The Search for Yesterday's SOTA

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bdp24

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #20 on: 17 Aug 2016, 06:46 am »
SOTA... not much talk about it in the thread so far...

These are helpful perhaps?
Stereophile currently lists the Music Reference RM-200 Mk.2 power amp (designed and built by Roger Modjeski) in their Class A/Tube category, and it retails for a little over $5k I believe. I picked up mine through Audiogon for $2500. Very nice amp. My EAR-Yoshino 868L tube line stage (designed by Tim Paravicini) retails for about $6k, got in through U.S. Audiomart for $2750. Both close enough to SOTA for me, at relatively affordable prices. Leaves more money for music!

Folsom

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #21 on: 17 Aug 2016, 08:21 am »
Score!

How about some Halcro's? YG Speakers. Not cheap, until you consider the original price tags.

S Clark

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #22 on: 17 Aug 2016, 12:45 pm »
Stereophile currently lists the Music Reference RM-200 Mk.2 power amp (designed and built by Roger Modjeski) in their Class A/Tube category, and it retails for a little over $5k I believe. I picked up mine through Audiogon for $2500. Very nice amp. My EAR-Yoshino 868L tube line stage (designed by Tim Paravicini) retails for about $6k, got in through U.S. Audiomart for $2750. Both close enough to SOTA for me, at relatively affordable prices. Leaves more money for music!
Nicely done. 

OzarkTom

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #23 on: 17 Aug 2016, 07:36 pm »
Anyone here looking for IRS? $9500

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/clt/5701515084.html

Danny Richie

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #24 on: 17 Aug 2016, 09:37 pm »
Anyone here looking for IRS? $9500

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/clt/5701515084.html

I had a pair of those here for a while. They had some issues. I designed a complete upgrade for them that corrected the issues and upgraded the crossovers, wire, and connectors considerably.

LesterSleepsIn

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #25 on: 17 Aug 2016, 11:28 pm »
Anyone here looking for IRS? $9500

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/clt/5701515084.html

Wow, advertised as  "one owner" and he put them from a man in CA. Doesn't that make them owned by two owners?

bdp24

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #26 on: 18 Aug 2016, 07:24 am »
I had a pair of those here for a while. They had some issues. I designed a complete upgrade for them that corrected the issues and upgraded the crossovers, wire, and connectors considerably.
I had a pair of the IRS "juniors", named the Infinity Reference Standard (that's where the "IRS" stands for) RS-1b. It was a 5' tall servo-feedback bass cabinet (containing six 8" woofers) per side, with a pair of a smaller version (5' tall by about 2' wide) of the curved-open baffle/wing with EMIM and EMIT planar midrange and tweeter drivers in the baffles middle. Same drivers as in the IRS, just fewer of them. The RS-1b was a good loudspeaker for it's time, but a pair of GR Research OB/Dipole Subs and a pair of contemporary planar speakers (I have Quad ESL's and Eminent Technology LFT-8b's, similar to Magenplanars but superior, having a push/pull magnetic-planar driver (covering 180Hz-10kHz without a x/o!) and a ribbon tweeter (for above 10k) are much, much better.

Russell Dawkins

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #27 on: 18 Aug 2016, 09:39 am »
Wow, advertised as  "one owner" and he put them from a man in CA. Doesn't that make them owned by two owners?
I interpret this as he bought them cheap from some old guy and he's 'flipping' them, as they say in real estate. They haven't been in his hands long enough for him to consider himself an 'owner'.

ctviggen

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #28 on: 18 Aug 2016, 11:24 am »
OK, I give.  Call me acronym-challenged.  I think "SO" = Single Owner.  What's "TA"? 

murphy11

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #29 on: 18 Aug 2016, 11:43 am »
State of the art. Bugged me for days then it kind of came to me. I'm pretty good at wheel of fortune.

bummrush

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #30 on: 18 Aug 2016, 05:21 pm »
This goes back a while but early 90's was when i started to get back into audio,after marriage, kids etc. But middle 90's i stated lookig at Counterpoint, Legacy aka Coda,Arcam. Stuff i coundnt afford.  But 10 yrs ago iwas able to pull plug onthat stuff,which thank god has all stood thetest of time All bought used or b stock. Its like gear would of been 6,7 k,was all in my price range. Counterpoint amp, $300,bstok Coda $1000,Clements  207 di $ 600,used $100 and i like it like it was 10 yrs ag. Along with used Atoll cd player, at $700,new $1500 or 1600.

ctviggen

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #31 on: 18 Aug 2016, 06:11 pm »
State of the art. Bugged me for days then it kind of came to me. I'm pretty good at wheel of fortune.

Thanks.  I even did a search for SOTA and didn't get "state of the art".

I'm usually several generations back, and avoid buying cutting-edge technology.  Except when it comes to phones, when they seem to get faster with every generation.  Amps and other similar technology don't seem to change that much.  Heck, I'm using tubes, which if anything are "ancient" (although perhaps the circuits used to drive them are newer and better).

Norman Tracy

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #32 on: 18 Aug 2016, 08:21 pm »
One point to make about the deal one gets with several year old gear. The life span of electronics like pre-amps and power amps is 20-25 years. The electrolytic caps dry out and after a couple of decades they need to be replaced with fresh ones. What we call ripple current that flows thru caps drives this process. So caps in a speaker crossover can last longer, a power amp not as long. Much will depend on how conservative the designer was and the voltages involved. Like classic cars and boats there comes a time to decide if that 'classic' is worth the labor and parts cost of a refresh.

I mention this because I have been watching my best audiophile buddy grapple with his Audio Research SP-6 preamp and M-100 monoblocks getting noisy and start taking out fuses and tubes. A thousand dollars would put them right. A great deal compared to the cost of new ARC electronics. A real issue compared to a retiree's fixed income.

bdp24

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #33 on: 19 Aug 2016, 02:16 am »
Excellent point Tracy. I used to own an SP-6 and an SP-3 before that, as well as D-75 and D-51 power amps, and still have an LS-1 line stage (for my Stax ESL headphones, and the LS-1's "Mode" switch---Stereo/Reverse/Mono/Left/Right). ARC products are known to have somewhat high maintenance costs, a result of the high voltages the tubes are run at. That, plus, the power tubes are not fused---when a tube shorts, it often takes out at least a resistor, sometimes more of the surrounding circuit. They have even been known to burst into flames! And the amps circuits are traces on circuit boards, rather than point-to-point wired as are Music Reference amps. The ARC tubes sit in sockets built right into the boards, a very bad idea as the heat from the tubes scorch the boards over time. Rather than needing to replace the bad tube and it's fuse, ARC amps often require an actual repair when a tube fails. I would NEVER own another ARC power amp, I don't care how good it sounds. Roger Modjeski puts a fuse on every power tube in every one of his Music Reference amps, and runs them conservatively, the tubes lasting up to 10,000 hours. He also winds his own output transformers, and hand-builds every amp himself. And they are much more reasonably priced than ARC. Roger says he builds them to last a hundred---a hundred!---years. Heirloom products, highly recommended. Lately he has been designing lower output amps (single-ended, push-pull, triode, pentode, you name it), designed of course for higher sensitivity loudspeakers. They should be a match made in Heaven for Danny's designs!

Early B.

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #34 on: 19 Aug 2016, 02:31 am »
Like classic cars and boats there comes a time to decide if that 'classic' is worth the labor and parts cost of a refresh.

I mention this because I have been watching my best audiophile buddy grapple with his Audio Research SP-6 preamp and M-100 monoblocks getting noisy and start taking out fuses and tubes. A thousand dollars would put them right. A great deal compared to the cost of new ARC electronics. A real issue compared to a retiree's fixed income.

Your friend would probably be better off if he sold his Audio Research gear, added $1,000 to it, and bought "yesterday's SOTA" components mentioned here as opposed to replacing them with newer, but high priced ARC electronics.

ACHiPo

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #35 on: 19 Aug 2016, 03:21 am »
SOTA... not much talk about it in the thread so far...

These are helpful perhaps?
The Rowland Consummate I mentioned were class A for many years.  The WTT reference also made class A I think at one point. Pretty sure the Infinity speakers were up there as well.

OzarkTom

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #36 on: 20 Aug 2016, 03:10 pm »
Quote
Vu Huang, proprietor of DejaVu Audio has a wild card up his sleeve from Italy by the name of Aldo D'Urso. Many times we hear of vintage gear updated with all the latest caps, resistors, etc., but Vu and Aldo don't care for the sound of these new parts, and instead search out components, horns, drivers, and enclosures from the pre-war era.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Capital_Audiofest_2016/DejaVu_Audio_Aldo_D_Urso/index.html

S Clark

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #37 on: 20 Aug 2016, 03:33 pm »
Now that's a different take on the topic.  When I started the thread, it was about taking advantage of our hobby's tendency to hype the latest and greatest... only to sell it at discount 4-5 years later.  Deja Vu Audio are taking vintage tech, repackaging, and selling nostalgia for big prices (the gear in his display room totaled ~$140K). It's basically the opposite of what I suggested was the best bang for the buck in the hobby-- but to each his own.
Now if you really like vintage sound, I've got a 1962 Eico ST 70 amp I'll make you a helluva deal on.  That's pretty close to the beginning of stereo. 

OzarkTom

Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #38 on: 20 Aug 2016, 05:10 pm »
The original Zellaton driver design is from 1932, SOTA today. Japanese audiophiles are big on Zellaton.

Japan also still buys the 40's-50's Western Electric amps and drivers for big bucks. SOTA 50-60 years ago is still SOTA today.

S Clark

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Re: The Search for Yesterday's SOTA
« Reply #39 on: 20 Aug 2016, 05:30 pm »
SOTA 50-60 years ago is still SOTA today.
You might be right, but pardon my scepticism.