New OB Contender

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FullRangeMan

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New OB Contender
« on: 21 Sep 2016, 06:31 am »
Seems there is other 15 inches driver souited to OB in Eminence line:
http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-red-coat-big-ben-15-guitar-speaker-225w-8-ohm--290-860

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-860--eminence-red-coat-big-ben-specifications.pdf
Looks even better than Alpha15A:
-Overall sensitivity is 101.3dB
-On OB range til 300Hz sensitivity around 98dB, greater Alpha
-price $110
-QTS 0.94 lesss extreme than Alpha
Big Ben Red Coat 15 inches
Nominal Basket Diameter 15.0'' / 381mm
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Power Rating 225W
Usable Freq Range 70Hz - 3.5LHz
Sensitivity 101,3dB
Magnet Weight 56 oz.
Gap Height .375'' 9,5mm
VC Diameter 2.5'' - 64mm
Thiele & Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (fs) 85 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 6.06 Ω
Coil Inductance (Le) 0.51m H
Mechanical Q (Qms) 10.63
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)  1.04
Total Q (Qts) 0.94
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 77.7 liters / 2.74 cu.ft.
Peak Diaphragm Displacement Volume (Vd) 0 cc
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.08 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 12.1 T-M
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (MMs) 47 grams
Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP) 82
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) ? mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 856.3 cm2
Maximum Mechanical Limit (Xlim) N/A
Contruction
Copper VC
Polyimide Former
Non Vented Core
Pressed Basket Steel
Paper Cone
Zurette Dust Cap
« Last Edit: 13 Sep 2017, 12:28 pm by FullRangeMan »

nicoch

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Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #1 on: 21 Sep 2016, 06:35 am »
nope unlucky Fs only 85hz......

Russell Dawkins

Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #2 on: 21 Sep 2016, 06:38 am »
Pretty small max linear excursion, too.  :?

"...somewhat throaty tone..." hmmm—could that be connected with the 10 dB peak at 2kHz?





FullRangeMan

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Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #3 on: 21 Sep 2016, 06:49 am »
Pretty small max linear excursion, too.  :?

"...somewhat throaty tone..." hmmm—could that be connected with the 10 dB peak at 2kHz?



How much is Mms?
I could not found this value.
OB use is under 300Hz only, peak will be attenuated by xover.

Russell Dawkins

Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #4 on: 21 Sep 2016, 07:31 am »
Seems there is other 15 inches driver souited to OB in Eminence line:
http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-red-coat-big-ben-15-guitar-speaker-225w-8-ohm--290-860

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-860--eminence-red-coat-big-ben-specifications.pdf
Looks even better than Alpha15A:
-Overall sensitivity is 101.3dB
-On OB range til 300Hz sensitivity around 98dB, greater Alpha
-price $110
-QTS 0.94 lesss extreme than Alpha
Big Ben Red Coat 15 inches
Nominal Basket Diameter 15.0'' / 381mm
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Power Rating 225W
Usable Freq Range 70Hz - 3.5LHz
Sensitivity 101,3dB
Magnet Weight 56 oz.
Gap Height .375'' 9,5mm
VC Diameter 2.5'' - 64mm
Thiele & Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (fs) 85 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 6.06 Ω
Coil Inductance (Le) 0.51m H
Mechanical Q (Qms) 10.63
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)  1.04
Total Q (Qts) 0.94
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 77.7 liters / 2.74 cu.ft.
Peak Diaphragm Displacement Volume (Vd) 0 cc
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.08 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 12.1 T-M
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (MMs) 47 grams
Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP) 82
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 1 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 856.3 cm2
Maximum Mechanical Limit (Xlim) N/A
Contruction
Copper VC
Polyimide Former
Non Vented Core
Pressed Basket Steel
Paper Cone
Zurette Dust Cap

"How much is Mms?
I could not found this value. "

According to the specs you posted, MMs is 47 grams, but I was talking about xmax and associated Vd (in maroon, above).
I'm sure xmax is more than zero, but this driver still does not seem to be destined for successful use as an OB woofer. As nicoch pointed out, fs is 85Hz. :scratch:


FullRangeMan

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Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #5 on: 21 Sep 2016, 07:37 am »
"How much is Mms?
I could not found this value. "

According to the specs you posted, MMs is 47 grams, but I was talking about xmax and associated Vd (in maroon, above).
I'm sure xmax is more than zero, but this driver still does not seem to be destined for successful use as an OB woofer. As nicoch pointed out, fs is 85Hz. :scratch:
My mistake I mean say Xmax. Which is not 1mm as you put in my post, I dont posted Xmax as 1MM.
I could not found this value, It was sent to me as 0mm, that is as N/A.

nicoch

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Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #6 on: 21 Sep 2016, 10:39 am »
is for guitar ,must have non linear ex.....

matevana

Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #7 on: 21 Sep 2016, 11:23 am »
The Eminence Patriot, Legend and Redcoat series are all guitar drivers that are specifically voiced for guitar and usually far from flat (intentionally) to bring-out the characteristics that guitarists find desirable. The Alpha drivers are part of their pro-audio line, where a more linear response is targeted.

Big Ben, with it's less than 1 mm of linear excursion, would not likely be a good LF driver for OB.I have tried playing bass guitar through a Big Ben cabinet and the driver is easily stressed. The lowest bass guitar notes are still higher than many frequencies in recorded music.

The primary frequency of the low E string on guitar is around 82 Hz. A 15" driver with 1 mm of xmax would accommodate that at reasonable volume.

FullRangeMan

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Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #8 on: 21 Sep 2016, 07:45 pm »
Oh too bad.

matevana

Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #9 on: 23 Sep 2016, 04:32 pm »
Oh too bad.

FullRangeMan,

I was able to borrow a Big Ben for the day and mounted it on a 20" wide baffle to test. It behaved better than I thought it might, provided you don't exceed moderate volume. I was not real happy with the sound using a single inductor 1st order electrical low pass. Since it's fairly efficient, I decided to try a 2nd order slope. Using a 15 mH coil and a 47 uf cap, it did provide a decent bottom end to a small 3" full range driver (Seas FU10) and sounded very full and warm with my push-pull tube amp. I suppose if you wanted to go crazy and use two per side, you would get a bit more output as well. I just think there are better choices out there for OB.   

FullRangeMan

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Re: New OB Contender: Big Ben 15''
« Reply #10 on: 23 Sep 2016, 05:06 pm »
Thankyou Matevana for your first hand report, I appreciated :thumb:

FullRangeMan

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Re: New OB Contender
« Reply #11 on: 13 Sep 2017, 12:42 pm »
Have just located this nice pair 15'' woofers made by Eminence to PAP, just like yours older similar brother from ToneTubby for e-bass named Superman.
Superman:
https://tonetubby.com/product/super-man-bass-15-neo/
PAP Ferrite:

PAP NEO:

PAP have a friendly QTS to OB, different from the Superman which is voiced to BR or BVR, site show prices NEO model $399 per pair shiped from Iowa:
http://www.pureaudioproject.com/product/15inch-open-baffle-bass-woofers/