Fess up! How far did you get with Philips Golden Ears Challenge?

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ajzepp

You've proven that you're a troll, and so I would expect a little boy like you to be reprimanded.

This is getting awkward, Dale...out of respect to Milford the Great, feel free to take the last word  :thumb:

neobop

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Dale, this is a public message board...if you make a seemingly wild accusation or implication, chances are you run the risk of someone commenting. You asked me what kind of weed I'm smoking, and I'd say it's the common sense weed. The idea that Phillips is trying to hatch some evil plot to secretly train people to prefer Phillips headphones is one that I happen to find a little out there. When there is full disclosure of the company who designed it, the purpose for why it was created, and the choice to participate or not, I'd say it's pretty unlikely that there are any shenanigans going on. I'm not sure I get the comparison to commercials on television, so I won't touch that one.

I don't see what's far fetched about Philips tailoring the response, so differences show up readily on their headphones.  Most manufacturers would.  Just because you don't have to participate doesn't change that.  The fact of the matter is, something like this could be very popular and could be a big selling point for headphones that help people more easily become 'golden ears". 

Is this strictly a service to audiophools, or is it also a marketing tool?  I seriously doubt the former, but I also wonder about the extent of the later.  Just compare the timbre anomalies with response curves of different phones.

Thanks Dalethorn for pointing that out.

neo

Devil Doc

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You've proven that you're a troll, and so I would expect a little boy like you to be reprimanded.
You really aren't very good at this, so maybe you should take a time out before someone makes a fool out of you.

Doc

Devil Doc

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I'm not blaming you. I just said you're not very good at this sort of thing and the more you post the more you prove my point.

Doc

*Scotty*

Having gotten as far as the beginning of gold level using loudspeakers and no phones, I could not detect any evidence of response tailoring. In fact I was unaware
that the test was even supposed to be done with headphones.
Scotty

Russtafarian

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I’m stuck.  For that particular test track, the 12 kHz ceiling is beyond me.  I guess my 50 year old hearing is not quite golden.

ajzepp

I don't see what's far fetched about Philips tailoring the response, so differences show up readily on their headphones.  Most manufacturers would.  Just because you don't have to participate doesn't change that.  The fact of the matter is, something like this could be very popular and could be a big selling point for headphones that help people more easily become 'golden ears". 

Is this strictly a service to audiophools, or is it also a marketing tool?  I seriously doubt the former, but I also wonder about the extent of the later.  Just compare the timbre anomalies with response curves of different phones.

Thanks Dalethorn for pointing that out.

neo




Of course it's a marketing tool...why wouldn't ANY business want to promote their products and/or company?  I don't know if you've read the info on the site, but it's pretty clear that they offer FULL disclosure of what it is.

Case in point (taken from the website):

We know that we are not alone in this obsession with sound, which is why we are inviting you to take our Golden Ears challenge.

Our unique Golden Ears training program was designed to develop the listening skills of our audio engineers.

This online challenge contains the essential elements of our professional Golden Ears training program.


I think it's plainly obvious that they are openly stating this is THEIR approach to discerning various aspects of audio reproduction and it's the way they train their own people. The emphasis on "our" was mine, of course, but the point is that it's pretty clear they aren't making any attempt to be devious or try to trick people in some way.

Doublej

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Far enough to get frustrated at the load times and abandon it.

ajzepp

I'm apparently having a brain fart or mine isn't loading properly. The first question I came to says to pick which option is "brighter or darker" than the original, and there are three choices, A, B, or C. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

EDIT: Ah, for some reason the page before with the original track didn't load for me...makes sense now

neobop

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Of course it's a marketing tool...why wouldn't ANY business want to promote their products and/or company?  I don't know if you've read the info on the site, but it's pretty clear that they offer FULL disclosure of what it is.

Case in point (taken from the website):

We know that we are not alone in this obsession with sound, which is why we are inviting you to take our Golden Ears challenge.

Our unique Golden Ears training program was designed to develop the listening skills of our audio engineers.

This online challenge contains the essential elements of our professional Golden Ears training program.


I think it's plainly obvious that they are openly stating this is THEIR approach to discerning various aspects of audio reproduction and it's the way they train their own people. The emphasis on "our" was mine, of course, but the point is that it's pretty clear they aren't making any attempt to be devious or try to trick people in some way.

Are you capable of stating anything other than their come-on? 
What makes you think there isn't a deliberate attempt to make their phones seem more revealing than other brands?  Do all phones have the same response curve?  Could their ear training program actually be "proof" of Philips superiority?

"I don't know if you've read the info on the site, but it's pretty clear that they offer FULL disclosure of what it is."

"it's pretty clear they aren't making any attempt to be devious or try to trick people in some way."

Nonsense, you don't know anything of the sort.  You know what they say, but you don't know how the response aberrations were chosen. 
I'm saying it's not so cut and dry.  They'd be foolish not to take the opportunity to stack the deck as much as possible.  It's not only their phones that might benefit, but if you think it's not possible, think again.
neo




*Scotty*

Neo, I am not seeing any direct connection to the use of headphones during taking the test on the site. Is this mentioned if you sign up and create a profile. I did not do this and may have missed something.
Scotty

low.pfile

I was intrigues. I thought maybe a final test to show me my hearing sucked and therefore I should stop searching for audio nirvana and buying a variety of nuanced audio boxes. So I tried the Philips Golden Ears Challenge site. and to drown out my loud fridge, used my non-audiophile senheisser 280 headphones [funny, since I didn't even pay attention to which Circle this was posted in]. And halfway through I dropped the headphones for my computer monitor set up. I made it all the way through Basic. and then had the desire to listen to music. I shall not return to the challenge.


neobop

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Scotty,
As soon as you get on the site there's a pr of Philips phones on the far right.  Do they even make speakers anymore?  I didn't sign up either.  I went through the training using my PC speakers.  I was on the last one, loudness, hit the button to take the test - no problem.  Then I went to the beginning, that vocal track with timbre.  I was second from the end and it was getting hard to hear so I switched to phones.  It was worse!!  The phones aren't that bad, Jaycar Digitech.  They're also sold as Fischer and Einstein something or others.  Maybe if I got out my T50rp it would have been easier.

That got me thinking that the test probably favors some phones over others.  The Digitech have a fat middle and lower treble and it really was harder to tell.  Usually I can hear detail, timbre, pitch etc. better with phones.  I use the Digitech mostly for movies, TV, but my PC speakers are Pioneer 6 1/2" coax car speakers in a sealed/stuffed box w/sub.  Maybe not the utmost finesse, but they have flat response.
neo

ajzepp

Are you capable of stating anything other than their come-on? 
What makes you think there isn't a deliberate attempt to make their phones seem more revealing than other brands?  Do all phones have the same response curve?  Could their ear training program actually be "proof" of Philips superiority?

"I don't know if you've read the info on the site, but it's pretty clear that they offer FULL disclosure of what it is."

"it's pretty clear they aren't making any attempt to be devious or try to trick people in some way."

Nonsense, you don't know anything of the sort.  You know what they say, but you don't know how the response aberrations were chosen. 
I'm saying it's not so cut and dry.  They'd be foolish not to take the opportunity to stack the deck as much as possible.  It's not only their phones that might benefit, but if you think it's not possible, think again.
neo

I can tell you exactly why. Because they know darn well that the headphone/audio community is full of people like Tyll and others who are very proficient in terms of audio theory and analysis of objective data, and you would have to be a complete idiot to even take the risk of someone like that exposing you. There are thousands of people in this hobby who could very easily discern such a motivation!

There would be FAR more to lose than to gain, and Philips is a huge company with their hand in all sorts of different types of electronics, lighting, healthcare, and whatever else. To think they they are trying to hatch a scheme to sell a few more headphones, when negative press from such an operation could yield a huge black eye, is completely asinine.

But hey, that's just my opinion...I'm still trying to recover from the denial and abuse!  :lol:

*Scotty*

Neo, I used this link, https://www.goldenears.philips.com/en/introduction.html
and "saw" no headphones at all. I guess I saw the headphones and the image didn't stick.
I never did go to the main Phillips site. Now that I think about it, I did see the headphones on the far right, as well as the other images of an oldtime radio and a couple loudspeakers one identifiable as Fedelio?
Scotty

toocool4

dalethorn I really don’t see why or how you are seeing some conspiracy theory here? Doing this test would not influence me to buy Philips headphones unless I think it’s good.

The test is fun and interesting which is why I did it. Why don’t you just do the test or not and stop trying to make out that the people who took the challenge must be stupid or brain washed.

You are entitled to your opinion but it looks like most people are not interested, looking at your comments on Headfonia they are not interested either. Most people here just want to have some fun with like-minded people.

ajzepp

Wow, I didn't even see Dale's debate going on over at Headfonia until TooCool just mentioned it...he's been on this for over two weeks now apparently.

http://www.headfonia.com/the-golden-ears-training-program-by-philips/#


neobop

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I don't think there is any giant conspiracy to dupe the headphone community, that could be revealed and embarrass Philips. 

I do think the amplitude aberrations chosen, i.e. the specific frequencies, some emphasized, some diminished, could easily be chosen to favor some phones over others. For example, look at the peak highest in frequency on the timbre test (#1).  It's a large peak at 9KHz.  Doesn't that happen to coincide with the response of some headphones?  Wouldn't a set of phones that have such a response peak tend to reveal that distortion more readily?

That's just one example, but I noticed that intermediate treble frequencies weren't marked, so it would be hard to compare their recorded distortions with known response of phones.  Logic would dictate that frequencies would be emphasized or diminished equally on all phones.  I don't think it's that simple.

This is a great marketing gimmick and Philips would be foolish not to make the most of it.  Take the test with a set of Fidelio TOTL phones and see how easy it is to get your golden ears badge.  It's not like they have the only phones that make it easier.....
neo

ajzepp

You guys are not only paranoid, you're obsessed. I've told you under-educated and obsessed types to look into common business practices, patterns of behavior, competitive spying, stealing secrets, corporate lying (i.e. public relations) - all very normal business practices, but your paranoia here has you seeing tinfoil hats and boogeymen instead.

When you grow up and stop acting like children and join the real world, maybe then you can graduate to the next level. But, if you're still able to read, you might look up Ed Bernays book on P.R. - now what was that title? Oh yes, propaganda. And you need to read, because you're doing poorly here. In the USA, we call it "business as usual".

Looking forward to your next headphone review Dale!  :thumb:

Devil Doc

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Who's paranoid and obsessed? Projecting now are we? That's a very, very unhealthy defense mechanism.

Doc