Upgrading to Vision phono !

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missouricatman

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Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #40 on: 30 Jul 2014, 05:55 pm »
This is a bit off-topic, since it relates to a feature of the Insight + other than the phono stage, but since I opted for the preamp over the stand-alone phono stage, thought it made sense to actually hook something up to one of those other inputs.

So, you remember those things called cassettes?  If you're like me, you probably put a fair amount of money into a good deck for your car, and had more than one of those little cases to carry your music with you when you went on a road trip.  If you're like me, today you still check out used cassettes because there might be a title you want that you've never come across on CD or vinyl.

Like the digitally remastered Tony Bennett/Bill Evans album.

It was just for little finds like this that I picked up a nice, mint Denon DRM-800.  I'm sure there are better decks out there, but I've never heard 'em.

So how does the Insight + handle a decent cassette source?  Well very nicely, if you ask me. 

I started out with Lyle Lovett - Pontiac and the moment the music came on I thought, I don't care how much crap I get for playing cassettes, I'm going to be playing a lot more of them from now on.

As for Bennett with Evans, it's wonderful and a little sad at the same time.  If you haven't heard Tony Bennett from back then you're really missing something.  As for Bill Evans, knowing it wouldn't be that long until we lost him, it's a little hard to listen to.  Regardless of his aversion to working with vocalists, he did it very well.  A nice one to be in my collection - regardless of the format.

So another plus for the Insight +.

missouricatman

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Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #41 on: 3 Aug 2014, 12:06 am »
Tipatina and Minn Mark - since you both mentioned Marsalis' Stardust, I decided to use it as a test of some modified cables I made today by melting my thumb with a soldering iron.  I put together a video with the track that includes a couple of spectrographs I pulled from the Audacity file post ClickRepair. Unfortunately I uploaded it before I remembered that the way ClickRepair works is to replace what it considers to be damage with low-level noise well above 20kHz, which is pretty much what you see in the 30k-40k range.  So to be fair, I'm including in this post a spectrograph of the first 1:30 taken from the master file prior to ClickRepair.  Wish I'd remembered . . . I would have forgone it.

Comments, however horribly harsh, are encouraged.  The file is set to private.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMp9ocMeu18




Minn Mark

Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #42 on: 3 Aug 2014, 11:22 am »
The file sounds fine via my Mac. Don't have a way to listen to this through my audio system, though.

 What are your impressions of your modded cables via the Insight+Vision?  Is it easier to tell differences with the more revealing pre-amp?

Please post more of your impressions of the Vision phono. You got the adjustable version (MM/MC), right?  Have you tried altering the settings?   What settings are you using?

Thanks in advance.

Mark

missouricatman

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Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #43 on: 3 Aug 2014, 01:58 pm »
Morning Mark,

In your honor, I suppose, I'm listening to Michael Hedges - Watching My Life Go By, while watching a thunderstorm roll past.  George Cromarty - Wind In The Heather will be next.

Yes, I got the adjustable version of the Vision phono stage.  I let Frank know I was using a Shure V15 III and did check Shure's specs to be certain it didn't require any special setup, so it's set the way Frank had it set and I'm not inclined to play with it for the time being.

I asked for the MM/MC adjustable version because I didn't want to limit myself in the future.  It may be some time before I move to a turntable and arm setup where I could realize the benefits of a moving coil cartridge, but when I do, I'm quite certain the preamp will be more than up to it. I know at this point I'm not really able to hear it fully, but as I've said, even in my meager setup, the improvements have been pretty impressive.

About those cables I modded.  Well it would be nice to have a fully balanced system, but I don't.  The cables had nothing to do with my normal listening setup, just my recording. 

The Apogee Duet 2 is really designed for balanced inputs, so while in software you can make some input adjustments, you still need unbalanced RCA to balanced XLR cables (or an isolation transformer box) to get in the thing.  I've been fairly successful with a 2' pair of cables advertised as able to achieve the goal - and to work in reverse just as well - but as I researched how this "last resort" way of connecting unbalanced to balanced works, I came to understand the best way to wire the cables wouldn't allow for "reverse." Several sources said the shield should be grounded on the RCA end, but left loose on the XLR end, so it wouldn't be able to work as an RF antenna.  So I had fun re-doing the XLR end.

I try very hard not to claim to hear differences I know I want to hear, so verdict is out on whether I really hear the difference in the cables.  I THINK I do, and what I THINK I hear is borne out on the charts I've been pulling.  First, it did drop the signal strength somewhat, which tells me I could benefit from a better set of cables, which is my plan.  I just wanted to confirm the pinout before ordering.  Second, the high end seems to have opened up a hair.  Third, it does look as though I reduced low-level RF.  Hey, I'm just happy that they work at least as well as before I cut into 'em!

A word about cable selection.  I'm not one for exotic, expensive cables, but having worked in TV & radio I do know there are cables that can do the job well, cables that are designed only for certain loads, and there are junk cables.  Working with the recording cables yesterday reinforced that I also need to get a decent set to go between preamp and amp.  I say that because when I chart the noise floor downstream of the preamp, I see a representation that includes the RIAA curve.  I see changes in the curve after modding my recording cables, so I'm reminded that all that the Insight + EC is putting out may not be getting to the amp either.  Blue Jeans Cable made me a decent set that I use between the turntable and the Insight + so I'm inclined to have Wayne make sets for all the other components.

As for my overall impression of the Vision phono stage, it, too, continues to improve. Whether I'm listing to very quiet, soothing music in the morning, or putting on some 80's synth' rock in the afternoon, It just delivers so much more than the Sansui did.  I think the most pleasant surprise has been how full things seem to be at very low listening levels - which is how I run things pretty much every morning. 

You know, if you have the right music on during a nice rain, getting your music balanced with the sounds of nature is a pretty pleasant experience.

Jim


missouricatman

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Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #44 on: 3 Aug 2014, 11:47 pm »
I've finalized the location for the Insight + EC.  2" thick batts, covered in black cloth provide some isolation for both the Insight and turntable.  Perhaps more importantly, wires are now hidden - a wife factor (well I appreciate it too).  And hats off to my wife, Ellen, who actually made the batts!



tipatina

Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #45 on: 12 Aug 2014, 01:58 am »
I received my T8+ with new MM phono stage Friday and have listened seriously only about an hour secondary to having to work over the weekend. I did listen to "Stardust" from Hot House Flowers since we have discussed it in this thread and as I really like that cover it is very familiar. Listening with the Vision I hear less of a "wall of sound" and more individual voices of instruments and groups of instruments in the countermelodies and call and response built into the arrangement. I also have very much enjoyed listening to Joanne Brackeen's version of "Stardust", old Heath Brothers LPs and The Notting Hillbillies. Just on the basis of the ear test in my listening room with my system (described in an earlier post on this thread), I am judging this a cost effective upgrade.

missouricatman

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A Sheffield Lab Direct-To-Disk through the Vision!
« Reply #46 on: 4 Oct 2014, 12:35 am »
OK, I know this thread's old, but it wasn't until just today I put something on my old turntable that really gave me an idea of what a huge upgrade the Vision is for me.  I picked up a reasonable copy of Lincoln Mayorga & Distinguished Colleagues Volume III.  If you're not familiar with it, this is a Sheffield Lab Direct-To-Disk.  Now I have a few DTD's but, this one - even at a pretty low level I almost fell out of the chair! Talk about attack, I almost had one, no kidding.  Percussion hit so hard I mistakenly thought something had fallen off the mantel.

And if you know anything about the rest of my gear, you know overall it's pretty mundane, so if the vision is doing this now, well one day maybe I'll REALLY find out how good it is when I make some very overdue upgrades in other areas.

Thanks Frank, and a belated Happy Birthday!

Minn Mark

Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #47 on: 31 Oct 2014, 06:23 pm »
So...it's getting close to a year I've been living with my upgraded Insight+ preamp with the Vision phono (MM) section. And...I'm still loving it. Very quiet, nice wide dynamic range, pure tonality and truthful to the recording, therefore very revealing. Seems a nice combination with VPI Classic 1 and Sumiko Blackbird. Acoustic groups (Old Crow Medicine Show's Remedy) guitar (Leo Kottke), jazz (Blue Note), rock (AC/DC), vocals (Lorna Hunt to Manhattan Xfer to Tom Waits); there isn't a genre I listen to that the Vision phono is untruthful to. Nice coherent sounstage with accurate presentations. On recordings with reverb it is very truthful to the room sounds or studio reverb (Bill Evans' Waltz for Debby and Poco's Crazy Eyes).  Fabulous value for the money. I smile with every album on the turntable. Thanks Frank.

Happy Halloween !

Mark

 

missouricatman

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Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #48 on: 31 Oct 2014, 06:26 pm »
Happy Halloween to you too.  For me it's a bit more than that.  25th wedding anniversary!

avahifi

Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #49 on: 31 Oct 2014, 10:37 pm »
Yes indeed!  Those old Sheffield Lab Direct-To-Disk records will give you system breaking dynamics with our Vision phono preamplifier.

It makes CD sound pretty nambey pambey.

Frank

missouricatman

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Re: Upgrading to Vision phono !
« Reply #50 on: 31 Oct 2014, 11:09 pm »
Very true, Frank.  I've also discovered that there are records cut hot enough that I've had to turn down the Insight + to keep from over driving the amp.  Initially I ran it at about 1-2 o'clock, but found for me the sweet spot's more like 10 o'clock.  As you said, the Insight + has power to spare.  Absolutely the strongest component in my system.