in the top 2% anyway. 

In my opinion....

....Very interesting stuff!

The methods you describe still hurt CMRR and result in a longer signal path.  We're going DC coupled and double differential with the outputs.  We use more precise components than you're mentioning here, which is more expensive, but explains the great results (sound) the DAC DAC achieves.   The HS version provides the highest bench performance and clarity while the TL version provides tube sound without the downside of added noise.  We're interested in the top 0.1% as opposed to the top 2%.  Unless you're strapped for cash, buy a DAC DAC and see/hear the difference our design philosophy provides in your system.  Thanks for your detailed post.