[studiotech]

I see Satie mentioned the cavity resonance. Since I plan to keep my crossover about where Magnepan has it, and since it apparently goes away when you use them in a line of 8, that shouldn't be an issue for me. I'll be very curious though if you learn more about how they sound. The plan I hatched with Satie is to get a pair each of 8's and 8S's and compare them audibly. Then get the preferred one for the rest of the arrays -- I don't think the odd pair would make much of a difference. But it seems that the 8S has a different efficiency and is 8 ohms, besides which it needs different tuning, so this no longer seems like a particularly practical approach.

We'll, either version is going to need tuning, so that shouldn't stop you from considering either version.  What range do the original Maggie Tymp mids cover?  That might make all the difference in which model you choose.  I can tell you that either version ought to be more resolving than any older Maggie could ever hope to be, but it's all up to giving the Neos a fair shot, which means having the ability to properly adjust them.  Can you use DSP to at least prototype?  Then if you feel that you can get the sound you are after, mock up passives?

The 8 ohms ought to not matter either as you can work out different versions of series-parallel to achieve the final value you are after.  You do NOT have to match the same Ohm level as the rest of the system, so long as you get the relative SPL level correct.

Greg

[josh358]

We'll, either version is going to need tuning, so that shouldn't stop you from considering either version.  What range do the original Maggie Tymp mids cover?  That might make all the difference in which model you choose.  I can tell you that either version ought to be more resolving than any older Maggie could ever hope to be, but it's all up to giving the Neos a fair shot, which means having the ability to properly adjust them.  Can you use DSP to at least prototype?  Then if you feel that you can get the sound you are after, mock up passives?

The 8 ohms ought to not matter either as you can work out different versions of series-parallel to achieve the final value you are after.  You do NOT have to match the same Ohm level as the rest of the system, so long as you get the relative SPL level correct.

Greg

The Iva's crossover points are roughly 300 and 3000 Hz, so neither the 8 nor the 8S should have any trouble. However, I understand from Satie's experience with the IV's that it's desirable to push the woofer's crossover lower. He also experimented with pushing up the ribbon crossover, but found the lobing too troublesome. Satie also prefers single pole crossovers to Magnepan's higher-order ones. I'm planning to experiment with high slope FIR crossovers in DSP, though I'm not sure if this will work out since I'm doing it in my HTPC and I haven't figured out yet how to route the audio from a video-capable media player like VLC to VST plug-ins. If that doesn't prove practical, I imagine I'll end up with a single pole PLLXO. Either way, I'll be triamping, maybe biamping initially since I only have two power amps now.

My concern with comparing the 8 and 8S has more to do with practicality rather than doability. I'm pressed for time and having to measure and equalize them to make a fair comparison would take some of it. So I was a bit disappointed to hear that I couldn't just throw them on the amplifier, adjust levels, and switch back and forth. Still, it sounds like I'll have to bite the bullet unless it turns out that someone else has made the comparison. My main concern is with the waterfall, since the response aberrations can be dealt with. As you say, it's hard to compare the two waterfalls without knowing what settings they used, but the clean waterfall was what impressed me about the Neo 8 originally, since I've come to associate a "cliff-like" waterfall with stat-like detail. The 8S waterfall looks like it rings pretty badly across the board. It may just be that they set it to sacrifice time domain precision to get more frequency domain precision, in which case the ringing could just be an artifact. Or I was thinking it might have something to do with the addition of the Neo 10-style surround.

One thing I'm certain of, based on both Satie's experience and the specs -- both the 8S and 8 will sound cleaner than the IVa's midrange. I gather the 8 is just short of a stat. So it's just a matter of deciding which one would be best. The 8S seems to go lower, has lower distortion, higher output (not necessary in this case). IIRC, the cavity resonance starts a bit higher in the 8. I'm not so concerned with on-axis response, since I can fix that easily enough with DSP -- more with clarity.

The RD-50 is also a possibility, I haven't ruled it out, it does have a lower recommended crossover point than the 8's.

[studiotech]

Josh, a 300hz xover point, especially with low order slopes is really pushing it for the regular Neo8.  Even the Neo8-S is gonna be taxed running that low.  What about 3 or 4 Neo10 rather than 6 Neo8?  I might be able to help you out with those.  Be about the same price for a more capable driver.

The absolute minimum for the RD on the spec sheet is for a sealed enclosure.  Running open baffle is not going to work well that low.  Even sealed, that is rather low and I'd recommend at least 300hz.

Greg

[studiotech]

Here's a pict to show the relative sizes of the Neo3, 8 and 10.

[satie]

Josh, a 300hz xover point, especially with low order slopes is really pushing it for the regular Neo8.  Even the Neo8-S is gonna be taxed running that low.  What about 3 or 4 Neo10 rather than 6 Neo8?  I might be able to help you out with those.  Be about the same price for a more capable driver.

The absolute minimum for the RD on the spec sheet is for a sealed enclosure.  Running open baffle is not going to work well that low.  Even sealed, that is rather low and I'd recommend at least 300hz.

Greg

It depends on listening levels, I played the Neo8 array without any XO on it for a while (I adjusted the XO for the ribbon and bass to work with the natural rolloff of the mid arrays). The results were very good and you don't hear any straining at normal listening levels as the sensitivity of the Neo8 is so great. The array fills in the bottom octave of the FR curve (relative to a single Neo8) so that you have a natural roloff at 300 hz or just below. I ended up with a LP in the 6-8khz range for better dispersion from the ribbon, and put in a 100-150 hz HP to protect the tube power amp. When using SS with higher power on the mids I still do so but in order to protect the drivers from bottoming out.

[scorpion]

Regarding Neo8 and Neo10, data published by German Hobby HiFi
say that Neo10 has about 5 times greater radiating surface than Neo8.
I am in Sydney, Australia at the moment so I have not the exact figures at hand.
As an illustration to your picture Greg.

/Erling

[quailpark]

Guys,
It's now 2017 and I know this thread is old but I just purchased a set of BG drivers to replicate an Infinity Beta system. I wanted to see if any of you had any updated thoughts/suggestion on the BG drivers?
Thanks
Paul

[Roger Gustavsson]

Regarding Neo8 and Neo10, data published by German Hobby HiFi
say that Neo10 has about 5 times greater radiating surface than Neo8.

This is not true, not 5 times the radiating surface. Just take a look at the picture above and you see that is impossible.

[srb]

Regarding Neo8 and Neo10, data published by German Hobby HiFi say that Neo10 has about 5 times greater radiating surface than Neo8.

While the BG Datasheets don't specify exact membrane dimensions, I would imagine the dimensions given inside the mounting flange would be somewhat close.  If the membrane dimensions are closer to the dimensions of the aperture hole cutouts, the calculations should still be somewhat relative.

BG Neo8 =  176.38 mm X 67.6 mm = 11,923 mm²

BG Neo10 = 226 mm X 102.54 mm = 23,174 mm²

Therefore, the BG Neo10 should have ~ 2 X (1.94) the radiating surface of the BG Neo8

Steve

[HAL]

Love the Neo3's and Neo10's in my 3-way OB with 3x8" H-Frame servo subs.

[Jazzman53]

Electrically segmented hybrid ESL's are an attractive option for DIY.  Segmentation gives a beautiful dispersion pattern and if an active bi-amp setup is used rather than a passive crossover, world class results are assured (you can actually build a better ESL than you can buy these days).  Best of all; building the actual driver from scratch is uniquely rewarding.  Really, the hard part is the woodwork... the rest is relatively easy.                       

[HAL]

Enjoying the BG Neo10's with the GT Audio Works 20" ribbons in The Megaliths I built with the 6x12" servo subs. 

The baffles were originally sized for BG Neo3-PDR's before Christie Digital bought them and stopped external sales.  Now that they are available again, still contemplating swapping out the tweeters.

[studiotech]

Guys,
It's now 2017 and I know this thread is old but I just purchased a set of BG drivers to replicate an Infinity Beta system. I wanted to see if any of you had any updated thoughts/suggestion on the BG drivers?
Thanks
Paul

Still running the Neo10's at home and loving them.  After finishing the home open baffles, I developed a midfield style studio monitor using the Neo8-S and the Raal OEM ribbon.  To my ears, the Neo series drivers are still some of the best mids around.  Thank goodness we can get them again from PE. 

Greg

[THROWBACK]

Hmm, Greg. I have an extra Neo-8 and a Raal ribbon sitting on a shelf in my storeroom. I'm wondering if they might be used in a configuration like yours. Would you be willing to share your plans?

[poseidonsvoice]

Studiotech,

Nice. Looks like an FPE panel to accommodate the RAAL tweeter and Neo midrange planar magnetic driver!

Best,
Anand.

[studiotech]

Hmm, Greg. I have an extra Neo-8 and a Raal ribbon sitting on a shelf in my storeroom. I'm wondering if they might be used in a configuration like yours. Would you be willing to share your plans?

Other than what I've posted here and other forums, I'm afraid I can't give exact details.  With some diligent research, you can sort out something nice.

[studiotech]

Studiotech,

Nice. Looks like an FPE panel to accommodate the RAAL tweeter and Neo midrange planar magnetic driver!

Best,
Anand.

Correct.  Good eye, Anand.  Trying to keep them as physically close as possible.  We get our logo and then the client's name or company engraved on those panels.   

[Wallacefl]

Has anyone tried putting an ER Audio mini panel in a box/cabinet? I understand the off axis issues due to it's size but it could cover the range >200hz. I already have the dipole thing covered in another system with ML CLS Z 2s.

[emailtim]

How did you find the Neo 8-S compare sonically to the Neo 8? I know the amplitude response is somewhat smoother and the cutoff frequency lower, distortion lower, etc., but I was a bit concerned by the 8-S's waterfall plot, which seemed to show ringing gradually dying away rather than the cliff-like waterfall of the Neo 8.
...

FWIW, horn loaded NEO8S waterfall response.

https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/testing-the-s-version-dual-planar-transducer-front-horn-using-bg-neo8s

[SteveJewels]

I recently came into possession of a pair (actually 2 pair ) of RD75's.

I plan to use a Marchand active crossover to split the bass from the RD75's and then a passive high pass to the tweeters so I can use only two amps. I have a Pass Labs X250.5. Not sure what other amp to get.




This is the first pair.

The second pair are a NIB set.