[88man]

Here are my DIY speakers that I've been using with my Odyssey Dual Mono Stratos and Tempest Extreme. 2016 marks the 10th anniversary using Odyssey components! It's a match made in heaven. The speakers are the Geers eVe II with a slightly modified crossover. The drivers are all Scan-Speak: 8in 21W/8555-01 woofer, 6.5in 18W/8545-00 mid, D2904/98000 tweeter. The synergy from the carbon/paper Scan'Speak speaker cones sounds great with the Odyssey components in providing a balanced, smooth, detailed, rich, and coherent sound. The imaging is wide, deep, and holographic, without losing clarity nor focus. It does well with all program material in resolving detail, but also hearing the separation of instruments in complex music. I am bi-amping the mid/tweeter cab with the Odysseys, and powering the bass cab with a Behringer 450W/ch amp. Amp selection is not critical as the crossover is at 200Hz. The midrange clarity, detail, and dynamic contrasts are excellent with this setup.

After trying parallel and series fed crossovers, to my ears, the series fed crossover provides more direct immediacy making vocals quite magical. The crossover points are 200Hz and 2.4kHz, and configured as a 2.5-way. I am using Mundorf Supremes for all caps, and Mundorf L200 Coils. However neutral, Mundorfs with paper cones sound very open, extended, detailed, and with a hint of richness. I am most pleased with the separation of instruments in complex music - the string section sound like a collection of violins as opposed to a smeared hash of violins as heard on lesser caps. Mundorf Supremes take 100-200hrs to fully break in, so you have to be patient. Advice from the the venerable Tony Gee, the small 0.01uF Vishay Roderstein MKP1837 bypass cap helps to create a more concert hall type sound and adds noticeable smoothness and refinement. The Scan-Speak 18W mid excels in the midrange, and the 98000 tweeter is one of the best aluminum domes available. Any weaknesses?... If I had to nit pick, it's the baffle-step loss. As with all narrow style front baffles, you get a slight dip @350Hz, and slight peak at 700-900Hz.

Since my room is 25'x23' with a 13' vaulted ceiling, and placing them toward the middle of one wall, I'm not benefiting from any room gain here. So, I'm using a stereo pair of TC Sounds Epic 12in subwoofers to get more impact at the bottom octave. In the photo, the subs are stacked for testing purposes, but in normal use they are spaced wider than the speakers. I am powering the subs with a Behringer iNuke 6000DSP amp crossed at 60Hz @ 24dB/oct. However, in a medium sized room, you might not need subs as these speakers could benefit from room gain. Placement relative to corners is key to any speaker system.

I've lightly stuffed the port on both cabs to make for aperiodic tuning. Both cabs are lined with vibration damping sheets and felt to control internal reflections. Acoustimass was added in select areas. The bass cab is 43L and mid cab is 16L. 1in MDF was used (2in for the front) with cherry veneer. 14 coats of Arm-R-Seal Oil + Poly was applied. After 4 years, the color has darkened to a beautiful amber color.

Future Project: I'm almost finished with another custom DIY speaker project: 90L, 13in 3-way for my large room using latest drivers: 13in Visaton TIW-300 woofer, 6.5" Scan-Speak 18U/8741T00, and D3004/660000 tweeter. The mid/tweeter crossover is series fed, with no compromise 12AWG wax foil coils, and Mundorf Supreme Silver Oil + Audyn Reference caps, and Mundorf M-Resistors. The crossover points are 170Hz and 2.1kHz. I've made a wider M/T cab to lower the baffle step frequency this time. It's looking good... I'll share it with you once I've finished the veneering.

[mresseguie]

Hello, 88man.

Your speakers look great! I imagine they must sound great as well.

Interestingly, your pair is the second pair (of Geers eVe II) I've run across just this week. Prior to this week, I hadn't even known they existed.  Another AC member has tem in his gallery/systems and it popped up for viewing a couple days ago. Of course, I've already forgotten who it was. 

You mentioned the Mundorf Supremes and the Mundorf Supreme Silver Oil caps in your future project. I'm curious what your impressions are of the different sounds, and I wonder if you've heard the Mundorf Silver/Gold Oil caps (and any impressions you may have).

Thank you for posting about your speakers, and for providing pictures!

Michael

[88man]

Many thanks, Michael for the compliments. The smooth, warm nature of the Odyssey components balances well with the open, detailed, dynamic nature of the Mundorf Supremes. The Vishay Roderstein MKP1837 bypass cap smoothens out any grain from the edges with this cap. These attributes in combination with the Scan-Speak paper cones seem to add an element of "sophistication," i.e. just the right hint of richness in harmonic content. Mundorf Supremes offer the best value for the money in full range applications because they don't favor any part of the spectrum from bass to high treble. They are an excellent start and end point for many systems and upgrades from simple to complex networks.

As you move up the Mundorf Supreme range, like the Silver Oil, Silver Gold, and Silver Gold Oil, so does the resolution, HF extension, micro-detail, dimensionality, and richness. They're better suited for mid and tweeter applications, and not so strong in "full range" applications. The Silver Oil is the exception as it does well across the frequency gamut.

The Silver Oil is my favorite in the series because it's character is lush, liquid, richer in harmonics, more depth, and is very smooth, without any hint of grain or sacrificing any detail. Excellent throughout the range bass, mids, and high treble. I find the midrange quite magical with this cap as it's more liquid, smoother, and better defined than the Supreme.

The Silver Gold is also excellent, very open, very detailed, very revealing, but not as coherent the S.O. or S.G.O. Unless your source is perfect, S.G. can sound lean toward the brighter side of neutral. For digital sources it's not my first choice, unless your system needs HF infusion.

The Silver Gold Oil is a sonic hybrid of the Silver Oil + Silver Gold combining their best characteristics. Superb detail, resolution, richness, smoothness, liquidity, extension, are all there in spades. Furthermore, the S.G.O. adds a tad more air, depth, micro-detailing, and dimensionality as it is top-of-the-line.

Synergy of components, speaker cone and voice coil composition, goes a long way in voicing speakers. A/B testing with many recordings (both good and bad) are the only way to voice a speaker. Like voicing a piano or any instrument, ultimately, it's subjective, as it's a matter of taste at the end. Good Luck!

[TAULISA]

Yours must be sounding great !
Attached are mine since 2003 which took one year to have them assembled !

[88man]

Very nice, Taulisa! The 99000 is very revealing and projects very well due to its wave guide design. It was the best tweeter when it was introduced in 1995. The 18W/8545 continues to remain a gem since 1980. They were going to discontinue the -00 version and replace it with the -01 improved version. So I bought an extra pair of -00 and sealed it in vacuum bags. As it turns out, the TS parameters are so close that the -00 and -01 versions are interchangeable. The legacy continues...

Since I had a Rike Audio S-Cap, I'm testing it out for synergy. Most likely, I'll substitute it with the Mundorf Silver Oil + Audyn Reference for the tweeter cap. The large value midrange cap (upper right) is 70% Mundorf Evo Oil + 30% Jantzen Superior Z. Combining the detailed, airy top end of the Evos with the spaciousness and neutrality of the Zs forms a rich and spacious midrange. The resistors are Jantzen Superes. Once fully voiced, I'll change them to Mundorf M-Resist, and add bypass caps in critical areas.

[mresseguie]

88man,

I've got a couple questions for you if you don't mind.

In your post in this thread you stated, "After trying parallel and series fed crossovers, to my ears, the series fed crossover provides more direct immediacy making vocals quite magical. The crossover points are 200Hz and 2.4kHz, and configured as a 2.5-way."

My first question is, "Are there any issues or problems that crop up in a 2.5-way because the two woofers are different sizes?" I ask due a lack of experience in designing my own speakers, but I have spent a lot of time (too much, perhaps?) researching speaker designs.

My second question is, "How does one decide where to make the lower crossover point?" I have seen crossover points anywhere from 80Hz up to 250Hz for speakers similar to yours . Is part of it personal preference, or is it all about the different speakers' capabilities?

Thanks for any insights/knowledge you can impart. 

Michael

[88man]

mresseguie,

"After trying parallel and series fed crossovers, to my ears, the series fed crossover provides more direct immediacy making vocals quite magical. The crossover points are 200Hz and 2.4kHz, and configured as a 2.5-way."
Q: Are there any issues or problems that crop up in a 2.5-way because the two woofers are different sizes?
A: No issues because the 6.5in and 8in drivers have separate cabs and different crossovers. The 2.5-way crossover yields a gentle roll off in 6.5in midrange where the 8in woofer takes over from there. The mid/tweeter are fed with a series network. The 8in cab acts more like a sub as it's fed by an independent 2nd order parallel network. I can power it with a single amp or biamp - Odysseys for the M/T cab, and a Class AB or D for B cab. Set levels by ear or frequency sweep with a SPL meter.

Q: How does one decide where to make the lower crossover point? I have seen crossover points anywhere from 80Hz up to 250Hz for speakers similar to yours . Is part of it personal preference, or is it all about the different speakers' capabilities?...
A: Start with an electronic crossover. Listen by varying high and low cut off frequency ranges and slopes for each driver. A 5in driver begins to sound lean ~220Hz, a 6.5in driver begins to sound lean below 150Hz, So 150 - 200Hz is a good Fc (cut-off frequency). One can measure the SPL too. The high Fc is based is based on listening - cone beaming, dispersion characteristics. Beaming is analogous to cupping your hands and listening for that shut-in sound. Deep mid cones have lower Fc, shallower cones have higher Fc for a given size.

[88man]

As promised, here are the finished speakers. I use the Odyssey Tempest Extreme and Stratos Dual Mono for the top mid/tweeter cab. The 13" bass cab is powered by a Behringer Class AB amp 450W/ch with no worries about nasty back EMF from the bass driver. I could power the entire system with a single Odyssey amp too as an 8-ohm load.
It took 200 hours of break in for the entire system to reach maturity. These 13in. 3-ways are the closest thing to a visceral live performance, surpassing anything I've witnessed in a home setting! Compared to my first set of speakers, that employ Scan-Speak Classic 8-7-1 drivers, these larger speakers produce a wider frequency response with deeper and wider imaging that extends beyond the speakers. The higher dynamic range yields more realism, impact, and lower distortion at high volume. The level of transparency allows for better detail, clarity, openness, and finer nuances. The soundstage is more holographic and 3-D.
I've also completed a pair of Scan-Speak 32W/4878T00 13" stereo subs that sound amazing. Expensive, but after my TC Sounds Epic 12" turned out to be junk, the SS were a drop-in replacement to the finished sub enclosures and exceed the TC subs.

SPECIFICATONS:
3-way: 13" Visaton TIW 300 bass driver, 6.5" Scan-Speak 18U/8741T00 Illuminator midrange, 1" Scan-Speak D3004/66000 tweeter.
Sensistivity:  86 dB/W/m
Crossover:  3-way. 170Hz, 2.1kHz. 12dB/oct. Midrange/Tweeter: Series network. Woofer: Parellel network
Connectivity: Bi-Amp or Bi-Wire
Dimensions: 47"x15.25"x18.5"

[mresseguie]

Good job, 88man. 

Enjoy!

Michael

[klaus@odyssey]

This is very, very good !!!!
Congratulations, it is impressive.............

[martinr]

Great Job...I'm sure it sounds fantastic...I plan on doing a bi amp with a SET for the top cabinets and Odyssey for the bass cabs of my VR-4s one day.  I've heard this in a similar configuration and it sounds great as well

[Dan998]

These DIY speakers look awesome. 

[Dieterle Tool]

As promised, here are the finished speakers. I use the Odyssey Tempest Extreme and Stratos Dual Mono for the top mid/tweeter cab. The 13" bass cab is powered by a Behringer Class AB amp 450W/ch with no worries about nasty back EMF from the bass driver. I could power the entire system with a single Odyssey amp too as an 8-ohm load.
It took 200 hours of break in for the entire system to reach maturity. These 13in. 3-ways are the closest thing to a visceral live performance, surpassing anything I've witnessed in a home setting! Compared to my first set of speakers, that employ Scan-Speak Classic 8-7-1 drivers, these larger speakers produce a wider frequency response with deeper and wider imaging that extends beyond the speakers. The higher dynamic range yields more realism, impact, and lower distortion at high volume. The level of transparency allows for better detail, clarity, openness, and finer nuances. The soundstage is more holographic and 3-D.
I've also completed a pair of Scan-Speak 32W/4878T00 13" stereo subs that sound amazing. Expensive, but after my TC Sounds Epic 12" turned out to be junk, the SS were a drop-in replacement to the finished sub enclosures and exceed the TC subs.

SPECIFICATONS:
3-way: 13" Visaton TIW 300 bass driver, 6.5" Scan-Speak 18U/8741T00 Illuminator midrange, 1" Scan-Speak D3004/66000 tweeter.
Sensistivity:  86 dB/W/m
Crossover:  3-way. 170Hz, 2.1kHz. 12dB/oct. Midrange/Tweeter: Series network. Woofer: Parellel network
Connectivity: Bi-Amp or Bi-Wire
Dimensions: 47"x15.25"x18.5"

 

[Dan998]

Who made the speaker cabinets.  They look really nice.

[Sonny]

Looks like the GeerS eVe II!

[Sonny]

[88man]

Who made the speaker cabinets.  They look really nice.

Hi Dan998, I'm a newbie to woodworking. I made the cabinets using Festool plunge cut rail saw for accurate cuts to 1/32". I used the Festool Domino Joiner to align the panels perfectly. Cherry veneer received 2 coats of shellac, followed by 15 coats of Oil & Polyurethane Topcoat wet sanded with 400 grit in between coats. Off and on, (mostly off), it took a year to complete, and voice the speakers.

Sonny, the 8-7-1 speaker is indeed a GeerS eVe II iwith a slightly modified crossover using all Mundorf L200 coils and Supreme Caps with MKP1837 capacitor bypasses. That was the first speaker I ever made - can never get rid of it. It's a very coherent sounding speaker, with good balance of warmth and detail. It's now in a smaller room. You have a very nice set up! 

Sorry for the late responses, I thought the thread was put to rest. 

[Dan998]

88man, those Oak cabinets look amazing.
You do a great job of building speaker cabinets.