AudioCircle

Other Stuff => Archived Circles => Hypex Owners Circle => Topic started by: OzarkTom on 20 Jan 2013, 06:18 am

Title: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: OzarkTom on 20 Jan 2013, 06:18 am
Stereotimes iistener says the Mola-Mola amps almost came up to the sound of the $55K Swiss made Solution 700 mono amps. That is not too shabby.

http://www.stereotimes.com/commGTTAudio.shtml
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 20 Jan 2013, 07:13 am
Very cool to see the Ncore once again aquit itself against more expensive stuff, this time a lot lot lot lot more expensive, and in print.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: mjosef on 20 Jan 2013, 10:29 pm
Mola Mola certainly didn't make it easy to audition them @ CES, they had them showcased over at the Mirage in some secret room, I tried to find the room but after 10minutes gave up and went over to The Show.  :roll:
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: OzarkTom on 20 Jan 2013, 10:39 pm
I went to Mola-Mola's website last night. They are working on the website still, but there has been a change in the looks of it.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 21 Jan 2013, 12:15 am
They do look really nice in the photo's. I wonder if any of the gentlemen running other forms of NC1200 right now are thinking of going Mola Mola, with that preamp? In the paragraph there it said there would be an optional phono input as well.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: hifial on 21 Jan 2013, 05:50 am
Rclark

I own a pair of Veritas by Merrill Audio (and for the pains in the *** NO, I HAVE NO FINANCIAL INTEREST OR COMPENSATION WITH MERRILL AUDIO, WE ARE IN THE SAME AUDIO CLUB WITH 70 OTHERS). Even though I own the Veritas I have thought about buying the Mola-Mola when it came out. However at around $15,000, it is over 65% more expansive then the Veritas. So for me the Mola-Mola would have to not just sound a little better but A LOT BETTER then the Veritas. Now if the Mola-Mola were to sound SO MUCH BETTER, well now I would have to start saving my pennies. But I do not expect that as the Veritas is an exceptional sounding amp based on the same tech. So I expect the two amps to be close in sound quality. Regardless I plan on hearing the Mola-Mola ha ha, as you never know untill you check it out for yourself.   
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Jan 2013, 05:57 am
Stereotimes iistener says the Mola-Mola amps almost came up to the sound of the $55K Swiss made Solution 700 mono amps. That is not too shabby.

http://www.stereotimes.com/commGTTAudio.shtml

Has stereotimes.com's CP ever posted a negative review?
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Regnad on 21 Jan 2013, 06:04 am
Rclark

I own a pair of Veritas by Merrill Audio (and for the pains in the *** NO, I HAVE NO FINANCIAL INTEREST OR COMPENSATION WITH MERRILL AUDIO, WE ARE IN THE SAME AUDIO CLUB WITH 70 OTHERS). Even though I own the Veritas I have thought about buying the Mola-Mola when it came out. However at around $15,000, it is over 65% more expansive then the Veritas. So for me the Mola-Mola would have to not just sound a little better but A LOT BETTER then the Veritas. Now if the Mola-Mola were to sound SO MUCH BETTER, well now I would have to start saving my pennies. But I do not expect that as the Veritas is an exceptional sounding amp based on the same tech. So I expect the two amps to be close in sound quality. Regardless I plan on hearing the Mola-Mola ha ha, as you never know untill you check it out for yourself.

Wouldn't you like to hear the preamp?  I also have Veritas amps and wonder what that preamp is like.   What is known about it?
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: hifial on 21 Jan 2013, 06:29 am
Regnad

Not anymore as I play my source direct to amp and I like the way it sounds that way. I use a PS Audio PerfectWave MK II DAC and it sounds great. Be that as it may, I am selling my PSA DAC and if anybody has an interest PM. In the future I will still play direct. I feel in the right setup there is no need for a preamp.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: gman on 16 Apr 2013, 02:11 am
Rclark

I own a pair of Veritas by Merrill Audio (and for the pains in the *** NO, I HAVE NO FINANCIAL INTEREST OR COMPENSATION WITH MERRILL AUDIO, WE ARE IN THE SAME AUDIO CLUB WITH 70 OTHERS). Even though I own the Veritas I have thought about buying the Mola-Mola when it came out. However at around $15,000, it is over 65% more expansive then the Veritas. So for me the Mola-Mola would have to not just sound a little better but A LOT BETTER then the Veritas. Now if the Mola-Mola were to sound SO MUCH BETTER, well now I would have to start saving my pennies. But I do not expect that as the Veritas is an exceptional sounding amp based on the same tech. So I expect the two amps to be close in sound quality. Regardless I plan on hearing the Mola-Mola ha ha, as you never know untill you check it out for yourself.

Rclark, can you tell me what the price of the Veritas monoblocks are?

On the Merrill Audio website, it appears the Veritas monoblocks are priced at $12,000 per pair. And if the Mola-Molas are $15,000 per pair, that's much less than 65% more expensive.

Thanks
Gary
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Apr 2013, 03:11 am
Stereotimes iistener says the Mola-Mola amps almost came up to the sound of the $55K Swiss made Solution 700 mono amps...

http://www.stereotimes.com/commGTTAudio.shtml (http://www.stereotimes.com/commGTTAudio.shtml)

Last paragraph from link above:
Quote
...Unfortunately, the illusion of the Mola Mola sounding as magnificent as the big Soulution gear didn't happen. I was somewhat surprised at how much better the Soulution rendered high-frequency resolution in particular. Cymbals had a fabric that was much closer to the real thing...

(emphasis added)

I'm not at all surprised when something outperforms something else 1/5 the cost.   
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 16 Apr 2013, 06:47 am
I'm not at all surprised when something outperforms something else 1/5 the cost.

Especially when listening with your eyes open and the price tag in your head...
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 16 Apr 2013, 02:53 pm
Especially when listening with your eyes open and the price tag in your head...

Right, because the Ncore fanboys are completely objective and impervious to hype or gaudy cnc'd audio jewelry.  I can't wait for the usual suspects to attack anyone who posts less than glowingly favorable comments about the Mola Mola. 
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Apr 2013, 03:46 pm
Has stereotimes.com's CP ever posted a negative review?

ST owner/author listened to a lot of YG Acoustics speakers in the images.  I guess his little feud with Yoav is over, thank goodness. 

My wife will never fall in love with the sound again unless I get tube amps.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Apr 2013, 03:54 pm
Very cool to see the Ncore once again aquit itself against more expensive stuff, this time a lot lot lot lot more expensive, and in print.

Last paragraph from the comments to which you apparently refer.  I disagree with your characterization.  Maybe you read something I missed.  No big deal, just thought I'd mention it for those that did not read the link.  Did you read the link or not? 

Quote
...Unfortunately, the illusion of the Mola Mola sounding as magnificent as the big Soulution gear didn't happen. I was somewhat surprised at how much better the Soulution rendered high-frequency resolution in particular. Cymbals had a fabric that was much closer to the real thing...
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 17 Apr 2013, 12:06 pm
Right, because the Ncore fanboys are completely objective and impervious to hype or gaudy cnc'd audio jewelry.  I can't wait for the usual suspects to attack anyone who posts less than glowingly favorable comments about the Mola Mola.

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with either ncore or Mola Mola, it was purely a reflection on subjective "reviews" in general.

Anyway, your comment is an interesting example of a pre-emptive ad hominem attack. Are you saying that you have run out of fact-based and reasonable arguments before the discussion has even started, and thus feel the need to attack any prospective comments in advance?
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 17 Apr 2013, 12:41 pm
My comment had absolutely nothing to do with either ncore or Mola Mola, it was purely a reflection on subjective "reviews" in general.

Anyway, your comment is an interesting example of a pre-emptive ad hominem attack. Are you saying that you have run out of fact-based and reasonable arguments before the discussion has even started, and thus feel the need to attack any prospective comments in advance?

Julf,

Come on, I was just having some fun.  I'm aware of the affect price and appearance have on subjective perception.  Perhaps that's the reason several of the Ncore "repackagers" use exotic cases and jack the price up to exotic levels. 

I'm just waiting for some of the Ncore loyalists to write off the recent preference of the Soulution amps as a product of high-price and casework- related perception.  When the ncores are preferred to another amp, it's because they are a superior design ( obviously) ... when a more expensive amp is preferred, it is merely a case of perception bias related to the stratospheric price and exotic appearance of the other amp.  Very convenient. 

Cheers

Jack
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 17 Apr 2013, 02:02 pm
Come on, I was just having some fun.

Fair enough - my apologies for my excessively negative reaction.

Quote
When the ncores are preferred to another amp, it's because they are a superior design ( obviously) ... when a more expensive amp is preferred, it is merely a case of perception bias related to the stratospheric price and exotic appearance of the other amp.  Very convenient. 

Indeed. Audiophiles remain audiophiles, even when they are hypex fanboys :)
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: hifial on 17 Apr 2013, 04:35 pm

"At many times the asking price, the Soulutions are among the most expensive solid-state electronics I know of. They are also among the best I have heard. The Mola Mola more than acquits itself by way of their spatial beauty and unabashed openness.

This folks is Class D at its best. Unfortunately, the illusion of the Mola Mola sounding as magnificent as the big Soulution gear didn't happen. I was somewhat surprised at how much better the Soulution rendered high-frequency resolution in particular. Cymbals had a fabric that was much closer to the real thing. I was not however embarrassed to think the Mola Mola could sound so close to the Soulution. In fact, I am happy to report that I think the Mola Mola have a familiarity that, to these ears, is a closer match to the Soulution than say McIntosh. That something this exciting is on the horizon will obviously bring about lots of discussions as to what others think of Mola Mola. For this music lover, I was duly impressed and felt that, for the money, Mola Mola is hands down the company to keep an eye on in 2013. Unless, of course, you're from that other stratosphere and have the extra Moolah to spend on Soulution."

So an amp at $55,000 edges out a amp costing $15,000. WOW, what a surprise!
If you read the whole quote above and read between the lines it was close.
Also it is my understanding that the above Mola-Mola amps are not finale production versions and that there might be some improvements  made in the finale production run. However, even if that is not the case they still gave the Soluton a run for the money.

Do not misunderstand me, I think the Solution is one of the best, but the price, ouch.

Jackman, you must get over this misconception on the Case work adding this huge cost to the price of the OEM NC1200 amps. Not so much. You are barking up the wrong tree. Oh, I just made a funny, no pun intended.

As an example the Tube Research Lab NC1200 amps Case work are nothing special and retail for $9,000. See photo.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79070)
 
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 17 Apr 2013, 05:18 pm
THE (SECRET) RULES OF 'AUDIO REVIEWING' (http://www.high-endaudio.com/RR-STEREOPHILE.html#Rul)
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 17 Apr 2013, 05:28 pm
Hi Hifial,

I wasn't saying the cases contributed to the high cost of many of the OEM NCore "repackagers", it was merely a light hearted comment, a reference to the high prices these guys are slapping on their amps which, as far as I can tell, are repackaged, standard 1200 series amp modules and PS's.  No doubt they sound better than the DIY versions but they ought to, given the price.  Perhaps some manufacturers use the fancy cases as a way to justify the price of these amps.  It's good to see TRL (they might want to think of a new name becasuse there are no tubes in this one) is offering a version that is a good bargain. 

I hope lots of manufacturers jump on this technology because we need some competition in this segment.  If these guys are simply repackaging amp modules and Hypex PS's, maybe someone will come out with an even more modest (translation: inexpensive) version in a simple steel or aluminum case.  CNC looks cool but it doesn't make this stuff sound better.  I'd rather have the option of spending money on thing that make the product sound better, versus fancy cases to impress my audiogeek friends. 

It would be awesome if a company like Sony liscensed this technology, put the modules in modest cases and offered the amps for under $4K/pair (or stereo single unit).  I could live without the case jewelry, but commend the guys at TRL for jumping on the bandwagon and offering these amps at a better price than the competition.  The gold anodized look of the TRL reminds me of the stuff we put on our mountain bikes in the 90's (remember Kooka, Ringle, Kore, etc.).    Cool look, they also remind me of gold bars! 


Cheers,

J
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: medium jim on 17 Apr 2013, 05:40 pm
Part of the problem in the hobby is the well heeled who can afford the buy in of anything waived in front of them and the repackager's and otherwise capitalize on their deep pockets and fat wallets.  Others mistake the price tag as proof that it must be this it that. 

I agree with Jackman, it would be nice if a well respected company stepped in and offered the technology at fair prices.   But in the meantime, the savvy buyer will let the well heeled have their folly and wait for them on the used market. No warranty, trial period, rather market adjusted reality check prices.

Jim
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Regnad on 18 Apr 2013, 03:45 am
Does anyone know (or have a good idea) of what Hypex charges OEMs for the 1200s?   Are they allowed to dictate the OEM minimum price?
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: hifial on 18 Apr 2013, 05:57 am
How is TRL price of $9,000 a bargain? Merrill Audio amps until recently sold for the same price and Acoustic Imagery is asking the same($9,000). Obviously one of them has enough orders to have been able to raise the price.
Why are these prices not fair? How would anyone but the OEM know. And what happened to capitalism? The market will decide what is fair. Check Regnad post and figure it out. I will not comment.
Do you not see a pattern here. Theta Digital, if they ever release it, announced a price of $11,000.

As for Fancy Cases, what is so fancy? Have you seen the Ayre Amps, or D’Agostino amps etc?

And yes the NC1200 sounds better then the NC400. I have heard both. And I know others who have heard both and agree.

And you can forget Sony or another big name coming out with NC1200 mass market under $4,000 amps. Not based on the NC1200. Not anywhere near $4,000.

I also disagree that there is no benefit to the sound from the cases. Anything that can reduce micro vibrations will help at this level. If it is done right.

By the way Jackman, the TRL amps are more orange then gold in person.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 18 Apr 2013, 06:15 am
Anything that can reduce micro vibrations will help at this level. If it is done right.

I would love to see a proper engineering analysis of the audibility of the effect of "micro vibrations" on modern surface mounted circuits. I have seen a bunch of studies, mainly in the automotive and aerospace industries, but they usually talk about severe vibrations - and show how little effect even several G has.

I'd be curious to hear your rationale for why reducing "micro vibrations" would make any difference in a modern solid state amp, with properly potted coils and transformers, smallish caps and no bending of wires/cables.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: cujobob on 18 Apr 2013, 06:25 am
A company can make solid cases to minimize vibrations for very little. There are some incredibly solid DIY cases out there. Pricing in high - end audio is outrageous but almost necessary for many manufacturers to stay in business. The fact is, in niche markets...there are two extremes. Companies trying to bring the niche into the mainstream and then there are those who capitalize on the wealth and ignorance of the few within the niche.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: OzarkTom on 18 Apr 2013, 11:27 am
For vibration absorbtion, use the Pico feet from Amazon at $29.95 for four or the moon gel pads at sweetwater for $6.95 for four and free shipping. I still get a little better performance out of the moon gel pads over everything else I have tried.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: cab on 18 Apr 2013, 12:57 pm
Funny how all the commercial versions are priced exactly the same at $9000. Even Merrill was $9000. Now for some unknown reason, their price is $12000....
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 18 Apr 2013, 01:40 pm
Hifial,

Maybe you should change your name to Hypexal!  It seems that, outside of a handful of posts when you first joined AC, you post exclusively in the Hypex circle.  Also, your good friend owns Merrel, the highest priced "repacker " of these amp modules.  You are possibly the last person on the planet I would go to for an objective opinion. 

I'm disappointed about the TRL pricing.  Even though they are a better value than Merrel, they are still too expensive.  I'm still waiting for someone to come out with a reasonably priced version of these amps in a modest case.  Forget the blinged out CNC jewelry, I'd prefer to spend money on things that actually affect the sound. 

These amp modules appear to be a commodity.  Each replacker just puts the modules in a different type of box as far as I can tell.  Hopefully more competition will help being down prices to more affordable levels.  I still hope a mainstream company chooses to liscense this technology and makes it available to the masses, in modest cases without the audio jewelry.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 18 Apr 2013, 01:42 pm
You guys are making me laugh this morning.
Now I'm going to go have a $900 cup of coffee in my gaudily CNC'd hi rez taste-o-phile coffee mug and low vibration coaster.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AluminatiSound on 18 Apr 2013, 01:56 pm
These cost way too much.

The case would be gravy to make. An hour or two, few hundred bucks.

Matt
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 18 Apr 2013, 02:04 pm
These cost way too much.

The case would be gravy to make. An hour or two, few hundred bucks.

Matt

I'd pay more if the cases look as good as the ones you make.   You are a true artist.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AluminatiSound on 18 Apr 2013, 02:18 pm
I'd pay more if the cases look as good as the ones you make.   You are a true artist.

Thanks man!!!

I always try to make my designs look great but for some odd reason they don't cost as much as similar products that look plain....  :?

Matt
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: TF1216 on 18 Apr 2013, 02:22 pm
Kraemer,

Want to inquire about purchasing the NC1200 modules and starting our own amplifier company?  :thumb:

I understand capitalism (a proponent, even) and I don't have a problem with amplifier designers/manufacturers charging what they want for their work.  However, the NC1200 are modules much like the NC400 modules.  I don't feel there was much testing or development of the Hypex amplifiers to justify a price about $10,000. 

I don't see why Hypex doesn't keep the modules for themselves and sell high-end amplifiers themselves.  Hmm...I may be missing something.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Hank on 18 Apr 2013, 02:54 pm
THE (SECRET) RULES OF 'AUDIO REVIEWING'

Thanks for the comic relief, Julf :thumb:  Love it.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AluminatiSound on 18 Apr 2013, 03:03 pm
Kraemer,

Want to inquire about purchasing the NC1200 modules and starting our own amplifier company?  :thumb:

I understand capitalism (a proponent, even) and I don't have a problem with amplifier designers/manufacturers charging what they want for their work.  However, the NC1200 are modules much like the NC400 modules.  I don't feel there was much testing or development of the Hypex amplifiers to justify a price about $10,000. 

I don't see why Hypex doesn't keep the modules for themselves and sell high-end amplifiers themselves.  Hmm...I may be missing something.

I asked for a set but they said no......

That means i have to start a company to get a set!!!!!  :green:

Matt
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: TF1216 on 18 Apr 2013, 03:26 pm
I asked for a set but they said no......

That means i have to start a company to get a set!!!!!  :green:

Matt

I wonder what would happen if you came up with a visually extraordinary enclosure and presented it to Hypex and Bruno.  They may consider hearing a business proposal. 

How about incorporating some Phillips color changing LEDs into the bottom of the housing?  Is that too much audio tomfoolery? 
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Letitroll98 on 18 Apr 2013, 03:27 pm
To clear up some stuff here:

hifial is a good guy and a serious audiophile who doesn't like to post much unless it's a topic that really interests him.  Thus the smaller number of posts in selective circles.  I know he's been interested in the Ncore amps since they first came out because he came to my house to hear them.  He's definitely not a fanboy of any product and is actually way more critical of anything he purchases than the average audiophile. 

The NC1200 module is significantly more expensive than the NC400 and available only as OEM supply.  IMHO Hypex made a great decision on offering a reasonably priced DIY kit for the everyman, which you can buy and build your own amp if you want to, and a more powerful and sophisticated module for the higher end market.  I don't remember if it was Jan-Peter or Bruno who said it, but the NC1200 was priced to be used in amps that would retail for $10-15k, so the current pricing is right in line with what they intended, but they cannot do any price fixing of other company's retail products.

As far as the linked review by the OP, I believe more was said by what was not said that what was.  It was more of a review of the guys audio salon than the Mola Mola amps.  Nothing about the bass as it wasn't used in the speakers (why didn't they move the amps to one of the other rooms???).  The midrange was competitive with an expensive amp, and the high frequencies have the same problem that stops everyone from buying the Ncore amps.  Now I'm not worried about the bass as I expect it to be at least as awesome as the NC400 bass, the amp in general is astonishingly quiet, dynamic, and generally tuneful across the frequency spectrum, albeit with that high frequency switching distortion problem that never seems to go away.  That one factor is about the only qualitative thing said in the review, I think it's telling.     
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: hifial on 18 Apr 2013, 07:33 pm
Letitroll98, I appreciate your words and thank you for setting somethings straight.

I actual have been keeping track of the NCore for a few years. Ever since Bruno mentioned he was working on it. I believe on pricing a "minimum" can be set. Remember Hypex does not have to grant a license it is their tech and can dictate the terms.   

I must tell you that on the NC1200, I and others I know, have not heard any "high frequency switching distortion". This is on all kinds of speakers and gear. From Horns to Maggie and everything in between. I will say that they are so revealing that you will hear any and everything, good and bad top to bottom in the chain. I am very sensitive to HIGH frequency and have head it in some systems when others have not. Last fall, right after Sandy hit NJ there was an open house at Ralph Glasgal. Loads of people and many of his systems to be heard. In one room I hear a high pitch sound that is driving me out of the room. When I ask others "do you hear that" the reply from most, but not all, as they come and go is "hear what?" Then Ralph comes in and I ask him. Even he does not hear it but believes that I do. So we start to trouble shoot and find the cause and oh what a relief. Maybe some us are even more sensitive but I would suggest you look elsewhere in the chain first. Of course I can only base this on the one NC1200 amps I have heard.
Also the Mola-Mola amps are not in their final production design yet.

Look some of us like tubes and that is great and I do too. Some have stated having gear with tubes and the NC1200, and that works for them. I think for those it would be the same with a SS amp.

I am not saying that the NC1200 has no faults or is the best. Never said that. Never will. Nothing is. But I have heard many others around its price point and I think it is a very worthy contender and the best I have heard at around that price point. Did I just say that? I love Pass Labs Class A mono (only class a) amps. But the ones that have the watts I would want are too big, hot, heavy, use too much electric and cost too much. So like life it is all about compromises and personal taste. I have said before its like food, we all have different tastes...it is what we each like. But until you try the food cooked by my chef do not say you do not like his food because you tried all the others. That goes for any Audio Equipment.


Julf:
"I would love to see a proper engineering analysis of the audibility of the effect of "micro vibrations" on modern surface mounted circuits. I have seen a bunch of studies, mainly in the automotive and aerospace industries, but they usually talk about severe vibrations - and show how little effect even several G has."

Well this has nothing to do on the effect of micro vibrations on the reproduction of high fidelity sound of music in a transparent stereo system for the home. It only relates to will they work as expected/designed under those conditions. I have been told  (by more then one authority) of the engineering/physics behind it and understood it but I would not be able to do it justice. I promise nothing but if I can found anything I will post it here when I have the chance.

But in the mean time let me ask you. Do you trust your own ears? If you have the system to hear the difference then borrow a set of Stillpoints Ultra SS and try them in your system. Not just under one thing, that might be the one very well designed piece.
I tried this with a friend who felt it was a wast of time. We tried it under his DAC, Amps, Speakers and Distribution Box. It made an Audible improvement under each one. It was like distortion that was in the system was removed each time. No change in tone just distortion removed.

Will this work under a boom box? I doubt it.

Jackman: I agree, you are the last person I would expect to get an objective opinion. I post so little and that makes my opinion suspect? I know Merrill through several Audio Clubs we both belong to here in NJ (which I have mentioned before) so that makes my opinion suspect. Well there are several others in the Clubs that are OEM so is my opinion suspect of them also? Try Kaplan Cable as an example. So if I know them by chance and like the product that makes my opinion suspect. Well MILLIONS of Apple users are FanBoys and they never knew Steve Jobs should they be suspect. Does someone have to know someone to have their opinion suspect. Well I do not want to live in your world because in this country you are not guilty by association.

Lets all move on and all respect each others opinions.

PS Kraemer, it is my understanding that Hypex had stopped issuing new NC1200 OEM  licenses. When and if they open up the granting of licenses I do not know. Good luck to you.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Apr 2013, 07:39 pm
but for some odd reason they don't cost as much as similar products that look plain....  :?

Matt
Really, you don't know why?  Using someone else's $65k machine, free tooling, electric and building doesn't help keep the cost down?   :scratch:
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AluminatiSound on 18 Apr 2013, 07:58 pm
Really, you don't know why?  Using someone else's $65k machine, free tooling, electric and building doesn't help keep the cost down?   :scratch:

I do know why!!!

Those cases would take 2 hours to make. My shop charges OUR customers $65 an hour to machine. The aluminum is worth around $150 for both of those cases. Tooling is around $100.

So add that up and you get $380. We'll round it up to $500.

So where do you get the $10,000 from. The amp modules are no more than $2,000 for the pair direct cost from Hypex.

They should be charging $4,000-$6,000 for a pair.

I am using my tools that i paid for, purchased my own material and paid my boss $200 to do this project.

Matt


Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Apr 2013, 08:00 pm
I do know why!!!

Those cases would take 2 hours to make. My shop charges OUR customers $65 an hour to machine. The aluminum is worth around $150 for both of those cases. Tooling is around $100.

So add that up and you get $380. We'll round it up to $500.

So where do you get the $10,000 from. The amp modules are no more than $2,000 for the pair direct cost from Hypex.

They should be charging $4,000-$6,000 for a pair.

I am using my tools that i paid for, purchased my own material and paid my boss $200 to do this project.

Matt
Right.  So your design time and one off prototypes are all free and included in this?  Maybe I'll send all of our work to you and shut down our shop. 
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AluminatiSound on 18 Apr 2013, 08:11 pm
Right.  So your design time and one off prototypes are all free and included in this?  Maybe I'll send all of our work to you and shut down our shop.

Design time is around 8 hours for my cases. Still not in the realm of 10k+

Serious inflation!!!

Matt

I just don't like greediness of hi end audio.....

I'm done.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Apr 2013, 08:13 pm
Design time is around 8 hours for my cases. Still not in the realm of 10k+

Serious inflation!!!

Matt

I just don't like greediness of hi end audio.....

I'm done.

Please PM your shops info so I can have them quote some jobs.   :thumb:
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AluminatiSound on 18 Apr 2013, 08:18 pm
Please PM your shops info so I can have them quote some jobs.   :thumb:

We are very busy and can't take anymore jobs  8)

But seriously i do not want to fight about this.

Just think some things are way way overpriced for what they really are.

Don't you agree?

Matt
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: cab on 18 Apr 2013, 09:03 pm
If you choose to believe the designer, there should be no material difference in the sound between the two modules, with the nc400 having slightly better specs. There have been no serious tests that I have heard of comparing the two. All comparisons have been ancdotal to date. Jury is still out.
One can assemble an entire 2 channel amp using the nc400's for less than $2000. Doubtful the nc1200 with power supply costs more than double the nc400. No doubt there is a substantial markup on the commercial products. I have heard rumors to the effect that Hypex has asked commercial sellers to charge no less than $9000 for a pair of the nc1200's. This is just a rumor, but with all commerical offerings to date at that price point (Merrill was $9000 when they came out and have since raised their price to $12,000) perhaps there is something to it. If it isn't true, then at some point we should certainly see a much cheaper nc1200 amp on the market, in a plain case, aimed at those interested primarily in performance.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: medium jim on 18 Apr 2013, 09:32 pm
Disagree with the moderator and get binned, got to love it!

Jim
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 18 Apr 2013, 09:45 pm
Yeah Cab, and that's pretty much the coolest part, the fact that these amps get thrown in the ring with way, way expensive stuff, essentially the highest of high end, and come out roses.

It's just the start, imagine the prices and technology in 5 years.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: medium jim on 18 Apr 2013, 10:10 pm
Design time is around 8 hours for my cases. Still not in the realm of 10k+

Serious inflation!!!

Matt

I just don't like greediness of hi end audio.....

I'm done.

+1  But you really don't need to let it get to you and give up!

Jim
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: farquad on 19 Apr 2013, 05:04 am
We are very busy and can't take anymore jobs  8)

But seriously i do not want to fight about this.

Just think some things are way way overpriced for what they really are.

Don't you agree?

Matt

Everything hifi is overpriced. Especially the hiend hifi.
Reason for this is the small market. They dont sell many of these. So the development and marketing cost per unit sold gets really high.

Question is if its competitive priced compared to similar products.
Also when it comes to hifi, a high pricetag can give the illusion of being more exclusive.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: James Romeyn on 19 Apr 2013, 05:11 am
Disregard this if you find it irrelevant.

I regularly visit TJ Max for coffee deals...found some great stuff I love, $5 for 12 oz. 

I'm in line last night staring at all the crap in front of me.  There is 7 oz of flavored popcorn for $15.  I think this proves there are many other markets (in practically every area of consumer item) with products overpriced to the same degree as the worst examples in high end audio. 

Two dollars per oz for popcorn is insane unless it's dipped in gold (then it's under-priced).

If I drive up there again soon I'll take a picture of it.  I could not believe the price, had to stare at it for several seconds.   
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: James Romeyn on 19 Apr 2013, 05:26 am
Does anyone know (or have a good idea) of what Hypex charges OEMs for the 1200s?   Are they allowed to dictate the OEM minimum price?

I know personally a fairly successful designer/manufacturer who sampled Bruno's 1200.  He said he was unimpressed and preferred his current ICE Power based mono blocs selling for only (about) $2500/pr.  (BTW, I find this very hard to believe because I disliked the Bel Canto ICE amp I heard.) 

Anyway, he said indeed yes, Hypex dictates minimum msrp, which IIRC was about $9k/pr. 

Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 19 Apr 2013, 06:24 am
Well this has nothing to do on the effect of micro vibrations on the reproduction of high fidelity sound of music in a transparent stereo system for the home. It only relates to will they work as expected/designed under those conditions.

Absolutely, but I would assume the underlying physical effects are the same.

Quote
I have been told  (by more then one authority) of the engineering/physics behind it and understood it but I would not be able to do it justice. I promise nothing but if I can found anything I will post it here when I have the chance.

That would definitely be appreciated!

Quote
But in the mean time let me ask you. Do you trust your own ears?

No, I don't. Or, rather, I don't trust my own brain in interpreting the signals from my ears. Have seen far too many examples of how easily our expectations, visual stimuli, time of day, phase of moon and length of to-do list affects how my ear-brain combination "hears" things. As a result, I have become a very firm believer in blind ABX listening, and objective verification (not just in audio).

The problem with something like the Stillpoints is that to properly ABX them, you need two identical systems, and a very good A/B switcher. Easier to do for source components, much harder for a power amp where you have to switch loudpeaker-level signals. And with my active 4-way system, it becomes practically impossible. But in ABX tests with other, lesser semiconductor gear, I have not been able to tell any difference when using "vibration dampening" products. Valve gear, and stuff with moving components (CD drives) are another matter.

Quote
I tried this with a friend who felt it was a wast of time. We tried it under his DAC, Amps, Speakers and Distribution Box. It made an Audible improvement under each one. It was like distortion that was in the system was removed each time. No change in tone just distortion removed.

And it was under double-blind conditions?

Quote
Well MILLIONS of Apple users are FanBoys and they never knew Steve Jobs should they be suspect.

Yes? :)

Quote
in this country you are not guilty by association

Tell that to the FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS, IRS and DEA... :)
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Apr 2013, 02:00 pm
Everything hifi is overpriced. Especially the hiend hifi.

I disagree. This may conflict with the strawman caricature view of me (or ilk) by audiophile snobs, but unlike them, I fully understand the implications of the studies about perception that I have posted previously. The "overpriced" item actually does "sound" (or taste, etc.) better when "listening", to the perceptions of that user/buyer. It is as real in their mind as if it were in the soundwaves/soundfield (which it isn't). And thus, they are getting their moneys worth. Just like with expensive wine, coffee, popcorn, jewelry, whatnot. Beauty truly is in the eye (and ear) of the beholder.
And as I stated a thousand times, none of us listen controlled/blind at home.
So I have no issue with the person who uses a $200 Pioneer receiver, $700 Emotiva or a $200,000 Blingamp. All may create the exact same soundfield, but be perceived subjectively very differently to different minds.
Actually, the only time there is an issue or conflict with audiophile belief vs physical reality, is when they insist that their unerring perception is in fact, always the physical reality of the soundwaves/soundfield. It isn't.
I'm as comfortable with $200 worth of Pioneer, as I am with $12k worth of Cary, Belles, etc., in my system, as I've had, because all that matters is my perception of them and whether it pleases me (all do).
As such, I'm getting my moneys worth out of each one. I'm sure the Mola Mola buyer is too.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: bummrush on 19 Apr 2013, 02:14 pm
I hate ice amps too. What blew me away was the ridiculous bass. It was boom boom, way over blown and frankly very unrealistic , but it seems rolls flock to that thinking its realistic.
And yes hi end can be a very very greedy and marketing thrown in to make you think you're getting a good deal while they laugh all way to the bank 12000 for a pair of amps while DIY can be had for 2000 it's pretty obvious whats going on.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: rollo on 20 Apr 2013, 02:19 pm
I know personally a fairly successful designer/manufacturer who sampled Bruno's 1200.  He said he was unimpressed and preferred his current mono blocs selling for only (about) $2500/pr.  (BTW, I find this very hard to believe because I disliked the Bel Canto ICE amp I heard.) 

Anyway, he said indeed yes, Hypex dictates minimum msrp, which IIRC was about $9k/pr.

   James do we know this as fact ? Meaning the minimum dictated selling price. Someday I will get to hear the N-cores compared to my Arion amps. The Merrill version should be in house next week. If it happens I will report back.
   

charles


Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Letitroll98 on 20 Apr 2013, 05:18 pm
   James do we know this as fact ? Meaning the minimum dictated selling price. Someday I will get to hear the N-cores compared to my Arion amps. The Merrill version should be in house next week. If it happens I will report back.
   

charles

Yes it true, and I was incorrect in my earlier statement that they couldn't set MSRP by restricting distribution to OEM manufacturers.  Previous to 2008 I was correct, but now the Supreme Court has overturned a previous ruling:

"In a sharply divided 5-4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court has overruled its own 1911 decision in the Dr. Miles case and held that a manufacturer does not necessarily violate the antitrust laws by establishing a minimum resale price for its products and enforcing the policy by terminating a wholesaler-distributor or other reseller who sells below the minimum price. (Leegin Creative Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc. d/b/a Kay’s Kloset…Kay’s Shoes, Docket No. 06-480)

The Court ruled that “vertical agreements establishing minimum resale prices can have either procompetitive or anticompetitive effects, depending upon the circumstances in which they are formed.” Thus, these agreements should no longer be per se (or automatically) unlawful, as previously ruled in the Dr. Miles case. Rather, courts should apply the “rule of reason” standard to decide, on a case-by-case basis, whether a particular vertical price restraint violates federal antitrust law. It should be emphasized that the Court’s decision still leaves vertical minimum resale price restraints open to antitrust challenge under federal and state antitrust laws."

http://www.naw.org/govrelations/advisory.php?articleid=532 (http://www.naw.org/govrelations/advisory.php?articleid=532)

What that means is every price fixing case will be decided individually on it's own merits according to the "rule of reason".  IMHO an incredibly short sighted and foolish decision by a court I have very little confidence in lately.  I understand throwing something back to the lower courts to rule on, but this ruling puts an unnecessary burden on the system inviting a plethora of conflicting lawsuits and decisions.  Not the first time this court has ruled in this style, shirking responsibility and doing nothing except lining the pockets of attorneys everywhere.   
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 20 Apr 2013, 06:05 pm
And that of course only applies in the US...
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: medium jim on 21 Apr 2013, 04:26 am
And that of course only applies in the US...

Hypex holds the cards and if you don't play by their rules, they won't sell you the modules...

Jim
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 21 Apr 2013, 08:05 am
There's some profit built into the 1200 model, but it looks worth it, and I have to be honest, if I had a lot more money to spend, more money than time, then after what I've experienced with 400 modules, I wouldn't hesitate to get some Mola Mola's. If money was no object Ncores would still be up at the top of my list, definitely. Actually, no, if money was no object I'd just pay Mr. Putzeys to craft me a personal set.

The fact that the internal hardware, the basic amp module itself is but a fraction of the cost of what it gets compared to is the coolest part. Both the Hennessey Viper and the Ariel Atom V8 of amps.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Julf on 21 Apr 2013, 09:03 am
Hypex holds the cards and if you don't play by their rules, they won't sell you the modules...

Sure. Just pointing out that any considerations involving actual laws are constrained by legislative scope - rather relevant considering Hypex is an European company.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 Apr 2013, 02:28 am
Thanks for the court case info. 

Regardless of law, all any manufacturer must do with any bad or under performing vendor is...............not fill the order. 
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 22 Apr 2013, 01:39 pm
Regardless of law, all any manufacturer must do with any bad or under performing vendor is...............not fill the order.
And if the vendor doesn't like the manufacturers rules....find another.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. Insults via PM now MedJim? Sheesh :duh: Don't take this all too seriously man!! :lol:
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 22 Apr 2013, 02:09 pm
And if the vendor doesn't like the manufacturers rules....find another.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. Insults via PM now MedJim? Sheesh :duh: Don't take this all too seriously man!! :lol:

AJ - Medium Jim is sending you insulting and threatening PM's as well?   Here I thought I was special, because he sent me some yesterday.  I feel cheated!
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: rollo on 22 Apr 2013, 02:12 pm
AJ - Medium Jim is sending you insulting and threatening PM's as well?   Here I thought I was special, because he sent me some yesterday.  I feel cheated!

  Your not alone, insults to me as well.


charles
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: bummrush on 22 Apr 2013, 02:22 pm
Ice amps have been repackaged for years you think it's not going to happen here?
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: jackman on 22 Apr 2013, 02:25 pm
  Your not alone, insults to me as well.


charles

In public, he is all "peace and love" John Lennon quotes but in private it's a different song altogether.   It saddens me that you are also getting the same treatment.   :thumb:
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 22 Apr 2013, 02:37 pm
Group hug. :green:
Now repeat after me, it's audio, just audio!! :thumb:

Hey Charles, CapFest??
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 22 Apr 2013, 02:42 pm
Ice amps have been repackaged for years you think it's not going to happen here?

Not sure if a module can be considered "repackaging", as it's well, sold as a module. Much like a speaker driver. Many Brands use the same driver. Don't consider that repackage, IMHO.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: sonicboom on 22 Apr 2013, 03:08 pm
AJ sorry, but that is not a good analogy at all.  As a speaker designer, you, better that any one else knows that incorporating a driver into a system with a crossover and a cabinet is not a simple task.  That's were the art and science lie.  Would you drop a driver into an arbitrary cab and use a generic textbook crossover? If only it were that simple we would all be star designers!  Putting an amp module into a metal box with some wire and connectors is really not that difficult, even if you go all out with machined metal cases and expensive wire.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 22 Apr 2013, 04:00 pm
AJ sorry, but that is not a good analogy at all.  As a speaker designer, you, better that any one else knows that incorporating a driver into a system with a crossover and a cabinet is not a simple task.  That's were the art and science lie.  Would you drop a driver into an arbitrary cab and use a generic textbook crossover? If only it where that simple we would all be star designers!  Putting an amp module into a metal box with some wire and connectors is really not that difficult, even if you go all out with machined metal cases and expensive wire.

Umm, ok, let me try again. "Repackaging", as I interpret it, would be me slapping my badge on an entire speaker system, not a driver. Or a Cadillac badge on a Cavalier and call it a Cimarron (aka "Rebranding").
The Ice and Hypex are modules. What entire amps are they making, to be "repackaged"? If simply using their modules are "repackaging", how is that different from using the same driver and calling it 'repackaging"?

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: sonicboom on 22 Apr 2013, 04:33 pm
Umm, ok, let me try again. "Repackaging", as I interpret it, would be me slapping my badge on an entire speaker system, not a driver. Or a Cadillac badge on a Cavalier and call it a Cimarron (aka "Rebranding").
The Ice and Hypex are modules. What entire amps are they making, to be "repackaged"? If simply using their modules are "repackaging", how is that different from using the same driver and calling it 'repackaging"?

cheers,

AJ

Okay, I see what you're saying but IMO it's semantics.  Maybe the better descriptive word would be "packaging" as opposed to "repackaging".  Because at the end, that's all these companies do.  There's really no intellectual property put into the amplifier (as a circuit design) by the "packaging" company, aside from the selection of the enclosure and the wiring inside, which is really a trivial task.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: neekomax on 22 Apr 2013, 04:53 pm
AJ sorry, but that is not a good analogy at all.  As a speaker designer, you, better that any one else knows that incorporating a driver into a system with a crossover and a cabinet is not a simple task.  That's were the art and science lie.  Would you drop a driver into an arbitrary cab and use a generic textbook crossover? If only it where that simple we would all be star designers!  Putting an amp module into a metal box with some wire and connectors is really not that difficult, even if you go all out with machined metal cases and expensive wire.

Umm, ok, let me try again. "Repackaging", as I interpret it, would be me slapping my badge on an entire speaker system, not a driver. Or a Cadillac badge on a Cavalier and call it a Cimarron (aka "Rebranding").
The Ice and Hypex are modules. What entire amps are they making, to be "repackaged"? If simply using their modules are "repackaging", how is that different from using the same driver and calling it 'repackaging"?

cheers,

AJ

You're both right, in the sense that the product's value to the consumer rests in the value of whatever design innovation the banding company presumably brings to the final assembled product, as well as its implementation of  components readily available the consumer. So a consumer's decision, especialliy n the Hypex case, is can I reasonably make this for myself way cheaper, and have the same or better features that I need?. If one judges the hassle it is to actually make an amp worth a certain premium paid to another guy, why not? If that calculation falls to the side of DIY for too many of its potential customers, bye bye re-branding manufacturer.

Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: neekomax on 22 Apr 2013, 05:32 pm
... so, erm, how 'bout those Mola Mola amps?  :wink:

Is it just me, were those guys havin' a laugh when they came up with the name "Hypex?"

Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 22 Apr 2013, 06:03 pm
... so, erm, how 'bout those Mola Mola amps?  :wink:

Is it just me, were those guys havin' a laugh when they came up with the name "Hypex?"

A) No. Hypex is very respected as the forefront of class d ever since they introduced the UCD.

B) Bruno is a demigod.

C) We have the NC400. World class power for $2k. So we as consumers have nothing to be pissed about.

D) Even the NC1200 is a value. I think people are losing sight of the fact that this $9000 set of monoblocks was just compared to and considered to be in the range of $50,000 Soluution (?) amps.

That's not impressive?? Sheesh!

E) A lot of people railing against these amps have no experience with them, or a deep seated bias, even irrational hatred towards class d, switching supplies and their advancement.

I LOVE Hypex. One very happy customer here.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: neekomax on 22 Apr 2013, 06:09 pm
A) No. Hypex is very respected as the forefront of class d ever since they introduced the UCD.

B) Bruno is a demigod.

C) We have the NC400. World class power for $2k. So we as consumers have nothing to be pissed about.

D) Even the NC1200 is a value. I think people are losing sight of the fact that this $9000 set of monoblocks was just compared to and considered to be in the range of $50,000 Soluution (?) amps.

That's not impressive?? Sheesh!

E) A lot of people railing against these amps have no experience with them, or a deep seated bias, even irrational hatred towards class d, switching supplies and their advancement.

I LOVE Hypex. One very happy customer here.

I hear you, no doubt people are really digging those amps.

Just think it's kind of funny, given the nature of the big AC threads right now.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 22 Apr 2013, 06:10 pm
I think people are barking up at the right trees, just not this particular one. Hypex is out to save the world, not rip us off.
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: AJinFLA on 22 Apr 2013, 06:47 pm
C) We have the NC400. World class power for $2k.
D) Even the NC1200 is a value. (@ >$9k)
According to who? I don't recall when this consensus was attained. Care to shed some light?

I think people are losing sight of the fact that this $9000 set of monoblocks was just compared to and considered to be in the range of $50,000 Soluution (?) amps.

That's not impressive?? Sheesh!
No. Not to me.
Why do you find this purely subjective opinion by someone else to be of such value that you repeatedly tout it? Is it confirmation comfort?
Even if true, that it got close, that still only makes it MidFi compared to the $300k Wavacs.
Because I said so.

E) A lot of people railing against these amps have no experience with them
Oh, that is important? Please do tell us your experience with the $55k amps they are being compared to. TIA.

I LOVE Hypex. One very happy customer here.
I would never have guessed... :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: Rclark on 22 Apr 2013, 06:49 pm
nope
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: sonicboom on 22 Apr 2013, 08:14 pm

Even if true, that it got close, that still only makes it MidFi compared to the $300k Wavacs.
Because I said so.


Good one! Had a good laugh... thanks for that :icon_lol:
Title: Re: First comparison of the Mola Mola amps on the net
Post by: dr.sah on 13 May 2013, 07:07 pm
Mola mola was on Munchen hiend show.