AudioCircle

Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: alfau7 on 22 Dec 2017, 08:53 pm

Title: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: alfau7 on 22 Dec 2017, 08:53 pm: Hello everyone, I would like some help please, I've been reading that replacing fuses improve the sound, so I wonder if somebody has tried it on the nuprime dac 10, would be great to know you experience and hear your recommended fuses.
Also I kindly ask for the specifications of the fuse on the dac 10, mostly it size.
Thank you
Fausto
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 24 Dec 2017, 04:34 am: Hi Fausto ...

Its printed right below the fuse holder on the case. It takes a 2.5 amp slow blow fuse.

I have tried several audiophile fuses with it. I had to stop using the More Than A Fuse - fuse - because the bass it was producing was disturbing my apartment neighbor's wall. It gave a very rich sounding presentation. I then switched to a Hi-Fi Tuning Fuse Supreme that tamed it a bit. Both sound very good. I also tried the Synergistic Research Black fuse and it did not work well with my system.

Gene
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Speedskater on 24 Dec 2017, 04:26 pm: Any well designed DAC will be totally insensitive to the changes in the AC power line fuse.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 24 Dec 2017, 05:20 pm: Are you saying the DAC 10 is not well designed?
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Speedskater on 24 Dec 2017, 05:57 pm: Just the opposite (I hope).
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 26 Dec 2017, 04:05 am: Quote from: Speedskater on 24 Dec 2017, 05:57 pm
Just the opposite (I hope).

Well then? Look at what you said...

Quote
Any well designed DAC will be totally insensitive to the changes in the AC power line fuse.

It is sensitive because its transparent!

The better a component is the more evident a power cord and fuse change will make. If you're playing with equipment (speakers.. cables... amp) that dulls and warms up the sound? Then you will probably hear none to little difference.

In another forum one guy was nay saying fuses similar in manner to your approach. When asked what he listens with? He has Marantz equipment that he could never test an audiophile fuses with! But he was sure we were imagining things!

(http://www.societyofrobots.com/images/electronics_fuse_pico.JPG)

That is the fuse his equipment uses. He never could hear audiophile fuses to try them... but, judged with certainty without knowing anything!
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: giordy60 on 27 Dec 2017, 02:43 pm: I did not know that audiophile fuses existed
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 27 Dec 2017, 06:24 pm: Quote from: giordy60 on 27 Dec 2017, 02:43 pm
I did not know that audiophile fuses existed

Audio is about learning about one tweak that helps at a time...

............................ https://positive-feedback.com/Issue74/fuses.htm (https://positive-feedback.com/Issue74/fuses.htm)

....................................... ..... http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com/2014/01/aftermarket-fuses-synergistic-research.html (http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com/2014/01/aftermarket-fuses-synergistic-research.html)
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: alfau7 on 29 Dec 2017, 03:54 am: Thank you for your responses, I just ordered the hifi tunning Supreme, let's see how it goes, I will report after some breaking and tests.
Also one Amr audiophile gold fuse for my amplifier.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 4 Jan 2018, 05:58 am: Good choice... The Hi Fi Supreme goes well with the DAC10.

Just remember after you have listened for a while to try the fuse in the other direction.

Listen for a while to your favorite songs... and then try the fuse again in the opposite direction. One should sound better to your ears.

The fuse has a little arrow head printed on its black tube. That will let you know which direction its sitting.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 4 Jan 2018, 07:38 am: Quote from: Genez on 26 Dec 2017, 04:05 am
The better a component is the more evident a power cord and fuse change will make.

I see what you are saying, but I think there are some other things worth noting...

In terms of raw power, electricity is a medium, as is water or air. But regardless of the medium, if it's tainted to begin with, that which consumes it will be affected by it. So if you were a criminal on death row facing the electric chair, it might not be a bad idea to insist on the grounds of compassion that the power be conditioned to the highest possible standard for a cleaner death. Seriously! But that's another discussion. :lol:

The point here is if you're tapping from a dirty power source, you need a filter. Is that what boutique power cords are designed to do? Drinking tainted water or breathing in tainted air is not a good idea. Either one could make you very sick or even kill you. The quality of electricity matters.

Many people prefer to listen late a night because that's when their system tends to sound best. The reason is there is a lot less activity and draw in the electrical grid, so the power is actually cleaner than it is by day.

Getting back to power cords and fuses, I think it makes more sense to invest in cleaner power than boutique power cords. Fuses however are different in the sense they are designed to protect the electronics, not filter tainted power. Haven't tried one yet, but I'd like to try one in my DAC-10. :thumb:
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 4 Jan 2018, 08:30 am: Maybe I never gave it a thought because I always had some sort of filter in use. Used to use a Furman. I resisted the idea until a friend who designs and mods told me about the benefits of power cords. He is the same one who years ago recommended to me litz for speaker cables. That was an eye (ear) opener for me in itself. When changing power cords I could hear them burning in and transforming. I think it has several factors involved. One is the power cords I use are triple shielded and use high internal quality wiring.... but the price is kept down.Even uses Cardas copper. Pangea power cords found over at Audio Advisor (who also sells NuPrime).

I must admit... fuses seemed like some audiophiles having more money than their own good, went looking for something new. But, it turns out, they can truly transform the sound of a component. And, the direction they are placed in the holder also changes the sound. At least, on my system these tweaks are easy to discern. These tweaks are not for systems that are not highly resolving. They are intended for audiophile level systems. I have also heard some components that has ordinary power cords that sounded quite good. But there is a clarity of sound that both fuses and power cords will effect in a positive way.

I have tried several brands of fuses, and they all lend their own signature sound. The typical glass fuses are generic crude devices never designed with audio in mind. For example... Schurter electronics makes fuses. But, they also make an audio fuse which is not very expensive. I have some. It improves over the typical glass fuses we typically get in components. I still found the Hi Fi Tuning Supreme fuses a great match for NuPrime and NuForce equipment They put a certain meat on the bones that sits just right. The Pangea cords are inexpensive compared to the typical high price ones.... and are made *very* well. I find that the NuPrime amps are so very efficient that they only need a very good source power cord.

When I had my Furman power conditioner it had a meter to show amperage usage. When I told Furman my reading when using my amplifier they thought maybe the Furman was defective! You do not need big fat cords with Nuprime. I listen with an TDSS modded ST-10 with the following cable... I use the same cable on all my source components as well. For what its worth... the designer modder I mentioned also discovered that power cords for reasons unknown sound better at at least two meters long. I was not to argue on that one... so instead of 500 dollars I bought a very good power cord for about 70 dollars. Cardas copper!

Take a peek? Pangea Power cords... http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14S2&opt=3634 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14S2&opt=3634)
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: alfau7 on 5 Jan 2018, 01:30 am: Just to let you know that I also bought a Furman 215a, it only has 2 ac outlets BUT allows to put different power cords, so gives more flexibility to try different cables.
Also interesting to read that power cords don't make to much difference on the dac 10, I made some test switching 2 different power cords between my amplifier, CD player and the dac 10, to resume the best power cord I left on the amplifier, the Xlo ultra plus, and my diy Furukawa occ cable on the CD player, the dac 10 stays with a 16 awg regular cable because there was not too much difference. I have to mention and recommend that I was very impressed the difference made by putting a high end power cord on the CD player, I think the better current the lower jitter, I don't know another reason for such an improvement.
I will report how much could help the Furman and the fuses.
Thanks again for your comments, it's looks like the hifi tunning Supreme was a great choice.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: alfau7 on 18 Feb 2018, 03:32 pm: Just to report, the hifi tunning fuse do make a difference and it's worth the expense, for what I noticed the mids, low and high mids sounds better, let's say more palpable, real, also cleaner. As reference I tried it with the Xlo ultra plus u10 power cord.
Also the direction of the fuse makes a difference, the fuse has something like an arrow it has to point up to get the best performance, pointing down the image gets diffuse.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 18 Feb 2018, 06:03 pm: Quote from: alfau7 on 18 Feb 2018, 03:32 pm
Just to report, the hifi tunning fuse do make a difference and it's worth the expense, for what I noticed the mids, low and high mids sounds better, let's say more palpable, real, also cleaner. As reference I tried it with the Xlo ultra plus u10 power cord.
Also the direction of the fuse makes a difference, the fuse has something like an arrow it has to point up to get the best performance, pointing down the image gets diffuse.

Out of this fuse controversy we may discover that as color blindness was once discovered..... so we are going to maybe discover a form of "sound blindness" that some people have which makes them unable to detect certain audio cues, but can hear sound otherwise just fine. Its possible. For I find the improvement I get from Hi Fi Supreme tuning fuses to be undeniable... yet as some mock the idea.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 18 Feb 2018, 08:30 pm: I have yet to try one but with so many choices, how do go about choosing the right one?
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 18 Feb 2018, 11:56 pm: I tried spending less. Well? I found an instant improvement with a HPA9 using this economical audio fuse. But, I would not recommend it for an amp.... And, the Hi Fi Supreme Black fuse sounds easily better. Yet, it was an improvement over the generic glass fuse it came with. For me, the improvement was like having an instant burning in of the unit.

The Schurter Audio fuse: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIOPHILE-FUSE-5X20mm-Audio-Grade-GOLD-PLATED-/271356653809 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIOPHILE-FUSE-5X20mm-Audio-Grade-GOLD-PLATED-/271356653809) There is no marker on them to determine direction, so I marked one end of the tube with a little Magic Marker, so I can know which way its being situated. For, if you ever drop the fuse when switching, that would prevent a bit of confusion as to how it should go. I just mark down on a paper how the fuses are to go in my components, so when trying something different I do not have to waste time experimenting again with what direction to use.

I find the safest bet are the Hi Fi Supreme Blacks. 20x20mm size for every Nuprime I have done this with. Always enriches the sound I hear.

I found Chris at VH Audio to be excellent to work with. https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html (https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html)
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: joegator81 on 28 Feb 2018, 11:31 am: Quote from: Genez on 18 Feb 2018, 11:56 pm
I tried spending less. Well? I found an instant improvement with a HPA9 using this economical audio fuse. But, I would not recommend it for an amp.... And, the Hi Fi Supreme Black fuse sounds easily better. Yet, it was an improvement over the generic glass fuse it came with. For me, the improvement was like having an instant burning in of the unit.

The Schurter Audio fuse: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIOPHILE-FUSE-5X20mm-Audio-Grade-GOLD-PLATED-/271356653809 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIOPHILE-FUSE-5X20mm-Audio-Grade-GOLD-PLATED-/271356653809) There is no marker on them to determine direction, so I marked one end of the tube with a little Magic Marker, so I can know which way its being situated. For, if you ever drop the fuse when switching, that would prevent a bit of confusion as to how it should go. I just mark down on a paper how the fuses are to go in my components, so when trying something different I do not have to waste time experimenting again with what direction to use.

I find the safest bet are the Hi Fi Supreme Blacks. 20x20mm size for every Nuprime I have done this with. Always enriches the sound I hear.

I found Chris at VH Audio to be excellent to work with. https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html (https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176827)

I think you meant to say the correct size of Hi-Fi supreme is 5x20mm, yes?
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 28 Feb 2018, 06:16 pm: If you look in the wrong places the prices go up.

Try here https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html (https://www.vhaudio.com/hifi-tuning.html)

Make sure you put in the right size and value. For the DAC 10 it is: 5 x 20mm and T 2.5A (slow blow).
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 28 Feb 2018, 06:34 pm: ebay looks like the least expensive option...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hi-Fi-Tuning-Supreme-20mm-x-5mm-Fuse-2-5A-F/291183659676?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3Deb29a0196cb0416cb46d3f89414f1f4a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D291150436677%26itm%3D291183659676&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hi-Fi-Tuning-Supreme-20mm-x-5mm-Fuse-2-5A-F/291183659676?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3Deb29a0196cb0416cb46d3f89414f1f4a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D291150436677%26itm%3D291183659676&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1)
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 28 Feb 2018, 06:38 pm: That's not US dollars. Where do you live?
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 28 Feb 2018, 06:49 pm: Quote from: Genez on 28 Feb 2018, 06:38 pm
That's not US dollars. Where do you live?

Canada, and the ebay listing works out to be more than $30 cheaper with shipping (to my place) factored in.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 28 Feb 2018, 07:45 pm: As long as they are not only showing you a picture of the Hi Fi Tuning fuse 'Supreme?' And, not selling a Hi Fi Tuning fuse 'gold?' Then, its a better price. Because the "Gold" sells for the price you were looking at.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 28 Feb 2018, 08:09 pm: The ad states very clearly... "Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme 20mm x 5mm Fuse - 2.5A (F)" In fact the ad says "Supreme" several times throughout the ad ... and the seller has perfect feedback.

So I placed an order. No sure what to expect though; my DAC-10 has over 3000 hours on it now, so I think it's safe to say it is broken in. :lol:
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 28 Feb 2018, 08:37 pm: Quote from: Wind Chaser on 28 Feb 2018, 08:09 pm

So I placed an order. No sure what to expect though; my DAC-10 has over 3000 hours on it now, so I think it's safe to say it is broken in. :lol:

Perfect time to try a good fuse. For you know how your DAC sounds consistently. Just remember to try the fuse in both directions to see which sounds best.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: dburna on 28 Feb 2018, 11:40 pm: Windchaser, I have a DAC10 and will be watching your "field report" with great interest.

-dGB
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 1 Mar 2018, 05:09 pm: Well, I am a bit skeptical about all the claims they make...

“Hi-Fi Tuning of Berlin-Germany has released a new highest performing version of their industry-leading fuses called "Supreme". The latest development of HiFi-Tuning from Germany is the unplated "Supreme" fuse. More speed, dynamics, enhanced clarity, improved three-dimensionality results from the outstanding fuse materials, an alloy from 99% pure silver and 1% pure gold, tip-to-tip, caps and burn-wire! The anti-resonant ceramic fuse body is retained - inside the ceramic body is an additional anti-resonance tube, and of course HiFi-Tuning is the only fuse manufacturer capable of producing fuses with a silver/gold alloy burn wire. Why is this important? Because in all other upgrade fuses, the copper-based burn wire will degrade over time due to oxidation - silver oxide is a good conductor. And of course all HiFi-Tuning fuses are deep cryo treated!”
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: rustydoglim on 2 Mar 2018, 03:56 am: :duh:
"More speed, dynamics, enhanced clarity, improved three-dimensionality" WTF ?
No wonder high-end audio is dead.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 2 Mar 2018, 04:39 am: Its system dependent.... I could change a fuse in one system and nothing will be noticed. In another system it will be evident and beneficial. There are too many variables involved to think just one tweak works the same with every system.

That is why these arguments go nowhere. Each person has to find out for himself. If he wants to.

Hi end audio is dying (to some extent) because hi quality music is no longer being produced. Its hard to find.

All we seem to get today is mostly politically correct musicianship. Or, too raunchy to grace the speakers of a fine system. There are no more musicians who perform with a twinkle in their eye. People have been brainwashed by political correctness for too long.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 2 Mar 2018, 05:13 am: I try to be reasonably open minded. I'll try almost anything once, twice if I like it.

I have yet to hear a power cord make anything I would call a real improvement. A fuse is kind a of like a power cord in the sense it's a conduit for raw power. To my mind if the power that flows through it is a problem, I don't see how a power cord or a fuse can correct that. But as I said, I'll try almost anything once, so we'll see what happens. The fuse should arrive somewhere between 03/07 and 03/14.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: rustydoglim on 2 Mar 2018, 09:50 am: Just to be clear, I am annoyed by products with outrageous claims but in no way disrespect to Genez's observation and comment. I have exchanged a lot of emails with him for various stuff, and he is one of the most knowledgeable audiophile I have known and respect.

Genez, keep up the good work. :thumb:
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 2 Mar 2018, 04:01 pm: Thanks, Jason!
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 2 Mar 2018, 04:13 pm: Quote from: Genez on 2 Mar 2018, 04:39 am
Its system dependent.... I could change a fuse in one system and nothing will be noticed. In another system it will be evident and beneficial. There are too many variables involved to think just one tweak works the same with every system.

Are you suggesting that the DAC-10 in two different systems (with this fuse in both DAC-10’s) could make a difference in one and not the other? If so, how so?
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Genez on 2 Mar 2018, 04:37 pm: Quote from: Wind Chaser on 2 Mar 2018, 04:13 pm
Are you suggesting that the DAC-10 in two different systems (with this fuse in both DAC-10’s) could make a difference in one and not the other? If so, how so?

If someone's system is not transparent to begin with? Tweaks mean little. Lots of people listen to systems that are dull sounding compared to real music. Or, way too sharp. Those who learn how to set up properly and worked towards transparency, will benefit the most from the tweaks.

Many apparently have no idea that speaker polarity will make a difference in what's heard. But, its good to pursue only if the system is phase coherent to reveal it.

In the mean time. Try the fuse. :D Audio is a discipline that requires gaining an education... one lesson at a time.
Title: Re: Dac 10 fuse
Post by: Wind Chaser on 2 Mar 2018, 04:50 pm: Quote from: Genez on 2 Mar 2018, 04:37 pm
If someone's system is not transparent to begin with? Tweaks mean little. Lots of people listen to systems that are dull sounding compared to real music. Or, way too sharp. Those who learn how to set up properly and worked towards transparency, will benefit the most from the tweaks.

Okay, that’s good to know. I will report what I find in due course.