AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Open Baffle Speakers => Topic started by: bladesmith on 24 Nov 2013, 06:00 pm
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I am very interested in OB speakers...
Please show me your pics/build/design.... you could even reference a thread to follow...
Thank you...
(I looked around all morning and couldn't find a picture thread, if there is already one, sorry...)
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How embarrassing! This circle has been open for years, and this was never raised!
Here are some pics of my old OB rig. Visaton b200 mains with Planet10 phase plugs (not in the pics, but added later and excellent) and biamped with Mach t Audio 12 inch subs on 36 wide folded baffles.
If you search for the really long "Gravity well of a Darkstar" thread, I really got in at that time.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7369)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7370)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7368)
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you could even reference a thread to follow...
>> DIYAudio "Ultimate OB Gallery" << (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-ob-gallery.html)
That thread is (at present) 113 pages and 1100 replies.
That should keep you busy for a while. :wink:
Bob
p.s. Although, I think for a lot of the pictures to show up, you have to register.
p.p.s. Pictures of mine have worn out their welcome, so I won't bother. :lol:
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No picture thread for Audiocircle....!
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No picture thread for Audiocircle....!
Sure there is. You just started one.
I only linked that because you asked for links. :thumb:
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Bob,
Those Perfect8 speakers are very interesting. Makes me think about other possibilities...
Thanks..
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Besty over H-Frame Alpha
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83939)
Mark Audio 10.3 Over H-Frame Alpha
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=89601)
Mark Audio 10.3 Over H-Frame Alpha and some friends.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90224)
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These have been posted here throughout various threads but here are my OB builds:
Hawthorne Audio OB
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90405)
GR Research MTM with Hawthorne Augie Woofer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=12941)
GR Research V-1
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=31037)
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(http://home.comcast.net/~mnjmiller/octave.jpg)
What it takes to gain an octave
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Hi all Audio Circle members.
Here are my two pairs of GR Research OB.
(V1 and V2)
Both OB are modified (A little) from the original design.
Very happy with both of them,
even and because they sound different from each other.
Both of them are easy to drive with my Decware SE84C= (2wpc)
and my Niteshade Audio NS-10 SEPentode (10wpc)
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90416)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90417)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90418)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90419)
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(http://home.comcast.net/~mnjmiller/octave.jpg)
What it takes to gain an octave
Wow! A picture is worth a 1000 words. Great post.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90455)
Mini H-Bomb / F-Bomb Usher Combo (Summer 2013)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90465)
My current system, two AE Dipole 15 woofers in offset H frames and a Lowther PM2C on an OB. Biamped with 200 W per channel solid state amps and a dBx Driverack PA active crossover.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90466)
Hawthorne Audio Sterling Trio
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71737)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71735)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71738)
4 Exodus DPL-10s and Seas H653 Coax.
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My GR Research V-1s
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90470)
My GR Research Super Vs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90471)
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4 Exodus DPL-10s and Seas H653 Coax.
That looks like fun. I'd love to hear those. :thumb:
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That looks like fun. I'd love to hear those. :thumb:
Bob,
They sound pretty good. the baffle board is big enough that I don't really need an H-frame. I am working on a new design that is based on the same principals but utilizes a thicker baffle board, adds a mid bass driver making it a 4-way and cuts back the baffle area around the coax. The axial mounted rear tweeter seems to work pretty well.
I will keep the forum posted on the updates.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71731)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71736)
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Circa 2004, after hearing some Orions...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=10846)
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Circa 2004, after hearing some Orions...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=10846)
Nice
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Harvylogan
very cool speakers
but I am curious what kind of wire are you using in the pic with the coax and rear tweeter
Rev G
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90506)
Hestia-SL (Usher/Dayton/Celestion/Vifa)
November 2012
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90507)
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Harvylogan
very cool speakers
but I am curious what kind of wire are you using in the pic with the coax and rear tweeter
Rev G
Rev G
Standard Teflon jacket hook-up wire and DR-25 heat shrink.
Harvy
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Lowthers and Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90528)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=87968)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83085)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83090)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83087)
Hi, Here is my project using two Acoustic Elegance IB 15" drivers and one Hemptone 8" Fullrange driver per side. The Baffle is made from 1 1/4" Pine and the speakers are biamplified and managed by a DBX Driverack PX.
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Lowthers and Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90528)
Hi Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
Is that a real dog in the background?
Is he asking for the door or ready to chew your interconnects.
For some dogs interconnects are a delight. :lol:
Nice set up.
Guy 13
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=87968)
Hi (Again) Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
If that's your real living room set up, you must have a very understanding wife.
Do you use all of them on a regular basis or do you want to open a showroom? :lol:
Guy 13
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Wow! A picture is worth a 1000 words. Great post.
Thanks :)
I use the 'shortest diameter' to determine Fc
so
Actually the 50Hz kan be no taller than the 100hz
But must be 2 x wide ...............
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Hi (Again) Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
If that's your real living room set up, you must have a very understanding wife.
Do you use all of them on a regular basis or do you want to open a showroom? :lol:
Guy 13
A good thing about H-frames is their interchangeable tops. It's also easy to remove and store the drivers.
I do use all of these speakers in other parts of the house and garage but not in the hard surface room pictured here. Dudley, the golden doodle, hangs with me and has no taste for my cheap cables.
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AINOgradient
¨
Project blog http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/231353-aino-gradient-collaborative-speaker-project.html
4-way active, minidsp. XO LR4 130, 800, 2800 (varies with evolution version)
S SEAS L26 ROY sealed - omnipole
W Beyma 12MWNd - dipole
M Vifa NE95 pair - dipole
T Fountek NeoCD3.5H - monopole
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90544)(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90545)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90547)
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b200 and alpha 15A
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2111/b200front.jpg)
l.cao alnico and 2x15"
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4048/img20120902172422.jpg)
and the newest addition, using raal 140-15d dipole with seos waveguides, ja8008 and seas l26roy.
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/217943d1379850145-byob-pen-baffel-dsc_0357.jpg)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2656/n3r4.jpg)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90674)
Very very nice.
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also available as a plastic kit :lol:
(http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/333/e/5/tamiya_homage_by_bjarnetv-d6w46zt.jpg)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90674)
Very very nice.
I agree. I'd love to hear these! Do you have measurements you can share?
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I agree. I'd love to hear these! Do you have measurements you can share?
unfortunately my mic stopped playing nice after i upgraded to OSX maverics, so no up to date measurements.
will post them when the problem has been resolved though.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90674)
Very very nice.
Love the grill cloth. Where can I get some?
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Love the grill cloth. Where can I get some?
this is the cloth i used.
http://www.123stitch.com/item/Wichelt-18-Count-White-Linen-Needlework-Fabric-36x55/123-59 (http://www.123stitch.com/item/Wichelt-18-Count-White-Linen-Needlework-Fabric-36x55/123-59)
comes in lots of colours, and sounds acoustically transparent.
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(http://gr-research.com/pics/complete1.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/complete2.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/complete4.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/complete5.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/pics/complete6.jpg)
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I think we need a special circle called "Speaker Porn Pictures" for rigs like this. Just too incredible.
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I agree. I'd love to hear these! Do you have measurements you can share?
+1
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I agree. I'd love to hear these! Do you have measurements you can share?
+1
i have some old 0-70 degree measurements from when the speaker looked like this:
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/210947d1376046901-byob-pen-baffel-dsc_0348.jpg)
as they were only baffle-shape prototypes, the XO and EQ was unimportant, but it shows that dispersion is pretty good from top to bottom :green:
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/213750d1377781584-byob-pen-baffel-0-70-horn-lengre-bak-1-3.jpg)
the mic was placed 80cm away from the speaker, aimed between the mid and tweeter. no gating.
hope to resolve the mic issues soon... :?
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91263)
far left and Far right….X-statix from AV123
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far left and Far right….X-statix from AV123
I really love those things. :thumb: Great speakers. :thumb:
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91278)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91280)
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GR Research OB5s and Tekton OB4.5s
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91284)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91339)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91339)
Very nice.
Any information about them ?
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Sure it's a dayton RS270 xO at 300 and a Peerless HDS 6.5 mid xo at 2500 to a SB29 tweeter all 2nd order and mid polarity inverted. The cabinet internal volume I think is 1.7 cu ft. I can send schematic if you wish. Also since I believe speaker project is never "done" if there are any changes in the drivers someone would make please suggest. I am always looking to improve. BTW the XO parts are all good quality caps (Jantzen). I will be upgrading the internal wiring and binding posts.
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Jimbones,
I think it looks very good. Very nice design.
:thumb:
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Dayton Audio PS220-8 full range over a powered H-frame Eminence Alpha 15. The network is a parallel notch filter that very effectively tames the Dayton's 3.6khz peak.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77829)
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The "Sweet 69's". Twelve PE 69 cent buyout Sony 5.25" woofers with a Vifa DX25 tweeter. These cost about $100 to build, and they are worth every penny, but not one penny more. The Sony midwoofers perform no better or worse than you would expect a really cheap boombox speaker to perform, with a significant breakup peak around 5khz, but when you combine twelve in an array, the comb filter effect almost completely eliminates this effect. So the woofer array runs full range with no low pass filter, while the Vifa tweeter is crossed at about 2.2khz using a 3rd order high pass filter, resulting in a reasonably smooth transition. Nobody will ever confuse these with high end speakers, but with a subwoofer to handle the bass these are great party speakers that you would find it hard to blow out, even at very high volume levels.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=52169)
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The "Towers of Awesomeness". Each 7' 9" tower incorporates twelve Dayton Audio RS180 midwoofers and nine BG Neo 8 PDR tweeters. Bi amplified using a DEQX processor for preamp, digital crossover, speaker correction and room correction. The midwoofer/tweeter crossover is a 48dB/octave LR at 1.2khz. The subwoofer/midwoofer crossover is a 48dB/octave LR at 100hz.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=89157)
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+1
i have some old 0-70 degree measurements from when the speaker looked like this:
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/210947d1376046901-byob-pen-baffel-dsc_0348.jpg)
as they were only baffle-shape prototypes, the XO and EQ was unimportant, but it shows that dispersion is pretty good from top to bottom :green:
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/213750d1377781584-byob-pen-baffel-0-70-horn-lengre-bak-1-3.jpg)
the mic was placed 80cm away from the speaker, aimed between the mid and tweeter. no gating.
hope to resolve the mic issues soon... :?
Where can you buy the waveguide and does it fit the monopole 140-15D also?
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Fostex FX120 and Eminence Alpha 15
(http://zimmer64.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/20131222-163857.jpg)
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Where can you buy the waveguide and does it fit the monopole 140-15D also?
it's made by autotech so you could buy them here:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/fiberglass-seos/seosraal.html (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/fiberglass-seos/seosraal.html)
and probably some other retailer, depending on where you live.
they were designed for the monopole version, so fitting them should be quite easy.
just drill some holes in the mdf mounting plate, and find some longer screws to replace the standard ones on the RAAL front plate.
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it's made by autotech so you could buy them here:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/fiberglass-seos/seosraal.html (http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic-seos-12/fiberglass-seos/seosraal.html)
and probably some other retailer, depending on where you live.
they were designed for the monopole version, so fitting them should be quite easy.
just drill some holes in the mdf mounting plate, and find some longer screws to replace the standard ones on the RAAL front plate.
Thanks!
Can you just give a short comparison of the sound of the Raal with and without the wg? Lastly, will it go down to 1200hz as the specs say?
Thanks in advance!
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Thanks!
Can you just give a short comparison of the sound of the Raal with and without the wg? Lastly, will it go down to 1200hz as the specs say?
Thanks in advance!
i cross them at 2500hz and probably wouldn't go any lower.
the reason for the low limit of the horn, is that you don't want that limit to be anyway near your XO point if you want them to sound any good.
compared with the stock ribbon, the horn has a very good disperion off axis, and more power below 6k hz.
when i compared them, i found the horns to give a more tactile and punchy sound to the speakers.
good off axis disperion is also a plus, as my livingroom is untreated.
here is a measurement of the RAAL with and without the horn.
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/203951d1371385481-byob-pen-baffel-med-og-uten-horn-2k-24lr.jpg)
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Thank you Bjarnetv! :-)
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openly baffled Nipper :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=89936)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91880)
The Hestia-forte is the 3rd incarnation of the Hestia series featured on AudioCircle. It is capable of producing near concert level SPL's and incorporates easy construction techniques. The new minimalist crossover coupled with efficient drivers allows the top section to be driven by an SET or small Tripath amp.
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Wow! Great fun following the Hestia's evolution.
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Thanks Poultry. Sometimes I think there is a fine line between fun and obsession, lol.
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Good photo too. Nice light and shading. I guess you live somewhere warm?
Greg
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Good photo too. Nice light and shading. I guess you live somewhere warm?
Greg
Boca Raton, Florida
Or so his profile says.
I woke up to 7 degrees today. So "yes", I noticed the tropical foliage too. :lol:
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91880)
The Hestia-forte is the 3rd incarnation of the Hestia series featured on AudioCircle. It is capable of producing near concert level SPL's and incorporates easy construction techniques. The new minimalist crossover coupled with efficient drivers allows the top section to be driven by an SET or small Tripath amp.
Hi matevana and all Audio Circle members.
Nice work.
Is there anyay we can see a picture of the minimalist cross-over?
Will you have some kind of spikes on the bottom section?
How about the top section,
will it eventually have a matching color with the bottom section?
Guy 13
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Boca Raton, Florida
Or so his profile says.
I woke up to 7 degrees today. So "yes", I noticed the tropical foliage too. :lol:
Haha, sorry guys. It's gonna hit 83 on Christmas day. There's just something WRONG about that!
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Haha, sorry guys. It's gonna hit 83 on Christmas day. There's just something WRONG about that!
Hmm....I'll give you the same reply I gave Jerry here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121924.msg1288480#msg1288480
Bob :wink:
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Why is it that you never hear about anyone who retires and moves north? :thumb:
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Bastanis Mandala modified with wings.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71712)
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Why is it that you never hear about anyone who retires and moves north? :thumb:
Hi Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
When I will retire in 30 years from now or when I will be 95
I will go (BacK) North, Canada that is. :thumb:
Guy 13
The Canadian, not the Vietnamese... :lol:
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Bastanis Mandala modified with wings.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71712)
Hi unit and all Audio Circle members.
Nice and huge set up.
May I ask what are the (Look like) little doors at the bottom of the enclosures?
Maybe a close up of it would help.
Guy 13
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93747)
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Beauty is just a light switch away. :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93748)
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(http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o624/6thplanet/Open%20Invit8tions/OpenInvit8tions_zps92f5cd47.jpg) (http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/6thplanet/media/Open%20Invit8tions/OpenInvit8tions_zps92f5cd47.jpg.html)
These are my Open Invit8tion project. LCY110 (Faceplate removed) Audax Aerogel mid (HM130Z0) and Peerless SLS woofers (830667)
Its a completely passive set up. I used the AR-SX serial xover between the mid/tweeter and a 12dB xover on the H-frames.
Build pics:
http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/6thplanet/library/Open%20Invit8tions
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Hey Geist... how do these sound? I've been buying vintage drivers and have a bunch waiting to be dropped into a beautifully constructed baffle like yours. :D
Curious what you think of what looks like a Zenith/Magnavox 12in and likely matching horn tweets?!?
Thanks!
Beauty is just a light switch away. :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=93748)
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Hey Geist... how do these sound? I've been buying vintage drivers and have a bunch waiting to be dropped into a beautifully constructed baffle like yours. :D
Curious what you think of what looks like a Zenith/Magnavox 12in and likely matching horn tweets?!?
Thanks!
The Zenith alnico wide banders were pulled from an open back console. That usually means they'll work well in OB and they really do. I see these on ebay going for peanuts. The Pioneer horn tweets are PE buyouts using just a single cap.
While beauty is only skin deep, ugly goes all the way to the bone. :lol:
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My new open baffles
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95012)
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Nice work herby
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Hi herby and all Audio Circle members.
Very nice and simple set up.
Is that a Transcendent OTL amplifier?
Did you buy it as a kit?
May you share with us what make and model of drivers
makes your nice looking speakers?
Thanks.
Guy 13
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Hi guy,
Yes you are correct, it is a transcendent amp I bought it second hand ready made.. The two amps on the wooden plinths are Meridian 105 mono blocks plus I have a couple of tripath amps 2020 and a 2024. But the amp I am currently using is a Altmann clone I built, I have another post running on it under solid state. For source I have a couple of dac boards tda and akm based, a modified play station one top left on the rack. I also have a systemdex record deck which I have made a unipivit tonearm for, I play that through a valve phono stage upper right on the rack.
As for the speakers they consist of 15" bass drivers, I bought these used so not sure of their make, the mids are nos vintage seas units with alnico magnets and are very efficient, with a spl of 96.the ribbon tweeter is from fountex and has a spl of 97, so all drivers match well leading to a simple crossover. You probably cant make out on the pictures but the speakers are covered in a cream leather, and the mid and tweeter baffle, I made out of some old oak flooring. I think the cream leather and the oak look quite classy looking together. Glad you like.
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Hi guy,
Yes you are correct, it is a transcendent amp I bought it second hand ready made.. The two amps on the wooden plinths are Meridian 105 mono blocks plus I have a couple of tripath amps 2020 and a 2024. But the amp I am currently using is a Altmann clone I built, I have another post running on it under solid state. For source I have a couple of dac boards tda and akm based, a modified play station one top left on the rack. I also have a systemdex record deck which I have made a unipivit tonearm for, I play that through a valve phono stage upper right on the rack.
As for the speakers they consist of 15" bass drivers, I bought these used so not sure of their make, the mids are nos vintage seas units with alnico magnets and are very efficient, with a spl of 96.the ribbon tweeter is from fountex and has a spl of 97, so all drivers match well leading to a simple crossover. You probably cant make out on the pictures but the speakers are covered in a cream leather, and the mid and tweeter baffle, I made out of some old oak flooring. I think the cream leather and the oak look quite classy looking together. Glad you like.
Hi herby and all Audio Circle members.
I love it.
You are a talented DIYer.
Really nice and everything match perfectly color and material wise.
Thanks for taking the time to comment your nice system.
Guy 13
The guy with five thumbs instead of four fingers and one thumb.
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(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2656/n3r4.jpg)
I am very intrigued by the SEOS waveguide for the 140-15D dipole. How do you like the sound compared to no waveguide? I have a pair of these ribbons and planning my next build but I had no idea about these waveguides, very cool stuff. Is it mostly to control dispersion of the ribbon to match the mids? Or boost low-end efficiency?
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I am very intrigued by the SEOS waveguide for the 140-15D dipole. How do you like the sound compared to no waveguide? I have a pair of these ribbons and planning my next build but I had no idea about these waveguides, very cool stuff. Is it mostly to control dispersion of the ribbon to match the mids? Or boost low-end efficiency?
i bought the waveguide mainly to match the forward dispersion with the ja8008 on a minimal baffle.
it needs some EQ to play as flat as the stock ribbon, but to my ears the hornloaded ribbon has more punch and liveliness.
my living-room is also acoustically untreated, so i suspect controlled dispersion helps the sound a lot.
if you plan to cross low, the added sensitivity below 5k also comes in handy :wink:
here you see the difference between stock (red) and waveguide (green) on axis
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/205492d1372431765-byob-pen-baffel-passiv-xo-med-waveguide.jpg)
raal 0-90 dispersion without waveguide:
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/204214d1371564665-byob-pen-baffel-raal-uten-horn.jpg)
here you see how the raal+waveguide 0-70 dispersion matches the mid on an early prototype without proper EQ and XO
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/213750d1377781584-byob-pen-baffel-0-70-horn-lengre-bak-1-3.jpg)
and a more current measurement after going full active.
(left and right speaker, mic placed in listening position, the lines are 5db apart)
(http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/mitt-anlegg-og-billedtra-der/251286d1395845154-bjarnetvs-hi-fi-v1.jpg)
i have since raised the volume of the tweeter and adjusted the woofer/mid xo, but i dont have any screenshots.
-
Very impressive, thanks for the info and detailed graphs!
-
Fostex FE103-SOL-8 (50th anniversary edition) over Alpha15A
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110122)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110123)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110125)
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Fostex FE103-SOL-8 (50th anniversary edition) over Alpha15A
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110122)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110123)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110125)
A few questions please:
How do you find the FE103 anniver. model? which FR did you use before this model if possible can you describe the sound compared with the previous FR you use.
-
Eminence Beta 12LTA with craft egg phase plug over H-frame Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82153)
-
A few questions please:
How do you find the FE103 anniver. model?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=manufacturer&parent=0&mid=25&search_in=all&search_str=&pg=1
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A few questions please:
How do you find the FE103 anniver. model? which FR did you use before this model if possible can you describe the sound compared with the previous FR you use.
WBA Betsy was the only driver that i tried in OB. Decent FR for the money but to my ears FE103 Sol sounds better.Fast ,cleaner midrange with much better extension .
-
Opnly bffld and aragon63,
Thanks, Aragon63 any freq response curve from FE103?
-
I've not tried the Fostex FE103.
I have used the 4.5 inch FE126En in OB. Although more detailed the Fostex sounded thin compared to the 8 inch WBAL Betsy.
My preference is for drivers 8 inches or above. Really liked the 8 inch TB W8-1808 but loved the 12 inch Beta 12LTA.
The Beta's grand sense of scale still amazes me. Less refined than the DX3 but in it's own way just as enjoyable.
-
Pro audio FR dont work as OB. :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22372)
-
Hi FullRangeMan,
what do you call Pro Audio, is that a make or model?
Please explain a little more.
Thanks.
Guy 13
-
Pro audio FR dont work as OB. :duh:
They sound MUCH better standing up.
-
They sound MUCH better standing up.
Hi Bob,
Bob you know nothing about those speakers, :nono:
those are the sharing type of speakers,
you share your music with the guys downstairs. :lol:
Guy 13
-
Oh ok. That makes sense.
I thought they were a half dipole rear wave vertical dispersing omni-directional hybrid.
-
Hi FullRangeMan,
what do you call Pro Audio, is that a make or model?
Please explain a little more.
Thanks.
Guy 13
Thanks Guy you most kind as always.
They are 10'' Eros 251V 200Wrms sound reinforcementf FR, the QTS is low=0,26.
OBS.: The new Eros E251V have a higher QTS=-0,584
http://www.ninjaproaudio.com.br/produto/72/alto-falante-10-quot-200w-rms-4-ohms-e251v-eros-alto-falante-e-251v-4-ohms-eros.html
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Pro audio FR dont work as OB. :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22372)
Have you tried mounting them from the rear and beveling the fronts.... ?
-
Have you tried mounting them from the rear and beveling the fronts.... ?
No, just inline as in the photo.
-
I've not tried the Fostex FE103.
IMO a fine driver (I have 4 ~ FE107E the shielded/discontinued :( brother).
Smaller drivers and larger ones each have their pros and cons, just have to run the helper woofers a little higher with the little guys.
-
GR-Research LGK Wedgies
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110485)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110486)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110487)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110488)
I haven't built the bass sections yet. That will be this winter
Mike
-
Damn Mlundy57. Those look great and without any West Systems epoxy :D
You've come a long way :thumb:
-
Damn Mlundy57. Those look great and without any West Systems epoxy :D
You've come a long way :thumb:
Thanks WireNut. Yep, just shellack, no epoxy. I have everything I need to use West systems, just haven't got up the nerve to try any yet. Once I get caught up on build projects I will probably build another test box and experiment with the epoxy. I may even experiment using the epoxy to bond the box sides together.
Mike
-
THose are beautiful Mike. What drivers are those???
-
THose are beautiful Mike. What drivers are those???
http://gr-research.com/lgk10.aspx
-
LX521's, finished and ready to be used (now in use)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=115185)
-
WEST Epoxy System can make drop dead pretty complex curve objects. I have seen sailboats and canoes at the same quality as real nice loudspeakers.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/projects/
-
I expected to see at least one example of the French PHY-HP speakers set up in the factory recommended cabinet of double-walled construction that is sand filled with folding wings.
People who have actually heard them in the designer's setup said they shook the sand-filled cement block floor of his listening room.
-
This is a pair a I made, simple 1.5" MDF, sprayed with automotive flat black and the fronts are veneered with Rosewood and finished with Linseed Oil. So everything is very soft. They are heavy. The base is 2.25" thick, the wings/braces are 1.5" thick. I only put the wings/braces on for support, I think it helps in sound improvement, by improving the structures weight a stability.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121881)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121883)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121884)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121886)
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Those are NICE Bladesmith!
I imagine the wings are functional and also help support the lower bass (Cancellation loss). Almost 1/2 of an "H frame"
-
Here is my GR-Research Wedgies on top of their GR-Research/Rythmik servo OB bass units (H-Frames). The bass units cover from 20Hz to 200Hz while the Wedgies play from 200Hz to 20kHz. The subs are stereo.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122291)
Mike
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Hi there,
These are my OB, I am using a full range unit of my own design, special designed for OB.. I use a sub for frequency’s below 80 Hz.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125489)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125490)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125491)
-
:dunno:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22372)
-
They don't sound good like that. ^^^^
-
They don't sound good like that. ^^^^
A little flat sounding?
-
THose are beautiful Mike. What drivers are those???
I apologize for taking so long to answer your question, don't know how I missed it.
The tweeter is a BG Neo3 PDR planer magnetic (currently unavailable due to sale of BG to Christie Digital).
The midrange drivers are GR-Research LGK's. While actually a full range driver, in this application the LGK's roll off at 200Hz so they perform as midrange drivers. Because of this, a sub unit that can play up to 200Hz is necessary.
Danny Ritchie has recently designed a wedge shaped OB bass unit using three GR-Research/Rythmik 8" servo drivers and an HX300 amp per side. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135399.0 Alternately, you could use two 12" servo drivers and an A370PEQ amp per side for more low end output.
I am currently in the process of building a pair of the wedge bass units with three 8" drivers per side to go with a pair of Wedgies I'm building for someone else.
Mike
-
A little flat sounding?
:lol: :thumb:
-
I wish I could say I built these, but I didn't. I bought these AV123 X-Statik's brand new nearly 8 years ago. Still in absolute mint shape and have been all original this entire time up until just a few days ago when I soldered in the upgraded capacitors and resistors that Danny recommends for these. Definitely worth the $200 investment on that little upgrade.
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1522841357-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1522841401-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1515230634-5.jpg)
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-2/p1515231331-5.jpg)
-
Betsy and Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130708)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130709)
Sorry for the pics being sideways.....
-
Betsy and Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130708)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130709)
Sorry for the pics being sideways.....
Very cool, I like the design. How do they sound?
Best,
Ed
-
Hi zimmer64,
here they are in the right position.
By the way, I like the configuration of your Open Baffle.
I wonder of your way is better than my mine ?
Cannot post a picture of mine,
maybe later, the Internet connection is too slow right now.
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130724)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130725)
-
@Guy 13: Thanks for turning the pictures. I could not do this on the iPad
@ebag4: They sound pretty good.
The slot loading lowers the FS a bit. They produce lots of bass output, no sub woofers required. I am using a Behringer DCX 2496 as crossover and 2 gain clones for active amplification. I crossed over at 200Hz 6dB Butterworth high pass and 24 dB LR low pass. Betsy needs quite some EQ in the treble region. I will either add a dipole tweeter crossed between 3-4 Khz and make it a 3 way design or replace Betsy with the Tangband W8-1772.
-
Hi zimmer64,
here they are in the right position.
By the way, I like the configuration of your Open Baffle.
I wonder of your way is better than my mine ?
Cannot post a picture of mine,
maybe later, the Internet connection is too slow right now.
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130724)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130725)
Your datalink is 15Mbits this is not slow.
-
Hello everybody.
Two years ago, I decided to build my own loudspeakers.
The speakers I was using at the time were very good, but needed a lot of volume/power to open up, especially in the bass region.
I wanted my speakers to sound good at all level I might conceivably use, but especially with low levels, so I can enjoy music when the kids are sleeping.
I eventually ended up building open baffle speaker after I heard a very promising implementation.
I was very kindly offered to try a 130 cm ribbon driver, which I was allowed to spend several months with before deciding to buy it.
For the bass system, I decided to go for GR-research OB subs, having heard Erpeders speakers, and also a pair of AE 18" dipole units.
It has taken me a while, but last week I finally had them both up and running.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130993)
The baffles are made from 4 mm steel, and has a wing on the side next to the mid-drivers, inspired by Danny Richies designs.
On the back of the steel I have glued a 30 mm slab of Baltic Birch ply to mount the midrange drivers in, ensuring a 2 mm layer of non-hardening glue.
This is to reduce vibrations transferred to the metal baffle, and to give me the 6 mm recess needed to mount the Vifa-drivers flush.
I have treated the steel with acid, in order to give it a sort of 'natural' look.
Cheers!
The Priest
-
Hi there,
These are my OB, I am using a full range unit of my own design, special designed for OB.. I use a sub for frequency’s below 80 Hz.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125489)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125490)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=125491)
Hello Frank ,
Very nice setup , speakers look like maggies from the side :) What amplfiers are you using? they look proper .
Regards
-
I have treated the steel with acid, in order to give it a sort of 'natural' look.
Cheers!
The Priest
Great looking arrays. Any chance we could see some close-ups of the metal finishing? I've played around with chemical patinas and am always curious to see what others have done.
-
Thanks Peter.
I'll try to take a few pics, but it is very dark when I get home from work, so it might have to wait until the weekend.
/The Priest
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131115)
Hi all,
maybe next year,
I will be reunited with my beloved sound system
and if I can find a few boards of MDF
I will do some experimenting
with the four extra 12 inches Eminence Acoustinator woofers
driven by my GR Research 250 watts plate amplifiers.
I might try the U frame configuration and compare them side by side
with my H frame enclosures ????
I wonder if any AudioCircle members did that side by side comparaison.
Guy 13
-
@Guy 13: Thanks for turning the pictures. I could not do this on the iPad
@ebag4: They sound pretty good.
The slot loading lowers the FS a bit. They produce lots of bass output, no sub woofers required. I am using a Behringer DCX 2496 as crossover and 2 gain clones for active amplification. I crossed over at 200Hz 6dB Butterworth high pass and 24 dB LR low pass. Betsy needs quite some EQ in the treble region. I will either add a dipole tweeter crossed between 3-4 Khz and make it a 3 way design or replace Betsy with the Tangband W8-1772.
Hi zimmer64,
it's too bad Omega does not sell anymore his Omega 7F. :(
I wonder how it would compare to the Betsy or TangBand W8-1772 ?????
Guy 13
-
Hi zimmer64,
it's too bad Omega does not sell anymore his Omega 7F. :(
I wonder how it would compare to the Betsy or TangBand W8-1772 ?????
Guy 13
Hi,
I now ordered a tweeter (BG Neo-3) and will report back as soon as it is installed.
Michael
-
Hi,
I now ordered a tweeter (BG Neo-3) and will report back as soon as it is installed.
Michael
Hello, do you mind sharing where you found the BG Neo3 for sale?
Best,
Ed
-
Ordered it here last week: http://www.audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index%5Bshop_articles%5D%5Baction%5D=overview&index%5Bshop_articles%5D%5Bcategory%5D=11
149 Euro a pop minus VAT plus pp
-
.
-
WOW !
Micheal that post # 133 of yours is the shortest in AudioCircle history. :lol:
Guy 13
-
Hi zimmer64,
it's too bad Omega does not sell anymore his Omega 7F. :(
I wonder how it would compare to the Betsy or TangBand W8-1772 ?????
Guy 13
You dont like the 96db Visaton B200?
and Planet10 have wood phase plugs.
-
You dont like the 96db Visaton B200?
and Planet10 have wood phase plugs.
Hi FullRangeMan.
It's not that I don't like the Visaton B200,
it's the fact that Omega is Made in the US of A
and I like that.
For the Planet10, unless I am wrong,
I think their sensibility is very low.
Any drivers with less than 92dB is not compatible
with my Decware SE84C+ at 2wpc.
If one day my Omega 7F failed,
I will see with what I will replace them with
and I am sure that my search wont be easy,
let's just hope they last until I kick the bucket. :thumb:
Guy 13
-
Hi FullRangeMan.
It's not that I don't like the Visaton B200,
it's the fact that Omega is Made in the US of A
and I like that.
For the Planet10, unless I am wrong,
I think their sensibility is very low.
Any drivers with less than 92dB is not compatible
with my Decware SE84C+ at 2wpc.
If one day my Omega 7F failed,
I will see with what I will replace them with
and I am sure that my search wont be easy,
let's just hope they last until I kick the bucket. :thumb:
Guy 13
I mean day Planet10 have phaseplugs for the B200.
I think B200 is 96dB as OB, do you think otherwise?
-
I mean day Planet10 have phaseplugs for the B200.
I think B200 is 96dB as OB, do you think otherwise?
Hi (Again) FullRangeMan,
I cannot comment on the sensivity of the Visaton B200
mainly because I am (For now) not interested in looking
at any other full - extended range drivers.
With a 2wpc amplifier, a 96dB driver is almost a must.
Guy 13
-
I used the b200's on OB for over 8 years. I ran them with an SEP el84 Maggie amp. 3-4wpc max. The Planet10 phase plugs were an excellent improvement for a little $.
Loved those speakers. I used diy 12 subs on each panel, biamped wih a plate amp.
-
Great looking arrays. Any chance we could see some close-ups of the metal finishing? I've played around with chemical patinas and am always curious to see what others have done.
Hi Peter.
I managed to shoot a few pic the other day.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131286)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131287)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=131288)
I used acetic acid mixed in sand and spread it over the surface of the (non-stainless) steel.
The Priest
-
Acetic acid and sand. :thumb: I had never heard of that treatment. What strength acetic acid did you use?
I have to say I like the results. The lack of nasty inorganic acids (sulfuric, nitric, or hydrochloric) to dispose of is also a big bonus.
-
I used normal consumer strenght 32% acid, bought in the local super market.
I poured sand on to the steel, acid in the sand, and mixed the two things with a gloved hand.
After two or three days, it had some beautiful orange colours in the top rusted layer (flakes).
Unfortunately, these came off when brushed.
I had to brush the surface to keep it the rust from falling off in doors, and on top of it, I have given it a layer of bees wax.
The Priest
-
Acetic acid and sand. :thumb: I had never heard of that treatment. What strength acetic acid did you use?
I have to say I like the results. The lack of nasty inorganic acids (sulfuric, nitric, or hydrochloric) to dispose of is also a big bonus.
Acetic acid is also know as vinegar for salad.
-
I don't think "vinegar" I used is suitable for salad :lol:
But yes, it s basically the same, though I do think the concentrations are different...
The Priest
-
The Priest,
Did you have to neutralize the acid or just rinse thoroughly. I would think rinsing would be adequate.
Did brushing off the rust leave a textured surface? I can't quite tell from the pictures but the darker spots look like pits.
-
I don't think I neutralized it, the acid was not that strong.
I rinsed it with water and let it dry before I added the bees wax.
The surface is slightly textured, but whether it is pits or 'bubbles' from the rust is difficult to tell.
If they are pits, they are not very deep at least.
Maybe a Braille reader will be able to tell :D
The Priest
-
Hi guys,
Update from my side. I have added a BG Neo-3. The system is tri-amplified fully active using a Behringer DCX 2496 crossover, two DIY Gainclones for bass and midrange and a DIY Tubelab SSE , a passive DIY preamp and a line driver from Abacus.
The crossover points are:
Low pass 200 Hz, 18dB Butterworth
Band pass 20o Hz – 2000 Hz 18 dB Butterworth
High pass 2000 Hz 24 dB Butterworth
No EQ is used
The midrange is reduced by -5 dB
The tweeter is boosted by 5dB to compensate the tube amps sensitivity difference
(https://zimmer64.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/img_0056.jpg?w=470)
The response from the front:
(https://zimmer64.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/response-70cm-in-front.jpg)
More pictures are in my blog https://zimmer64.wordpress.com/2015/11/08/bg-neo3-betsy-eminence-alpha-15-a-mk-iii/ (https://zimmer64.wordpress.com/2015/11/08/bg-neo3-betsy-eminence-alpha-15-a-mk-iii/).
Regards
Michael
-
Tanks Micheal for the link to your blog,
I had a good look at your set up.
Nice place you've got,
are you an artist painter ?
Are you planning some acoustic treatment in a near future ?
Guy 13
-
Tanks Micheal for the link to your blog,
I had a good look at your set up.
Nice place you've got,
are you an artist painter ?
Are you planning some acoustic treatment in a near future ?
Guy 13
My wife is an artist painter. It's her atelier, so acoustic treatment will not be done :-(
-
My wife is an artist painter. It's her atelier, so acoustic treatment will not be done :-(
Hi again.
It's too bad that there's no chance to have any acoustic treatment
in there, because you have good speakers and they deserve better room.
Thanks for posting.
Guy 13
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90465)
My current system, two AE Dipole 15 woofers in offset H frames and a Lowther PM2C on an OB. Biamped with 200 W per channel solid state amps and a dBx Driverack PA active crossover.
Do you run any EQ on the Lowther?
-
Here's what you don't see very often -- OB monitors:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132413)
-
Open question(s) to OB fans:
Can any driver, be it a tweeter, midrange, or woofer, be used in an open baffle design? If the answer is no, what factors determine a driver's suitability?
P.S. to Early B.:
I have often wondered about whether an OB monitor were feasible. Thanks!
Michael
-
P.S. to Early B.:
I have often wondered about whether an OB monitor were feasible. Thanks!
Totally feasible!!! Of course, you'll need subs to mate with them. I literally waited a few years for someone to design a pair of OB monitors, and Hawthorne Audio along with Danny Richie came through in a huge way.
-
Open question(s) to OB fans:
Can any driver, be it a tweeter, midrange, or woofer, be used in an open baffle design? If the answer is no, what factors determine a driver's suitability?
P.S. to Early B.:
I have often wondered about whether an OB monitor were feasible. Thanks!
Michael
If you're using a passive crossover, the woofer should have high (>.7) Qt - which is why the Eminence Alpha 15a is used so often.
You can use whatever you want for the midrange and tweeter; but if the tweeter isn't open-backed, that will effects your radiation pattern. (Which can be bad or good - it really depends on your goals - but probably explains why so many designs use wide /full range drivers)
The woofer should be at least 10db more efficient than the other drivers, to compensate for baffle step loss.
If you're using active crossover/digital eq, pretty much any drivers can be made to work. Just make sure your woofer has enough xmax and power handling.
I can't recommend Martin King's quarterwave.org site enough - his articles are well written and the MathCad worksheets are phenomenal.
Once you have the bass sorted (ie, your woofer is efficient enough, or you're using multiple woofs) then normal speaker design goals apply: low distortion, flat frequency response, smooth off-axis response (a big weakness of designs that use wide band drivers, alas), etc etc.
If you have the space, dipoles are wonderful. I like Magnapans, but they need lots of amp. I like Quad ESL 57s, too, but they're also hard to drive, and don't play loud. I just built Martin King's Fostex Fe103/Eminence Alpha 15a project, and like a lot of what it does (I need to make a few changes to it after the holidays before rendering a more definitive verdict).
If you've never done one before, I recommend doing a project that someone has debugged, and that's technically sound - either one of Martin King's, or the Manzanita or ... (senior moment ... there's another one AC)
-
Here's what you don't see very often -- OB monitors:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132413)
Have any more pics, they look interesting..
-
Have any more pics, they look interesting..
Review and more pics here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138878.msg1478779#msg1478779
-
If you've never done one before, I recommend doing a project that someone has debugged, and that's technically sound - either one of Martin King's, or the Manzanita or ... (senior moment ... there's another one AC)
Perhaps Matevanas Hestia OB projects?
/The Priest
-
If you're using a passive crossover, the woofer should have high (>.7) Qt - which is why the Eminence Alpha 15a is used so often.
You can use whatever you want for the midrange and tweeter; but if the tweeter isn't open-backed, that will effects your radiation pattern. (Which can be bad or good - it really depends on your goals - but probably explains why so many designs use wide /full range drivers)
The woofer should be at least 10db more efficient than the other drivers, to compensate for baffle step loss.
If you're using active crossover/digital eq, pretty much any drivers can be made to work. Just make sure your woofer has enough xmax and power handling.
I can't recommend Martin King's quarterwave.org site enough - his articles are well written and the MathCad worksheets are phenomenal.
Once you have the bass sorted (ie, your woofer is efficient enough, or you're using multiple woofs) then normal speaker design goals apply: low distortion, flat frequency response, smooth off-axis response (a big weakness of designs that use wide band drivers, alas), etc etc.
If you have the space, dipoles are wonderful. I like Magnapans, but they need lots of amp. I like Quad ESL 57s, too, but they're also hard to drive, and don't play loud. I just built Martin King's Fostex Fe103/Eminence Alpha 15a project, and like a lot of what it does (I need to make a few changes to it after the holidays before rendering a more definitive verdict).
If you've never done one before, I recommend doing a project that someone has debugged, and that's technically sound - either one of Martin King's, or the Manzanita or ... (senior moment ... there's another one AC)
An alternative to Maggies is the Eminent Technology LFT-8b. It is also a magnetic-planar dipole (above the 1st order 180Hz x/o frequency, below which a sealed 8" cone woofer provides bass), but needs less power and is more tube amp friendly, both a result of being an 8ohm load rather than the Maggie 4ohm. It is also different from the Maggie in being a push-pull design, with magnets on both sides of the diaphragm. And Danny Richie's OB/Dipole sub can easily be substituted for the ET woofer (or used as a woofer for Quads), for a full-range OB/Dipole loudspeaker at an affordable price.
-
Have any more pics, they look interesting..
Here's the build thread;
http://www.hawthorneaudio.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5196
-
An alternative to Maggies is the Eminent Technology LFT-8b. It is also a magnetic-planar dipole (above the 1st order 180Hz x/o frequency, below which a sealed 8" cone woofer provides bass), but needs less power and is more tube amp friendly, both a result of being an 8ohm load rather than the Maggie 4ohm. It is also different from the Maggie in being a push-pull design, with magnets on both sides of the diaphragm. And Danny Richie's OB/Dipole sub can easily be substituted for the ET woofer (or used as a woofer for Quads), for a full-range OB/Dipole loudspeaker at an affordable price.
The ET-8b is a fascinating design; not well-distributed, alas, and not often found used (which is how I typically buy stuff). Great review by REG here: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/eminent-technology-lft-8b-loudspeaker/
The local shoemaker has a pair in his shop, but only used for background music. If you have a chance to hear them, you really should.
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https://youtu.be/_wNfHkb4Ytk
(https://youtu.be/_wNfHkb4Ytk)
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My open baffle planar hybrid speaker. GR-Research did the baffle design ideas. Got the drivers moded BG NEO3PDR and 2x12 servo subs from GR-Research and BG NEO10's from Parts-Express before BG was sold.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133022)
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My open baffle planar hybrid speaker. GR-Research did the baffle design ideas. Got the drivers moded BG NEO3PDR and 2x12 servo subs from GR-Research and BG NEO10's from Parts-Express before BG was sold.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133022)
Wow. You got some sweet gear....
Thanks for sharing. ..
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wNfHkb4Ytk
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My open baffle planar hybrid speaker. GR-Research did the baffle design ideas. Got the drivers moded BG NEO3PDR and 2x12 servo subs from GR-Research and BG NEO10's from Parts-Express before BG was sold.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133022)
What is the nature of the x/o between the subs and the speakers? The Rythmik plate amp has it's own controls, of course, which allow the OB sub to be used up to around 300Hz (thanks to the OB shelving circuit). How high do you use yours, and at what settings? And then how about the high-pass filter for the upper drivers? I'll bet you're really glad you got the BG drivers when you did!
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My open baffle planar hybrid speaker. GR-Research did the baffle design ideas. Got the drivers moded BG NEO3PDR and 2x12 servo subs from GR-Research and BG NEO10's from Parts-Express before BG was sold.
Care to share the crossover transfer curves that you are using this this system?
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I am running the dspMusik digital crossover with single pole butterworth HP at 250Hz on the NEO10's. Running the Rythmik HX300 at 200Hz and still working on the best setup between the servo subs and NEO10's. I may have to switch to the Rythmik PEQ370's I have for the 2x12's to get better integration with the NEO10's.
The NEO10's and NEO3's are running from ChipAmps being driven with the dspMusik.
Very glad I bought the BG drivers when I did.
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Care to share the crossover transfer curves that you are using this this system?
When I have the XO's finalized, will post the frequency response plots for the XO transfer functions of the mid's and tweeters. Will do near field measurements of the servo subs.
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I am running the dspMusik digital crossover with single pole butterworth HP at 250Hz on the NEO10's. Running the Rythmik HX300 at 200Hz and still working on the best setup between the servo subs and NEO10's. I may have to switch to the Rythmik PEQ370's I have for the 2x12's to get better integration with the NEO10's.
The NEO10's and NEO3's are running from ChipAmps being driven with the dspMusik.
Very glad I bought the BG drivers when I did.
Single pole Butterworth meaning 1st order, 6dB/octave?
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Yes. Working with the rolloff of the driver at that frequency.
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I am running the dspMusik digital crossover with single pole butterworth HP at 250Hz on the NEO10's. Running the Rythmik HX300 at 200Hz and still working on the best setup between the servo subs and NEO10's. I may have to switch to the Rythmik PEQ370's I have for the 2x12's to get better integration with the NEO10's.
The NEO10's and NEO3's are running from ChipAmps being driven with the dspMusik.
Very glad I bought the BG drivers when I did.
Please be cautious with such a shallow XO at that low of a frequency with the Neo10s. They're really not mean to go that low unless used in a line source or with steeper slopes. You are at the lower limits where distortion starts to increase dramatically. Not sure how loudly you tend to listen, but that's always a factor as well. If you tend to keep below 90dB, you ought to be OK, I guess.
Greg
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Greg,
Thanks for the feedback.
I am not listening loud at this point, but understand the caution. The room is very quiet, so that helps a lot.
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Greg,
Thanks for the feedback.
I am not listening loud at this point, but understand the caution. The room is very quiet, so that helps a lot.
Nice to have a quiet room for sure. One of the best upgrades for improved low level detail.
Since you've got the nice DSP and measurement capabilities, try other slopes while you're at it. Don't get sucked into the whole less-is-more philosophy before hearing higher order slopes. Can't wait for the final results. Ought to be good.
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My ugly (compared to some in this thread anyway!) 2-ways... Based on MJK's work, these are Goldwood GW-1858's in H-Frames with Audio Nirvana Super 8's on top. Between the two are thin ply boxes containing 50lbs of concrete patio block in each. All the construction is 3/4" baltic birch ply (11 ply). I used a miniDSP for quite awhile but the added hiss in the high end drove me crazy. I recently picked up a pair of Crown XLS 1500 amps on close out sale and now run their internal 24db LR crossovers between the H-Frames and the Super 8's. I've experimented a bit but tend to think the combo sounds best XO'd around 125Hz... No sub is required in this room :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133205)
They seem to blend pretty well. According to the RTA plugin I run in Foobar2000, these kettle drums have significant energy into the 20Hz region (and probably lower). Sorry for video and sound recording quality of my cell phone:
https://youtu.be/AIXetGn0x4Q
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My ugly (compared to some in this thread anyway!) 2-ways... Based on MJK's work, these are Goldwood GW-1858's in H-Frames with Audio Nirvana Super 8's on top. Between the two are thin ply boxes containing 50lbs of concrete patio block in each. All the construction is 3/4" baltic birch ply (11 ply). I used a miniDSP for quite awhile but the added hiss in the high end drove me crazy. I recently picked up a pair of Crown XLS 1500 amps on close out sale and now run their internal 24db LR crossovers between the H-Frames and the Super 8's. I've experimented a bit but tend to think the combo sounds best XO'd around 125Hz... No sub is required in this room :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133205)
They seem to blend pretty well. According to the RTA plugin I run in Foobar2000, these kettle drums have significant energy into the 20Hz region (and probably lower). Sorry for video and sound recording quality of my cell phone:
https://youtu.be/AIXetGn0x4Q
You dont walk in the room to show the sound nuance and room acoustics, this fixed camera looks like a direct recording from CD, not your speakers.
Nice cat BTW.
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You dont walk in the room to show the sound nuance and room acoustics, this fixed camera looks like a direct recording from CD, not your speakers.
Nice cat BTW.
House was (is) a mess with the holidays going on. Forgot to turn on the auto-video stabilization (don't really shoot much video with my phone) but here you go ;)
https://youtu.be/2IFg2BkSn-o
And that cat?!?! "Go with a single big port", she said, "not some skinny pipe.", she said...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133220)
And I was just about to follow her advice trying cat litter in the bottom as a quick and easy way to add some mass...
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Please be cautious with such a shallow XO at that low of a frequency with the Neo10s. They're really not mean to go that low unless used in a line source or with steeper slopes. You are at the lower limits where distortion starts to increase dramatically. Not sure how loudly you tend to listen, but that's always a factor as well. If you tend to keep below 90dB, you ought to be OK, I guess.
Greg
+1 Agree. In addition, this driver would require some dipole/baffle step correction down low, further exacerbating the condition.
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House was (is) a mess with the holidays going on. Forgot to turn on the auto-video stabilization (don't really shoot much video with my phone) but here you go ;)
https://youtu.be/2IFg2BkSn-o
And that cat?!?! "Go with a single big port", she said, "not some skinny pipe.", she said...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133220)
And I was just about to follow her advice trying cat litter in the bottom as a quick and easy way to add some mass...
Now its OK, thanks for posting.
The woffer is nice integrated seems.
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My speakers
YAOBS (Yet another open baffle speaker)
Fostex T500mkII
Fostex FE203En-S
Acoustic Elegance Dipole15
FirstWatt B5 x-over between AE and Fostex.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1510/24017553562_bb65eee8eb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CAmeV5)
YAOBS #2 (https://flic.kr/p/CAmeV5) by Morten Teinum (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mortenteinum/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1583/23540122254_161aaf03b8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BSahdN)
Birds view (https://flic.kr/p/BSahdN) by Morten Teinum (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mortenteinum/), on Flickr
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Nice room for a planar. D
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A warm welcome to AudioCircle Mr. Mteinum.
Nice set up you've got there.
The speakers are not in the listening position,
there are too close to the back wall ?
Guy 13
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That is a lovely room. Touches of modern, mid century modern, clean lines and coordinated white components.
I don't often see white OB speakers, cool implementation!
I am feeling that orange wallpaper too!
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Beautiful room!! :thumb: Did you build the speakers?
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A warm welcome to AudioCircle Mr. Mteinum.
Nice set up you've got there.
The speakers are not in the listening position,
there are too close to the back wall ?
Guy 13
+1
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That is a lovely room. Touches of modern, mid century modern, clean lines and coordinated white components.
I don't often see white OB speakers, cool implementation!
I am feeling that orange wallpaper too!
Indeed. Great room :thumb:
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Isn't the highly-reflective floor a problem?
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I have a similar floor which gives some nice bass bounce.
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The guy makes his first post here showing off his beautiful room and system and you're telling him "You're doing it wrong". :duh: :banghead:
mteinum, Your room is spectacular, and speakers/system look great!
Welcome to AC (and our disfunksunal family).
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:)
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The guy makes his first post here showing off his beautiful room and system and you're telling him "You're doing it wrong". :duh: :banghead:
mteinum, Your room is spectacular, and speakers/system look great!
Welcome to AC (and our disfunksunal family).
Where I come from it's called a question. Big deal. So touchy! Yeah, the room is fantastic, and the speakers look great, but this site is about, I thought, sound. What's the harm in asking about reflections off the floor? What, that's not a concern? That's not telling the OP he's "doing it wrong"---it's not telling him anything, it's asking him something. Not a legitimate question? I disagree.
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I wasn't talking about your post.
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@Guy 13
Thanks!
It sure helps dragging them out on the floor when playing music. It's the wife thing also... Right now they are 1.5 m out from the back wall. Great bass, very open sound.
@mcgsxr
Used to have the fullrange and tweeter in some white Dallas II horns. White is quite popular here in scandinavia when it comes to interior :)
@stlrman
Yes! 2x21mm MDF on the baffle / base. No problem with festool tracksaw / router.
@bdp24
A bigger bass trap (sofa) is ordered. I think there will be a larger carpet on the floor soon. It's not too bad right now, but it will never be studio quality in this room. One more thing, the picture lies ;) I have used a 11mm lens, it looks bigger than real life.
Here is a measurement of the bass section from listening position (with different x-over values on the FirstWatt B5)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5624/24085900076_984989973f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CGowXf)
Baffle 70cm wall, mic 550cm baffle / 103cm floor (https://flic.kr/p/CGowXf) by Morten Teinum (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mortenteinum/), on Flickr
Right and wrong. Well, I'm open for tips and tricks making the best out of it.
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Welcome to AC Morten! After looking at your pics, I can say if you were looking for audio nuts like yourself, you have come to the right place! :lol:
BTW, beautiful system and nice project.
Best,
Ed
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mteinum,
Very nicely done. :thumb: Welcome to AC.
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I wasn't talking about your post.
Oops---sorry Bob. Guess it was I who was touchy!
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Oops---sorry. Guess it was I who was touchy!
No worries Brother. :wink:
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(http://i.imgur.com/cTkWuMp.jpg) (http://linkwitzlab.com/LX521/LX521_4.htm)
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Cool implementation of the woofer bridge!
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yes nice to see
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My open baffle planar hybrid speaker. GR-Research did the baffle design ideas. Got the drivers moded BG NEO3PDR and 2x12 servo subs from GR-Research and BG NEO10's from Parts-Express before BG was sold.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=133022)
I believe lowtech asked about frequency response plots of the NEO3/NEO10 section of the open baffle speakers. Here is a Pocket CLIO response plot of the bandpass filter and high pass filters used on the dspMusik digital crossover for the planars in the side wing open baffle.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140865)
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hello :)
test , bad design :oops:
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/373488Capturedcran20160422034038.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=373488Capturedcran20160422034038.png)
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This is my latest project:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140848)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140847)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140846)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141807)
Best,
Ed
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Really sharp Ed. I'm sure you're enjoying that combo. Nice touch creating a pocket for the Wedgie to sit in.
Mike
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Thanks Mike. I thought the pocket added a nice finished look, but it does present an additional challenge if say I wanted to incorporate another speaker from 200 Hz and up while using these bass units. I am anxious to read whether or not I should "upgrade" my Wedgies, nudge nudge hint hint :wink:.
Best,
Ed
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Thanks Mike. I thought the pocket added a nice finished look, but it does present an additional challenge if say I wanted to incorporate another speaker from 200 Hz and up while using these bass units. I am anxious to read whether or not I should "upgrade" my Wedgies, nudge nudge hint hint :wink:.
Best,
Ed
Ed,
It'll be later this summer before I get my pair of NX-Otica MTM's built out. Looks like I need to replace a couple of HX300 amps I buggered up trying to add the jumper that by-passes the OB circuit and most likely buy a new table saw before I can spent the money on the NQ drivers and crossover components.
I realized pretty quick that the NX-Oticas are not going to fit on top of the wedge cabinets I built for the Wedgies. I have to decide whether to build wedge shaped cabinets or an H-Frame for them. Since the Oticas are quite a bit wider than the Wedgies, they might not look so out of place on top of an H-Frame, especially if I don't put an overhang on the top.
Who knows. MDF is pretty cheap, I might build a pair of each then decide.
Mike
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Ed - those are very nice! Impressive work
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Nice Job Ed, well done ......? :thumb:
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As usual, beautiful workmanship......hats off to you my friend.
They look stunning....I want some..... :thumb:
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Ed, how do they compare (Sound wise) to your V1 ????
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Ed,
It'll be later this summer before I get my pair of NX-Otica MTM's built out. Looks like I need to replace a couple of HX300 amps I buggered up trying to add the jumper that by-passes the OB circuit and most likely buy a new table saw before I can spent the money on the NQ drivers and crossover components.
I realized pretty quick that the NX-Oticas are not going to fit on top of the wedge cabinets I built for the Wedgies. I have to decide whether to build wedge shaped cabinets or an H-Frame for them. Since the Oticas are quite a bit wider than the Wedgies, they might not look so out of place on top of an H-Frame, especially if I don't put an overhang on the top.
Who knows. MDF is pretty cheap, I might build a pair of each then decide.
Mike
Thanks Mike, same here regarding the bass units, although I do have a plan! Sucks regarding the amps, kind of puts a damper on things. I would love to get an opinion on the wedgie vs the top half of the NX Otticas, but I think that will have to come from one of us!
Ed - those are very nice! Impressive work
Nice Job Ed, well done ......? :thumb:
Thanks guys, much appreciated.
As usual, beautiful workmanship......hats off to you my friend.
They look stunning....I want some..... :thumb:
Thanks Perry. I know you wanted to hear these, it appears you may get the opportunity with the Neo drivers becoming available again. Hope all is well.
Ed, how do they compare (Sound wise) to your V1 ????
Hey Guy, the V1 was a great speaker for me, I really loved it. The wedgie dives deeper into the track, I hear more detail, and the soundstage Is fantastic! The jury is out regarding the "H" frame vs. the "U" frame wedge, it will take additional listening and tweaking the setup before I will know for certain.
Best,
Ed
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:)
hello ,
my new DIY OB test .
bass : 12" ERS TS 30/300 fs 44,5 Hz QTS 1,10 (94 db)
medium 12" ERS TS 30/600pro fs 55 Hz QTS 0,9 (95 db)
compression 1" (800/20000 // 105 db)
crossover 1000/5000 Hz
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/751008Capturedcran20160816013411.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=751008Capturedcran20160816013411.png)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/172889Capturedcran20160814211607.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=172889Capturedcran20160814211607.png)
test sound :
http://www.sendbox.fr/9fb6c34f260a79f5/plan_TS30300+TS30600pro.flac (http://www.sendbox.fr/9fb6c34f260a79f5/plan_TS30300+TS30600pro.flac)
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:)
hello ,
my new DIY OB test .
bass : 12" ERS TS 30/300 fs 44,5 Hz QTS 1,10 (94 db)
medium 12" ERS TS 30/600pro fs 55 Hz QTS 0,9 (95 db)
compression 1" (800/20000 // 105 db)
crossover 1000/5000 Hz
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/751008Capturedcran20160816013411.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=751008Capturedcran20160816013411.png)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/172889Capturedcran20160814211607.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=172889Capturedcran20160814211607.png)
test sound :
http://www.sendbox.fr/9fb6c34f260a79f5/plan_TS30300+TS30600pro.flac (http://www.sendbox.fr/9fb6c34f260a79f5/plan_TS30300+TS30600pro.flac)
gils mate,you really know how to make the best OB,congrats, :thumb:
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gils mate,you really know how to make the best OB,congrats, :thumb:
:thumb:
yeah !!
it's very best power full speakers !!
https://youtu.be/8boWa0Z5B4o
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:thumb:
yeah !!
it's very best power full speakers !!
https://youtu.be/8boWa0Z5B4o
gils honestly i like your ob speakers mate,since your an ob expert,can you share some of your tech especially on the low end freq (ob woofer), you can pm me if you want,be as technical as you wish..no problemo!
George
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hello G Georgopoulos :)
in french :
le problème majeur des systèmes OB est le court circuit acoustique dans les basses fréquences, le système U-FRAME, V-FRAME ou H-Frame peut régler ce problème en parti, l'autre problème est la réverbération calamiteuse de l'onde sonore arrière , il faut bien choisir ses haut parleurs, je considère un système OB comme HIFI à part entière comme les systèmes clos ou bass reflex pour reproduire l'onde sonore du plus bas au plus haut du spectre sonore, le reste n'est que mauvaise enceinte acoustique .
l'aspect esthétique et effet spatial semble le principal soucis des utilisateurs de ce système, ce qui est bien regrettable qui ne sont pas des enceintes HIFI, j'ai écouté beaucoup d'enceinte OB et le son est catastrophique et choisir n'importe quel type de haut parleur non adapté à ce système nous donne ce résultat .
le choix d'un haut parleur à QTS élevé est primordial pour ce système , une membrane qui bouge frénétiquement ne donne aucun résultat et à l'inverse, des haut parleurs à membrane rigide vous donnera que du médium, les petits diamètres sont à proscrire pour un bon rendu dans le grave .
avec mon système , j'ai un large éventail de choix musical à fort gain comme à faible gain, avec un amplificateur audio de 50 w, je peux animer une soirée dansante comme une écoute spirituel de musique classique :)
on peut améliorer beaucoup de paramètre et raccorder les bandes octave en remettant les hauts parleurs en phase avec un système bi-amplification et un DCX , RePhase est un très bon soft pour cet exercice, je n'en suis pas encore là .
pour l'instant , je n'ai qu'une seule enceinte test .
google translate :
the major problem of OB systems is the acoustic short circuit in the low frequencies, the U-FRAME system, V-FRAME or H-Frame can solve this problem by party, the other problem is the disastrous reverb sound wave back it must choose its speakers, I see an OB HIFI system as full as closed systems or bass reflex to reproduce the sound wave from the lowest to the highest of the sound spectrum, the rest is poor pregnant acoustic .
aesthetics and spatial effect seems the main concerns of the users of this system, which is very regrettable that are not HIFI speaker, I listened to a lot of OB enclosure and the sound is catastrophic and choose any type speaker not suitable for this system gives us this result.
choosing a high QTS speakerphone is essential for this system, a membrane that moves frantically no result and conversely, from speakers to give you that rigid membrane of the medium, small diameters are not recommended for good in bass.
with my system, I have a wide range of musical choices as high gain low gain, with an audio amplifier 50 w I can animate a dance as a spiritual listening to classical music :)
can improve many parameters and connect octave bands by giving the speakers in phase with a bi-amplification system and DCX, RePhase is a great app for this exercise, I'm not there yet.
for now, I have only one speaker test.
http://petoindominique.fr/php/lienhp.php
http://www.sendbox.fr/c0894d1866cde49d~s
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hello G Georgopoulos :)
in french :
le problème majeur des systèmes OB est le court circuit acoustique dans les basses fréquences, le système U-FRAME, V-FRAME ou H-Frame peut régler ce problème en parti, l'autre problème est la réverbération calamiteuse de l'onde sonore arrière , il faut bien choisir ses haut parleurs, je considère un système OB comme HIFI à part entière comme les systèmes clos ou bass reflex pour reproduire l'onde sonore du plus bas au plus haut du spectre sonore, le reste n'est que mauvaise enceinte acoustique .
l'aspect esthétique et effet spatial semble le principal soucis des utilisateurs de ce système, ce qui est bien regrettable qui ne sont pas des enceintes HIFI, j'ai écouté beaucoup d'enceinte OB et le son est catastrophique et choisir n'importe quel type de haut parleur non adapté à ce système nous donne ce résultat .
le choix d'un haut parleur à QTS élevé est primordial pour ce système , une membrane qui bouge frénétiquement ne donne aucun résultat et à l'inverse, des haut parleurs à membrane rigide vous donnera que du médium, les petits diamètres sont à proscrire pour un bon rendu dans le grave .
avec mon système , j'ai un large éventail de choix musical à fort gain comme à faible gain, avec un amplificateur audio de 50 w, je peux animer une soirée dansante comme une écoute spirituel de musique classique :)
on peut améliorer beaucoup de paramètre et raccorder les bandes octave en remettant les hauts parleurs en phase avec un système bi-amplification et un DCX , RePhase est un très bon soft pour cet exercice, je n'en suis pas encore là .
pour l'instant , je n'ai qu'une seule enceinte test .
google translate :
the major problem of OB systems is the acoustic short circuit in the low frequencies, the U-FRAME system, V-FRAME or H-Frame can solve this problem by party, the other problem is the disastrous reverb sound wave back it must choose its speakers, I see an OB HIFI system as full as closed systems or bass reflex to reproduce the sound wave from the lowest to the highest of the sound spectrum, the rest is poor pregnant acoustic .
aesthetics and spatial effect seems the main concerns of the users of this system, which is very regrettable that are not HIFI speaker, I listened to a lot of OB enclosure and the sound is catastrophic and choose any type speaker not suitable for this system gives us this result.
choosing a high QTS speakerphone is essential for this system, a membrane that moves frantically no result and conversely, from speakers to give you that rigid membrane of the medium, small diameters are not recommended for good in bass.
with my system, I have a wide range of musical choices as high gain low gain, with an audio amplifier 50 w I can animate a dance as a spiritual listening to classical music :)
can improve many parameters and connect octave bands by giving the speakers in phase with a bi-amplification system and DCX, RePhase is a great app for this exercise, I'm not there yet.
for now, I have only one speaker test.
http://petoindominique.fr/php/lienhp.php
http://www.sendbox.fr/c0894d1866cde49d~s
Ca fait toujours plaisir de lire du Français.
Je suis un petit cousin du Québec expatrié sur la planète Vietnam.
Votre '' topic '' est très intéressant.
Merci.
Guy Leduc
Guy 13
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Ca fait toujours plaisir de lire du Français.
Je suis un petit cousin du Québec expatrié sur la planète Vietnam.
Votre '' topic '' est très intéressant.
Merci.
Guy Leduc
Guy 13
Bonjour Guy 13 ,
je suis vos sujets assez souvent et ne manque pas d'intérêt, merci .
De par votre speudo "Guy 13" je pourrais penser que vous êtes de Marseille "13" est le numéro de département :) , en Europe, le système plan n'a pas trop de succès, il existe beaucoup plus d'utilisateur chez vous et cela fait plaisir d'où mon inscription sur ce forum, considérant ce système HIFI à part entière, il mérite toute notre attention, les fabricants de haut parleurs tardent quand même à nous délivrer du bon matériel prévu pour nos enceintes et c'est bien dommage, en tombant par hasard sur ces haut parleur bon marché Technysound (Europsonic) avec des valeurs QTS élevés idéal pour ce système m'a donné envie de plonger dans cet univers des enceintes sans fond ! l'esthétique m'importe peu, je recherches la qualité de son optimum digne d'un concert acoustique, étant possesseur de JBL 4311B, cela vous rend exigent sur la qualité audio :) , j'avoue que le sytème plan est quand même passionnant et occupe souvent mes soirées voir mes nuits ! :green:
En tout cas merci de m'avoir répondu en français , vous maitrisez très bien la langue de Molière ! :thumb:
Hello Guy 13
I am your subjects and quite often no lack of interest, thank you.
By your speudo "Guy 13" I might think you're in Marseille "13" is the department :) number, in Europe, the plan system was not too successful, there is much more user home and it's nice where I registered on this forum, Whereas HIFI system in itself, it deserves our attention, speaker manufacturers still slow to deliver us good equipment provided for our speakers and this is shame in stumbling upon these top cheap speaker Technysound (Europsonic) with QTS high values for this ideal system made me want to dive into this world of bottomless pregnant! aesthetics matter to me, I research the optimum sound quality worthy of an acoustic concert, being owner of JBL 4311B, it makes you require on :) audio quality, I admit that the plan sytem is still exciting and often occupy my evenings see my nights! : Green:
Anyway thank you for responding in French, you speak very well the language of Molière! :Thumb:
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hello G Georgopoulos :)
in french :
le problème majeur des systèmes OB est le court circuit acoustique dans les basses fréquences, le système U-FRAME, V-FRAME ou H-Frame peut régler ce problème en parti, l'autre problème est la réverbération calamiteuse de l'onde sonore arrière , il faut bien choisir ses haut parleurs, je considère un système OB comme HIFI à part entière comme les systèmes clos ou bass reflex pour reproduire l'onde sonore du plus bas au plus haut du spectre sonore, le reste n'est que mauvaise enceinte acoustique .
l'aspect esthétique et effet spatial semble le principal soucis des utilisateurs de ce système, ce qui est bien regrettable qui ne sont pas des enceintes HIFI, j'ai écouté beaucoup d'enceinte OB et le son est catastrophique et choisir n'importe quel type de haut parleur non adapté à ce système nous donne ce résultat .
le choix d'un haut parleur à QTS élevé est primordial pour ce système , une membrane qui bouge frénétiquement ne donne aucun résultat et à l'inverse, des haut parleurs à membrane rigide vous donnera que du médium, les petits diamètres sont à proscrire pour un bon rendu dans le grave .
avec mon système , j'ai un large éventail de choix musical à fort gain comme à faible gain, avec un amplificateur audio de 50 w, je peux animer une soirée dansante comme une écoute spirituel de musique classique :)
on peut améliorer beaucoup de paramètre et raccorder les bandes octave en remettant les hauts parleurs en phase avec un système bi-amplification et un DCX , RePhase est un très bon soft pour cet exercice, je n'en suis pas encore là .
pour l'instant , je n'ai qu'une seule enceinte test .
google translate :
the major problem of OB systems is the acoustic short circuit in the low frequencies, the U-FRAME system, V-FRAME or H-Frame can solve this problem by party, the other problem is the disastrous reverb sound wave back it must choose its speakers, I see an OB HIFI system as full as closed systems or bass reflex to reproduce the sound wave from the lowest to the highest of the sound spectrum, the rest is poor pregnant acoustic .
aesthetics and spatial effect seems the main concerns of the users of this system, which is very regrettable that are not HIFI speaker, I listened to a lot of OB enclosure and the sound is catastrophic and choose any type speaker not suitable for this system gives us this result.
choosing a high QTS speakerphone is essential for this system, a membrane that moves frantically no result and conversely, from speakers to give you that rigid membrane of the medium, small diameters are not recommended for good in bass.
with my system, I have a wide range of musical choices as high gain low gain, with an audio amplifier 50 w I can animate a dance as a spiritual listening to classical music :)
can improve many parameters and connect octave bands by giving the speakers in phase with a bi-amplification system and DCX, RePhase is a great app for this exercise, I'm not there yet.
for now, I have only one speaker test.
http://petoindominique.fr/php/lienhp.php
http://www.sendbox.fr/c0894d1866cde49d~s
Bonjour Mr gils
yes i agree with you,and thank you for sharing with me,ob is not known for big bass,but as you
have described Hframe and a large cone with low Frs works better with ob
thank you so much
George
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Bonjour Mr gils
yes i agree with you,and thank you for sharing with me,ob is not known for big bass,but as you
have described Hframe and a large cone with low Frs works better with ob
thank you so much
George
:)
hello ,
les hauts parleur à QTS faible < 0,7 préfèrerons système H-FRAME ou V-Frame pour les graves , and QTS > 0,7 préfèrerons U-Frame or FLAT-FRAME
QTS is 1,04 fs 44 Hz // 94 db // 150 W 8 Ohms continue (bass) ( 105 110 db max)
QTS is 0,9 fs 55 Hz // 95 db // 300 W 8 Ohms continue (medium) ( 110 125 db max) crossover 1000/5000 + resistor 5 Ohms and self and capacitor 14 μF
compression 105 db 60 w crossover resistor 10 Ohms capacitor 2 μF
listen , original and OB :)
http://www.sendbox.fr/2c8cb8893ba41b2c/Archive.zip (http://www.sendbox.fr/2c8cb8893ba41b2c/Archive.zip)
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Hi gils
to discuss these pm me
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with H baffle you gain some Hz but lose some db
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:)
hello,
miking micro to estimate the sound spectrum of my plan with the reverberation of the room :)
it is placed at 1 m at an angle with foam carpet behind :)
https://youtu.be/Ye7N5RmONx0
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:duh: :thumb:
my new system test, open baffe / bass reflex 43 Hz, is beautiful sound !!
BP 35 Hz at 19 Khz // 30 Hz = 95 db and 35 Hz = 97 db // of 50 Hz at 160 Hz = 100 db :o and 200 Hz at 18 Khz at 95 +/- 2 db :duh:
ces mesures ont été faites avec un sonomètre de précision en db courbe pondération C , amplificateur réglé à 2,83 V/m
These measurements were made with a precision sound in db weighting curve C amplifier set to 2.83V
instrument tested "Youtube" Harpe/ Organ/ piano / Contrebasse / Bass guitar and drum :)
:thumb:
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/957979Capturedcran20161024011354.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=957979Capturedcran20161024011354.png)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/434597Capturedcran20161024011108.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=434597Capturedcran20161024011108.png)
http://www.sendbox.fr/f284d00d666cded2/test.mp3 (http://www.sendbox.fr/f284d00d666cded2/test.mp3)
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Gils, does this sound better in every way than your last design?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121548.msg1550133#msg1550133
I thought the sound sample you supplied of that speaker was very good indeed, especially since you recorded it with your camcorder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8boWa0Z5B4o&feature=youtu.be
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:duh: :thumb:
my new system test, open baffe / bass reflex 43 Hz, is beautiful sound !!
BP 35 Hz at 19 Khz // 30 Hz = 95 db and 35 Hz = 97 db // of 50 Hz at 160 Hz = 100 db :o and 200 Hz at 18 Khz at 95 +/- 2 db :duh:
looks like you have plenty of bass now... :green:
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Gils, does this sound better in every way than your last design?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121548.msg1550133#msg1550133
I thought the sound sample you supplied of that speaker was very good indeed, especially since you recorded it with your camcorder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8boWa0Z5B4o&feature=youtu.be
hello Russel, :)
oui, j'ai fait plusieurs design pour obtenir le meilleur registre dans grave, il s'avère que le positionnement de l'enceinte est déterminant, dans mon sous-sol, le rendu du grave était correct mais dans mon séjour, il était fortement atténué en dessous de 60 Hz, problème de room gain, ensuite le registre grave en dessous de 45 Hz était difficile à obtenir, en combinant les deux systèmes open baffle bas médium plan et le grave en bass reflex permet de descendre dans le grave dans les 30 Hz à un niveau assez élevé tout en gardant le spectre clair et large du bas médium monté en open baffle, ceci permet un grand confort d'écoute quel que soit la position de l'enceinte à fort niveau ou faible niveau, j'essaierais de produire une bande audio la plus réaliste possible de meilleur qualité possible pour partager le rendu même si la qualité sonore de la prise son n'est pas très bonne.
pour avoir écouter le système "Trio" il faut reconnaitre que ça manque cruellement de grave, certain instrument comme l'orgue et la contre basse avec des notes très basse à 30 Hz et moins pour l'orgue sont réduite au silence et c'est bien dommage, le fait d'accorder l'ensemble pour descendre encore plus bas dans le registre grave n'enlève rien à la qualité de son typique du système open baffle.
yes, I have made several design for the best record in serious, it turns out that the positioning of the speaker is critical, in my basement, rendering the grave was ok but in my experience, it was highly reduced below 60 Hz, room gain problem, then the bass below 45 Hz was difficult to obtain, by combining both open system baffle low level midrange and serious bass reflex drills down into the grave in 30 Hz at a fairly high while keeping the clear and broad spectrum level of the lower midrange mounted in open baffle, this allows listening comfort regardless of the position of the speaker at high level or low level, I'd try to produce the most realistic audio tape can share best possible quality for rendering even if the sound quality of the sound outlet is not very good.
listen for the system "Trio" we must recognize that it is sorely lacking in serious, some instrument like the organ and against low with very low ratings at 30 Hz and less for the organ are silenced and that's pity, the granting of all to fall further in the lower register does not detract from the quality of its typical open baffle system.
https://youtu.be/GBU4j2ezCQg
cdt.gils
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looks like you have plenty of bass now... :green:
Hello G Georgopoulos :)
oui, bien meilleur dans le registre, à la base, ce sont des haut parleur bon marché de sonorisation ( 55 € + 62 € + 25 €) de puissance confortable ( 300 w / 600 w / 65 w) avec un rendement assez élevé, sans se ruiner nous pouvons obtenir de très bon résultats en combinant les 2 systèmes, reste pas moins que ce sont des HP à faible déplacement ( xmax=4 mm) qui permet d'avoir un taux de distorsion très faible à niveau élevé, ce qui conforte la qualité audio dans les montés subite du niveau sonore suivant certaines oeuvres musicales ( Boléro de Ravel) :)
yyes, much better in the register at the base, they are speaker cheap PA (€ 55 + € 62 + € 25) for comfortable power (300 W / 600 W / 65 W) with a relatively high yield, without breaking the bank we can get very good results by combining the two systems remains that these are HP low-displacement (xmax = 4 mm) which allows for a very low distortion at high level, which consolidates audio quality in sudden mounted sound level according to certain musical works (Ravel Bolero) :)
cdt.gils
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Hello G Georgopoulos :)
oui, bien meilleur dans le registre, à la base, ce sont des haut parleur bon marché de sonorisation ( 55 € + 62 € + 25 €) de puissance confortable ( 300 w / 600 w / 65 w) avec un rendement assez élevé, sans se ruiner nous pouvons obtenir de très bon résultats en combinant les 2 systèmes, reste pas moins que ce sont des HP à faible déplacement ( xmax=4 mm) qui permet d'avoir un taux de distorsion très faible à niveau élevé, ce qui conforte la qualité audio dans les montés subite du niveau sonore suivant certaines oeuvres musicales ( Boléro de Ravel) :)
by combining the two systems remains that these are HP low-displacement (xmax = 4 mm) which allows for a very low distortion at high level,
cdt.gils
I was interested in pure ob bass,combining the two has already been done,if you're gonna build a box for bass you might as well incorporate the other drivers in it
cheers
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hello Russel, :)
pour avoir écouter le système "Trio" il faut reconnaitre que ça manque cruellement de grave, certain instrument comme l'orgue et la contre basse avec des notes très basse à 30 Hz et moins pour l'orgue sont réduite au silence et c'est bien dommage, le fait d'accorder l'ensemble pour descendre encore plus bas dans le registre grave n'enlève rien à la qualité de son typique du système open baffle.
cdt.gils
Bonjour Gils
De quel systèmet "Trio" fais tu allusion au PAP ?
Je découvre tes réalisations . Très sympa , ça sonne plutôt bien.
Quel est le reste de ton sytème?
Cdt
JC
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:)
hello 2counos,
the system is very simple, a PC=> sound card of PC => Ampli 2xTDA 7294 ( 2x50w)=> filter 3 ways=> DIY Technysound TS-30/600pro bass//TS-30/300 medium BR/OB + compression 105 db tweeter
Power: http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/ab/d6/fa/99/84/36/49/ee/CD00000017.pdf/files/CD00000017.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00000017.pdf
TRIO 15 Pure project :thumb:
https://youtu.be/gmaNWEN3ps4
no bass :(
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hello Gils
Merci pour la réponse.
Petite précision sur la filtration, active ou passive ?
Merci d'avance
JC
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hello 2counos,
it's passive filter :D
:thumb:
https://youtu.be/s9CtBb-98Rc
https://youtu.be/2jjN5cyceEY
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Hello Gils
Les OB me plaisent beaucoup.
Ta dernière version me semble bien meilleur niveau grave, très musicale.
Hélas je n'ai aucune connaissance pour réaliser ce type de produit.
Je pensais un moment m'orienter sur des PAP Trio, mais le grave n'est pas à la hauteur finalement.
Peut être serais tu d'accord pour m'apporter ton aide (filtre, plans) pour me lancer dans l'aventure ?
Thanks
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Bonjour,
oui, quand on aime la musique et les instruments, on ne pas tricher et se rabattre sur des systèmes à inconvénient, il faut quelques références, assister à des concerts acoustiques pour en peser le réel de la reproduction sonore, pourtant mes prises de son en vidéo sont très loin de ce que je peux entendre chez moi, tout au plus le timbre.
Le plus important est le choix des HP, QTS élevé pour l'OB, moyen rendement ou au haut rendement seront privilégiés, éviter les HP bas rendement à membranes à grand déplacement synonyme de distorsion et de grave "pot d'échappement" à éviter, prendre des HP à Xmax moyen ou faible, les miens sont à Xmax=4 mm , ce sont des HP de sono à l'origine.
le grave que j'utilise a un à QTS assez élevé pour l'utilisation en BR, QTS à 0,8, normalement entre 0,4 et 0,5, mais ce HP a une suspension membrane très rigide avec un gros moteur , aimant de 180 mm et une bobine de 4" (10 cm) avec une sensibilité de 95 db pour un FS de 55 Hz et capable de 125 db à 300 W, largement suffisant pour chez soi.
le bas médium monté en OB a un QTS de 1,05 de sensibilité de 93 db capable de 105 db à 150 w mais il rayonne avant et arrière qui fait monter le niveau sonore dans la pièce donc il est conseillait d'avoir un grave à sensibilité supérieur .
l'Orgue est un instrument difficile à reproduire chez soi tant sa BP est large (de 16 Hz à 16 Khz) avec un niveau sonore de 120 db, il faut du lourd pour le reproduire dans de bonne conditions.
:D
https://youtu.be/x9D3NuZZ4l0
pour le filtre et la compression, du matos standard fera l'affaire, ensuite tout est améliorable avec de l'électronique, correction d'amplitude, phase, filtre actif etc..
PS: j'ai reçu une de paire de micro C2 Behringer , j'espère partagé un meilleur rendu sonore à l'avenir ;)
Hello,
yes, when you love the music and the instruments, we do not cheat and fall back on drawback systems, it takes a few references, attend acoustic concerts to weigh the actual sound reproduction, yet my shots sound video are very far from what I can hear at home, at most the stamp.
The most important is the choice of HP, high QTS for the OB average yield or high yield will be favored, avoiding HP low yield membranes synonymous large displacement distortion and serious "muffler" to avoid, HP to take Xmax medium or low, mine are to Xmax = 4 mm, are HP PA originally.
the grave that I use has a QTS high enough for use in BR, QTS 0.8, typically between 0.4 and 0.5, but HP has a very rigid membrane suspension with a big engine, magnet 180 mm and a coil 4 "(10 cm) with a sensitivity of 95 dB for an FS of 55 Hz and capable of 125 dB at 300 W, more than enough for home.
the lower midrange mounted OB has a 1.05 QTS sensitivity of 93 db capable of 105 db at 150 w but radiates front and rear that raises the noise level in the room so it is advised to have a grave to higher sensitivity.
Organ is a difficult instrument to reproduce at home as his BP is wide (from 16 Hz to 16 kHz) with a noise level of 120 dB, it takes heavy to reproduce it in good conditions.
for the filter and compression, standard gear will do, then everything is improvable with electronics, amplitude correction, phase, crossover etc ..
PS: I received a pair of micro Behringer C2, I hope shared sound better in the future;)
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Hi..finally gotten to build my first OB using info i picked up here and there
Basically
Alpair 12p
2 x Beta 15A
per side
just used simple high/low pass filter. They sound spectacular i might add...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153412)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153410)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153411)
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Very nice setup. Looks great!
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I choose to build the W-Frame OB for reduced height and appearance.
I doubled 3/4" maple ply on the sides per Danny's suggestion.
I added Magnepan light fabric to unify the appearance.
Still need to build european frameless doors.
Frameless cabinet is over 26" deep and has a recessed back for wire storage and ventilation.
LG OLED 65B6P is on backorder
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=154649)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=154650)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153411)
Superb room, very suited to OB speakers.
Congratulations
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Jordan Eikona 2 plus slot loaded bass driver in compact 20" baffle. Purpose built all passive crossover with low frequency equalization, BSC, and notch filter on the low frequency driver only.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=154816)
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Ouch equalization, BSC, and notch filter all in one speaker is too much for me.
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On the helper woofer only. The full range driver has no crossover.
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There is any advantage on the usual Alpha or Beta?
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By slot loading the woofer, the front & rear waves become less symmetrical as frequencies rise. This affects cancellation and, at least in my design, is an integral part of the woofer's crossover.
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Looks interesting, I remembered Karlsonator.
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I know you guys are anti-crossover for your full range drivers, but I have yet to measure one that didn't need a corrective circuit for either baffle step loss, a rising response, or notching out peaks up top. And those problems typically present a far worse response and listening experience any any effects that the filters may have, especially when using high quality parts.
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I know you guys are anti-crossover for your full range drivers, but I have yet to measure one that didn't need a corrective circuit for either baffle step loss, a rising response, or notching out peaks up top. And those problems typically present a far worse response and listening experience any any effects that the filters may have, especially when using high quality parts.
+1 :thumb:
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Can I play too? Here's my OB Serenity Acoustics Super 7's using planar magnetic mids and tweeters with dual GR Research OB Servo subs as the bass section. Best I've heard outside of OB line array speakers:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122041)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122043)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122042)
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Tyson,
I assume all pics are before changing all the xover parts and wiring. Please share pic of "after".
You really need to get the 12 gauge Jantzen wax foil coil for the midrange....much better than 14 gauge.
Try turning around the rear facing woof so they are both facing forward. The guy with three woofs said just changing the one out of three was noticeably better....one out of two would make more difference.
Try some small felt pieces right overlapping the tweeters hard outside edges if you listen with grill off.
Clarity cap CMR time?
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:)
hello,
My new system BR/openbaffle U-Frame
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/438835Capture5.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=438835Capture5.png)
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/264041Capture6.png) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=264041Capture6.png)
no spam :)
http://www.partage-fichiers.com/upload/49wgnapn
:thumb:
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My H-frames now feature some real sleepers, the 12" Zenith 49CZ802 alnico drivers pulled from an old tube console circa 1958. Driven straight from a 2a3 SET amp there's nothing in the signal path other than a single cap on the Japanese 40-1310A Realistic tweeters ( a very different animal from the Radio Shack versions from Korea and China ).
Thankfully I happened upon the "Glow in the Dark" blog otherwise the Zeniths would still be collecting dust in my garage.
These big wide band drivers are beyond amazing and bring more enjoyment than the 1808's and the 12LTA's used with the same H-frames. It's hard for me to admit it but the Lowthers are now playing second fiddle to the geriatric Zeniths.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158995)
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The Zeniths over H-frame Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158997)
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Here's a close up of the 60 year old ribbed cone Zeniths.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158998)
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The Zeniths over H-frame Alphas
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158997)
Nice Alnicos, how is the sound from this Zenith?
Have try it in a Bass Reflex?
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I googled the Zenith drivers and found them on a Chinese (!) site for $30 and $10 shipping!
http://www.gymykuufc.xyz/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2471
Did some looking into it and they seem legit, even though their main activity is women's fashion.
I bought the pair—wish me luck!
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Russell, it's a good thing you did as I would have. A second pair as a back up makes sense. Those are the same as mine I just painted the gasket.
These puppies are the real deal. Just as smooth and refined as the 1808's but with a much greater and enveloping sound stage. The 49CZ has a beautiful tone and is no doubt voiced for flea watt tube amps.
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Here's what "Glow in the Dark" says about the Zeniths.
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/zenith-49cz852.html
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Now I'm really excited! Thanks for the link. It's nice to experiment with almost zero money at stake.
I just hope mine are properly functioning.
Yours look like new, Poltrygeist—not just the frame and gasket, but the cone. Did you do anything to 'refresh' the cones on yours?
By the way, that Chinese site has an unusual collection of vintage gear for sale, like tubes and old receivers and such:
http://www.gymykuufc.xyz/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_74
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I wiped the cones down with a a Mr Clean Magic Eraser and painted the gaskets flat black. That's all.
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I googled the Zenith drivers and found them on a Chinese (!) site for $30 and $10 shipping!
http://www.gymykuufc.xyz/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2471
Did some looking into it and they seem legit, even though their main activity is women's fashion.
I bought the pair—wish me luck!
I hope that site is legit, they are still available to buy one week after your post!
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Around 2008 I have see in this site some BASF cut tape red box and it yet avaliable today>
http://www.gymykuufc.xyz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=60_74&products_id=2494
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I hope that site is legit, they are still available to buy one week after your post!
Hmmmm… I'll report back!
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A decade of Evolution....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161499)
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A decade of Evolution....
Nice image, thanks for posting.
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Hmmmm… I'll report back!
Any news on the Zenith?
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Any news on the Zenith?
Funny you should ask. I sent them an email 8 days ago querying my order, but have had no reply to that yet. Just now I saw on the VISA statement that they processed the order on Mar 11 and I sent them another email query.
I see what look to be the same pair of Zenith drivers advertized on their site, but allow for the fact they may be slow modifying their page.
It's a little too early to panic; 5 weeks is not unthinkable for large-ish boxes coming from China. I'll let you know!
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Their IP is from US but their ABOUT say no country, city or address.
http://www.gymykuufc.xyz/index.php?main_page=about_us&zenid=d5boge3lun2e0kqo2qfrnnd1n2
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This is a work in progress. The woofers are GR-Reseach OB/W 12". The mid/tweet section is something I cooked up from a wild imagination and a distinct lack of knowledge.
The woofers from Parts Express & tweeters from China. I used XSim to design my tweeter based on MFR specs on the woofer and NEO 8 specs which is similar to the tweeters. The good news is the tweeters have a much gentler rise starting at 8khz.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161631)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161632)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161633)
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I've gone through several iterations over the years... Here's some pics of most of them.
First try:
(http://n4rp.com/images/img_0212.jpg)
More pics at http://n4rp.com/dipoles.html I also did a version of this with Altec 604Gs on the baffle, but I can't find any pics.
Next step:
(https://i0.wp.com/i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/sthull/CAF2012/CT6A3715a.jpg)
Dayton PS220-8 on a JEL style baffle. Not my woodwork ;)
Another step forward:
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/2013CAF%203%20(DIY).jpg)
A major step in the right direction:
(http://www.dcaudiodiy.com/images/roscoe_ob-2.jpg)
With a build thread here: http://dcaudiodiy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=566
Which evolved into this:
(http://www.dcaudiodiy.com/images/roscoe_ob-4.jpg)
And then:
(http://www.dcaudiodiy.com/images/tannoy-ob01.jpg)
And, as of last night:
(http://www.dcaudiodiy.com/images/slob-10.JPG)
with some more information available on the second page of this thread: http://dcaudiodiy.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=819
Roscoe
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I remember threads talking about the validity of most of those. Very cool! :thumb:
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Roscoe great work!
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Great OBs Roscoe, thanks for posting.
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A decade of Evolution....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161499)
What drivers did you used?
Thank you!
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What drivers did you used?
Thank you!
A lot of really big ones, a few medium sized ones, and a couple itty bitty ones.
Hope that helps! :thumb:
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I googled the Zenith drivers and found them on a Chinese (!) site for $30 and $10 shipping!
http://www.gymykuufc.xyz/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2471
Did some looking into it and they seem legit, even though their main activity is women's fashion.
I bought the pair—wish me luck!
An update:
Yup, it was a scam. My account was debited immediately, but the goods never arrived and now the site appears either to be down or operating with a different identity. Luckily I lost "only" $44 CAD. I'm still glad I found out about these drivers and will pursue them from more legit sources.
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These are my new OB Speakers. They are GR-Research NX-Otica monitors mated with GR-Research/Rythmik dual 12" H-Frame OB subs.
The NX-Otica monitors use the Neo3 PDR tweeter in an open back configuration and GR-Research M165NQ woofers. The NQ woofers were designed for open baffle use.
The subs use two of the GR-Research SW-12-08FR woofers and a Rythmik A370PEQ3 amp each.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163604)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164139)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164134)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164135)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164136)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164137)
The pictures are right side up on my computer. I don't know why some like to turn sideways when I post here :scratch:
Mike
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The pictures are right side up on my computer. I don't know why some like to turn sideways when I post here :scratch:
Mike
Whatever software you're using to view them at home is probably smart enough to read the rotation meta-info in the jpg and auto-rotate it. If you edit and re-save the pics in the correct orientation before you post them that MAY fix the problem.
Roscoe
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The pictures are right side up on my computer. I don't know why some like to turn sideways when I post here :scratch:
I dont know how some members get it, it never happened to me.
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Those turned out great Mike, very nice!
Best,
Ed
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163617)
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Whatever software you're using to view them at home is probably smart enough to read the rotation meta-info in the jpg and auto-rotate it. If you edit and re-save the pics in the correct orientation before you post them that MAY fix the problem.
Roscoe
Roscoe,
I use Photo Shop. The pictures that are laying down are ones I took with the camera held vertical. However, when I edit and save them in Photo Shop the orientation I'm seeing is correct. So not sure how to make it come out right here.
Ed,
Thanks. You should be getting close to posting pics of yours aye?
Mike
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163617)
Ron,
Your full size NX-Oticas look great.
Mike
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Ron,
Your full size NX-Oticas look great.
Mike
Thanks Mike!
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Roscoe,
I use Photo Shop. The pictures that are laying down are ones I took with the camera held vertical. However, when I edit and save them in Photo Shop the orientation I'm seeing is correct. So not sure how to make it come out right here.
There's got to be an option somewhere in photoshop to save them with the proper rotation, take a look in the options... Not sure which version you're running, this for CS6, in the File Handling Preferences:
Ignore Rotation Metadata: Many cameras embed rotation metadata (rotate the image 90 degrees upon opening, for example) in the image. Select this option, and Photoshop will ignore any image rotation metadata on the images shot in portrait (vertical) orientation.
You'll then have to rotate the vertical images when you first open them in photoshop (rotate the image, not the view), but they should display properly rotated anywhere after that.
Roscoe
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There's got to be an option somewhere in photoshop to save them with the proper rotation, take a look in the options... Not sure which version you're running, this for CS6, in the File Handling Preferences:
You'll then have to rotate the vertical images when you first open them in photoshop (rotate the image, not the view), but they should display properly rotated anywhere after that.
Roscoe
Roscoe,
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
I'm using CS3
Mike
Didn't work. Couldn't find anything resembling the metadata options in preferences. Tried rotating the canvas both CW and CCW. Neither one worked. Back to head scratching
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Mike I've found that if I upload at the same size they come off my camera, many will turn sideways. I think it has something to do with max file size and the site software tries to make it work somehow.
In my photo threads, I reduce photo file size by 25% and it has eliminated problems. Might give that a whirl.
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Mike I've found that if I upload at the same size they come off my camera, many will turn sideways. I think it has something to do with max file size and the site software tries to make it work somehow.
In my photo threads, I reduce photo file size by 25% and it has eliminated problems. Might give that a whirl.
Peter,
Is that something you do when you upload the photo into the thread?
Mike
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I shrink 'em prior to upload in a little (and old) utility called ACDSee. Offers a choice to resize by pixel count or percentage. What I end up with is a full size file as it came from camera and an additional one that carries the same identifier with a 75% after it. That way I preserve the original resolution should I need it.
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Mike, the last few photos I have uploaded have been sideways when placed in the thread, what I had to do was open the photo in the gallery and rotate with the control directly under the pic. It looks odd in the gallery but correct in the thread. I have only recently had to do this, I don't know if the difference is me or the site. I have recently moved to an iPhone, that may be the difference.
Best,
Ed
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163617)
Ron, those look fantastic , love the hickory. Will we be seeing a review?
Best,
Ed
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Got the sideways pic thing figured out and corrected in my earlier post. The issue is resolution/file size. I had originally saved the jpegs at max resolution. This caused them to display sideways. When I saved a copy at medium resolution the images display right side up.
Mike
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Ron, those look fantastic , love the hickory. Will we be seeing a review?
Best,
Ed
Ron,
Now you need to upgrade all the xover parts to much better ones.....will just blow your mind.....as in: 12 gauge Jantzen wax copper foil coils, Clarity Cap CMR caps bypassed by copper foil Jupiter caps, Neotech cryoed wire or VH Audio wire, Path Audio or Dueland resistors.........super big improvement. You have no idea what these speakers can sound like unless you have the best xover parts.
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Ron,
Now you need to upgrade all the xover parts to much better ones.....will just blow your mind.....as in: 12 gauge Jantzen wax copper foil coils, Clarity Cap CMR caps bypassed by copper foil Jupiter caps, Neotech cryoed wire or VH Audio wire, Path Audio or Dueland resistors.........super big improvement. You have no idea what these speakers can sound like unless you have the best xover parts.
Ric, Have you heard these speakers yet? You may not have any idea either. I am pretty sure his crossover parts are easily as good as others that you have mentioned.
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Ron,
Now you need to upgrade all the xover parts to much better ones.....will just blow your mind.....as in: 12 gauge Jantzen wax copper foil coils, Clarity Cap CMR caps bypassed by copper foil Jupiter caps, Neotech cryoed wire or VH Audio wire, Path Audio or Dueland resistors.........super big improvement. You have no idea what these speakers can sound like unless you have the best xover parts.
you are 100% right
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Yeah Danny quit throwing shade and start throwing some cryo'd parts on those bad boys.
Btw, are audiophile cables considered wall art now, or are my eyes deceiving me?
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Ron,
Now you need to upgrade all the xover parts to much better ones.....will just blow your mind.....as in: 12 gauge Jantzen wax copper foil coils, Clarity Cap CMR caps bypassed by copper foil Jupiter caps, Neotech cryoed wire or VH Audio wire, Path Audio or Dueland resistors.........super big improvement. You have no idea what these speakers can sound like unless you have the best xover parts.
Any speaker will sound better with these parts, but I'd hate to price all of that. For the money it would take to re-build the crossovers, he could probably buy a second system.
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Btw, are audiophile cables considered wall art now, or are my eyes deceiving me?
You would be correct!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164192)
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It's probably not that they are wall art. Ron is a reviewer. His site is NewRecordDay. Looks like he keeps a bunch of different types and lengths of cables handy for different pieces of equipment he is evaluating.
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Usable art
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This is my latest build, the GR Research NX Otica with 12x2 Servo Sub Build:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=165020)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=165021)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=165019)
Best,
Ed
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Wow ebag4, they are awesome. :wine:
How they soud???
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ebag4, If those sound as good as they look, they must sound fabulous! :thumb:
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ebag4, If those sound as good as they look, they must sound fabulous! :thumb:
Agree 100%. Beautiful craftsmanship.
charles
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Thanks guys. They are sounding good with a noticeable improvement after ~20 hours or so, they only have about 25 hrs on them now. I am still adjusting the bass, so far just by ear. Another NX Otica MTM owner mentioned he felt they were at their best after 200 hrs.
In case anyone is interested, here is a link to the much too long build thread :lol::
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146187.0
Best,
Ed
Edit: The speakers bloomed just after 50 hrs, I am a very happy camper!
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Ed,
As I mentioned in the other thread, absolutely gorgeous :thumb:
With the Platinum by-pass caps they take awhile to break in. Also, once you get the No-Rez in you will notice a difference.
Using REW to set mine up at the Lone Star Audio Fest took the integration to a new level for me. $80 for a mic, $30 for a mic stand, free software, a bit of a learning curve for the software (not bad though, very easy to follow documentation), and about 4 hours of taking measurements and making adjustments was all it took.
Mike
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Ed, as usual youve knocked it out of the park again.
Absolutely gorgeous.....not much more I can say.
I hope you have many hours of listening bliss.... :thumb:
Perry
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I am just trying to get a feel for the 12 LTA by itself for now. I plan to construct an OB using the 12 LTA for mids, a helper driver for bass (probably an Eminence 15 Alpha) and a tweeter (probably an Eminence ASD 1001). I am open to suggestions. I don't know if this would be the best thread to ask questions on?
Benjamin
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=165150)
Hopefully the image will appear this time.
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I excised the dust cover and inserted some wooden eggs from Hobby Lobby a la Poultrygiest. I am impressed with the driver. The 12 LTA's are getting better the more I play them. I continue to move them around. They are sensitive enough to play more than loud enough in my 16 x 14 x 8 foot room with my 45 SET amps. The amps probably are about 2 WATTs at most. I inserted the BSC I made for my Fostex 166/Voigt Pipes for awhile. They were still plenty loud. I have debated whether to build an H-Frame or just put all three drivers on a larger baffle. The larger baffle would look better, but I am thinking of the H-Frame again because it would allow me to try other wide rangers with ease in the future should I decide to do so.
The current baffles are made from a discarded bed headboard that is 1/2" MDF with a face that looks like real wood. I have access to both 3/4" MDF and Baltic Birch up to 3/4". I wonder about 1/2" MDF with 1/2 BB glued on the outside? I see that some run the 12 LTA full range while others get out of it at 4K or so. I followed a schematic on the internet to build the BSC for my first speaker, the V Pipes. I have used a coil in series with my Fostex 208's in a BIB and different caps in series with my BIB's tweeter. But, I may need some hand holding if I try to just have the LTA do what it is best at. I can start out with it full range to start. I considered the BSC in my Pipes mandatory for a long time, but once the drivers got really broke in (or my ears) I preferred it direct to the amp. I ran a Fostex T90A super tweeter in my BIB's. In the end I decided I could live just as well or better without it. The LTA's do seem to need help at the very top more than the 208's, but I wonder if I will end up feeling the same way about the LTA's once I get tweeters? I guess the best way to know is to try it.
I have a Cary Audio Rocket 88 just sitting on a shelf. I could use it to power an alpha on each side with a big coil. However, a couple of coils would cost nearly as much as a 100W plate amp. I am inclined to pair the alpha's with a plate amp (or a couple of them?) since my experience with a Sonic Impact amp was quick tuneful bass. The Cary went deeper, but it was more slow. I could even sell the Cary to cover the cost of the rest of the project, although it would be nice to have in case I ever decide to move away from 2 watts. Don't know if I should go with Dayton, Yung or Bash? Or, a used Crown or something?
It may be awhile before I can complete the project. I am having lots of fun in the meantime! I tried Xlbaffle, but was not able to figure much out, other than bigger baffle equals more bass, which I already knew. I came up with an oval with the driver way at one end using the Edge by Tovlan. I had to lope it off at the bottom to attach something on the back to hold it up. I did incorporate a tilt.
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Benjamin, nice space, I love the diffuser and your setup, thanks for sharing. With regard to one of your questions, I have used flat baffle, modified U frame and H frame, I have a preference for servos in a H frame, however the flat baffle setups I have heard were not servo systems.
I would recommend starting a separate thread, I believe you would get a wider audience and more responses.
Best,
Ed
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Ed,
As I mentioned in the other thread, absolutely gorgeous :thumb:
With the Platinum by-pass caps they take awhile to break in. Also, once you get the No-Rez in you will notice a difference.
Using REW to set mine up at the Lone Star Audio Fest took the integration to a new level for me. $80 for a mic, $30 for a mic stand, free software, a bit of a learning curve for the software (not bad though, very easy to follow documentation), and about 4 hours of taking measurements and making adjustments was all it took.
Mike
Thanks Mike. Yes, the platinum's do take a long time to break in. I pulled out my Folsom amp today to help with break in (it sounds really great), this keeps me from using up hours on my Elrog 300Bs while not listening to the system.
I hope to get REW going once burn in is complete. BTW, I went ahead and installed the No Rex on the interior wall, it did impact the sound positively although it was tough to take sandpaper to the completed finish :lol:.
Ed, as usual youve knocked it out of the park again.
Absolutely gorgeous.....not much more I can say.
I hope you have many hours of listening bliss.... :thumb:
Perry
Thanks Perry. I learned a lot about finishing on this build. We will see how long I go before getting the itch to build another pair of speakers :duh:.
Best,
Ed
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Thank you Ed, Your speakers are gorgeous!!!!
Benjamin
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163617)
Ron, I know you had the Vinnie Rossi LIO for a bit, did the LIO and the NX Oticas ever cross paths? If so, what did you think of the NX Otica VR amp combo?
Best,
Ed
Edit: Looking closer at the pic, is that a LIO on your rack now?
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Here is an early picture of my OB speakers. The system itself has changed a lot since then.
I cannot take credit for building the speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=166269)
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Near field setup.
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Near field setup.
Oh yes. We have space constraints, but it works just fine :)
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My Zenith Eclipse OB's
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168505)
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Made some quick and dirty OB speakers with the GRS 8" Fullrange. They are just starting to break in but I've always been surprised by this cheap drivers ability.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168825)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168826)
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I felt I needed a bit more tweeter air for the Zenith/Alpha H-frames so I added rear firing RS 40-1310's. The Eminence ASD 1001 are fine OB tweets but with the addition of RS super tweeters I'm getting a very seductive 3D effect with wonderful cymbal shimmer. Brushed high hats and drums are in the room.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169011)
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Hey Poultry!
I'd be really curious to know how the ST might sound mounted on the rear baffle facing upward, instead of toward the front wall. I got to hear a set of old Wharfedale SFB/3's a few months ago, and was very impressed how they handled high frequencies in general. Cymbals emanate up and out, similar to how an actual drum kit might sound in the room.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169028)
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The super tweeters sit on top of a little shelf attached to the back of the baffle just above the Eminence tweeters so it was no problem to try them facing upward. They sound fine firing upwards but I couldn't tell any difference from the short time I listened. I read somewhere that rear facing dipole tweeters should be connected out of phase but I haven't tried that yet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169042)
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Thanks Poultry. It makes some sense that a rear facing 'dipole tweeter' could be wired in reverse polarity. In this way the sound projected forward (actually emanating from the back of a dipole tweeter) would be in phase with the forward mounted drivers on the baffle. In your case, since the RS Super Tweeter is a closed back design, it may not be too significant. I would do what ever sounds best.
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175833)
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Caintucks?
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7 - 10 Split?
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Got The Megaliths open baffle line arrays setup with the new amps. Time for some DSP crossover tweaking.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175834)
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Continuing to experiment with open baffles... I had these baffles on hand from a previous set I used (Scott Faller design) but I added a Tone Tubby Red Alnico driver (Jon Ver Halen design). With my PM5A Lowther OB attempts, I've always heard some freq gap between 100-200Hz as my Lowther runs out of steam in the low 200Hz range and I have not found a bass driver that sounds good to me up to 200Hz. The TTs use a simple coil for a 1st order low pass filter and the Lowthers run with no passive components. The TTs make the Lowthers sound almost full range. They're both a 16 Ohm impedance, so wired in parallel presents an easy 8 ohm load for the amp. Guitar, piano, sax, cello all pop off the baffles. Now a sub can fill in below 80Hz pretty easily.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175966)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175967)
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Yes PG
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175967)
Hi,
Do you think these TTs could perform well as midrange from 270Hz and up?
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Not sure what you mean by "...and up"? Their freq response graph looks clean up to 1-2KHz, beyond that they look a bit sloppy.
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Not sure what you mean by "...and up"? Their freq response graph looks clean up to 1-2KHz, beyond that they look a bit sloppy.
It looks nice til 1500Hz
https://tonetubby.com/specifications-red-alnico-12%E2%80%B3-16-ohm/#
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Got The Megaliths open baffle line arrays setup with the new amps. Time for some DSP crossover tweaking.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175834)
WOW. You're having way too much fun over there. Jealous.
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Agree, that looks like quite a set-up! :o
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Hey Poultry!
I'd be really curious to know how the ST might sound mounted on the rear baffle facing upward, instead of toward the front wall. I got to hear a set of old Wharfedale SFB/3's a few months ago, and was very impressed how they handled high frequencies in general. Cymbals emanate up and out, similar to how an actual drum kit might sound in the room.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169028)
matevana, I for one would certainly be interested in hearing more about your impressions of the SFB/3's! Especially relative to more modern OBs you e built/heard.
Though this probably isn't the right thread for it. :oops:
Care to share?
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It's been a year since first posting about the incredible Zenith 49CZ 802/852 and today I love them more than ever. I spend far more time with them than with the OB Lowthers. The sense of scale and grandeur of these 12" wide band drivers is down right addictive. Buttery smooth with such a sweet tone I can listen for hours. That's much more difficult with the hyper detailed but lit up DX3's.
I just noticed that "Mr. Glow-in-the-Dark" has updated his take on these keepers. His list of full range drivers that don't quite measure up to Zenith's level of performance is impressive.
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/zenith-49cz852.html
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matevana, I for one would certainly be interested in hearing more about your impressions of the SFB/3's! Especially relative to more modern OBs you e built/heard.
Care to share?
I actually got to hear them in less than ideal conditions (someone's attic) but was still very impressed. They just sounded right... I remember the owner played a Yo-Yo-Ma / Claude Bolling CD and both piano and cello sounded very big and lifelike. Because they weren't set up properly I can't comment on their sound stage, nor did the two instruments really tax the speakers upper most register, but I was very impressed with what I heard. I have respect for some of the early designs, that in many ways have not been rivaled today.
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Here's my new diy open baffle speakers, EV SP12C's that I re-coned and modified in my simple open baffle design.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177833)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177834)
So far, I'm really impressed with their sound. A little bright, but for a 12" driver, the high end extension is amazing. No need for a tweeter, maybe some baffle step compensation though. Bass is tight and accurate, but they don't go down really low.
For $150 and a few hours of work, I can't ask for better sounding speakers. I'm definitely hooked on open baffles!
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Wow very nice match OB + Fullrange :thumb:
15'' go 60Hz
12'' go 90/100Hz
8'' go 120Hz
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I'm definitely hooked on open baffles!
They are very different in character from boxed speakers. 8)
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Here's mine, both of them! Alon model One and some homebrew DSP being fed by a raspberry pi :)
https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/xHyoD4GDtBEoKaKPmbkhgoHUrgLia8hBIjNQdKy0yhq
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Here's mine, both of them! Alon model One and some homebrew DSP being fed by a raspberry pi :)
https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/xHyoD4GDtBEoKaKPmbkhgoHUrgLia8hBIjNQdKy0yhq
Nice!
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My just fixed OB proto 3rd generation.
Supravox 215rtf64 + audax tweeter+BD15 sub. Sub powered with Hypex class-D. Sub in N-frame, inspired by Nelson Pass. Supravox in mini-baffle inspired by Linkwitz.
The whole thing sounds very fresh and crisp ! This is the whole idea, to catch the OB openness
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179478)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179479)
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:D
Hello all,
My new system test Infraflex 36" + U-frame 18" + compression 1" with TPA 3116 :)
https://youtu.be/UuPiBPzsmcI
cdt.
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:D
Hello all,
My new system test Infraflex 36" + U-frame 18" + compression 1" with TPA 3116 :)
https://youtu.be/UuPiBPzsmcI
cdt.
Very nice. Could you tell us more about that Infraflex woofer? And what was the music selection in the video?
Greg
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Hello Greg,
look good bass 20 Hz at 100 Hz 105 db SPL /W/m
(https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/512394infra3.png)
(https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/942477infra5.png)
(https://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/823509Infraflex1.png)
U-frame 18"
(https://zupimages.net/up/18/16/uvj4.png) (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=18/16/uvj4.png)
(https://zupimages.net/up/18/16/04je.png) (http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=18/16/04je.png)
a recording of my system with 2 microphones C2 Berhinger at 3 m
https://www.partage-fichiers.com/upload/dbgfwtkc
cdt.Gilles
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Ran across this on Facebook. :o
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31818416_10156193204917165_6352106384238051328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a611b6d80e0f535e369bec34a84ad1c1&oe=5B9AC188)
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I guess he plans to stay single.
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I guess he plans to stay single.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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And one more OB for the forum... my first OB build.
Front panel: 16" x 32", drivers: Eminence 15LFA & Celestion TF1225CX coaxial.
Hybrid XO, Celestion has passive XO, between Eminence and Celestion it is active. Frequencies are 200Hz & 1.9kHz.
Denon AVR-2106 modified to Bi-amp use with miniDSP 2x4HD.
After some months of adjusting DSP settings, I'm still not 100% sure of correct sound balance.. measurements in small room are just pain.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180342)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180343)
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Wow, very nice wood, do you would add a hat above the 12'':
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171833)
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Thanks. Actually the varnish stain worked out much better than I expected, wood is just cheap spruce from Bauhaus.
About that hat, would it be for controlling the directivity pattern?
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Correct, it help more than looks.
Note that if the hat is a thin real wood flap it will resonate according the music, that can be good or no to the sound quality.
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Almost nobody uses a "hat", probably because it has little to no effect at all on sound or directivity. If anything, it adds just a bit of bracing to the baffle.
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Almost nobody uses a "hat", probably because it has little to no effect at all on sound or directivity. If anything, it adds just a bit of bracing to the baffle.
Originally it was created to operate with bass freq which are less directional.
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:D
Hello, run my system
https://youtu.be/uZGAyRrtW18
:thumb:
best regard
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Originally it was created to operate with bass freq which are less directional.
Wings yes. Hat's? Not so much.
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Anyway, here's a quick pic of my temporary OB setup, just to break in the new Audio Nirvana Super 12's which are playing fullrange. Running a single Eminence Acoustinator N2012 Neo woofer per side to provide bass below 200 Hz, and they do extremely well in doing so, extending deep into the mid 30's.
Running a dbx Driverack Venu 360 for crossover duty only, 200 Hz @ 24 dB on the N2012 woofers. The AN Super 12's are getting a fullrange signal. Each OB is being vertically bi-amped by the Carver M-500t MkII amps.
The final OB will be very similar to the P.A.P. Quintet15, only using the N2012 woofers (four per channel) and the AN Super 12. Just ordered the last pair of N2012 woofers from Danny Richie last night. I can't wait to hear the final system results. These temp OB's already sound amazing!
(http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p2878496867-5.jpg)
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:)
hello all
(https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/06/06/180606014339752713.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/180606014339752713.png.html)
(https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/06/06/180606014312485990.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/180606014312485990.png.html)
(https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/06/06/180606014739950701.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/180606014739950701.png.html)
(https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/05/28/180528122321704644.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/180528122321704644.png.html)
(https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/05/28/180528122339592649.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/180528122339592649.png.html)
(https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/05/28/180528122434763398.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/180528122434763398.png.html)
https://youtu.be/Yl9dlLRp3aw
:thumb:
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:D
Hello, run my system
https://youtu.be/uZGAyRrtW18
:thumb:
best regard
Great job, great music selection also, congratulations :thumb:
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Great job, great music selection also, congratulations :thumb:
Hello Russell,
thanks, the music is universal and timeless :)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182086)
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Oh no, the 7 - 10 split!
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Oh no, the 7 - 10 split!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Very funny, watch out for the gutter.
Nice speakers by the way :thumb:
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My latest Lowther system
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184373)
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Two OB systems in the same room. I got a very understanding wife. :D
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184374)
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No baffle and open baffle. I think I like the no baffle more.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184379)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184380)
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This is the biggest Nippel I have see :thumb:
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Big woofers like to hang out
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My latest Lowther system
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184373)
What's the surface of that speaker?
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Wall covering over MDF
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184416)
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My latest Lowther system
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184373)
Which driver is that. I am guessing one of the DX series.
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I have a pair of Wild Burro Audio full range speakers I've been wanting to try in a no-baffle set up. I've been looking for a metal stand that allows magnet mounting. Sort of like this (but with magnet mount):
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184423)
No baffle and open baffle. I think I like the no baffle more.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184379)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184380)
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Which driver is that. I am guessing one of the DX series.
DX3
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Here are mine, Bastanis Prometheus. I don't even know how old these are... 12 years? Older? I've certainly got some mileage out of them though and they're still sounding fantastic. My amp is an upgraded Decware Zen with a Metric Ambre streamer and a Cherry DAC 2. Now all I need is to do is either get a new turnable or replace my cartridge (damn cats).
gary
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184510)
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Early development stage
OB loosely based on PAP layout and trusty Maggies
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184591)
DPL10 bass units, Moth Audio Cicada full range drivers and Raal 70-20XR
Initial impressions are very positive
.. dB
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I have a pair of Wild Burro Audio full range speakers I've been wanting to try in a no-baffle set up. I've been looking for a metal stand that allows magnet mounting. Sort of like this (but with magnet mount):
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184423)
Your going to have to do some serious EQ on that bass driver. Not the way I would go.
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And a picture round the back
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184735)
WELL. It wasn't laying down when I posted it :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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This is the biggest Nippel I have see :thumb:
LOL, I think you mean Nipper.
(The Gramophone/RCA dog was named "Nipper")
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Correct it is Nipper, here at RCA building:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/RCA_Nipper.jpg/330px-RCA_Nipper.jpg)
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Wow. Now that’s BIG!
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I have a pair of Wild Burro Audio full range speakers I've been wanting to try in a no-baffle set up. I've been looking for a metal stand that allows magnet mounting. Sort of like this (but with magnet mount):
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184423)
Sorry for the delay, I missed your post. I've ordered 80/20 aluminum pieces for my next attempt. They can be used to build whatever you can imagine without welding.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186019)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186020)
Pure Audio Project trio 10 Voxativ and Trio 15 Horn
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Hawthorne Audio Rainier MK III
(https://i.imgur.com/v5i2GpM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aJV9MDf.jpg)
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Good looking baffle :thumb:
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Hawthorne Audio Rainier one off made by the builder of the Hawthorne speaker line.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186408)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186409)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186410)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186411)
Oh, I bet those sound niiiicccceee! :thumb:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187214)
Here are my new to me Caintuck Audio "the Betsy".
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:popcorn:
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My open baffle stuff....
Usually my room looks like this....
These are DIY Pure Audio Project Trio
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187537)
But recently I finished up a GR Research X-statik build and paired
them with my GR servos. I wanted to see how inexpensively I could
build a good set of OB......total price (not inc shipping) about $500 US
not including servos of course....
They wont be replacing the PAPs, but I'm amazed at just how nice this combo sounds.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187538)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187539)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187540)
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Beautiful speakers!
BTW, is that a silver faced C1 and a TFM-55?
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My open baffle stuff....
Usually my room looks like this....
These are DIY Pure Audio Project Trio
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187537)
But recently I finished up a GR Research X-statik build and paired
them with my GR servos. I wanted to see how inexpensively I could
build a good set of OB......total price (not inc shipping) about $500 US
not including servos of course....
They wont be replacing the PAPs, but I'm amazed at just how nice this combo sounds.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187538)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187539)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187540)
Very nice setup and great room. I also really like the finish on the PAP.
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Beautiful speakers!
BTW, is that a silver faced C1 and a TFM-55?
Dennis Miller C-11 BillD (black)and a A760-x...... :wink:
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Very nice setup and great room. I also really like the finish on the PAP.
Thank-you
Heres a pic of the finished x-over..... 8)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187571)
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Hi all,
Here's my humble OB design :
https://youtu.be/_zDgTRDqy9Q
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Those sound lovely :icon_surprised:
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My OB
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189833)
Ko
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189833)
Any reason the woofer is not near he floor for more bass?
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Hi all,
Here's my humble OB design :
https://youtu.be/_zDgTRDqy9Q
Great midrange soundstage in this song, congratulations.
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Woofer will be lower, but not extremely low ...
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Great midrange soundstage in this song, congratulations.
Thank you!
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My OB
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189833)
Ko
😎👍
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Sorry for the delay, I missed your post. I've ordered 80/20 aluminum pieces for my next attempt. They can be used to build whatever you can imagine without welding.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194341)
Emrald Physic 2.4
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182341)
Going on close to three years with this set up. Man, I'd like to try something different, but I keep smiling when I listen. Speakers are a design from Scott Faller (Lowther PM5A) and I added the Tone Tubby Alnico driver based on a Jon VerHallen design. The SVS sub blends in to support under 80Hz
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182341)
Going on close to three years with this set up. Man, I'd like to try something different, but I keep smiling when I listen. Speakers are a design from Scott Faller (Lowther PM5A) and I added the Tone Tubby Alnico driver based on a Jon VerHallen design. The SVS sub blends in to support under 80Hz
That's a sweet setup... :popcorn:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194986)
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New member here but been with other forums & building Obs for many years. These are based loosely on the Pure Audio Project concept. Speakers are 3 way, measuring very flat down to 30hz with subs phase/time aligned at 50hz (it's a 5 way 2 channel system, two DEQX processors)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195805)
[/img]
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195806)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195807)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195808)
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Welcome Drewan,
What woofers are these?
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The woofers are Beyma 15" - 15LX60V2
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Nice, QTS 0.44 is some low any reason to use this driver?
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New member here but been with other forums & building Obs for many years. These are based loosely on the Pure Audio Project concept. Speakers are 3 way, measuring very flat down to 30hz with subs phase/time aligned at 50hz (it's a 5 way 2 channel system, two DEQX processors)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195805)
Beautiful work! But how do you get a 5 way speaker? I only see 4 drivers there.
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It's a 5 way system - 3 way speakers plus two subs. The master DEQX processor (HDP-5) handles the 3 OB stereo channels, the slave processor (HDP-3) manages the subs. All drivers including subs are calibrated using outdoor measurements and phase/time aligned across all frequencies.
The Beymas handle only 50-280hz. Transients, including bass frequencies are extremely dynamic & life like (much as other open baffle users would probably appreciate). The subs add a level of reality that is difficult to achieve with pure OB bass - something like a foot stomp within music sounds just like someone is walking softly in a different room above, more 'felt than heard'. I like (& need) that.
I voiced these speakers to sound somewhere between PAP Trio & Quintet 15s & having heard both types several times before/after building my own variants, I must say that I'm extremely pleased with the result.
The listening room is very heavily acoustically treated and therefore the only digital eq needed is a 34hz 3dB reduction @ a 3.8 Q to achieve in-room measurements as previously posted.
These speakers were finished early 2017 & were the 5th variant of OB I had produced. DEQX suits open baffle designs very well and I would class the last two types as sounding pretty exceptional. I doubt I will ever need to build anything else.
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Minimalist:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196206)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196207)
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Welcome ES20042 :thumb:
These are the biggest baffles I have see.
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Awesome :thumb: :thumb:
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Welcome ES20042 :thumb:
These are the biggest baffles I have see.
Thank you very much for the welcome! :)
Awesome :thumb: :thumb:
For listening to music, yes; I love them a lot.
but for dimensions, no ...
Only 4.5 inches deep :D
Fostex FE206E + Eminence Beta 15a + Sica LP90.28/N92
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Minimalist:
I think you meant, "Maximalist."
Those are essentially in-wall speakers.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196508)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196563)
My first OB project, for 2 watt 45 tube SET amp: Supravox 400exc - Zingali horn tweeter.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196563)
My first OB project, for 2 watt 45 tube SET amp: Supravox 400exc - Zingali horn tweeter.
These looked really interesting! I like the blue color. Are you happy with the sound?
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:D
My open baffle 18" and compression + infraflex
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2019/07/20/190720062818265126.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/190720062818265126.png.html)
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2019/07/20/190720062834388931.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/190720062834388931.png.html)
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2019/07/20/190720062834712905.png) (https://www.casimages.com/i/190720062834712905.png.html)
works normaly 20Hz at 20 khz (ECM 8000) but the capture audio works 30 hz at 20 Khz ( 2 x C2)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-f0dYvv0p-fVBprcVet_jMSsq5SK2JzM/view?usp=sharing
enjoy :)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196916)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196916)
Nice, interesting FR, it is a Zenith 49CZ852?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196916)
Can you provide us with driver specifications and your sonic impressions with this setup? I also have a pair of zeniths that I am looking forward playing with.
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Zenith 49CZ903 and Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter crossed over with a 1.33uf capacitor.
The sound is a big wide and deep sound stage. Best speakers I've owned. I''m not good at describing the sound but it sounds great to me. Just added the tweeter this week. I'm 79 years old. I wear hearing aids.
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I came across these recently and thought this group would enjoy.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=196935)
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1561942815/0 (http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1561942815/0)
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Zenith 49CZ903 and Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter crossed over with a 1.33uf capacitor.
The sound is a big wide and deep sound stage. Best speakers I've owned. I''m not good at describing the sound but it sounds great to me. Just added the tweeter this week. I'm 79 years old. I wear hearing aids.
Thanks for inform :thumb: There any sub?
I ask why there is two black boxes on the walls.
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Yes 2 subs, but I enjoy the bass better without the subs. The 49CZ903 has enough for me. Seriously.
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Yes 2 subs, but I enjoy the bass better without the subs. The 49CZ903 has enough for me. Seriously.
I though it was the 49CZ852, I dont know your driver.
Do you know the 49CZ852?
Do you could campare both?
It is a 12 inches?
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Yes 2 subs, but I enjoy the bass better without the subs. The 49CZ903 has enough for me. Seriously.
I would go along with this. For open baffles, no bass is better than bad bass. And in this I would include attempts to integrate most boxes with open baffle drivers.
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The 49CZ903 is a 12" driver. Never heard the 49CZ852. Glow in the Dark website recommended the 903 in addition to the 852.
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Nice, thanks bro.
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Things have changed a lot for me. I have the PAP trio 15 horn. Did a lot of work to get them dialed in. You have to have the crossover remote from the frame. Putting the speaker on a very heavy 8" tall block was the best move ever for the speaker. I have a new STST Motus II TT. I also change the amps to Audio Black Shadow SET.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208159)
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Pursuit of now, do you have the Decware speakers. Do you like them?
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Brand new member and new to OBs. But I've fallen hard. Started with Caintuck Betsys (with Lii Audio Fast 8 drivers) and loved the sound but wanted fuller upper bass and lower mids, so I built a DIY "Bigger Betsy" using Lii Audio F15 drivers:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208197)
Very happy with the sound, though the bass drops off a cliff below 60 Hz in my small room.
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Larpy,
Would you mind describing the overall sound from your Liii 15 open baffle speakers?
Im in the process of building a pair like yours. Is it worth it?
Thanks
Dan
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Well, I'm new to open baffle speakers, so the only other open baffle speakers I've heard are the Caintuck Betsys with Lii Audio Fast 8 drivers. The Lii F15 drivers in the larger baffle sound very similar to the Fast 8s but filled out in the lower midrange and upper bass. They have the same huge soundstage and palpability. That and the dynamic contrasts (scale?) are what really hooked me on the Caintuck Betsys, and the F15s do those things just as well.
The Fast 8s might have a little more resolution in the treble. The F15s start rolling off in my room above 8K Hz and are more or less gone above 12K, but so is my hearing so that doesn't bother me. But for younger listeners, a super-tweeter might be in order. The presence region is a little hot (3 dBs up between 5K and 8K), but my middle-aged ears don't mind. Bass is flat to 80 Hz and sounds subjectively full until 60 Hz. Below that it rolls off quickly. 40 Hz is probably 15-20 dBs down.
Is it worth it? Yes! Even with a (admittedly cheap) subwoofer, the Caintuck Fast 8 Betsys sounded just a little too thin. The sub added fullness to the upper bass, but there was still a trough (–4 or 5 dBs) between 200 and 500 Hz. Acoustic music sounded lovely, but rock sounded hollowed out. But, depending on your taste, the bass of the F15 is fine even without a sub. Honestly, if I just listen to the music, I don't really miss the bass below 60 Hz because even low bass notes sound musical. And the lower mids might be a little lean but it doesn't bother me.
I'd be more help if I had more experience with OB speakers. What I can say is that I've been listening to the F15s in the bigger Betsy-styled baffles just about all day everyday this week while I worked from home, and there's been no listening fatigue. And I had the volume turned up.
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Thanks Larpy,
I will add a HSU subwoofer to he Lii system and I hope low frequencies won’t be a problem.
Thanks again,
Dan
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Things have changed a lot for me. I have the PAP trio 15 horn. Did a lot of work to get them dialed in. You have to have the crossover remote from the frame. Putting the speaker on a very heavy 8" tall block was the best move ever for the speaker. I have a new STST Motus II TT. I also change the amps to Audio Black Shadow SET.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208159)
Nice! I was thinking building a woofer-horn-woofer set. How are the mids?
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Some nice stuff on here!
Following on from my last post (Pg.10 #263) my OB's have evolved now to a metal scaffold design. I want simplicity and no woodwork.
The scaffold is cut to size by the supplier.....I just need to assemble. The Faital arrays are hung by cable, as are the woofers (UM18), so complete isolation.
For sure, this is not the most efficient way to do bass, especially since I enjoy listening at concert levels and want to feel the bass with Kraftwerk....but its fast, clean, deep, and best of all, no room modes! They are driven by a pair of NX6000D's which also handle the crossover (275hz) to the full range Faitals (2 x 4FE32 + 4 x 3FE22)....and no....no comb filter effects!
(https://i.imgur.com/LNndXIs.jpg)
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Very interesting design. What is this minimalist approach called ?
Also, how are the sub drivers wired (in phase or out of phase with each other, bipole/dipole) ?
Some nice stuff on here!
Following on from my last post (Pg.10 #263) my OB's have evolved now to a metal scaffold design. I want simplicity and no woodwork.
The scaffold is cut to size by the supplier.....I just need to assemble. The Faital arrays are hung by cable, as are the woofers (UM18), so complete isolation.
For sure, this is not the most efficient way to do bass, especially since I enjoy listening at concert levels and want to feel the bass with Kraftwerk....but its fast, clean, deep, and best of all, no room modes! They are driven by a pair of NX6000D's which also handle the crossover (275hz) to the full range Faitals (2 x 4FE32 + 4 x 3FE22)....and no....no comb filter effects!
(https://i.imgur.com/LNndXIs.jpg)
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crossover (275hz) to the full range Faitals (2 x 4FE32 + 4 x 3FE22)....and no....no comb filter effects!
Very cool. Love the "center" CH. :wink:
Don't see a TV (maybe hidden drop down screen?), do you listen to music in MCH?
Also curious why the 2x3+2x4+2x3 Faitals? No shading, straight signal?
cheers,
AJ
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Hi AJ
Yah.....TV on top but cropped. I listen mainly stereo, but have MCH facility.
I purchased 8 x 3's & 8 x 4's to experiment with. I preferred the highs of the 3's, but the fullness of the 4's....so tried a few combinations.
The current one I like best! Signal is straight, but high passed from 200hz.
Cheers
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K9vap, nice system!
Can you explain how you wired up the basses?
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Sure.....hopefully self-explanatory from the pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/xCnnLWb.jpg)
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Sure.....hopefully self-explanatory from the pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/xCnnLWb.jpg)
How did you electronically wire them up (in or out of phase with each other) ???
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Sorry :green:
Just reverse polarity on one of the woofers.......push/pull arrangement.
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Sorry :green:
Just reverse polarity on one of the woofers.......push/pull arrangement.
Thanks.
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This is a confuration I've never been able to wrap my head around.
It seems to me that two cones moving in the same direction like this would hardly move more air than a single cone and would offer little advantage over a single cone, compared to the same two cones laterally displaced (i.e., side by side), whether forward or rearward aimed. It would seem that the acoustic output of two drivers like that would be more or less the same as one with the same input power and the only advantage I can see would be greater power handling in terms of voice coil heating, but now excursion limited, just like a single driver. Could you explain what you see as the advantage?
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Seems like its a directivity advantage.... see this thread:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/46111-legacy-whisper-bass.html#post3897099 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/46111-legacy-whisper-bass.html#post3897099)
(https://i.imgur.com/J4xYwxr.png)
I have tried many bass configurations with various baffle arrangements. The single cone monopole arrangement fires bass everywhere,
bouncing off the walls creating huge artifacts. There is a 3db increase in SPL using this way as opposed to a 6db increase facing the same way.
But at the end of the day, bass is all about integrating with the room.
In my room, this compound dipole arrangement works fantastically well, and certainly gives me the best, most even bass I ever had.
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Work in progress...
5th, 7th and 8th generation OB's ready to face off in some indoor measurement and A/B/C testing - I need a bigger room!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210197)
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Changed things up a bit recently.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210203)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210204)
1. Out go the DX3s, in go the Visaton B200s
the DX3s I could only get to sound great with the 2a3 amps I tore down and parted out. I'm waiting for phase plugs. Getting used to these as is for a bit.
2. Out goes the diy 2a3s, in goes the Dennis Had Inspire PSE.
I like diy a lot, but I felt like I needed a dose of commercial at least for now for level setting.
Ashly xo, Bottlehead SEX doing pre/head amp duties, ClassD for the 15as
The second pick of the rack and surroundings has a lot of stuff in it that I thought the group would get a kick out of for its messiness and for the used and unused gear.
The back of the room (not pictured) has a mess of other things too, Klipsch Heresy Is, more amps and dacs, etc. Some time in the near future I'll need to get my a/d/s 810s back from a buddy and hook them up to this amp. I bet they'd sound really good (but not OB !).
-Steve
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Needed some tunes in the garage but I also put these OB together so I could sell the Marantz 1150 integrated on CL. In these difficult times I don't want strangers coming into my house for auditions. The full range drivers are Realistic 40-1286c over plate amp driven Eminence Alphas. The tweeters are B&G Neo 3 planars with their back covers removed.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211078)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211086)
:roll:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211086)
Still breaking in, in the bedroom!
:roll:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211116)
(http://)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212320)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211086)
Still breaking in, in the bedroom!
:roll:
What drivers are you using in your setup..?
:popcorn:
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Since I now have the Lowther DX3's in MJK's MLTL cabinets I found drivers to replace them. They are 8 inch Zenith alnico's pulled from a 1957 console. Same console that the 49CZ802's came from. Wish I knew the model number but all markings were blacked out at the factory. They are exceptional just like their big brother 49CZ's. Bi-amping with class d amps and crossing over with an Ashly active.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212533)
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The 8 inch Zenith alnico's sound like large Coral Holey Baskets. Except for the cone they look much the same.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212534)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211086)
Still breaking in, in the bedroom!
:roll:
If that's your bedroom system, I really want to see your main system!
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My Fasico OB3 with Raal and elipticore :dance:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213789)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213788)
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The Acoustic Elegance dipole18 is mounted in the back and in the front :D :D :D
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213790)
As well as the amplifier :D
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DIY ob using 2 visiton w250 woofers and a fostex fe108ez. The acoustic crossover is about 500 hz. I simulated the design with MJ King's matchcad worksheets. I am really enjoying these. The bass sounds nice with good definition and transients. The fe108ez has very good midrange and treble. I am powering them with a Schiit Aegir currently.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214721)
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My Fasico OB3 with Raal and elipticore :dance:
Nice 8)
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DIY ob using 2 visiton w250 woofers and a fostex fe108ez. The acoustic crossover is about 500 hz. I simulated the design with MJ King's matchcad worksheets. I am really enjoying these. The bass sounds nice with good definition and transients. The fe108ez has very good midrange and treble. I am powering them with a Schiit Aegir currently.
:thumb:
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These are an open baffle but also utilizing a hem-holtz resonator. Designed by Decware Audio.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214726)
It might help to have a drawing too.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214727) It should be noted that there is a slot that be adjusted just below the driver. It is the piece that angles a bit downward. this would be the mouth of the 'input port'. The resonated bass exits out of the port on the top/back of the cabinet.
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Very cool speaker.
With AE dipole 18, you must have a very deep low end,
I have dipole 15 but I am not using it in my project.
How sound dipole raal ?
My Fasico OB3 with Raal and elipticore :dance:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213789)
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Here my setup: (of course, they are prototype).
Raal 140-15d dam (>2.8k)
Supravox 215rtf64 (300-2.8k)
Faital Pro 18fh500 (45-300hz)
Rel Gibraltar G1 (<45hz)
Digital XO done into Roon.
Room is a dedicated bedroom (9.5' x 12' x 8' height)
(https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2020/09/16//20091607103222427417024353.jpg)
In-room response at my listening position:
(https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2020/09/08//20090804484822427417013767.png)
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First open baffle set up. Caintuck with Lii Fast 8's.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214766)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215117)
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Bi-amped Zenith alnico's with Neo3's over Eminence Alphas. Crossover is an Ashly active. A Volt+D powers the HF and a TPA3116 the LF.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215128)
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Kevin... could you post some comments about the caintucks... how do they sound top end, bass, tone, etc... and how do they compare to the omegas?
Thanks
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Test baffles for.my new hybrid open baffles.
Satori WO24P sealed bass, dipole BG Neo10 mids. Tweeters are currently dipole Neo3s, but I have a pair of Aurum Cantus AST2560 on a plane headed my way.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218065)
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It may be a stretch to call an ESL an OB, but I'm good with it:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218068)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218069)
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Test baffles for.my new hybrid open baffles.
Satori WO24P sealed bass, dipole BG Neo10 mids. Tweeters are currently dipole Neo3s, but I have a pair of Aurum Cantus AST2560 on a plane headed my way.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218065)
Gorgeous speaker! Love those finger joints
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It may be a stretch to call an ESL an OB, but I'm good with it:
With OB woofer for bass. 8)
What is the woofers x-o point?
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These are my previous DIY open baffle speakers (Hawthorne Sterling Silver Iris 15" Duets) which are now listed for sale in the "For Sale: Speakers" section here: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173837.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173837.0)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218224)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218229)
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These are my previous DIY open baffle speakers (Hawthorne Sterling Silver Iris 15" Duets) which are now listed for sale in the "For Sale: Speakers" section here: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173837.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173837.0)
Congratulations, this is a beautiful set, first class wood work :thumb:
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With OB woofer for bass. 8)
What is the woofers x-o point?
The Peerless SLS woofer crosses over to the ESL panel at 250Hz using a DBX Driverack Venu 360 & 24db/octave LR filter.
The details of the speaker are shown on my website here: http://jazzman-esl-page.blogspot.com/
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What drivers are you using in your setup..?
:popcorn:
I just came across, Pure Audio Project Quintet 15
https://hifipig.com/pureaudioproject-quintet15-wall-of-sound-open-baffle-speakers/
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Finished. 3 way passive open baffles. AST2560, Neo10, Satori WO24P. Corian baffle, sealed walnut bass enclosure.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220855)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220856)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220857)
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Well done sfdoddsy! Those look very good, and I bet they sound very good as well. I'd say enjoy, but I'm guessing you already are.
JCarney
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Digital XO done into Roon.
In-room response at my listening position:
(https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2020/09/08//20090804484822427417013767.png)
Very nice! Questions:
1. Is the red part of room a wall or absorption panels running the length?
2. XO via Roon - do you DSP or XO? What is the. Actual setup to do a Dig XO via Roon?
Thanks,
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Very nice! Questions:
1. Is the red part of room a wall or absorption panels running the length?
2. XO via Roon - do you DSP or XO? What is the. Actual setup to do a Dig XO via Roon?
Thanks,
The red panels are 4 inch broadband absorbers.
On the top, gik gridfuser .
I do both XO and DSP
< 45hz (18db/oct) for my subs
between 45-300hz (18db/oct) for my woofers (18inch)
between 300-2800 (18dB/oct) for my fullrange wooders (10inch)
> 2800hz (18db/oct) for the tweeters.
I tried 12db/18db/24db/48db and 96db/oct.
24dB+ isolate too much one drivers. I am pretty close 8.5feets away from the speakers.
12dB is good but I have less precision than the 24.
18dB was a great compromise between natural and precision in my setup.
I am using Acourate software to generate XO and room correction.
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Here's mine
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221148)
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I've been away from the DIY OB scene for a few years, but I'm back with my old project, and this time I plan on finalizing it and finishing it with proper baffles.
This is just all a temp setup, just for "proof of concept". These are the same drivers and dbx Venu 360 that I used a few years ago, but now in a much more suitable room, and with better gear overall ahead of it. I'll break down the entire system, as well as future plans...
Schiit Freya+ with NOS GE 6FQ7's and 6CG7's as the current tubes of choice. The Freya+ is being fed from from a Raspberry Pi 4 wirelessly via USB to a Schiit Bifrost 2 Multibit. From the Freya+, signal heads to the dbx Driverack Venu 360.
Audio Nirvana Super 12 Ferrite, powered by the Emotiva XPA 2 Gen 2, and crossed over at 35 Hz.
Eminence Acoustinator N1202, powered by Nuprime STA 9 (top one), and crossed over from 50 Hz to 190 Hz.
JL Audio e110 subwoofers, fed signal by second Nuprime STA 9 via high level input, and crossed over at 60 Hz.
All interconnects are Wireworld and Pangea XLR balanced cables.
Once I decide on a baffle design, it will be built with two layers of 0.75" Baltic Birch plywood for a nice and solid 1.5" thickness. The baffles won't be much wider than they are now, if at all. I have two pairs of the Eminence Acoustinator N1202 drivers and will wire them in parallel for a nominal 4 ohm load. So far with just two of them playing in the system (one per side), they are very impressive in their bass response and output capabilities. Running two per side in parallel will only make them that more efficient and dynamic, which they already are on their own.
As for the baffle design, I'm still on the fence as to how I'm going to go, whether it be a spin-off of the Pure Audio style or just a single, solid baffle, and whether or not I will have both bass drivers on the bottom, or one above and one below... a.k.a. - D' Appolito style.
As far as the current sound I'm getting?... Absolutely shocking honestly. Right now I'm streaming Andrew Jones' Elac demo playlist on Qobuz (running via Roon). Vocal naturalness, dynamics, weight and life-size presence and height is incredibly realistic, to the point of being "spooky" or "eerie" and sending chills right down your spine. Heck, even when I was in the kitchen making my coffee earlier, I swore someone came walking into the room and started talking. It scared the crap out of me! LOL
So far, all instruments have proper weight, heft, meat to them and great texture and tonality. The amount of detail throughout the entire range is excellent. And the treble... Let's not forget about that. All three of my brothers were over last night for dinner and a movie. They picked whatever they wanted to listen to music-wise while dinner was cooking. All three of them swore that I had some tweeters installed somewhere. LOL The treble extension on these Audio Nirvana Super 12's is amazing. Full of "zip", airy, crisp, but still silky smooth, detailed and non-fatiguing. And there's absolutely zero EQ correction up that high in the Auto EQ. In fact, the highest EQ correction is +1.5 dB at 8.25 kHz at a Q of 6.24.
Because the baffles are currently standing directly on the suspended wood floor, you can feel each and every note, foot stomp, bass drum kick, bass string come right through the floor, and that's all coming from those two single 12" bass drivers. The JL subs are 4" off the floor on IsoAcoustics ISO-200 sub isolators, so I get very little energy transfer from them through the floor.
And lastly, sounds stage is deep, wide and tall when needed, and imaging is pretty spot on. The funny thing is, these open baffles just replaced my beloved pair of Martin Logan SL3's which I had dialed in as good as they could be in this room. Those SL3's sound excellent, but these ugly little OB's are bringing a lot more to the table right now.
Here's a few pics taken earlier today...
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134248683-5.jpg)
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134248726-5.jpg)
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134248674-5.jpg)
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134248680-5.jpg)
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(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134543662-5.jpg)
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134545220-5.jpg)
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Here's mine
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221148)
Love the yin and yang drivers.
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Here’s one of my LXMinis:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221182)
I wanted a project to complete last summer and the LXMini was always something that interested me because I wanted something open baffle but didn’t really have the space for one. The LXMini looked like a way to get around that issue and I’ve been enjoying it a good bit ever since but the itch to build something else is starting to creep up again now that I’ve moved and have a little more space. I really enjoy the LX’s imaging but I find myself wanting a bit more in terms of timbre and bass impact.
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Chops - nice speaker experiment.
What are those cat sacks? 2 of mine might like those.
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Chops - nice speaker experiment.
What are those cat sacks? 2 of mine might like those.
Thank you. Was listening to them all day yesterday, tweaking crossover points and running the Auto EQ. These are by far the best sounding speakers I have now, by a long shot. And that's comparing them to Martin Logan SL3's, NHT 2.9's, just to name a couple. They outperform my oldest brother's Magnepan 1.7's, and my other brother's Monitor Audio Bronze 500's. That's not only me saying that, but they also said that this past weekend.
As for the kitty beds, they're something new that PetsMart is carrying. https://www.petsmart.com/cat/beds-and-furniture/cuddler-beds/whisker-city-grey-marble-snuggle-cave-cuddler-cat-bed-61182.html (https://www.petsmart.com/cat/beds-and-furniture/cuddler-beds/whisker-city-grey-marble-snuggle-cave-cuddler-cat-bed-61182.html)
Our kitties love them, so we'll definitely be getting a few more.
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Looking back on a few old posts from when I first bought these Audio Nirvana drivers, and just realized that I totally forgot that I purchased a total of four pairs of these Eminence bass drivers!
Gotta go back to the drawing board and figure out how I'm going to implement all eight of these 12" drivers. I had originally planned on building something along the lines of the Pure Audio Quintet line, but I don't think I want to have these speakers standing that tall. Hmm...
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(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134543662-5.jpg)
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p4134545220-5.jpg)
Nice system. Do you struggle with balancing the left and right speakers as one has a window for early reflections and the other a wide open doorway?
Shame that Audio Nirvana drivers are not easily available in the UK.
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Nice system. Do you struggle with balancing the left and right speakers as one has a window for early reflections and the other a wide open doorway?
Shame that Audio Nirvana drivers are not easily available in the UK.
Thank you. Surprisingly, no. I've had everything from NHT 2.9's, GR-Research X-Statik's, Klipsch Heresy III's, JBL Studio 530's, Martin Logan SL3's, and these nasty looking open baffles (LOL), and have never had any balance issues. Even when I close that door on the left, nothing changes. I think most of that has to do with the fact that I sit so close to the speakers. That and that fluffy, plush area rug I have in the room, which helped tremendously.
It looks like I have a lot of room in my pictures and that I sit a good distance away, but that's just because of the wide angle lens I use on my phone. The speakers are typically 9' or so apart at their centers (almost 5' from front wall and 2.5' from the side walls), and I sit roughly 9' to 10' in front of them and the rear wall is about 4' behind me. The room itself is 12.5' x 15.5' x 8' IIRC.
I could be off a little on those measurements, but the point being is that I basically sit in the nearfield.
It's a shame it's difficult for you to get Audio Nirvana drivers over in the UK. If you ever come across a pair for a really good deal, you should definitely pick them up.
They really are great sounding drivers. I love these things. We were watching the David Gilmore - Live at Pompeii concert last night at some pretty loud volumes, and man, these speakers are so extremely effortless, clean, clear and life-like. So much dynamic range, snap and energy. A wide, expansive sound stage and great detail and extension without ever being fatiguing. These completely blow away ALL of my other speakers combined. And that's a tall order considering their direct competition are the GR-Research X-Statik's with fully upgraded crossovers and No-Rez installed, and the excellent Martin Logan SL3's.
These little, ugly OB's simply dominate in all aspects. The only downside is the slapped together baffles (from scrap wood I had laying around) have a tendency to rattle from time to time with certain bass notes at high volumes, but again, these baffles were ONLY meant to be a temporary thing just to break in those AN drivers.
The funny thing is, if they sound this good now, I can't even begin to imagine how great they are going to sound when I add in the other six 12" bass drivers and on the finished baffles!!!
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Been tweaking speaker positioning more, adjusting levels, crossover points and such. Really getting these dialed in. The result of all that work was that the AutoEQ in the dbx Venu 360 had to implement a lot less in order to make corrections.
Afterwards, I played my reference songs from Phil Collins - In The Air Tonight, I Don't Care Anymore, and Genesis - Mama. Songs/albums that I have lived and breathed for the past 30+ years. Also Carley Simon -Coming Around Again and Sting - Why Should I Cry For You and When The Angels Fall.
Especially while playing the Phil Collins and Genesis tracks, tonight was the first time in a very long time that my system made me get chills down my spine and actually start laughing to myself because how damn good it sounded! The last time this happened was when I was running HUGE open baffles back in the early 2000's with Usher Audio 15" drivers and Altec Voice Of The Theater 511B horns and 908-8b drivers. And this system is more refined than that system was, and much smaller by comparison!
Sheer dynamic swing, purely effortless slam, in-the-room vocals and drums, stage width and depth galore! And the naturalness and realistic presentation of it all... And this is STILL with the flimsy temp baffles and only one bass driver per side. I still have six more of these Eminence Acoustinator N2012 drivers to install (three per channel).
This is the RTA on the dbx Venu 360 after all the tweaking and running AutoEQ again, now with a lot less processing needed.
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2187630809-5.jpg)
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Latest upgrade to my baffles
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233637)
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Wow nice woofers.
What preamp is this ?
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Here's the system
Source
SW1X Universal Music Server UMS I Signature with Power Supply Unit PSU I Signature
SW1X USB II
SW1X DAC III Special
Amps
Hi fi Collective twin mono ladder stepped attenuator, with Charcroft Z-foil resistors, AN tantalum bypass resistors and silver wired.
Welborne 45 SET monoblocks 1.8W......Decware Taboo 6W......Elekit 300B TU-8600SVK 9W......ICE Power 1000W
Speakers
Highly modified Endorphin P17 open baffle speakers. All silver wired - 8" Cube Audio FC8 full range drivers (no crossovers or pass filters). 15" Altec VOTT 416 bass drivers with dedicated amp using MiniDSP
Occasional REL T5i sub
Cabling
Silver mains cables, interconnects and speaker cables by SW1X
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I have 2 systems, both with OB speakers. GR Research Super 7's downstairs and Spatial Audio X3's upstairs:
GR Research Super 7's:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221917)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192588)
Spatial Audio X3's:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231613)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231616)
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Tyson,
Totally jealous of your listening space..
Well done.. :thumb:
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Hello and Merry Christmas,
I'm new around here and thought it might be a good idea to start with my listening room.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234228)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234230)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234229)
Best regards from Berlin,
Philipp
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Fantastisch blau raum, congratulations :thumb:
Very refreshing feeling see these paintings.
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Thanks! It sure is something different I believe. 😁
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Been tweaking speaker positioning more, adjusting levels, crossover points and such. Really getting these dialed in. The result of all that work was that the AutoEQ in the dbx Venu 360 had to implement a lot less in order to make corrections.
Afterwards, I played my reference songs from Phil Collins - In The Air Tonight, I Don't Care Anymore, and Genesis - Mama. Songs/albums that I have lived and breathed for the past 30+ years. Also Carley Simon -Coming Around Again and Sting - Why Should I Cry For You and When The Angels Fall.
Especially while playing the Phil Collins and Genesis tracks, tonight was the first time in a very long time that my system made me get chills down my spine and actually start laughing to myself because how damn good it sounded! The last time this happened was when I was running HUGE open baffles back in the early 2000's with Usher Audio 15" drivers and Altec Voice Of The Theater 511B horns and 908-8b drivers. And this system is more refined than that system was, and much smaller by comparison!
Sheer dynamic swing, purely effortless slam, in-the-room vocals and drums, stage width and depth galore! And the naturalness and realistic presentation of it all... And this is STILL with the flimsy temp baffles and only one bass driver per side. I still have six more of these Eminence Acoustinator N2012 drivers to install (three per channel).
This is the RTA on the dbx Venu 360 after all the tweaking and running AutoEQ again, now with a lot less processing needed.
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2187630809-5.jpg)
Don't you love the Venu 360!
I bought one after seeing yours, and it's an amazing piece of equipment-- my homebuilt hybrid ESL's never sounded so good :-)
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Philipp
Your room is fantastic! I'm in love with the design and colors. Well done!
Greg
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Pure Audio Project Trio15 Horn1 speakers.
I didn't build these but did have to assemble them. These are exactly what I was looking for - adding more openness and clarity to the sound. And increasing sensitivity was a plus as well (from 87dB boxes to 96dB OBs w/horn).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235241)
I am still getting used to adjusting the volume on these. With my previous box speakers, which required a kick in the pants to sound their best, I turned them up until the room was loaded. These require less volume to sound proper. And the bass ... I love the way the bass sounds. Plus, since I am getting down to 25Hz +-0dB in-room I was able to sell my subs to help finance these puppies (which was a requirement for the swap).
I had to dial back the L/R channel gains on my preamp for these higher sensitivity speakers. SO glad I can easily do that on my Mapletree Audio 2A/SE preamp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=89558)
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I didn't build these but did have to assemble them. These are exactly what I was looking for -
Awesome!!!
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Pure Audio Project Trio15 Horn1 speakers.
I didn't build these but did have to assemble them. These are exactly what I was looking for - adding more openness and clarity to the sound. And increasing sensitivity was a plus as well (from 87dB boxes to 96dB OBs w/horn).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235241)
I am still getting used to adjusting the volume on these. With my previous box speakers, which required a kick in the pants to sound their best, I turned them up until the room was loaded. These require less volume to sound proper. And the bass ... I love the way the bass sounds. Plus, since I am getting down to 25Hz +-0dB in-room I was able to sell my subs to help finance these puppies (which was a requirement for the swap).
I had to dial back the L/R channel gains on my preamp for these higher sensitivity speakers. SO glad I can easily do that on my Mapletree Audio 2A/SE preamp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=89558)
I like it !! :thumb:
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Thanks fellers :thumb:
Seriously, these are my final speakers. I mean it! (Had I nickel for every time an audiophool said that after acquiring a new piece of kit ... :lol: )
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Thanks fellers :thumb:
Seriously, these are my final speakers. I mean it! (Had I nickel for every time an audiophool said that after acquiring a new piece of kit ... :lol: )
Seems like you have chosen wisely :thumb:
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Thanks fellers :thumb:
Seriously, these are my final speakers. I mean it! (Had I nickel for every time an audiophool said that after acquiring a new piece of kit ... :lol: )
The PAP's are seriously good speakers. I was super impressed with them every time I heard them at RMAF.
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My LX521
(https://i.ibb.co/VV8n3vK/IMG-2973.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2pVn3m)
(https://i.ibb.co/NT40qmD/321-E8-C8-B-F11-D-40-EF-BDC1-1-BFF20-D31-A61.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41QbLYv)
My Dali Skyline 1000 (under restoration)
(https://i.ibb.co/9nGxpNf/5785-EEC0-1-F1-E-4794-8384-3-C4-F46912693.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1746Py)
(https://i.ibb.co/S5qbjD1/CCA61966-CD23-4-E52-AA96-F4-E319568-CE7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gmsN2bX)
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My system
4 way active (with subs)
Raal 140-15d, Supravox 215rtf64 and Faital Pro 18fh500, Rel G1
(https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/03/14//22031406174722427417829088.jpg)
four binaural recording with sennheiser ambeo
https://youtu.be/MpyC8svGy5c
https://youtu.be/XwVVkeCWxlA
https://youtu.be/Q6ow5JjrqjE
https://youtu.be/piq8afwaaqA
https://youtu.be/-5xA6zN9zOY
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My LX521
(https://i.ibb.co/VV8n3vK/IMG-2973.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2pVn3m)
(https://i.ibb.co/NT40qmD/321-E8-C8-B-F11-D-40-EF-BDC1-1-BFF20-D31-A61.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41QbLYv)
Hey Raelman
That’s quite a collection of speakers
Can you share your thoughts on the differences between the
LX521 and Troels Loudspeaker?
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For sure, this is not the most efficient way to do bass, especially since I enjoy listening at concert levels and want to feel the bass with Kraftwerk....but its fast, clean, deep, and best of all, no room modes! They are driven by a pair of NX6000D's which also handle the crossover (275hz) to the full range Faitals (2 x 4FE32 + 4 x 3FE22)....and no....no comb filter effects!
(https://i.imgur.com/LNndXIs.jpg)
These subwoofer drivers facing each other, is this arrange only used for sub and bass? Or will it work for mids as well?
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These subwoofer drivers facing each other, is this arrange only used for sub and bass? Or will it work for mids as well?
Low bass only.
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Hope he doesn't mind me saying it but k9vap was the creator of one of the best price/performance vinyl playback systems ever! The Trans-Fi Audio Terminator Arm-Salvation Table system.
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Low bass only.
thanks!
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Wow some excellent examples I never knew existed. Really loving the Spatial M6 speakers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240653)
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OB Update ...
Swapped out my Audio Mirror 45-Watt SETs for a 2A3-based Whammerdyne DGA-1 Stereo Amp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240690)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240691)
... I've stopped looking for gear. I'm confident this is my end game system. Superb.
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Lii Audio F-15s powered by Bottlehead 2a3 mono blocks over plate amp powered H-frame Alphas.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240741)
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Lii Audio F-15s powered by Bottlehead 2a3 mono blocks over plate amp powered H-frame Alphas.
Impressive set, how it sounds ?
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Based on my experience so far the F-15 hype is true. These are incredible wide band speakers with excellent bass even without LF assist. They play high enough that you don't feel like you're missing anything on the top end. Just the ticket for anyone wanting crossover-less HE single drivers on an easy to build flat baffle.
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OK; an ESL isn't what everyone had in mind but... does my speaker count as an OB?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241284)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241285)
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Those look outstanding ...😎
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Great setup...👍
Lii Audio F-15s powered by Bottlehead 2a3 mono blocks over plate amp powered H-frame Alphas.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240741)
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That looks great I'm sure it sounds terrific..
:thumb:
OB Update ...
Swapped out my Audio Mirror 45-Watt SETs for a 2A3-based Whammerdyne DGA-1 Stereo Amp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240690)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=240691)
... I've stopped looking for gear. I'm confident this is my end game system. Superb.
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@bladesmith
That looks great I'm sure it sounds terrific..
Thanks! Yes, it does. Love it.
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Maybe my best open baffles so far: Lowther, F-15, and Eminence Alpha
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242491)
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I noticed many of the youtube videos are featuring the Lii Audio Fast 8 wired in parallel with the F-15. I didn't think too much of the idea until I tried it with the Lowther DX3 and F-15. Now I'm a believer. No crossovers or filters other than the frequency control on the plate amp which powers the Alpha bass woofers. The DA-9 amp I'm now using to drive the Lowthers and F-15s does have some useful EQ settings. I'm lost for words to explain how good this set up sounds.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242492)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242568)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242569)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242570)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242571)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242572)
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Those are so cool looking, P-geist!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243447)
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As nice as the SMSL DA-9 amp sounded driving the DX3's and F-15's things improved when I subbed in the 2a3 Bottlehead mono blocks. Had to rewire the OB's from 4 ohm to 16 ohm as I was afraid I might stress the Bottleheads which are wired for 8 ohm speakers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=243529)
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deleted
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I started out by building solid mahogany baffle boards (28" x 28" x 1.8") for the Lii-Song F15, with flush grill rings. Also, floor mahogany stands with adjustable tilt.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245352)
The imaging was suboptimal with the floor stands, so I tried raising the speakers to built-in cabinet height - imaging greatly improved, but now too high for my taste.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245357)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245354)
After several more experiments, I built a set of ironwood (ipe') rolling stands to raise the floor stands to my ideal height and make trying different speaker positions easy. Now it all sounds great IMO. I do use a subwoofer occasionally to augment the bottom octave, but it's rarely needed I've found.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245355)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245356)
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Have moved to an active (4th order) bi-amp setup. Pass 30.8 on 15"s crossed at 120hz, Allnic A5000 DHT on the Coax, low passed at 60hz, highpass still passive with PAP's crossover. Starting to play around with active Highpass cross and a 3rd amp (Decware se84-25) as well. All in all, active bi-amping and moving the bass to SS made a huge difference. The 'stock' setup for PAP provides alot of overlap between the 15" and 10" in the upper low/ lower mid region. The 10" is run without low pass and the 15"s cross out ~180hz (1st or 2nd order choice). I found tightening this area up and removing some of the overlap really helped. ymmv of course.,
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245209)
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Fun little system for the dining room. Lii Audio F-15 with a Dennis Had Inspire KT88 SEP. I’m not certain on the origin of the baffle. It’s a very professional woodworking job but dimensions don’t quite match those on the Decware website. I’m assuming they’re a clone of the Caintuck Betsy but I’m not certain. If anyone recognizes the baffle then please let me know!
(Bought from Craigslist, owner had no clue of origin)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=245375)
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Fun little system for the dining room. Lii Audio F-15 with a Dennis Had Inspire KT88 SEP. I’m not certain on the origin of the baffle. It’s a very professional woodworking job but dimensions don’t quite match those on the Decware website. I’m assuming they’re a clone of the Canuck Betsy but I’m not certain. If anyone recognizes the baffle then please let me know!
(Bought from Craigslist, owner had no clue of origin)
These are def. a Caintuck style OB. Nice score from craigslist and great looking construction!! I made a pair based off of Decware's ZFL size utilizing the F15. Excellent speakers. I found that adding/incorporating a Ribbon with a simple in-line cap (3.3u) added some nice air to the presentation. You can easily get away with a few 'SE' watts of power. The speakers are very eff.
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Open Baffle fans, here are pictures of the VPE Electrodynamics "Crystal Dipole" Open Baffle speakers. Note the baffles are comprised of cast 1/2" thick acrylic sheet which has 4 x the damping of plywood. You can also see through them. The full-range driver is the new Cube Audio F10 Select, and the bass augmenter is a slot-loaded Eminence 15" Definimax which is driven by a Dayton Audio SPA500DSP Class D amp which includes a parametric crossover filter set and EQ. They sound awesome and you can buy a pair from VPE Electrodynamics in 2023. See:www.vpeelectrodynamics.com
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248315)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248316)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248667)
12" EV-SP full rangers
3/4" dome Tweeter above 12kHz
15" Alphas below 100Hz
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Still find myself returning to the Zenith alnico OB's no matter what else I build. I've also rediscovered the original Miniwatt S-1 which drives the highly efficient Zeniths with ease. Has anyone else here tried a pair of the amazing Zenith alnico's? My CZ49s were pulled from a nice old lady's cobra-matic console made in 1957.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248674)
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PAP Quintet15 with Voxativ AC-X field coils, actively bi-amped.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248675)
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Open Baffle fans, here are pictures of the VPE Electrodynamics "Crystal Dipole" Open Baffle speakers. Note the baffles are comprised of cast 1/2" thick acrylic sheet which has 4 x the damping of plywood. You can also see through them. The full-range driver is the new Cube Audio F10 Select, and the bass augmenter is a slot-loaded Eminence 15" Definimax which is driven by a Dayton Audio SPA500DSP Class D amp which includes a parametric crossover filter set and EQ. They sound awesome and you can buy a pair from VPE Electrodynamics in 2023. See:www.vpeelectrodynamics.com
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248315)
These look so cool with the clear acrylic. Like the drivers is just suspended in the air floating. Definitely going to look more into them.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248316)
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Inspired by Linkwitz LX521, with different drivers & W-frame for 180 deg. push-pull bass config. This provides amazing vibration cancellation compared to the M-frame used in the LX521. I originally built a pair of the original design "boxes" and didn't like the amount of box vibrations. I wanted to avoid the "bridge stand" for the upper freq drivers baffle, so I tried the W-frame & the amount of panel vibrations is so much less. I decided to bolt the upper baffle to the bass "bin" -- second pic.
Woofers: SBAcoustics SB29NRX75-8 10" x2
LM: Scanspeak 22W/8534G00 Discovery 8"
HM: ScanSpeak Discovery 10F/4424
T: Aurum Cantus AST2560 AMT (w/o mounting plate)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251280)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251281)
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PAP Quintet15 with Voxativ AC-X field coils, actively bi-amped.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248675)
Hello Zoonhollis. I am curious if you had different drivers in your PAPs before going with the field coils or did you purchase that way. I would like to hear others comments on the differences experienced going with the field coils. My partner has the Quintet15 with horn1 and Duet15 with vox 1.6.
I have Trio15 Classics with Vox 1.6 on the way now.
Nice setup you have!
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Here are my Jamo R909's. Can go all the way down to 25hz with ease.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253011)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253012)
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New OB speakers downstairs. Its a 4 tower setup, with the front 2 towers having 6 midwoofers playing down to 50hz and then the back 2 towers each having 3 twelve inch servo subwoofers going down to 16hz in room:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=247063)
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The Magnetar II wideband planar in an open baffle with two 3x12 open baffle servo subs. The Monoliths open baffle speaker based on the Super Mini is on top of the two sub cabinets.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253037)
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If I had those acrylic OB's I would add some black trim on the edges to better define their transparency.
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Krillin,
those Jamo 909s are lovely! way ahead of the pack when they first came out. Did you buy them overseas? what amplifer are you using and anything you wish was different?
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Krillin,
those Jamo 909s are lovely! way ahead of the pack when they first came out. Did you buy them overseas? what amplifer are you using and anything you wish was different?
USA presence
The R909's were purchased here in the USA. I have seen the smaller brother the Jamo R907 which was reviewed in Stereophile for sale in California so Jamo did have a small presence stateside. Very popular in Europe though, now they are owned by Klipsch.
Jamo driver quality and baffle
Open baffle always works better the larger the baffle is and the R909's are the bigger brother here. The Jamo R909 drivers are superior to the R907 though with a Scan-Speak Revelator 9700, and Seas Excel Hexadym midrange which the R907 didn't have. They should still be ahead of most of the pack as Scan-speak knows how to make a tweeter and the Revelator 9700 is very well respected in DIY circles, the Seas is a superb performer (https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-seas-w15ch001-5-25-excel-hexadym-motor-midwoofer).
Amplifcation
I have used the McIntosh MHA-150, McIntosh MC-205, and Luxman MA-88 monoblock amplifiers. The MHA-150 and MA-88 tube amplifier were my favorites.
DAC, Preamplifier & Room Correction
Feeding them with a McIntosh MX151, Luxman CL-38, MHA-150 (has pre-outs) and Gustard X26 Pro DAC with dual ES9038PRO chips. I didn't care for the tube preamplifier as it was a low negative feedback type design, the Gustard edged out the MHA-150 but they were very close, and the MX-151 isn't as good as the Gustard or MHA-150 however RoomPerfect makes it my favorite regardless. I have used a MiniDSP DDRC-22D and while it's not as good as RoomPerfect is still is very good. Only the McIntosh MX151 and DDRC-22D are still in my possession.
My Likes
The speakers are very neutral in tonality. In the midrange it sounds very similar to the Accuton Cell midrange, very clear and accurate. The tweeter was as good as the Dynaudio Esotar2 which is not surprising as both are top tier and fabric domed. Where the difference is most heard is in the bass and midbass especially. Beethoven fills the room like nothing else I have ever heard and these speakers can bring it all the way down to 20-25hz with open baffle bass. Also, the midbass especially good as the two 15 inch woofers have a 21" surface area per speaker. I have never heard a 6-8" woofer play midbass like the Jamo's can. The midbass advantage is most heard in classical or movies which actually have drums, such as Netflix's Kate when Taiko drums are playing.
What I wish were different
The speakers require a lot of space which I cannot give them especially when I move into my next home. I have found my listening habits to be mainly 80/20 in favor of home theater which has caused to to reevaluate why I have such expensive stuff. I don't listen to Beethoven much and when my habits are watching Seal Team and the occasional video game. Which is why my Accuton and Jamo's are in the trading post right now.
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Thanks so much for the detailed explanations of your audio journey! I know firsthand how OB speakers can be finicky (i.e. demanding) of high-performance electronics and especially the room setup. I have experimented extensively with placement, absorption and dispersion over the last 5 years or so beginning with my beloved Spatial M3 Turbos, and in the last year with my DIY Lii Audio F15 OB speakers. You've got truly high-end gear and I'm somewhat sad to read that you will go "down-range" in your new home because of room size constraints and the shift to Home Theater. We all do what we need to do for a happy home and I think you'll find folks here totally supportive - perhaps even a well-heeled buyer! Best wishes for you impending changes.
Sincerely,
Jim kd4ylq
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Nice setup @Poultrygeist !
I'm thinking on something "just" similar, maybe with one W15 and a Fast8
Do you care to share if you F15 is the Lii Audio version, or the Lii Song version? Just reading now about that war and I'm not sure what to expect about the Lii Song ones (that would be the ones I can get here)
Maybe my best open baffles so far: Lowther, F-15, and Eminence Alpha
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242491)
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My F-15's are the Lii Audio version shipped from their California warehouse. Ordered on 2/21/22 and received two months later. Delayed from China as the company changed over to an improved motor. Lii Audio even sent me a free pair of their 8" drivers to make up for the delay. A great wide band driver and IMO almost the equal of the 12 inch alnico Zenith 49CZ 802/852.
But the hidden gems of wide band drivers are the vintage alnico's pulled from tube consoles and organs. You can see a pair face down in my rack ( also Zenith branded ) which look and sound like larger versions of the amazing Coral Holey Baskets. The CHB's were usually found in TOTL Sony tube reel to reels.
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Here are the wonderful Zenith alnico 8's ( big brothers of the Coral Holey Baskets ) in open baffles. There's something beguiling in the sweet tone of the vintage alnico's that stand out from all the others. Perhaps it's because they were voiced to perform their best when paired with flea watt tube amps.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253193)
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And here are the Coral Holey Baskets in open baffles. Everything Mr Glow-in-the-dark says about them in his blog are spot on.
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/coralholey.html
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253194)
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Thank you very much.
Unfortunately I'll have to go with what I can find in today's market within my budget, so old school are out of question for me.
I'll keep reading about what others say about Lii Song's drivers (I still have some months in front before making anything) and decide if they are as good as Lii Audio originals or if I have to change route on the brand to use.
Sorry to hijack threat.
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Thank you very much.
Unfortunately I'll have to go with what I can find in today's market within my budget, so old school are out of question for me.
I'll keep reading about what others say about Lii Song's drivers (I still have some months in front before making anything) and decide if they are as good as Lii Audio originals or if I have to change route on the brand to use.
Sorry to hijack threat.
Lii Audio and Lii Song appear to be one in the same. It's just a name change as they didn't copyright their original name.
https://www.lii-audio.com
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Lii Audio and Lii Song appear to be one in the same. It's just a name change as they didn't copyright their original name.
https://www.lii-audio.com
I've got worried after reading an extensive thread on the subject at diyAudio forum, so... good to know :wink:
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Lii Liionidas Extreme in the house and sounding rather good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253350)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256877)
(http://)
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Open/No baffle .... EMS LB12 fullrange speaker hanged on frame
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257111)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257113)
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[img]https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260412[/i
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260412)
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My first foray into O.B., a good friend let me borrow his Spatial M4 Triode Master so I can see how they would work in my space. So far, these are great imaging and easy flowing 🤙🏽
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261204)
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You are in good company Look at my m4 tm’s
Have had them for 4 years fantastic!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261216)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261217)
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I have a pair of Rythmik FM8s subs with GR Research Super Minis. Here are a couple videos for proof of concept. Subs have 4 hours, Minis about 30. Crossover is 200 hz. Still a lot of work to get things right, but a start. Room in new house is challenging, but a miracle to even have the system there, ha. I needed the absolute minimalistic speaker to pass the waf test. This was as small as I was willing to go. Acoustic foam has yet to be put on the front baffle.
I have since raised the subs 10" off the ground with the funny things on the sides. They are Specially Tuned Harmonic Resonators that create an out of phase signal to cancel out box resonances. :wink: They also just happen to be fantastic grab handles to move the speakers to their listening positions. :wink:
Rickie Lee. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTRByZtq7K0
Chinese https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGLOLSkE6po
Rocket Ronny
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261133)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261134)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261135)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261136)
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RockaDaddy. The main question I always have about the Pure Audio Project MTM speakers is how is the image height? Seems to me the main driver is only, or less than, 30" high from my best guess. I know for me in a normal listening chair it would have to be at least 36" for a realistic sound stage. Can you say what those cost?
Rocket Ronny
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I'm currently breaking in a pair of Lii Fast 15s, with the intention to set them up in the PAP style OB, with Beta 15a drivers as the dual woofers. Have tried them at different heights, to equate MTM and TMM. I had the same concern, and with these drivers and my room, I'm going with the TMM setup. Although with the PAP style, it's easy to change the configuration.
That issue is brought up in this thread on another forum (among other things):
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/pap-trio-15-and-diy-discussion.6197/ (https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/pap-trio-15-and-diy-discussion.6197/)
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@Rocket_Ronny ...
The main question I always have about the Pure Audio Project MTM speakers is how is the image height?
Mine do not seem to project height-wise exceptionally well when sitting within an equilateral triangle. I have Gaia III footers so able to rake them back a bit for a believable (when seated) height projection of sound. Height limitation disappears when sitting further back from them.
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RockaDaddy. Thanks for sharing. If I owned those, I would raise them 10" or so. Doing that, I would think it a hard speaker to beat.
Rocket Ronny
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Garage with AV123 X Statik and Lii Fast 15
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261288)