Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 4491 times.

jonbee

Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« on: 8 Aug 2015, 10:32 pm »
As I had noted in the ad for my DA-RMa V2s that I posted here, I have developed quite an annoying case of tinnitus. It is often very loud and interferes with my appreciation of hi-rez audio. Not a happy thing since audio has been my principal hobby, and in a big way since 1968.
As I've been learning to live with it over the last 18 months or so, I learned that it is more intrusive in far field listening. Headphone and near field (4-6 feet) listening is still affected, but not to the same degree as when ambient noise is mixed in.
With that in mind I decided to deprecate my main system and upgrade my office system and headphones. HiFiman HE-500 cans turned out to be very nice driven by a good HP amp/DAC, and I'm trying out some new monitors for my office.
Thus the DA-RMas are now living in the Southwest with another AC member who is enjoying them quite a lot.
As for my main system, I had decided I wanted to find an adequate pair of floor standers to replace the DA-RMAs that could be bought for a lot less $. Adequate for me is still quite a high bar, and I looked at a lot of candidates. I found a pair of used Joseph Audio RM-33LEs with a little cosmetic damage for a very low price. This model garnered lots of good reviews and such a dozen or more years ago, and has a lot of technology and clever design features in them, using Seas Excel and Millenia drivers and a tricked out version of the Infinite Slope crossover in a hybrid version (3 different xover topologies are used-series, high slope parallel, and Infinite Slope). They originally retailed for about the same price as the DA-RMA v2, $10,500.
The comparison between them was a lesson. The Joseph is a very transparent, high resolution speaker that offers superb imaging,  stunning clarity and good bass, in a modest size. It offers an almost microscopic view of the music, and it is very enjoyable to listen to. That said, the DA-RMA offers a view into what else there is.
The top end of the Joseph is very smooth but pushed forward some to my ears, and the upper bass to lower mids are somewhat recessed.  The effect is a thinner, brighter, sharper presentation that seems to be pretty typical of high end speakers. I do find that after 2 or 3 hours of listening I need a break from them.
On the other hand, the Daedalus are paragons of balance, from top to bottom, and the way they handle the lower mid and upper bass power range is simply more like what I like to hear in live music- not obfuscated, but with good weight and body. I've listened many times for 6, 8 or more hours at a time with never any fatigue.
I've read that Joseph displays and recommends Manley amps for their speakers, which have a reputation as having a gutsy power range, and that sounds like it might be a good match. As I have written here, I've heard at least 8 different types of amps with Daedalus speakers, and they all have sounded in the range from very good to awesome.
Given the state of my hearing, I'm very satisfied with the Josephs as a fall back. However, amp rolling in my big rig is now a dead sport.
In the end there is one decider of quality for me. Ignoring the particulars, if I had my choice, which do I simply enjoy the music with the most? For me, Lou's speakers hold pride of place. I'm very glad I had my time with them.
« Last Edit: 8 Aug 2015, 11:50 pm by jonbee »

Tomy2Tone

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #1 on: 8 Aug 2015, 11:09 pm »
Before I started posting here on AC I was a long time lurker and can remember seeing your posts about several different speakers. It has seemed like you've had your fair share of speakers come and go through your listening room, so much so you could probably write a book about all your experiences with them. The fact that Lou's model made the peak of your journey really says a lot.

Hopefully in the coming weeks I'll have a chance to hear your former DA-RMa's down in Tucson. The new owner seems pretty ecstatic about them and I'm looking forward to hearing the sound you and him describe.

Here's to hoping your tinnitus goes away!  :beer:


robin67

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 56
Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #2 on: 8 Aug 2015, 11:28 pm »
I have the Joseph Perspectives and run them with a pair of 65W Tube mono blocks with no problem and very happy with them

jonbee

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #3 on: 8 Aug 2015, 11:39 pm »
I have the Joseph Perspectives and run them with a pair of 65W Tube mono blocks with no problem and very happy with them
For their (minor) faults the RM33LE is still a very fine speaker. My class D amps certainly are not the best matchup with them, either.
I also think the Perspective is an improved design in just those areas I noted, and others, from what I've read. I'm sure it is a formidable speaker. A Pulsar on steroids, maybe? I'd love to hear them with good tubes someday.

PMAT

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #4 on: 9 Aug 2015, 05:38 am »
Dear brother, I share the same melody. On good days I have 90% of my hearing in my right ear. On bad days I have about 20%. The tinnitus is far worse in my right ear, the left is ok. I almost sold all my gear off but held out with a glimmer of hope. I also hear better with headphones. I find the far field stereo imaging to be really screwed up on the bad days. There seems to be a relationship to environmental factors. Not sure exactly what it is as it's very hard to nail down. I am hopeful though, and I am hopeful for you too. Don't give up completely. Good luck Jonbee.
PMAT

Rocket

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #5 on: 9 Aug 2015, 08:49 am »
Hi,

Sorry to hear about your tinnitus.  Until 2 years ago I never had this problem but I now have tinnitus in my left ear.  I try to tune the noise out and which works until I concentrate on the problem.  It doesn't affect my listening pleasure so obviously my condition isn't as bad as what you experience.

I've really enjoyed your posts regarding your opinion of different speakers.

Cheers Rod
« Last Edit: 28 Aug 2015, 11:12 am by Rocket »

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 3838
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #6 on: 9 Aug 2015, 04:55 pm »
Hi Jon, I'm sorry to hear about the tinnitus and hope you find a way to get rid of it or minimize it's effects so you can continue to enjoy listening to music. I'm sure the new owner of your Daedalus speakers will be very happy with them.  :)  If headphones and nearfield are better for you I think that means reflections are distracting so you may want to consider speakers that are more directional or additional room treatments to dampen the room a bit more.

 

robin67

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 56
Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #7 on: 9 Aug 2015, 05:02 pm »
I just got a pair of Sony MDR-Z7 Headphones and they sound awesome

Phil A

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #8 on: 9 Aug 2015, 05:53 pm »
Hi Jon, I'm sorry to hear about the tinnitus and hope you find a way to get rid of it or minimize it's effects so you can continue to enjoy listening to music. I'm sure the new owner of your Daedalus speakers will be very happy with them.  :)  If headphones and nearfield are better for you I think that means reflections are distracting so you may want to consider speakers that are more directional or additional room treatments to dampen the room a bit more.

 

+1 - it is no fun not being able to enjoy what you really like

Daedalus Audio

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 745
    • http://www.daedalusaudio.com
Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #9 on: 9 Aug 2015, 10:30 pm »
As I had noted in the ad for my DA-RMa V2s that I posted here, I have developed quite an annoying case of tinnitus. It is often very loud and interferes with my appreciation of hi-rez audio. Not a happy thing since audio has been my principal hobby, and in a big way since 1968.
As I've been learning to live with it over the last 18 months or so, I learned that it is more intrusive in far field listening. Headphone and near field (4-6 feet) listening is still affected, but not to the same degree as when ambient noise is mixed in.
With that in mind I decided to deprecate my main system and upgrade my office system and headphones. HiFiman HE-500 cans turned out to be very nice driven by a good HP amp/DAC, and I'm trying out some new monitors for my office.
Thus the DA-RMas are now living in the Southwest with another AC member who is enjoying them quite a lot.
As for my main system, I had decided I wanted to find an adequate pair of floor standers to replace the DA-RMAs that could be bought for a lot less $. Adequate for me is still quite a high bar, and I looked at a lot of candidates. I found a pair of used Joseph Audio RM-33LEs with a little cosmetic damage for a very low price. This model garnered lots of good reviews and such a dozen or more years ago, and has a lot of technology and clever design features in them, using Seas Excel and Millenia drivers and a tricked out version of the Infinite Slope crossover in a hybrid version (3 different xover topologies are used-series, high slope parallel, and Infinite Slope). They originally retailed for about the same price as the DA-RMA v2, $10,500.
The comparison between them was a lesson. The Joseph is a very transparent, high resolution speaker that offers superb imaging,  stunning clarity and good bass, in a modest size. It offers an almost microscopic view of the music, and it is very enjoyable to listen to. That said, the DA-RMA offers a view into what else there is.
The top end of the Joseph is very smooth but pushed forward some to my ears, and the upper bass to lower mids are somewhat recessed.  The effect is a thinner, brighter, sharper presentation that seems to be pretty typical of high end speakers. I do find that after 2 or 3 hours of listening I need a break from them.
On the other hand, the Daedalus are paragons of balance, from top to bottom, and the way they handle the lower mid and upper bass power range is simply more like what I like to hear in live music- not obfuscated, but with good weight and body. I've listened many times for 6, 8 or more hours at a time with never any fatigue.
I've read that Joseph displays and recommends Manley amps for their speakers, which have a reputation as having a gutsy power range, and that sounds like it might be a good match. As I have written here, I've heard at least 8 different types of amps with Daedalus speakers, and they all have sounded in the range from very good to awesome.
Given the state of my hearing, I'm very satisfied with the Josephs as a fall back. However, amp rolling in my big rig is now a dead sport.
In the end there is one decider of quality for me. Ignoring the particulars, if I had my choice, which do I simply enjoy the music with the most? For me, Lou's speakers hold pride of place. I'm very glad I had my time with them.
Jon, I'm very sorry about your hearing problems, as noted it is hard to lose these things we love.  Thank you for your support these last years and your appreciation of my work, knowing that these are enjoyed and appreciated makes the work worthwhile.
Here's hoping your hearing rebounds.
thanks,
lou

figcon

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #10 on: 11 Aug 2015, 09:30 pm »
Too bad. Hope it gets better for you.

I have tinnitus on occasion, but find listening to music makes me forget about it, so I listen still. Annoying a bit, but not any more than that for me. With how loudly I like to listen, I'm surprised I made it this long without any major ear damage :D

david12

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #11 on: 27 Aug 2015, 11:02 am »
 Yes, it's a b....r isn't it. I have it to a degree. As you know it is a by product of the normal high tone hearing loss with age. As such, I am afraid, it is unlikely to improve. There is  little you can do, although noise generators with the opposite frequency range can help ( and no, I don't really understand that either).

 The golden rule though, is to avoid noise exposure, such as loud rock concerts, like the plague. Once you develop tinnitus, you become more sensitive to noise exposure, which can permanently degrade hearing further and worsen tinnitus.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 8212
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #12 on: 27 Aug 2015, 11:44 am »
I've listed my OSHA ear muffs on my equipment profile and have preached about exposure to high spls for years.  Fortunately I've not developed it, but since leaving the farm that I grew up on, have been able to avoid most unprotected high spl situations.  A friend at work developed tinnitus and it drove him crazy.  He's searched the world for solutions and won't accept what it is.  After a couple of years he's finally gotten used to it (as much as one can) but still doesn't accept what it is.

david12

Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #13 on: 28 Aug 2015, 10:01 am »
 Yes, for most people tinnitus is just a nuisance, mainly because it is a constant input. As you know, our sensory system is tuned for change, so we don't notice any steady input. I only notice my tinnitus when I think about it. A few unfortunate people can not do this and the tinnitus literally drives them crazy. I have even heard of suicides due to it. There is a Psychological program now, based I believe, on CBT. I have heard it works, but don't know anyone who has used it. You might advise your friend that such treatments do exist.

audiotom

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 522
  • Ground control to Major Tom
    • for everything music
Re: Fare-thee well, my Daedalus speakers
« Reply #14 on: 2 Sep 2015, 04:19 am »
So sorry to hear of your hearing issues

Last year i experienced  temporal mandible joint disorder - locked and swollen jaw

One of the side effects is temporary (days/weeks) moderate ringing in the ears

I cant imagine full blown tinninitus

I wear high quality hearing protection that removes distortions and retains the musical end when I go to live shows (obviously not the symphony or jazz)

When I forget to bring ear plugs to a loud concert (why so loud?)
I use a triangle of finely formed toilet paper and place it gently a little way in the outer ear
Be careful how far and leave a tp handle to pull it out
Works like a charm

Growing up in the 70's Miraculously i can still hear to 14 khz