[tkp]

I have been breaking in and playing with the Incredarray positioning for about three weeks now.  Finally, I figured out exactly how to set them up properly and it turned out exactly what I was hoping for.  

From the picture I posted at my gallery, you can see that I have very little room to wiggle.  The best setup for WAF is to have the speakers as close as possible to the entertainment center cabinet and push back.  The Incredarray crossover was designed for no toe in at all and with the listening position approximately 10 ft way, the best space between the speakers is about 6ft (The width of the entertainment center is 5 ft 7 inches, talk about luck).  

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=233

Any way, I did critical listening of all the CDs that I have for about two days over the Thanksgiving break.  I have been using the same CDs on the RM40s for the past 2.5 years so I intimately know how these CDs sounded on the RM40.  For reference, my pair of RM40 has the original tweeter and has the TRT cap upgrade option (I still have the RM40 in another room).

With the Incredarray, I got the following:

a) A wall of sound.

b) Well balance from top to bottom.

c) Body in the midrange especially for male vocal.

d) Well impact mid-bass.

e) Deep, tight and true low bass.   I have a test CD which has a low bass track.  When I played this CD, I don’t hear the bass any more but feel it.  I had to turn the volume down because the walls of my house were vibrating and my wife screamed at me to turn the “darn thing” off before the house collapse.  I got decent bass on the RM40 but not the low bass like the Incredarray produced.

f) Very focus human voice with wide sweet spot.


Compare to the Incredarray, the RM40 has the following pros and cons:

Pros:

a)  The midrange can be tuned to a razor focus and I must say some time better than the recording itself.  This means the midrange can be set to suit listener's taste.  This does not neccesarily mean true to the source.

b)  The lack of body in the midrange actually gives it an edge over the Incredarray on some recording because some instruments stood out a bit better.  Once again, this is not necessarily reflecting the source.

Cons:
a)  Narrow sweet spot and placement is much more difficult than the Incredarray.  I had to toe them in excessively to get that razor focus midrange.

b)  The high is not as extended and not as sweet.

c) Mid-bass pretty average for this caliber of speakers.  In fact, my marble 9.0 has better mid-bass.  The sonic director recommended by John Casler helped but not enough.

d)  The midrange is thin and human vocals lacked body especially for male vocal.

e)  Bass is fairly average for speaker this size.

I am very pleased with the result and for the money the Incredarray should be better than the RM40.  The next question is how the Incredarray compares to the RMX.  I listened to the RMX extensively at my friend’s house before deciding on the Incredarray.  My impression at the time was that the RMX sounded very similar to the RM40 with the following benefit.

1)  Solid and heavy cabinet which translate to virtually no cabinet vibration at all.  This is one area the RMX beats the Incredarray.  The Incredarray cabinet has very good bracing but it is not as heavy as the RMX (300 lbs vs 375 lbs).  When Xi-Trum and I listened to the RMX, we both recognize the lack of cabinet noise and vibration.  

2)  The FST tweeter help the high match the Incredarray in extension and sweetness.  However, the sweet spot is still very narrow comparing to the Incredarray.

I intend to let the Incredarray breaking in for the next four weeks and will plan to stop by my friend's place during this time for extended listening sessions on the RMX.  Ideally, I would love to listen to both speaker side-by-side for accurate comparison but their size and weight prevent this from happening.  I will write an official opinion of the Incredarray in four weeks.  I don’t want to call it a review because it is really my opinion only and nothing more.  

Xi-trum plan to stop by my house this weekend to check out the Incredarray and hopefully he will post his “opinion”.

Is the Incredarray perfect?  Ofcourse not .  I found one minor thing so far that I am not sure if it is real yet.  I need more time to confirm this potential weakness and I will post them in my official opinion .

[JoshK]

very cool, thanks tkp.   By the way were your assessments done with the speakers that far back against the wall?  Its impressive that you get imaging like that.   I am not dismissing it, its impressive.

[jackman]

Congrats!  Your speakers look amazing.  Hopefully, I will have a chance to hear a pair in the Chicago area one of these days.  I'm with Josh on the placement.  If they can project a deep image while being placed that close to the rear wall, they must be something.

Best of luck!  On second thought, you are already pretty lucky!

J

[tkp]

very cool, thanks tkp.   By the way were your assessments done with the speakers that far back against the wall?  Its impressive that you get imaging like that.   I am not dismissing it, its impressive.

JoshK,

My assestment was with the speaker back almost against the wall.  As you can see, the back of one speaker is open to another room and the back of the other speaker is about 6" from the wall.  The baffle of the speakers is about two inches beyond the entertainment cabinet.  They had excellent image compare to all the speakers I owned before.  If I pull them out about a foot forward, they disappeared completely.  The only problem is I have to move my couch back about a foot and it is a no no because the area behind the couch is the breakfast area.  I probably take picture of the room so people have an idea the enviroment these speakers are in.  It is basically, the first floor of my house so I am not supprised that the RM40 cannot put out decent bass in this large area.

[tkp]

Congrats!  Your speakers look amazing.  Hopefully, I will have a chance to hear a pair in the Chicago area one of these days.  I'm with Josh on the placement.  If they can project a deep image while being placed that close to the rear wall, they must be something.

Best of luck!  On second thought, you are already pretty lucky!

J

Jackman,

More than any one else, I was very suprised they can put out excellent image setting up like this.  When I first set them up, I toed them in like the way I setup the RM40s because I kept thinking to get good image with the large entertainment center in between, I need to toe them in.  After about a week of placement experiment and several emails to Rick asking what is going on because I kept getting a bit too much high and not enough midrange on some recording. It finally dawned on me that I have one more placement to try and that is to point them straigth out.  Once I pointed them out straight, every thing fell into place.  

I recalled asking Rick to come up with crossover modification for my pair to tame the high a bit.  Rick was going to calculate the values and provide me with a few value of resistors to try.  Well, I emailed Rick later in the week telling him that it is not neccessary to give me new values.  That when Rick told me that he designed the crossover for no toe in at all !!!

I would love to pull them out further into the room but I probably facing dirvoce .  Hopefully, I can find out how great they are in an optimal environment some day.  For now, they are the perfect speakers for me because this is the first speakers that actually sounded good in my house setting up this way.

And you are right that I am pretty lucky to still married after I built the Incredarray .

[tkp]

I just put pictures of the rooms on the first floor of my house in the gallery to give an idea what environments both the RM40s and the Incredarray has to deal with.  I think to get decent low bass in this environment, dual power subwoofers is a must have.  Since I don't have any where to put power subwoofers, the Incredarray is the only full range speakers that could give me what I was looking for.  The RMX has the razor focus midrange but I honestly don't see how it can put out good low bass in this environment.

Even if I have place for subwoofers, I am not too confident that I can integrate them correctly with tower speakers for smooth sound.  The Incredarray attracted me because of its potential full range sound for both music and HT.  The dual active 12" woofers were designed in with the line array from the begining for smooth transition between crossover point and not an after thought.

[StevenACNJ]

Beautiful looking speakers - Wow!

[Bingenito]

Nice house! Looks like Maple was an easy choice for the arrays.

I also own the Incredarrays and have played around with placement for a few months.

At one point I removed most of my furniture in my living room and brought the speakers 6ft out into the room (baffle to back wall measurement). For 3 days I adjusted the width and depth of the placement. I found that the Incredarrays image just as well with the baffles 6ft out into the room as they do 3.5-4ft. Since the speakers are 22" deep at the base I have them 21" from the back wall and 2-2.5 ft from the side wall.

They image so well people have asked if my rear speakers were on because images just float around the room.

I would imagine that the imaging would be even better if my room was twice as wide but that is an upgrade that will have to wait for now.

Vocals are down right scary on these arrays. On a good recording they will give you goose bumps. They do everything else equally well but most speakers I have heard just never sound right on vocals.

[JoshK]

tkp.  thanks for the answer, good to know.

[Rick Craig]

very cool, thanks tkp.   By the way were your assessments done with the speakers that far back against the wall?  Its impressive that you get imaging like that.   I am not dismissing it, its impressive.

With the cylindrical wavefront that an array has the proper image depth can be created without having to place the speakers far away from the rear wall. The depth is also affected by the crossover and frequency response, probably to a greater extent than speaker placement.

Obviously I need to get a pair up in NYC  

[tkp]

[quote="Rick Craig

Obviously I need to get a pair up in NYC  [/quote]

Hey,

This is not fair.  I did not get a chance to listen to the Incredarray prior to build them.  Buying expensive speaker unheard is new to me.  On top of that, I had to build the thing from the kit so I can get the cabinet the way I wanted.  The Incredarray was the first speaker kit for me !!!

Luckily the result came out as I was hoping for.  I was/am very supprised how the line array load the room so differently than the typical speakers.  I am still working on finding weaknesses on the Incredarray.  I know they are there.  It might take me a few years but be assured that I will find them .

The amazing thing is that I moved the RM40 into the kit game room and my wife did not say any thing yet.  I think it is her way of saying that she accepted the Incredarray.  Now, I can listen to a killer system in the family room and a great system in the kit game room.  The only thing left for me to do is to buy a new house to optimally set up the Incredarray .

[JoshK]

Well my listening room is pretty decent sized, particularly for NYC.  Not huge but the fact that my side walls are far away from the speakers, the ceiling is 12', the speakers can be out 4-5' from the front wall and I sit a good 7' from the rear wall the normal wall reflections are a bit different that many rooms.  

I'd be willing to host a NYC demo of your Incredarrays if you want to use my house as the showroom.

[Rick Craig]

Well my listening room is pretty decent sized, particularly for NYC.  Not huge but the fact that my side walls are far away from the speakers, the ceiling is 12', the speakers can be out 4-5' from the front wall and I sit a good 7' from the rear wall the normal wall reflections are a bit different that many rooms.  

I'd be willing to host a NYC demo of your Incredarrays if you want to use my house as the showroom.

Actually I'll have a demo pair of a new model if you're interested. I have the cabinets and drivers but have been really busy with other projects so I've not been able to complete the design.

Next week I'll have some pictures of the new XT8 in bloodwood veneer. This is a larger version of the Xarray with eight woofers and eight ribbons per side in a curved back cabinet.

[zybar]

I would love to hear your speakers Rick.

There would be standing room only at Josh's place for that session.

George

[Rick Craig]

I would love to hear your speakers Rick.

There would be standing room only at Josh's place for that session.

George

My wife wants to see a Broadway show so maybe we could make a long weekend trip up there sometime. So which of you guys has the best listening room ?  

[JoshK]

George probably has the best listening room but he is all the way up state.  

[zybar]

George probably has the best listening room but he is all the way up state.  

Thanks Josh.

Rick, I have a dedicated room that is 25x18x7 (basement) with lots of room treatment.

I am about 1 hour directly north of NYC in the burbs.

The good news is that I am only 5 minutes from the train (Harlem line).

George

[lonewolfny42]

If you were looking for a Manhattan location....how about Daniel's room ? That's a nice size.......

[Mad DOg]

Rick,

if your new line array is as good as you say they are and you decides to send them out west first, they might not make it back out to the east!    

[jermmd]

I can't believe no one has commented on the superior bass compared to the RM40's  That is amazing.  I'm sure their placement up against the front (rear?) wall contributes but wow.  I think George has said his RM40's are flat to 22hz.  I would love to hear these speakers and George's house is much closer than the city for me.

Joe M.