BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC

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Phil A

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #760 on: 26 Nov 2014, 06:10 pm »
Hi

I will give it more thought but maybe some kind of 'trade up' program over some specified period of time makes some sense?

james

James, I think that is great.  All I'm really trying to say that once a decision is made to release something, it really helps to communicate it (and over the years I've found many dealers who don't even know release is pending or has even occurred - they get behind and don't update their binders/price sheets).  Correct me if I'm wrong, was not the first place of the BDA-3 being shown at TAVES at the end of October?  At some point a decision was made that it was ready to show as a prototype.  All I was trying to say that perhaps in the latest news when that decision was made (September, beginning of October?) a little blurb that "Bryston will be showcasing their products at the upcoming TAVES to be held on xx-xx-xxxx at the 'name of location.' Bryston will be exhibiting and in addition to the current product line a new BDA-3 DAC.  The BDA-2 will remain in the Bryston product line.  The BDA-3 adds DSD capability.  Price and exact release date of the BDA-3 are not know at this time but it is anticipated more information will be available in early 2015."

mav52

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #761 on: 26 Nov 2014, 08:44 pm »
Quote
  Hi

    I will give it more thought but maybe some kind of 'trade up' program over some specified period of time makes some sense?

    james


James, I think that is great.  All I'm really trying to say that once a decision is made to release something, it really helps to communicate it (and over the years I've found many dealers who don't even know release is pending or has even occurred - they get behind and don't update their binders/price sheets).  Correct me if I'm wrong, was not the first place of the BDA-3 being shown at TAVES at the end of October?  At some point a decision was made that it was ready to show as a prototype.  All I was trying to say that perhaps in the latest news when that decision was made (September, beginning of October?) a little blurb that "Bryston will be showcasing their products at the upcoming TAVES to be held on xx-xx-xxxx at the 'name of location.' Bryston will be exhibiting and in addition to the current product line a new BDA-3 DAC.  The BDA-2 will remain in the Bryston product line.  The BDA-3 adds DSD capability.  Price and exact release date of the BDA-3 are not know at this time but it is anticipated more information will be available in early 2015."

Come on James.   You can do two things here.

Sure offer an upgrade problems for those with a BDA-2  but you also need to at least mention the arrival of a new product. 

I agree with Phil above,   I saw the BDA-3 on another website, which is not the way it should have been introduced.  That should occur from a Bryston news release.  You have the tools of your website,  use the power of that site to show possible product upgrades and new introductions.

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #762 on: 26 Nov 2014, 08:50 pm »
Come on James.   You can do two things here.

Sure offer an upgrade problems for those with a BDA-2  but you also need to at least mention the arrival of a new product. 

I agree with Phil above,   I saw the BDA-3 on another website, which is not the way it should have been introduced.  That should occur from a Bryston news release.  You have the tools of your website,  use the power of that site to show possible product upgrades and new introductions.

Gee's things seem to be getting a little hostile here!

james


mav52

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #763 on: 26 Nov 2014, 09:56 pm »
Gee's things seem to be getting a little hostile here!

james

James not hostile at all just good business sense.  If your company would let potential customers know about new products that could mean new sells.  If you think that my comments are hostile then my order for one of these units in 2015 is not going to happen.  Thanks

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #764 on: 26 Nov 2014, 10:46 pm »
James not hostile at all just good business sense.  If your company would let potential customers know about new products that could mean new sells.  If you think that my comments are hostile then my order for one of these units in 2015 is not going to happen.  Thanks

Well you do what you think best. As for me I am bowing out of this thread.

James
« Last Edit: 1 Dec 2014, 01:11 pm by James Tanner »

ebogda01

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #765 on: 26 Nov 2014, 10:48 pm »
Well you do what you think best. As for me I am lying out of this thread.

James

No, James. Not this time.... Did you hear about "United throws guitars..." If you don't want that kind of publicity you should change your tone here in this thread.

Rod_S

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #766 on: 27 Nov 2014, 02:28 am »
In my opinion some of you guys are seriously over reacting here. Nothing happened with respect to the BDA-3 announcement that does not happen with other manufacturers and their future products. As a rule the Bryston website is no more or no less accurate then the vast majority of other websites with respect to product announcements, or lack thereof and is so often the case new products are first mentioned in A/V sites anyways. There is also always going to be instances where you buy a product today and literally tomorrow a new product is announced, tough s&^* that's how it goes. Sometimes we get what we might want to call burned but that's how it goes. I fail to see how that is the fault of the manufacturer. I think that's more of a thing for you and your dealer in that he offers a trade in or % refund if you want to return your newly purchased product within a few days or perhaps a couple weeks of purchase and you wait for the new one to come out. Also whose to say said product will meet expected shipping dates, something might come up to delay it, weeks, months, a year. I've seen it happen. I waited what seemed an eternity (over a year) for the Anthem D1 to come to market after it was first announced so long in fact I gave up on waiting and went another route back in 2004.

Also I personally see no need for a trade up program for such a relatively inexpensive product especially when the current product will not disappear. Those types of things in my mind are typically reserved for much more expensive products like say SSP's or Transparent Audio cables :)

ebogda01

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #767 on: 27 Nov 2014, 02:53 am »
In my opinion some of you guys are seriously over reacting here. Nothing happened with respect to the BDA-3 announcement that does not happen with other manufacturers and their future products. As a rule the Bryston website is no more or no less accurate then the vast majority of other websites with respect to product announcements, or lack thereof and is so often the case new products are first mentioned in A/V sites anyways. There is also always going to be instances where you buy a product today and literally tomorrow a new product is announced, tough s&^* that's how it goes. Sometimes we get what we might want to call burned but that's how it goes. I fail to see how that is the fault of the manufacturer. I think that's more of a thing for you and your dealer in that he offers a trade in or % refund if you want to return your newly purchased product within a few days or perhaps a couple weeks of purchase and you wait for the new one to come out. Also whose to say said product will meet expected shipping dates, something might come up to delay it, weeks, months, a year. I've seen it happen. I waited what seemed an eternity (over a year) for the Anthem D1 to come to market after it was first announced so long in fact I gave up on waiting and went another route back in 2004.

Also I personally see no need for a trade up program for such a relatively inexpensive product especially when the current product will not disappear. Those types of things in my mind are typically reserved for much more expensive products like say SSP's or Transparent Audio cables :)

It has nothing to do with the web site by now... It's the reaction of a person that happens to hold a marketing position with our beloved manufacturer and allows himself to react to purposefully polite and peaceful comments by the customers in the way that is not and should not be tolerated.

Grit

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  • - Garrett
Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #768 on: 27 Nov 2014, 07:45 am »
I think it makes sense that Bryston's website should have information about Bryston products (or up-and-coming products) that is as accurate or more accurate than other publications.

I also understand the feeling of wanting to have the latest and greatest. Unfortunately, there's NO way to solve that problem. If someone buys a BDA-2 and then one day later Bryston's website says they hope to release a BDA-3 in 3-6 months, you're still subject to that feeling of missing out on the latest & greatest. I don't see how Bryston (or any other company) can possibly fix that. The closest option is a trade-up program.

Regardless, none of these things diminish or tarnish Bryston's long standing great reputation for quality products and excellent customer service, and they don't degrade or devalue the Bryston products anyone currently owns.

- Garrett

Tympani

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #769 on: 27 Nov 2014, 12:25 pm »
As a BDA-2 owner who bought my unit with the early hopes of DSD capability down the road, only to find that would not happen, I had started researching other DACs until the BDA-3 "announcement" came out. But since I bought my unit over 1 year ago, I certainly don't feel cheated. That's technology and progress. I personally feel an "upgrade/trade-in" option is a fair approach, and hope Bryston pursues this path.

The angry tones in this discussion are unfortunate, but probably not surprising. James et al have deservedly enjoyed a cozy relationship in this forum, with mutual benefit. When a manufacturer's marketing perspective runs counter to that coziness, pretty much any position can fuel the conflict. I hope we don't toss out the good will that's been nurtured in this dialog.

And hey, what if the BDA-3 doesn't sound as sweet as the BDA-2? What will we do then :lol:

sputnikcdn

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #770 on: 27 Nov 2014, 03:09 pm »
James not hostile at all just good business sense.  If your company would let potential customers know about new products that could mean new sells.  If you think that my comments are hostile then my order for one of these units in 2015 is not going to happen.  Thanks

Your tone of writing could easily be taken for hostility. Remember that written words can come across far more harshly than spoken.

And, really, you're so defensive that you let a comment your writing guide your audio purchases?

R. Daneel

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #771 on: 27 Nov 2014, 03:21 pm »
Hi fellas!

The BDA-3 is significantly more expensive than the BDA-2 so if the person complaining here wanted to spend more than the BDA-2 costs, why didn't he/she buy something else from a different manufacturer in the first place? Was he/she looking for DSD compatibility or not?

It is up to each and every individual to read more than the first three lines of text before deciding on what to purchase. It is fine not to but thigs will get more expensive if you do not and it will happen sooner than you realise.

Choosing equipment is a lengthy process but an utterly rewarding one. As far as I can see, Bryston's equipment that dates to early years of the company is still enjoyed and loved and guess what, I bet the original owners read more than the first three lines of the brochure they accidentelly picked up at the dealer.
So I find myself in complete agreement with James here.

Cheers!
Antun

Phil A

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #772 on: 27 Nov 2014, 03:53 pm »

I also understand the feeling of wanting to have the latest and greatest. Unfortunately, there's NO way to solve that problem. If someone buys a BDA-2 and then one day later Bryston's website says they hope to release a BDA-3 in 3-6 months, you're still subject to that feeling of missing out on the latest & greatest. I don't see how Bryston (or any other company) can possibly fix that. The closest option is a trade-up program.



- Garrett

I agree.  That's going to happen.  There's no way to fix it 100% of the time, especially with digital (or video) which changes rapidly.  I was just trying to say that when a new product is announced as upcoming it probably is good practice to have it on your own website.  I do understand when something is under development a company may not want to disclose certain things.  When someone is looking for a new product of a certain type and a certain feature and they have relied upon a company's site to make their decision, offense should not be taken for suggestions (not dictating as I understand someone else who capital at stake should make their own decisions) for help minimize those things going forward. 

I don't know the circumstances on the purchase (what was discussed with the dealer) or where or when it took place but certainly in many US States there are State Consumer Protection authorities that can address the issue.  If I bought something from a dealer and felt like I got not up-to-date information (which was put out on websites and it can be presumed that a dealer representing ta particular company should know more than the public, I would ask the dealer to do something or pursue complaints.  That's the difference between dealing with a company that uses a dealer network vs. one that sells direct to consumers.  The relationship is between the buyer and seller and when they are not the same, I think it is more appropriate to take it up with the seller.  That's just my opinion.  A seller in a local community that has to deal with local customers (and their friends, family) is probably going to be more receptive has he has to face the customers.  I agree that tone can be easily misinterpreted easily in a medium like this.  To make a long story short, many moons ago I had trouble getting a benefit at a company for a few months.  A guy who came to work for me got it set up in couple of weeks.  I made a nice inquiry (which got forwarded to the human resources person) into why there was a problem and got a written response "to the person who asks, I resent it."  She should have put "re-sent."  I did not appreciate being resented  :lol: and sent an e-mail all the way up the chain to the VP of human resources.  It was a good laugh for years afterwards.

Xinon

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #773 on: 27 Nov 2014, 09:03 pm »
What Bryston does not understand is that I am the boss, and unless they do as I want, I will buy something else .....or cry  :lol:

Today most of the new products hit the Internet before they are officially announced.


mav52

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #774 on: 27 Nov 2014, 10:48 pm »
Your tone of writing could easily be taken for hostility. Remember that written words can come across far more harshly than spoken.

And, really, you're so defensive that you let a comment your writing guide your audio purchases?

No where in my comments was anything hostile.  James chose the word.  And it's my choice if I want to purchase a product or not.  I mentioned right after I actually brought the announcement of the BDA-3 to AC in a Bryston post that I was going to purchase the new product, but James decides that my comments about adding new products to their website is hostile then I have a right to not purchase his product based on his comments.   That is his lost and his business.  After all I'm a customer.

Anyway carry on I'm sure the BDA-3 product will be fantastic and I wish him nothing but success.

mnorman

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #775 on: 28 Nov 2014, 02:54 pm »
I've been in the shadows  for quite awhile on this site(great info) and would like to throw in my 2 cents. With the trend in DACs being DSD for some time now I held off on purchasing a BDA-2 as I did not want to feel that I missed out. With the help of this board it was obvious a DSD ability has hit a snag with the BDA-2 and the market has spoken regarding the demand of DSD capable DACs.
Now that I've waited I'd like this thread to get back on track and discuss the particulars off the new DAC and not Bryston's marketing decisions :D
Does the new DAC have the ability to up sample any signal to DSD? Are there significant differences between the BDA-2 and 3 (other than HDMI and DSD)on how it sounds?
I love the ability to have a upgrade path for my  SACD collection. Having said that I'm surprised at the major increase in price and wonder if it is worth it as the vast majority of music is PCM.
Cheers

Phil A

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #776 on: 28 Nov 2014, 05:08 pm »
I've been in the shadows  for quite awhile on this site(great info) and would like to throw in my 2 cents. With the trend in DACs being DSD for some time now I held off on purchasing a BDA-2 as I did not want to feel that I missed out. With the help of this board it was obvious a DSD ability has hit a snag with the BDA-2 and the market has spoken regarding the demand of DSD capable DACs.
Now that I've waited I'd like this thread to get back on track and discuss the particulars off the new DAC and not Bryston's marketing decisions :D
Does the new DAC have the ability to up sample any signal to DSD? Are there significant differences between the BDA-2 and 3 (other than HDMI and DSD)on how it sounds?
I love the ability to have a upgrade path for my  SACD collection. Having said that I'm surprised at the major increase in price and wonder if it is worth it as the vast majority of music is PCM.
Cheers

Welcome to the forum (from the shadows 8)

See post number 687 by James:

"Hi Antun

1. Yes the input section determines the type of signal coming in (DSD or PCM) and routes it to the appropriate circuitry inside the BDA3

2. I do not think you would find PCM sounding much different through the BDA2 or the BDA3. Most of the listening tests seem to support the premise (and has from the beginning of our DAC developments) that most quality DACs are within a hair of each other when it comes to technical performance on paper.  Where the larger issues are is in power supply integrity and type (analog vs switching), discrete analog fully balanced amplification circuit topology (not IC's), electrical noise etc. So the differences when it comes to these design features in the BDA2 and BDA3 are essentially the same.

3. Yes the BDP-1 will allow for DSD playback with the MM software and a USB 2 DAC.

Hope this helps.

james"

Phil A

Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #777 on: 28 Nov 2014, 05:09 pm »
I've been in the shadows  for quite awhile on this site(great info) and would like to throw in my 2 cents. With the trend in DACs being DSD for some time now I held off on purchasing a BDA-2 as I did not want to feel that I missed out. With the help of this board it was obvious a DSD ability has hit a snag with the BDA-2 and the market has spoken regarding the demand of DSD capable DACs.
Now that I've waited I'd like this thread to get back on track and discuss the particulars off the new DAC and not Bryston's marketing decisions :D
Does the new DAC have the ability to up sample any signal to DSD? Are there significant differences between the BDA-2 and 3 (other than HDMI and DSD)on how it sounds?
I love the ability to have a upgrade path for my  SACD collection. Having said that I'm surprised at the major increase in price and wonder if it is worth it as the vast majority of music is PCM.
Cheers

So I understand James' response if it is PCM - it gets decoded as PCM, if DSD, it gets decoded as DSD

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #778 on: 28 Nov 2014, 05:26 pm »
So I understand James' response if it is PCM - it gets decoded as PCM, if DSD, it gets decoded as DSD

Hi Phil,

Yes correct - that is my goal.

james

mnorman

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Re: BDA-2 DAC and BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #779 on: 28 Nov 2014, 07:02 pm »
Thanks for the clarification and the welcome as I misunderstood part 1 of post 687.  The BDA 1 and 2 were supposed to sound the same too hence the other part of my question seems relevant. As I don't plan to download too many DSD files my interest is in a)PCM improvement b)SACD playback and c) ability to selectively up sample as the ability to up sample or not is a huge plus and still is with bryston DACS. The ability to upsample to DSD would have been neat to play with. Not a deal breaker though :D