AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Tortuga Audio => Topic started by: tortugaranger on 6 Aug 2015, 05:44 pm
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We've been circling around the subject of power supply for quite some time here in Tortuga land. While there are numerous considerations and applications, the bottom line is we will be introducing a battery power supply product fairly soon. In fact, I'd like to have it ready for RMAF15 in Denver which is the 1st week of October - at least in final prototype if not production. Here's an update on what's coming with respect to the battery power supply.
First of all there's our existing lineup of LDR preamps which currently uses either an external linear regulated "wall wart" or an internal hybrid switch mode PS to provide 12 V. Our LDR controller board also uses 5 V that is also supplied via a DC-DC switch mode regulator with very nice specs. More recent investigations suggest we can achieve the best possible performance using clean DC power from a battery based supply. However, to get the maximum benefit from this approach we will be changing over to a 5V linear regulator with noise specs down in the handful of microvolts vs. the current few millivolts. Retrofitting existing controller boards/preamps with this new linear regulator is doable but challenging as it involves complete removal of the board from its chassis and careful desoldering/removal of the existing 3 pin regulator. If not done very carefully this can end badly with pulled traces and a bricked board. There are likely to be benefits to running off a battery supply even with the existing 5 V regulator left in place on existing units.
Next, we've been slowly working towards a solid state buffer design that will require a split voltage supply. It's essential that any buffer not degrade the sound quality of the LDR attenuator and that means a pristine source of power. Doesn't get more pristine than battery. As with the controller board itself, a buffer doesn't draw that much current so a decent size sealed lead acid battery with a few Amp-Hours of capacity will last a very long time (at least 24 hours of continuous use) running on battery power before needing to kick in the charger.
Closely linked with the solid state buffer is our future integrated headphone amp that will actually be variant of our buffer but with the necessary gain required to drive cans. This will also require a split level power supply which will be provided by batteries to ensure the best possible sound quality. Of course when using batteries (+12 V) and needing split level (+/- 12 volts), this means a pair of 12 V batteries (or single 24 V batterr) plus a rail splitter design to achieve a virtual ground. We believe we've identified a really nice approach to this where the same basic design can supply either just single +12 V or split +/-12V depending on how the board is populated with parts.
Going one step further we also have plans for a fully integrated LDR based amp. This amp will need a conventional "live" power supply that is beyond the practical limits of batteries. However, depending on how things go with the battery for the LDR controller and buffer, we may still include a battery as part of the integrated amp for everything but the amp driver stage itself.
Now, back to work! :thumb:
Best,
Morten
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I am super excited about the battery power. I would suggest that you use USB power to charge that battery. : ) Everyone has usb wall warts : )
Also we could use usb battery packs to charge the built in battery : )
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-battery-pack-travel/
Thanks
C
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I am super excited about the battery power. I would suggest that you use USB power to charge that battery. : ) Everyone has usb wall warts : )
Also we could use usb battery packs to charge the built in battery : )
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-battery-pack-travel/ (http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-battery-pack-travel/)
Thanks
C
As it turns out we've been trying out various approaches to battery charger design and have decide to use a 5 VDC USB source to power the charger. Internally we have to convert the 5 VDC to 12 or 24 VDC which is quite doable using a simple switching DC-DC converter. During normal operation off of the battery, the charger system gets disconnected from the charger circuit so there's no concern about noise bleed-through to the battery power. :thumb:
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Interested too... are you using Belleson regulators?
-R
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As it turns out we've been trying out various approaches to battery charger design and have decide to use a 5 VDC USB source to power the charger. Internally we have to convert the 5 VDC to 12 or 24 VDC which is quite doable using a simple switching DC-DC converter. During normal operation off of the battery, the charger system gets disconnected from the charger circuit so there's no concern about noise bleed-through to the battery power. :thumb:
Looks I'm going to have to back away from the above statement. After further development testing we've concluded that driving our battery/charger with a 5 VDC USB source simply isn't robust enough. Not that it couldn't be made to work but the current limitations of USB during charging was a constraint I didn't want to live with. More importantly we intend for this board design to be able to also supply a split rail +/- 10-12 VDC around a floating ground which will be driven by a pair of 12 volt batteries in series. This means charging into 24 volt system. Pumping 5 V up to 24+ needed for charging, while technically doable, was really pushing things especially given the current levels during charging. A split voltage isn't a requirement for the LDR preamp controller board which only needs +9 to 12 V but it is a requirement of our future SS buffer and headphone amp which will use this same board. So bottom line is the battery PS/charger will be run off an AC source and conventional rectified linear regulated DC. During normal operation the battery will be disconnected from the charging circuit.
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Interested too... are you using Belleson regulators?
-R
As things stand now the battery PS output for the LDR preamp controller will not be regulated but will instead be at the nominal voltage level of the battery which will likely never exceed 13.5 volts and will drift down towards 12 volts as the battery discharges. At 11.8-12.0 volts, a nominal 12 V sealed lead acid battery will be discharged down to 40% below which it's not recommended. At that level the charger will automatically kick in.
The LDR preamp controller doesn't require, nor would it benefit from, a regulated supply per se. The controller board doesn't require a high bandwidth dynamic power supply as do conventional preamps. It does however like clean, low noise power. The documentation on the LDR3x controller does strongly recommend a regulated 12 VDC supply but the reason for the regulation is to avoid exceeding the upper voltage limit of one of the board's op amps which goes snap, crackle pop somewhere around 16 V or so. Unregulated 12 V supplies can easily drift up into that range depending on the AC main voltage, transformer ratio etc. This concern can be avoided by opting for our high precision op amp upgrade which also benefits auto calibration accuracy.
To complicate the explanation the battery system does have on board regulators but their sole purpose is generating a split voltage supply with a floating ground. There will be 2 variations on this battery PS, let's call them PS12B1 and PS12B2. B1 will simply provide a nominal unregulated yet filtered 12 VDC direct from battery which will be for powering the LDR preamp controller board. B2 will provide split +12/-12 with floating ground for powering critical op amps etc on our future SS buffer and headphone amp.
The buffer and headphone amp will both have dedicated +/- low dropout linear regulators to firm up that split supply coming from the B2 battery but these regulators will be on the buffer/amp boards. We are planning on using regulators built around TI's TPS7A4700 low noise (~4 uV RMS) regulator chip. While no rival to Belleson's ultimate proprietary regulator, we'll be able to offer Belleson's as a potential upgrade.
While we could have put final +/- voltage output regulators in the B2 itself, it's best to have such regulators as close as possible to destination devices being powered.
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Sounds cool Morten, please add me to the queue for PS12B1...
-Roberto
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You mention SLAS - have you considered Nicd? Just curious
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You mention SLAS - have you considered Nicd? Just curious
While there are advantages to both, sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries are substantially lower cost, proven and reliable. NiCd would easily double/triple the cost (or more) of the final product. I found that difficult to justify. Once big advantage of NiCd is energy density but since we're going to use our existing enclosure designs we have room for high enough capacity SLA battery. NiCd is always an option in the future.
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I am using a specialised audio battery supply for my Tortuga LDR1 ,it is powered by a 12 volt 7 amp sealed lead acid battery (Yuasa).Designed with intelligent charge discharge cycles,and auto cut off when 10.5 v is reached(after a previous low battery warning).I hope to buy a newer model Tortuga soon.Do you know when Tortuga will switch to the newer spec internal power supply more suited to battery use?
http://www.kingrex.com/download/KingRex%20SLAP%20power%20supply%20unit%20-%20user%20manual.pdf
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/NP_7_12_DataSheet.pdf
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I am using a specialised audio battery supply for my Tortuga LDR1 ,it is powered by a 12 volt 7 amp sealed lead acid battery (Yuasa).Designed with intelligent charge discharge cycles,and auto cut off when 10.5 v is reached(after a previous low battery warning).I hope to buy a newer model Tortuga soon.Do you know when Tortuga will switch to the newer spec internal power supply more suited to battery use?
http://www.kingrex.com/download/KingRex%20SLAP%20power%20supply%20unit%20-%20user%20manual.pdf (http://www.kingrex.com/download/KingRex%20SLAP%20power%20supply%20unit%20-%20user%20manual.pdf)
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/NP_7_12_DataSheet.pdf (http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/NP_7_12_DataSheet.pdf)
We are close to finishing development work on the battery supply and expect to have the new "battery friendly" voltage regulator available for new builds in about 2 weeks. We plan on having the battery supply etc. up and running at RMAF in Denver next week. Production of all that will start later in October.
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Here is the currently conceived operating parameters and control logic for the PS12B. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions I welcome your inputs.
Please note that the PS12B has not been released yet and is still in final development.
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The PS12B is a nominal 12 VDC sealed lead acid (SLA) battery power supply combined with a "smart" charger system. The capacity will either be 5.7 Ah or 7.0 Ah - still finalizing battery selection.
The max current draw is 0.5 A above which a replaceable fuse will blow requiring the unit to be opened up to replace the fuse. The batteries should last for 2-5 year of normal usage, are replaceable and relatively inexpensive.
The objective is for the PS12B to be a hands-off automatic battery based power supply to the Tortuga preamps. Given that the normal current demand of the LDR3.V2 or LDRx is around 135 ma (~200 ma during auto-cal), the PS12B may be able to run the preamp for up to roughly 40 hours (5.7 Ah) to 50 hours (7 Ah) continuously before needing to be recharged. This is a best case scenario and actual time will likely be considerably less. Safe to say, there's more than adequate battery capacity to operate the Tortuga preamps for long listening periods lasting many hours if not all day before needing recharge. Even if almost fully discharged to minimum allowable voltage levels, the PS12B will fully recharge overnight.
The PS12B must be plugged into AC main power at all times in order to operate. The AC mains IEC input socket has an integral 1 A fuse. The PS12B can be pre-configured for either 120 VAC or 240 VAC mains power via an internal set of configurable jumpers.
Summary operational narrative:
The PS12B must be connected to AC main to operate. When not connected to AC main power, the battery output will remain disconnected to prevent over-draining and damaging the battery. In this respect, this is not a portable battery power supply. When connected to AC main power, the default state of the PS12B is for the battery to be connected to the charger and the battery to be connected and available to the user. To use the PS12B to power a Tortuga preamp you'll want to disconnect the charger and run off pure battery power. To disconnect the charger you connect the 12V Trigger out from the preamp to the PS12B. The 12V Trigger out will automatically disconnect the charger when you turn on the preamp and connect it again when you turn the preamp off. This is the preferred "hands off" method. You can also press the push button on the front panel to disconnect the charger. Press it again to connect the charger. If the charger remains disconnected, the battery will eventually discharge to the point where low voltage will automatically disconnect the battery and reconnect the charger. If this happens the PS12B won't be available to power the preamp until it's voltage level is back up above 12.1 volts.
When fully charged, the battery will be at between 13.5 and 14 volts. When voltage drops below 12.1 volts a warning light will come on. When it drops below 11.9 volts the battery will be disconnected and the charger will reconnect to the battery and the battery will remain unavailable until the voltage is back up above 12.1 volts. This automatic shutoff protects the battery from being damaged or shortening its useful life due to over-discharge.
Summarizing the front panel LEDs:
Green/Off - battery disconnected - not available (either because AC mains off or battery voltage too low)
Green/On - battery connected - available
Yellow/Off - charger disconnected
Yellow/On - charger connected to battery and charging battery
Red/Off - battery voltage ok (> 12.1 V)
Red/Blinking - battery voltage getting low (< 12.1 V) and needs charging - time to turn off the preamp
Red/On - battery voltage too low (< 11.9) - will automatically disconnect battery and turn on the charger
No LEDs lit - means the PS12B is not connected to AC main and the battery is not available
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Revising the control logic as follows:
Rather than shutting off the battery when voltage falls below a minimum threshold (11.9 volt), the battery will remain connected to power the preamp, however, the charger will be reconnected to prevent further draining of the battery. Under normal preamp load conditions this should prevent further draining of the battery since the charger is designed to deliver more charging current than the preamp draws thus the battery voltage should charge up.
The rationale behind this change is there's a potential downside to simply disconnecting power altogether from the Tortuga preamp while it's turned on and playing music. When power is removed from the LDRs there's a brief period (probably less than a second or so) when the loss of power causes in momentary jump in volume before shutting off. This is largely mitigated in preamps that have input switching but for those that have only a single direct wired input (no input switching relay), this volume surge can be disconcerting. So in an abundance of caution, best to not disconnect batter power and instead just reconnect the charger leaving the preamp powered.
Note, however, the following exceptions:
a) When the PS12B is connected to the preamp and controlled via the preamp 12 Volt Trigger output (the preferred control method), once the preamp is turned off and the 12 Volt Trigger signal goes off, the PS12B battery will also disconnect and remove power to the preamp until such time as the PS12B battery voltage increases to at least 12.1 volts.
b) When the PS12B gets powered up (connected to AC main) and if the battery voltage is below the safe 11.9 volt threshold, the battery will remain disconnected until battery voltage increases to at least 12.1 volts.
Here is the currently conceived operating parameters and control logic for the PS12B. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions I welcome your inputs.
Please note that the PS12B has not been released yet and is still in final development.
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The PS12B is a nominal 12 VDC sealed lead acid (SLA) battery power supply combined with a "smart" charger system. The capacity will either be 5.7 Ah or 7.0 Ah - still finalizing battery selection.
The max current draw is 0.5 A above which a replaceable fuse will blow requiring the unit to be opened up to replace the fuse. The batteries should last for 2-5 year of normal usage, are replaceable and relatively inexpensive.
The objective is for the PS12B to be a hands-off automatic battery based power supply to the Tortuga preamps. Given that the normal current demand of the LDR3.V2 or LDRx is around 135 ma (~200 ma during auto-cal), the PS12B may be able to run the preamp for up to roughly 40 hours (5.7 Ah) to 50 hours (7 Ah) continuously before needing to be recharged. This is a best case scenario and actual time will likely be considerably less. Safe to say, there's more than adequate battery capacity to operate the Tortuga preamps for long listening periods lasting many hours if not all day before needing recharge. Even if almost fully discharged to minimum allowable voltage levels, the PS12B will fully recharge overnight.
The PS12B must be plugged into AC main power at all times in order to operate. The AC mains IEC input socket has an integral 1 A fuse. The PS12B can be pre-configured for either 120 VAC or 240 VAC mains power via an internal set of configurable jumpers.
Summary operational narrative:
The PS12B must be connected to AC main to operate. When not connected to AC main power, the battery output will remain disconnected to prevent over-draining and damaging the battery. In this respect, this is not a portable battery power supply. When connected to AC main power, the default state of the PS12B is for the battery to be connected to the charger and the battery to be connected and available to the user. To use the PS12B to power a Tortuga preamp you'll want to disconnect the charger and run off pure battery power. To disconnect the charger you connect the 12V Trigger out from the preamp to the PS12B. The 12V Trigger out will automatically disconnect the charger when you turn on the preamp and connect it again when you turn the preamp off. This is the preferred "hands off" method. You can also press the push button on the front panel to disconnect the charger. Press it again to connect the charger. If the charger remains disconnected, the battery will eventually discharge to the point where low voltage will automatically disconnect the battery and reconnect the charger. If this happens the PS12B won't be available to power the preamp until it's voltage level is back up above 12.1 volts.
When fully charged, the battery will be at between 13.5 and 14 volts. When voltage drops below 12.1 volts a warning light will come on. When it drops below 11.9 volts the battery will be disconnected and the charger will reconnect to the battery and the battery will remain unavailable until the voltage is back up above 12.1 volts. This automatic shutoff protects the battery from being damaged or shortening its useful life due to over-discharge.
Summarizing the front panel LEDs:
Green/Off - battery disconnected - not available (either because AC mains off or battery voltage too low)
Green/On - battery connected - available
Yellow/Off - charger disconnected
Yellow/On - charger connected to battery and charging battery
Red/Off - battery voltage ok (> 12.1 V)
Red/Blinking - battery voltage getting low (< 12.1 V) and needs charging - time to turn off the preamp
Red/On - battery voltage too low (< 11.9) - will automatically disconnect battery and turn on the charger
No LEDs lit - means the PS12B is not connected to AC main and the battery is not available
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I am using a specialised audio battery supply for my Tortuga LDR1 ,it is powered by a 12 volt 7 amp sealed lead acid battery (Yuasa).Designed with intelligent charge discharge cycles,and auto cut off when 10.5 v is reached(after a previous low battery warning).I hope to buy a newer model Tortuga soon.Do you know when Tortuga will switch to the newer spec internal power supply more suited to battery use?
http://www.kingrex.com/download/KingRex%20SLAP%20power%20supply%20unit%20-%20user%20manual.pdf (http://www.kingrex.com/download/KingRex%20SLAP%20power%20supply%20unit%20-%20user%20manual.pdf)
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/NP_7_12_DataSheet.pdf (http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/NP_7_12_DataSheet.pdf)
I forgot to mention in my earlier reply that the 10.5 V auto cut off, if that's the correct value, is way too low a level for any sealed lead acid battery. Discharging down to that low a level will permanently damage a SLA battery. Note the discharge table below which is fairly typical of a 12 volt SLA. Anything below a 40% charge (60% discharge) will start to eat into a batteries useful life.
A related anecdote. I recently had a problem with my truck's alternator such that the trucks battery was completely drained 2-3 times over the last 2 months while sitting turned off in the driveway. Killed the battery. Would not hold a charge after that abuse.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=128272)
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We've had the Rev 5 prototype board running for several days now going through several cycles of discharge and charge using a simulated load drawing 200 ma and everything is nice and stable and there are no thermal issues. Charging current is limited to roughly 0.5 amp which is more than adequate to recharge the battery from a maximum 50% drained state (11.9 V) back to 100% at 14 volts overnight even when under the 200 ma load. :thumb:
Looking at the battery DC output waveform, it's dead quiet in the audio band plus out to several 100khz. There's a tiny bit of noise around the 16 megahertz range due to the presence of small microcontroller but that's totally inaudible. However, when the battery is connected to the charger there's a definite ripple in the voltage. The charger wasn't designed to be a low noise DC source so nothing surprising with that.
Based on the Rev 5 results we tweaked the design slightly and expect to have the Rev 6 proto board up and running later today. The Rev 6 board will go to RMAF in the demo unit and barring any surprises will be the final design for the Rev 0 production board. I expect to have production boards in our shop by the end of October. We will probably announce the release date of the PS12B after we get back from RMAF. I'm hoping for a Nov 1 release date. We'll offer it for pre-order at the same time we announce the release date. Pricing is still being finalized but I expect it will be comparable to most other battery based power supplies for audio applications.
To summarize the essential specs the PS12B is a nominal 3.5/7.0 Ah 12 volt sealed lead acid battery power supply with integral smart charger designed to deliver up to 200 ma of ultra low noise DC power for Tortuga preamps and other audio devices. While it can deliver more than 200 ma of current an internal replaceable fuse will blow at 500 ma or if the output is ever short circuited. It uses a fast blow fuse so any short circuit will pop the fuse. The output voltage is unregulated but the PS12B can be optionally equipped with any LM78XX type linear regulator to achieve regulated output.
We've tweaked the operating logic a bit which can be summarized as follows:
- Upon connection to AC main, charger will connect to the battery and battery output is available.
- Pushbutton on front panel connects/disconnects the charger as long as voltage is not too low
- 12 Volt Trigger input to rear panel disconnects the charger when on and disconnects charger when off (overrides the pushbutton)
- Charger automatically re-connects when battery voltage drops to ~11.9 volts - battery output remains available even when voltage is low. Pushbutton and 12 Volt Trigger input ignored until voltage back up above 12.1 volts (i.e. charger remains connected) and low voltage fault cleared by user via pushbutton.
- Battery output will automatically disconnect if battery voltage drops below 11 volts (discharging this low will shorten the useful life of the battery)
- When not connected to AC main there's not way to determine the status of the battery since it will be isolated from both the charger and the output.
Front panel lights:
Blue LED
- Off - battery disconnected - not available (either because AC mains off or battery voltage too low)
- On - battery connected - available to power preamp etc.
Green LED
- Off - charger disconnected from battery
- On - charger connected to battery and charging battery
Red LED
- Off - battery voltage ok (> 12.1 V)
- Blinking - battery voltage running low (< 12.1 V) and needs charging
- On - battery voltage too low (< 11.9 V) - battery charger will connect automatically
If No LEDs are lit this means the PS12B is not connected to AC main and the battery is not available.
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Just a quick update note on the battery power supply. The design is effectively done. I don't anticipate another round of prototype board before going to production. Still deciding on how handle the LED display lights and the front panel. October was a blur not the least because of family health challenges related to elderly parent. I expect to release the PS12 by the end of this month and will start taking pre-orders very soon.
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
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That sounds very exciting Morten - I'll be standing by the credit card!
Craig
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Here's a photoshopped mock-up of the front panel of the soon to be released PS12B battery power supply with a LDR3.V2 Passive Preamp sitting on top of it. The main circuit board has been ordered and we're cutting first batch of front/rear panels later this week.
There are 3 lights plus on pushbutton on the front panel that work as follows:
Power (blue) - indicates whether the unit is plugged into AC main and turned on (switch in the rear panel)
Charging (green) - indicates whether the battery is connected to charger circuit. When powering the preamp while it's on the Charger should be off.
Low Bat (red) - indicates when battery level getting low. Blinks when low, stays on when voltage drops below safe level and shuts off power coming out of the power supply.
Charger (pushbutton) - press/release to toggle the Charger on/off
(http://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/PS12B_with_LDR3.jpg)
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a minor critique if you haven't gotten into production yet.
IMO - It would look better if all the silkscreen fonts lined up vertically. This would require the top three to move over to the right just a bit to line up with the "charger" push button. A nit for sure but things like that bother me. :D
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a minor critique if you haven't gotten into production yet.
IMO - It would look better if all the silkscreen fonts lined up vertically. This would require the top three to move over to the right just a bit to line up with the "charger" push button. A nit for sure but things like that bother me. :D
You are spot on. Noticed that myself after stepping back from it. Fortunately this is just a mock-up. Plus we do our own panel lettering/etching using a CNC CO2 laser so we have flexibility to fix/modify. Thanks for the critique.
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Very nice! :thumb:
I agree with the above lettering critique. However, does it need any labels at all? Maybe a power label but that's it. How about using a LED lit power switch?
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Are the LDR's power 24/7? Thanks
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I agree with the suggestion of not having any labels on the power supply. Surely, an owner will quickly learn the meaning of the three LEDs and not need to read the labels when checking the status of the charger.
After all, there didn't seem to be a need to have labels for the display on the LDR preamps which is much more complex and multifunctional.
Think elegance, simplicity, minimalism. Just my two cents.
Robert
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^^^^^^
+1
Less is more :thumb:
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I agree with the suggestion of not having any labels on the power supply. Surely, an owner will quickly learn the meaning of the three LEDs and not need to read the labels when checking the status of the charger.
After all, there didn't seem to be a need to have labels for the display on the LDR preamps which is much more complex and multifunctional.
Think elegance, simplicity, minimalism. Just my two cents.
Robert
Having different colors next next to labels, looks good but is redundant. If going the minimalist simplicity route, maybe use a single tri-color led with no labels.
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I vote for labels.
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Here's a far more minimalist mock-up. Only 1 LED but it's tri-color - Blue, Red & Green. This is just artwork, not actual - so looks a bit cheesy.
The push button also has a green LED.
The LED would only be BLUE (unit on/off) or RED (low battery), the pushbutton would light up only when the battery was connected to the charger/charging. No labels.
(http://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/PS12B_with_LDR3_Rev1.jpg)
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Looks great! Very intuitively friendly. Sort of like an anslog watch versus digital... less required mental processing.
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Hi Morten,
Will the battery unit have an internal power supply, or external?
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I like the new mock-up. :thumb:
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Hi Morten,
Will the battery unit have an internal power supply, or external?
It's all integral within the enclsore. There are actually two 12V 3.4 Ah sealed lead acid batteries wired in parallel plus the charger circuit board etc. It's very packed in there and quite heavy although I've yet to weigh it.
The reason we went with 2 batteries vs. 1 is twofold. Primarily its because we also intend for this to be 24 volt supply that can power a future buffer. The buffer will create a split voltage +\- 12 supply from the 24V with a virtual ground. Secondly, these were the biggest batteries we could find which fit like a glove in our existing extruded enclosure.
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It's all integral within the enclsore. There are actually two 12V 3.4 Ah sealed lead acid batteries wired in parallel plus the charger circuit board etc. It's very packed in there and quite heavy although I've yet to weigh it.
The reason we went with 2 batteries vs. 1 is twofold. Primarily its because we also intend for this to be 24 volt supply that can power a future buffer. The buffer will create a split voltage +\- 12 supply from the 24V with a virtual ground. Secondly, these were the biggest batteries we could find which fit like a glove in our existing extruded enclosure.
Thank you!
Will we be able to replace the batteries at home when that time comes?
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Thank you!
Will we be able to replace the batteries at home when that time comes?
Yes. The connection to the charger board is via quick disconnect "faston" spade lugs as is the connection to the batteries themselves. Even if the specific batteries are no longer available down the road you will always be able to find a 12 volt SLA battery that will fit the enclosure. Everything is accessible by removing the rear panel held by 4 screws. The panel, charger-board and batteries all slide out of the enclosure.
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Yes. The connection to the charger board is via quick disconnect "faston" spade lugs as is the connection to the batteries themselves. Even if the specific batteries are no longer available down the road you will always be able to find a 12 volt SLA battery that will fit the enclosure. Everything is accessible by removing the rear panel held by 4 screws. The panel, charger-board and batteries all slide out of the enclosure.
Hi Morten
Is there a guide price yet?
Craig
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Hi Morten
Is there a guide price yet?
Craig
Yes, I've just now finished going through compiling a complete parts/pricing list. Close to 60 individual parts that add up to almost 10 pounds of hardware fully assembled. Price will be $575. That will include shipping for US domestic. International shipping via USPS Priority will be $75 additional. Something less for Canada but haven't figured that out yet.
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The PS12B Battery Power Supply is now available for pre-order on our website. :thumb:
Having learned from our prior experiences that new products have never been released by our planned release date I pushed the release date out an extra month in an attempt to catch up to reality. We'll see how that goes. :o
Please note that with pre-orders you are not charged until the actual release date.
More info on the PS12B can be found here: http://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/ps12b-battery-power-supply/ (http://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/ps12b-battery-power-supply/)
[Pic shows an LDR3.V2 preamp sitting on top of the PS12B Battery Power Supply]
(http://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/PS12B_with_LDR3_Rev4.jpg)
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As per my experience the LDR preamp controller doesn't require, nor would it benefit from, a regulated supply per se.
The controller board doesn't require a high bandwidth dynamic power supply as do conventional preamps. It does however like clean, low noise power.
Unregulated 12 V supplies can easily drift up into that range depending on the AC main voltage, transformer ratio etc. This concern can be avoided by opting for our high precision op amp upgrade which also benefits auto calibration accuracy.
printed circuit board (http://www.7pcbmanufacturing.com/printed-circuit-boards.php)
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As per my experience the LDR preamp controller doesn't require, nor would it benefit from, a regulated supply per se.
The controller board doesn't require a high bandwidth dynamic power supply as do conventional preamps. It does however like clean, low noise power.
Unregulated 12 V supplies can easily drift up into that range depending on the AC main voltage, transformer ratio etc. This concern can be avoided by opting for our high precision op amp upgrade which also benefits auto calibration accuracy.
Was there a question there?
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Will this PS12B battery PS be offered as a 'full kit' or 'partial kit' to implement in designs already using the Tortuga LDR system?
Thanks,
Anand.
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Will this PS12B battery PS be offered as a 'full kit' or 'partial kit' to implement in designs already using the Tortuga LDR system?
Thanks,
Anand.
Sorry for slow response on this. At least to start with we aren't planning on a kit version of the PS12B. That may change down the road.
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Just a quick update on the PS12B. We are finishing up our first batch of front/rear panels after which they'll be sent out for anodizing which usually takes less than week turnaround. Out latest hold up was lack of a 5 mm drill bit which apparently no hardware store anywhere carries so had to order it. Another 7-10 days should do it and we'll be ready to roll.
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We've quietly rolled out the PS12B Battery Power Supply and have received very positive responses. Here is the text from a recent email. As positive as it is the comment on the graininess being gone was a bit surprising. What graininess!!?? - LOL!!
Just wanted to let you know that the PS12B has been in place for over a week and I'm
very happy with the purchase. I was hopeful that there would be an improvement but
wasn't sure what to expect. I can say that the difference is not subtle.
All frequencies have a much smoother presentation with faster lows and crystal clear
high's. The occasional fatigue with higher volume listening due to graininess
Is also gone. I would recommend this to anyone who has or is considering the LDR3.
I know folks would be suspicious of the cost benefit (I was) but I feel this addition has
taken the pre-amp to another level. Your trial period should make this a no-brainer.
Thanks again for a great product. - Kevan
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Hi there,
I'm actually enquiring about your 12" Audio Nirvana AlNico speaker drivers you listed for sale delivered for $600.
I guess first off I'm really surprised no one scoffed these up as I'm sure you are. Makes me wonder too. I thought AN made some of the best
single driver full range speakers. The only thing I've heard about the Super AlNico was that the 10" version tended to have the best sound
across the sound spectrum from a reliable source.
I too have been toying with building a pair of single driver speakers with the AN 10" but the retail price admittedly has impeded progress.
That said just how much of a difference would AN's 12" v. 10" be overall. The 12" goes lower for one.
Because I'm don't know really a hill of beans about speaker building except it's one of the most challenging undertakings there is I think.
After building GR Research's Super V kit offering oh about 6 years ago maybe I found out how hard is really is first hand and I had all the parts
and design done for me. I even bypassed constructing the cabinets by buying pre-made cabinets from Jon ParkHurst for what I thought was a
very reasonable cost and I'm capable of building boxes. I think he's set up for production and is fast and good at it to and is pretty easy going.
His Baltic Birch oil rubbed and then lacquer clear coated finish (I believe its what I described) is extremely well done and I know very time
consuming. The cabinets are built very solidly and show it, they weigh over 200 lbs. each and sound incredible with the Super V design and
electrical design build-out. GR Research hit the nail squarely in the Super V design so much so I'm sure anything better sounding is posing
quite a challenge I'd think anyway. I have a couple pairs of fairly reputable high end speakers I'd bought used of course over time that are
super in their way but I doubt are as good as the Super V's. Of course the combinations of gear driving speakers is also a big variable as you
know.
With the big 4-ways I'd say the best solid state powerhouse amps work best but with the HE 97dB Super V I've found a nifty amp I'll share with
you that has inspired me more then any other component I've come across along with the Super V is that of Urban Hi Fi's David Berning
designed ZOTL10 tube amp. It's a 10 watt OTL with a very high level designed power supply. They also have a 40 watt version that uses EL-34.
The ZOTL40 I've been told is killer and comparative to Berning's best designs in ways that are quite costly. I think a pair of mono's are $70K
whereas it's $5800 which is a lot of money too but not $70K. The ZOTL10 for 10 watts is incredibly powerful I think and will play to a nearly ear
breaking level with Super V is so desired and not clip. I listen between 62dB and 90dB at the highest probably. I also got their preamp called
MicroZOTL that can also be used as an AMP but the 1 watt per side power has been a challenge for me to even locate a reasonably priced driver
try pairing with it. I'd like to find something. I hooked it up to the super V and was totally amazed by it's sound, it lacked dynamics seriously
however but my two kids that heard it thought it was the best sounding music they'd ever heard. They have better ears too. I think they are
right.
Anyway, no worries to respond to much of any of what I wrote I just thought I'd share a few thoughts around speakers and amps etc.
I am planning on buying a different amp to use for awhile and will be putting my ZOTL10 up for sale for $2K if anyone is interested beforehand.
It sells for $2600 new. It's about 4 months old. I got a handle on another amp I'm going to try is all. Maybe there's a trade possibility here
regarding the drivers and cash? Just thought of that. I would like to try my hand at building another pair of speaker and am interested in your
the drivers you listed, if you still have them even. Let me know please. Thanks
-
Please find my response here ==> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144279.msg1545153#msg1545153 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144279.msg1545153#msg1545153)
Hi there,
I'm actually enquiring about your 12" Audio Nirvana AlNico speaker drivers you listed for sale delivered for $600.
I guess first off I'm really surprised no one scoffed these up as I'm sure you are. Makes me wonder too. I thought AN made some of the best
single driver full range speakers. The only thing I've heard about the Super AlNico was that the 10" version tended to have the best sound
across the sound spectrum from a reliable source.
I too have been toying with building a pair of single driver speakers with the AN 10" but the retail price admittedly has impeded progress.
That said just how much of a difference would AN's 12" v. 10" be overall. The 12" goes lower for one.
Because I'm don't know really a hill of beans about speaker building except it's one of the most challenging undertakings there is I think.
After building GR Research's Super V kit offering oh about 6 years ago maybe I found out how hard is really is first hand and I had all the parts
and design done for me. I even bypassed constructing the cabinets by buying pre-made cabinets from Jon ParkHurst for what I thought was a
very reasonable cost and I'm capable of building boxes. I think he's set up for production and is fast and good at it to and is pretty easy going.
His Baltic Birch oil rubbed and then lacquer clear coated finish (I believe its what I described) is extremely well done and I know very time
consuming. The cabinets are built very solidly and show it, they weigh over 200 lbs. each and sound incredible with the Super V design and
electrical design build-out. GR Research hit the nail squarely in the Super V design so much so I'm sure anything better sounding is posing
quite a challenge I'd think anyway. I have a couple pairs of fairly reputable high end speakers I'd bought used of course over time that are
super in their way but I doubt are as good as the Super V's. Of course the combinations of gear driving speakers is also a big variable as you
know.
With the big 4-ways I'd say the best solid state powerhouse amps work best but with the HE 97dB Super V I've found a nifty amp I'll share with
you that has inspired me more then any other component I've come across along with the Super V is that of Urban Hi Fi's David Berning
designed ZOTL10 tube amp. It's a 10 watt OTL with a very high level designed power supply. They also have a 40 watt version that uses EL-34.
The ZOTL40 I've been told is killer and comparative to Berning's best designs in ways that are quite costly. I think a pair of mono's are $70K
whereas it's $5800 which is a lot of money too but not $70K. The ZOTL10 for 10 watts is incredibly powerful I think and will play to a nearly ear
breaking level with Super V is so desired and not clip. I listen between 62dB and 90dB at the highest probably. I also got their preamp called
MicroZOTL that can also be used as an AMP but the 1 watt per side power has been a challenge for me to even locate a reasonably priced driver
try pairing with it. I'd like to find something. I hooked it up to the super V and was totally amazed by it's sound, it lacked dynamics seriously
however but my two kids that heard it thought it was the best sounding music they'd ever heard. They have better ears too. I think they are
right.
Anyway, no worries to respond to much of any of what I wrote I just thought I'd share a few thoughts around speakers and amps etc.
I am planning on buying a different amp to use for awhile and will be putting my ZOTL10 up for sale for $2K if anyone is interested beforehand.
It sells for $2600 new. It's about 4 months old. I got a handle on another amp I'm going to try is all. Maybe there's a trade possibility here
regarding the drivers and cash? Just thought of that. I would like to try my hand at building another pair of speaker and am interested in your
the drivers you listed, if you still have them even. Let me know please. Thanks
-
Hi Morten,
I recently purchased an LDR3v2 from you and am loving it Well done!
I've been thinking about a 12V power supply for my Mytek Brooklyn, so now I'm considering powering the Tortuga as well.
With a nod to Vinni Rossi, who is a pioneer in off-the-grid audio, I ask the following:
Since you are using two 12V batteries, did you consider a charger/load switching scheme that seamlessly switched a charged battery to the load and the charger to the other battery?
Would the LDRv2 benefit from low series effective resistance ultracapacitors provided power-either alone or in parallel with the batteries?
Thanks, Jim
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Since you are using two 12V batteries, did you consider a charger/load switching scheme that seamlessly switched a charged battery to the load and the charger to the other battery?
No, did not consider that. But I can definitely see the benefits of this approach. It wouldn't take that much of a design change from our current version to accomplish this but it would indeed require new circuit boards etc.
By way of some background, the PS12B was originally conceived as a 24 volt battery PS that would serve as a split voltage (+12/-12) battery power supply with virtual ground for powering of a solid state buffer with the ultimate in low noise DC power. This is still in the works and with some minor part changes and reprogramming the PS12B can become the PS24B. In the interim we decided to simply run the 2 12V batteries in parallel and released it as a nominal 12 VDC power supply that could be used with our existing LDR passive preamps.
Would the LDRv2 benefit from low series effective resistance ultracapacitors provided power-either alone or in parallel with the batteries?
In my view there would be no advantage to this with our LDR preamps. While our current passive preamp design benefits from a quiet (low noise) power supply (used to drive a pair of op amps) they do NOT use this power dynamically. By that I mean the power supply is used to do some very modest amplification/buffering of control power signals that are themselves constant DC (i.e. static) at any attenuation point and only change briefly when volume level changes. This type of system would not benefit from improved dynamic response which is what caps are usually there to provide in conventional audio preamps.
Every now and then someone will point out that our preamps are really not "passive" preamps because they use a power supply. To which I'm happy to concede that they're probably more accurately described as "actively controlled passive preamps". The key distinction between our passive preamp and a true active preamp is the power supply is NOT electrically touching the audio signal, plus there's no gain (amplification) and there's no (impedance) buffer. The power supply does statically control the resistance levels of the LDRs but this is done optically with photons (LEDs) and not electrons.
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Disregard. I got my answer. Ugh
I apologize if this question has been asked and addressed "I Googled key words"...but would this battery supply/charger power a Dodd Audio battery buffer with the powerCON female receptor on the buffer?
Thank!