Crossover point

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RookieSQ

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Crossover point
« on: 2 Oct 2014, 12:33 am »
I'm building a two way OB (fullrange with a woofer assisting) and had a quick question regarding crossover points. My assumption is to keep the crossover point as low as possible and let the Fullrange do as much work as it can comfortably.
Is this correct? What other factors should I look at?

FullRangeMan

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Re: Crossover point
« Reply #1 on: 2 Oct 2014, 11:29 am »
I'm building a two way OB (fullrange with a woofer assisting) and had a quick question regarding crossover points. My assumption is to keep the crossover point as low as possible and let the Fullrange do as much work as it can comfortably.
Is this correct? What other factors should I look at?
What is the FR? What is the woofer? What is your amp?
With a 15'' woofer general dyers opinons agree on 280-290Hz w/a 4.7mH inductor:
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/goertz-14-awg/goertz-cf4.7-14-awg-copper-foil-inductor/
Note there is no crossover, just this inductor.

If boxed woofer is suited to you try this to a 160-200Lts Bass Reflex box:
http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-15w800a-15-alto-series-professional-woofer-8-ohm--294-2746
Specs:
http://prvaudio.com/pdf/15W800A_Datasheet.pdf

12'' woofers are rarely used due need of two or more drivers.

JCS

Re: Crossover point
« Reply #2 on: 2 Oct 2014, 01:37 pm »
You may already be aware of this, but just in case:
XO design for OB is different from XO design for box style speakers.  The acoustic XO point may be different from the electrical XO point.  And the final response curve is determined by the driver's characteristics, baffle response, and the XO-- plus all the boundary/room effects...

Have a look at MJK's site:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Theory.html

Cheers,  Jim

richidoo

Re: Crossover point
« Reply #3 on: 2 Oct 2014, 05:58 pm »
I'm building a two way OB (fullrange with a woofer assisting) and had a quick question regarding crossover points. My assumption is to keep the crossover point as low as possible and let the Fullrange do as much work as it can comfortably.
Is this correct? What other factors should I look at?

That's about right, but you don't want it too low or else dynamics and SPL will be limited, as well as risk damage to the FR if too much power is applied at LF. If you need high SPL for loud rock, then raise the xo to limit excursion. Just remember that the FR has its own natural rolloff, which will combine in steepness with any electrical xo you apply. You want the net freq response  of the FR and the woofers to be flat throughout the xo band. But there may be baffle step and OB cancellation happening near your crossover freq also.

If you are not a head banger, you might consider playing the FR naked, with no electrical filter. Then it's own natural rolloff will be its high pass. Then adjust the woofer low pass filter to blend with the FR driver. The FR rolloff will be the sum of falling acoustic impedance, baffle step and OB side wave cancellation, so it will be pretty steep where these three combine. You have to be careful that you don't overdrive it. Usually you can hear bottoming before any damage, but that's risky. Proceed carefully until you get to know what it can handle safely. Some FR have very limited excursion. Others will have no problem if you mind their recommended power rating.

If you make the crossover freq equal to the baffle step freq then you can simplify the BSC by applying it only to the woofers. But you have to design the baffle width to complement the desired crossover freq. A 15" woofer needs 18" wide baffle whose BS is 250Hz, about right for most 6" FR drivers. If you do this, then the woofer low pass filter must remain 2nd order or lower.

Open Baffle also has LF cancellation effects to deal with. when the wavelength of a driver gets longer than the baffle width, the front and back waves from the same speaker cancel each other out, increasing with falling freq. Another factor you have to correct with xo. It happens at tha same freq as baffle step, so you can just make the BSC steeper. in a box speaker it would need 3-6db boost, but with ob, it might need 6-10dB depending on room, taste, acoustics, baffle width, baffle shape, etc.

Have you considered doing an active crossover? It can make all these adjustments very simple compared to doing a passive crossover.

RookieSQ

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Re: Crossover point
« Reply #4 on: 4 Oct 2014, 04:42 am »
I have considered going active and probably will eventually. For now, I'm limiting myself to passive to keep myself within budget.

I've gone over lots of choices for woofers, but due to space limitations (had to keep the speaker smaller to keep my wife happy), I chose to use a Dayton 225P woofer in a vented cabinet. The F3 is 45Hz. The Fullrange is the EL70. I have already built the baffle and am currently listening to the EL70 without a crossover. It plays more than loud enough on its own. I just need to add more low extension. I've also ordered a proper mic so that I can measure the speakers with REW. From my own test with an SPL meter, I'm getting extension well below 300Hz as it is.
I'm starting with a 300Hz high pass and a 200Hz low pass for the woofer. The Dayton is about 6db more efficient than the EL70, so I wanted a gap between the two speakers.
I don't plan on using any BSC. I'm not sure how it would apply to my build?
The baffle is 12" at it's widest point and curves to about 10" at it narrowest.