Zero Volume At Step 0/mute

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jtwrace

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Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« on: 18 Jan 2015, 08:20 pm »
This comment surprised me because I agree with Jason and by design hitting step zero should not only shut off the inputs but also put the LDRs in a state where nothing should be getting in let alone out.  :scratch:

That said, the tour LDRxB has a "work in progress" revision of the firmware that works but may still have some rough edges. Whether it meets the "dead silent" criteria at 0/mute may well be open to interpretation. To my ears I can't effectively hear any music when a single ended unit is at 0/mute. I will look into this with a balanced setup since they are inherently more complex and therefore it's easier to overlook some nuance.

Great review and great feedback!

Cheers,  :thumb:
Morten
OK, I'd be interested in what you find.  Of course, if you needed me to test another I'm happy to do it.   :D

dburna

Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #1 on: 18 Jan 2015, 08:38 pm »

That said, the tour LDRxB has a "work in progress" revision of the firmware that works but may still have some rough edges. Whether it meets the "dead silent" criteria at 0/mute may well be open to interpretation. To my ears I can't effectively hear any music when a single ended unit is at 0/mute. I will look into this with a balanced setup since they are inherently more complex and therefore it's easier to overlook some nuance.

Morten

Morton, I don't hear any sound using my SE LDR while muted and on.  However, I do have the LDR pass a faint signal when the unit is off (but power to the power supply).  Is a function of the initial firmware?  I have an early V2 version and have never bothered to upgrade it.  I was wondering if old code might be the reason for this.

Thanks,  -dB
« Last Edit: 21 Jan 2015, 03:04 am by dburna »

Randy

Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #2 on: 18 Jan 2015, 11:57 pm »
My LDR balanced unit is dead quiet at the 0  -  0 volume setting. Faintly audible at 1 - 1.

jtwrace

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Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #3 on: 18 Jan 2015, 11:59 pm »
This is the tour impression thread and not a debate.

Randy

Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #4 on: 19 Jan 2015, 04:25 pm »
This is the tour impression thread and not a debate.

Not debating. I was just stating a fact regarding an issue YOU brought up.

jtwrace

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Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #5 on: 19 Jan 2015, 04:35 pm »
Not debating. I was just stating a fact regarding an issue YOU brought up.
What sensitivity are your speakers and output voltage of your source? 

Randy

Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #6 on: 20 Jan 2015, 02:59 am »
What sensitivity are your speakers and output voltage of your source?

92 db and 2V.

tortugaranger

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Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #7 on: 20 Jan 2015, 04:24 pm »
I moved this bit of discussion into its own topic and made the LDRxB 2015 Tour Impressions topic to a sticky.

tortugaranger

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Re: Zero Volume At Step 0/mute
« Reply #8 on: 21 Jan 2015, 01:14 pm »
I thought I'd elaborate a bit in the zero volume topic since it's a way to provide more insight into design issues with LDRs and some product changes coming up.

To achieve absolute zero volume at step 0/mute the series LDR should be totally off (dark - mega ohms). No problem. Meanwhile the shunt LDR needs to be at minimal resistance thus essentially putting audio output at or near ground level, i.e. zero sound.

To achieve zero output the shunt  LDR needs to be at fully cranked up which can stress the LDR thus  encouraging it to drift and possibly shorten it's useful life if left in this state indefinitely. Moreover, the resistance of the shunt LDR will never be actually zero; more like 50 ohms at best. No harm done if driven to this state briefly during temporary step 0/mute. Where this becomes an issue is when the LDR preamp is "off" while powered up. Being a passive, the "off" setting for an LDR preamp should be the  same as step 0/mute.

In order to preserve the useful life of the shunt LDR, we don't really want to keep the shunt LDR at max energy level. Unfortunately, backing off to some intermediate level, while being kinder to the LDR, may let audio to leak through if a connected source is still delivering live audio. Completely removing power to the LDR preamp will exacerbate this since without power the shunt LDR goes to max resistance and thus audio output floats and can make it even more likely to leak live audio through from the input. 

Kind of makes you pine for the simplicity of the lowly potentiometer. Kind of.

A practical solution to this is to add a simple relay between the audio output and ground. Ordinarily this connection is open. But at step 0/mute or when the preamp is off, this relay fully grounds the output thus fully ensuring zero sound while also allowing the shunt LDR to be turned off or at least dialed way back from min resistance.

We are releasing a new version of our IO3 relay switching board that includes these very output-to-ground relays to help address this. Please note that audio does not pass through these relays, it only gets shunted to ground when the preamp is muted or off.

Cheers,
Morten